Good read on Watkins

[Oaf]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/15/sammy-watkins-clemson-nfl-draft/ (pre-draft article from last year)

I've already wondered why the NFL/Bills were so high on SW given his college production and measurables. 1st round pick? Definitely. Top 5, worth two 1st rounders, auto pro-bowler like many analysts say? I just don't think I understand that yet. The article doesn't go one way or another, but raises those similar questions.

[Night Train]

Watkins didn't broker the trade, so I hold nothing against him. He's a great kid and a super talent. People misdirect their anger towards him, rather than Whaley or whoever pushed for the trade. Now that the current draft is coming up and the 1st rounder is missing, many revisit their anger.

I like Watkins, Woods and Hogan as our starters. They need a QB to get them the ball, so the team isn't overly dependent on the running game. This QB class in the draft looks bad beyond the top 2, so a Vet must be found.

[swiper]

I haven't seen anyone misdirect anger towards Watkins over Whaley making that trade. Whaley's legacy is being written by his getting/not getting a viable QB. That trade will be linked to that. But if he was ever going to give up a first (while needing a QB) it was good to be done in this draft.

I liked the line-up with Watkins, Woods, Goodwin and Mike Williams better than the one with Hogan (Mr. I can't get to the first down marker).

[Skooby]

Watkins is the best WR we've had since Moulds in his prime, it's crazy to second guess this move.

[YardRat]

The kid has mitts...yeah, he can improve in areas (route running, for example) but what rookie/2nd year player can't? If he can stay healthy and playing through 'dings' doesn't become a major factor, he's going to be really good for a long time.

[Goobylal]

Take a look at the CB's he was facing during the season, versus some of the other highly-touted rookies. And then look who was throwing to him compared to them as well.

[K-Gun]

I like Watkins as a player, but my preference was to trade down to the mid-1st and draft Kelvin Benjamin.

[DesertFox24]

Can we wait till they finish their third season before we start throwing the book at Sammy. Sammy has Jerry Rice ability and by that I mean could be the GOAT. Granted he will need a QB, but he has that type of talent, he is taller than average, longer arms, better catch radius that Evans, vert and explosion, plus great route runner ALREADY.

To be fair it is hard to justify moving up for a WR when you do not have a WR and that is a fair statement but he is a bill and when all is said and done if he becomes a HOF which he has the potential then this trade was worth it.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Can we wait till they finish their third season before we start throwing the book at Sammy. Sammy has Jerry Rice ability and by that I mean could be the GOAT. Granted he will need a QB, but he has that type of talent, he is taller than average, longer arms, better catch radius that Evans, vert and explosion, plus great route runner ALREADY.

To be fair it is hard to justify moving up for a WR when you do not have a WR and that is a fair statement but he is a bill and when all is said and done if he becomes a HOF which he has the potential then this trade was worth it.

Not taller than average, does not have long arms and has a very average vertical.... did you read the article?

[Meathead]

hes really gonna need to be great as in top five for a long string of seasons to totally justify the price but even if hes only very good it was a good pick. im hoping the minimum we get out of him is the next steve smith without being a total douchehole

[X-Era]

Watkins didn't broker the trade, so I hold nothing against him. He's a great kid and a super talent. People misdirect their anger towards him, rather than Whaley or whoever pushed for the trade. Now that the current draft is coming up and the 1st rounder is missing, many revisit their anger.

I like Watkins, Woods and Hogan as our starters. They need a QB to get them the ball, so the team isn't overly dependent on the running game. This QB class in the draft looks bad beyond the top 2, so a Vet must be found.I want a rugged possession guy. But I wouldn't mind a guy that can also return from the draft like Tyler Lockett or Devin Smith.

Miles Austin or Kenny Britt but not for a big contract.

