The Charles Clay Saga

[DesertFox24]

Way phins structured suh they will match clay. Granted they will have to completely gut team to resign tannyhill. Cutting Wallace next year will give them 10. But oh well who is next on the list.

[YardRat]

Where is that coming from?

[SpikedLemonade]

I posted this in the Clay Looking for a Buffalo Home thread, but Suh's first year cap hit is only $6M.

The Fish are closer to the cap then we are and they already have $7M counted for Clay this year.

We could offer him a base salary of $13M this year rather than a bonus, but the Fish could restructure other deals to find the money to match.

The thought of an easy offer to sign him is out the window.

- - - Updated - - -


Where is that coming from?

https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/575796258121580544/photo/1

[ct bills fan]

Nope - I Believe you're wrong. Miami has $10m Cap space and we have about $20m, after cutting chandler. We will front load the contract with a 1st year cap hit of around 13-15m - why else would we have cut Chandler for only a 2.2m cap savings? Miami can not afford 13-15m to their cap. I may b wrong, but this is the simple economic deduction. A high year 1 cap hit and maybe a lesser year 2 one will also help us sign the big 3 or 4 next year

[DesertFox24]

Hey it is what it is if bills are smart structure deal really high thi year and next make them hurt next year and cut good players. Phins will have to decide if clay is worth potentially fielding bad team around tannyhill clay and suh. Already lost Starks

[SpikedLemonade]

Nope - I Believe you're wrong. Miami has $10m Cap space and we have about $20m, after cutting chandler. We will front load the contract with a 1st year cap hit of around 13-15m - why else would we have cut Chandler for only a 2.2m cap savings? Miami can not afford 13-15m to their cap. I may b wrong, but this is the simple economic deduction. A high year 1 cap hit and maybe a lesser year 2 one will also help us sign the big 3 or 4 next year

That $10M for Miami includes the $7M Transition Tag for Clay so Miami has plenty of money to match the Bills offer before they have to go restructure Wallace's contract or other contracts.

The issue is how high do either team really want to go for a TE?

TE Thomas just signed for less than $10M per year.

[DesertFox24]

Only way they will not match is if we guarantee while contract. Owners would hang pegula so doubt it happens

[YardRat]

Holy ****ing **** a $23.485mil base salary in 2016? That's insane.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ndamukong-suh/

[SpikedLemonade]

Only way they will not match is if we guarantee while contract. Owners would hang pegula so doubt it happens

Perhaps not the whole contract, but we would have to guarantee the first 2 years.

[EDS]

Holy ****ing **** a $23.485mil base salary in 2016? That's insane.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ndamukong-suh/

Interesting. For sure they will structure Tannehill the same way next year.

[BillsImpossible]

Nope - I Believe you're wrong. Miami has $10m Cap space and we have about $20m, after cutting chandler. We will front load the contract with a 1st year cap hit of around 13-15m - why else would we have cut Chandler for only a 2.2m cap savings? Miami can not afford 13-15m to their cap. I may b wrong, but this is the simple economic deduction. A high year 1 cap hit and maybe a lesser year 2 one will also help us sign the big 3 or 4 next year

That or a huge signing bonus. Players want the most upfront money possible.

Signing bonuses are beneficial because they get spread out over 5 years towards the cap, and players get the most money now, not later.

Could simply come down to which team offers the most cash up front.

[Night Train]

If so, then OL (at least 2) and TE on draft weekend.

Clay isn't do or die. I'm fine either way.

[YardRat]

That or a huge signing bonus. Players want the most upfront money possible.

Signing bonuses are beneficial because they get spread out over 5 years towards the cap, and players get the most money now, not later.

Could simply come down to which team offers the most cash up front.

Suh's 2016 salary is almost as much as his entire signing bonus.

[SpikedLemonade]

Ndamukong Suh contract may let Miami Dolphins match Charles Clay offers


The long-awaited details of the Ndamukong Suh (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/245851/ndamukong-suh) mega-contract with the Miami Dolphins (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/miami-dolphins) finally came out Wednesday evening, and they provide some clarity on the Buffalo Bills (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/teams/buffalo-bills)' pursuit of free agent Dolphins tight end Charles Clay (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/130887/charles-clay).


According to Aaron Wilson of The Baltimore Sun (https://twitter.com/RavensInsider/status/575789551714758657), Suh will receive a $25.5 million signing bonus, as well as the league minimum salary of $985,000 in 2015. Prorating the $25.5 million over the maximum of five years creates a 2015 cap hit for Suh of only $6.085 million (one-fifth of the bonus, $5.1 million, plus base salary). Miami clearly structured the deal to maximize their 2015 cap space as much as possible, with Suh's 2016 salary jumping up to an enormous $23.485 million in 2016.


What this means for Bills fans awaiting the long-reported offer sheet for Clay is that Miami is going to have a much greater capacity to possibly match an offer for Clay than was most likely being anticipated at One Bills Drive. ...

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-opinion/2015/3/11/8196187/ndamukong-suh-contract-dolphins-charles-clay-offer-sheet-buffalo-bills

[SpikedLemonade]

If so, then OL (at least 2) and TE on draft weekend.

Clay isn't do or die. I'm fine either way.

I agree Clay is not do or die, but it shows a waste of effort that perhaps should have been focused on aggressively enticing a FA OL before they signed elsewhere.

[YardRat]

Pass, and move on.

I've got a bad feeling that they are going to go all out and break bank just to save face, though...otherwise there would have been no need to cut Chandler.

[Night Train]

Suh's 2016 salary is almost as much as his entire signing bonus.

Is cap hit is supposedly just above 6 Mil, according to Spotrac.

[ct bills fan]

It would be idiotic if buffalo front loaded the contract (say 15m yr 1 cap hit) and Miami matched somehow. Why idiotic? Miami could have franchised him for 8m instead of transitioning him for 7m. This leads me to believe they won't match a front loaded contract

[YardRat]

Is cap hit is supposedly just above 6 Mil, according to Spotrac.

I know, I offered the link in post #8.

[EDS]

Is Clay really that good? There are reports of knee injuries with him that makes me a little uneasy.

[Night Train]

It would be idiotic if buffalo front loaded the contract (say 15m yr 1 cap hit) and Miami matched somehow. Why idiotic? Miami could have franchised him for 8m instead of transitioning him for 7m. This leads me to believe they won't match a front loaded contract

Good post

They will try but the draft has TE's also. I'm not panicking either way.

[BillsImpossible]

Suh's 2016 salary is almost as much as his entire signing bonus.

A $25.5 million signing bonus with a base salary of less than a million in 2015.

Wow.

I think this means that Clay will sign with the team that gives him the biggest signing bonus.

[The last buffalo fan]

Pass, and move on.

I've got a bad feeling that they are going to go all out and break bank just to save face, though...otherwise there would have been no need to cut Chandler.

Now I would make a kind of OpI's rant!

[ct bills fan]

Say want to pay him 8m/yr for 5 years, or $40m. We're in better shape than Miami to handle a cap hit, so structure the salaries as such: 15m year 1, 10m year 2, 5m year 3 through 5. Uses a lot of cap this year and is very cap friendly in years 3-5

[SpikedLemonade]

A $25.5 million signing bonus with a base salary of less than a million in 2015.

Wow.

