Have we all given up on EJ too soon [Archive] - BillsZone.com

DesertFox24

01-30-2015, 12:48 PM

Look we all know EJ is not going to be an elite top 5 QB who wills his team into super bowl contention despite the talent around him, we get that. What I am asking is does EJ have a chance to develop into a top 16 to lower above average QB area. This is the Dalton, Alex Smith, Tanneyhill area, none of those guys are going to win the game alone and need to be on a good team and they have noticeable weaknesses and can absolutely lose a game for you (Dalton Thursday night vs browns Tanneyhill week 2 against us and both games in 2013). This is the question I have for all of us. Now I fully expect the Bills to bring in 2 FA one with a legit chance to start and probably an older guy to compete with Tuel for the backup job and be a mentor slash last ditch effort if Ej and FA blow up in flames. However, lets just say for the sake of this debate that EJ wins the job. We all agree he has not done anything to ease the concerns but I do believe he has physical traits that can make him an above average QB and help this team. He has a great arm, he is very smart, does work his tail off, can make every throw a pro QB needs to make, his accuracy can be on the money or way off though, and he does not give his WRs a chance on deep balls. I honestly believe the deep ball issue can be resolved and he did make some strides late in his rookie season and even this year that throw to Sammy against the phins was on the money but a great play by Grimes. Heck to be honest I am not sure why I am even posting this because the majority of you do not see an elite QB and will say suck for whomever in 2016. I on the other hand say if Kaep and Dalton can look decent and help teams to playoffs I do not see any reason EJ cannot, hopefully this staff lets him cut loose and he drops that fear of turnover mentality and just plays and fires away.

better days

01-30-2015, 01:07 PM

Roman said of EJ: "we just have to turn him loose".

I expect Roman to run the same type of offense the 49ers ran with Kaepernick.

I expect EJ to be named the starter. HOPE he plays well.

Joe Fo Sho

01-30-2015, 01:12 PM

With the caliber of QBs available in free agency, as well as the fact that we don't have a 1st round pick, EJ is going to be given every chance to win the starting job this coming year. If he can't beat out a 'Matt Moore' type free agent or a middle round rookie QB, then he's got problems...and so do we more than likely.

I think it's safe to say that if EJ earns the starting job this year, everyone on this board will be rooting for him to succeed. EJ becoming an above average QB is a better solution than drafting a QB high next year any way you look at it. If he struggles out of the gate, that's when you're going to see people start talking about drafting a QB high in 2016. I can't root for the Bills to lose, so I'll be backing whoever is behind center all season long.

Mr. Miyagi

01-30-2015, 01:51 PM

SpikedLemonade

01-30-2015, 01:52 PM

I fear it is EJ or bust this year.

bleve

01-30-2015, 01:58 PM

oh boy...

https://i.imgflip.com/cobb6.gif

DesertFox24

01-30-2015, 02:03 PM

Even if we had 19 the price to move up to get Mariota (whom I am not sold on) or Winston (best to come out since luck but off field) would be other worldly and Whaley would not do it. Also if Mariota and Winston are considered that good no way Bucs or Titans trade away from him since they need guys as well. As for the gif posted yes he has missed throws and badly, but so do all the QBs in the NFL even Tom and Peyton.

swiper

01-30-2015, 02:13 PM

oh boy...

https://i.imgflip.com/cobb6.gif

While playing "Turn Me Loose" from Loverboy.

ROFL.

swiper

01-30-2015, 02:15 PM

ticatfan

01-30-2015, 02:17 PM

Should have hired trestman.

feldspar

01-30-2015, 02:31 PM

It doesn't matter whichever fans think whatever about EJ Manuel. It matters what the coaches think about EJ Manuel. It matters what they think about how he measures up to whomever they bring in to compete. Not too complicated, and this goes without saying.

Seems like EJ will be on the team no matter what next year. Doesn't seem like the Bills will have a chance to bring in a world-beater at QB. He'll have his chance to compete. I don't see what the discussion is here. Anybody that has "given up" on EJ Manuel will be the same people rooting for him if he starts.

Dr. Who

01-30-2015, 02:39 PM

Joe Fo Sho

01-30-2015, 02:43 PM

I'm so tired of everyone saying we can't get a QB because we don't have a first round pick. Even if we did have our first pick at #19, there is no QB in this class that will go in the first round that I think is that much better than EJ or anybody in FA. Any QB we think we might take a shot at will likely be there in the second round.

My point is only that we probably won't draft a QB that will start this coming year. We absolutely could find a gem later than the 1st round, but the likelihood of that QB starting in 2015 is pretty low. By starting, I mean week 1. I have to think that EJ has the best chance of winning the starting job week 1, unless we make a trade or an unlikely QB becomes a free agent this year.

feldspar

01-30-2015, 03:06 PM

You'd hope so, but there are some posters who will not be rooting for him. They'd rather be right in their negative certitude than pleasantly surprised.

