I can't believe the stupidity of Bills fans

[Forward_Lateral]

The Bills just traded a LB, who's played ONE SEASON in the NFL, has had 2 ACL surgeries in the past 4 years for a probowl RB who's 27 years old. What's the problem? Yes we loved Kiko. I was one of his biggest fans. But the team is stacked at LB, and could afford to trade him. I don't see, how from any angle possible, the Bills didn't just fleece the Eagles.

I hope Kiko does well in Philly, I hope he makes the pro bowl. But, IMO, a pro bowl RB > a pro bowl LB every day.

[ryjam282]

I agree 100%. Any Bills fan who saw this trade and wasn't instantly happy is nuts IMO. I believe the Bills just got better today.

[Forward_Lateral]

I agree 100%. Any Bills fan who saw this trade and wasn't instantly happy is nuts IMO. I believe the Bills just got better today.

I saw that Kiko was being traded, and I was a bit upset, but it took me about 2 minutes to get over that.

[Downinfloflo]

I saw that Kiko was being traded, and I was a bit upset, but it took me about 2 minutes to get over that.

Took me 12 minutes, Slow learner.

[Meathead]

its the age/cost/value equation that is a question mark to me

historically this is the season for him to start losing abilities reflected in stats. should still be highly productive for a couple seasons but is what the bills are giving up in an excellent prospect and a 7/8/9+ million salary difference the next few years worth it?

tough call. pretty much depends on what happens with the bills the next few years, as well as how well kiko does in philly. so we really wont know how good/bad a move this was for a couple seasons

[Dr. Lecter]

Or it could be a move that's good for both teams.

[Dr. Lecter]

Took me 12 minutes, Slow learner.

Gee - I had never noticed!!!!

[Downinfloflo]

Gee - I had never noticed!!!!

What upsets you, Is the fact I'm dead on in regards to the Sabres, And it hurts!! :bigheart:

[Goobylal]

Kiko is a question mark. Two ACL injuries to the same knee in 4 years and he faded over the second half of his rookie season (although that can be expected to happen). Sure he's cheap and has potential, but McCoy is a proven top RB, still young, and doesn't have a ton of mileage on him. The only real issue is salary, but they have the room and I expect they'll restructure his contract to lower his cap hit.

[ryjam282]

I am worried about the contract restructure. Rosenhaus is his agent and he wasn't so great with us with McGAYhee. So, we'll see

[OpIv37]

The Bills just traded a LB, who's played ONE SEASON in the NFL, has had 2 ACL surgeries in the past 4 years for a probowl RB who's 27 years old. What's the problem? Yes we loved Kiko. I was one of his biggest fans. But the team is stacked at LB, and could afford to trade him. I don't see, how from any angle possible, the Bills didn't just fleece the Eagles.

I hope Kiko does well in Philly, I hope he makes the pro bowl. But, IMO, a pro bowl RB > a pro bowl LB every day.

1. pro Bowl RB's are much easier to find than pro bowl LB's. Granted, Kiko wasn't one yet it he's well on his way
2. $12 MILLION against the cap is far too much for ANY RB
3. RB is useless without a good OL And the cap hit for McCoy Significantly hampers our ability to get that done (not to mention the other holes).

[OpIv37]

Oh and McCoy's coming off his worst season. Given the rate that RB's decline, he's a question mark too.

[Downinfloflo]

Oh and McCoy's coming off his worst season. Given the rate that RB's decline, he's a question mark too.

If 1,300 yard is your worst season, When you touched the ball less than 20 times a game half the season, Welcome to the team.

[Dr. Lecter]

Oh and McCoy's coming off his worst season. Given the rate that RB's decline, he's a question mark too.

It wasn't his worst season

He had his second most rushing yards, 4th highest yards per attempt and 4th most TDs

He was only down on his receiving.

but it was not his worst season.

Not even close

http://www.nfl.com/player/leseanmccoy/79607/careerstats

You keep ripping on others for not using facts and you're making **** up as you go.

[OpIv37]

Ok fine- not his worst season. Still a decline in production and still reason for concern.

[CoolBreeze]

1. pro Bowl RB's are much easier to find than pro bowl LB's. Granted, Kiko wasn't one yet it he's well on his way
2. $12 MILLION against the cap is far too much for ANY RB
3. RB is useless without a good OL And the cap hit for McCoy Significantly hampers our ability to get that done (not to mention the other holes).

Since when does spending a whole season on IR mean you're well on your way to being a pro bowl player? That makes no sense, you're reaching for reasons why this was a bad deal now

[OpIv37]

Since when does spending a whole season on IR mean you're well on your way to being a pro bowl player? That makes no sense, you're reaching for reasons why this was a bad deal now

Did you watch Kiko play before the injury? Holy ****, the subjectivity is appalling. He's "the legend of Kiko" when he's a Bill and some injured bum on his way to nothing when he's not.