I think this means that Clay will sign with the team that gives him the biggest signing bonus.

Signing bonus would allow Miami to spread over 5 years.

It is guaranteed bases in 2015 and 2016 that would have to be used.

AND yes he will sign with whichever team guarantees him the most money.

[SpikedLemonade]

Say want to pay him 8m/yr for 5 years, or $40m. We're in better shape than Miami to handle a cap hit, so structure the salaries as such: 15m year 1, 10m year 2, 5m year 3 through 5. Uses a lot of cap this year and is very cap friendly in years 3-5

That is what I suggested in one of this threads.

The issue is whether Clay is worth $8M per year.

If he isn't and you discover that after 2 years, using your example you have just paid a TE $12.5M per year for 2 years before you cut him.

[YardRat]

They could get tricky and guarantee a huge salary in 16 like fins did with Suh, but that puts Dareus at huge risk.

Clay isn't worth it, move on.

[Meathead]

Holy ****ing **** a $23.485mil base salary in 2016? That's insane.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ndamukong-suh/

i cant even imagine how they plan to manage that. he goes from six to twenty three in one season?! dang, thats like a five player difference

[streetkings01]

Tannenhill has a $15 mill 5th year option coming up.........he's gonna eat up most of the cap space they have left.

[SpikedLemonade]

Tannenhill has a $15 mill 5th year option coming up.........he's gonna eat up most of the cap space they have left.

They will have him locked up into a long-term deal by then.

As we will with Dareus.

[better days]

LMAO at Bills fans that complained about Mario'$ contract.

[Jry44]

I agree Clay is not do or die, but it shows a waste of effort that perhaps should have been focused on aggressively enticing a FA OL before they signed elsewhere.

I agree that we need to address the OL, hell I think that all of us fans agree. However, who is available that jumps out at you that we missed out on? All of the big name/good fit types decided to resign with their teams. Iupati wasn't leaving the west coast. The guard from Cinci that we were linked to also resigned. Therefore, the market for Olinemen, especially tackles dried up before free agency even kicked off. Bulaga was the big target, but he resigned with GB before 4pm and never hit the open market.

I agree. We need guard and RT help and it needs to be addressed, however there aren't too many options out there right now that are going to be a huge upgrade over what we have now. It sucks, but it is what it is. The best we can hope for at this point is for some solid vets like Jhari Evans to get released.

Conversely, I absolutely do not see the logic in ignoring other free agent needs such as pursuing a TE or another receiver until the OL is addressed. You can't risk missing out on other players that can improve your team due to other holes not being filled.

And to add to the Dolphins being able to easily match the Bills offer, Jordan Cameron is headed to Miami for a visit, so clearly Miami is anticipating losing Clay. Personally, I don't think Clay is a must get, and I really don't see why the Bills are swooning over the guy, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. They know more about evaluating players than I ever will.

[YardRat]

I agree that we need to address the OL, hell I think that all of us fans agree. However, who is available that jumps out at you that we missed out on? All of the big name/good fit types decided to resign with their teams. Iupati wasn't leaving the west coast. The guard from Cinci that we were linked to also resigned. Therefore, the market for Olinemen, especially tackles dried up before free agency even kicked off. Bulaga was the big target, but he resigned with GB before 4pm and never hit the open market.

I agree. We need guard and RT help and it needs to be addressed, however there aren't too many options out there right now that are going to be a huge upgrade over what we have now. It sucks, but it is what it is. The best we can hope for at this point is for some solid vets like Jhari Evans to get released.

Conversely, I absolutely do not see the logic in ignoring other free agent needs such as pursuing a TE or another receiver until the OL is addressed. You can't risk missing out on other players that can improve your team due to other holes not being filled.

And to add to the Dolphins being able to easily match the Bills offer, Jordan Cameron is headed to Miami for a visit, so clearly Miami is anticipating losing Clay. Personally, I don't think Clay is a must get, and I really don't see why the Bills are swooning over the guy, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. They know more about evaluating players than I ever will.

If they choose to offer Clay, that's exactly what they are doing though. Ignoring other free agents and risking missing out on filling other holes until TE is addressed. Hell, they are even going so far as creating more holes by pulling moves like cutting Chandler.

[better days]

If they choose to offer Clay, that's exactly what they are doing though. Ignoring other free agents and risking missing out on filling other holes until TE is addressed. Hell, they are even going so far as creating more holes by pulling moves like cutting Chandler.

I think the Bills are pretty damn sure they will land Clay and/or draft a TE they want more than Chandler.

I was always a Chandler fan, but how can a guy that big not block worth a damn?

[The Jokeman]

I think the Bills are pretty damn sure they will land Clay and/or draft a TE they want more than Chandler.

I was always a Chandler fan, but how can a guy that big not block worth a damn?
Because he's not as athletically gifted as other guys. Case in point Chandler ran a 4.78 forty, Clay ran it in 4.73 seconds. Chander's 20 yard shuttle was 4.32 seconds, Clay's was 4.16 seconds. Chandler's vertical was 30 inches, Clay's was 33.5 inches.


For what it's worth Cameron's forty was 4.52 seconds, 20 was 4.03 and vertical was 37.5. Another guy I've mentioned before Housler had a 4.55 forty, 4.21 20 and vertical of 37 inches. and for this year's draft Maxx Williams ran a 4.79 forty, 4.37 20 and a vertical of 34.5. Granted you can't soley go by combine numbers but it's interesting that Chandler's the worst of the lot in almost every category.

[Jry44]

If they choose to offer Clay, that's exactly what they are doing though. Ignoring other free agents and risking missing out on filling other holes until TE is addressed. Hell, they are even going so far as creating more holes by pulling moves like cutting Chandler.

The are chasing Clay, yet you forget the fact that they have signed a big blocking fullback, are hosting Percy Harvin on a visit, and have already traded for a top 5 RB and traded for a QB. But yes..... they are ignoring everything else. I guess the draft is meaningless too?

[feldspar]

I opened this thread expecting to hear that Clay was re-signed by Miami or the deal was definitely not going to happen. The title of the thread suggested this.

Stop that.

Time will tell, mini GMs.

[clumping platelets]

He already counts a shade over $7 million on Miami's cap. Deal needs to be significantly higher in 2015. Cap number over $10 million IMO.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The bigger issue with signing him IMO is that because of the tag, Miami has a full week to decide whether to match or not. That means whatever we offer him is effectively off the books for that time, and if Miami matches we won't be left with anyone left to sign.

Well, that and I don't actually think he's worth this intense, expensive pursuit.

[Night Train]

Ignoring other free agents

Who are they " ignoring " ?

I see nothing in the FA OL pool. (Draft) No QB's of any value showing. Probably will add another vet later who may not yet be on the market. Multiple other Vets at all positions will be waived in the next few months.

Could debate DL but looking at the depth chart doesn't register a shortage. LB ? Maybe 1 more. Safety ? Might need that but Duke Williams or Rambo replacing the very average Searcy is hardly a huge dropoff. Tampa is reportedly cutting a starting safety. More will be available.

Bills could still chop a couple salarys (Urbik for one) and post draft will mean some Vets will get cut. That market always has new people entering it for the next 4 months.

Certainly don't get the Clay thing but if the Bills want him that bad, so be it.

I like our RB's, WR's, DL, CB's.