Some people are like that, but that's THEIR problem, isn't it?

But I think that a great portion of the people that think none-too-highly of him will root for him anyway if he suits up to start. They'd come equipped with their "I told you so" backup ammo of course, but it's still their own deal.

I think that even his biggest supporters are of the attitude that "we may have given up on him too soon," or that he needs another chance. That's probably the ceiling of his fans in general right now. So the "I told ya so" thing should be kept in everyone's pocket...we know better than that, though...it won't be.

I'll just root for whomever is behind Center. What the hell else would I do?

WagonCircler

01-30-2015, 03:35 PM

I won't even be watching if he starts.

It will be back to boozing and skirt chasing for me.

Sunday Funday.

I've already seen the EJ show. It sucks balls. It was a remake of the Trent Edwards show.

If EJ is the plan, then Rex Ryan is a ****ing idiot.

trapezeus

01-30-2015, 04:11 PM

he went 2-2 with an offense that was legendarily bad.

i would think scheme and an actual running game could help him significantly.

also having a line that knew what was going on could help. and i don't think our line was bad because the talent isnt there. i think they were poorly coached.

There is always a chance.

swiper

01-30-2015, 04:37 PM

If any fans think EJ Manuel has a chance of being a productive pro, they don't have any idea of what they are looking at. Then again with Dr. WhoWhatWhere, we already know that.

YardRat

01-30-2015, 05:39 PM

Considering he's yet to play a full 16 games and was handicapped from the beginning with piss-poor coaching yes, it's still too early to give up on EJ becoming a marginal or better starter. But, when given the chance this season (which he'll get) in practice and games he's going to have to show a helluva lot more than he has up to this point. The lightbulb needs to come on sooner rather than later.

BillsImpossible

01-30-2015, 05:55 PM

I don't think EJ will be the starter next year.

Training camp is going to be interesting because everyone is going to be focused on EJ Manuel and how he's playing.

If Manuel continues to show no signs of progress, there's no reason to start him.

I have a feeling that after about a week of training camp, fans and the media are going to be unimpressed and saying the same thing, "Same EJ, poor throws, looks the same as last year."

EJ Manuel has about 2 weeks to prove himself in training camp. That's it.

Put in a rookie, and move on.

sudzy

01-30-2015, 06:09 PM

If any fans think EJ Manuel has a chance of being a productive pro, they don't have any idea of what they are looking at. Then again with Dr. WhoWhatWhere, we already know that.

Some people just have a problem of letting go of the dream. Some of us will look at what we've seen from EJ and say "if that's our answer, we are in trouble." Others will try and make excuses for why he sucks and how he is a franchise QB waiting for someone to miraculously transform him into one for as long as he's on the roster. But he's only started 14 games, maybe if we use him like this.... he's only started 20 games, maybe if we use him like that.... he's only started 48 games, maybe....

YardRat

01-30-2015, 06:21 PM

Some people just have a problem of letting go of the dream. Some of us will look at what we've seen from EJ and say "if that's our answer, we are in trouble." Others will try and make excuses for why he sucks and how he is a franchise QB waiting for someone to miraculously transform him into one for as long as he's on the roster. But he's only started 14 games, maybe if we use him like this.... he's only started 20 games, maybe if we use him like that.... he's only started 48 games, maybe....

That's called 'Spillerizing'.

Mace

01-30-2015, 06:31 PM

I think they already screwed up a project player by having no QB coach his first year, and no vet to teach him, then hiring a bad QB coach and putting him behind a vet QB who wasn't inclined toward teaching. They threw him into the fire from a college spread offense into up tempo west coast fast read his first year, then changed it to vanilla his second, not exactly a consistent way to develop everyone. They wanted him mobile, then didn't want him mobile, wanted him to sling it then didn't want him to make mistakes. I'd be amazed if they haven't already Trent Edwards'ed him away from however he might have developed, or even Losmanned him already.

Not keen on David Lee, but he's a step up into average QB coach, Roman will run an offense that takes pressure off him. I like Manuel, I want to see him succeed, I'll be happy if he does and admit I'm wrong because in his 3rd year they probably already dorked up his potential.

I'd have been happier if he'd done like Kaepernick, and went for some offseason QB guru work, but hey, it is what it is. He's supposed to be a smart guy, seems diligent, has a good strong arm, is plenty mobile. If his head catches up with his body, we might have something special.

Past precedent being what it is though, I find it hard to be optimistic. I don't see anyone in the draft who might be available that I think would be better, and I don't see any FA's I think would be better, so I'm resigned to whatever happens happening. We're not talking Air Roman though, so whatever does happen won't be spectacularly bad or spectacularly good anyway, and worst case, he's a placeholder for the next guy in 2016.

BertSquirtgum

01-30-2015, 06:33 PM

Should have hired trestman.

Oh yeah. He did so great with the Bears' offense.

