Pessimists/Haters please comment, if you dare..

[elltrain22]

I don't disagree that our current QB stable is not nearly up to par w/ the status quo teams like NE, Den, & GB. However, we have so much offensive talent, that I will argue that an average QB can be viable (not great or even good) in this offense. That is one thing that most point out. We and any successful team needs to have a QB that is a game changer, a guy that can outscore defenses. We don't have that. I don't dispute that at all!! What do we have?? A defense, that we know, can shut any QB down....

If we came into last season knowing Kyle Orton was our QB, we'd have all been despondent, and would not have believed that our team could've been a playoff contender. Truth be told, I would have factored into this sterotype.

Honestly ask yourself these 2 questions. If Orton would've started all 16 games last year, don't you think our team was good enough to make the playoffs??? We were 9-7, but IMHO, we would've won at least 1 game that EJ lost.

2nd question, don't you totally agree that with the weapons we know have on offense, plus Ignognito, and you can only assume another addition of the offensive line via the draft or FA, that Matt Cassell is an equal or an even better option than Kyle Orton?? I am a realistic Bills fan, and even I can answer both these questions with a resounding yes.

What say you??

Go Bills!! BTW, tank on Sabres!!!

[BuffaloRedleg]

tl;dr Bills will win Superbowl bank it

[YardRat]

You are assuming that the defense will be able to at least replicate their performance from last season, and with the switch I'm not real confident in that happening.

Will the offense improve this season? I certainly hope so, it can't get much worse. Will it be enough to overcome the regression of the defense? I have serious doubts. IMO the Ryan hire automatically kicked us back to a 6-10 team, and we're building on that for this season, not 9-7.

As I said in another thread, I'd be looking forward to this season much more, and probably look more favorably upon some of the off season acquisitions, if the defense were intact and moving forward. But it isn't.

[BuffaloRedleg]

You are assuming that the defense will be able to at least replicate their performance from last season, and with the switch I'm not real confident in that happening.

Will the offense improve this season? I certainly hope so, it can't get much worse. Will it be enough to overcome the regression of the defense? I have serious doubts. IMO the Ryan hire automatically kicked us back to a 6-10 team, and we're building on that for this season, not 9-7.

As I said in another thread, I'd be looking forward to this season much more, and probably look more favorably upon some of the off season acquisitions, if the defense were intact and moving forward. But it isn't.

Oh come on. You aren't confident about the defense? So are you less than 50%? They will be fine that is an insane amount of talent on defense. If you think they were just good because of scheme then I don't know what to tell you.

The offense? Okay, that I'll talk about. That is the delta in this whole change.

The magical scheme change that everyone pretends they know will happen is not a problem, that's just grasping at straws. Great players are just great players and I'm sure they are smart enough to know how to work that.

[Strongman]

I think our roster has improved and Roman will be an upgrade over Hackett and Marrone's college football playbook. If our Defense is as good as last year, I think we are looking at +2 wins over last season's record.

[Meathead]

you have a funny haircut

oh you mean about football

[HHURRICANE]

The playoffs require good teams with good luck. This Bills had an ok team and good luck, hence 9-7. I think this new Bills team is better. Better coaching, better talent, better owners, etc.

However, as impressive as the offensive additions are with the nucleus of current offensive talent (McCoy, Clay, Harvin Woods, And Watkins) I equate this to a corvette with a Yugo transmission. Looks good, sounds good, but your not going very far with it.....QB is going to be a massive limitation.

I think the Bills were lucky to be 9-7, and to be honest we were 8-8. The Pats gave us that game. So 10-6 is a good goal.

[Night Train]

Will it be enough to overcome the regression of the defense?

So D regression is a given, etched in stone. We are running a 3-4 D and going square peg in round hole without question.

Got it.

March 20th.

[chris66]

No oline, no qb. 9-7 at best. No playoffs

[YardRat]

Oh come on. You aren't confident about the defense? So are you less than 50%? They will be fine that is an insane amount of talent on defense. If you think they were just good because of scheme then I don't know what to tell you.