[Downinfloflo]

Ok fine- not his worst season. Still a decline in production and still reason for concern.

If that's a cause for concern, The current Bills RB's should be playing arena football.

[Dr. Lecter]

Ok fine- not his worst season. Still a decline in production and still reason for concern.

He came off a season that he led the NFL in yardage.

He didn't have anywhere to go but down.

Take a deep breath and re-read what you've been saying about this. You made a knee-jerk reaction and won't back off even when presented with facts and stuff.

[Dr. Lecter]

Did you watch Kiko play before the injury? Holy ****, the subjectivity is appalling. He's "the legend of Kiko" when he's a Bill and some injured bum on his way to nothing when he's not.

And yet McCoy's decline is a huge cause of concern and Alonso's injury (his second to the same ACL) means nothing.

Do I have that right?


And, besides - he was a Bills draft pick

And the Bills have never made a good draft pick, amirite?

[CoolBreeze]

Did you watch Kiko play before the injury? Holy ****, the subjectivity is appalling. He's "the legend of Kiko" when he's a Bill and some injured bum on his way to nothing when he's not.

Appalling...Now you know how I feel. We just traded a guy off IR for a top 5 RB, and you're still crying and moaning about it. That's what is truly appalling

- - - Updated - - -

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm just going to sit back and watch Lecter continue to pwn Opi.

[Forward_Lateral]

Anyone who argues that an OLB has more impact on a game/season than a pro bowl RB is a fool. The Bills have proven time and time again that they can find Defensive studs in the draft, and from other teams scrap heaps.

Yes RBs are a dime a dozen, but probowl, league leading all purpose RBs aren't.

[EDS]

Kiko is a question mark. Two ACL injuries to the same knee in 4 years and he faded over the second half of his rookie season (although that can be expected to happen). Sure he's cheap and has potential, but McCoy is a proven top RB, still young, and doesn't have a ton of mileage on him. The only real issue is salary, but they have the room and I expect they'll restructure his contract to lower his cap hit.

McCoy does have a lot of mileage as he is coming off of two consecutive 300+ carry seasons. Remember, Thurman Thomas was never the same after having his big season with 300+ carries. That said, 350+ carries in a season seems to be the real danger zone

[Goobylal]

Ok fine- not his worst season. Still a decline in production and still reason for concern.
Kelly gave a lot of his carries to Sproles.

McCoy does have a lot of mileage as he is coming off of two consecutive 300+ carry seasons. Remember, Thurman Thomas was never the same after having his big season with 300+ carries. That said, 350+ carries in a season seems to be the real danger zone
Well, when Thurman had that 350 carry season, it was the last of the SB years and the team had made the playoffs 6 years in a row, playing deep the last 4 of them. That's a lot of carries. And he was 28 at the time. But yes, I wouldn't go over 350 carries. And I meant overall he doesn't have a lot of mileage.

[OpIv37]

And yet McCoy's decline is a huge cause of concern and Alonso's injury (his second to the same ACL) means nothing.

Do I have that right?


And, besides - he was a Bills draft pick

And the Bills have never made a good draft pick, amirite?

This has nothing to do with draft picks.

And I never said Kiko's knee wasn't a concern. But a concern that counts $700k against the cap is much different than one that counts $12 million against the cap.

[OpIv37]

Anyone who argues that an OLB has more impact on a game/season than a pro bowl RB is a fool. The Bills have proven time and time again that they can find Defensive studs in the draft, and from other teams scrap heaps.

Yes RBs are a dime a dozen, but probowl, league leading all purpose RBs aren't.
Anyone who argues that a stud RB is going to have an impact on a team with a shoddy OL and a QB who scares no one is a fool.

[Forward_Lateral]

Anyone who argues that a stud RB is going to have an impact on a team with a shoddy OL and a QB who scares no one is a fool.
Free Agency and the draft still have to happen. I wish you'd become a fan of someone else for your own health. You are possibly the most negative person I have ever encountered.

[Dr. Lecter]

This has nothing to do with draft picks.

And I never said Kiko's knee wasn't a concern. But a concern that counts $700k against the cap is much different than one that counts $12 million against the cap.
Actually you did say his knee wasn't a concern

And it's not 12 million. 12 million was his hit in Philadelphia, which includes singing bonus

It's a 9 million hit.

[BidsJr]

Anyone who argues that a stud RB is going to have an impact on a team with a shoddy OL and a QB who scares no one is a fool.

You seriously complain more than any woman I have ever met or even heard about.

[OpIv37]

You seriously complain more than any woman I have ever met or even heard about.

Yet the team keeps losing so the complaints are justified.