TacklingDummy

01-30-2015, 06:53 PM

I'll give up on EJ when he's no longer a Bill.

There's always hope.

Mr. Pink

01-30-2015, 07:50 PM

Roman said of EJ: "we just have to turn him loose".

I expect Roman to run the same type of offense the 49ers ran with Kaepernick.

I expect EJ to be named the starter. HOPE he plays well.

Replace turn to cut and that would be a correct statement.

He's garbage and this organization has done nothing to work on making him better.

better days

01-30-2015, 11:10 PM

Replace turn to cut and that would be a correct statement.

He's garbage and this organization has done nothing to work on making him better.

I agree Marrone & Hackett did nothing for EJ, I want to see what GOOD Coaching can do for him.

swiper

01-31-2015, 04:28 AM

Replace turn to cut and that would be a correct statement.

He's garbage and this organization has done nothing to work on making him better.

What will all the EJ apologists say when the new coaches go in a different direction too? You have to LOL at people who suggest that Greg Roman expects to use EJ Manuel like he did Colin Kaepernick. Those people obviously don't actually watch football. For if the did, they would see how mobile Kaepernick naturally is and how stiff and clumsy Manuel is.

Night Train

01-31-2015, 05:34 AM

Strongman

01-31-2015, 05:59 AM

I was part of the anti-EJ crowd, but am now having second thoughts on him. Marrone and Hackett had no idea what they were doing. His first year here was the worse scenario possible for a young QB. I'm much more optimistic with Roman and Lee working with him.

better days

01-31-2015, 07:27 AM

He gets one more shot in camp and should be working his backside off NOW on crossing patterns and accuracy downfield with the new coaches and the starting WR's.

If he doesn't improve, it's over. I'm rooting for him but it's do or die time.

Because of the rules, EJ is not allowed to work with Bills Coaches yet.

The Good news is because of the new HC Coach , the Bills will get more time with the new Coaches than teams with a HC that was in place.

swiper

01-31-2015, 08:02 AM

Because of the rules, EJ is not allowed to work with Bills Coaches yet.

The Good news is because of the new HC Coach , the Bills will get more time with the new Coaches than teams with a HC that was in place.

The bad news is that he has to learn a whole new playbook.

better days

01-31-2015, 08:09 AM

The bad news is that he has to learn a whole new playbook.

True. But I think EJ has shown the ability to hand the ball off to the RB.

Expect to see a lot of that, with an occasional shot downfield.

Dr. Who

01-31-2015, 08:39 AM

EJ isn't stupid. I don't think there's any problem learning the playbook.
His problem is seeing the field and analyzing what to do quickly. This is a typical problem for young qbs and some never get it.
It's too early to say with EJ. I am sure he will be in a better position to succeed with the current coaching staff.

Of course, this is all wild-eyed optimism from someone who doesn't know anything about football . . .

swiper

01-31-2015, 09:26 AM

ROFL. Good to see you lied to everyone about putting me on ignore.

Strongman

01-31-2015, 09:27 AM

I think EJ's problem is more psychological than anything else. That can be fixed.

There was an interesting link on another thread that graphed his measurables and some other QBs: http://nflphilosophy.com/a-visual-representation-of-nfl-quarterbacks/

As far as metrics are concerned, I was really surprised to see that he is probably the closest one to Andrew Luck. If he can be developed, (and Roman has has some success developing QBs) we are going to have a very good QB. Some QBs can come right in and be successful, but others are going to take more time. It's safe to say, EJ is looking to be more of a slow developer. I'd rather keep him and only cut him when we are absolutely sure he won't develop into an NFL starter. This might take another year or two.

In the meantime, they should bring some FAs in and let them compete for the starting job and EJ would be more of a backup and developmental project. By doing this, the worse case scenario is we have him for a back up and the best case is we finally get our franchise QB in a year.

IlluminatusUIUC

01-31-2015, 09:52 AM

I'm not ready to cut him, but this is really his make or break year. If he comes into camp and then pre-season with the same wild throws, it's pretty much over. We absolutely need some competition for him though.

Dr. Who

01-31-2015, 09:54 AM

Strongman

01-31-2015, 09:55 AM

I agree with this. I think people underestimate how badly Marrone handled the situation. Mace gave a pretty good rundown.

Putting EJ and Andrew Luck in the same sentence is going to invite savage responses, however.

I know. I'm not by any means saying he's as good as him... only that his measurables stack up well with Luck's.

Dr. Who

01-31-2015, 09:57 AM

I know. I'm not by any means saying he's as good as him... only that his measurables stack up well with Luck's.

Of course. That is evident and I know what you mean.
The uncivilized will distort in order to mock and generally be bastards.

IlluminatusUIUC

01-31-2015, 09:58 AM

I know. I'm not by any means saying he's as good as him... only that his measurables stack up well with Luck's.

