Kiko wanted out? Guess who else doesn't want to be here....

[OpIv37]

LeSean McCoy.

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/712598

[Downinfloflo]

Why would he be happy??

His ego is crushed, He'll get over it by training camp.

[elltrain22]

McCoy is an overally honest guy. He's going to say what he wants to say. Of course he's not happy. His pride, along with his ego is crushed. Once he finds out he important he is to our team, and how much money he's going to make, he'll be a very happy camper.

[wmoz11]

No one wants to come to Buffalo until they do. See Brandon Spikes, Terrell Owens, Shawne Merriman, etc.

He'll drag himself here for his 11M - that I'm sure of.

[Dr. Lecter]

The Alonso thing was shot down by Tim Graham

And McCoy does not want to leave Philadelphia. Not the same as not wanting to come here.

Jesus - you're giving half the story and running with it on this.

[Pinkerton Security]

Negativity at its finest!!!!

[OpIv37]

You're splitting hairs. He wants to be somewhere other than here.

- - - Updated - - -


Negativity at its finest!!!!

McCoy wants to be somewhere other than here. Truth at it's finest.

[Dr. Lecter]

You're splitting hairs. He wants to be somewhere other than here.

- - - Updated - - -



McCoy wants to be somewhere other than here. Truth at it's finest.

No, I'm not

His initial reaction was that he didn't want to leave Philly. It was not "I hate Buffalo" Come on . You know the difference

I assume you think Jim Kelly was one of the Bills worst draft picks ever?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well the good news is that he doesn't have a choice, unless he retires.

[Meathead]

if its not buffalo he objects to then why would his agent be telling ppl hes not going to make it easy for buffalo? if he just wanted to stay in philly then making it hard on bflo would do nothing

he has no choice and im certain he will be fine with this after a bit, but im not sure i agree his reaction wasnt about bflo

[Forward_Lateral]

Once LeSean gets over the breakup with Philly, he'll talk to Rex and realize he's going to have a chance to lead the league in rushing again. Plus, he'll have nobody breathing down his neck besides Fred Jackson, who is the ultimate team player.

[Night Train]

Oh brother.

I read the comments and he's frustrated 10 minutes after being traded. A natural reaction.

A reach of epic proportions.

[Skooby]

What do you think about having to change your whole life LeSean ?? That's the question 5 minutes after he gets the news, was his first reaction supposed to be thank God it's Buffalo ?

[Dr. Lecter]

if its not buffalo he objects to then why would his agent be telling ppl hes not going to make it easy for buffalo? if he just wanted to stay in philly then making it hard on bflo would do nothing

he has no choice and im certain he will be fine with this after a bit, but im not sure i agree his reaction wasnt about bflo

Did you read it?

Supposedly the problem is leaving PA. He's played there since HS.

[SpikedLemonade]

When he finds out first hand about The Buffalo Economic Renaissance Miracle (BERM), he will run all the way to Buffalo.

[Night Train]

Did you read it?

Supposedly the problem is leaving PA. He's played there since HS.

Have his older clone Thurman pick him up at the airport.

He'll have a whole new outlook before reaching the stadium parking lot.

[SpikedLemonade]

Have his older clone Thurman pick him up at the airport.

He'll have a whole new outlook before reaching the stadium parking lot.

Unless you drive him through the east side of downtown.

[OpIv37]

Once LeSean gets over the breakup with Philly, he'll talk to Rex and realize he's going to have a chance to lead the league in rushing again. Plus, he'll have nobody breathing down his neck besides Fred Jackson, who is the ultimate team player.
Nobody is leading the league in rushing on a team with a shoddy OL and no qb. I'm sure LeSean can't wait for all those 8 and 9 man fronts he's going to see....

[wmoz11]

Nobody is leading the league in rushing on a team with a shoddy OL and no qb. I'm sure LeSean can't wait for all those 8 and 9 man fronts he's going to see....

I hope to God he does see that, because it'll make our **** QBs A LOT better. Again, that's why you get a dominant RB when you don't have a QB.

[OpIv37]

I hope to God he does see that, because it'll make our **** QBs A LOT better. Again, that's why you get a dominant RB when you don't have a QB.

No RB is going to make EJ accurate.

[wmoz11]

No RB is going to make EJ accurate.

It can make him MORE accurate, though. Just get him to average and that helps a lot. It's also a lot easier to be accurate with fewer defenders running in the secondary. More room for error.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Chip Kelly's offense is incredible for speed backs, and the Eagles have three pro bowl linemen.

Why are people thinking this is a better opportunity for him in Buffalo?

[BleedinGreenNC]

Chip Kelly's offense is incredible for speed backs, and the Eagles have three pro bowl linemen.

Why are people thinking this is a better opportunity for him in Buffalo?

Because Cassel is your QB now!!

[Mr. Miyagi]

I'm really getting tired of Op's BS...

[OpIv37]

I'm really getting tired of Op's BS...

It's not BS- it's the truth.