I guess I don't see the screaming needs others see. Guys drafted the last couple years need to step up and possibly start. Every team does this at some positions but many here think because they don't have multiple NFL starts or didn't become a starter immediately out of college, they aren't worthy of playing time in year 2 or 3 and must be busts. Development, be damned.

You can't possibly think shopping for Vets in March is the only way to go. More often than not, it's a quick fix losing formula.


To read this board sometimes, you'd think the Bills are a hopeless 3 win team with holes all over the roster.

[Jry44]

The bigger issue with signing him IMO is that because of the tag, Miami has a full week to decide whether to match or not. That means whatever we offer him is effectively off the books for that time, and if Miami matches we won't be left with anyone left to sign.

Well, that and I don't actually think he's worth this intense, expensive pursuit.

It's 5 days under the new CBA, not 7. But your point still sticks.

[Gilly]

The are chasing Clay, yet you forget the fact that they have signed a big blocking fullback, are hosting Percy Harvin on a visit, and have already traded for a top 5 RB and traded for a QB. But yes..... they are ignoring everything else. I guess the draft is meaningless too?

These guys need to whine about something...

Dumb Bills are making it harder and harder for them...

Clay isn't do or die, but he is a huge upgrade and would fit well into our offense..

[HHURRICANE]

Am I the only one that thinks it's incredibly stupid to release Chandler without a new TE under contract?

Didn't he have the most receptions on the team last year?

[Mahdi]

Am I the only one that thinks it's incredibly stupid to release Chandler without a new TE under contract?

Didn't he have the most receptions on the team last year?

They must be extremely confident in acquiring Clay. That, or they just don't feel Chandler fits they offense whether they have Clay or not.

Chandler is not a move guy and he is not a particularly good blocker. Roman covets those two traits.

[Woodman]

Clay will play for Buffalo or Cleveland in 2015 everything else being discussed his horse droppings.

[jills]

The are chasing Clay, yet you forget the fact that they have signed a big blocking fullback, are hosting Percy Harvin on a visit, and have already traded for a top 5 RB and traded for a QB. But yes..... they are ignoring everything else. I guess the draft is meaningless too?

Wow! signed a FB, hosting a WR with health/locker room issues, traded for a RB who's best used in the spread-option offense and traded for another ****ty QB.

Way to go Doug! Can you say Super Bowl?

[Mahdi]

Wow! signed a FB, hosting a WR with health/locker room issues, traded for a RB who's best used in the spread-option offense and traded for another ****ty QB.

Way to go Doug! Can you say Super Bowl?

I agree so far it doesn't look too great.

On McCoy though, he ran for 1309 yards with 17 TDs under Andy Reid. So its not just Chip he succeeded under.

[better days]

Wow! signed a FB, hosting a WR with health/locker room issues, traded for a RB who's best used in the spread-option offense and traded for another ****ty QB.

Way to go Doug! Can you say Super Bowl?

You forgot to mention signing a BULLY for the OL.

SUPER BOWL!

[Ed]

The Dolphins are reportedly hosting free agent TE Jordan Cameron today. I would think that's a good sign that they might not be planning to match an offer sheet for Clay. The article I linked below also claims that the Dolphins have less cap space than the Bills right now.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2015/03/today-is-tight-ends-day-for-the-miami-dolphins-as-ireported-here-overnight-tuesday-the-dolphins-have-cleveland-tight-end-j.html

[jamze132]

The bigger issue with signing him IMO is that because of the tag, Miami has a full week to decide whether to match or not. That means whatever we offer him is effectively off the books for that time, and if Miami matches we won't be left with anyone left to sign.

Well, that and I don't actually think he's worth this intense, expensive pursuit.

Miami would be smart to use all 7 days if they plan on matching so the TE market could deteriorate for us. I'm not sure why we aren't interested in Cameron. Maybe we are, but I haven't heard anything.

[Mahdi]

Miami would be smart to use all 7 days if they plan on matching so the TE market could deteriorate for us. I'm not sure why we aren't interested in Cameron. Maybe we are, but I haven't heard anything.

Any TE in Roman's system has to be a good blocker. Cameron has 3 concussions and is not a great blocker. Great downfield threat though and redzone too.

[stuckincincy]

Any TE in Roman's system has to be a good blocker. Cameron has 3 concussions and is not a great blocker. Great downfield threat though and redzone too.

I'm not understanding what seems to be this stress on the run game in the face of recent rule changes that make the pass play the king.

[wolfpack]

Free agent Jordan Cameron is visiting the Dolphins, and the sides have a "lot of mutual interest."
Per NFL Network, the Browns and a mystery team are also in the mix. We can't really think of a good reason for the increasingly talent-less Browns to let Cameron walk, even considering his concussion history. Signing with the Dolphins would be a strong sign that Charles Clay is moving on to Buffalo. Mar 12 - 3:17 PM
Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/576098738701090816)

[psubills62]

Sounds like Jordan Cameron is visiting the Dolphins. Might be a sign they're willing to let Clay go.

Ryan sure seems to love his HB-types. Dustin Keller did have good success under his watch, guessing this is Keller 2.0.

[EDS]

Sounds like Jordan Cameron is visiting the Dolphins. Might be a sign they're willing to let Clay go.

Ryan sure seems to love his HB-types. Dustin Keller did have good success under his watch, guessing this is Keller 2.0.

If that is the case, let's just hope Clay does not have the same results Keller had after signing a big free agent deal.

[wolfpack]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/525027798851678208/_gep2s4I_bigger.jpegIan RapoportVerified account‏@RapSheet (https://twitter.com/RapSheet)

RB intrigue in PHI, but TE intrigue in MIA. #Dolphins (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Dolphins?src=hash) have Jordan Cameron in, but are trying to work out a long-term deal with Charles Clay

[Mike13]

Holy ****ing **** a $23.485mil base salary in 2016? That's insane.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/ndamukong-suh/

Mitigated by the fact that the Dolphins are projected to have $40 to $50 million in cap space next year.

[MidnightVoice]

Doug Whaley: Bills still debating Charles Clay offer

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/

The Buffalo Bills are still debating whether to make free-agent tight end Charles Clay an offer, general manager Doug Whaley said in an appearance on Sirius XM NFL Radio on Thursday afternoon.

Clay visited the Bills earlier this week. The Miami Dolphins assigned Clay the franchise tag, so if the Bills make Clay an offer sheet, the Dolphins will have five days to match.

The Cleveland Browns are also expected to pursue Clay.

[Frenchman]

Clay seems to do things good...on paper that is! But to really bring it out on the field, that is the million dollar question.

[Mahdi]

Doug Whaley: Bills still debating Charles Clay offer

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/

The Buffalo Bills are still debating whether to make free-agent tight end Charles Clay an offer, general manager Doug Whaley said in an appearance on Sirius XM NFL Radio on Thursday afternoon.

Clay visited the Bills earlier this week. The Miami Dolphins assigned Clay the franchise tag, so if the Bills make Clay an offer sheet, the Dolphins will have five days to match.

The Cleveland Browns are also expected to pursue Clay.


Ya right... They are just waiting for Cleveland to give him an offer sheet so they can beat it.