They do, but on the field his speed an athleticism don't translate nearly as well. If EJ lived up to his fullest potential, I think his game would look a lot more like Ben Roethlisberger but he's not gonna reach that.

Strongman

01-31-2015, 10:05 AM

They do, but on the field his speed an athleticism don't translate nearly as well. If EJ lived up to his fullest potential, I think his game would look a lot more like Ben Roethlisberger but he's not gonna reach that.

Maybe. Honestly, I'm honestly having a little of a hard time seeing the comparison. I think Roethlisberger plays a more physical game than EJ ever would. I kind of see him as more of an Alex Smith type.

IlluminatusUIUC

01-31-2015, 10:38 AM

Maybe. Honestly, I'm honestly having a little of a hard time seeing the comparison. I think Roethlisberger plays a more physical game than EJ ever would. I kind of see him as more of an Alex Smith type.

Well what I would hope for is Roethlisberger's ability to extend a play, take a few hits, and drive the ball downfield. I don't ever see EJ as the kind of QB who's going to hit 7-9 short passes per drive and march the length of the field the way Smith does.

Ingtar33

01-31-2015, 10:51 AM

This is the Dalton, Alex Smith, Tanneyhill area, none of those guys are going to win the game alone and need to be on a good team and they have noticeable weaknesses and can absolutely lose a game for you

Dalton and Tanneyhill both were better QBs out of the gate then EJ ever looked. Alex Smith is sort of a weird case, because i can't remember the last time a first round pick was given 4 years (all starting) to figure it out. I said after EJ was drafted "alex smith" is probably the absolute max we can expect from EJ". I was optimistic though. EJ needs to get a LOT more accurate before he can even be discussed in the same breath with alex smith. and yes i just wrote that sentence. think about that for a minute. Alex Smith is the very definition of a "game managing" -mediocre quarterback. and i just without hesitation said it's an insult to Alex Smith to even include EJ in the same breath with him. That's how far away he is from being a mediocre starting qb. I think a lot of people are forgetting just how rancid EJ has been these last two seasons.

WagonCircler

01-31-2015, 11:12 AM

I think a lot of people are forgetting just how rancid EJ has been these last two seasons.

Now you just insulted one of my favorite bands.

YardRat

01-31-2015, 11:16 AM

I don't know, EJ doesn't appear to have anywhere near the pocket presence that Big Ben does...Alex Smith seems to be a closer comparison to me.

Mr. Pink

01-31-2015, 11:22 AM

He still looks like Akili Smith to me.

better days

01-31-2015, 11:26 AM

Dalton and Tanneyhill both were better QBs out of the gate then EJ ever looked. Alex Smith is sort of a weird case, because i can't remember the last time a first round pick was given 4 years (all starting) to figure it out. I said after EJ was drafted "alex smith" is probably the absolute max we can expect from EJ". I was optimistic though. EJ needs to get a LOT more accurate before he can even be discussed in the same breath with alex smith. and yes i just wrote that sentence. think about that for a minute. Alex Smith is the very definition of a "game managing" -mediocre quarterback. and i just without hesitation said it's an insult to Alex Smith to even include EJ in the same breath with him. That's how far away he is from being a mediocre starting qb. I think a lot of people are forgetting just how rancid EJ has been these last two seasons.

You mean in the entire FOURTEEN games EJ has played?

LESS than ONE entire season.

16 TDs passing 3 TDs rushing 12 INTs is NOT rancid.

IlluminatusUIUC

01-31-2015, 11:41 AM

I don't know, EJ doesn't appear to have anywhere near the pocket presence that Big Ben does...Alex Smith seems to be a closer comparison to me.

In what way is he like Alex Smith? Of all the comparisons, that one seems the most bizarre. Smith makes his living on short, safe throws and he hits them with regularity. To the point where it's become a huge weakness, as the guy hasn't thrown a TD to a wide receiver since the 2014 playoffs. Kansas City's offense goes because they have arguably the best dual-threat halfback in football.

Now if you look at EJ, his biggest strengths are his athleticism - he is big, strong, fast, and has a howitzer arm. His biggest weaknesses are his poor ability to read defense and his inconsistent accuracy. Why would you project a guy with those traits into someone like Smith, who will just throw 5 yard outs and slants all day and call it a game plan? He's not going to play like Smith and I think it would be an even bigger mistake to make him try.

I think the offense needs to be tailored to his downfield throws, because IMO he'll either sink or swim on that.

Ingtar33

01-31-2015, 01:12 PM

You mean in the entire FOURTEEN games EJ has played?

LESS than ONE entire season.

16 TDs passing 3 TDs rushing 12 INTs is NOT rancid.

the only reason the int numbers aren't higher is because he doesn't throw the ball to covered players, AND he's typically so inacurate it's often not just out of the reach of the WR but the DB. Int numbers aren't everything.

