Spygate

[CommissarSpartacus]

Since it appears obvious that most people don't know their asses from a hole in the ground when it comes to "Spygate" lets see if you guys have the courage to answer some questions.

First of all, is looking at the other team's sideline against the rules?

If an assistant coach comes to you as the HC and says "Coach, I've been watching the other team's DC and I've noticed that everytime he runs his hand trough his hair, it's a 2one, and when he drinks some gatoraid, it's man to man and when he scratches his ass, it's a blit2. Do you want me to tell our coaches and qb?", would you say...

1. "Great job son, we'll keep an eye on it", or....

2. "No, don't tell them and forget what you saw. It's against the intent of the rules!"?

[mightysimi]

I vote for 1. There is a difference between doing it during the game by eye then reviewing the signals after the fact on video including the down and distance and using that knowledge for the next games.

[harmonkoz]

Since it appears obvious that most people don't know their asses from a hole in the ground when it comes to "Spygate" lets see if you guys have the courage to answer some questions.

First of all, is looking at the other team's sideline against the rules?

If an assistant coach comes to you as the HC and says "Coach, I've been watching the other team's DC and I've noticed that everytime he runs his hand trough his hair, it's a 2one, and when he drinks some gatoraid, it's man to man and when he scratches his ass, it's a blit2. Do you want me to tell our coaches and qb?", would you say...

1. "Great job son, we'll keep an eye on it", or....

2. "No, don't tell them and forget what you saw. It's against the intent of the rules!"?

3. Forget what you saw, we don't cheat.


And the last word, sort of, from Don Shula.
This comes from Jim Steeg, who for years ran the Super Bowl and big NFL events:“Back in the seventies, the Dolphins were going to play the Raiders in Oakland. They practiced at the Oakland Coliseum on Saturday, and in the locker room Larry Csonka found laying there the Raiders’ game plan for the next day’s game. He gave it to [Dolphins offensive line coach] Monte Clark to give to Don Shula, which Monte did.“The next day the Dolphins got beat by the Raiders. Csonka went to Monte and asked, ‘How did we lose? We had their game plan.’
“Monte’s response: ‘I gave it to Don and he threw it in the trash. He said, ‘We do not cheat!’ ”

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/26/super-bowl-49-patriots-seahawks-bill-vinovich-ref/3/

[CommissarSpartacus]

I vote for 1. There is a difference between doing it during the game by eye then reviewing the signals after the fact on video including the down and distance and using that knowledge for the next games.

So, "stealing" signs is okay as long as you don't use a video camera? How about a still camera? Pen and paper?

[Joe Fo Sho]

So, "stealing" signs is okay as long as you don't use a video camera? How about a still camera? Pen and paper?

Pretty sure pen and paper would be legal. I think they're rules against electronic devices on the sideline that are not provided by the NFL.

[CommissarSpartacus]

3. Forget what you saw, we don't cheat.


So why not just let them hold up signs saying 2one, man to man, or blit2 and just make it against the rules for anyone on the opposing team to look at them?

[Pinkerton Security]

Do you dream of Tom Brady's schlong in your mouth each night or you just really enjoy defending people who get caught cheating?

[mightysimi]

So, "stealing" signs is okay as long as you don't use a video camera? How about a still camera? Pen and paper?

Yes stealing signs has always been a part of every sport. As long as it's done on the field without electronic aid, I have no problem with it.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Pretty sure pen and paper would be legal. I think they're rules against electronic devices on the sideline that are not provided by the NFL.

What's the difference? Pen and paper and video cameras are both "technology", ie recording devices.

What's the difference?

And when the Pats started doing this, video cameras had already been aroound for 20 years and using them weren't against the rules.

They only became against the rules when the other teams found out about it when Mangini, who had benefitted from it, complained to Goodell AFTER he became the Jets HC.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Yes stealing signs has always been a part of every sport. As long as it's done on the field without electronic aid, I have no problem with it.

Video cameras are just recording devices.

They can't do your thinking for you. It just gives you a data base.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Do you dream of Tom Brady's schlong in your mouth each night or you just really enjoy defending people who get caught cheating?

Football fans...

:rofl:

[Joe Fo Sho]

What's the difference? Pen and paper and video cameras are both "technology", ie recording devices.

What's the difference?

If there's no difference, why did New England use them?


And when the Pats started doing this, video cameras had already been aroound for 20 years and using them weren't against the rules.

My understanding was the placement of the cameras was illegal. You can film the 'all-22' view, but there are zoom and camera placement restrictions.


They only became against the rules when the other teams found out about it when Mangini, who had benefitted from it, complained to Goodell AFTER he became the Jets HC.

I'm not sure this is true. Link?

[harmonkoz]

Do you dream of Tom Brady's schlong in your mouth each night or you just really enjoy defending people who get caught cheating?

He's a dreamer.

[CommissarSpartacus]

If there's no difference, why did New England use them?