Everyone freaks and says it was good to lose Kiko because he didn't want to be here, yet the same people completely blow it off and make excuses when a guy who's here now says the same thing. It's complete insanity.

[Dr. Lecter]

It's not BS- it's the truth.

Everyone freaks and says it was good to lose Kiko because he didn't want to be here, yet the same people completely blow it off and make excuses when a guy who's here now says the same thing. It's complete insanity.


I'll repeat - the he wanted out thing was shot down by Graham. So that wasn't true.

And it's not the same. There is a difference between "I don't want to be in Buffalo" and "I don't want to leave Philadelphia"

Not to mention, in your line of thinking, Jim Kelly was a bad pick.

Finally, there's been a lot of things you've said that has been proven to be demonstratably false.

[OpIv37]

I'll repeat - the he wanted out thing was shot down by Graham. So that wasn't true.

And it's not the same. There is a difference between "I don't want to be in Buffalo" and "I don't want to leave Philadelphia"

Not to mention, in your line of thinking, Jim Kelly was a bad pick.

Finally, there's been a lot of things you've said that has been proven to be demonstratably false.

I made one or two minor mistakes- I said it was McCoy's worst year last year- it wasn't , but it was a decline. I was off by a couple million on the cap hit. That doesn't change the fact that McCoy's numbers went down or the fact that it's too big a cap hit for an RB. The things I said that were proven false were minor things that don't affect the overall point or invalidate the conclusion.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'll repeat - the he wanted out thing was shot down by Graham. So that wasn't true.

And it's not the same. There is a difference between "I don't want to be in Buffalo" and "I don't want to leave Philadelphia"

Not to mention, in your line of thinking, Jim Kelly was a bad pick.

Finally, there's been a lot of things you've said that has been proven to be demonstratably false.

Jim Kelly literally fled to a different league to avoid Buffalo, and had that league not folded so quickly he might not have come back.

[Dr. Lecter]

I made one or two minor mistakes- I said it was McCoy's worst year last year- it wasn't , but it was a decline. I was off by a couple million on the cap hit. That doesn't change the fact that McCoy's numbers went down or the fact that it's too big a cap hit for an RB. The things I said that were proven false were minor things that don't affect the overall point or invalidate the conclusion.


It was a decline from his best season when he led the NFL in total yardage. It was natural he would have a lesser season. So, once again it's not putting that statement in context.

You also continue to ignore that there are some good things in this trade.

[OpIv37]

It was a decline from his best season when he led the NFL in total yardage. It was natural he would have a lesser season. So, once again it's not putting that statement in context.

You also continue to ignore that there are some good things in this trade.

The good is negated by our lack of OL and drastically reduced ability to improve it.

[PromoTheRobot]

You're splitting hairs. He wants to be somewhere other than here.

- - - Updated - - -



McCoy wants to be somewhere other than here. Truth at it's finest.

I feel sorry for you , man. You're whole Bills-hating world is crumbling.

[OpIv37]

I feel sorry for you , man. You're whole Bills-hating world is crumbling.

It's not about me. It's about whether the team is making good or bad moves, and these are bad moves.

[yordad]

This has to have been said but seriously... an unnamed source who knows him was quoted by some woman I never heard of and you expect me to believe this is how he feels?

[Meathead]

yeah i see that now. it was being reported early at tbd i think that it was his agent telling ppl they would make it difficult for bflo but it was actually just some guy who knew him. now hes settled down and says hes ready to move on so looks like its all cool now

[jamze132]

I made one or two minor mistakes- I said it was McCoy's worst year last year- it wasn't , but it was a decline. I was off by a couple million on the cap hit. That doesn't change the fact that McCoy's numbers went down or the fact that it's too big a cap hit for an RB. The things I said that were proven false were minor things that don't affect the overall point or invalidate the conclusion.

About Shady's decline...

He didn't get as many opportunities on 3rd and short or goal-to-go situations last year under Chip Kelly. I don't think he really regressed at all to be honest. I think his back-ups took 7 TD chances away from Shady last year inside the 5 yd line. Simply looking at the talent, he's well above what we had last year, even with Kyle ****ing Orton slinging rocks. I think we'll win another game or two just by adding his talent.

[Fixxxer]

OpIV37 = Jerry Sullivan = boring

[sdbillsfan2]

wasn't there a QB back in the 80's who didn't want to be here as well? Jim something I think . Wonder what ever happened to him and where he is today ?

- - - Updated - - -

[imbondz]

if its not buffalo he objects to then why would his agent be telling ppl hes not going to make it easy for buffalo? if he just wanted to stay in philly then making it hard on bflo would do nothing

he has no choice and im certain he will be fine with this after a bit, but im not sure i agree his reaction wasnt about bflo

agreed. I read the article and how is this not objecting to coming to Buffalo (if it's true he said it) ---> He added that a move to Buffalo may not go smoothly and that McCoy is "not going to make it easy, that's for sure."

[DynaPaul]

His agent is Drew Rosenhaus the loudmouth. Consider that.