- - - Updated - - -


Free Agency and the draft still have to happen. I wish you'd become a fan of someone else for your own health. You are possibly the most negative person I have ever encountered.

Only 6 draft picks, no first rounder. And a third of our available cap already went to McCoy.

[Mr. Miyagi]

The Bills just traded a LB, who's played ONE SEASON in the NFL, has had 2 ACL surgeries in the past 4 years for a probowl RB who's 27 years old. What's the problem? Yes we loved Kiko. I was one of his biggest fans. But the team is stacked at LB, and could afford to trade him. I don't see, how from any angle possible, the Bills didn't just fleece the Eagles.

I hope Kiko does well in Philly, I hope he makes the pro bowl. But, IMO, a pro bowl RB > a pro bowl LB every day.
It's not all Bills fans, or even most. Mainly just the perpetually *****y ones, like the poster just above me.

[BidsJr]

Yet the team keeps losing so the complaints are justified.

- - - Updated - - -



Only 6 draft picks, no first rounder. And a third of our available cap already went to McCoy.


So how does that feel? To know you complain more than any woman that ever lived?

[Dr. Who]

Anyone who argues that an OLB has more impact on a game/season than a pro bowl RB is a fool. The Bills have proven time and time again that they can find Defensive studs in the draft, and from other teams scrap heaps.

Yes RBs are a dime a dozen, but probowl, league leading all purpose RBs aren't.

Exactly. The people who hate Whaley like to dismiss him as a lb scout. Well, he's pretty damn good at finding lbs.
We'll be fine on d and the o just got a lot better. Watkins and Shady are two explosive playmakers for the opposing d to worry and gameplan around.
Brilliant move.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yet the team keeps losing so the complaints are justified.

- - - Updated - - -



Only 6 draft picks, no first rounder. And a third of our available cap already went to McCoy.


I keep asking - is it illegal to make cap adjustments?

And yes - a third of the CURRENT cap space went to him

But they still have a lot of space. It's a number without context.

17.5 million is still a good sized hunk of space. But continue to spew data with no context or incompletely

[Dr. Who]

Anyone who argues that a stud RB is going to have an impact on a team with a shoddy OL and a QB who scares no one is a fool.

Pretty sure the OL is going to be addressed. They need to add some veteran free agents that don't need development though.

[Dr. Who]

You seriously complain more than any woman I have ever met or even heard about.

Oh, Lord. Nuclear burn.
Every board needs a resident Eyore I guess.

[OpIv37]

I keep asking - is it illegal to make cap adjustments?

And yes - a third of the CURRENT cap space went to him

But they still have a lot of space. It's a number without context.

17.5 million is still a good sized hunk of space. But continue to spew data with no context or incompletely

It's not a big chunk when you consider all the holes this team still has, plus some of it has to go to rookies (although not as much this year with no first and only 6 picks).

Plus, you are assuming that players will be willing to restructure. No, it's not illegal but it's not a given and you can't count on it happening until it does. Maybe, just maybe, the FO could have done some of hat restructuring BEFORE this trade to alleviate some of the risk of the cap commitment, but nah. That would make sense.

[OpIv37]

Pretty sure the OL is going to be addressed. They need to add some veteran free agents that don't need development though.

I'm sure they'll attempt to address it. But they may not get the guys they want because FA is the player's decision in the end. As of right now, we don't have the OL to make this work and it's a huge gamble to just assume we can fix it in FA.

[Forward_Lateral]

What holes does the team have besides QB and O-line?

They are set at every position except for QB and Guard, IMO.

[OpIv37]

What holes does the team have besides QB and O-line?

They are set at every position except for QB and Guard, IMO.

TE. we lost 3 LB's and are switching systems on D. Searcy needs to be resigned or replaced.

[BillsFanCupp38]

The Bills just traded a LB, who's played ONE SEASON in the NFL, has had 2 ACL surgeries in the past 4 years for a probowl RB who's 27 years old. What's the problem? Yes we loved Kiko. I was one of his biggest fans. But the team is stacked at LB, and could afford to trade him. I don't see, how from any angle possible, the Bills didn't just fleece the Eagles.

I hope Kiko does well in Philly, I hope he makes the pro bowl. But, IMO, a pro bowl RB > a pro bowl LB every day.

Im not saying I don't agree with the trade. However I do disagree about your statement that we are "stacked" at LB. I like Preston Brown but Nigel Bradham isn't an amazing player. Spikes could be lost in FA and and even though Mario Williams was called a LB under pettines scheme that dude has his hand on the ground a lot. Pettine ran a hybrid 3-4 / 4-3. Assuming we even did resign spikes for 1st and second down we need more help at LB. What if Preston Brown or Bradham get hurt and are out for the season like kiko did last year. These things happen. And if we dont resign spikes then we are VERY thin at LB. Without a doubt buffalo will be addressing this in FA and the draft. They were probably going to do that anyway even if Kiko had stayed. We have no depth at the position and only 3 guaranteed starters ( assuming none of them get hurt) in a scheme that is going to require 4 starting caliber LB and I've heard as many as 5 could be on the field at one time. Oh by the way did I mention we are probably going to lose pro bowl caliber d lineman in Jerry Hughes?