My understanding was the placement of the cameras was illegal. You can film the 'all-22' view, but there are zoom and camera placement restrictions.



I'm not sure this is true. Link?

1. Because it was convenient. Modern era and all that...

2. The placements of cameras was part of the rule put in place to thwart what the pats had been doing for years.

3. It's true. Trust me or not, but I'm not going to look for a link.

Mangini, the pat's DC, was offered the HC job with the Jets. Belichek objected, as his position was ALWAYS that he would support any of his staff taking an HC job IN ANOTHER DIVISION, which is entirely reasonable.

Mangini took it anyway and then went to the commissioner to tell trade secrets.

That's how it started and it's why belichek hates Mangini, who was a protoge of Bill's...

Belichek MADE Mangini's career, then Mangini stabbed him in the back.

[Joe Fo Sho]

1. Because it was convenient. Modern era and all that...

Convenience and ease of use is a distinct advantage and against the rules. They call that cheating, even on the playground.


2. The placements of cameras was part of the rule put in place to thwart what the pats had been doing for years.

3. It's true. Trust me or not, but I'm not going to look for a link.

If you're not going to support your argument, why would anyone believe it?

[Pinkerton Security]

1. Because it was convenient. Modern era and all that...

2. The placements of cameras was part of the rule put in place to thwart what the pats had been doing for years.

3. It's true. Trust me or not, but I'm not going to look for a link.

Mangini, the pat's DC, was offered the HC job with the Jets. Belichek objected, as his position was ALWAYS that he would support any of his staff taking an HC job IN ANOTHER DIVISION, which is entirely reasonable.

Mangini took it anyway and then went to the commissioner to tell trade secrets.

That's how it started and it's why belichek hates Mangini, who was a protoge of Bill's...

Belichek MADE Mangini's career, then Mangini stabbed him in the back.

So your argument is that they cheated because it was convenient? and then you won't bother to back your points up, so you refer to the "TRUST ME" cop-out?

The Pats were punished for cheating and spying on opponents, right? So why are you defending them? The NFL ruled that they broke the rules, so I don't see where your argument lies. "They only cheated because it was easy!"

[DynaPaul]

Big difference between noticing it realtime and videotaping it for reverse engineering later.

[EricStratton]

It's against the rules because the NFL has a rule against it. Prior to the Pats getting banged for it a memo went around the league reminding teams that there was a rule against it and the Patriots did it anyway.

With QB's being able to hear the coach until 15 seconds remain on the play clock having a recorded version of the hand signals (and from the original spygate story the video was analyzed during the game itself, not to use another week) it would allow the coach to tell the QB exactly what to expect as it was happening.

The NFL determined that was not allowed just like they currently say those tablets can't show video, only still pictures and the Patriots got caught ignoring that

It's really that simple.

[Lucidvizion]

It doesn't have to be against the rules to be wrong. That's what people without integrity have trouble understanding.

The game is meant to be played on the field, not through some meta game on the sidelines or through altering equipment. Doing things outside of the intent of the game is an implicit rule violation.

The Pats could have gone to the league and asked for permission if they thought they were in a gray area. Not doing so was underhanded and meant to give a one-sided advantage (i.e. they weren't just opting for modern conveniences).

[coastal]

More

:spam:

[better days]

LMAO at Spartacus TRYING to defend the CHEATERS.

FAIL!

[trapezeus]

the original poster is an idiot. the premise is not accurate. if you put it on tape and have a team of people breaking down the exact signal when everyone else has been told to not do it like that, it gives you and edge. and if didn't, why would you do it?

grow up spartacus. your team cheats. i know for simpleton's it's hard to understand.

[tomz]

To burst your apologist bubble, the Cheats were videoing closed practices. There are comments from players from the Rams ( I believe) that indicated that the Cheatriots knew about and planned for plays that we're only put in during Super Bowl week and not previously used the entire season.

big difference between what you imply (every team uses tape) and what they did.

[feldspar]

If you knowingly and willingly break an established rule in a game, that's called cheating. There are no two ways about it. You can't pick and choose which rules "make sense" to you. If you knew it was against the rules and did it anyway, there is a reason for it, and that's to gain a competitive advantage illegally. If you do all these things with your eyes wide open, then DO NOT cry about being perceived in an unfair light, because you MORE than have that coming.

That's about it.

[GvilleBills]

I certain that if the Pats** had illegally taped Kelly Holcomb, Shiva would be pissed.

[justasportsfan]

Since it appears obvious that most people don't know their asses from a hole in the ground when it comes to "Spygate" lets see if you guys have the courage to answer some questions.

First of all, is looking at the other team's sideline against the rules?


Go argue with the league. They fined them and BB didn't oppose it. End of story.

[WagonCircler]

What's the difference? Pen and paper and video cameras are both "technology", ie recording devices..

And with that, another thread jumped the shark.

Hey, you're "in the film industry". Remember when Francis Ford Coppola had to be talked out of making the Godfather a series of sketches on legal pads, rather than a motion picture?