[Meathead]

i think tho that it wasnt actually the agent that said that, just some guy who knew mccoy and was there when he was venting. but im not sure and frankly im losing interest in this whole portion of the situation. it doesnt really matter, he will come to bflo and he will wind up happy

[swiper]

You might find this interesting:


Ian Rapoport (https://twitter.com/RapSheet)✔ @RapSheet (https://twitter.com/RapSheet)

Interested to learn trading #Bills (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash) LB Kiko Alonso was one of the first things Rex Ryan wanted to do when hired. Perhaps not a scheme fit

[YardRat]

They'll renegotiate his contract and give him a nice chunk up front and once he gets to know Freddie and a few others he'll be just fine.

Personally I hope he is pissed and uses the trade as incentive...Thurman Thomas-type pissed, not Cyrus Kouandijo-type pissed...and takes it out on both the AFC and NFC East divisions.

[psubills62]

A source close to LeSean McCoy told the Philadelphia Inquirer that McCoy is "ready to move on" after initially being "frustrated" over his trade to Buffalo.

It's good news for the Bills, although McCoy's contract may become the next obstacle. There is some belief he may want money added to the deal, or for guarantees to be added in future years. Just $1 million of McCoy's 2015 salary of $9.75 million is guaranteed. His 2016 salary of $6.9 million is without any guarantees. McCoy has $350,000 more in bonuses in each year.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5168/lesean-mccoy

[Novacane]

lol

[IlluminatusUIUC]

lol

It's amazing how giving a guy an extra $25 million guaranteed and 14 nominal can smooth over hurt feelings.

[Novacane]

It's amazing how people overreact and just know that wasn't going to happen!

[OpIv37]

It's amazing how people overreact and just know that wasn't going to happen!

Not an overreaction at all. We still spent too much on an RB, and now we pushed off a lot of the cost until he's older and a higher risk. We still spent big on an RB without first fixing the OL. We still gave up a promising young player. And we still have no QB so the expensive RB is going to be running into 8 and 9 man fronts all season.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It's amazing how people overreact and just know that wasn't going to happen!

I thought the team was smart enough not to pick up a 7th year running back. They proved me wrong. I thought they were smart enough not to give said back big money. They proved me wrong again.

[Dr. Lecter]

Not an overreaction at all. We still spent too much on an RB, and now we pushed off a lot of the cost until he's older and a higher risk. We still spent big on an RB without first fixing the OL. We still gave up a promising young player. And we still have no QB so the expensive RB is going to be running into 8 and 9 man fronts all season.

Yes it was an overreaction

From saying he didn't want to come here to saying that he wouldn't re-do his deal to now making a big deal that they got a RB before the Oline (hint - the RB was available first).

It might not work out, but you flew off the handle.

Butch up and admit it

[DraftBoy]

I thought the team was smart enough not to pick up a 7th year running back. They proved me wrong. I thought they were smart enough not to give said back big money. They proved me wrong again.

So you're really going to go all in on this? All right, we shall see how this plays out. I don't get it, but I wish you well.

[OpIv37]

Yes it was an overreaction

From saying he didn't want to come here to saying that he wouldn't re-do his deal to now making a big deal that they got a RB before the Oline (hint - the RB was available first).

It might not work out, but you flew off the handle.

Butch up and admit it
I never said he wouldn't redo his deal. I said it wasn't safe to assume that it was going to happen. And even with the redone deal, this is still a hugely risky move. And there is no guarantee that we can upgrade the OL, and the RB is useless without an OL upgrade. So the RB being available first doesnt make the move any smarter.

[DraftBoy]

I never said he wouldn't redo his deal. I said it wasn't safe to assume that it was going to happen. And even with the redone deal, this is still a hugely risky move. And there is no guarantee that we can upgrade the OL, and the RB is useless without an OL upgrade. So the RB being available first doesnt make the move any smarter.

But it was safe to assume it, anybody who bothered to look into it, understood that the deal was going to get reworked. McCoy was very open to reworking the deal to lower the cap number but he was not open to taking a pay cut. That's a cop out response and you know it.

[BertSquirtgum]

LeSean McCoy.

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/712598

OMG. Shut up.

http://buf.247sports.com/Bolt/LeSean-McCoy-to-Bills-fans-Cant-wait-to-see-yall-36069230

[OpIv37]

But it was safe to assume it, anybody who bothered to look into it, understood that the deal was going to get reworked. McCoy was very open to reworking the deal to lower the cap number but he was not open to taking a pay cut. That's a cop out response and you know it.

Yeah lower cap number this year without a pay cut means higher cap numbers later when he's older and an even bigger risk.

[Buffalogic]

His cap numbers are very reasonable op. There's really nothing to be mad at this is a win man.

[Dr. Lecter]

I never said he wouldn't redo his deal. I said it wasn't safe to assume that it was going to happen. And even with the redone deal, this is still a hugely risky move. And there is no guarantee that we can upgrade the OL, and the RB is useless without an OL upgrade. So the RB being available first doesnt make the move any smarter.

Ye Gods.