[Dr. Lecter]

It's not a big chunk when you consider all the holes this team still has, plus some of it has to go to rookies (although not as much this year with no first and only 6 picks).

Plus, you are assuming that players will be willing to restructure. No, it's not illegal but it's not a given and you can't count on it happening until it does. Maybe, just maybe, the FO could have done some of hat restructuring BEFORE this trade to alleviate some of the risk of the cap commitment, but nah. That would make sense.

OK - so they have $18 million in cap space now.

Cut Urbik (not a real loss). It's up to $21 million.

So, even without restructuring that's still a good sized hunk (and you don't know that they haven't approached somebody about a resturcture. It happens all the time all around the league. It's a pretty routine thing. (which, BTW, isn't smart to do until it's necessary because you might as well take the hit if you can in the current year.)

So, with $21 million in cap space they can:

1. Sign a guard with a cap hit of 4 million. Shoul be a decent guy. Not Iupati, but a decent guard 17 million remaining)
2. Sign a TE with a hit of 4 million. Gresham? (13 million remaining)
3. Sign rookies (about 4.5 million - perhaps less but I'll use that number) (8.5 million remianing)
4. Sign a QB. This is the tricky part. Who do they get? The pickings are slim. So I'll say a hit of 6.5 million. More than Orton. ( 2 million remaining)

Of course, they can create more space. Cut Chris Williams. The re-sctructure thing. And so on.

It really isn't the end of the world.

[Dr. Lecter]

TE. we lost 3 LB's and are switching systems on D. Searcy needs to be resigned or replaced.

Don't even try and act like losing Rivers is any kind of problem

And did they really lose Alonso?

He didn't play last year. So how are they losing Alonso from last year's defense?

[swiper]

Im not saying I don't agree with the trade. However I do disagree about your statement that we are "stacked" at LB. I like Preston Brown but Nigel Bradham isn't an amazing player. Spikes could be lost in FA and and even though Mario Williams was called a LB under pettines scheme that dude has his hand on the ground a lot. Pettine ran a hybrid 3-4 / 4-3. Assuming we even did resign spikes for 1st and second down we need more help at LB. What if Preston Brown or Bradham get hurt and are out for the season like kiko did last year. These things happen. And if we dont resign spikes then we are VERY thin at LB. Without a doubt buffalo will be addressing this in FA and the draft. They were probably going to do that anyway even if Kiko had stayed. We have no depth at the position and only 3 guaranteed starters ( assuming none of them get hurt) in a scheme that is going to require 4 starting caliber LB and I've heard as many as 5 could be on the field at one time. Oh by the way did I mention we are probably going to lose pro bowl caliber d lineman in Jerry Hughes?

Manny Lawson

[swiper]

And posted an article here where Peter King posits that Rex Ryan is just biding his time here for a few days before he brings David Harris aboard.

[OpIv37]

Don't even try and act like losing Rivers is any kind of problem

And did they really lose Alonso?

He didn't play last year. So how are they losing Alonso from last year's defense?
I wasn't counting Rivers. I was counting Alonso, Spikes and Hughes assuming Hughes would be a 3-4 OLB.

[EDS]

OK - so they have $18 million in cap space now.

Cut Urbik (not a real loss). It's up to $21 million.

So, even without restructuring that's still a good sized hunk (and you don't know that they haven't approached somebody about a resturcture. It happens all the time all around the league. It's a pretty routine thing. (which, BTW, isn't smart to do until it's necessary because you might as well take the hit if you can in the current year.)

So, with $21 million in cap space they can:

1. Sign a guard with a cap hit of 4 million. Shoul be a decent guy. Not Iupati, but a decent guard 17 million remaining)
2. Sign a TE with a hit of 4 million. Gresham? (13 million remaining)
3. Sign rookies (about 4.5 million - perhaps less but I'll use that number) (8.5 million remianing)
4. Sign a QB. This is the tricky part. Who do they get? The pickings are slim. So I'll say a hit of 6.5 million. More than Orton. ( 2 million remaining)

Of course, they can create more space. Cut Chris Williams. The re-sctructure thing. And so on.

It really isn't the end of the world.

Well, in that scenario, you have (a) not replaced Hughes, Searcy or Spikes (I think those three combined for a cap hit of around $8.5 million last year), (b) still need money for restricted free agents like Hogan and Bryant, and (c) still need depth/special teams guys to replace Wynn, Rivers, Easley, etc.

