Honest question for Spiked and Downinfloflo

[OpIv37]

How would you have handled the Sabres?

Here are the facts: it's the trade deadline of the lockout shortened 12-13 season. Regier gets fired and you get hired. I don't need to know every single thing you would have done, but please tell us how you would have handled the following situations and why you think it would have made the Sabres competitive.

Keep in mind:
-Miller's contract expires after 13-14 and he has said he isn't coming back.
-Leino's been a disaster-buy him out or not?
-How would you handle Roy, Pominville Stafford and Vanek? Vanek's done after 13-14 and it's unclear if he wants to come back. Stafford's done after 14-15.
-Ruff is fired- who's your coach?
-Ehrhof has a big cap hit and is dissatisfied.
-Finally, the Sabres have been trying to win since Bloody Sunday using a core of Miller, Stafford, Vanek, Roy, Pominville and all it's gotten them is 2 8 seeds with first round losses (and three years without playoffs).

This is an honest question. The Sabres chose to break it down and horde cap space and draft picks, and both have you have been very critical. I follow this team closely and I can't think of anything they could have done since the lockout that would have made them competitive this year, and I think a lot of the board agrees. So I just want to know what you two think we missed.

[Downinfloflo]

How would you have handled the Sabres?

Here are the facts: it's the trade deadline of the lockout shortened 12-13 season. Regier gets fired and you get hired. I don't need to know every single thing you would have done, but please tell us how you would have handled the following situations and why you think it would have made the Sabres competitive.

Keep in mind:

-Miller's contract expires after 13-14 and he has said he isn't coming back.

When did he say he was not coming back?? Sabres even offer to try and bring him back??





-Leino's been a disaster-buy him out or not?

Buy him out, He was disgustingly bad. Would have been perfect for the tank tho he never scored for the Sabres anyway no loss there.


-How would you handle Roy, Pominville Stafford and Vanek? Vanek's done after 13-14 and it's unclear if he wants to come back. Stafford's done after 14-15.

You got garbage roster players for Poms, Nothing that could help you get wins, You got picks that may or may not play in the NHL.

Stafford and Myers were both traded for a guy who can't help you for a year, That's what Murray wanted, Stay away from anyone who can help you now.

The Vanek trade was bad for Buffalo and New York, Again the Sabres got nothing that could help them win.

I would have tried to get players that could help my team today..



-Ruff is fired- who's your coach?

What were my options? Sabres went with a coach who is proven to not know much about the x's and o's of hockey, I would tried to get a coach that does.


-Ehrhof has a big cap hit and is dissatisfied.

This was a panic signing, Much like the Tyler Myers contract...I would never have signed either of them, Myers was fine on his ELC.


-Finally, the Sabres have been trying to win since Bloody Sunday using a core of Miller, Stafford, Vanek, Roy, Pominville and all it's gotten them is 2 8 seeds with first round losses (and three years without playoffs).

We would know more about the direction the Sabres planned to go in if Pat Lafontane did not have a gag order on him.

The Rangers missed the playoff for like 9 years in a row in the 2000's, They never had to gut their roster to improve it, Or pick in the top 5 in the draft.


This is an honest question. The Sabres chose to break it down and horde cap space and draft picks, and both have you have been very critical. I follow this team closely and I can't think of anything they could have done since the lockout that would have made them competitive this year, and I think a lot of the board agrees. So I just want to know what you two think we missed.

[SpikedLemonade]

Under the above scenario, did I tell all the upcoming FAs that it was my intention to tank the team for 2013-2014 and 2014-2015 before they logically said they were not interested in signing here?

To shut down the team last year mid-season has been done before but to plan for next season to also tank is what is unique above what Murray did.

Signing 2 meaningless FAs from Montreal as camouflage fooled no one. They both went through the motions this year rather than offer any supposed leadership. They were signed to raise the team's salary on a short term basis.

I would have signed more FAs last off-season and yes they would be younger ones. I would also have my 1st draft pick playing on my team this year rather than worrying that the losing atmosphere may not be good for him. There will be plenty of losing next year as well.