You don't listen to yourself.

It was a safe assumption it would happen. His current deal had virtually no guaranteed money. He was going to want that.

And of course there is no guarantee they can upgrade the line. Thing is they wanted to upgrade both. Since free agency hasn't started, they got a RB via trade (although not officially until Tuesday) a few days ago.

The RB opportunity came along first. I guess they could've waited and lost that opportunity but that does not sound smart to me.

I just don't see how this is a "hugely risky move"

And, before you say I'm not objective:

1. I'm saying let's see how it works out.

2. Know pessimists like Jerry Sullivan and Wys are saying the same thing.

You won't even give the deal a chance or wait and see what other moves they make before jumping off a cliff.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah lower cap number this year without a pay cut means higher cap numbers later when he's older and an even bigger risk.

Which has nothing to do with you saying it wasn't safe to assume he would rework the deal. Stop trying to shift the topic of conversation.

[OpIv37]

Yeah the old "wait and see" approach again.... Every year. Every ****ing year. The team makes a bad move, I point out that it's a bad move, people tell me to wait and see and then we suck on the field. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah the old "wait and see" approach again.... Every year. Every ****ing year. The team makes a bad move, I point out that it's a bad move, people tell me to wait and see and then we suck on the field. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Worked out really well by assuming McCoy wouldn't rework his deal, now didn't it?

[BertSquirtgum]

Yeah the old "wait and see" approach again.... Every year. Every ****ing year. The team makes a bad move, I point out that it's a bad move, people tell me to wait and see and then we suck on the field. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Do you cry this much when you're having sex too?

[OpIv37]

Which has nothing to do with you saying it wasn't safe to assume he would rework the deal. Stop trying to shift the topic of conversation.

It wasn't safe to assume. He couldn't rework his deal in Philly. He was under no obligation to do it. And he said he was going to make things difficult for Buffalo.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yeah the old "wait and see" approach again.... Every year. Every ****ing year. The team makes a bad move, I point out that it's a bad move, people tell me to wait and see and then we suck on the field. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Yes.

They have never made a good move.

NEVER.

And the fact that you used more than one reason that has been shown to be wrong means nothing, does it?

[DraftBoy]

It wasn't safe to assume. He couldn't rework his deal in Philly. He was under no obligation to do it. And he said he was going to make things difficult for Buffalo.

It absolutely was, you can argue till your blue in the face but you have not one fact to back up that opinion. You know that and I know that.

[OpIv37]

Worked out really well by assuming McCoy wouldn't rework his deal, now didn't it?

Once again. I didn't assume he wouldnt. I simply said others were wrong to assume he would for reasons I already stated.

[DraftBoy]

Once again. I didn't assume he wouldnt. I simply said others were wrong to assume he would for reasons I already stated.

Sure, sure.

[OpIv37]

It absolutely was, you can argue till your blue in the face but you have not one fact to back up that opinion. You know that and I know that.

I just gave you three facts and you said I have no facts. Please.

[Dr. Lecter]

It wasn't safe to assume. He couldn't rework his deal in Philly. He was under no obligation to do it. And he said he was going to make things difficult for Buffalo.

Not exactly.

There was one report that he wasn't happy about being traded from Pennsylvania immediately after the trade.

And that subsided within a day.

He flew off the handle and over reacted. And then backed off.

So, yes it was safe to assume that he would re-do his deal for the simple reason he had no bonus money coming.

[DraftBoy]

I just gave you three facts and you said I have no facts. Please.

No, you didn't. Despite what you may think your opinion about his motivation is not fact.

[OpIv37]

Yes.

They have never made a good move.

NEVER.

And the fact that you used more than one reason that has been shown to be wrong means nothing, does it?
And I already showed you that the things I was wrong about didn't invalidate my points. And there have been moves that I liked- Mario Williams, for example.

[Dr. Lecter]

And I already showed you that the things I was wrong about didn't invalidate my points. And there have been moves that I liked- Mario Williams, for example.

and on this move, a move that even the two most negative people in the world like or are willing to give a chance, you aren't willing to say there is anything good about.

Doesn't that strike you odd?

that maybe, just maybe, this isn't the second coming of drafting Maybin?

[DraftBoy]

It wasn't safe to assume. He couldn't rework his deal in Philly. He was under no obligation to do it. And he said he was going to make things difficult for Buffalo.

OP's facts:
1. He couldn't rework his deal in Philly - False, he openly said he was willing to rework his deal but not take a paycut. Philly didn't offer a new deal they traded him instead.
2. He was under no obligation to renegotiate - True, but he had tons of motivation due to a lack of guaranteed money left on his current deal.
3. He said he was going to make things difficult for Buffalo - False, he never made those statements. Those came from people within his circle.

[OpIv37]

No, you didn't. Despite what you may think your opinion about his motivation is not fact.
I didn't state opinions about his motivation.

Fact: he was under no obligation to re work his deal. Fact: he couldnt rework His deal with Philky. Fact:it was reported that he said he was going to make things difficult for Buffalo. I don't know of it is true but it was reported.