[PhinsFan66]

Way phins structured suh they will match clay. Granted they will have to completely gut team to resign tannyhill. Cutting Wallace next year will give them 10. But oh well who is next on the list.
The Phins have plenty of guys they can roll of the books to sign Tannehill to a big deal after this season. You guys might want to draft Maxx Williams, TE, U. of Minnesota, instead of pilfering other team's players.

- - - Updated - - -


Way phins structured suh they will match clay. Granted they will have to completely gut team to resign tannyhill. Cutting Wallace next year will give them 10. But oh well who is next on the list.
The Phins have plenty of guys they can roll of the books to sign Tannehill to a big deal after this season. You guys might want to draft Maxx Williams, TE, U. of Minnesota, instead of pilfering other team's players.

[The Jokeman]

Jordan Cameron done w/ Cleveland, 2 yrs $15M, source says #Browns

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/576139396610568194

If not I would call Rob Housler's agent tomorrow and get him ASAP.

[Night Train]

Reports are Clay may be getting an extension in Miami, so that whole offer sheet idea may be shot.

The draft is still an option.

[The Jokeman]

Reports are Clay may be getting an extension in Miami, so that whole offer sheet idea may be shot.

The draft is still an option.

I still add a veteran (or two) to the mix. Fasano is a decent blocking TE but don't see him being a threat to move the chains and that's why I bring up Housler who had some decent numbers in Arizona in 2012 and 2013.

[SpikedLemonade]

Reports are Clay may be getting an extension in Miami, so that whole offer sheet idea may be shot.

The draft is still an option.

Personally, I don't believe that a TE means much when you have poor quarterbacking, but the only thing less effective is a rookie TE with that same poor quarterbacking.

Rookie TEs are notoriously slow in developing.

If we can't sign a decent Guard or RT, I would rather use our 2nd and 3rd round picks on OL.

[YardRat]

Fasano, Housler...did anything happen today with Gresham or Miller?

[The Jokeman]

Personally, I don't believe that a TE means much when you have poor quarterbacking, but the only thing less effective is a rookie TE with that same poor quarterbacking.

Rookie TEs are notoriously slow in developing.

If we can't sign a decent Guard or RT, I would rather use our 2nd and 3rd round picks on OL.
I agree with the sentiment that a rookie TE won't help right away but I still draft one in Round 2 or 3 to develop if don't land Clay. As rather have a good development guy in the system. I really like Walford and think he should be there in Round 3.

[X-Era]

If not I would call Rob Housler's agent tomorrow and get him ASAP.I don't care if we lose out on Clay...

We often attach ourselves to "winning" a bidding or signing war to winning the Super Bowl. It isn't the same.

If we don't land Clay we have other options like trades and the draft. And NO I don't consider it losing to the Fins.

The goal of this team is to get better overall for roster talent. Clay is not the only TE that can do that for us.

Moreover, improving the overall roster talent does not revolve around the TE position or Charles Clay. If we end up using that same money on a real upgrade at LB or G are we not still a better team?

Its a 53 man team. Don't allow one war for one player to somehow become the war over winning a Superbowl.

[The Jokeman]

I don't care if we lose out on Clay...

We often attach ourselves to "winning" a bidding or signing war to winning the Super Bowl. It isn't the same.

If we don't land Clay we have other options like trades and the draft. And NO I don't consider it losing to the Fins.

The goal of this team is to get better overall for roster talent. Clay is not the only TE that can do that for us.

Moreover, improving the overall roster talent does not revolve around the TE position or Charles Clay. If we end up using that same money on a real upgrade at LB or G are we not still a better team?

Its a 53 man team. Don't allow one war for one player to somehow become the war over winning a Superbowl.

What upgrades at LB are available that are worth Clay movey? What about LGs? I don't see anyone that good out there so I say show Clay the money and see what happens. I agree we aren't one player away but I still want to improve this roster and if we lose Clay I did mention an alternative that won't cost as much as I think Rob Housler is a pretty good TE. Yes he only has 1 TD in his NFL career but he has some wheels and put up half way decent numbers with limited targets in Arizona.

[X-Era]

I think Clay may be pulling a Clay-bo... Playing the Bills to drive up the contract from Miami.

And now the Bills are "mulling over" making an offer... Good for Whaley for not throwing the kitchen sink at the guy to get him to sign with us instead of Miami.

[The Jokeman]

I think Clay may be pulling a Clay-bo... Playing the Bills to drive up the contract from Miami.

And now the Bills are "mulling over" making an offer... Good for Whaley for not throwing the kitchen sink at the guy to get him to sign with us instead of Miami.

It might be the numbers aren't there to get him at a contract we want or maybe Clay indicated something in with his team meeting he doesn't want to be here. Whaley did elude in his presser he wants it to be a mutual thing.

[The Jokeman]

Oh and I guess Gresham is still an option too, I thought he signed with Oakland.

[X-Era]

Oh and I guess Gresham is still an option too, I thought he signed with Oakland.I like Gresham a lot. Always have. But I'd love to pull a trade for Vernon Davis.

[Woodman]

The Phins have plenty of guys they can roll of the books to sign Tannehill to a big deal after this season. You guys might want to draft Maxx Williams, TE, U. of Minnesota, instead of pilfering other team's players.

- - - Updated - - -


The Phins have plenty of guys they can roll of the books to sign Tannehill to a big deal after this season. You guys might want to draft Maxx Williams, TE, U. of Minnesota, instead of pilfering other team's players.


hey phinsfan66 two times ... we never made the guy an offer and you guys have not stepped up either .... so the ? remains will you ever step up.

congrats on Suh.

[wmoz11]

Jordan Cameron to the phins and not Browns as reported. Looks like it's us or the Browns. Hope we get him

[Mr. Pink]

Although, maybe they didn't! :rofl:

And I sure hope they didn't instead of paying 15m over 2 years.

[Mr. Miyagi]

They're now retracting the report of Cameron resigning with the Browns. Multiple reports say Dolphins finalizing with Cameron, which means they're giving up on matching Clay.

[Woodman]

The deal was reportedly done, but the Dolphins jumped back into the mix at the last minute and appear to be stealing Cameron away from Cleveland. It's a sign the Dolphins are prepared to lose transition player Charles Clay.

[Night Train]

The TE Clay thing is getting weird.

The Cleveland TE Jordan Cameron visited Miami and then a report said he signed with Cleveland, Murph was just on the radio as I was picking up my daughter from work and said the Cleveland signing was false and he was negotiating with Miami.

So Murph said if Miami does sign him, the transition tag is coming off and an immediate bidding war for Clay starts between Buffalo, Cleveland and maybe more.

[wolfpack]

@CharlesRobinson

Contrary to reports, tight end Jordan Cameron will be signing with #Dolphins (https://mobile.twitter.com/search/?q=%23Dolphins&s=hash) - not #Browns (https://mobile.twitter.com/search/?q=%23Browns&s=hash). Contract details are being finalized right now.

[YardRat]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2355461-jordan-cameron-re-signs-with-browns-latest-contract-details-comments-reaction

Interesting...maybe Fins are forcing Clay to make a decision.

[Night Train]

@CharlesRobinson

Contrary to reports, tight end Jordan Cameron will be signing with #Dolphins (https://mobile.twitter.com/search/?q=%23Dolphins&s=hash) - not #Browns (https://mobile.twitter.com/search/?q=%23Browns&s=hash). Contract details are being finalized right now.

