Rex reportedly wanted Kiko out

[X-Era]

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/573276092166889472

"Interested to learn trading #Bills (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash) LB Kiko Alonso was one of the first things Rex Ryan wanted to do when hired. Perhaps not a scheme fit"

[Night Train]

He couldn't take the pounding inside and his play dropped dramatically towards the end of 2013. He was going outside last year before the injury. The Bills didn't miss him at all last year as the LB play and run D improved dramatically with Bradham and Brown.

Enter Rex and his D calling for bigger guys on the outside. Lawson fits with this and even Mario Williams if showing a 3-4 look.

Like a said before, I love Kiko and his hustle but he reminds me too much of Shane Conlin, who's body couldn't take the pounding and broke down quickly.

Not making biased excuses and wish the guy all the best ..but decisions like this are made every day. 2 Major ACL recontructive surgeries in 3 years.

That we got McCoy for him is just shocking to me. No other person would have accepted that deal straight up other than Chip Kelly, with homer eyes (Oregon) influencing his decision.

[better days]

He couldn't take the pounding inside and his play dropped dramatically towards the end of 2013. He was going outside last year before the injury. The Bills didn't miss him at all last year as the LB play and run D improved dramatically with Bradham and Brown.

Enter Rex and his D calling for bigger guys on the outside. Lawson fits with this and even Mario Williams if showing a 3-4 look.

Like a said before, I love Kiko and his hustle but he reminds me too much of Shane Conlin, who's body couldn't take the pounding and broke down quickly.

Not making biased excuses and wish the guy all the best ..but decisions like this are made every day. 2 Major ACL recontructive surgeries in 3 years.

That we got McCoy for him is just shocking to me. No other person would have accepted that deal straight up other than Chip Kelly, with homer eyes (Oregon) influencing his decision.

I will enjoy watching McCoy in Buffalo & Kiko on the Eagles will make them more interesting to watch.

[Shady25]

well lets just hope it works like Kiko imagines.

McCoy getting handed the SB trophy from Rex with a smile on his face, with confetti dropping from the top of the stadium.

[jimmifli]

****. Like we haven't seen this before.

"This really good football player doesn't fit our scheme, so we are going to go get a pretty good football player that does fit to replace him and we will improve because my scheme is more important than talent."

[casdhf]

We traded Kiko for Shady. We have plenty of LBs. In this instance, it doesn't really seem like a bad move.

[CleveSteve]

I agree Night Train that you guys are good with Bradham and Brown. Plus, with your guys' limited draft resources (zero picks in top 49, two in top 150) and needs on the OL it's nice to not have to spend a pick on a RB.

I'm not sure that Bradham and Brown are good nickel LBs, though. How did they look in coverage last year? TIA.

[stuckincincy]

He couldn't take the pounding inside and his play dropped dramatically towards the end of 2013. He was going outside last year before the injury. The Bills didn't miss him at all last year as the LB play and run D improved dramatically with Bradham and Brown.

Enter Rex and his D calling for bigger guys on the outside. Lawson fits with this and even Mario Williams if showing a 3-4 look.

Like a said before, I love Kiko and his hustle but he reminds me too much of Shane Conlin, who's body couldn't take the pounding and broke down quickly.

Not making biased excuses and wish the guy all the best ..but decisions like this are made every day. 2 Major ACL recontructive surgeries in 3 years.

That we got McCoy for him is just shocking to me. No other person would have accepted that deal straight up other than Chip Kelly, with homer eyes (Oregon) influencing his decision.

Seems that McCoy and their HC weren't seeing eye to eye. My guess is that PHI was going to move him on regardless. I've read here and there that Alonso wasn't in HC Ryan's plans. So Alonso gets re-united with his college coach and PHI unloads a contract. I do hope Kiko is good to go...I'm not sure how well he will fit into PHI's 3-4 D, but for sure, he has that proverbial "nose for the ball."