Because of scheme only? No. Because of matching the right scheme with the right players? Yes.

[YardRat]

So D regression is a given, etched in stone. We are running a 3-4 D and going square peg in round hole without question.

Got it.

March 20th.

A given? No. My opinion that it's highly likely? Yes. We've seen this defense before, with (mostly) these players. It wasn't nearly as pretty as it was last season.

[HHURRICANE]

This team is very exciting to talk about. But before we talk about players matching schemes let's not forget two teams who had similar schemes, ranked #3 and #4 in rushing, had crappy passing, and didn't win a lot of games.....the Jets and the 49rs.

I can't remember those coaches names or where they went but not sure how great their offensive schemes worked out.

[Buckets]

The playoffs require good teams with good luck. This Bills had an ok team and good luck, hence 9-7. I think this new Bills team is better. Better coaching, better talent, better owners, etc.

However, as impressive as the offensive additions are with the nucleus of current offensive talent (McCoy, Clay, Harvin Woods, And Watkins) I equate this to a corvette with a Yugo transmission. Looks good, sounds good, but your not going very far with it.....QB is going to be a massive limitation.

I think the Bills were lucky to be 9-7, and to be honest we were 8-8. The Pats gave us that game. So 10-6 is a good goal.

Maybe so but prior to the game Brady said he wanted to work on timing etc. because the passing game wasn't where he wanted it to be and we smothered him driving him from the field.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Great idea eltrain in getting all the whiners and haters to identify themselves in the same thread so we can shoot them all at once. :bf1:

[better days]

Well, I disagree with YardRat that the Defense will not do as well as last year.

In fact, I think the Defense will be BETTER than last year with Rex running a similar defense that Pettine ran the year before last.

Rex Ryan has always had a defense that rated high & he has not had players as good as the Bills players he will have this year.

EJ Manuel just turned 25 years old & has yet to start 16 games in his entire NFL career.

At age 24:

Troy Aikman 7-8 record 11 TD's 18 INT's

Drew Brees 2-9 record 11 TD's 15 INT's

Dan Fouts 2-7 record 2 TD's 10 INT's

EJ Manuel 6-8 record 16 TD's 12 INT's

It is still possible that EJ develops into an NFL starting QB maybe even a franchise QB.

It is also possible that Matt Cassel becomes Rich Gannon 2.0 Gannon was a QB that developed into a good QB late in his career.

I expect the Bills to make the playoffs this year.

[Kenny]

I think we're a much better team overall than last year. As others have commented, we cant get any worse on offense. I just dont see how we're not significantly better than last year. On defense, we might slip down a spot or two, or might even be better, but with a better offense, that'll definitely help our D.

As for the offseason moves, I liked all of them with the exception of the Shady deal. I dont even mind overpaying for Clay, since it's a position we've been weak at for years. But we lost a great young LB, likely could have picked up a young RB in the draft, and potentially hurt us cap wise next year. Plus, we could have used our time (and money) to go after Iupati or Boling. Oh well... one can dream.

[better days]

A given? No. My opinion that it's highly likely? Yes. We've seen this defense before, with (mostly) these players. It wasn't nearly as pretty as it was last season.

Kiko was the middle LB when Pettine was DC.

Kiko was great against the pass, not so much against the run.

The run game improved under Schwartz with Spikes having a lot to do with that.

I hope Spikes comes back, but if not, I have no doubt Preston Brown will play the run better than Kiko did.

[better days]

This team is very exciting to talk about. But before we talk about players matching schemes let's not forget two teams who had similar schemes, ranked #3 and #4 in rushing, had crappy passing, and didn't win a lot of games.....the Jets and the 49rs.

I can't remember those coaches names or where they went but not sure how great their offensive schemes worked out.

Well, hopefully the Bills QB play will be mediocre at worst, not TERRIBLE like the Jets & 49ers QB play last year.

