Sam Bradford Seeking Trade

[Mouldsie]

Also, Les Snead would never be my GM

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25072771/sam-bradford-may-seek-trade-rams-gm-snead-wants-him-back



Bring him in and protect him and he can be very effective IMO. He would be my top target.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Can he play outside in Buffalo weather?

[more cowbell]

bleh...

That means the Bills would have to give up an asset PLUS pay him 13 million a year or so (what he is making this season...doubt he will want to take a pay cut)

That's a lot to invest in a guy who has been very unimpressive in a dome....who is injured more often than Rob Johnson...

[Jaybird]

tough call on a trade for him. Not sure you can give up value for an often injured QB. The salary for 1 year isn't the end of the world for me, we have cap room. I wouldn't give up more then a 5th or 6th

[Mr. Pink]

No one is going to trade for an oft injury average QB with a 16m or whatever stupid number his contract is.

St Louis is stuck with him and he with them.

[EDS]

bleh...

That means the Bills would have to give up an asset PLUS pay him 13 million a year or so (what he is making this season...doubt he will want to take a pay cut)

That's a lot to invest in a guy who has been very unimpressive in a dome....who is injured more often than Rob Johnson...

Generally agree, but if the high priced contract reduces the trade compensation a team like the Bills, with a fair amount of cap room, could take advantage of that. Not sure I would advocate for going after Bradford if a trade was required, but definitely something the Bills should explore at a minimum.

[swiper]

No one is going to trade for an oft injury average QB with a 16m or whatever stupid number his contract is.

St Louis is stuck with him and he with them.

Check the state of QBs in the NFL then reconsider this.

[Mr. Pink]

Check the state of QBs in the NFL then reconsider this.

There's only a handful of teams where Bradford might be an upgrade to the current QB.

Problem is, are you gonna wanna pay a dude 16m or whatever stupid number salary he has for a guy who if you're lucky will play 8 games?

Even protecting the guy doesn't matter, he barely got touched last year in a preseason game against Cleveland and bam, done for the year.

He's every bit as brittle as Kevin Kolb.

[Mouldsie]

There's only a handful of teams where Bradford might be an upgrade to the current QB.

Problem is, are you gonna wanna pay a dude 16m or whatever stupid number salary he has for a guy who if you're lucky will play 8 games?

Even protecting the guy doesn't matter, he barely got touched last year in a preseason game against Cleveland and bam, done for the year.

He's every bit as brittle as Kevin Kolb.

He'd be an absolute upgrade for:
Buffalo (worst QB situation in the NFL)
Tennessee
Tampa Bay
NYJ
Cleveland
Houston

Arguably:
Washington
Cincinnati
Jacksonville (never happening but Bortles has a ways to go)
Kansas City
Chicago (chemistry reasons and fan relations)
Arizona


There is not much out there. If he's trying to force his way out of STL I'd make a call.

And yes I'd pay him that $13m base salary on a 1 year deal as he's an impending FA and I have a team that is built to win right now if it can get competent QB play. We have 29m in cap space.

[Ingtar33]

he's also a step up from EJ, and this team is REALLY hurting for QB.

I'd say give the rams a 5th and renegotiate Bradford's last year (16mil) into a 1 year extension

[Mr. Pink]

he's also a step up from EJ, and this team is REALLY hurting for QB.

I'd say give the rams a 5th and renegotiate Bradford's last year (16mil) into a 1 year extension

And why would Bradford renegotiate unless your one year extension is giving him major bucks guaranteed?

[Ingtar33]

And why would Bradford renegotiate unless your one year extension is giving him major bucks guaranteed?

same reason every player renegotiates. more money NOW. He's due to make 13 mil this year, give him all 13 mil on signing for the extension, then give him a base salary of 3mil this year and 7mil next year. he makes 10 more mil, 13 immediately, has a contract not so back-loaded it will hurt the team next year, furthermore if he plays lights out, the bills will have incentive to sign him to another extension NEXT off-season to bring that possible cap number down.

Its a win/win for both sides. we'd get him for 9.5mil this year (granted 14mil the year after) have some assurance that he's still under contract if he comes in and takes the league by storm (who has he EVER had to throw to?), furthermore it give Sam some $$ in his pocket and the bills some stability at qb for more then one season.

[Night Train]

I just watched Les Snead speaking on NFL Network at Indy this afternoon say the exact opposite...that Bradford is his QB.

[Skooby]

I just watched Les Snead speaking on NFL Network at Indy this afternoon say the exact opposite...that Bradford is his QB.

Yeah, publically supporting current players is normal but when it comes down to brass tacks....

[Night Train]

I'd look at Bradford if he were a UFA but actually trading for him ?

It's like buying a lemon automobile, knowing it's going to be in the shop a lot when you depend on it. Then you're always driving a bad loaner ( backup QB ) .

[feldspar]

I doubt Bradford will tear the same ACL for the 3rd time. Maybe he wasn't ready to come back yet this year, and that's why it was torn again? I don't know and couldn't know, but if he clears medical, I say the Bills should aggressively pursue a trade if Bradford is trying to force one.

I doubt the Bills could do better, and we aren't going anywhere without a QB, dispite having a talented roster for the most part.

[DraftBoy]

Only if he agrees to renegotiate his deal.

[OpIv37]

No.

We can't afford to give up a pick for a question mark. We are better off signing one of the FA bums for nothing and saving the pick and cap space.

[yordad]

Explore this option he is the best "available" qb.

[OpIv37]

Explore this option he is the best "available" qb.

The problem is that being the best available and being good are two different things.

The difference between Bradford and someone like Mccown is not worth nearly what it would cost to get Bradford

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I see it as a normal posturing from Bradford camp.

[yordad]

The problem is that being the best available and being good are two different things.

The difference between Bradford and someone like Mccown is not worth nearly what it would cost to get Bradford
I disagree. It is absolutely free to explore and I don't know what either will cost.

[ParanoidAndroid]

How badly does he want out? Would he be willing to re-negotiate his contract in order to do so? In that case, he would likely have his pick of several teams willing to take a chance on him. I'd like that to be the Bills. I think he's every bit as good as Eli Manning if he stays healthy.

[Mike]

No.

We can't afford to give up a pick for a question mark. We are better off signing one of the FA bums for nothing and saving the pick and cap space.

Just about every pick is a question mark.

[swiper]

He's been fragile in St. Louis. He'd be downright brittle in Buffalo.

[Historian]

It seems to me that this team is built to compete in the post season with one glaring weakness: no QB.

I would do what it took to get there, while this defense is hot.

And I couldn't think of a better QB for EJ to learn from, save for Manning.

[better days]

The Rams are not going to keep Bradford at his current contract numbers.

Any team that wants him just has to wait for the Rams to cut him.

[Forward_Lateral]

7th round pick, at most.

[Patrick76777]

I know that there are a lot of basement GM’s who would hate the idea of this move, but I can tell you right now, that they’re all foolish. The Bills have to make this happen and they have to make it happen now. You can’t win in this league without having a very good or great QB. Bradford is a former 1st overall draft pick, meaning that he is very talented. He’s 27 years old. He’s played 4 years and besides for a tough sophomore year, he has showed progression. 59 TD’s to 38 Int’s, 15 of those coming in his rookie year. He was 14/4 before he got hurt in 2013.

And ACL’s are not an “injury prone” injury. QB’s can come back from that. It’s not like he has concussion issues.

Guys with this kind of talent are not available often. St. Louis is stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can swoop him and basically steal this guy from this team.

Fact: Football fans way overvalue draft picks.

After another poor year because of lackluster QB play, everyone will be begging for us to use our first round pick on a QB in 2016. But here we are, we can get this guy right now.

We’re foolish if we don’t give this a chance. What are the other options???

This reminds me a lot of the Drew Brees thing. Coming off a huge injury, Miami passed on him and he went to New Orleans.

Make this happen!!!!


I’m not getting into a back and forth argument on this, I’ve said what I came to say. This needs to happen.

[Skooby]

I know that there are a lot of basement GM’s who would hate the idea of this move, but I can tell you right now, that they’re all foolish. The Bills have to make this happen and they have to make it happen now. You can’t win in this league without having a very good or great QB. Bradford is a former 1st overall draft pick, meaning that he is very talented. He’s 27 years old. He’s played 4 years and besides for a tough sophomore year, he has showed progression. 59 TD’s to 38 Int’s, 15 of those coming in his rookie year. He was 14/4 before he got hurt in 2013.