[cookie G]

****. Like we haven't seen this before.

"This really good football player doesn't fit our scheme, so we are going to go get a pretty good football player that does fit to replace him and we will improve because my scheme is more important than talent."


Could be. I'm not a huge fan of the Ryan hire, and my biggest pet peeve is a coach coming in changing a scheme because its the only one the coach knows how to use (NFL coordinators on both sides of the ball are the biggest divas in all of football).

On the other hand, I just don't see where Kiko was missed last year. That's not a slight on him as much as it is the play of Bradham and Brown.

IF the Bills D drops off this year, it wasn't because we lost Kiko.

[justasportsfan]

Im not sure about these reports. Why would a player who didn't play last year be the first thing Rex wanted to do when there are more problems on this team.
Second, Rex said he wanted FOOTBALL PLAYERS. Kiko is one of them.

[DraftBoy]

****. Like we haven't seen this before.

"This really good football player doesn't fit our scheme, so we are going to go get a pretty good football player that does fit to replace him and we will improve because my scheme is more important than talent."

Acting like scheme doesn't matter is as bad as acting like talent doesn't matter.

We all saw how Kiko wore down inside in the 34 scheme having to take on blockers. I'm a little surprised they didn't want to see him at WOLB, but I don't think anybody could argue he was a good fit for the system.

[stuckincincy]

Could be. I'm not a huge fan of the Ryan hire, and my biggest pet peeve is a coach coming in changing a scheme because its the only one the coach knows how to use (NFL coordinators on both sides of the ball are the biggest divas in all of football).

On the other hand, I just don't see where Kiko was missed last year. That's not a slight on him as much as it is the play of Bradham and Brown.

IF the Bills D drops off this year, it wasn't because we lost Kiko.

Absolutely spot on about coordinators - especially OCs - who abandon the run if they are down by 10 points or so, even though there is plenty of time on the clock. The performances of CIN OCs Bratkowski, Gruden, and Jackson in playoff games are prime examples.

[stuckincincy]

Acting like scheme doesn't matter is as bad as acting like talent doesn't matter.

We all saw how Kiko wore down inside in the 34 scheme having to take on blockers. I'm a little surprised they didn't want to see him at WOLB, but I don't think anybody could argue he was a good fit for the system.

IIRC, the discussions going around at the time was the possibility of moving Alonso outside, and how the more defined responsibilities of an OLB vs. MLB would reduce his ability to flow to the action.

I think Alonzo was a convenient "throw-in" for PHI's goal of canning McCoy and his contract.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Could be. I'm not a huge fan of the Ryan hire, and my biggest pet peeve is a coach coming in changing a scheme because its the only one the coach knows how to use (NFL coordinators on both sides of the ball are the biggest divas in all of football).

Agreed, and this is exactly what I feared would play out when we hired him. Well, that and the last team he managed was a clownshow.


On the other hand, I just don't see where Kiko was missed last year. That's not a slight on him as much as it is the play of Bradham and Brown.

IF the Bills D drops off this year, it wasn't because we lost Kiko.

It was missed in short pass coverage. We lost a few games that year over our LB pass coverage, and I think Kiko was the best we had (and could have been one of the best in the league) at that.

[jimmifli]

Could be. I'm not a huge fan of the Ryan hire, and my biggest pet peeve is a coach coming in changing a scheme because its the only one the coach knows how to use (NFL coordinators on both sides of the ball are the biggest divas in all of football).

On the other hand, I just don't see where Kiko was missed last year. That's not a slight on him as much as it is the play of Bradham and Brown.

IF the Bills D drops off this year, it wasn't because we lost Kiko.

I like the trade. I don't like the stated reasoning. I agree on Kiko not being missed and on the play of Brown and Bradham, but I suspect Rex will push for David Harris to replace Kiko (because he's a better fit). It's that kind of thinking that is dangerous.