Meathead

01-31-2015, 01:13 PM

akili, alex, all those guys look the same to me. you know, the smiths

djjimkelly

01-31-2015, 02:28 PM

The bad news is that he has to learn a whole new playbook.

guarenteed all players in the bills future have some form of romans offense already especially EJ and tuel the qbs

WagonCircler

01-31-2015, 04:55 PM

akili, alex, all those guys look the same to me. you know, the smiths

Two insults to favorite bands of mine in one page of one thread.

You people and I are going to Clash.

Strongman

01-31-2015, 05:01 PM

In what way is he like Alex Smith? Of all the comparisons, that one seems the most bizarre. Smith makes his living on short, safe throws and he hits them with regularity. To the point where it's become a huge weakness, as the guy hasn't thrown a TD to a wide receiver since the 2014 playoffs. Kansas City's offense goes because they have arguably the best dual-threat halfback in football.

Now if you look at EJ, his biggest strengths are his athleticism - he is big, strong, fast, and has a howitzer arm. His biggest weaknesses are his poor ability to read defense and his inconsistent accuracy. Why would you project a guy with those traits into someone like Smith, who will just throw 5 yard outs and slants all day and call it a game plan? He's not going to play like Smith and I think it would be an even bigger mistake to make him try.

I think the offense needs to be tailored to his downfield throws, because IMO he'll either sink or swim on that.

Physically, you make a good point. I was thinking more of EJ's mental makeup. Like Smith, EJ seems very adverse to taking risks with the ball. Big Ben has zero problem with taking risk (on and off the field).

swiper

01-31-2015, 05:19 PM

Physically, you make a good point. I was thinking more of EJ's mental makeup. Like Smith, EJ seems very adverse to taking risks with the ball. Big Ben has zero problem with taking risk (on and off the field).

Uh. In case you haven't opened your eyes while you watch football (which is what it seems), Roethlisberger is thicker and stronger than either Smith or Manuel. Manuel is a fragile strawman.

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/ej-manuel-wont-step-out-of-bounds-gets-hit-in-the-knee-a.gif

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3545585/timmons.gif

http://i.cbc.ca/1.1913013.1380912107!/cpImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_460/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills.jpg

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/39/86/39860f894d054910f69fa6191bd71a48.jpg?itok=HZ9OYEeo

http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/USP_NFL__BUFFALO_BILLS_AT_CLEVELAND_BROWNS_58916672-1024x682.jpg

Strongman

01-31-2015, 05:35 PM

Uh. In case you haven't opened your eyes while you watch football (which is what it seems), Roethlisberger is thicker and stronger than either Smith or Manuel. Manuel is a fragile strawman.

EJ Manuel: 6'6 and 247 lbs frame vs. Ben Roethlisberger: 6'5 and 241 lbs.

That looks pretty similar to me:

And maybe if you could read, you would have noticed I compared Smith's and EJ's mental makeup and not physical abilities.

YardRat

01-31-2015, 06:23 PM

In what way is he like Alex Smith? Of all the comparisons, that one seems the most bizarre. Smith makes his living on short, safe throws and he hits them with regularity. To the point where it's become a huge weakness, as the guy hasn't thrown a TD to a wide receiver since the 2014 playoffs. Kansas City's offense goes because they have arguably the best dual-threat halfback in football.

Now if you look at EJ, his biggest strengths are his athleticism - he is big, strong, fast, and has a howitzer arm. His biggest weaknesses are his poor ability to read defense and his inconsistent accuracy. Why would you project a guy with those traits into someone like Smith, who will just throw 5 yard outs and slants all day and call it a game plan? He's not going to play like Smith and I think it would be an even bigger mistake to make him try.

I think the offense needs to be tailored to his downfield throws, because IMO he'll either sink or swim on that.

I think the way Roman used Smith in SF, and KC uses him now, is the better formula for EJ to build from. Short passes, quick reads, throw in the occasional run. EJ needs to start somewhere, and if he can't succeed in a Smith-style offense his howitzer arm is a non-issue unless he improves drastically on his accuracy and awareness in the pocket, not to mention reading defenses. IMO considering those weaknesses, if you tailor the gameplan for his downfield throws you might as well tie an anchor to him and watch him sink. Cut him now, because it's extremely unlikely he's going to crash out of the gate this season and all of sudden be light years better than he has in the past.

swiper

01-31-2015, 07:13 PM

EJ Manuel: 6'6 and 247 lbs frame vs. Ben Roethlisberger: 6'5 and 241 lbs.

That looks pretty similar to me:

And maybe if you could read, you would have noticed I compared Smith's and EJ's mental makeup and not physical abilities.

Manuel looks thin and frail. And who cares about his mental makeup when he has no QB instincts whatsoever.

swiper

01-31-2015, 07:19 PM

Manuel looks thin and frail. And who cares about his mental makeup when he has no QB instincts whatsoever.