And ACL’s are not an “injury prone” injury. QB’s can come back from that. It’s not like he has concussion issues.

Guys with this kind of talent are not available often. St. Louis is stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can swoop him and basically steal this guy from this team.

Fact: Football fans way overvalue draft picks.

After another poor year because of lackluster QB play, everyone will be begging for us to use our first round pick on a QB in 2016. But here we are, we can get this guy right now.

We’re foolish if we don’t give this a chance. What are the other options???

This reminds me a lot of the Drew Brees thing. Coming off a huge injury, Miami passed on him and he went to New Orleans.

Make this happen!!!!


I’m not getting into a back and forth argument on this, I’ve said what I came to say. This needs to happen.

Thank for stopping by Patrick, good to see you & I couldn't agree more with you. Happy New Year!!

[OpIv37]

I know that there are a lot of basement GM’s who would hate the idea of this move, but I can tell you right now, that they’re all foolish. The Bills have to make this happen and they have to make it happen now. You can’t win in this league without having a very good or great QB. Bradford is a former 1st overall draft pick, meaning that he is very talented. He’s 27 years old. He’s played 4 years and besides for a tough sophomore year, he has showed progression. 59 TD’s to 38 Int’s, 15 of those coming in his rookie year. He was 14/4 before he got hurt in 2013.

And ACL’s are not an “injury prone” injury. QB’s can come back from that. It’s not like he has concussion issues.

Guys with this kind of talent are not available often. St. Louis is stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can swoop him and basically steal this guy from this team.

Fact: Football fans way overvalue draft picks.

After another poor year because of lackluster QB play, everyone will be begging for us to use our first round pick on a QB in 2016. But here we are, we can get this guy right now.

We’re foolish if we don’t give this a chance. What are the other options???

This reminds me a lot of the Drew Brees thing. Coming off a huge injury, Miami passed on him and he went to New Orleans.

Make this happen!!!!


I’m not getting into a back and forth argument on this, I’ve said what I came to say. This needs to happen.


We will STILL have lackluster QB play if we get Bradford and we will have to give up scarce resources to get him.
Buffalo is desperate for a qb but our desperation does not make a good qb available. This is nothing more than trying to make Bradford into something that he's not to pretend he fills our need.

[Patrick76777]

We will STILL have lackluster QB play if we get Bradford and we will have to give up scarce resources to get him.
Buffalo is desperate for a qb but our desperation does not make a good qb available. This is nothing more than trying to make Bradford into something that he's not to pretend he fills our need.

There hasn't been a QB made that would make you happy. We all know this. So arguing with you is a huge waste time.

You live in a fantasy world as it pertains to football.

[OpIv37]

There hasn't been a QB made that would make you happy. We all know this. So arguing with you is a huge waste time.

You live in a fantasy world as it pertains to football.
No, I live in the real world and the reality is that Bradford isn't the answer.

And you say that no qb will make me happy, but none of the QB's the Bills have had since Kelly have gotten the job done. So I guess I was right to not be happy about them.

[Skooby]

There hasn't been a QB made that would make you happy. We all know this. So arguing with you is a huge waste time.

You live in a fantasy world as it pertains to football.

He has high (unrealistic) expectations, it's been ongoing.

[Skooby]

No, I live in the real world and the reality is that Bradford isn't the answer.

And you say that no qb will make me happy, but none of the QB's the Bills have had since Kelly have gotten the job done. So I guess I was right to not be happy about them.

Would a currently healthy Bradford be better than what we have now ??

[Historian]

It's not about you, OP.

It's about making the best of a bad situation....all while the clock is running.

It's not like there are a lot of good options.

[Albany,n.y.]

We will STILL have lackluster QB play if we get Bradford and we will have to give up scarce resources to get him.
Buffalo is desperate for a qb but our desperation does not make a good qb available. This is nothing more than trying to make Bradford into something that he's not to pretend he fills our need.

If we want to be a Super Bowl contender next year, Bradford is probably the only QB available who could get us there & if giving up a 2 or 3 in 2015 & a conditional high pick in 2016 gets us the only QB who we can actually think Super Bowl with, that's worth a shot. The team is built to win now with a QB & OL upgrade with this defense & if Bradford gets hurt again the 2016 pick isn't that high, probably a 3 or 4 instead of a 2 and we still have a #1 to get another QB in the draft.

If you're content on going into the season with no shot at the Super Bowl-which is the goal of every season, then save the picks and be happy being in playoff contention in December with slim to no chance of advancing deep in the playoffs.

I don't get the scarce resources comment. STL won't get Darius or any Williams, they'll get 2 picks, one in 2015 & a conditional based on Bradford's performance in 2015. That's not scarce resources for a gamble on greatness. Now if you don't think much of Bradford, and you just don't want him regardless of price, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think most of us have the attitude I want to win now.

[Patrick76777]

No, I live in the real world .


No, no you don't. Not as it relates to football at least. You'll realize it someday.

[OpIv37]

Would a currently healthy Bradford be better than what we have now ??

Yes but that's the wrong question. The right question is "is the difference between Bradford and what we have now worth the resources we would have to give up to get him?"

And the answer is no. That cap space and draft pick(s) should be used on the OL and TE. That would go much further than spending it on a qb that we will end up cutting in 2 years.

[Mr. Pink]

same reason every player renegotiates. more money NOW. He's due to make 13 mil this year, give him all 13 mil on signing for the extension, then give him a base salary of 3mil this year and 7mil next year. he makes 10 more mil, 13 immediately, has a contract not so back-loaded it will hurt the team next year, furthermore if he plays lights out, the bills will have incentive to sign him to another extension NEXT off-season to bring that possible cap number down.

Its a win/win for both sides. we'd get him for 9.5mil this year (granted 14mil the year after) have some assurance that he's still under contract if he comes in and takes the league by storm (who has he EVER had to throw to?), furthermore it give Sam some $$ in his pocket and the bills some stability at qb for more then one season.

So you're gonna give a guy 13m up front even though he has a history of injuries and didn't play at all last year and only 7 games played in 2013?

Just sounds like bad business to me.

[OpIv37]

No, no you don't. Not as it relates to football at least. You'll realize it someday.

Lmao. Every year, the team looks like crap so I say they look like crap. And people like you argue with me. Then the team plays like crap and people like you still can't admit that I was right.

[OpIv37]

If we want to be a Super Bowl contender next year, Bradford is probably the only QB available who could get us there & if giving up a 2 or 3 in 2015 & a conditional high pick in 2016 gets us the only QB who we can actually think Super Bowl with, that's worth a shot. The team is built to win now with a QB & OL upgrade with this defense & if Bradford gets hurt again the 2016 pick isn't that high, probably a 3 or 4 instead of a 2 and we still have a #1 to get another QB in the draft.

If you're content on going into the season with no shot at the Super Bowl-which is the goal of every season, then save the picks and be happy being in playoff contention in December with slim to no chance of advancing deep in the playoffs.

I don't get the scarce resources comment. STL won't get Darius or any Williams, they'll get 2 picks, one in 2015 & a conditional based on Bradford's performance in 2015. That's not scarce resources for a gamble on greatness. Now if you don't think much of Bradford, and you just don't want him regardless of price, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think most of us have the attitude I want to win now.

You don't get the scarce resources comment? We are already down a first round pick in 2015. And while we have a lot of cap space, Bradford counts $16 million against the cap. That's over half our available space right there.

And there is no QB available right now who is capable of getting us to the SB this year. That's the unfortunate reality.

[Mace]

I'd say there's no point in spending anything to pick up oft injured, oft confused (many diff OC's) well paid good weather QB Bradford.

And I'll guarantee that wherever he ends up this season, at the end of it you'll be happy we didn't. Make book on it, put it in your sig, bookmark it, tattoo it. No doubt. Take it to the bank.

Idea Killer : http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradSa00.htm

Get him and you're starting Manuel anyway. Let St. Louis keep worrying about him.

[Skooby]

Yes but that's the wrong question. The right question is "is the difference between Bradford and what we have now worth the resources we would have to give up to get him?"

And the answer is no. That cap space and draft pick(s) should be used on the OL and TE. That would go much further than spending it on a qb that we will end up cutting in 2 years.

We could probably get him for a 5th round pick & take on his 1 year contract without a major issue, just to see how he plays. If he plays great, then we workout a new deal otherwise nothing ventured....