[The Jokeman]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/15/sammy-watkins-clemson-nfl-draft/ (pre-draft article from last year)

I've already wondered why the NFL/Bills were so high on SW given his college production and measurables. 1st round pick? Definitely. Top 5, worth two 1st rounders, auto pro-bowler like many analysts say? I just don't think I understand that yet. The article doesn't go one way or another, but raises those similar questions.
I posted this article after we drafted him as the notes about Sammy not being as big/physical as some of the other elite WRs taken before him made me question him. As I was someone who didn't buy into the pre-draft Watkins hype I have to admit after seeing him play last year he won me over. I know in retrospect it's easy to say we could have had Beckham and still had the 19th overall pick this year but quite frankly I don't think Beckham put up the numbers he put up with the Giants here. Also if you look at what the Browns have gotten so far in return (Jason Gilbert) I'd say the Bills have done better in the trade thus far. As one could say he's cost us a CB who didn't do much his rookie year and player X and player Y. If you go by predraft rankings player X could be another WR but not one who predicts to be as dynamic as Sammy and Player Y (our 4th rounder) I haven't studied but don't imagine he be an impact guy.

[Oaf]

Watkins didn't broker the trade, so I hold nothing against him. He's a great kid and a super talent. People misdirect their anger towards him, rather than Whaley or whoever pushed for the trade.

I hope my post didn't come off as "throwing the book" on Sammy. Like EJ and Donte Whitner, he couldn't control where he was picked and I have nothing against him or even his performance. I guess since we spent two 1sts on him, I've wondered as to the Bills'/NFL's evaluation of him to be a gamebreaker/top 5 pick. I did not see that RB "bowling" ability translate into his YAC last year, either. That might come with time though.

[Kenny]

I hope my post didn't come off as "throwing the book" on Sammy. Like EJ and Donte Whitner, he couldn't control where he was picked and I have nothing against him or even his performance. I guess since we spent two 1sts on him, I've wondered as to the Bills'/NFL's evaluation of him to be a gamebreaker/top 5 pick. I did not see that RB "bowling" ability translate into his YAC last year, either. That might come with time though.

Well, unlike EJ and Donte, I dont think he was a reach. People can argue whether the price to move up to get him was too much, but whether he as worthy of #4 overall, I've got no problem with it.

Past performance is not indicative of future results, etc… but let's face it, the guy was projected to go top5. I know you're probably thinking mock drafts are useless, but generally speaking, at least for the top 5 picks, they're always pretty damn accurate.. and Watkins was projected Top 5.

Now let's look at history... Here's some of the top WRs (top5) Blackmon, AJ Green, Julio Jones (#6), Megatron, Braylon Edwards, Fitz, Charles Rogers, Andre Johnson... There's been some busts, namely Braylon Edwards & Charles Rogers (character issues aside, Blackmon was tearing up the league when he played), and obviously you can always grab some great talent outside (i.e., Dez Bryant who fell out of the Top10), but generally, top WRs that are expected to be the cream of the crop coming out of college have for the most part, panned out.

Here's hoping Sammy continues the trend.

[better days]

Watkins didn't broker the trade, so I hold nothing against him. He's a great kid and a super talent. People misdirect their anger towards him, rather than Whaley or whoever pushed for the trade. Now that the current draft is coming up and the 1st rounder is missing, many revisit their anger.

I like Watkins, Woods and Hogan as our starters. They need a QB to get them the ball, so the team isn't overly dependent on the running game. This QB class in the draft looks bad beyond the top 2, so a Vet must be found.

Well, there is no QB in this draft that the Bills could have gotten at #19 that is any better than EJ Manuel.

It was reported that if the Bills did not make the trade for Watkins, they would have drafted Eric Ebron last year.

So, the question is what would you rather have...Sammy Watkins or Eric Ebron & the #19 pick this year?

It is still early, but I think Sammy will prove to be the better of those choices.

[Oaf]

but whether he as worthy of #4 overall, I've got no problem with it.



This is exactly what I'm digging at. Why? On paper, SW doesn't seem to match the measurables or dominant college career of the other Top 5 names you provided.

[YardRat]

This is exactly what I'm digging at. Why? On paper, SW doesn't seem to match the measurables or dominant college career of the other Top 5 names you provided.

I would guess any front office worth a damn is going to evaluate and rank prospects on expectation of what they can accomplish at the professional level and not necessarily what they did in college.

[Pinkerton Security]

This is exactly what I'm digging at. Why? On paper, SW doesn't seem to match the measurables or dominant college career of the other Top 5 names you provided.