And not sure where you get 6' 6" and 247.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15803/ej-manuel

http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/profile

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1672655/ej-manuel

Strongman

01-31-2015, 07:47 PM

And not sure where you get 6' 6" and 247.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15803/ej-manuel

http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/profile

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1672655/ej-manuel

Got it from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EJ_Manuel

Other sites have him listed at 6'5 and 237

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83592&draftyear=2013&genpos=qb

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83592&draftyear=2013&genpos=qb

Either way, 6'4 and 237 is not that different than Roethlisberger the raper.

better days

02-01-2015, 12:27 AM

the only reason the int numbers aren't higher is because he doesn't throw the ball to covered players, AND he's typically so inacurate it's often not just out of the reach of the WR but the DB. Int numbers aren't everything.

19 TD's in 14 games is something.

I don't think Trent Edwards ever had 19 TDs in a 16 game season.

And YES ONLY 12 INTS is also something.

NOT RANCID.

sudzy

02-01-2015, 04:21 AM

oh boy...

https://i.imgflip.com/cobb6.gif

I'm bumping this, because this is the problem that all the "EJ could still be the QB of the future" are ignoring. Throws like this were way to common. Even on screen pass, EJ would be way off target.

YardRat

02-01-2015, 04:54 AM

It's a bad throw, but that specific example looks more like a result of not being on the same page...EJ threw down the hash in the direction Wood was headed before he cut across. Not excusing EJ by any means, just don't believe it's simply a matter of an off-target pass.

sudzy

02-01-2015, 06:42 AM

Buckets

02-01-2015, 07:17 AM

NO!!!

better days

02-01-2015, 08:04 AM

When Rex & Roman give up on EJ, so will I.

But not before then. I saw Steve Young look God awful in Tampa before he got GOOD Coaching.

swiper

02-01-2015, 09:06 AM

LOL @ EJ Manuel being compared to Steve Young.

Mace

02-01-2015, 11:43 AM

I think the way Roman used Smith in SF, and KC uses him now, is the better formula for EJ to build from. Short passes, quick reads, throw in the occasional run. EJ needs to start somewhere, and if he can't succeed in a Smith-style offense his howitzer arm is a non-issue unless he improves drastically on his accuracy and awareness in the pocket, not to mention reading defenses. IMO considering those weaknesses, if you tailor the gameplan for his downfield throws you might as well tie an anchor to him and watch him sink. Cut him now, because it's extremely unlikely he's going to crash out of the gate this season and all of sudden be light years better than he has in the past.

Easiest way to compare Smith to Manuel is to say both were spread QB's who struggled transitioning to quick read, west coast pro style offense, and bounced through multiple OC's early.

It's also easier for some people to hope Manuel is "just" a game manager, but if you look at Smith though, he's refined it to an art, compared to other game manager QB's the teams have to work around instead of using as a weapon. "Just" a game manager can be a glorious thing.

No clue if that evolution is possible with Manuel, but I'd be happier if I found out he was practicing with Alex Smith in the offseason. He's not though, so it goes back to crapshoot.

WagonCircler

02-01-2015, 12:26 PM

BillsImpossible

02-01-2015, 12:38 PM

Cut.

better days

02-01-2015, 01:01 PM

EJ = Trent Edwards. Period.

An inaccurate pussy who runs out of bounds one yard shy of the first down marker and who is terrified of throwing downfield or into traffic because he knows how inaccurate he is.

He is Captain Checkdown Jr.

Orton retired. That is who you were talking about right?

Or maybe both Orton & EJ were told to play that way by the IDIOTS Coaching the team.

better days

02-01-2015, 01:04 PM

LOL @ EJ Manuel being compared to Steve Young.

YES I compared EJ to Steve Young in TAMPA!

Not after Young got GOOD Coaching in San Francisco.

You would have said the same about Young if you saw him in Tampa that you say about EJ.

swiper

02-01-2015, 01:39 PM

YES I compared EJ to Steve Young in TAMPA!

Not after Young got GOOD Coaching in San Francisco.

You would have said the same about Young if you saw him in Tampa that you say about EJ.

I DID see him in Tampa plenty. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH COACHING. HE JUST TOOK SEVEN YRS TO DEVELOP. THAT IS WHO HE IS. I HAVE POSTED THIS HERE MANY TIMES. HE IS NOT EJ MANUEL. EVERYONE KNEW THAT YOUNG WAS AND WOULD GOOD. ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD POINT ANY OF IT ON COACHING. COACHING HAD ZERO TO DO WITH IT. JUST ASK YOUNG HIMSELF.

ANYONE WHO THINKS EJ MANUEL WILL FOLLOW A PATH SIMILAR TO THAT OF YOUNG IS AN IDIOT.

WagonCircler

02-01-2015, 01:44 PM

Orton retired. That is who you were talking about right?

Or maybe both Orton & EJ were told to play that way by the IDIOTS Coaching the team.

Same old rainbows and lollipops.