[OpIv37]

You're crazy if you think St Louis is gonna give him up for a 5th.

[Patrick76777]

Lmao. Every year, the team looks like crap so I say they look like crap. And people like you argue with me. Then the team plays like crap and people like you still can't admit that I was right.


I don't argue with you. We have looked like crap forever. Because we don't have a QB. And we should use every resource available to find one. Because it doesn't matter how good the rest of your team is, if you don't have a QB. So draft one, trade for one, sign one and let them compete. Then do the same next year, then do the same the following year. Do so until one of the guys you grab turns out. Because I can't deal with the terrible play anymore. And we have a Championship caliber defense and to waste that trying to groom a rookie or EJ doesn't appeal to me.

We're not going to be good until we have a guy, and while I guess I can respect your opinion that he's not good enough for you, it's a guy who has talent, was once very highly thought off and who has played in this league. To not kick the tires, is completely foolish. Especially since we've been terrible for 15 years.

[Skooby]

You're crazy if you think St Louis is gonna give him up for a 5th.

With that size contract, what do you think it will take without St. Louis having to pay ?? Won't this eliminate their entire cap hit if he's traded ?? Those are major factors considering he's coming off a major injury with limited previous success.

[feldspar]

I don't argue with you. We have looked like crap forever. Because we don't have a QB. And we should use every resource available to find one. Because it doesn't matter how good the rest of your team is, if you don't have a QB. So draft one, trade for one, sign one and let them compete. Then do the same next year, then do the same the following year. Do so until one of the guys you grab turns out. Because I can't deal with the terrible play anymore. And we have a Championship caliber defense and to waste that trying to groom a rookie or EJ doesn't appeal to me.

We're not going to be good until we have a guy, and while I guess I can respect your opinion that he's not good enough for you, it's a guy who has talent, was once very highly thought off and who has played in this league. To not kick the tires, is completely foolish. Especially since we've been terrible for 15 years.

Exactly.

[Mr. Pink]

I'd say there's no point in spending anything to pick up oft injured, oft confused (many diff OC's) well paid good weather QB Bradford.

And I'll guarantee that wherever he ends up this season, at the end of it you'll be happy we didn't. Make book on it, put it in your sig, bookmark it, tattoo it. No doubt. Take it to the bank.

Idea Killer : http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradSa00.htm

Get him and you're starting Manuel anyway. Let St. Louis keep worrying about him.

This is exactly it.

If you get Bradford, you need to get another QB anyway to play when he inevitably breaks his glass vagina...again.

Or, you're seeing EJ Manuel starting games anyway.

[OpIv37]

I don't argue with you. We have looked like crap forever. Because we don't have a QB. And we should use every resource available to find one. Because it doesn't matter how good the rest of your team is, if you don't have a QB. So draft one, trade for one, sign one and let them compete. Then do the same next year, then do the same the following year. Do so until one of the guys you grab turns out. Because I can't deal with the terrible play anymore. And we have a Championship caliber defense and to waste that trying to groom a rookie or EJ doesn't appeal to me.

We're not going to be good until we have a guy, and while I guess I can respect your opinion that he's not good enough for you, it's a guy who has talent, was once very highly thought off and who has played in this league. To not kick the tires, is completely foolish. Especially since we've been terrible for 15 years.

What's completely foolish is to keep setting ourselves back going after guys who aren't the answer. Remember the first we traded for Bledsoe? Trading back into the first round for Losman? All the dead cap we had to eat for Fitzpatrick?

All of those moves were failed attempts to find a qb and all of them had negative long term consequences. This is déjà vu.

[Patrick76777]

What's completely foolish is to keep setting ourselves back going after guys who aren't the answer. Remember the first we traded for Bledsoe? Trading back into the first round for Losman? All the dead cap we had to eat for Fitzpatrick?

All of those moves were failed attempts to find a qb and all of them had negative long term consequences. This is déjà vu.

So we're supposed to just wait for one to show up because we failed before? That's a defeatest approach.

You can't stop trying because you once failed.

[Patrick76777]

Until you get one, you're not going to be able to compete. So that should be the goal. At any cost. Because once you find one, you're set for 10 to 15 years.

And it's ok to change your mind. ;)

[Mr. Pink]

Until you get one, you're not going to be able to compete. So that should be the goal. At any cost. Because once you find one, you're set for 10 to 15 years.

And it's ok to change your mind. ;)

I don't disagree with this at all, but bringing in an overpriced injury riddled player is not a solution, imo.

Sure Bradford looked like he was turning the corner early in 2013 but now he hasn't played in a year and a half. Before looking like he was turning that corner he was a mediocre at best QB. With the time away from the game there's nothing to say he won't regress back to his former self and his former self wouldn't take this team any further than it got last year - that's if he can even stay healthy for an entire year.

Too much risk especially with his asinine contract...and restructuring him to give him some guaranteed money up front is equally asinine.

[Skooby]

I don't disagree with this at all, but bringing in an overpriced injury riddled player is not a solution, imo.

Sure Bradford looked like he was turning the corner early in 2013 but now he hasn't played in a year and a half. Before looking like he was turning that corner he was a mediocre at best QB. With the time away from the game there's nothing to say he won't regress back to his former self and his former self wouldn't take this team any further than it got last year - that's if he can even stay healthy for an entire year.

Too much risk especially with his asinine contract...and restructuring him to give him some guaranteed money up front is equally asinine.

Bradford is either ready for the next level or a bust, there's no in-between. EJ is no where in the realm of Bradford nor is Tuel, so right now we might be able to get a franchise QB with plenty of NFL experience or nobody. Right now, we have nobody & Manning / Brees won't be coming to Buffalo. We better take our chances and get a talented signal caller in here, there's no one else that can help us out there.

[Albany,n.y.]

I'd say there's no point in spending anything to pick up oft injured, oft confused (many diff OC's) well paid good weather QB Bradford.

And I'll guarantee that wherever he ends up this season, at the end of it you'll be happy we didn't. Make book on it, put it in your sig, bookmark it, tattoo it. No doubt. Take it to the bank.

Idea Killer : http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradSa00.htm


Get him and you're starting Manuel anyway. Let St. Louis keep worrying about him.

Here's someone with a pretty close career to Bradford's at the same point that Bradford's career is at. He also missed all of 1 season & and all but 2 games of the next one. Then he went 3 straight seasons never missing a game. Overall, just when people thought he was injury prone, he hit his peak.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SimmPh00.htm

[OpIv37]

So we're supposed to just wait for one to show up because we failed before? That's a defeatest approach.

You can't stop trying because you once failed.
You can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Lmao. Every year, the team looks like crap so I say they look like crap. And people like you argue with me. Then the team plays like crap and people like you still can't admit that I was right.
There's your problem. You're more interested in being right than anything else. Yes yes we've all heard you say that you're a Bills fan and rather be proven wrong blah blah blah, yet your actions show otherwise, consistently focusing on "I'm right".

Guess what? The universe doesn't revolve around you and nobody other than yourself gives a flying **** if you're right or not. And nobody gets any satisfaction out of you being wrong either. It's never been about you, but you can't ever see pass that.

[DraftBoy]

So you're gonna give a guy 13m up front even though he has a history of injuries and didn't play at all last year and only 7 games played in 2013?

Just sounds like bad business to me.

What's the risk though? You do the conversion as suggested by Ing and the cap is still completely in control. So the team loses $13 million, their profits will make up for it.

If (and its a massive if) he does stay healthy and plays well then its a steal.

I don't think its a bad idea if he's willing to renegotiate and I don't think Ingtar's suggestion in a bad one at all.

[Skooby]

What's the risk though? You do the conversion as suggested by Ing and the cap is still completely in control. So the team loses $13 million, their profits will make up for it.

If (and its a massive if) he does stay healthy and plays well then its a steal.

I don't think its a bad idea if he's willing to renegotiate and I don't think Ingtar's suggestion in a bad one at all.

No ****, it's common sense to me.

[Mr. Miyagi]

No ****, it's common sense to me.
I'd be shocked if the Bills haven't already been on the phone with St. Louis asking about what they'd want.

[WagonCircler]

Only if he agrees to renegotiate his deal.

The whole point of him asking for a trade is to negotiate a long term deal.