[DraftBoy]

I didn't state opinions about his motivation.

Fact: he was under no obligation to re work his deal. Fact: he couldnt rework His deal with Philky. Fact:it was reported that he said he was going to make things difficult for Buffalo. I don't know of it is true but it was reported.

Already tore these apart. You're badly reaching and you know it.

[OpIv37]

and on this move, a move that even the two most negative people in the world like or are willing to give a chance, you aren't willing to say there is anything good about.

Doesn't that strike you odd?

that maybe, just maybe, this isn't the second coming of drafting Maybin?


It looks bad to me for reasons I already stated. i don't base my opinion on Sullivan or Wy's.

[Dr. Lecter]

I didn't state opinions about his motivation.

Fact: he was under no obligation to re work his deal. Fact: he couldnt rework His deal with Philky. Fact:it was reported that he said he was going to make things difficult for Buffalo. I don't know of it is true but it was reported.

1. True. But it was also very beneficial for him to do so. Something that was pointed out to you numerous times without one acknowledgement that it was true.
2. He could. They wanted him to take a pay cut. Very different things
3. Well, that's been covered. he was initially pissed about being moved anywhere. Then was fine with it the next day

[Dr. Lecter]

It looks bad to me for reasons I already stated. i don't base my opinion on Sullivan or Wy's.

You're missing the point.

You're not even looking at the points others have made.

And many of your points are based about assumptions on what happens in the future. Of which, you don't know what will happen. Not do I.

[OpIv37]

Already tore these apart. You're badly reaching and you know it.

No you didn't. You dont know what Philly did or didn't offer him and you don't know if he really made those comments any more than I do. All we know is what was reported and you are summarily dismissing it without facts.

- - - Updated - - -


You're missing the point.

You're not even looking at the points others have made.

And many of your points are based about assumptions on what happens in the future. Of which, you don't know what will happen. Not do I.


I looked at the points others made, as I always do. And I believe the reasons to have concerns about this deal far outweigh the good.

[Dr. Lecter]

So it's OK for you to accept them without facts, but it's not OK for us to question them?

Got it.

Sounds Patti-ish. But I've got it......

[Dr. Lecter]

I looked at the points others made, as I always do. And I believe the reasons to have concerns about this deal far outweigh the good.

And as the points get chipped away, are you changing your mind at all?

[DraftBoy]

No you didn't. You dont know what Philly did or didn't offer him and you don't know if he really made those comments any more than I do. All we know is what was reported and you are summarily dismissing it without facts.

So its safe for you to assume he couldn't work out a deal and that he said those things (despite reports to the contrary), but not fair for others to assume things. You are absolutely hysterical tonight.

Nothing you state as facts was reported. Nobody and I mean nobody reported he couldn't work out his deal with Philly, and nobody reported that McCoy said any of what you are claiming he did.

If you think you're right please post the links to the reports. You can't because they don't exist. But please continue with this charade.

[paladin warrior]

WTF. Just 1 day . He is already complaining. Geez McCoy . Go take a chill pills . cry out loud

[OpIv37]

And as the points get chipped away, are you changing your mind at all?

They haven't been chipped away. We still gave big money to an RB with high mileage who will be over the hill before the contract ends. We still spent big on an RB without first fixing the OL. We still gave up a promising young player.

- - - Updated - - -


So its safe for you to assume he couldn't work out a deal and that he said those things (despite reports to the contrary), but not fair for others to assume things. You are absolutely hysterical tonight.

Nothing you state as facts was reported. Nobody and I mean nobody reported he couldn't work out his deal with Philly, and nobody reported that McCoy said any of what you are claiming he did.

If you think you're right please post the links to the reports. You can't because they don't exist. But please continue with this charade.
I posted the link to start this thread...

[YardRat]

Jeezus Op just give it up...your pre-*****ing got your lunch eaten, just man up and grow a pair and take it.

http://www.supplementalconditions.com/files/2011/05/carolina-basketball-rejected.jpg

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Op made this thread operating under the assumption that McCoy wouldn't agree to a simple restructuring. What he got was a massive pay raise.

Why in the world wouldn't McCoy accept another 25 guaranteed million? If you keep burying someone in sacks of cash, eventually they'll relent and McCoy did. Yippeeeee

[DraftBoy]

Op made this thread operating under the assumption that McCoy wouldn't agree to a simple restructuring. What he got was a massive pay raise.

Why in the world wouldn't McCoy accept another 25 guaranteed million? If you keep burying someone in sacks of cash, eventually they'll relent and McCoy did. Yippeeeee

What is the definition of a "simple restructuring" exactly based on the NFL scale?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What is the definition of a "simple restructuring" exactly based on the NFL scale?

Converting some of his 2015 base salary to signing bonus without giving him a pay raise.

[DraftBoy]

Converting some of his 2015 base salary to signing bonus without giving him a pay raise.

And the incentive for him to do that was?