I much prefer to hear things like: "Kiko is a really talented football player and as a coach I've got to find ways to help him make plays". Instead we hear things like: "In my system it's important the OLbs are big and strong".

So this deal might work out, but the thought process that led to the deal will erode talent. Again.

[psubills62]

****. Like we haven't seen this before.

"This really good football player doesn't fit our scheme, so we are going to go get a pretty good football player that does fit to replace him and we will improve because my scheme is more important than talent."
When that happened with someone like Dick Jauron or George Edwards, it pissed me off because their schemes were crap and the guys who "fit" the schemes sucked. With Ryan, we know his scheme works so it doesn't really bother me that much.

One thing I like about the Ryan hire is that we won't be switching defenses every year. That drove me absolutely nuts. The guys who fit the scheme now are the guys who will fit the scheme throughout Ryan's tenure.

[jimmifli]

Acting like scheme doesn't matter is as bad as acting like talent doesn't matter.
I don't think that's true at all. Scheme can be adjusted on the fly. Talent can't.


We all saw how Kiko wore down inside in the 34 scheme having to take on blockers. I'm a little surprised they didn't want to see him at WOLB, but I don't think anybody could argue he was a good fit for the system.

Yeah it wasn't a perfect fit, and I would have liked to have seen him outside, but he made a lot of impact plays. He also hadn't enjoyed the benefits of an NFL offseason PED/strength program yet. I'm sure that will help him.

[jimmifli]

With Ryan, we know his scheme works so it doesn't really bother me that much.


Kyle Orton and our hapless offense dropped 80 points on Rex Ryan's scheme that "works". He's obviously not immune to mistakes.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Kyle Orton and our hapless offense dropped 80 points on Rex Ryan's scheme that "works". He's obviously not immune to mistakes.

Rex Ryan has never had a Top 15 scoring defense without a hall of famer in his secondary. This idea that we can give him table scraps and he'll turn it into fine cuisine is silly.

[Dr. Who]

IIRC, the discussions going around at the time was the possibility of moving Alonso outside, and how the more defined responsibilities of an OLB vs. MLB would reduce his ability to flow to the action.

I think Alonzo was a convenient "throw-in" for PHI's goal of canning McCoy and his contract.

I think this might be true. I'm sorry to see Kiko go and I think, if healthy, he'll be very good. All that said, regardless of motivation, I think Buffalo wins this trade.

[kingJofNYC]

We will definitely miss him in pass coverage.

Again, he had the 4th highest pass coverage grade since 2007 for an inside backer. This is with great cover linebackers like Willis and Bowman in the league, playing inside. Where are we going to find a guy who can cover, Bradham is the only one right now with some range.

We ran a lot of split safety coverage last year, lots of 2 read/quarters, our LBs weren't asked to man up. Cover LBs are valuable, but the Bills dont value it, that's fine. Just don't bring in a bum like David Harris, please, don't bring him in here. Waste of money.

[psubills62]

Kyle Orton and our hapless offense dropped 80 points on Rex Ryan's scheme that "works". He's obviously not immune to mistakes.
Who said anything like that?

[jimmifli]

Who said anything like that?

How else should I interpret "we know his scheme works"?

[stuckincincy]

I think this might be true. I'm sorry to see Kiko go and I think, if healthy, he'll be very good. All that said, regardless of motivation, I think Buffalo wins this trade.

Dunno. They will potentially pay a lot of $ for a runner who earned his dough thanks to his outside game, with BUF having an OL that isn't notable for making the blocks to spring same.

They really paid top price in face of the current conventional wisdom about spending big bux for rbs as well as what the draft pundits say - this is a very deep rookie rb draft. We will see.

[psubills62]

How else should I interpret "we know his scheme works"?
In a way where "works" does not equal "is perfect."

Last year wasn't a good year in terms of points for Ryan's defense, but I think the entirety of his career speaks to a scheme that is successful.