Here's a news flash. Orton was a terrible QB, but he sent EJ's pathetic ass to the bench, and kept him there for the rest of the season.

The idiots are people who think EJ has any value as a QB in this league. He's ****ing horrendous, and everyone with a brain who writes or talks about he NFL knows that Buffalo has NO QB. You look at any list of team by team needs, and Buffalo's is QB, 100% of the time.

swiper

02-01-2015, 01:48 PM

better days

02-01-2015, 01:52 PM

I DID see him in Tampa plenty. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH COACHING. HE JUST TOOK SEVEN YRS TO DEVELOP. THAT IS WHO HE IS. I HAVE POSTED THIS HERE MANY TIMES. HE IS NOT EJ MANUEL. EVERYONE KNEW THAT YOUNG WAS AND WOULD GOOD. ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD POINT ANY OF IT ON COACHING. COACHING HAD ZERO TO DO WITH IT. JUST ASK YOUNG HIMSELF.

ANYONE WHO THINKS EJ MANUEL WILL FOLLOW A PATH SIMILAR TO THAT OF YOUNG IS AN IDIOT.

Well, OBVIOUSLY, NOT EVERYONE knew what Young would become or the Bucs would not have traded him. IDIOT.

And YES, GOOD COACHING/system that suited his talent in San Francisco is the reason Young became a HOF QB

better days

02-01-2015, 01:55 PM

Well I suspect all the EJ circle-jerk team here can all try and explain their way out of their paper bag when this coaching regime dumps Manuel. Which despite their recent veiled support is very likely they will do the minute they can get someone better.

NOBODY is saying the Coaching staff will not dump EJ after they make their judgement of him.

NOBODY is saying EJ will become a pro bowl player, rational fans are in wait & see mode on EJ.

YardRat

02-01-2015, 01:57 PM

Uh-oh. Caps lock. "Is thing on? 'Cause it's about to be!"

swiper

02-01-2015, 01:58 PM

Well, OBVIOUSLY, NOT EVERYONE knew what Young would become or the Bucs would not have traded him.

No. Not one idiot. Two. You and John McKay.

And YES, GOOD COACHING/system that suited his talent in San Francisco is the reason Young became a HOF QB

Coaching had ZERO with how Steve Young turned out. Crawl back under your rock now.

better days

02-01-2015, 02:02 PM

No. Not one idiot. Two. You and John McKay.

Coaching had ZERO with how Steve Young turned out. Crawl back under your rock now.

LMAO at you.

The 49ers with Walsh as HC are regarded as having some of the BEST Coaching in NFL History. IDIOT.

Just proves what an IDIOT you are to dismiss the Coaching Young received in regards to his development.

WagonCircler

02-01-2015, 02:23 PM

LMAO at you.

The 49ers with Walsh as HC are regarded as having some of the BEST Coaching in NFL History. IDIOT.

Just proves what an IDIOT you are to dismiss the Coaching Young received in regards to his development.

Steve Young could never have become as good as he was without his God given talent. Coaching can help to improve upon natural talent, but it can't replace it.

EJ lacks the accuracy gene. No coach can implant one of those.

sudzy

02-01-2015, 02:29 PM

We had this argument last off season. We had this argument with Trent, JP, Rob and the next guy the Bills reach on and try to sell as the savior. Some people can't get enough of the Kool-Aid.

17273

sudzy

02-01-2015, 02:33 PM

Can't wait for more of this
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cDL3wGfCDDo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

djjimkelly

02-01-2015, 02:50 PM

Can't wait for more of this

what nfl qb hasnt thrown a pick 6 give it a rest

we had a terrible offensive coach who ej went 6-8 under

i think ej is gonna surpirse next year and if he doesnt at least we know for sure because 6-8 with marone as your HC isnt bad

DraftBoy

02-01-2015, 03:09 PM

So we are now at the cherry picking of stats portion of the off-season. Good to know.

The Jokeman

02-01-2015, 03:23 PM

what nfl qb hasnt thrown a pick 6 give it a rest

we had a terrible offensive coach who ej went 6-8 under

i think ej is gonna surpirse next year and if he doesnt at least we know for sure because 6-8 with marone as your HC isnt bad

but Mike Glennon is a better QB but he's only gone 5-13 as a starter in Tampa Bay. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GlenMi00.htm Yes, I am teasing about getting Glennon as I don't get why he's gotten as much love as he has here.

I'm in the pro EJ debate but I still wouldn't be against bringing in another QB (or 2) to compete with EJ next year. My list isn't that surprising as mentioned them all in previous posts but for those that are keeping a tally they'd be the following: Nick Foles, Sam Bradford, Christian Ponder, Colt McCoy and Blaine Gabbert. Then I'd look to draft someone in Round 3 or later.

swiper

02-01-2015, 08:45 PM

So we are now at the cherry picking of stats portion of the off-season. Good to know.