And please don't respond with to guarantee money because we all know the Bills were never going to trade for him and cut him this year.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And the incentive for him to do that was?

And please don't respond with to guarantee money because we all know the Bills were never going to trade for him and cut him this year.

Players do it all the time if they actually like the team and want to remain with them. We could also have guaranteed some of his base salary in years 2-3, which would have given him more long term security as well as short term money.

If he wouldn't agree to that, I would have told him to GFH and play under the contract he signed, or void the Eagles deal. The contract as written was bad enough, but at least it was short and the biggest cap hit was today. Now it's both bad and long.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Do we really have a 5-page thread arguing whether or not Op is right?

Why is the whole world revolving around whether or not Op is right?

[PromoTheRobot]

LeSean McCoy.

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/712598

I actually feel bad for you, man. Your whole world must be collapsing around you.

[OpIv37]

Do we really have a 5-page thread arguing whether or not Op is right?

Why is the whole world revolving around whether or not Op is right?

No one forced you to read it...

[wmoz11]

Man, I NEVER get tired of reading Op arguments. Heavy on circular logic with some moving-of-the-goalposts sprinkled in and just a pinch of back-tracking. If only that wasn't the recipe for wrong.

[Mr. Miyagi]

No one forced you to read it...
Actually yes. I mod this forum. :ill:

[OpIv37]

Man, I NEVER get tired of reading Op arguments. Heavy on circular logic with some moving-of-the-goalposts sprinkled in and just a pinch of back-tracking. If only that wasn't the recipe for wrong.

And yet the team sucks on the field every year. Hmmmmmm.....

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I love your posts (usually) OP, but in this thread you are acting like those 90 year old Japanese soldiers who refuse to admit WW2 is over. Just bow out and admit you're wrong.

[psubills62]

And yet the team sucks on the field every year. Hmmmmmm.....
Is 9 wins sucking?

[OpIv37]

Is 9 wins sucking?

So I was wrong once in all the years this website was in existence. It's amazing how everyone forgets all the times I said the team would suck when they actually sucked because of one time that I got it wrong.

[Dr. Lecter]

Isn't that the most recent year with the team closest to what it is now?

[psubills62]

So I was wrong once in all the years this website was in existence. It's amazing how everyone forgets all the times I said the team would suck when they actually sucked because of one time that I got it wrong.
My point was that you still seem to think of them as the same old Bills, to the point where you can't even recall that they actually finished with a decent record just a couple months ago. This isn't the same old Bills. And I'm not saying you can't criticize the moves - they aren't perfect by any means - but maybe open your mind to the possibility that they are going in the right direction. Let's wait and see what they do in FA and the draft.

[OpIv37]

My point was that you still seem to think of them as the same old Bills, to the point where you can't even recall that they actually finished with a decent record just a couple months ago. This isn't the same old Bills. And I'm not saying you can't criticize the moves - they aren't perfect by any means - but maybe open your mind to the possibility that they are going in the right direction. Let's wait and see what they do in FA and the draft.

One 9 win season and you're convinced it's not the same old Bills? Seems like you are starting with the conclusion then looking for evidence to justify it. Remember, a mediocre coach who no one wanted just walked away from ahead coaching gig with us. We are probably off without him, but the HC quitting like that is not a sign of a highly functioning organization.

And we won't be doing anything in the draft because we only have 6 picks and only 3 in the first 5 rounds. Again, not a sign of a highly functioning organization.

[Ginger Vitis]

And we won't be doing anything in the draft because we only have 6 picks and only 3 in the first 5 rounds.

Sounds like you're contradicting yourself there. Or you think the draft is a waste of time after the 1st round

[OpIv37]

Sounds like you're contradicting yourself there. Or you think the draft is a waste of time after the 1st round
What contradiction?

[psubills62]

One 9 win season and you're convinced it's not the same old Bills? Seems like you are starting with the conclusion then looking for evidence to justify it. Remember, a mediocre coach who no one wanted just walked away from ahead coaching gig with us. We are probably off without him, but the HC quitting like that is not a sign of a highly functioning organization.

And we won't be doing anything in the draft because we only have 6 picks and only 3 in the first 5 rounds. Again, not a sign of a highly functioning organization.
Not just because of the wins. Because they're making good moves. Because they are re-signing talent, because they're being aggressive, because they are clearly looking to spend up to the cap. Because they are acting like a team that's trying to win for the first time in years. Another sign that has been severely lacking before Marrone's tenure is that they are paying for coaching.

We've found first year starters after the first round in each draft under Whaley. And frankly, if we get 1-2 OL in FA, the draft is mostly gravy. They're in a position where they can draft for the future to replace any talent they can't sign. Which is a sign of a highly functioning organization.

[OpIv37]

Not just because of the wins. Because they're making good moves. Because they are re-signing talent, because they're being aggressive, because they are clearly looking to spend up to the cap. Because they are acting like a team that's trying to win for the first time in years. Another sign that has been severely lacking before Marrone's tenure is that they are paying for coaching.