Yeah. Nobody does.

[delectrolux]

Belichick's defense was that he misinterpreted the rule and that video cameras were allowed as long as the tape was not used in that game. This is even though the NFL sent out the memo that said

"videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

I guess there's a slim chance that one of the NFL's brightest minds could have misinterpreted a standing rule that was reinforced by a league-wide memo. But more likely, Bill knew exactly what he was doing and figured it was better to apologize afterwards versus ask for clarification beforehand.

To the OP, this wasn't some ploy to tarnish the Patriots. The NFL had no reason to do that to one of their golden franchises. The practice was outlawed because it diminishes the spirit of the game. The Patriots decided the rules didn't apply to them and they should damn well be able to do whatever they like. They got caught. They were punished. The same applies to Deflate-Gate. It's not about how much it helped the Pats win or not. It's about respecting the integrity of the game and remembering that the rules apply to every team the same.

[better days]

And with that, another thread jumped the shark.

Hey, you're "in the film industry". Remember when Francis Ford Coppola had to be talked out of making the Godfather a series of sketches on legal pads, rather than a motion picture?

Yeah. Nobody does.

So Spartacus makes Adult films?

Films that appeal to the base urges of his IDOLS, Kraft, Belicheat & Brady.

[notacon]

This thread is hilarious.

Gotta give it to you Sparky, you have elevated trolling to an art form.

Your argument is for ****, but, this is entertaining.

[Goobylal]

Ask the NFL why they outlaw it and hit the Pats with the maximum penalty for it. And also ask yourself why they continued doing it after getting caught.

[DesertFox24]

They filmed practice, the NFL got ride of the evidence because it was bad. They also do not take first round picks for not doing anything or doing what would equate to tasting your frozen yogurt before you weigh it and then pay.

[CommissarSpartacus]

It's against the rules because the NFL has a rule against it. Prior to the Pats getting banged for it a memo went around the league reminding teams that there was a rule against it and the Patriots did it anyway.

Of course there was a memo. The Pats ignored it ON PURPOSE. I already explained this...


With QB's being able to hear the coach until 15 seconds remain on the play clock having a recorded version of the hand signals (and from the original spygate story the video was analyzed during the game itself, not to use another week) it would allow the coach to tell the QB exactly what to expect as it was happening.

Really? Please explain how a videotape data bank allows this? And do you have a link for the use in game accusation because I must have read close to a hundred stories about it and never heard it was being used in the game itself.


The NFL determined that was not allowed just like they currently say those tablets can't show video, only still pictures and the Patriots got caught ignoring that
They made a decision on the tablets AFTER Spygate and it has nothing to do with what happened previously.


It's really that simple.

Since you say this a lot about things that turn out to be NOT that simple, one would think you'd take a hint and avoid coming to these conclusions prematurely.

[CommissarSpartacus]

[FONT=arial]...I guess there's a slim chance that one of the NFL's brightest minds could have misinterpreted a standing rule that was reinforced by a league-wide memo. But more likely, Bill knew exactly what he was doing

Of course one of the leagues brightest minds knew exactly what he was doing.

He did it ON PURPOSE.

[CommissarSpartacus]

To burst your apologist bubble, the Cheats were videoing closed practices.

No, they were ACCUSED of it by some butt hurt loser.

Absolutely NO EVIDENCE it ever happened.

[harmonkoz]

:spammer:

[EricStratton]

Really? Please explain how a videotape data bank allows this? And do you have a link for the use in game accusation because I must have read close to a hundred stories about it and never heard it was being used in the game itself.



It's not my job to do your homework.

[CommissarSpartacus]

It's not my job to do your homework.

You aren't gonna make me search up your ass again, are you?

[sudzy]

So why not just let them hold up signs saying 2one, man to man, or blit2 and just make it against the rules for anyone on the opposing team to look at them?

How can someone that is obviously as smart as you, not have a high enough paying job where you can afford a keyboard with a Z on it?

[CommissarSpartacus]

How can someone that is obviously as smart as you, not have a high enough paying job where you can afford a keyboard with a Z on it?

I've grown enamored of how much it seems to annoy people...

[YardRat]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3392047

[CommissarSpartacus]

Hey, I found a blast from the past when I joined Patsfans.com for reasons explained in the post.

I was ultimately banned for having a Jack Tatum avatar (LOL!) but it seems they were good enough not to scrub the site...

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/a-bills-fans-take-on-cameragate.61835/


A Bills fan's take on "Cameragate"

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by shiva2999, Sep 19, 2007.

Hey guys, I'm shiva2999 from the #1 Bills forum on the web, www.buffalorange.com, and I'm issuing a personal invitation to any Pats fan that wants to come over and discuss football. I have notified the board that I've become a member here and invited all of my compatriots to come over here and do the same thing. How many will take their man pills and show up is yet to be seen.

be that as it may, if you come over you will see that I have become a virtual pariah with my comrades because I have been defending Belichick and the Pats since this little piece of hilarity broke because you have been getting a raw deal.