[Dr. Who]

Dunno. They will potentially pay a lot of $ for a runner who earned his dough thanks to his outside game, with BUF having an OL that isn't notable for making the blocks to spring same.

They really paid top price in face of the current conventional wisdom about spending big bux for rbs as well as what the draft pundits say - this is a very deep rookie rb draft. We will see.

It's a risk. I expect more upgrades to the o-line. This trade increases my expectation.
I think more guaranteed money will be paid to McCoy to lessen the cap hit.

[stuckincincy]

It's a risk. I expect more upgrades to the o-line. This trade increases my expectation.
I think more guaranteed money will be paid to McCoy to lessen the cap hit.

I agree about the guaranteed $. The fragile head of His Highness must be petted. :kid:

Other than Ernie Warlick and then a few half-way decent ones along the way, BUF haven't got their hands on an above-average TE (and they have drafted plenty)since the ancient days.

What they da*n well better do is keep blocking TEs on staff. If Chandler's contract is up, ink him and same for Smith.

[HHURRICANE]

He couldn't take the pounding inside and his play dropped dramatically towards the end of 2013. He was going outside last year before the injury. The Bills didn't miss him at all last year as the LB play and run D improved dramatically with Bradham and Brown.

Enter Rex and his D calling for bigger guys on the outside. Lawson fits with this and even Mario Williams if showing a 3-4 look.

Like a said before, I love Kiko and his hustle but he reminds me too much of Shane Conlin, who's body couldn't take the pounding and broke down quickly.

Not making biased excuses and wish the guy all the best ..but decisions like this are made every day. 2 Major ACL recontructive surgeries in 3 years.

That we got McCoy for him is just shocking to me. No other person would have accepted that deal straight up other than Chip Kelly, with homer eyes (Oregon) influencing his decision.

Post of the year for 2015!!!

[Downinfloflo]

****. Like we haven't seen this before.

"This really good football player doesn't fit our scheme, so we are going to go get a pretty good football player that does fit to replace him and we will improve because my scheme is more important than talent."

Bill Belichick quote??

[better days]

Kyle Orton and our hapless offense dropped 80 points on Rex Ryan's scheme that "works". He's obviously not immune to mistakes.

That had more to do with Jets PLAYERS that were not immune to mistakes than Rex IMO.

[Typ0]

This whole thread is off. I don't like the way it's being characterized that Ryan sought to trade Alonzo. Alonzo is a very talented player but the type of player he is and considering our current roster having him here next year would have been a luxury. Ryan was seeking turning a luxury into a necessity. There is no need to negate Alonzo in Ryan's mind to achieve what happened and I really doubt Ryan has that kind of mind-set.

Same mis-direction in the quote below. Not a convenient "throw-in" but the the thing that made sure they dumped his contract on us and not another team. Sounds like some value to me.


IIRC, the discussions going around at the time was the possibility of moving Alonso outside, and how the more defined responsibilities of an OLB vs. MLB would reduce his ability to flow to the action.

I think Alonzo was a convenient "throw-in" for PHI's goal of canning McCoy and his contract.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That had more to do with Jets PLAYERS that were not immune to mistakes than Rex IMO.

That's the point. You can scheme around some weak players on offense, but on defense you need talent.

[DynaPaul]

I don't care what rationale everyone uses, Kiko is still the man.

[BleedinGreenNC]

That had more to do with Jets PLAYERS that were not immune to mistakes than Rex IMO.

So Rex's scheme of rush 4 on 1st and 2nd down, and then rush everyone on 3rd down wasnt the issue? Please, all Rex does is try to fit a square peg in a round hole every year. He just went out and got a non ground and pound RB for what he is trying to turn into a ground and pound offense. Rex is gonna Rex.

[EDS]

In a way where "works" does not equal "is perfect."

Last year wasn't a good year in terms of points for Ryan's defense, but I think the entirety of his career speaks to a scheme that is successful.

A lot of defensive systems will be successful so long as they have a Revis Island.