[Dr. Lecter]

Well, in that scenario, you have (a) not replaced Hughes, Searcy or Spikes (I think those three combined for a cap hit of around $8.5 million last year), (b) still need money for restricted free agents like Hogan and Bryant, and (c) still need depth/special teams guys to replace Wynn, Rivers, Easley, etc.
Cassell's cap hit is 4.75.

So add another 1.8 million to my 2 million. Up to 3.8

That will take care of most of that - the RFA and ERFA don't get much, nor will replacing the guys you mentioned.

At most, they might need to create a few million of room

[EDS]

Cassell's cap hit is 4.75.

So add another 1.8 million to my 2 million. Up to 3.8

That will take care of most of that - the RFA and ERFA don't get much, nor will replacing the guys you mentioned.

At most, they might need to create a few million of room

As long as the organization is o.k. replacing three defensive starters with low cost options then your plan works.

[OpIv37]

$4.75 for Cassell- down to $13.25 already.

[Dr. Lecter]

As long as the organization is o.k. replacing three defensive starters with low cost options then your plan works.
Spikes was on the field for less than half the plays last year.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

When has this team ever not had a Pro Bowl caliber halfback? This team has invested more picks and energy at the halfback position then probably any other franchise. What has it gotten us? It hasn't gotten us to the playoffs, it's barely even gotten us to winning seasons or above average offenses.

This is this the same foolish mistake we've been making for years. We just took an expensive halfback and put him behind a garbage offensive line with no quarterback (Cassel is at best a bridge option). Its entirely backwards. Halfbacks should be like mistresses: young, cheap, and quickly replaced when either of those things change. McCoy might "only" be 27, but he's already played 6 seasons with 5 as a featured back. He might play two more years and drop off a cliff, like so many halfbacks do at age 29. If we're unlucky it might be sooner than that. Maurice Jones-Drew went from franchise halfback to a busted committee back before his 29th birthday. Ditto Chris Johnson. Ray Rice looked a little worn out in 2013, and that dude was only 26. Would people still be ecstatic about this trade if we only got two good seasons out of McCoy and then had to cut him over his cap hit?

So let's talk about his cap hit. We don't carry over his bonuses, so his cap hits are 9.75 million / 6.9 million / 7.6 million. As of 2015, with Jackson and Dixon both making 7 figures, that puts us as $14 million in cap on halfbacks. That is the second highest in the league and 10% of our total salary cap. We could mitigate that figure severely if we cut Fred Jackson, but how many people are on board with that? Meanwhile, this NFL draft is thick with halfbacks who would cost about 1/10th of McCoy's contract, on top of being 3-6 years younger.


So what about Alonso? I've read some ridiculous things on this board since the trade, like this right in the original post:

But the team is stacked at LB, and could afford to trade him.

In what way is this team "stacked" at LB? Even if you assume all our DEs are OLBs in the new scheme, our current lineup that's under contract is:
Preston Brown
Nigel Bradham
Mario Williams
Manny Lawson
Randell Johnson
Ty Powell

Johnson and Powell are nothing special, Preston Brown has never played in the 3-4 that I can find, and Bradham was (charitably) average in Pettine's scheme. I think it's also telling that people are slamming Alonso because he only played one good season, and yet convinced that Brown will be a stud even though he's only played one good season.

- - - Updated - - -


Spikes was on the field for less than half the plays last year.

And Rivers was on the field for less than 18%. But someone has to take those snaps now, and that someone is likely to be worse.

[BillsFanCupp38]

Manny Lawson

I did forget Manny Lawson but lets be honest with ourselves... Should we really even count him? He'll probably be cut by camp...

[Herd bull]

If 1,300 yard is your worst season, When you touched the ball less than 20 times a game half the season, Welcome to the team.
That is also my thinking.

[Topas]

I'm sure they'll attempt to address it. But they may not get the guys they want because FA is the player's decision in the end. As of right now, we don't have the OL to make this work and it's a huge gamble to just assume we can fix it in FA.

Ok, so that means it would have been better to first adress the O Line and then trade for Shady. Are you kidding me. You do realize that FA is just about to start and there was no draft. So they will still have a possibility to fill the holes. Even without a first rounder.
But if they had waited for that the trade might not have been available anymore. Think about that.

[better days]

its the age/cost/value equation that is a question mark to me

historically this is the season for him to start losing abilities reflected in stats. should still be highly productive for a couple seasons but is what the bills are giving up in an excellent prospect and a 7/8/9+ million salary difference the next few years worth it?

tough call. pretty much depends on what happens with the bills the next few years, as well as how well kiko does in philly. so we really wont know how good/bad a move this was for a couple seasons


I heard on WGR yesterday that the Bills are not worried about the long term for McCoy.