Most Bills fans hate me for this because they'd rather wallow in "Belicheat, Belisucks, Belijerk etc" type nonsense and accuse me of being, gasp, a "bad Bills fan".

Big deal. They've been calling me that for years because I've been warning them for years about Rob Johnson/Drew Bledsoe/JP Losman and various other Bills stupidities.

And since I've been right, they hate me even more.

But so what.

So even though I've spit out thousands of words trying to explain the Cameragate hilarity to them, they just refuse to get it so I thought maybe I could come over here and get some intelligent reactions.

But before I start let me digress and give you my bona fides for what they're worth, just so you know where I'm coming from.

I am an almost 50 year NFL fan, since I first watched Jimmy Brown play for Cleveland on my parents little B&W TV.

I have also been a Bills fan since their inception in the AFL.

I have watched thousands of pro football games in my life and every NFL championship since the late 50s, AFL championships since the early 60s and every Superbowl since #1.

So I am old school (with a young outlook :D).

And as such, although i have my favorite teams, I am not the new type of fan that insists you must hate and denigrate all your opponents.

I admire class and talent and balls.

I was a fan of Bart Starr's Packers, Bob Griese's Dolphins, Terry Bradshaw's steelers, Joe Montana's 49ers, Joe Gibb's Redskins and I am not ashamed to admit I am a fan of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady's Patriots.

Plus, although I never worked in the football business, I have worked in the film and TV and advertising businesses for 30 years running film crews, a job that is analogous in a lot of ways with coaching a football team.

So I know a little about how to run groups of 60 - 150 highly paid free agents to try and achieve a common goal.

And in my opinion, the Patriots do it just right.

That being done with, I thought I would post some of the most relevant things I've said about the situation, not because i want to toot my own horn, but because I think you'd enjoy what I had to say.

but before I start, I'll outline my position so you know what my most important points are.

1. Trying to crack another teams signals is a long and honored NFL tradition. Part of the game.

2. When BB or whoever gave BB the idea of using video to compile a database of coaching signals was first proposed and implemented, it WASN'T against the rules, nor was it in anyway unethical. 31 other teams were free to do the same thing.

3. The Patriots won 3 superbowls being smarter and better than everyone else and Eric Mangini was in like a dirty shirt. I don't see him offering to send his three rings back.

4. Belichick MADE Mangini's career.

5. The Jets hired Mangini specifically to get the lowdown on the Pats organization.

6. Bob Kraft supported Roger Goodell in his career and promoted him for the Commissioner's job.

7. When Mangini went to the Jets and started spreading the word that Belichick had a magic database that predicted every coaching call from now to the Rapture, the other teams **** their pants and started lobbying to get a rule stopping the Pats put in place.

8. Goodell could have done the honorable thing and told the other teams to pound sand, but realizing that 31 outvote 1, decided to screw a man that had always been kind and supportive of him to placate the losers and whiners of the league.

9. So Mangini betrayed Belichick and Goodell betrayed Kraft by inventing the no videotaping coaches rule. And Belichick and Kraft, not being the type of guys who let people screw with them, decided to fight back.

10. Thus they decided to stage the little dog and pony show at the Meadowlands. They DID IT ON PURPOSE!

Why?

1. To make a point to Goodell and the league that they are willing to defend their intellectual property (coaching and scouting strategies). And this defense includes a willingness to compromise their own reputations to embarrass Goodell and the league. Who cares about tarnished rings. This is war.

2. To ruin Mangini's career and destroy the Jets' season.

3. To provide the BEST ever motivation for the team to fight like rabid wolverines to their 4th Superbowl title.

And so far, everything has worked perfectly.

Remember, when people that have been proved clever time and again do something that looks stupid to the general onlooker, you can be sure there is something else going on.

And Belichick and Kraft are definitely not stupid guys.

They trotted Estrella out into the open and had him prance around for a reason.

They wanted to FORCE Mangini and the league to bust them.

They wanted this battle, to draw this line in the sand.

And everything that's happened in the meantime has only verified my initial opinion.

Bill Belichick and Bob Kraft are not the cheaters here.

Eric Mangini, Woody Johnson, Roger Goodell and the rest of the losers who couldn't compete on a level playing field were.

Colluding to outlaw an advantage fairly won is cheating, pure and simple.

That is why BB and Kraft decide to call everyone out.

Anyway, here are the two things I posted first about the situation that has made me Public Enemy #1 in Buffalo. Others will follow.

And good luck on Sunday. I'll be rooting for the Bills and praying for a miracle that proves JP Losman isn't Rob Johnson Jr.

9/11/2007

Newest Pats outrage - Belichick hires Kreskin and Criss Angel, NFL to investigate


shiva2999 said: ↑

Does Bill Belichick's evil know no bounds?

http://mountainofmolehills.com

ESPN - New England

PATRIOTS HIRE MENTALIST AND MAGICIAN AMONG SWIRLING ACCUSATIONS OF CHEATING

by Chris "the fink" Mortenson

In a surprise move today by the New England Patriots, Bill Belichick has announced that he has hired famed mentalist Kreskin to predict their opponents game plans and plays and has also retained rock star magician Criss Angell to teach Tom Brady magic and sleight of hand.