Thanks

Interesting

[YardRat]

In theory, TE Charles Clay could blow the Cameron-to-Miami deal up by signing the transition tender.

[YardRat]

Let Cleveland and Miami fight over TE's. Time to move on. We can probably get four decent contributors for the money we would have to offer Clay to procure his services.

[wolfpack]

Best reply to Robinson:

jeffc

"@CharlesRobinson (https://mobile.twitter.com/CharlesRobinson) This would be so Browns if it's true..."

[BillsImpossible]

Just heard it on the John Murphy Show.

Charles Clay left Buffalo without an offer.

[MikeInRoch]

There's a lot of dancing going on right now.

[YardRat]

:dance:

[Night Train]

I don't think Clay is worth big $$ but it's not coming out of my pocket. If they like him that much, then I'm fine with it. If not, the draft will yield one.

[BillsImpossible]

One night stands suck.

[Night Train]

Just heard it on the John Murphy Show.

Charles Clay left Buffalo without an offer sheet.

Corrected.

[YardRat]

I don't think Clay is worth big $$ but it's not coming out of my pocket. If they like him that much, then I'm fine with it. If not, the draft will yield one.

I'm starting to get the impression you're a big fan of the draft. Or is it just me?

[BillsImpossible]

There's a lot of dancing going on right now.

Dancing? Feels like a 48 hour sandpaper hand job.

[BillsImpossible]

Corrected.

Rex gave him a box of Kleenex and moved on.

[psubills62]

The rumors now are as bad as before the draft. First the Bills would be happy if the only guy they signed was Clay, now suddenly they didn't even bother to offer him a contract. Fun ride.

[Night Train]

Rex gave him a box of Kleenex and moved on.

We'll see. I'm fine either way but many here are convinced they know it all.

[BertSquirtgum]

Just heard it on the John Murphy Show.

Charles Clay left Buffalo without an offer.

That's dumb.

[Night Train]

I'm starting to get the impression you're a big fan of the draft. Or is it just me?

Many here are convinced all problems are solved in FA. Many FA signings over the years have been proven to be beyond foolish.

I'm a big fan of the OL draft class this year, unlike other years when it looked very thin.

[Mike13]

ahhhhh damage control.

[Mike13]

Watch Miami get both

[Mr. Miyagi]

That's dumb.
And inaccurate.

LaCanfora and Rappaport both reported Clay sitting on an offer from us and probably waiting for one from the Browns.

[BillsImpossible]

That's dumb.

I'll try to quote Murph the best I can...

"Maybe the Bills and Clay didn't agree on philosophy, whatever it was, Charles Clay left Buffalo without an offer."

[YardRat]

And inaccurate.

LaCanfora and Rappaport both reported Clay sitting on an offer from us and probably waiting for one from the Browns.

Apparently Whaley has been quoted as saying they haven't, and may not.

[BillsImpossible]

And inaccurate.

LaCanfora and Rappaport both reported Clay sitting on an offer from us and probably waiting for one from the Browns.

The Browns just signed Cameron, so LaCanfora and Ian Rappaport just proved how they're in the business of getting attention and web hits.

http://www.4029tv.com/sports/browns-resign-te-cameron/31765554

The Cleveland Browns re-signed tight end Jordan Cameron on Thursday.
The contract is worth $15 million over two years, according to NFL Network and Yahoo Sports.

[Mike13]

Maybe the Dolphins are trying to get both at an affordable price? Nahhhh. A man can dream though...a man can dream

[Mike13]

The Browns just signed Cameron, so LaCanfora and Ian Rappaport just proved how they're in the business of getting attention and web hits.

http://www.4029tv.com/sports/browns-resign-te-cameron/31765554

The Cleveland Browns re-signed tight end Jordan Cameron on Thursday.
The contract is worth $15 million over two years, according to NFL Network and Yahoo Sports.

Its been reported that Jordan is working on a deal with Miami

[Buffalogic]

This helps us get a more reasonable cap number for Clay with this lessening the chance of a miami match.

[BillsImpossible]

Its been reported that Jordan is working on a deal with Miami

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000478637/article/browns-dolphins-battling-over-jordan-cameron

If the Browns and Dolphins are battling over Jordan Cameron, where does that leave Charles Clay?

[psubills62]

According to rotoworld, Miami officially announced they signed Jordan Cameron.

[BillsImpossible]

According to rotoworld, Miami officially announced they signed Jordan Cameron.

As the NFL Free Agency World Turns

The NFL should make their own reality TV show out of this and put it on NFL Network.

[coastal]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000478637/article/browns-dolphins-battling-over-jordan-cameron

If the Browns and Dolphins are battling over Jordan Cameron, where does that leave Charles Clay?
Our *****?

[psubills62]

PFT reporting on Twitter that Miami doesn't plan to rescind the transition tag on Clay.

https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/576190451587411968

[Mike13]

PFT reporting on Twitter that Miami doesn't plan to rescind the transition tag on Clay.

https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/576190451587411968


Mike Tannenbaum you crazy mother****er.

[Buffalogic]

Just means we give him a better offer than 7m tomorrow and we land him.

[BertSquirtgum]

The Browns just signed Cameron, so LaCanfora and Ian Rappaport just proved how they're in the business of getting attention and web hits.

http://www.4029tv.com/sports/browns-resign-te-cameron/31765554

The Cleveland Browns re-signed tight end Jordan Cameron on Thursday.
The contract is worth $15 million over two years, according to NFL Network and Yahoo Sports.

No.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/12/dolphins-land-jordan-cameron/

[BillsImpossible]

Our *****?

If Cameron is going to Miami, Clay has a decision to make between Buffalo and Cleveland.

Cleveland wanted Cameron, not Clay. How could Clay go to Cleveland after they made a move on Cameron?

Looks like the Bills will be able to sign Clay for a more reasonable than $8 million a year contract.

As The NFL Free Agency World Turns, brought to you by, The Billzone.

[mightysimi]

If Cameron is going to Miami, Clay has a decision to make between Buffalo and Cleveland.

Cleveland wanted Cameron, not Clay. How could Clay go to Cleveland after they made a move on Cameron?

Looks like the Bills will be able to sign Clay for a more reasonable than $8 million a year contract.

As The NFL Free Agency World Turns, brought to you by, The Billzone.

just because the trans tag was 7 doesn't mean the salary has to be higher than that. It can be lower. It will most likely be higher though.

[BertSquirtgum]

If Cameron is going to Miami, Clay has a decision to make between Buffalo and Cleveland.

Cleveland wanted Cameron, not Clay. How could Clay go to Cleveland after they made a move on Cameron?

Looks like the Bills will be able to sign Clay for a more reasonable than $8 million a year contract.

As The NFL Free Agency World Turns, brought to you by, The Billzone.

Is he really worth 8 a year? I don't think so.

[BillsImpossible]

just because the trans tag was 7 doesn't mean the salary has to be higher than that. It can be lower. It will most likely be higher though.

Sitting on a fence in Winnipeg.

"Winnipeg?"

[BertSquirtgum]

**** Clay and his ****ing around. Trade for Vernon Davis.

[PhinsFan66]

Mike Tannenbaum you crazy mother****er.

Lets keep Clay to go along with Cameron. We will have a nice tandem TE set like the Pats had with Gronk and Hernandez. Tannenbaum is kicking ass.