Measureables, not as much. Production:

Sammy: 240 catches, 3391 yards (14.1 avg), 27 TDs
Megatron: 178 catches, 2927 yards (16.4 avg), 28 TDs
AJ Green: 166 catches, 2619 yards (15.8 avg), 23 TDs
Julio: 179 catches, 2653 yards (14.8 avg), 15 TDs

His college numbers are very comparable. Granted, these numbers are indicative of the offensive systems they played in, but that is inevitable.

[Oaf]

I would guess any front office worth a damn is going to evaluate and rank prospects on expectation of what they can accomplish at the professional level and not necessarily what they did in college.

Based on his college production (50% catches behind the line) and factual measurables (not extraordinary as the article points out), what does his professional expectation come out to?

[Cali512]

My issue is his attitude. He throws people under the bus and his emotions are so babyish that in no way help us. He sulkes, meanwhile Dez and other Wrs find the QB and makes sure they find them. But that's my only issue

[DesertFox24]

Not taller than average, does not have long arms and has a very average vertical.... did you read the article?

His arms are longer than the average person his height, and his vert if better than some HOF WRs.

[DesertFox24]

Measureables, not as much. Production:

Sammy: 240 catches, 3391 yards (14.1 avg), 27 TDs
Megatron: 178 catches, 2927 yards (16.4 avg), 28 TDs
AJ Green: 166 catches, 2619 yards (15.8 avg), 23 TDs
Julio: 179 catches, 2653 yards (14.8 avg), 15 TDs

His college numbers are very comparable. Granted, these numbers are indicative of the offensive systems they played in, but that is inevitable.

For some reason people get to into the combine measurables and all that garbage. Basically watch the game film and that will tell you all you need to know.

People will bash it because he is not huge or whatever and that is fine, but my point of waiting to see what happens is the true indicator.

The other thing that should show people how good he is was to see how a great defensive mind like Rex Ryan choose to defend Sammy.

Go ahead and flame away and be all mad we do not have a first round, but for me personally Sammy is better than any WR in this draft. I have said on record I personally would not have made the deal, but Sammy was regarded as a generational talent and not many like him come along.

Some people can never be happy and some people always want to find something to complain about. Of all the things to B&M about on this team Sammy is not one of them.

- - - Updated - - -


For some reason people get to into the combine measurables and all that garbage. Basically watch the game film and that will tell you all you need to know.

People will bash it because he is not huge or whatever and that is fine, but my point of waiting to see what happens is the true indicator.

The other thing that should show people how good he is was to see how a great defensive mind like Rex Ryan choose to defend Sammy.

Go ahead and flame away and be all mad we do not have a first round, but for me personally Sammy is better than any WR in this draft. I have said on record I personally would not have made the deal, but Sammy was regarded as a generational talent and not many like him come along.

Some people can never be happy and some people always want to find something to complain about. Of all the things to B&M about on this team Sammy is not one of them.

The other thing I would like to point out is the sports science with Evans and Watkins, Sammy had a bigger catch radius than Evans. Move along people just trolls here.

[Oaf]

My issue is his attitude. He throws people under the bus and his emotions are so babyish that in no way help us. He sulkes, meanwhile Dez and other Wrs find the QB and makes sure they find them. But that's my only issue

I'm not even close to seeing this one.



His arms are longer than the average person his height, and his vert if better than some HOF WRs.

I bet >50% of WRs who started a NFL game and never reached 1000 yards in a season fall into your bucket there.


For some reason people get to into the combine measurables and all that garbage. Basically watch the game film and that will tell you all you need to know.


That's exactly what I did, as I'm not a scout. I didn't see that RB ability when he ran, and I didn't see Dez Bryant, Julio Jones, Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson type play on his tape, which is where he was drafted. Hence my original post asking what I was missing.

[Oaf]

I'm more shocked than disappointed about the Watkins trade. In the two seasons since this post, even when healthy, I didn't see any YAC or catch-in-traffic ability that a true #1 like Moulds would have.

We lose the deep ball aspect with Watkins vs Matthews, and this hurts Tyrod since that's one of his strengths. But at first blush I think we went from a pedestrian offense to a pedestrian offense. I hope Tyrod will be around to at least compete for a job in '18.

[Oaf]

This guy in '14 was exactly right (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/223816-Watkins-vs-Matthews-vs-Mack?p=3944218&viewfull=1#post3944218).

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