[OpIv37]

I don't disagree that our current QB stable is not nearly up to par w/ the status quo teams like NE, Den, & GB. However, we have so much offensive talent, that I will argue that an average QB can be viable (not great or even good) in this offense. That is one thing that most point out. We and any successful team needs to have a QB that is a game changer, a guy that can outscore defenses. We don't have that. I don't dispute that at all!! What do we have?? A defense, that we know, can shut any QB down....

If we came into last season knowing Kyle Orton was our QB, we'd have all been despondent, and would not have believed that our team could've been a playoff contender. Truth be told, I would have factored into this sterotype.

Honestly ask yourself these 2 questions. If Orton would've started all 16 games last year, don't you think our team was good enough to make the playoffs??? We were 9-7, but IMHO, we would've won at least 1 game that EJ lost.

2nd question, don't you totally agree that with the weapons we know have on offense, plus Ignognito, and you can only assume another addition of the offensive line via the draft or FA, that Matt Cassell is an equal or an even better option than Kyle Orton?? I am a realistic Bills fan, and even I can answer both these questions with a resounding yes.

What say you??

Go Bills!! BTW, tank on Sabres!!!

1. Last year, Buffalo was 9-7. The WC's were Cincy at 10-5-1 and Balt at 10-6. Balt's conf record was 6-6 and ours was 5-7. One more conf win may or may not have gotten us in (depending on tiebreakers with a Balt). 2 more Conf wins def gets us in. EJ had two conf losses- 22-10 against SD and 23-17 against Houston. The Houston game was winnable if Orton starts. Against SD, the team didn't show up. 0 turnovers but 110 penalty yards. I don't think Orton wins that game either. So, we may or may not have made the playoffs If Orton started, depending on the tiebreakers with Balt. Also, Orton joined the team late and may not have been as successful if he had been forced to start earlier. And Orton's numbers went down after other teams had film on him and made adjustments. That may have happened sooner and he may have lost some games that he won. So, it's not a safe assumption at all to say this team is a playoff team if Orton starts every game.

2. You can't assume additions to the OL until they actually happen. We are burning through cap space and the best FA OL's are long gone. Cassel is a lateral move to Orton at best, and the rest of the skill positions are useless without an OL that can protect and a QB that can get them the ball.

[elltrain22]

You are assuming that the defense will be able to at least replicate their performance from last season, and with the switch I'm not real confident in that happening.

Will the offense improve this season? I certainly hope so, it can't get much worse. Will it be enough to overcome the regression of the defense? I have serious doubts. IMO the Ryan hire automatically kicked us back to a 6-10 team, and we're building on that for this season, not 9-7.

As I said in another thread, I'd be looking forward to this season much more, and probably look more favorably upon some of the off season acquisitions, if the defense were intact and moving forward. But it isn't.

I am assuming our defense can replicate our success. It's pretty easy for me to assume this as we are our front 7 is still in tact. We don't have Kiko, but we didn't have him last year either, and we did great. I also am confident that Rex Ryan can turn this defense into a consistent monster.

Good post btw...

[better days]

1. Last year, Buffalo was 9-7. The WC's were Cincy at 10-5-1 and Balt at 10-6. Balt's conf record was 6-6 and ours was 5-7. One more conf win may or may not have gotten us in (depending on tiebreakers with a Balt). 2 more Conf wins def gets us in. EJ had two conf losses- 22-10 against SD and 23-17 against Houston. The Houston game was winnable if Orton starts. Against SD, the team didn't show up. 0 turnovers but 110 penalty yards. I don't think Orton wins that game either. So, we may or may not have made the playoffs If Orton started, depending on the tiebreakers with Balt. Also, Orton joined the team late and may not have been as successful if he had been forced to start earlier. And Orton's numbers went down after other teams had film on him and made adjustments. That may have happened sooner and he may have lost some games that he won. So, it's not a safe assumption at all to say this team is a playoff team if Orton starts every game.

2. You can't assume additions to the OL until they actually happen. We are burning through cap space and the best FA OL's are long gone. Cassel is a lateral move to Orton at best, and the rest of the skill positions are useless without an OL that can protect and a QB that can get them the ball.