[mightysimi]

Sitting on a fence in Winnipeg.

"Winnipeg?"

Lol, It's actually a snow fence.

[streetkings01]

Just posted @ 9:39PM by the SunSentinel

Clay was offered a contract by Buffalo, but hasn't signed an offer sheet. Because the Dolphins placed the transition tag on Clay they have seven days to match any offer made. However, that appears unlikely. The Dolphins will not receive any compensation for losing Clay, but will get the cap space back.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/m...html?track=rss (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dolphins-free-agency-0313-20150312-story.html?track=rss)

[feldspar]

I thought it was 5 days, not 7.

[Buffalogic]

Early reports on Cameron is they gave 2 years at 15 mil. Depends on signing bonus and allocation but I don't see Cameron being less than a 5 mil cap hit this year for them.

[Jry44]

I thought it was 5 days, not 7.

5 days is correct. It was 7 under the old CBA.

[Mr. Miyagi]

**** Clay and his ****ing around. Trade for Vernon Davis.
I'm almost there myself. You can't blame the guy for trying to get the best offer but this is getting annoying. Also seems like Miami I'd going to spite us by not removing the tag from Clay.

[The Jokeman]

Watch Miami get both

Both at over $7m each? That's a lot of stock to put in the TE position when they have some question at the WR position.

[The Jokeman]

I thought it was 5 days, not 7.

I think the confusion is days when I read 5 vs 7 I have a feeling that it might be 5 business days (ie weekends don't count) yet ironic since most of the NFL plays on Sundays.

[The Jokeman]

Just posted @ 9:39PM by the SunSentinel

Clay was offered a contract by Buffalo, but hasn't signed an offer sheet. Because the Dolphins placed the transition tag on Clay they have seven days to match any offer made. However, that appears unlikely. The Dolphins will not receive any compensation for losing Clay, but will get the cap space back.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/m...html?track=rss (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-dolphins-free-agency-0313-20150312-story.html?track=rss)

It made sense I mean if Cleveland offered him more than Buffalo then he might consider signing that sheet. Yet if I'm Clay I might not think too well of Cleveland that they nearly signed Cameron after meeting with me and/or didn't offer me anything and come back here. Or maybe he went there and didn't like what they had to offer and that's why they tried to sign Cameron instead etc.

[better days]

Let Cleveland and Miami fight over TE's. Time to move on. We can probably get four decent contributors for the money we would have to offer Clay to procure his services.

So do you want mediocre TE's like the Bills have always had or do you want to pay for a GOOD TE?

[BertSquirtgum]

Mike Tannenbaum you crazy mother****er.

You guys can keep him. Can't wait until your teams crumbles under the cap weight in 2016.

[BertSquirtgum]

Watch Miami get both

I hope you do.

[BertSquirtgum]

I'd rather the Bills sign Fasano for half the money.

[YardRat]

So do you want mediocre TE's like the Bills have always had or do you want to pay for a GOOD TE?

I don't want to get in a bidding war over a TE unless he is a legit difference-maker, and I don't think Clay or Cameron qualify.

[snow1989]

I don't want to get in a bidding war over a TE unless he is a legit difference-maker, and I don't think Clay or Cameron qualify.

Exactly.....if you were going to compare Chandler, Clay and Graham and go on a one thru 10 grading system with 5 being average....

Chandler might be a 4....Graham is probably a 9......and Clay would come in about a 6. Fewer catches, yards, TD's than Graham, but more than Chandler, except for TD's, that was still relatively close. I can't see paying huge money for a very slightly above average guy.

[Night Train]

It made sense I mean if Cleveland offered him more than Buffalo then he might consider signing that sheet. Yet if I'm Clay I might not think too well of Cleveland that they nearly signed Cameron after meeting with me and/or didn't offer me anything and come back here. Or maybe he went there and didn't like what they had to offer and that's why they tried to sign Cameron instead etc.

He's probably thinking " Good God, neither team has a QB. Will I ever see the ball ? This isn't picking a team, it's picking a poison " :assclown:

[Don't Panic]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12471858/jordan-cameron-signs-miami-dolphins

$7.5 million a year for a player graded a touch lower than Clay was. It will be interesting to see how this affects Clay's offer from the Bills. Are they locked into the terms, at least in good practice, or do they pull that offer and start from scratch?

[Night Train]

What offer from the Bills ?

[elltrain22]

WGR reported that Charles Robinson said that Buffalo is preparing an offer sheet that will be given to Clay either today or tomorrow, and they are very confident the Dolphins will not match the offer.

[Don't Panic]

Maybe they were waiting to put it on paper with the thought that the Fins might go grab his replacement sooner, which would drive down a huge suitor for Clay. I highly doubt what was being framed two days ago is what he ends up seeing.

[better days]

Maybe they were waiting to put it on paper with the thought that the Fins might go grab his replacement sooner, which would drive down a huge suitor for Clay. I highly doubt what was being framed two days ago is what he ends up seeing.

I think the money will be the same but the contract will be structured differently.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I merged the 17 separate Charles Clay related threads into one.

So, WTF is going on now? Is he talking to Miami still? Cleveland?

[Mr. Miyagi]

With all this hype and heartache about Clay, it would be so karma that we overpay for him and he blows a knee in training camp.

Knock on wood.

[better days]

Exactly.....if you were going to compare Chandler, Clay and Graham and go on a one thru 10 grading system with 5 being average....

Chandler might be a 4....Graham is probably a 9......and Clay would come in about a 6. Fewer catches, yards, TD's than Graham, but more than Chandler, except for TD's, that was still relatively close. I can't see paying huge money for a very slightly above average guy.

The difference between Clay & Chandler is that besides playing TE, Clay can play in the backfield. Clay can block, he can run the ball & he can go out for passes from the back field.

Chandler is a pass catching TE & that is it, he can't even block very well from the TE position which is crazy considering his size.

[Mahdi]

The difference between Clay & Chandler is that besides playing TE, Clay can play in the backfield. Clay can block, he can run the ball & he can go out for passes from the back field.

Chandler is a pass catching TE & that is it, he can't even block very well from the TE position which is crazy considering his size.

2 main reasons Bills want Clay over Chandler --

1. How fast Clay can get open in the middle of the field - They want guys that create easy throws for whoever our QB is.

2. Blocking

Versatility in backfield is just a bonus.

[Night Train]

I merged the 17 separate Charles Clay related threads into one.

So, WTF is going on now? Is he talking to Miami still? Cleveland?

Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports says he is visiting the Perth Dragons of the Austrailian Football League.

[whkfc]

Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports says he is visiting the Perth Dragons of the Austrailian Football League.

The former WWE ref Charles Robinson?

- - - Updated - - -


Charles Robinson of Yahoo Sports says he is visiting the Perth Dragons of the Austrailian Football League.

The former WWE ref Charles Robinson?

[GvilleBills]

The former WWE ref Charles Robinson?

- - - Updated - - -



The former WWE ref Charles Robinson?


Lil' Nature Boy?

[Mahdi]

Is it possible the Bills are dragging this out because they already have a verbal deal in place with Clay and they would rather leave the dolphins to be on the hook for the 7 mil in cap hit and prevent them from doing business?

Like if the Bills have agreed they will sign him to a deal worth 8.5 mil per and then just tell him to go home and wait that would force the Dolphins to remove the tag because as the days pass they can't do anything until his 7 mil cap number comes off which only happens if they take off the tag.