To make yourself feel better by saying the Sabres had no choice but to go on an intentional 2 or more year tank is really attempting to rationalize why the integrity of the game should have no meaning.

Other teams have been in the Sabres situation and never choose this course of action for such an extended period of time to such an embarrassing degree.

You should be proud.

[casdhf]

Yet there are more teams now taking the same path

[JATMtheJATM]

George's wasn't a free agent.

[SpikedLemonade]

Yet there are more teams now taking the same path

That would require the Oilers, Coyotes and Leafs to plan on tanking next year.

I don't believe the fan bases of any of those 3 teams would stand for their team tanking this year and next on purpose.

It will not be a planned multi-year tank.

[SpikedLemonade]

George's wasn't a free agent.

Low level trade then. The Habs were looking to dump his salary.

[OpIv37]

FYi Stafford and Myers were traded for a guy who can't help now after we already had no shot to be better than maybe 27th. And how much value do you think Poms had? He did nothing without Briere and Drury to hide behind.

[Downinfloflo]

Yet there are more teams now taking the same path

McJesus...

[Downinfloflo]

Murray took over the team with an eye on the 2015 draft, Like I said earlier, We will never know what happened with the guy who hired him and the direction he wanted to see the team go in because he has a gag order on him.

Murray could have re tooled the roster, But he want's to show the world how smart he is.

The Rangers played for the cup last year and they are currently in 1st place in the NHL because they trade for proven roster players.

Not draft picks that have a 50-50 shot at best of making it in the NHL, Draft picks are usually 3-5 years away from doing much if at all.

[OpIv37]

Murray took over the team with an eye on the 2015 draft, Like I said earlier, We will never know what happened with the guy who hired him and the direction he wanted to see the team go in because he has a gag order on him.

Murray could have re tooled the roster, But he want's to show the world how smart he is.

The Rangers played for the cup last year and they are currently in 1st place in the NHL because they trade for proven roster players.

Not draft picks that have a 50-50 shot at best of making it in the NHL, Draft picks are usually 3-5 years away from doing much if at all.

I disagree with the premise that the Sabres could have traded for proven players. Who did we have to trade? The few guys that were worth a damn were on expiring contracts, which drops their value.

I don't follow the Rangers that much, but I do know that they spend up to the cap. They get burned on Jagr, Gomez, Drury, yet the next season they're out there throwing money around. Golisano didn't spend. Pegula spent on Ehrof and Leino, both of whom are bums by your own admission earlier in this thread.

The cupboard was bare.

We could be a bubble team right up against the cap, on the verge of cap jail, or we could be where we are now.

[SpikedLemonade]

Poor poor Sabres.

They had no choice but to intentionally tank for at least 2 years.

[Downinfloflo]

I disagree with the premise that the Sabres could have traded for proven players. Who did we have to trade? The few guys that were worth a damn were on expiring contracts, which drops their value.

I don't follow the Rangers that much, but I do know that they spend up to the cap. They get burned on Jagr, Gomez, Drury, yet the next season they're out there throwing money around. Golisano didn't spend. Pegula spent on Ehrof and Leino, both of whom are bums by your own admission earlier in this thread.

The cupboard was bare.

We could be a bubble team right up against the cap, on the verge of cap jail, or we could be where we are now.

Maybe it's just Buffalo, Players get depressed, They are human after all.

[Ginger Vitis]

Alice Cooper a big Coyotes fan and season ticket holder admitted he is fine with the Coyotes losing right now

[OpIv37]

Maybe it's just Buffalo, Players get depressed, They are human after all.

Look man, I don't know what you think Sabres fans are going through but this is awful. In the long run, I know this will be worth it if it's done right, and I'm tired of being a bubble team that doesn't get out of the first round. But the reality is that being a bubble team fighting for the 7 or 8 seed is much more fun than just hoping the team doesn't embarrass themselves every year.

This was inevitable. We could have been mediocre for another three years, we could have broke it down 3 years ago when Pegula took over, but previous management screwed us so bad that it was going to happen,

[SpikedLemonade]

Alice Cooper a big Coyotes fan and season ticket holder admitted he is fine with the Coyotes losing right now

Well, that ends this thread.