[OpIv37]

There's your problem. You're more interested in being right than anything else. Yes yes we've all heard you say that you're a Bills fan and rather be proven wrong blah blah blah, yet your actions show otherwise, consistently focusing on "I'm right".

Guess what? The universe doesn't revolve around you and nobody other than yourself gives a flying **** if you're right or not. And nobody gets any satisfaction out of you being wrong either. It's never been about you, but you can't ever see pass that.
He showed up out of nowhere and accused me of being in fantasy land. get a grip.

[cookie G]

You can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Doing the same thing over and over again?

Please.

Bledsoe was 12 years ago, Losman 10 years ago

In the past 10 years, this team used a single 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick on the position.

Maybe you think that's a lot of resources, but when you don't have a QB, many would call that neglect.

Speaking of doing the same things over and over again..

the 4th ranked D in the NFL is changing its defensive scheme....again..

[Skooby]

Doing the same thing over and over again?

Please.

Bledsoe was 12 years ago, Losman 10 years ago

In the past 10 years, this team used a single 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick on the position.

Maybe you think that's a lot of resources, but when you don't have a QB, many would call that neglect.

Speaking of doing the same things over and over again..

the 4th ranked D in the NFL is changing its defensive scheme....again..

Bingo!!

[OpIv37]

Doing the same thing over and over again?

Please.

Bledsoe was 12 years ago, Losman 10 years ago

In the past 10 years, this team used a single 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick on the position.

Maybe you think that's a lot of resources, but when you don't have a QB, many would call that neglect.

Speaking of doing the same things over and over again..

the 4th ranked D in the NFL is changing its defensive scheme....again..

Giving up a pick in a year when we have no 1st AND half of our available cap space for is a lot of resources. Far too much for Bradford.

If we make that trade, it's going to set this team back 2 years.

And it's going after other team's junk, just like Fitz, Bledsoe, Kolb, Holcomb, Orton.... It's reaching to find a QB when the one we need isn't available, just like Fitz, Losman, Edwards, EJ....

So, yeah, it is doing the same thing over and over.

[Mr. Pink]

What's the risk though? You do the conversion as suggested by Ing and the cap is still completely in control. So the team loses $13 million, their profits will make up for it.

If (and its a massive if) he does stay healthy and plays well then its a steal.

I don't think its a bad idea if he's willing to renegotiate and I don't think Ingtar's suggestion in a bad one at all.

There's no risk for the fans, obviously...but there is risk for the GM who okays the deal, risk for the owner who pays the deal and risk for the coach who has to sink or swim with a guy who's made of glass.

Profits will stay the same regardless of if Bradford is brought in or it ends up being some other guy.

[jamze132]

Giving up a pick in a year when we have no 1st AND half of our available cap space for is a lot of resources. Far too much for Bradford.

If we make that trade, it's going to set this team back 2 years.

And it's going after other team's junk, just like Fitz, Bledsoe, Kolb, Holcomb, Orton.... It's reaching to find a QB when the one we need isn't available, just like Fitz, Losman, Edwards, EJ....

So, yeah, it is doing the same thing over and over.

The way I see it, the draft is a crapshoot every year. We also don't have a 1st rounder this year and out first pick doesn't come until the second half of the 2nd round, which means this draft is crap for us anyways. I have no problem trading any of our picks this year for Bradford. If he has success, we turned this crapfest of a draft for us into the turning point for the franchise. I really see no harm in trading a pick this year for Sam Bradford.

[Mike]

There's no risk for the fans, obviously...but there is risk for the GM who okays the deal, risk for the owner who pays the deal and risk for the coach who has to sink or swim with a guy who's made of glass.

Profits will stay the same regardless of if Bradford is brought in or it ends up being some other guy.

It all depends on the deal itself!
Rams want to keep him which says a lot. Simultaneously, Bradford wants a longer term deal. Each party wants to protect their long term (Bradford with a deal, Rams with cap$)

In the end they meet somewhere in the middle:
3yr $30M deal with $18M guaranteed & incentives (he is already scheduled to make $13m this year)

Rams might be willing to deal him for a conditional pick if they can't a deal done. They are in a tough spot becuasue of $16m cap hit & having downside both if he doesn't pan out (Lost 16m) or if Bradford plays great now they really have to pay him or someone else will.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Going back to college, Bradford has had 5 major injuries in the last 6 seasons. Now I'm willing to take a chance on a guy with an injury history if he comes cheap, but Bradford will not come cheap. I'd rather use our FA money on the line and take a stab at another QB in the draft, or trade for someone on a capped rookie contract like Glennon.

[swiper]

The whole point of him asking for a trade is to negotiate a long term deal.

The problem with that is no one (still) knows exactly how good he is or isn't - his true worth is incredibly hard to figure out.

[Patrick76777]

You can't keep doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Actually you can. Sure if I slam my head into my desk over and over, I can expect the same results, but when it comes to evaluating football talent and making trades, different results are expected.

[swiper]

Going back to college, Bradford has had 5 major injuries in the last 6 seasons. Now I'm willing to take a chance on a guy with an injury history if he comes cheap, but Bradford will not come cheap. I'd rather use our FA money on the line and take a stab at another QB in the draft, or trade for someone on a capped rookie contract like Glennon.

Again, I think you have to look at the current state of QBs in the NFL.

And I notice you over-value Glennon quite a bit in your postings. He's really not good.

And I'm not saying Bradford is the answer or that the Bills should blindly throw money at him. I'm saying there are no viable other choices. Glennon is not one.

And one thing I think you fail to factor in is there are teams like the Jets standing side-by-side with the Bills looking to grab the best piece of garbage off the heap and give him playing time. This is why a player of the quality of a Josh McNown can parade around like he's being picky.

The more I read on this topic, the more I think the best course of action for Whaley to take is to trade for a QB that may be sitting there for not too much cost to the team. Cousins. Drew Stanton. Matt Schaub.

In that vane, how about another 7th round pick to Seattle to get Travaris Jackson back again? That would be a real classic OBD move and would surprise no one.

[Skooby]

Actually you can. Sure if I slam my head into my desk over and over, I can expect the same results, but when it comes to evaluating football talent and making trades, different results are expected.

Like every Bills fans does for 15 years straight after realizing we're not going anywhere again.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Again, I think you have to look at the current state of QBs in the NFL.

And I notice you over-value Glennon quite a bit in your postings. He's really not good.

I'm not over-valuing anyone. I'm balancing the chance a QB develops into something good vs the cost it would involve to get him. I think most people are overvaluing a guy's draft position. People are chucking out guys like Mark Sanchez, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, and Sam Bradford specifically because they were top 10 draft picks.

Let's throw out Glennon and Bradford's rate stats:

QB A: 58.8%, 211.8 Y/G, 1.52 TD/.79 INT per game, 83.7 career QB rating
QB B: 58.6%, 225.8 Y/G, 1.2 TD/.78 INT per game, 79.3 career QB rating

Why does one guy deserve sending a pick AND a $30 million dollar contract? Glennon is signed for two more years for less then $2 million total. If he could be shaken loose for simply a pick, that's a much better option IMO. Glennon does take more sacks, but he also has a stronger arm and has never appeared on the injury report.

He's a better risk to take IMO.


And I'm not saying Bradford is the answer or that the Bills should blindly throw money at him. I'm saying there are no viable other choices. Glennon is not one.


If there are no viable choices, we shouldn't make a big move just to make a big move. Take a longer look at the QBs in the draft then.


And one thing I think you fail to factor in is there are teams like the Jets standing side-by-side with the Bills looking to grab the best piece of garbage off the heap and give him playing time. This is why a player of the quality of a Josh McNown can parade around like he's being picky.

So? If the Jets go throw money at a terrible QB like McCown, that's great news.


The more I read on this topic, the more I think the best course of action for Whaley to take is to trade for a QB that may be sitting there for not too much cost to the team. Cousins. Drew Stanton. Matt Schaub.

That's exactly what I'm saying, except I'm saying it about Glennon as well. I can tolerate any of those three if the price was low.


In that vane, how about another 7th round pick to Seattle to get Travaris Jackson back again? That would be a real classic OBD move and would surprise no one.

Jackson is a UFA, we could sign him for free. I don't know why he'd leave Seattle again, but if he's willing then I am. Dumping him for Kolb was a catastrophe.

[Ingtar33]

So you're gonna give a guy 13m up front even though he has a history of injuries and didn't play at all last year and only 7 games played in 2013?