We've found first year starters after the first round in each draft under Whaley. And frankly, if we get 1-2 OL in FA, the draft is mostly gravy. They're in a position where they can draft for the future to replace any talent they can't sign. Which is a sign of a highly functioning organization.

That's a big IF, especially considering the best OL already went off the market. They're not in a position to draft for the future until they do something about OL and TE and replacing Searcy, and they need to be thinking about 3-4 defenders, particularly NT. And even if they were truly in a position to draft for the future, how much talent do you think we are going to find with half our picks in rounds 6 and 7? There aren't going to be any Mario Williams replacements hanging around that late.

[psubills62]

That's a big IF, especially considering the best OL already went off the market. They're not in a position to draft for the future until they do something about OL and TE and replacing Searcy, and they need to be thinking about 3-4 defenders, particularly NT. And even if they were truly in a position to draft for the future, how much talent do you think we are going to find with half our picks in rounds 6 and 7? There aren't going to be any Mario Williams replacements hanging around that late.
It's not that big of an if. Oh my, one OL signed? Whatever will we do. I'm sure with our current stud OL, we're never going to find anyone outside of Iupati who will help improve it.

Dareus isn't an NT? He did pretty well there the last time he played the position. TE isn't a high priority position, and I've never heard of "in-the-box" safeties being hard to replace.

Yes, they can and will draft for the future. Even top teams don't have great players at every position. They will need to replace talent that they can't sign to major contracts, and they can look ahead to doing that this year. Yeah, it sucks they don't have a ton of picks or a first rounder, but they can still find talent.

[OpIv37]

It's not that big of an if. Oh my, one OL signed? Whatever will we do. I'm sure with our current stud OL, we're never going to find anyone outside of Iupati who will help improve it.

Dareus isn't an NT? He did pretty well there the last time he played the position. TE isn't a high priority position, and I've never heard of "in-the-box" safeties being hard to replace.

Yes, they can and will draft for the future. Even top teams don't have great players at every position. They will need to replace talent that they can't sign to major contracts, and they can look ahead to doing that this year. Yeah, it sucks they don't have a ton of picks or a first rounder, but they can still find talent.
If they don't have top players at every position, then they can't draft for the future. They have to draft to fill holes.

And yes, TE is a priority. When you have weak QB's and a questionable OL, a good TE goes a long way. The Bills are either the last team in the league to see the value of TE, or completely inept at finding one.

And yes, one OL off the market hurts. It means the supply is already lower. There are only so many good ones to go around.

[psubills62]

If they don't have top players at every position, then they can't draft for the future. They have to draft to fill holes.
That simply isn't true.


And yes, TE is a priority. When you have weak QB's and a questionable OL, a good TE goes a long way. The Bills are either the last team in the league to see the value of TE, or completely inept at finding one.
Yeah, because so many playoff teams have put a high priority on TE. A TE is not a high priority position because OL is. Upgrade the OL and suddenly you don't have a questionable OL, which means a good TE doesn't go a long way. Tell me - which of these positions would you place TE above in the priority pecking order? QB, RB, OL, WR, CB, S, DT, DE, LB. I'd say maybe RB, personally. That's about it.


And yes, one OL off the market hurts. It means the supply is already lower. There are only so many good ones to go around.
And there are only so many teams who are going to push to sign them.

[psubills62]

Op, I really question your views on roster management, and I think that's where the vast majority of my disagreements with you stem from. Teams simply cannot have top players at every position. Seattle didn't even when they were (maybe still are, don't know) paying Wilson peanuts. NE doesn't have it. None of the playoff teams have top players everywhere, and they don't actually need them everywhere to win a SB. In reality, you can't afford to have top players everywhere. Here is the real strategy:

Draft well and draft for the coaching strengths (systems, etc.).
Sign the core talent. This means guys who play crucial roles in the offense or defense and guys who are very talented. Usually this is around 8 different players.
If you are able, sign a few free agents to fill in. Every great team has varying success with FA, but personally I've never been a fan of signing Tier 1 FA's through it. Prefer Tier 2 or Tier 3 veterans and role players.
At positions where you don't have core talent, you either have young draftees who are cheap or role players who fit the system well.

For a long time Buffalo has had problems with all these areas. But they are finally 1) drafting well. Not perfectly, but well. 2) Signing core talent. They're still going to have to let some of it go at some point, but at this point they are keeping it. 3) Signing a few free agents to fill in, like we did with Brandon Spikes last year. 4) And we have young guys like Preston Brown, Seantrel Henderson, and Sammy Watkins stepping up for cheap.

[OpIv37]

That simply isn't true.


Yeah, because so many playoff teams have put a high priority on TE. A TE is not a high priority position because OL is. Upgrade the OL and suddenly you don't have a questionable OL, which means a good TE doesn't go a long way. Tell me - which of these positions would you place TE above in the priority pecking order? QB, RB, OL, WR, CB, S, DT, DE, LB. I'd say maybe RB, personally. That's about it.


And there are only so many teams who are going to push to sign them.