Can't argue with Alice Cooper when it comes to hockey.

[Ginger Vitis]

A old washed up rocker in his late 60s was foaming at the mouth and drooling when the interviewer brought up Connor McDavid lol

[SpikedLemonade]

A old washed up rocker in his late 60s was foaming at the mouth and drooling when the interviewer brought up Connor McDavid lol

I saw him on DDD where he owns a restaurant that has a hot dog on the menu the size of an elephants penis.

[casdhf]

Murray took over the team with an eye on the 2015 draft, Like I said earlier, We will never know what happened with the guy who hired him and the direction he wanted to see the team go in because he has a gag order on him.

Murray could have re tooled the roster, But he want's to show the world how smart he is.

The Rangers played for the cup last year and they are currently in 1st place in the NHL because they trade for proven roster players.

Not draft picks that have a 50-50 shot at best of making it in the NHL, Draft picks are usually 3-5 years away from doing much if at all.they didn't win. Who cares?

[Skooby]

Well, that ends this thread.

Can't argue with Alice Cooper when it comes to hockey.
That's an ugly lady, LOL.

[Downinfloflo]

they didn't win. Who cares?

I tell you what, It sure as hell is a lot more fun watching your team play for the cup (Not that you would know, But try to imagine it) win or loose than it is watching them play for a lotto pick.

[casdhf]

How would I not know? I saw our last finals. The put of more of a fight than the Rangers did last year. You're telling me you enjoyed that slaughtering?

[chernobylwraiths]

yeah, we know nothing of having a good season

[Dr. Lecter]

OK, there are a couple of things that are wrong here from different people</SPAN>



The core of Pominville, Vanek, Stafford, Miller, etc. did more than just 2 8 seeds. They won the Northeast too. Still lost in round 1, but just for accuracy’s sake they did more than just squeak in</SPAN>
Now for FloFlo</SPAN>

Yes – the Sabres talked to Miller and he wasn’t interested in a rebuild</SPAN>
They got more than garbage players for Pominville. Larsson will very possibly be a solid 3rd line guy or 4th line player who can move up when there is injury. They also got the pick who turned in Zadarov. In the Vanek deal, which was very good for Buffalo, the Sabres got Moulson who was moved last year and also got the Islanders 1st round pick this year. Come on man – if you’re going to knock them at least try to be a little accurate. Don’t be obtuse.</SPAN>
Myers ELC was up and they needed to sign him to a deal. Maybe the deal they signed was too much, but his ELC was not fine because it expired. </SPAN>


Your biggest problem is that you’re so wrapped up in ripping them that you don’t let facts get in your way. There is certainly a lot of room to bash them. You don’t need to invent ones that don’t exist. </SPAN>

[Skooby]

What's the fascination with bashing the worst team last year and this year ?? Reality of the matter is the bad teams get good picks and we're bad, so what's the problem ?? Someone has to make the first few picks, might as well be Buffalo.

The Sabres haven't focused on getting good this year and have a very young team, they'll get better and add talent (some generational). Then you can come back for your return abuse, which we will be glad to provide. Until then, GO F-Yourself.

[OpIv37]

The Sabres used the last two seasons to dump garbage players (and their contracts), stockpile draft picks and let young guys get experience. They aren't the first team to do it and they won't be the last.

The only difference is that this year, there are two top prospects at the head of the draft, and the lottery system guarantees one of them to the team that finishes 30th. So, tanking this year is a better bet than tanking in most seasons.

That's it.

[Dr. Lecter]

Not all of the players they dumped were garbage - many were good players who had expiring deals. (For the life of me,the Pominvill hate is amongst the dumbest thing in this forum. He wasn't a physical player, so Buffalo fans go nuts and act like he wasn't a hard worker and the same stupid blue collar bull **** that runs through this city, but I digress).

Regardless, the idea of dumping pending FA's is common It's what teams do.

Did the Sabres fall farther down than many teams? For sure. But the concept is the same, not how much people want to spin it

[JATMtheJATM]

What I don't get is the bashing of buffalo, saying no one wants to play here, then turning around and slamming the Sabres for not attracting free agents.