The hiring comes one day after accusations of cheating were leveled at the 3 time Superbowl champions by franchises that are defined by their losing seasons.

This is widely seen as a big "**** YOU!" to all the team's whining haters.

Belichick said to a hastily assembled press conference "I read the rule book and it says nothing about clairvoyance or pulling rabbits out of a hat. So go ahead and cry about this one *****es!"

But sources say that the NFL was immediately complained to by a bunch of snivelling franchises that bellyached "It's just not fair!"

The source went on to say that Roger Goodell, NFL commisioner, was on the verge of ordering Kreskin and Angell locked in a box and sent to NFL headquarters for interrogation.

There is also speculation that if this happens, the two may not be in the box when the commissioner opens it.

The hiring comes one day after accusations of cheating were leveled at the 3 time Superbowl champions by franchises that are defined by their losing seasons.

This is widely seen as a big "**** YOU!" to all the team's whining haters.

Belichick said to a hastily assembled press conference "I read the rule book and it says nothing about clairvoyance or pulling rabbits out of a hat. So go ahead and cry about this one *****es!"

But sources say that the NFL was immediately complained to by a bunch of snivelling franchises that bellyached "It's just not fair!"

The source went on to say that Roger Goodell, NFL commisioner, was on the verge of ordering Kreskin and Angell locked in a box and sent to NFL headquarters for interrogation.

There is also speculation that if this happens, the two may not be in the box when the commissioner opens it.

...more...

and... (split for length)

[CommissarSpartacus]

,,,continued...

9/14/2007

Is this cheating?

shiva2999 said: ↑

Since I realize you guys have been in a blood lust the past few days, I know full well what I've been saying about this hilarious videogate battle between Bob Kraft, Bill Belichick, Eric Mangini and the league hasn't sunk in for most guys because they just don't want to hear it.

IMO, it's the same sort of mob behaviour that brought you the Iraq war.

So, be that as it may, I think we should all take a step back and look at a first principles scenario.

Imagine, if you will, that you are a head coach in the early seventies, when having individual D coordinators had become league wide. You line up for a game against some team and play the first half.

As you take a well deserved smoke break, one of your junior assistants, Sparky McHarvard, comes up to you and says "Coach, I've been watching the other coaches and I've noticed something. I think I can tell what plays are being called."

So this puts you in your first ethical conundrum. If the kid can tell what the other team is calling, should you hear it? Is being able to tell what the other side is calling just by looking at them cheating?

Hmmmmm.

So you say, "uh, what the **** are you talking about McHarvard?"

McHarvard puts on his glasses (technology), grabs his pen and notepad (technology) and says, "I made notes about what the D coordinator was signaling on the sideline, and everytime he took off his hat and wiped his brow, they went man to man. When he picked his nose, they always went zone. And when he scratched his ass, they blitzed. Here, I have it all down on paper."

Sparky shows you his notes and damn, if he isn't right.

So then, you're presented with your second and defining conundrum.

Do you say to yourself "I can't use this information. That would be cheating"?

Do you tell Sparky to burn his notes and get his miserable weasel-esque ass out of your sight?

Or do you say "Thanks McHarvard, from now on it's your job to do this every game" and then go into the dressing room, grab your qb and tell him "watch the other guys D coordinator. When he takes off his hat it's man to man, when he picks his nose it's zone, and when he scratches his ass it's a blitz"?

If you go the first route, you get to stand on the sideline watching plays you know are coming but your team doesn't. This may also involve losing.

Or, if you go the second route, you watch your O march up and down the field and walk off the field as winners.

Now, keep in mind that football is a wargame, involving both strength, skill, strategy and tactics.

Game film is watched, teams are scouted and players are analyzed as well as game plans.

So coaches are watched.

It's called getting good intelligence.

So you tell me, what would you do in this situation?

Would you use this information, freely gathered from a public place documented from actions performed in front of throngs of viewers?

Or would you refuse to use it because it's cheating?

My view is of course, you use the information.

Don't be ****ing ridiculous. This is football.

It's part of the game. Always has been.

It's part of the game. Always has been.

Your view may be different.

Tell me why.

[WagonCircler]

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you of the importance of staying on your meds.

They were obviously prescribed for a reason.

[YardRat]

I'm not surprised that Pats fans were duped by a member claiming to 'admire class' but shows up on their board sportin' a Tatum avatar.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I'm not surprised that Pats fans were duped by a member claiming to 'admire class' but shows up on their board sportin' a Tatum avatar.

You think I was gonna educate them AND suck up to them? Uh uh...

I don't make it easy to like me. On purpose.

The narrow gate and all that...

[EricStratton]

You aren't gonna make me search up your ass again, are you?