No the magical thinking part. The homers here are sickening.

swiper

02-01-2015, 08:47 PM

Well, OBVIOUSLY, NOT EVERYONE knew what Young would become or the Bucs would not have traded him. IDIOT.

And YES, GOOD COACHING/system that suited his talent in San Francisco is the reason Young became a HOF QB

Hey. Get back to us when you're old enough to start wiping your own ass after you take a dump instead of having momma do it for you. Because an adult cannot possibly be as stupid as what you post.

better days

02-02-2015, 08:44 AM

Hey. Get back to us when you're old enough to start wiping your own ass after you take a dump instead of having momma do it for you. Because an adult cannot possibly be as stupid as what you post.

Nice, INSULT people because you CAN'T WIN an argument.

You are an IDIOT not worth arguing with.

swiper

02-02-2015, 08:52 AM

LOL. I won the argument.

IlluminatusUIUC

02-02-2015, 08:54 AM

I think the way Roman used Smith in SF, and KC uses him now, is the better formula for EJ to build from. Short passes, quick reads, throw in the occasional run. EJ needs to start somewhere, and if he can't succeed in a Smith-style offense his howitzer arm is a non-issue unless he improves drastically on his accuracy and awareness in the pocket, not to mention reading defenses. IMO considering those weaknesses, if you tailor the gameplan for his downfield throws you might as well tie an anchor to him and watch him sink. Cut him now, because it's extremely unlikely he's going to crash out of the gate this season and all of sudden be light years better than he has in the past.

If he's going to sink, he's going to sink. But IMO it's a better option to ask him to hit deep occasionally then to ask him to hit short repeatedly. Last night, Brady basically showed the ultimate form of the short/accurate throw offense. I think his Y/A was less than 6 or something. He needed to place every single football into the tiniest window because there was always someone crashing in from the other side. I don't think you can ask EJ to hit a half-dozen tight windows per drive.

better days

02-02-2015, 11:42 AM

LOL. I won the argument.

NO, you did not win any argument IDIOT.

swiper

02-02-2015, 02:17 PM

NO, you did not win any argument IDIOT.

I certainly did. Homer.

better days

02-02-2015, 02:25 PM

I certainly did. Homer.

NO, you did NOT IDIOT!

ONLY an IDIOT would dismiss the Coaching Steve Young received in San Francisco, as if that did not play a big part in his development into a HOF QB.

swiper

02-02-2015, 02:49 PM

The title of this thread is Manning is money. My point was Eli is the better QB between him & his brother. I don't think that makes me ignorant or foolish.

LINK (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/216554-Manning-is-MONEY/page6?highlight=betterdays)

Yes, the Pats* have Brady, but the one thing being overlooked by everyone is SPEED.

The Bills have MUCH MORE speed than the Pats* on Offense, Defense & special teams.

Wilfork will be dragging his fat as by the start of the 3rd qtr.

And speaking of special teams, the Bills have MUCH Better special teams than the Pats* do.

LINK (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/220396-I-Think-The-Bills-Are-Going-To-Win/page2?highlight=betterdays)

swiper

02-02-2015, 02:55 PM

NO, you did NOT IDIOT!

ONLY an IDIOT would dismiss the Coaching Steve Young received in San Francisco, as if that did not play a big part in his development into a HOF QB.

Can you please say idiot a few more times, then PM a few more times and say this again:

02-02-2015 09:45 AM
better days (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php/34014-better-days)

bite me

You clearly have an empty space between your ears with a dying desire to fit in and an incapability of knowing anything about what you're trying to speak on. So shut up and go away.

better days

02-02-2015, 02:56 PM

LINK (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/216554-Manning-is-MONEY/page6?highlight=betterdays)

LINK (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/220396-I-Think-The-Bills-Are-Going-To-Win/page2?highlight=betterdays)

Well, I don't get your point.

At this point Eli is BETTER than his brother even if his team finished worse than Peyton's last year.

Peyton Manning had a bad year on a GOOD team.

And I was RIGHT about the Bills having BETTER Special Teams than the Pats*

And Wilfork is a shadow of his former self. He can still clog the middle but he can't move like he used to.

swiper

02-02-2015, 02:58 PM

Kid. Give the laptop back to your mom, would you please?

Mr. Pink

02-02-2015, 07:24 PM

The Jokeman

02-02-2015, 07:35 PM

Eli is barely an upgrade over JP Losman, he just got put on a better team.

Turnover machine.

Probably the worst QB to win a Superbowl since Trent Dilfer.

Wait, he won two that's right! So did Jim Plunkett.

Oh come on now Eli is a whole lot better than JP ever was. JP was a throw it 80 yards and let Lee Evans catch it and all he could do. In terms if worst QB to win a Super Bowl. Joe Namath is one of the most over rated QBs in the history of the league but gets much love because of his "guarantee" and he was on the first AFL to defeat a NFL team in a Super Bowl he's applauded as being one of the all time greats.