Are you talking about in general, or for the Bills right now? For the Bills right now, I'd put TE over anything except OL. And just for the record, the team that won the SB had the best TE in the league. And they would have had two of the best if Hernandez didn't go all GTA.

And yes, it is true about the drafting, unless you are willing to accept holes without even attempting to address them.

[psubills62]

Are you talking about in general, or for the Bills right now? For the Bills right now, I'd put TE over anything except OL. And just for the record, the team that won the SB had the best TE in the league. And they would have had two of the best if Hernandez didn't go all GTA.

And yes, it is true about the drafting, unless you are willing to accept holes without even attempting to address them.
I mean in the grand scheme of football, where do you prioritize TE?

It's not as simple as saying you have a hole or a top player. There are players who aren't top players but they fit a system or fill a role very well. One of NE's starting DL was Chris Jones and starting LB was Jamie Collins. Are they holes because they aren't top players in the NFL?

And the team that won the Super Bowl last year had jack squat at TE. Using one team who literally built their system around a top TE doesn't prove anything. Plenty of teams have success without top TE's.

[GingerP]

One of NE's starting DL was Chris Jones and starting LB was Jamie Collins. Are they holes because they aren't top players in the NFL?

You have a point with Jones, but Collins is an emerging star.

[psubills62]

You have a point with Jones, but Collins is an emerging star.
Maybe he is. There's plenty more players NE has who aren't top players. Pick any of their RB's. Or WR's. It's simply an example. Even the top teams don't have top players at every position, that can be shown no matter what team you pick. A lot of these guys work well as a team and in that system. That's how you build a great team.

[DraftBoy]

I mean in the grand scheme of football, where do you prioritize TE?

It's not as simple as saying you have a hole or a top player. There are players who aren't top players but they fit a system or fill a role very well. One of NE's starting DL was Chris Jones and starting LB was Jamie Collins. Are they holes because they aren't top players in the NFL?

And the team that won the Super Bowl last year had jack squat at TE. Using one team who literally built their system around a top TE doesn't prove anything. Plenty of teams have success without top TE's.

Jamie Collins is quickly becoming one of the top LB's in football. His ability to play the run, cover the pass, and rush the passer are huge assets for the Pats.

Many have compared Chris Jones to Kyle Williams in terms of skill set, and workman like attitude.

[YardRat]

One 9 win season and you're convinced it's not the same old Bills? Seems like you are starting with the conclusion then looking for evidence to justify it. Remember, a mediocre coach who no one wanted just walked away from ahead coaching gig with us. We are probably off without him, but the HC quitting like that is not a sign of a highly functioning organization.

And we won't be doing anything in the draft because we only have 6 picks and only 3 in the first 5 rounds. Again, not a sign of a highly functioning organization.

In this case it's more likely a sign of a dysfunctional individual within the organization, and number/placement of draft picks alone is not an indication of functionality at all.

[OpIv37]

In this case it's more likely a sign of a dysfunctional individual within the organization, and number/placement of draft picks alone is not an indication of functionality at all.

Spending two first round picks on on WR with no QB and a below average OL most certainly is an indication of functionality.

[EricStratton]

Just keep moving the goal line.

[OpIv37]

Just keep moving the goal line.

Spending two first round draft picks on Watkins is the main reason why we have so few picks this year, and I've been saying that the OL was the problem all along. It isn't moving the goal line at all.

[EricStratton]

Starting with Kiko wanting out and McCoy not wanting in and moving to "of course he want to be here, we threw a ton of cash at him" to we overpaid for a WR in the draft to our OL is weak all in the same thread in the very definition of moving the goalposts.

[OpIv37]

Starting with Kiko wanting out and McCoy not wanting in and moving to "of course he want to be here, we threw a ton of cash at him" to we overpaid for a WR in the draft to our OL is weak all in the same thread in the very definition of moving the goalposts.

I only mentioned Kiko wanting out because other people were using it in a pathetic attempt to justify the trade- it's the same excuse used every time a good player is no longer here. I never said that McCoy wanted to be here after we threw a bunch of cash at him- that was someone else.

And my whole complaint from the beginning about McCoy was that it limited our ability to address the OL. And we still haven't addressed the OL. Maybe it is because of McCoy and maybe it isn't, but for whatever reason, it hasn't been done.

I only brought up the draft stuff when other people said we could address OL in the draft, yet we have very limited draft picks largely as a result of the Watkins trade.

[Dr. Lecter]

It isn't because of McCoy. They have 17 million in cap space with the ability to create more.

[OpIv37]

It isn't because of McCoy. They have 17 million in cap space with the ability to create more.

You said they had $15 million yesterday, and that was before Felton. Make up your mind.

And if they have enough cap to fix the OL, then why are they sitting on their hands as other teams sign quality offensive linemen? It's our biggest need, and not having a good OL negates McCoy, Watkins, and Cassel. Yet, they've done nothing about it except sign Incognito.

[Dr. Lecter]

You're right - it was 15.

As for why they aren't signing one, I don't know. Except it looks like most of them are staying put.