Just sounds like bad business to me.

It's football. It doesn't have to make good business sense. and it's CHEAP for a starting qb. in case you didn't notice Andy ****** Dalton is making 20mil/season, as is Jay Cutler. That's the going rate for a starting QB who might get you to the playoffs and might end up in a probowl once a blue moon. I would put Bradford at little lower level then Dalton, but don't you think for a minute the market isn't there for paying average quarterbacks gobs of money. Right now it's that type of market the demand is high and the supply low. I mean there are people actually talking up McNown and Colt McCoy, and both of those guys are certifiable bums.

[Skooby]

Sam was a #1 pick for a reason & if he stays healthy and continues to develop, he has a much higher ceiling. Obvious if clouds the statement but there's no real if about EJ not being NFL ready.

[better days]

Sam was a #1 pick for a reason & if he stays healthy and continues to develop, he has a much higher ceiling. Obvious if clouds the statement but there's no real if about EJ not being NFL ready.

Well, Jim Kelly & Rex Ryan have both said the system is very important that a QB plays in. A QB can look terrible in one system he is not suited for & great in a different one that does suit him.

I think it is more reasonable to expect EJ to play well in a system that suits him than it is to expect Bradford to stay healthy for any length of time.

[WagonCircler]

Sam was a #1 pick for a reason & if he stays healthy and continues to develop, he has a much higher ceiling. Obvious if clouds the statement but there's no real if about EJ not being NFL ready.

It's not that EJ isn't "NFL ready". That implies that he will be ready someday.

He won't. He lacks fundamental skills that can't be acquired.

[swiper]

It's not that EJ isn't "NFL ready". That implies that he will be ready someday.

He won't. He lacks fundamental skills that can't be acquired.

Well he may not, but because of the lack of other options, he's going to get one more try in a Bills uniform. Kinda makes me want to puke.

[Skooby]

It's not that EJ isn't "NFL ready". That implies that he will be ready someday.

He won't. He lacks fundamental skills that can't be acquired.

I never said he's going to be NFL ready.

[better days]

It's not that EJ isn't "NFL ready". That implies that he will be ready someday.

He won't. He lacks fundamental skills that can't be acquired.

Well, if EJ does win the starting job next season this post will make you look like a fool.

[swiper]

Well, if EJ does win the starting job next season this post will make you look like a fool.

He couldn't hold a candle to you in that category - even if that did happen.

[OpIv37]

The way I see it, the draft is a crapshoot every year. We also don't have a 1st rounder this year and out first pick doesn't come until the second half of the 2nd round, which means this draft is crap for us anyways. I have no problem trading any of our picks this year for Bradford. If he has success, we turned this crapfest of a draft for us into the turning point for the franchise. I really see no harm in trading a pick this year for Sam Bradford.
True, the draft is a crap shoot, but Bradford is a limited quantity too and I think it's highly unlikely that he could turn this franchise around. I think the odds are much stronger of using that pick to get an OL who gives us five good years.

[OpIv37]

Well, Jim Kelly & Rex Ryan have both said the system is very important that a QB plays in. A QB can look terrible in one system he is not suited for & great in a different one that does suit him.

I think it is more reasonable to expect EJ to play well in a system that suits him than it is to expect Bradford to stay healthy for any length of time.
I don't think it's reasonable at all to expect EJ to play well in any system. All of the pre-draft concerns about him have materialized and he's actually regressed on the field.

That being said, I don't think throwing limited resources at Bradford is the answer.

[Mace]

Here's someone with a pretty close career to Bradford's at the same point that Bradford's career is at. He also missed all of 1 season & and all but 2 games of the next one. Then he went 3 straight seasons never missing a game. Overall, just when people thought he was injury prone, he hit his peak.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SimmPh00.htm

Well, ok, he went 16 games for 3 years :
-22 td, 18 int, 53.7% comp, 78.1 rating
-22/20, 55.6%, 78.6
-21/22, 55.3, 74.6

That was a more forgiving QB era, in the modern one, well, those aren't brutal numbers to hope for out of Manuel, even if he's not good, and you'd be seeing him when Fair weather Bradford goes down anyway. Those completion percentage numbers are terrible for nowadays.

Regarding Bradford, I actually like him for a warm weather or dome team to take a shot on, even staying in St. Louis. Don't want cold weather questionable o-line us to be that team.

[BillsImpossible]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/st.-louis-rams/sam-bradford/

$13 million base salary with a $3.6 million signing bonus, or a $16.6 million cap hit.

For that kind of money, I'd rather sign a future Hall of Fame QB.

No trade necessary.

[BertSquirtgum]

If they can rework a new (prove you can play without getting hurt) contract..... Bradford would be a great option for the Bills.

[Skooby]

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/st.-louis-rams/sam-bradford/

$13 million base salary with a $3.6 million signing bonus, or a $16.6 million cap hit.

For that kind of money, I'd rather sign a future Hall of Fame QB.

No trade necessary.

That's why it won't cost too high a pick to obtain him.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Well, if EJ does win the starting job next season this post will make you look like a fool.

Winning the starting job is much different from performing as the starter.

You can't be that surprised that people have serious issues with EJ and think he will never pan out.

It's not like he has done anything to prove otherwise.

"He's only played x games" is in no way a resounding vote of confidence from the pro-EJ crowd either.

[cookie G]

Well, ok, he went 16 games for 3 years :
-22 td, 18 int, 53.7% comp, 78.1 rating
-22/20, 55.6%, 78.6
-21/22, 55.3, 74.6

That was a more forgiving QB era, in the modern one, well, those aren't brutal numbers to hope for out of Manuel, even if he's not good, and you'd be seeing him when Fair weather Bradford goes down anyway. Those completion percentage numbers are terrible for nowadays.

Regarding Bradford, I actually like him for a warm weather or dome team to take a shot on, even staying in St. Louis. Don't want cold weather questionable o-line us to be that team.


I have been concerns over his injury history as well. It is pretty hard not to have a concern there.

As far as his completion percentage or other stats thus far...eh..

I found this last night. From the 2011 season, each of his passes over 15 yards. It isn't a highlight reel, it shows the bad along with the good. And it is a pretty large sample. I watched some last night and some tonight.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RhLDkYravNA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I think people will have a difference of opinion if they watch it, but I saw a lot of dropped passes, slipping by WRs and turning the wrong way when the ball was in the air. I think I heard one of the announcers comment that the Rams were 2nd in the league in drops at over 13%. That will certainly drop your completion percentage.

I think there are more accurate deep throwers, especially his sideline throws, but even on some of them, the WR failed.

But other than that, the ball was pretty much being put where it needed to be, and often in a pretty tight window.

He certainly puts it on target far more than the Bills have seen in a while.

I watch that and I agree with Jaws at the end, How can you evaluate him without considering who he's throwing to?

As a quick aside, my son's HS team had a QB with a really good arm this year. Tall, lanky (a dead ringer for EJ when he was in uniform), I'd watch him flip the ball 40 yards without much effort.

In one game, they actually had to move him to WR in the 2nd half, because none of the WR's were catching the ball. He said his coach made the comment after the game, "we have one of the best QB's in the league, but if no one else can catch...he's being wasted".

I think there were 14 drops in that game. I'm sure the kid's stats looked terrible, but there is only so much he can do.

[Mace]

I have been concerns over his injury history as well. It is pretty hard not to have a concern there.

As far as his completion percentage or other stats thus far...eh..

I found this last night. From the 2011 season, each of his passes over 15 yards. It isn't a highlight reel, it shows the bad along with the good. And it is a pretty large sample. I watched some last night and some tonight.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RhLDkYravNA?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

I think people will have a difference of opinion if they watch it, but I saw a lot of dropped passes, slipping by WRs and turning the wrong way when the ball was in the air. I think I heard one of the announcers comment that the Rams were 2nd in the league in drops at over 13%. That will certainly drop your completion percentage.

I think there are more accurate deep throwers, especially his sideline throws, but even on some of them, the WR failed.

But other than that, the ball was pretty much being put where it needed to be, and often in a pretty tight window.

He certainly puts it on target far more than the Bills have seen in a while.

I watch that and I agree with Jaws at the end, How can you evaluate him without considering who he's throwing to?

As a quick aside, my son's HS team had a QB with a really good arm this year. Tall, lanky (a dead ringer for EJ when he was in uniform), I'd watch him flip the ball 40 yards without much effort.