The Bills want production from him NOW.

[better days]

TE. we lost 3 LB's and are switching systems on D. Searcy needs to be resigned or replaced.

Manny Lawson rarely saw the field last year.

I expect him to see much more playing time in Rex's defense, like he did when Pettine was DC.

[Historian]

I think what both of these trades show is that the Bills will make any move that gets them into the post season, NOW, while this is still a top defense.

[Night Train]

I did forget Manny Lawson but lets be honest with ourselves... Should we really even count him? He'll probably be cut by camp...

I would tend to think he's the ideal standup 3-4 end/LB in many schemes, with his size. He has played well since arriving here.

[DesertFox24]

I was a little upset until I really looked into it. Fact defense and run defense was better last year and he did not play a down, fact Bradham and Brown are 3 down LB, and you do not have 3 three down LBs on the roster anymore since most teams go with 3 or 4 wr sets most of the time. Fact even if Kiko was our best LB the drop from him to Brown and Bradham is not that large, and it is even disputable that he is the best. Fact the talent drop from McCoy to Jackson/Brown/Dixon is huge, fact we are going to be a run orientated team since we don to have a QB. When looking at it like this the only bad part is the cap hit and there are many ways to manage that number.

[Historian]

I support every one of these moves so far.

I think the Bills are doing the best they can, to play the cards they have been dealt, and fill the open holes.

And they're probably not done yet.

I'm really looking forward to next fall.

[OpIv37]

I support every one of these moves so far.

I think the Bills are doing the best they can, to play the cards they have been dealt, and fill the open holes.

And they're probably not done yet.

I'm really looking forward to next fall.
They are very limited in what they can still do because of the moves they've already made. And the moves they've already made aren't good enough to create a winner on their own.

[YardRat]

They are very limited in what they can still do because of the moves they've already made. And the moves they've already made aren't good enough to create a winner on their own.

Maybe that's why there will be more.

You might as well accept that Shady's deal is going to get re-done, and there will be some cap cuts.

[OpIv37]

Maybe that's why there will be more.

You might as well accept that Shady's deal is going to get re-done, and there will be some cap cuts.

he's not going to accept less money. The only way to re-do his deal is to amortize some of his salary so it counts in future years. And he's 27- we know how RB's drop off around 30, so I really don't think it's wise to promise future cap to an aging running back. It's very Redskin-esque.

[YardRat]

Of course he isn't going to accept less, but he'll certainly take more up front as a guaranteed signing bonus over the remaining years of unguaranteed salary. His cap hit will be cut in half in pretty short order, IMO.

[Goobylal]

he's not going to accept less money. The only way to re-do his deal is to amortize some of his salary so it counts in future years. And he's 27- we know how RB's drop off around 30, so I really don't think it's wise to promise future cap to an aging running back. It's very Redskin-esque.
He's got 3 years remaining which will take him to 30. You convert some of his salary into signing bonus and save several million in cap space. Then make some cuts and restructure some others and voila!

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Of course he isn't going to accept less, but he'll certainly take more up front as a guaranteed signing bonus over the remaining years of unguaranteed salary. His cap hit will be cut in half in pretty short order, IMO.


He's got 3 years remaining which will take him to 30. You convert some of his salary into signing bonus and save several million in cap space. Then make some cuts and restructure some others and voila!

Unless he's willing to take a pay cut, restructuring doesn't make that money go away - it just pushes the cap hit from this year into subsequent years. That is the worst possible move, because the next two offseasons are critical for signing our own guys.
2016 1st tier UFA: Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore 2nd tier: Chandler, Bradham
2017 1st tier UFA: McKelvin, Woods, Kyle Williams 2nd tier: Possibly Manuel

If anything, I would frontload McCoy's deal to swallow more of his cap hit this year and have his contract # drop in the future.

[OpIv37]

Also, If restructuring is so easy, I'm still waiting to hear why Philly didn't just restructure him. He wanted to be there, the fans love him and he was still playing well.

[feldspar]

And he's 27

No he isn't.


Also, If restructuring is so easy, I'm still waiting to hear why Philly didn't just restructure him. He wanted to be there, the fans love him and he was still playing well.

So Philly didn't restructure him...what's that supposed to prove? They traded him instead.

You don't have to rob some other team blind for a trade to be worthwhile, either.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

No he isn't.

Would it make you more comfortable if we said he was 26.75 years old?

[OpIv37]

No he isn't.



So Philly didn't restructure him...what's that supposed to prove? They traded him instead.

You don't have to rob some other team blind for a trade to be worthwhile, either.
Clearly freeing up cap was one of Philly's motivations for the trade. If they could have freed up cap space with a simple restructure, then they could have their cap and still have McCoy.