Some good points Op.

But Incognito is a Bill that has happened & is an improvement to the OL where it was needed most.

The Bills have a better OL Coach this year than last year, that has already happened as well.

And it is a well know fact that players improve between their rookie year & 2nd year especially with good coaching.

The Bills have some OL players that were rookies last year that should be better this year.

I think the Bills will add another OL player or two, but even if they don't, the OL will be better this year than it was last year.

[Novacane]

IMO the Ryan hire automatically kicked us back to a 6-10 team, and we're building on that for this season, not 9-7.
.



:headscrat

[elltrain22]

1. Last year, Buffalo was 9-7. The WC's were Cincy at 10-5-1 and Balt at 10-6. Balt's conf record was 6-6 and ours was 5-7. One more conf win may or may not have gotten us in (depending on tiebreakers with a Balt). 2 more Conf wins def gets us in. EJ had two conf losses- 22-10 against SD and 23-17 against Houston. The Houston game was winnable if Orton starts. Against SD, the team didn't show up. 0 turnovers but 110 penalty yards. I don't think Orton wins that game either. So, we may or may not have made the playoffs If Orton started, depending on the tiebreakers with Balt. Also, Orton joined the team late and may not have been as successful if he had been forced to start earlier. And Orton's numbers went down after other teams had film on him and made adjustments. That may have happened sooner and he may have lost some games that he won. So, it's not a safe assumption at all to say this team is a playoff team if Orton starts every game.

2. You can't assume additions to the OL until they actually happen. We are burning through cap space and the best FA OL's are long gone. Cassel is a lateral move to Orton at best, and the rest of the skill positions are useless without an OL that can protect and a QB that can get them the ball.

Good post as always OP!! Yes the first question is hypothetical, and its probably not an easy assumption, b/c it is a hypothetical question. IMO, however I think we win the Houston game which would put us at 10-6. I agree about the SD game, as I think SD really had our number that day, and Orton wouldn't have been a difference maker in that game.

Your second point I disagree a bit with. With FA, and cap casualties to come, I am confident we will sign a serviceble OT or OG. If not, we will address this need with our 2nd or 3rd round pick. I do agree that our O-line is a big question mark, and also that Cassel is a lateral move, but what Orton did last year was good enough for an almost playoff team, which I think we can duplicate, especially with the amount of options we have.

thanks for your opinions

[better days]

:headscrat

Rat makes Rex sound like some mediocre coach instead of one of the very best in football.

I don't know what he is thinking either.

[EDS]

So as to help frame this discussion, and to play a bit of devil's advocate, I would add to the discussion: Are the Jets now a playoff caliber team? Note that the Jets had two glaring problems from a talent and production standpoint on their team last year. QB and the defensive secondary.

Offense: While Fitz is mediocre at best, he is still a win or two improvement over Geno/Vick, and very similar to what the Bills have in Cassell. Fitz also has more receiving talent to work with that his predecessors, having both Decker and Marshall on board. Amaro, a rookie last season, also seems to be on track to be a valuable weapon for them going forward. Moreover, they could be in position to add an Amari Cooper or Kevin White in the draft. End result, the Jets have made a more significant upgrade to their QB position relative to what they had last season than the Bills. They have also added a true number one receiver.

Defense: The secondary received a massive makeover in both talent and depth. Revis is obviously a generational talent. The Jets already have a very talented defensive line so to couple that with what now appears to be a very talented secondary, well, that is a similar formula to what the Bills have.

The Jets obviously had a much worse record than the Bills last season, but line the two teams up on paper and compare.

Point is, it is relatively easy for a team to go from bad to mediocre. It is much harder to go from mediocre to very good. Injuries also play a big role.

[better days]

So as to help frame this discussion, and to play a bit of devil's advocate, I would add to the discussion: Are the Jets now a playoff caliber team? Note that the Jets had two glaring problems from a talent and production standpoint on their team last year. QB and the defensive secondary.