In one game, they actually had to move him to WR in the 2nd half, because none of the WR's were catching the ball. He said his coach made the comment after the game, "we have one of the best QB's in the league, but if no one else can catch...he's being wasted".

I think there were 14 drops in that game. I'm sure the kid's stats looked terrible, but there is only so much he can do.

My honest thought on Bradford is that he was a perfectly fine QB, St. Louis mangled. They rolled him through too many OC's and new playbooks, being unable to protect him.

With a clean pocket most often or a prayer of a play, with some dependable system he can count on yearly, in a dome or warm weather, I think he'll bring home the bacon.

My comments on completion percentage were mostly in relating him to the post reminding me of Simms. They were more about Simms completion percentage. I think in the best conditions Bradford measures up a few percentage points into the 60's comfortably, and yes, his Rams situation affected it.

I'll say again, I like Bradford, his arm, even his accuracy. When unbattered he is decisive and sure as well. You won't get a difference of opinion from me on his receivers. Truth is, I am ever expecting him to suddenly become a deadly passer, and I don't think it's his fault he hasn't. His long ball to me reflects a lack of confidence.

I just don't think it happens in RWS behind a suspect line where it gets cold in a system designed for a handoff guy. Bradford needs to sling it with safe time in a system that caters to him in nice conditions, imho.

If I were Arizona I'd beef up that line and shuck Palmer for a younger Palmer and make sure no one gets near him, and I think they're rolling in promise.

Edit : Why not Buffalo ? They play in Arizona, and have Arians.

[feldspar]

I think people will have a difference of opinion if they watch it, but I saw a lot of dropped passes, slipping by WRs and turning the wrong way when the ball was in the air. I think I heard one of the announcers comment that the Rams were 2nd in the league in drops at over 13%. That will certainly drop your completion percentage.

I think there are more accurate deep throwers, especially his sideline throws, but even on some of them, the WR failed.

But other than that, the ball was pretty much being put where it needed to be, and often in a pretty tight window.

He certainly puts it on target far more than the Bills have seen in a while.

I watch that and I agree with Jaws at the end, How can you evaluate him without considering who he's throwing to?



I also think I heard the announcers say that the Rams were #1 with the most pressures against their QB too. That certainly doesn't help either...on top of your WRs dropping well thrown balls, Bradford was getting killed back there.

I agree with everything you said.

[Patrick76777]

He showed up out of nowhere and accused me of being in fantasy land. get a grip.

You take things too personal.

[better days]

Winning the starting job is much different from performing as the starter.

You can't be that surprised that people have serious issues with EJ and think he will never pan out.

It's not like he has done anything to prove otherwise.

"He's only played x games" is in no way a resounding vote of confidence from the pro-EJ crowd either.

The post I replied to said EJ will NEVER be NFL ready.

I took that to mean the op thought EJ will not ever be good enough to even be a back up QB in the NFL.

I really have no idea if EJ will win the starting job or not, that is why I said IF in my post, not WHEN EJ wins the starting job.

But the other day, Rex said there are 3 Coaches on staff that have had success developing QB's & he thinks they can develop EJ & get him to improve.

I also expect whoever wins the starting QB job to perform or they won't keep that job for long.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Bradford is a limited quantity too and I think it's highly unlikely that he could turn this franchise around.
This is where the disagreement is. It is a subjective opinion of yours based on no professional scouting or football experience and completely unquantifiable. Yet you use this statement as a fact on which you base your entire argument.

[Skooby]

This is where the disagreement is. It is a subjective opinion of yours based on no professional scouting or football experience and completely unquantifiable. Yet you use this statement as a fact on which you base your entire argument.

That's the oddest part, no facts yet a definitive opinion has been formed.

[OpIv37]

This is where the disagreement is. It is a subjective opinion of yours based on no professional scouting or football experience and completely unquantifiable. Yet you use this statement as a fact on which you base your entire argument.

And? The people who want Bradford are basing their argument in the subjective opinion that he is the franchise QB we need. That's how opinions and discussions work.

And no one here has any professional football or scouting experience. If that's your standard, then we might as well shut the board down because none of us are qualified to comment.

Oh, and despite my lack of professional experience, I've been right many, many times when the people getting paid millions to run the team got it wrong, and I'm far from the only one on this board. Performance dictates competence, not title.

[DraftBoy]

And no one here has any professional football or scouting experience. If that's your standard, then we might as well shut the board down because none of us are qualified to comment.

That's not entirely true and no I'm not referring to myself for the record.

[OpIv37]

That's not entirely true and no I'm not referring to myself for the record.

Fair enough but you get the point. The overwhelming majority of us have never had any type of professional position related to football. That doesn't mean that we can't have valid, informed opinions about personnel like Miyagi is implying.

[DraftBoy]

Fair enough but you get the point. The overwhelming majority of us have never had any type of professional position related to football. That doesn't mean that we can't have valid, informed opinions about personnel like Miyagi is implying.

I agree with your point.

I also see what Miyagi is saying as well.

Everybody can have an opinion and discuss it in a civilized manner. That doesn't necessarily mean that one opinion is more valid than the other. You hang your hat on being predominantly right about many of the Bills moves in the past and their overall lack of success. There is nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't immediately invalidate an opinion that the Bills will suddenly see the light under a new owner/HC/etc.

You have as much validity to be skeptical as some does to be optimistic.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I agree with your point.

I also see what Miyagi is saying as well.

Everybody can have an opinion and discuss it in a civilized manner. That doesn't necessarily mean that one opinion is more valid than the other. You hang your hat on being predominantly right about many of the Bills moves in the past and their overall lack of success. There is nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't immediately invalidate an opinion that the Bills will suddenly see the light under a new owner/HC/etc.

You have as much validity to be skeptical as some does to be optimistic.

The problem is the pool of QBs that are available this year. There are legitimate and significant reasons to not like each QB. There's no chance that the majority of the board will agree with any free agent QB signing or trade.

My only hope is that at the end of this year, we will have a clear cut starter for next year.

[OpIv37]

I agree with your point.

I also see what Miyagi is saying as well.

Everybody can have an opinion and discuss it in a civilized manner. That doesn't necessarily mean that one opinion is more valid than the other. You hang your hat on being predominantly right about many of the Bills moves in the past and their overall lack of success. There is nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't immediately invalidate an opinion that the Bills will suddenly see the light under a new owner/HC/etc.

You have as much validity to be skeptical as some does to be optimistic.

I don't necessarily think that's true. I'm not skeptical of a trade for Bradford for the sake of being skeptical. I'm trying to look at it objectively. When I see Bradford's injury history and what he's accomplished in the past, combined with the fact that his cap hit and cost to obtain him would hurt our ability to do things like fix the OL, there are more reasons to be skeptical than optimistic.

It also doesn't bode well that St Louis is willing to part with him. Teams just don't let franchise QB's get away too often.

When people are saying things like "well some QB's do better in certain systems" and using that as a reason to be optimistic, I don't see that as being nearly as valid as my reasons for being skeptical.

[better days]

I don't necessarily think that's true. I'm not skeptical of a trade for Bradford for the sake of being skeptical. I'm trying to look at it objectively. When I see Bradford's injury history and what he's accomplished in the past, combined with the fact that his cap hit and cost to obtain him would hurt our ability to do things like fix the OL, there are more reasons to be skeptical than optimistic.

When people are saying things like "well some QB's do better in certain systems" and using that as a reason to be optimistic, I don't see that as being nearly as valid as my reasons for being skeptical.

Well, Rex Ryan & Jim Kelly were the people saying a QB can look great in one system & terrible in another different system.

I would tend to believe they know what they are talking about.

[OpIv37]

Well, Rex Ryan & Jim Kelly were the people saying a QB can look great in one system & terrible in another different system.

I would tend to believe they know what they are talking about.

Ok. That doesn't mean that Bradford will be better in the Bills' offense. Maybe he's just not that good, or maybe we don't have the right system for him either. Or both.

A $16 million cap hit and giving up draft picks in a year where we are already short is a steep price to find out.

[better days]

Ok. That doesn't mean that Bradford will be better in the Bills' offense. Maybe he's just not that good, or maybe we don't have the right system for him either. Or both.

A $16 million cap hit and giving up draft picks in a year where we are already short is a steep price to find out.

I am with you Op about not wanting to trade for Bradford.

I would sign him in a heartbeat to an incentive laden contract as a FA, but I would not want to trade for him.