Only other option would be to beat 8.5 mil per and the guaranteed Buffalo would have offered. The more time passes the worse it gets for the Fins.

[better days]

I merged the 17 separate Charles Clay related threads into one.

So, WTF is going on now? Is he talking to Miami still? Cleveland?


The last I heard is it will come down to Buffalo & Miami.

The Browns are out.

[Static]

I think it will come down to does Clay want to go 8-8 in miami or 8-8 in buffalo, and which is the better spot to watch the playoffs from.....

[Yasgur's Farm]

I'd like to add...
3. YAC - Candler goes down easier than a drunk whore.
2 main reasons Bills want Clay over Chandler --

1. How fast Clay can get open in the middle of the field - They want guys that create easy throws for whoever our QB is.

2. Blocking

Versatility in backfield is just a bonus.

[better days]

I think it will come down to does Clay want to go 8-8 in miami or 8-8 in buffalo, and which is the better spot to watch the playoffs from.....

It will come down to does Miami want to match the contract Buffalo will offer Clay?

[Ed]

I think it will come down to does Clay want to go 8-8 in miami or 8-8 in buffalo, and which is the better spot to watch the playoffs from.....
It's really not up to what Clay wants. If he signs an offer sheet with the Bills then Miami either matches or they don't. If they do match then Clay has to return to Miami.

[Mr. Miyagi]

If this falls through, Jermaine Gresham is still out there. Or call up Chip Kelly for Zach Ertz. He's always in the trading mood.

[Mahdi]

If this falls through, Jermaine Gresham is still out there. Or call up Chip Kelly for Zach Ertz. He's always in the trading mood.

Zach Miller is FA. Would be a good add. Also, if you're looking for a poor man's Clay, James Casey is basically the same player just less effective.

[Mahdi]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/13/saints-trade-kenny-stills-to-miami-for-dannell-ellerbe-and-a-third/

This is relevant. Ellerbe will save the Dolphins major cap room.

[wolfpack]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/525027798851678208/_gep2s4I_normal.jpeg Ian Rapoport @RapSheet (https://twitter.com/RapSheet) · 51m 51 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/576436749468987392)

The <s>#</s>Dolphins (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Dolphins?src=hash) are still trying to sign TE Charles Clay to a long-term extension. Trade gives them more cap room.

[stuckincincy]

Zach Miller is FA. Would be a good add. Also, if you're looking for a poor man's Clay, James Casey is basically the same player just less effective.

I thought he got cut because of injuries.

[wolfpack]

LMAO!




https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/465146385856487424/fBa_iAUP_bigger.jpeg Albert Breer ‏<s>@</s>AlbertBreer (https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer) <small class="time"> 31m31 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/576450402415161344) </small>
Dolphins still wanna keep Charles Clay -- coaches envision using him and Jordan Cameron like Pats used to use Hernandez and Gronk.

[MidnightVoice]

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/

By keeping the transition tag on Clay, the Dolphins could be using their leverage to squeeze the Bills' remaining salary-cap space. The Bills are expected to make a front-loaded offer sheet to Clay that makes it harder for the Dolphins to match, but doing so would also force the Bills into a more difficult financial position. There are several moving parts that make it hard to pin down their exact salary-cap space at the moment, but the Bills would be in a tight spot if they're paying Clay more than his $7.071 million transition figure, which is already the eighth-highest 2015 cap hit among NFL tight ends.

[The Jokeman]

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/

By keeping the transition tag on Clay, the Dolphins could be using their leverage to squeeze the Bills' remaining salary-cap space. The Bills are expected to make a front-loaded offer sheet to Clay that makes it harder for the Dolphins to match, but doing so would also force the Bills into a more difficult financial position. There are several moving parts that make it hard to pin down their exact salary-cap space at the moment, but the Bills would be in a tight spot if they're paying Clay more than his $7.071 million transition figure, which is already the eighth-highest 2015 cap hit among NFL tight ends.


In other words the Bills and Dolphins are in a game of chicken. The Bills want to see if the Dolphins sign Clay to his tag or set him free. The more cap space the Dolphins move the more of a chance they may sign Clay but at the same time their LBs look worse and worse. In the end I think the Bills will land Clay as I just don't see how the Dolphins can justify paying two TEs over $7m.

[MidnightVoice]

In the end I think the Bills will land Clay as I just don't see how the Dolphins can justify paying two TEs over $7m.That is what I am kinda hoping

[Mike13]

The Dolphins just freed $6 million in cap space after the Kenny Stills trade.

Guess where that money is going.

[The Jokeman]

The Dolphins just freed $6 million in cap space after the Kenny Stills trade.

Guess where that money is going.

Sign a LB who can play three downs?

[Night Train]

Let's draft one and pay him between 500 grand and 1 Mil a year..and use him just as effectively.

[Mike13]

Sign a LB who can play three downs?

I honestly think we take LB in the first, probably after a trade down. It depends on what happens with Mike Walllace

Then again Suh made backup LBs look good in Detroit.

[The Jokeman]

I honestly think we take LB in the first, probably after a trade down. It depends on what happens with Mike Walllace

Then again Suh made backup LBs look good in Detroit.

Suh also worked with Nick Fairley and am sorry but I don't consider DeAndre Levy a backup he's arguable one of the best coverage LBs in the NFL. Yet I can't see anyone taking Wallace's contract and headaches away from Miami in a trade.

[Mike13]

Suh also worked with Nick Fairley and am sorry but I don't consider DeAndre Levy a backup he's arguable one of the best coverage LBs in the NFL. Yet I can't see anyone taking Wallace's contract and headaches away from Miami in a trade.

Neither can I.

[BertSquirtgum]

The Dolphins just freed $6 million in cap space after the Kenny Stills trade.

Guess where that money is going.

You can have him at 8 million a year. He ain't that good.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

except we still have no freaking tight end..... ugh

[The Jokeman]

except we still have no freaking tight end..... ugh
Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the Bills 2015 roster.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the Bills 2015 roster.

i get that, but we are running out of good to decent options, especially since chandler is gone.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Suh also worked with Nick Fairley and am sorry but I don't consider DeAndre Levy a backup he's arguable one of the best coverage LBs in the NFL. Yet I can't see anyone taking Wallace's contract and headaches away from Miami in a trade.

unfortunately, you may be wrong

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/13/report-mike-wallace-likely-to-be-traded-to-vikings/

[The Jokeman]

i get that, but we are running out of good to decent options, especially since chandler is gone.

I hear you but I gave trust in Whaley.