That's a riot coming from you

[CommissarSpartacus]

That's a riot coming from you

What? I do it too?

Oh noe22222222222222222!

[EricStratton]

Not that you do it too, that would immy I do it at all.

[harmonkoz]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/094/357/Yall-postin-in-a-troll-thread.jpg

[CommissarSpartacus]

Not that you do it too, that would immy I do it at all.

C'mon, you're the guy claiming how simple it all is.

Tell us how the video shot during a game is of any use in that same game?

[Night Train]

Evidence was destroyed or came up missing in Spygate. Thus the backlash now. Any idiot outside of the thread starter would know this.

Kraft knows Goodells ass from a hole in the ground because he's pounding that hole and leading the charge to pay him 40 Mil a year to keep his mouth shut.. outside of swallowing on Saturday night.

[swiper]

Money makes the world go round.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Evidence was destroyed or came up missing in Spygate.

So? What does that prove?

No "evidence" means the Pats are guilty?

I'll alert all the defense lawyers in the world...

[DraftBoy]

Though we don't often agree Spartacus is right on about the completely inconsistent acceptance of what happened with spygate. Stealing signs is ok but if you video tape them that's out of bounds? That's just a funny line to draw in the sand. However, the reason the Pats got punished wasn't for the action as much as it was for what ES posted.


It's against the rules because the NFL has a rule against it. Prior to the Pats getting banged for it a memo went around the league reminding teams that there was a rule against it and the Patriots did it anyway.

With QB's being able to hear the coach until 15 seconds remain on the play clock having a recorded version of the hand signals (and from the original spygate story the video was analyzed during the game itself, not to use another week) it would allow the coach to tell the QB exactly what to expect as it was happening.

The NFL determined that was not allowed just like they currently say those tablets can't show video, only still pictures and the Patriots got caught ignoring that

It's really that simple.

NFL issued a policy memorandum, Pats ignored, Pats got slapped.

It happened, time to move on.

[CommissarSpartacus]

NFL issued a policy memorandum, Pats ignored, Pats got slapped.


The Pats did it on purpose, and made their point.

A perfect season WITHOUT their video data base.

Suck on that, competition committee...

[DynaPaul]

Spartacus

17263

[CommissarSpartacus]

Spartacus


LOL!

As if a guy with a pic of a crying Tom Brady in his sig is supposed to be taken seriously on the subject...

[harmonkoz]

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140209013353/creepypasta/images/a/a9/Don't_Feed_the_Troll.jpeg

[CommissarSpartacus]

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140209013353/creepypasta/images/a/a9/Don't_Feed_the_Troll.jpeg

Once is okay. Multiple times indicates psychological problems.

[Lucidvizion]

Once is okay. Multiple times indicates psychological problems.

How many threads have you started about this?

[swiper]

How many threads have you started about this?

He's like an attention-seeking child.

[CommissarSpartacus]

How many threads have you started about this?

Has an accident deprived you of your ability to count?

[DynaPaul]

LOL!

As if a guy with a pic of a crying Tom Brady in his sig is supposed to be taken seriously on the subject...

Maybe I'll change it to a crying Spartacus instead.

[Lucidvizion]

Has an accident deprived you of your ability to count?

Well I guess that one flew right over your head.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Maybe I'll change it to a crying Spartacus instead.

Be my guest.

Good luck finding one...

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well I guess that one flew right over your head.

Think so? Did it's subtlety escape me?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Be my guest.

Good luck finding one...

FOUND ONE!!!



17266

[harmonkoz]

Lol

[CommissarSpartacus]

I find urls hilarious as well, especially when they reference 8 year old internet memes.

Well, at least it wasn't the Star Wars kid...

[DynaPaul]

I find urls hilarious as well, especially when they reference 8 year old internet memes.

Well, at least it wasn't the Star Wars kid...

Somehow I picture you looking very much like him complete with Cheeto stains on your fingertips.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Somehow I picture you looking very much like him complete with Cheeto stains on your fingertips.

Nothing like an irrational fantasy, huh?

I guess that's all some people have...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How many threads have you started about this?

Remember that this started with Spartacus complaining that we would talk about this too much and ruin the Super Bowl.

That was how many threads ago?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Remember that this started with Spartacus complaining that we would talk about this too much and ruin the Super Bowl.

That was how many threads ago?

Oh noe2! have I ruined the Superbowl for the Patriot haters by laughing at the lynch mob?

What a selfish, selfish man I am.

I keep forgetting I'm a Canadian and thus don't understand that the US Constitution allows citi2ens to be ass holes whenever you feel like it with no justification required.

[justasportsfan]

Oh noe2! have I ruined the Superbowl for the Patriot haters by laughing at the lynch mob?

What a selfish, selfish man I am.

I keep forgetting I'm a Canadian and thus don't understand that the US Constitution allows citi2ens to be ass holes whenever you feel like it with no justification required.