Simply saying "I'd sign free agents" isn't the way it goes.

[SpikedLemonade]

yeah, we know nothing of having a good season

You tell them.

Two losses in the Stanley Cup Finals in 45 years is not nothing.

[SpikedLemonade]

What's the fascination with bashing the worst team last year and this year ??

Because it was intentionally planned.

[OpIv37]

Not all of the players they dumped were garbage - many were good players who had expiring deals. (For the life of me,the Pominvill hate is amongst the dumbest thing in this forum. He wasn't a physical player, so Buffalo fans go nuts and act like he wasn't a hard worker and the same stupid blue collar bull **** that runs through this city, but I digress).

Regardless, the idea of dumping pending FA's is common It's what teams do.

Did the Sabres fall farther down than many teams? For sure. But the concept is the same, not how much people want to spin it
maybe "garbage" is a bit harsh but Poms was supposed to be a leader here. A first liner who performed consistently. He wasn't even close to being up for the task.

You could argue that it's on management to recognize that and put him in a more suitable role, but they didn't. So, he either had to live up to the expectation or the team would lose. We know how that turned out....

- - - Updated - - -


Because it was intentionally planned.

Yes. It's called rebuilding.

[JATMtheJATM]

Pominville is a second line winger who was paid and was played like a first liner. It's that failure to recognize those distinctions that made the complete tear down necessary.

[Dr. Lecter]

maybe "garbage" is a bit harsh but Poms was supposed to be a leader here. A first liner who performed consistently. He wasn't even close to being up for the task.

You could argue that it's on management to recognize that and put him in a more suitable role, but they didn't. So, he either had to live up to the expectation or the team would lose. We know how that turned out....

-

So if you were put in the Octagon against GSP and lose, because UFC built you up as a viable contendor, it would be your fault?

[OpIv37]

So if you were put in the Octagon against GSP and lose, because UFC built you up as a viable contendor, it would be your fault?

No, but the fans who were rooting for me would be disappointed, and possibly pissed off depending on how much they actually cared about me (or if they had money on the fight).

[chernobylwraiths]

You tell them.

Two losses in the Stanley Cup Finals in 45 years is not nothing.

So, being in the Finals is the only prerequisite for "having a good season"? I didn't realize how many teams havn't had a good season in years, or ever.

[chernobylwraiths]

Not all of the players they dumped were garbage - many were good players who had expiring deals. (For the life of me,the Pominvill hate is amongst the dumbest thing in this forum. He wasn't a physical player, so Buffalo fans go nuts and act like he wasn't a hard worker and the same stupid blue collar bull **** that runs through this city, but I digress).

Regardless, the idea of dumping pending FA's is common It's what teams do.

Did the Sabres fall farther down than many teams? For sure. But the concept is the same, not how much people want to spin it

Hmm, I wonder who that Pomminville rant was directed at? :D

and just to be clear, sure I didn't like that he wasn't physical, but I was more upset with something that really had nothing to do with him. He was paid a very nice salary for a second line player. He is a good to very good player, but he would never be much more than a complimentary player and a very good penalty killer.

[Downinfloflo]

How would I not know? I saw our last finals. The put of more of a fight than the Rangers did last year. You're telling me you enjoyed that slaughtering?

They lost 4 games, 3 of the 4 went into overtime, 2 of the overtime games went into double overtime.

It was great, Do they have overtime for the lotto?

[casdhf]

No, but I'm sure we'll be disappointed at the end, too.

[Dr. Lecter]

Hmm, I wonder who that Pomminville rant was directed at? :D

and just to be clear, sure I didn't like that he wasn't physical, but I was more upset with something that really had nothing to do with him. He was paid a very nice salary for a second line player. He is a good to very good player, but he would never be much more than a complimentary player and a very good penalty killer.
It wasn't just you -it was in general

And yes he was overpaid. He's a damn solid player, very good at the PK and would be great on a second line, chipping in 25 goals and 35-40 assists.

But people act like he has the skills of Cody McCormick or Zac Dalpe sometimes and that's silly