[The Jokeman]

unfortunately, you may be wrong

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/13/report-mike-wallace-likely-to-be-traded-to-vikings/

Damn Vikings, it makes sense since they've got nothing at WR outside Patterson. I hope the Bills sign Clay to an offer sheet tomorrow and maybe the Bills can remind the Vikings how nice we were to take Cassel off their hands and have them hold off on trading for Wallace a few days.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Damn Vikings, it makes sense since they've got nothing at WR outside Patterson. I hope the Bills sign Clay to an offer sheet tomorrow and maybe the Bills can remind the Vikings how nice we were to take Cassel off their hands and have them hold off on trading for Wallace a few days.

yea, i think the vikings just inadvertantly f***ed us

[JohnnyGold]

i get that, but we are running out of good to decent options, especially since chandler is gone.


dude.

chandler being released and the bills pursuing clay have nothing to do with each other, regardless of them playing the same position.

chandler sucked. i liked the guy, but he sucked. being a leading receiver on a team and having 40 grabs and 500 some odd yards says more about a woefully ineffective offense than his ability to do anything out-of-this-world football related. on top of that, aside from last year's 9-7 campaign, which was entirely thanks to the defense, he was "the receiving centerpiece" of a handful of 6-10 squads. i would argue that out of the skill position players on our ROSTER (not just offense) he was by far and away the worst, AND he didn't play special teams, AND he had a contract that was beneficial to cut, as it didn't eat up cap space with him out of town.

With all that being said, I hope we get Clay too, it would be a nice cherry on the top of a great offseason.

But lets not get worked up about the gaping hole at tight end now that Chandler is gone.

A 3rd round pick or camp cut would be EQUALLY as good as him, if not Grey (already on the roster).

And now with the additions of Harvin and McCoy, it's crystal clear that a TE as a receiving threat would have been/will be option #5 on offense.

That can be replaced.

[USC_Gamecock]

I still think Chris Gragg can be a good one -- he was damn good at Arkansas in college. He's just on the short side, way short of a TE -- 6'3".

[Jry44]

You can have him at 8 million a year. He ain't that good.

I actually agree with you, and I'm not sure how to feel about it...

I don't get the Clay obsession. I've always thought he was average.

[BertSquirtgum]

Mike Wallace has been traded. Miami is keeping Clay, imo. Very good news.

[swiper]

Let's draft one and pay him between 500 grand and 1 Mil a year..and use him just as effectively.


Gray.

Gragg.

[Mike13]

Davante Parker and Kenny Stills in Miami? I like the sound of that.

[BertSquirtgum]

Davante Parker and Kenny Stills in Miami? I like the sound of that.

Me too

[ghz in pittsburgh]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/512400113151389697/-PQoxwQb_normal.jpegTim Graham @ByTimGraham (https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham) · 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/576913405799432192)

Dolphins will keep the transition tag on Charles Clay, so they'll still have final say. But they've apparently turned the page.


- - - Updated - - -

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/512400113151389697/-PQoxwQb_normal.jpegTim Graham @ByTimGraham (https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham) · 1h1 hour ago (https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/576912178470625281)

Knowledgable source tells me Dolphins have "lost patience" with and "moved on" from Charles Clay. At moment, Fins expect him to be a Bill.

[Mahdi]

Sounds like they're trying to trick the Bills.

Buffalo thinks Fins don't want him anymore so they think they can get away with giving Clay a lower cap number...

...Then dolphins match. It's all mind games being played through the media.

Fins will never remove the tag anyway because it just forces Bills to hurt their cap this year.

[Buffalo Billy Bison]

Player Page

Weather | Roster



Charles Clay | Tight End

Team: Miami Dolphins
Age / DOB: (26) / 2/13/1989
Ht / Wt: 6'3' / 255
College: Tulsa
Contract: view contract details
Share:


LATEST NEWS

RECENT NEWS

A source tells the Buffalo News that the Dolphins have "lost patience" and plan to move on from transition player Charles Clay.
The Dolphins are reportedly expecting Clay to sign with Buffalo. The Bills have still yet to extend Clay an offer sheet, but are attempting to structure a deal that Miami won't be able to match. There should be more clarity on Clay's situation in the next 48 hours. The Dolphins saved $9.9 million in cap space by trading Mike Wallace, but can afford to move on from Clay after signing Jordan Cameron. Mar 14 - 9:17 PM

[Night Train]

Will someone give Clay a prom dress and a kiss ?

I'm sick of reading about this.

[RedEyE]

There is that state income tax thing. NY just can't compete with Florida. Curious how that figures into a players decision.

[Novacane]

There is that state income tax thing. NY just can't compete with Florida. Curious how that figures into a players decision.

I'm sure it figures a lot. It would with me.

[X-Era]

Are the Bills playing this right? Seems like they have waited until the Fins lost interest thinking the Fins wouldn't match any ways. Now they aren't bidding against themselves. I guess it could back fire if they banked on the Fins not matching and offered a lower deal.

[The Jokeman]

Are the Bills playing this right? Seems like they have waited until the Fins lost interest thinking the Fins wouldn't match any ways. Now they aren't bidding against themselves. I guess it could back fire if they banked on the Fins not matching and offered a lower deal.

To quote an old adage, "time will tell". I get everyone wants this saga to end but it's not an easy one. For all we know both the Bills and Clay want him to play in Buffalo and yet Miami is doing every thing in it's means to prevent that. So perhaps this waiting game is Clay's agent way of telling the Dolphins his client isn't happy. Of course the Dolphins making other moves to free up cap space doesn't bode well for the Bills but the Dolphins do have some other roster holes that haven't been filled yet. Specifically at backup QB, LB and FS which they may use some of their newly acquired cap space to fill.

[Mr. Miyagi]

There is that state income tax thing. NY just can't compete with Florida. Curious how that figures into a players decision.
It's interesting that Florida has had no state income tax forever yet this is the first off season anyone has talked about this. Why suddenly a big deal? How has it worked out for Miami Tampa and Jacksonville in the last 20 years?

[Yasgur's Farm]

Weak source... But says Clay signed offer sheet with Bills.
https://twitter.com/FANtasyTandem

***BREAKING NEWS*** Charles Clay signs a 4 year 36 mill deal with Bills. Miami now has right to match.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Are the Bills playing this right? Seems like they have waited until the Fins lost interest thinking the Fins wouldn't match any ways. Now they aren't bidding against themselves. I guess it could back fire if they banked on the Fins not matching and offered a lower deal.
It's not like we're that tight against the cap. If we really wanted him that badly we'd make an offer Miami can't match. Pegula has shown he's not afraid to plunk down the money.

[The Jokeman]

Weak source... But says Clay signed offer sheet with Bills.
https://twitter.com/FANtasyTandem

Yeah judging by the other tweets on that site I don't trust that at all.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It's not like we're that tight against the cap. If we really wanted him that badly we'd make an offer Miami can't match. Pegula has shown he's not afraid to plunk down the money.

I'm not sure there is an offer Miami "can't" match. With respect to Clay specifically, they have more space then we do.

That and I don't want to throw some completely absurd contract at an H-Back just because he plays for Miami. The guy isn't Antonio Gates.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It's interesting that Florida has had no state income tax forever yet this is the first off season anyone has talked about this. Why suddenly a big deal? How has it worked out for Miami Tampa and Jacksonville in the last 20 years?

It's been mentioned repeatedly over the years, and Tampa and Miami both have taken advantage of it.

Just because the teams have sucked, don't forget how active both of them have been in free agency over the last several years: Vincent Jackson, Mike Wallace, Dannell Ellerbe, Karlos Dansby, Michael Johnson, Carl Nicks, Dashon Goldson, etc etc

Jacksonville is just a hole, though.

[SpikedLemonade]

Weak source... But says Clay signed offer sheet with Bills.
https://twitter.com/FANtasyTandem

If we pay $9M/yr for a non-Pro Bowl TE, we should be laughed at.

[Woodman]

It's called the Buffalo tax.