Hey Sparty, Bob Kraft didn't ask for an apology for spygate. He paid the fine and accepted losing a draft pick because of it. If Kraft is ok, you should let it go.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Hey Sparty, Bob Kraft didn't ask for an apology for spygate. He paid the fine and accepted losing a draft pick because of it.

Indeed he did.

So what?

[trapezeus]

when the team's qb is a whiny child, it's not a surprise that their fans become petulant little turds as well.

you got what you deserved and we all hope you get more of it.

[mightysimi]

Video cameras are just recording devices.

They can't do your thinking for you. It just gives you a data base.

Which I believe runs on electricity, making it an electronic aid.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Oh noe2! have I ruined the Superbowl for the Patriot haters by laughing at the lynch mob?

No, you started this little sideshow a week ago with this: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/227888-Should-The-Patriots-Be-Disqualified-From-The-Super-Bowl?p=4052796&viewfull=1#post4052796


You've totally poisoned the Superbowl out of spite.


What a selfish, selfish man I am.

I keep forgetting I'm a Canadian and thus don't understand that the US Constitution allows citi2ens to be ass holes whenever you feel like it with no justification required.

This has never been about the Patriots for you, and nothing ever is. It's yet another Spartacus vs. the big dumb Americans political thread. At least you used to have the decency to confine that **** to the politics board.

[Night Train]

Good God.

Did the Island of Misfits (Range) close their doors ?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Which I believe runs on electricity, making it an electronic aid.

Light bulbs, computers and head sets are all electronic aid. Run on electricity.

[CommissarSpartacus]

No, you started this little sideshow a week ago with this: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/227888-Should-The-Patriots-Be-Disqualified-From-The-Super-Bowl?p=4052796&viewfull=1#post4052796

This has never been about the Patriots for you, and nothing ever is. It's yet another Spartacus vs. the big dumb Americans political thread. At least you used to have the decency to confine that **** to the politics board.

Don't be absurd. This is ALL ABOUT politics. Corporate politics. Spying. Cheating. False accusations.

In other words, BIG DUMB AMERICANS doing what they do best.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Light bulbs, computers and head sets are all electronic aid. Run on electricity.

All supplied by the NFL and/or used by all teams within the rules of the game.

Maybe you can name some other things that use electricity? You're doing very well so far.

[mightysimi]

Light bulbs, computers and head sets are all electronic aid. Run on electricity.

which of those would you use to record signals and then playback for use in future games?

[CommissarSpartacus]

All supplied by the NFL and/or used by all teams within the rules of the game.


And when the Pats started taping the sidelines, it was within the rules as well.

It was when the other teams found out that the Pats had a 6 year head start on everyone else that they put the rule in.

The ONLY reason it was banned was because the Pats had the brains to think of it and all the other teams hadn't.

They couldn't beat the Pats on the field so they decided to gang up on them via the competition committee...

Both Belichek and Kraft thought that was bull****, and so do I.

Legislating against brains and imagination.

Gotta level the playing field so the stupid and witless can compete too!

[CommissarSpartacus]

which of those would you use to record signals and then playback for use in future games?

Uh, they were never used in games. They were used in prep. The video just provides a research library, a record of something 70,000 or so people watched if they were paying attention. Doesn't tell you what to do or how to win.

[justasportsfan]

And when the Pats started taping the sidelines, it was within the rules as well.

and thats why they got fined and lost a draft pick...because they were taping within the rules :coocoo:

[justasportsfan]

Uh, they were never used in games. They were used in prep. The video just provides a research library, a record of something 70,000 or so people watched if they were paying attention. Doesn't tell you what to do or how to win.

and thats why the videos were mysteriously destroyed because they had nothing to hide :coocoo:

[mightysimi]

Uh, they were never used in games. They were used in prep. The video just provides a research library, a record of something 70,000 or so people watched if they were paying attention. Doesn't tell you what to do or how to win.

Watched but didn't tape. I'm not sure how good your memory is but if I was watching a guy waving his hands for 3 hours from the stands, I might forget one or two.

Are you sure the info was never used in games? With all of that taping, if they saw a signal they knew, they wouldn't then adjust the defence? You can't believe that.

[CommissarSpartacus]

and thats why they got fined and lost a draft pick...because they were taping within the rules :coocoo:

And who fined them and took a draft pick away?

The very same people that got together to change the rule in the first place.

Insisting that this come out into the open was the only way the Pats could make their point - that they weren't going to let the other teams bully and cheat them out of something they'd earned through their brains and hard work.

They could care less about the money and the draft pick, just like they could care less about the opinions of people who are willing to be unreasonable just to hate the patriots.

I'.e had enough. It's gotten too stupid.

All you guys that want to believe a fantasy version of history, well, be my guest.

You have a right to be stupid. It's in the Constitution.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Watched but didn't tape. I'm not sure how good your memory is but if I was watching a guy waving his hands for 3 hours from the stands, I might forget one or two.

Are you sure the info was never used in games? With all of that taping, if they saw a signal they knew, they wouldn't then adjust the defence? You can't believe that.