If a restructure were all that easy, I'm not so sure this trade even happens.

[feldspar]

Clearly freeing up cap was one of Philly's motivations for the trade. If they could have freed up cap space with a simple restructure, then they could have their cap and still have McCoy.

If a restructure were all that easy, I'm not so sure this trade even happens.

Could it be that they wanted Alonso?

That doesn't play in?

He was my favorite player from the day we drafted him, but I can definitely see why the Bills made this move. You can't?

[feldspar]

Would it make you more comfortable if we said he was 26.75 years old?

Saying that he's 27 just isn't true. 26.75 years old isn't true either...also too high.

What do you say when someone asked how old you are? Do you round off more than 4 months? I doubt it. Dunno. Your age is your age and that's non-negotiable.

[OpIv37]

Could it be that they wanted Alonso?

That doesn't play in?

He was my favorite player from the day we drafted him, but I can definitely see why the Bills made this move. You can't?
I can't see devoting so much cap space to the easiest position on the field to fill. I can't see spending so much on an RB without first fixing the OL. I can't see trading a guy who is only going to get better for a guy who has maybe 3 good years left.

Yes RB was a need and yes we filled it, but everything comes at a price and the price was too high on this one.

[feldspar]

I can't see devoting so much cap space to the easiest position on the field to fill. I can't see spending so much on an RB without first fixing the OL. I can't see trading a guy who is only going to get better for a guy who has maybe 3 good years left.

Yes RB was a need and yes we filled it, but everything comes at a price and the price was too high on this one.

Whatever.

I'm not even going to argue with you.

Live in your quagmire...

[BertSquirtgum]

Saying that he's 27 just isn't true. 26.75 years old isn't true either...also too high.

What do you say when someone asked how old you are? Do you round off more than 4 months? I doubt it. Dunno. Your age is your age and that's non-negotiable.

My god. Some of these guys on here are such idiot children.

[OpIv37]

Whatever.

I'm not even going to argue with you.

Live in your quagmire...

It's not my quagmire. It's the quagmire this team creates for itself in this perpetual state of losing. I just comment on it.

[feldspar]

It's not my quagmire.

Sure is.

Especially when you want to adamantly take a negative slant on things that remain to be seen.

consummate *****, whiner, complainer...you name it. Talk about reality...this is it.

[BillsImpossible]

Also, If restructuring is so easy, I'm still waiting to hear why Philly didn't just restructure him. He wanted to be there, the fans love him and he was still playing well.

Because Chip Kelly has a boner for Ducks.

[Goobylal]

Unless he's willing to take a pay cut, restructuring doesn't make that money go away - it just pushes the cap hit from this year into subsequent years. That is the worst possible move, because the next two offseasons are critical for signing our own guys.
2016 1st tier UFA: Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore 2nd tier: Chandler, Bradham
2017 1st tier UFA: McKelvin, Woods, Kyle Williams 2nd tier: Possibly Manuel

If anything, I would frontload McCoy's deal to swallow more of his cap hit this year and have his contract # drop in the future.
I doubt half of those guys get re-signed. And the Bills' cap situation in those years is what matters.

Also, If restructuring is so easy, I'm still waiting to hear why Philly didn't just restructure him. He wanted to be there, the fans love him and he was still playing well.
They wanted him to take a pay cut. He refused. Who knows why they wanted him to take a pay cut, but it doesn't really matter.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Saying that he's 27 just isn't true. 26.75 years old isn't true either...also too high.

What do you say when someone asked how old you are? Do you round off more than 4 months? I doubt it. Dunno. Your age is your age and that's non-negotiable.

How many games is he playing for Buffalo before his 27th birthday?

- - - Updated - - -


I doubt half of those guys get re-signed. And the Bills' cap situation in those years is what matters.

If half those guys walk, that's a complete disaster IMO. And McCoy hurts that effort. Doubly so if we start pushing his cap hits into the future.

[YardRat]

Unless he's willing to take a pay cut, restructuring doesn't make that money go away - it just pushes the cap hit from this year into subsequent years. That is the worst possible move, because the next two offseasons are critical for signing our own guys.
2016 1st tier UFA: Dareus, Glenn, Gilmore 2nd tier: Chandler, Bradham
2017 1st tier UFA: McKelvin, Woods, Kyle Williams 2nd tier: Possibly Manuel

If anything, I would frontload McCoy's deal to swallow more of his cap hit this year and have his contract # drop in the future.

He's going to want guaranteed money, which means converting salary into signing bonus. Obviously it means pushing out the cap hit. 2016 certainly is a big year for FA's, but in all honesty 2017 isn't going to be a big deal IMO McKelvin will have played out his string, KW will be retiring, and Manuel is a long shot.