[OpIv37]

I'd sign him as a FA because we wouldn't have to give up any picks and we could make the deal cap-friendly. And like you said, we could make it incentive laden so it's low risk: he only gets paid if he earns it.

[Ingtar33]

well its a moot point anyway. This came about because the rams bungled bradford's contract situation. they're trying to renegotiate an extension with him, and wanted him to take a pay cut. he replied with "if you want to cut my contract, then i don't want to sign with you, let me look for a trade"

the gm told his agent to call around and gauge the interest in bradford. which is what he's doing.

the rams have no interest in trading him, they're just playing hardball in negotiating the extension.

[Historian]

For as cheap as Ralph was always purported to be, at least he wrapped up his key positions, like QB and DE and RB.

[stuckincincy]

I suspect that Bradford and his representation took note of how Orton played DAL and BUF...

[better days]

well its a moot point anyway. This came about because the rams bungled bradford's contract situation. they're trying to renegotiate an extension with him, and wanted him to take a pay cut. he replied with "if you want to cut my contract, then i don't want to sign with you, let me look for a trade"

the gm told his agent to call around and gauge the interest in bradford. which is what he's doing.

the rams have no interest in trading him, they're just playing hardball in negotiating the extension.

The question is who blinks first?

The Rams want to keep Bradford & would be hurting worse than the Bills without him.

But they don't want to pay him anywhere close to what that contract calls for.

[Mr. Pink]

I am with you Op about not wanting to trade for Bradford.

I would sign him in a heartbeat to an incentive laden contract as a FA, but I would not want to trade for him.

I also agree with this.

Incentive laden contract with minimal guaranteed money I'd be all for kicking the tires on Bradford.

Unfortunately that's not the reality of trying to acquire Bradford right now and the reality of what you need to do is just plain bad business.

[JohnnyGold]

He'd be an absolute upgrade for:
Buffalo (worst QB situation in the NFL)
Tennessee
Tampa Bay
NYJ
Cleveland
Houston

Arguably:
Washington
Cincinnati
Jacksonville (never happening but Bortles has a ways to go)
Kansas City
Chicago (chemistry reasons and fan relations)
Arizona


There is not much out there. If he's trying to force his way out of STL I'd make a call.

And yes I'd pay him that $13m base salary on a 1 year deal as he's an impending FA and I have a team that is built to win right now if it can get competent QB play. We have 29m in cap space.


JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH.

a bird in one hand much?

It's so easy to say "EJ sucks! Let's sign Bradford", but he is injury prone. Period. Some guys just are. When QBs are, it's disastrous.

You might "not like" EJ, but imagine investing in Bradford, starting 2-3, and then he tears his rotator cuff. Or sprains his knee. Or whatever.

No thanks.

Orton came in off the street and took us to 9-7 by staying healthy and not making mistakes.

ANY QB in football can do that next year with this team--I'm dead serious. Losman could have us at 9-7.

We don't need a middle of the road guy who has been in the league for 7-10 years and done diddly--no thanks to cutler, bradford or sanchez.

We need unproven youth, or a "one last shot to win it all" vet.

Either we develop the talent, or we go big.

Save the middling BS for the Texans and Browns of the world.

With this D and this coaching staff, the time to win is now and in the future.

Mediocrity is over.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Oh, and despite my lack of professional experience, I've been right many, many times when the people getting paid millions to run the team got it wrong, and I'm far from the only one on this board. Performance dictates competence, not title.
See there you go again about being right.

[DraftBoy]

I don't necessarily think that's true. I'm not skeptical of a trade for Bradford for the sake of being skeptical. I'm trying to look at it objectively. When I see Bradford's injury history and what he's accomplished in the past, combined with the fact that his cap hit and cost to obtain him would hurt our ability to do things like fix the OL, there are more reasons to be skeptical than optimistic.

But you're leaving out all the elements that Cookie mentioned and provided in his post. You're focusing on the negatives either intentionally or unintentionally.


It also doesn't bode well that St Louis is willing to part with him. Teams just don't let franchise QB's get away too often.
That doesn't mean much to me. The group that drafted Bradford isn't there anymore.


When people are saying things like "well some QB's do better in certain systems" and using that as a reason to be optimistic, I don't see that as being nearly as valid as my reasons for being skeptical.

No disagreement here.

[feldspar]

See there you go again about being right.

Saying that the Bills aren't going to do well each year doesn't take any special brand of insight, either.

Anybody that knows anything knows that a quality QB is the key.

[Skooby]

We've been mismanaged for decades now, so thinking the Bills might not do well isn't rocket-science or brain surgery. Pegula's Sabres moves have left the team the worst in the league & record low scoring, so I can't wait to see how he fumbles an NFL team.

/ OP Type rant.

[Frenchman]

Face it as Bradford has been injured for two seasons. That is a cause of concern.

[stuckincincy]

Face it as Bradford has been injured for two seasons. That is a cause of concern.

It sure is.

[OpIv37]

See there you go again about being right.
You accused me of not knowing what I'm talking about because I'm not a professional. I only pointed out that I was right to prove to you that people don't have to be professionals to have valid opinions and be correct about things.

[better days]

We've been mismanaged for decades now, so thinking the Bills might not do well isn't rocket-science or brain surgery. Pegula's Sabres moves have left the team the worst in the league & record low scoring, so I can't wait to see how he fumbles an NFL team.

/ OP Type rant.

The Sabres are BAD this year by design.

There are TWO once in a generation players in this NHL draft & the Sabres are going to get one of them.

[swiper]

The Sabres are BAD this year by design.

There are TWO once in a generation players in this NHL draft & the Sabres are going to get one of them.

And the worst team in the league will get what? A 18.7% chance (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2015/01/23/nhl-draft-lottery-sabres-with-best-chance-at-connor-mcdavid-but-oilers-could-nab-top-pick/) of getting one of them? Yeah. Stupid. Like you.

[better days]

And the worst team in the league will get what? A 18.7% chance (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2015/01/23/nhl-draft-lottery-sabres-with-best-chance-at-connor-mcdavid-but-oilers-could-nab-top-pick/) of getting one of them? Yeah. Stupid. Like you.

If the Sabres finish in last place which is not a 100% guarantee, but is pretty certain, it is a 100% guarantee the Sabres will get one of the two best players in the Draft. IDIOT.

[swiper]

If the Sabres finish in last place which is not a 100% guarantee, but is pretty certain, it is a 100% guarantee the Sabres will get one of the two best players in the Draft. IDIOT.

Tell your mom the abortion failed her.

[stuckincincy]

The Sabres are BAD this year by design.

There are TWO once in a generation players in this NHL draft & the Sabres are going to get one of them.

Heh. I lived in the PGH area starting in 1978. Went to many a Penguin game - they wore white and blue then. Did they tank for Mario Lemieux? Uh, Uh, well, Uh, err, Uh,...

The club and his family did a nice thing with the young Mario. He lived in the house of a family in a town, that location south of the river offering a half hour access to the Igloo, as the rink was called. His pocket $ was restricted. He had a curfew. Family, employer made sure he was put on the right path.

[better days]

Tell your mom the abortion failed her.

Tell your father his son is an IDIOT.

Oh wait, there is no way to know who your father is.

[swiper]

Tell your father his son is an IDIOT.

Oh wait, there is no way to know who your father is.

You really should go back to posting on the board for mentally challenged. You have a hard time with real people.

[OpIv37]

We've been mismanaged for decades now, so thinking the Bills might not do well isn't rocket-science or brain surgery. Pegula's Sabres moves have left the team the worst in the league & record low scoring, so I can't wait to see how he fumbles an NFL team.

/ OP Type rant.
Do you even watch the Sabres?

Darcy Regier ****ed the team. Pegula had no choice but to break it down because there was no way in hell they were going to win with Vanek, Roy, Pominville and Stafford. The mistake Pegula made was not breaking it down as soon as he bought the team.

[swiper]

Do you even watch the Sabres?

Darcy Regier ****ed the team. Pegula had no choice but to break it down because there was no way in hell they were going to win with Vanek, Roy, Pominville and Stafford. The mistake Pegula made was not breaking it down as soon as he bought the team.

Ville Leino sends hugs and kisses.

[YardRat]

Tell your father his son is an IDIOT.

Oh wait, there is no way to know who your father is.


You really should go back to posting on the board for mentally challenged. You have a hard time with real people.