That was the point. You match their signals up with the plays they ran.

This doesn't ensure that they won't change their signals. If they do, then the tape is useless.

You guys think it's some sort of ****ing magic wand, like pointing a video camera at a guy waving his arms is going to unlock the keys to the kingdom.

It isn't. It only provides a record of past behavior. the coaches still have to figure out what it all means and how to deal with it...

[Joe Fo Sho]

That was the point. You match their signals up with the plays they ran.

This doesn't ensure that they won't change their signals. If they do, then the tape is useless.

You guys think it's some sort of ****ing magic wand, like pointing a video camera at a guy waving his arms is going to unlock the keys to the kingdom.

It isn't. It only provides a record of past behavior. the coaches still have to figure out what it all means and how to deal with it...

What it provides is an illegal advantage over other teams.

[Joe Fo Sho]

And when the Pats started taping the sidelines, it was within the rules as well.

It was when the other teams found out that the Pats had a 6 year head start on everyone else that they put the rule in.

The ONLY reason it was banned was because the Pats had the brains to think of it and all the other teams hadn't.

They couldn't beat the Pats on the field so they decided to gang up on them via the competition committee...

Both Belichek and Kraft thought that was bull****, and so do I.

You mean the guys who got caught cheating and fined for it thought it was bogus? Weird how that works.

[mightysimi]

That was the point. You match their signals up with the plays they ran.

This doesn't ensure that they won't change their signals. If they do, then the tape is useless.

You guys think it's some sort of ****ing magic wand, like pointing a video camera at a guy waving his arms is going to unlock the keys to the kingdom.

It isn't. It only provides a record of past behavior. the coaches still have to figure out what it all means and how to deal with it...

If they don't it's as if the other team was in the huddle. Why would they need to change their signals if they didn't know they were being recorded?

Why do they review the tape of any games if they could just change the plays? It would be useless right?

[Bill Cody]

And who fined them and took a draft pick away?

The very same people that got together to change the rule in the first place.

Insisting that this come out into the open was the only way the Pats could make their point - that they weren't going to let the other teams bully and cheat them out of something they'd earned through their brains and hard work.

They could care less about the money and the draft pick, just like they could care less about the opinions of people who are willing to be unreasonable just to hate the patriots.

I'.e had enough. It's gotten too stupid.

All you guys that want to believe a fantasy version of history, well, be my guest.

You have a right to be stupid. It's in the Constitution.

Well that's not the reason BB gave after Mangini squealed to the league. Bellichick said he thought he could tape as long as he wasn't using the tape in the same game. Not sure if that was a reasonable assumption based on the league memo but that's his story. My understanding is NE was not the only team taping. But they're the only team that ignored the memo. Jimmy Johnson said a coach from the Chiefs had told him about it but he hadn't done it because he decided it wasn't worth doing. <shrug>

[Strongman]

Kurt Warner isn't sure the Pats** won their Super Bowls on the up and up.

PHOENIX - The DeflateGate scandal has conjured up some not-so-fond memories for Kurt Warner, who might have been cheated out of a Super Bowl by the Patriots over a decade ago. Although no hard evidence that the Patriots videotaped the Rams walk-through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI remains, Warner still has residual doubt about whether or not the Bill Belichick-Tom Brady dynasty was built on lies.

The Patriots' 20-17 win over the heavily favored Greatest Show on Turf 13 years ago still stings.

"I don't want to believe that there was anything outside of his team beat our team," Warner said at Media Day on Tuesday. "That's what I want to believe. Yeah, there's a sliver of a doubt… Was there any advantage they gained in any game? Not just our Super Bowl game, but maybe a game before that to get to the Super Bowl. All those things enter your mind. It's not because I'm bitter. It's not because I say they cheated, because I have no idea."

Marshall Faulk made his feelings abundantly clear two years ago when he told CSN New England that he'd "never be over being cheated out of the Super Bowl." The Rams installed new red-zone and third-down calls specifically for that game, according to Faulk. The Patriots either made superior calls/adjustments or had the answers to the test, the Hall of Fame running back surmised.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/kurt-warner-suspicious-patriots-deflategate-article-1.2094128

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well that's not the reason BB gave after Mangini squealed to the league. Bellichick said he thought he could tape as long as he wasn't using the tape in the same game. Not sure if that was a reasonable assumption based on the league memo but that's his story. My understanding is NE was not the only team taping. But they're the only team that ignored the memo. Jimmy Johnson said a coach from the Chiefs had told him about it but he hadn't done it because he decided it wasn't worth doing. <shrug>

What Belichek said was for public consumption.

There was NO rule before mangini ratted. It was onlt put in AFTER the other teams learned about it.

Why do you think they put a rule in about it?

They could have very well said, "Every other team in the league was free to do the exact same thing as the Patriots did, and have done. There is nothing stopping them now. Carry on.", which would have been eminently fair. But they didn't.

Why?