[feldspar]

How many games is he playing for Buffalo before his 27th birthday?



I get it. So this means that the players that the Bills draft in the year 2050 are all 21-years-old right now then with that logic. Nevermind that they haven't even been born yet.

How old is Shady? He's 26-years-old. It's OK to come right out and admit it.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I get it. So this means that the players that the Bills draft in the year 2050 are all 21-years-old right now then with that logic. Nevermind that they haven't even been born yet.

How old is Shady? He's 26-years-old. It's OK to come right out and admit it.

Why do you keep bringing this up like it somehow invalidates my point? He's going to be 27 years old before he plays a single game in a Bills uniform. That is a fact. If we had made the trade in July would you be ok with saying "We traded for a 27 year old halfback"?

Is this really the hill you want to die on?

[feldspar]

Why do you keep bringing this up like it somehow invalidates my point? He's going to be 27 years old before he plays a single game in a Bills uniform. That is a fact. If we had made the trade in July would you be ok with saying "We traded for a 27 year old halfback"?

Is this really the hill you want to die on?

LOL, you don't want to argue?

The man is 26-years-old. Admit it, then we'll move on. It really is undeniable.

[Night Train]

Kiko's internet legend has grown to be bigger than his actual value.

He was fantastic the first half of 2013 with 4 INT's and making tackles all over the field.

The drop off the 2nd half of that season was obvious, with his smallish frame for ILB taking it's toll. OLB was his future to save him from himself but his injury prevented us from ever seeing it. 2 major knee reconstructions in 3 years.

Bradham and Brown (much bigger LB's) emerge in his absence in 2014 and the run D improves. Then Rex is hired and a very real question of where Alonzo fits is raised. Opportunity knocked and we made a trade for an all-pro RB, which fits the plan of running the ball, game manager QB and makes the OL the focus in FA and draft weekend.

I can see this and wish nothing but the best for Kiko but the much bigger Brown and Bradham were not going to the bench to make room for him.

His legend is based on the first half of the 2013 season and coming back from another serious injury. Can't see him having a long career myself, with his physical makeup. The trade makes complete sense and cap space can be created, if needed. Bills don't have to go crazy in FA and OL help is very evident on draft weekend.

Go Bills !

[stuckincincy]

Im not saying I don't agree with the trade. However I do disagree about your statement that we are "stacked" at LB. I like Preston Brown but Nigel Bradham isn't an amazing player. Spikes could be lost in FA and and even though Mario Williams was called a LB under pettines scheme that dude has his hand on the ground a lot. Pettine ran a hybrid 3-4 / 4-3. Assuming we even did resign spikes for 1st and second down we need more help at LB. What if Preston Brown or Bradham get hurt and are out for the season like kiko did last year. These things happen. And if we dont resign spikes then we are VERY thin at LB. Without a doubt buffalo will be addressing this in FA and the draft. They were probably going to do that anyway even if Kiko had stayed. We have no depth at the position and only 3 guaranteed starters ( assuming none of them get hurt) in a scheme that is going to require 4 starting caliber LB and I've heard as many as 5 could be on the field at one time. Oh by the way did I mention we are probably going to lose pro bowl caliber d lineman in Jerry Hughes?

I've read here and there that LB is a thin position this year - FA and draft.

[Jry44]

I've read here and there that LB is a thin position this year - FA and draft.

Why stash a player like Kiko on the bench for depth when you can use him to address a huge need?

[colin]

Lol some of the fact bending here is hilarious!

We traded a 7 time all pro line backer who plays for free and is still a rookie for a 45 year running back with one leg and no skills who has a 35 million dollar cap hit !!!!!!1111ONEONE!!1

[justasportsfan]

And yet McCoy's decline is a huge cause of concern and Alonso's injury (his second to the same ACL) means nothing.

Do I have that right?


And, besides - he was a Bills draft pick

And the Bills have never made a good draft pick, amirite?

OP got beeyatch slapped

[Dr. Lecter]

I wasn't counting Rivers. I was counting Alonso, Spikes and Hughes assuming Hughes would be a 3-4 OLB.


Ok.

Here's another thing you were wrong on.

Looks Hughes isn't lost

And, despite your protests the Bills DID re-do McCoy's deal.

So, in other words, the trade wasn't the end of the world.

[OpIv37]

Ok.

Here's another thing you were wrong on.

Looks Hughes isn't lost

And, despite your protests the Bills DID re-do McCoy's deal.

So, in other words, the trade wasn't the end of the world.

It also wasn't smart for reasons I've already stated.

[Dr. Lecter]

It also wasn't smart for reasons I've already stated.

Like him coming off the worst season of his career and his 12 million cap hit?

Or it meaning the Bills can't resign Hughes?