Both of you need to get a grip and lay off insulting each other, or get a room and get it over with. Grow up. If you can't interact with each other for one day without trading insults, than I would suggest putting each other on ignore.

[stuckincincy]

Tell your mom the abortion failed her.

Where did this crap come from? I've no problem with your now-and-then snappy comments, Swiper. I do so, now-and-then, too.

You issued a personal attack at a poster who gave no provocation, and made it a cruel one at that.

Don't do it again.

[OpIv37]

Ville Leino sends hugs and kisses.

My point exactly. Pegula thought he could add a few pieces and win with that core. It took him two seasons of losing to figure it out. It was very Snyder-esque. He was a fan who just happened to have hundreds of millions. He bought the team and bought Regier's bull****.

[Mike]

The NHL changed their draft policies this past year to decrease the worst team's odds of getting the #1st pick & increase the other teams odds. Many of the changes will be implemented in 2015 while the rest are coming in 2016!

2015 NHL Draft Lottery

Drawing only for #1 Pick
- for worst team odds dropped from 25% to win #1 overall to 20%
- after drawing, teams draft based on record.

2016 Draft Lottery

Drawing for top #3 Picks
- theoretically worst team can draft 4th overall

[swiper]

Where did this crap come from? I've no problem with your now-and-then snappy comments, Swiper. I do so, now-and-then, too.

You issued a personal attack at a poster who gave no provocation, and made it a cruel one at that.

Don't do it again.

You're mom wants her computer back.

[better days]

The NHL changed their draft policies this past year to decrease the worst team's odds of getting the #1st pick & increase the other teams odds. Many of the changes will be implemented in 2015 while the rest are coming in 2016!

2015 NHL Draft Lottery

Drawing only for #1 Pick
- for worst team odds dropped from 25% to win #1 overall to 20%
- after drawing, teams draft based on record.

2016 Draft Lottery

Drawing for top #3 Picks
- theoretically worst team can draft 4th overall

This draft in 2015, the worst place team is guaranteed the #2 pick at worst.

This is the draft with TWO once in a generation players in it & the Sabres are very likely to get one of them.

[stuckincincy]

You're mom wants her computer back.

Why? She's been dead for years, and certainly knew that what you meant to say - "your" - is a 2nd person possessive adjective, and that "you're" is a contraction of you are, usually followed a present participle.

Dunt yr baby momma tik U gramma, fo shizzl?

[swiper]

Why? She's been dead for years, and certainly knew that what you meant to say - "your" - is a 2nd person possessive adjective, and that "you're" is a contraction of you are, usually followed a present participle.

Dunt yr baby momma tik U gramma, fo shizzl?

don't quit yer day job redneck. I hear those Bengals of yours have a great QB.

[ublinkwescore]

If we do this, we may potentially net our franchise qb. I would rather we grab bradford than Sanchez. I want the best possible roster NOW!!! And we know the defense is ready NOW!!!

I say **** it. All in on bradford. Contact the rams now.

Get some pass protectors in free agency.

[ublinkwescore]

It's not about having the best at any position, it's about getting enough out of every position, and ej will be deficient.

[Mace]

It's not about having the best at any position, it's about getting enough out of every position, and ej will be deficient.

I don't disagree, but why do you think that's warm weather, beaten up, injury prone, confused multiple OC Bradford ?

[WagonCircler]

I don't disagree, but why do you think that's warm weather, beaten up, injury prone, confused multiple OC Bradford ?

He is, far and away, the most skilled, talented QB (who might be) available. If there's an injury prone QB who's worth the gamble, it's Bradford.

The warm vs cold weather argument is the most overrated element in assessing a QB. The Bills play 90% of their games in conditions unaffected by weather.

[swiper]

He is, far and away, the most skilled, talented QB (who might be) available. If there's an injury prone QB who's worth the gamble, it's Bradford.

The warm vs cold weather argument is the most overrated element in assessing a QB. The Bills play 90% of their games in conditions unaffected by weather.

Agree. But it seems it's more about the cost.

[sudzy]

Agree. But it seems it's more about the cost.

Any word of what they are looking for?

[kishoph]

Jeff Fischer said that reports that Bradford was given permission to seek a trade are inaccurate and that Bradford is in the plans to be the Rams starting QB.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000472467/article/jeff-fisher-im-betting-on-sam-bradford-in-2015

[better days]

Jeff Fischer said that reports that Bradford was given permission to seek a trade are inaccurate and that Bradford is in the plans to be the Rams starting QB.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000472467/article/jeff-fisher-im-betting-on-sam-bradford-in-2015

No question the Rams want Bradford back.

They just don't want to pay him that ridiculous amount of money his contract calls for.

I guess the Question is does Bradford want to go back to the Rams or would he rather try his luck elsewhere?

[Skooby]

Jeff Fischer said that reports that Bradford was given permission to seek a trade are inaccurate and that Bradford is in the plans to be the Rams starting QB.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000472467/article/jeff-fisher-im-betting-on-sam-bradford-in-2015

/ Fantasy.

[trapezeus]

personally i think bradford's cost is too much. but if the bills do something, what other choice do i have but to support it?

Bradford's injuries in college were to the shoulder and he didn't seem to be a strong arm QB that could deal with tough buffalo weather in november.

i still think EJ is our project that we've put time into. this is his makeor break it year whetherit is fair or not. i really hope he gets it and runs with it. though i think his accuracy issues may prove too much to fix.

i know we want playoffs so badly, but it will come down to defense and running with passing to keep teams honest. to keep the defense deep, i feel like we need to keep drafting there, and to have a run game ready to go we need another OL and 1 or 2 rbs in addition to what we have

[Patrick76777]

I know that there are a lot of basement GM’s who would hate the idea of this move, but I can tell you right now, that they’re all foolish. The Bills have to make this happen and they have to make it happen now. You can’t win in this league without having a very good or great QB. Bradford is a former 1st overall draft pick, meaning that he is very talented. He’s 27 years old. He’s played 4 years and besides for a tough sophomore year, he has showed progression. 59 TD’s to 38 Int’s, 15 of those coming in his rookie year. He was 14/4 before he got hurt in 2013.

And ACL’s are not an “injury prone” injury. QB’s can come back from that. It’s not like he has concussion issues.

Guys with this kind of talent are not available often. St. Louis is stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can swoop him and basically steal this guy from this team.

Fact: Football fans way overvalue draft picks.

After another poor year because of lackluster QB play, everyone will be begging for us to use our first round pick on a QB in 2016. But here we are, we can get this guy right now.

We’re foolish if we don’t give this a chance. What are the other options???

This reminds me a lot of the Drew Brees thing. Coming off a huge injury, Miami passed on him and he went to New Orleans.

Make this happen!!!!


I’m not getting into a back and forth argument on this, I’ve said what I came to say. This needs to happen.

Bradford finished Saturday 10-of-10 passing for 121 yards and the three touchdowns.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000518326/article/sam-bradford-eagles-offense-firing-on-all-cylinders

[Mace]

Bradford finished Saturday 10-of-10 passing for 121 yards and the three touchdowns.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000518326/article/sam-bradford-eagles-offense-firing-on-all-cylinders

It's still pretty much the same as it was though. Can't afford to pay him 13 million a year, he's injury-iffy, and we're not a Chip Kelly offense.

[swiper]

The Eagles obviously made a better decision than the Bills did.

[ublinkwescore]

is that sarcasm? ^

[Night Train]

The Eagles obviously made a better decision than the Bills did.

LOL. OK...

[Mike]

Eagles paid a lot for Bradford:
1st rounder & Nick Foles

> We didn't have nearly enough trading pieces to get Bradford

[swiper]

Eagles paid a lot for Bradford:
1st rounder & Nick Foles

> We didn't have nearly enough trading pieces to get Bradford

We have Dareus.

[Mike]

We have Dareus.

Have you seen the Rams D-Line?

They are loaded. Their line might give us a run for our money. Easy top 3 in NFL ;)

I I liked the idea of going after Bradford but I don't think we could have landed him based on what the Eagles gave (which honestly shocked me).

[The Jokeman]

We have Dareus.

How soon before Bradford gets hurt? I say the over/under is 7 regular season games.

[USC_Gamecock]

Tyrod is the right man for the job.

[GreedoII]

I live in Philly and they think they are going 16-0 after Bradford 10 for 10. it's comical.