Offense: While Fitz is mediocre at best, he is still a win or two improvement over Geno/Vick, and very similar to what the Bills have in Cassell. Fitz also has more receiving talent to work with that his predecessors, having both Decker and Marshall on board. Amaro, a rookie last season, also seems to be on track to be a valuable weapon for them going forward. Moreover, they could be in position to add an Amari Cooper or Kevin White in the draft. End result, the Jets have made a more significant upgrade to their QB position relative to what they had last season than the Bills. They have also added a true number one receiver.

Defense: The secondary received a massive makeover in both talent and depth. Revis is obviously a generational talent. The Jets already have a very talented defensive line so to couple that with what now appears to be a very talented secondary, well, that is a similar formula to what the Bills have.

The Jets obviously had a much worse record than the Bills last season, but line the two teams up on paper and compare.

Point is, it is relatively easy for a team to go from bad to mediocre. It is much harder to go from mediocre to very good. Injuries also play a big role.

Every team in the AFC East improved this off season except the Pats* who were weakened with the loss of Revis & Wilfork.

Hopefully it is a dogfight this year in the division with the Pats* losing as many games as they win in the division this year.

[Ed]

I don't agree at all that Cassel is better than or even equal to Kyle Orton. I think they are similar, but Orton has been the better qb through out their careers and I had no interest in seeing Orton play qb for this team again.

I think it's a wasted season if Cassel is our starter. I'd rather sink or swim with EJ and see how he progresses.

[BuffaloRedleg]

A given? No. My opinion that it's highly likely? Yes. We've seen this defense before, with (mostly) these players. It wasn't nearly as pretty as it was last season.

I'm confident that they could not scheme at all and just tell everyone to go run around and play hard and they'd still be decent.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You are assuming that the defense will be able to at least replicate their performance from last season, and with the switch I'm not real confident in that happening.

.

Why wouldn't you? They ran this exact defense with essentially the same players 2 years ago and it was great.

[Historian]

On par with the fish? Maybe.

On par with the Jets? Sorry, not even close.

[swiper]

Some good points Op.

But Incognito is a Bill that has happened & is an improvement to the OL where it was needed most.

The Bills have a better OL Coach this year than last year, that has already happened as well.

And it is a well know fact that players improve between their rookie year & 2nd year especially with good coaching.

The Bills have some OL players that were rookies last year that should be better this year.

I think the Bills will add another OL player or two, but even if they don't, the OL will be better this year than it was last year.

Well, if nothing else, they will have lots of bodies around for the o-line, RB, WR, QB.

Hopefully the cream rises to the top.

But, again, hope.

But at least there are bodies to bolster it.

[swiper]

I don't agree at all that Cassel is better than or even equal to Kyle Orton. I think they are similar, but Orton has been the better qb through out their careers and I had no interest in seeing Orton play qb for this team again.

I think it's a wasted season if Cassel is our starter. I'd rather sink or swim with EJ and see how he progresses.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/funny/1/throwing-up.gif

[cookie G]

I don't disagree that our current QB stable is not nearly up to par w/ the status quo teams like NE, Den, & GB. However, we have so much offensive talent, that I will argue that an average QB can be viable (not great or even good) in this offense. That is one thing that most point out. We and any successful team needs to have a QB that is a game changer, a guy that can outscore defenses. We don't have that. I don't dispute that at all!! What do we have?? A defense, that we know, can shut any QB down....

If we came into last season knowing Kyle Orton was our QB, we'd have all been despondent, and would not have believed that our team could've been a playoff contender. Truth be told, I would have factored into this sterotype.

Honestly ask yourself these 2 questions. If Orton would've started all 16 games last year, don't you think our team was good enough to make the playoffs??? We were 9-7, but IMHO, we would've won at least 1 game that EJ lost.

2nd question, don't you totally agree that with the weapons we know have on offense, plus Ignognito, and you can only assume another addition of the offensive line via the draft or FA, that Matt Cassell is an equal or an even better option than Kyle Orton?? I am a realistic Bills fan, and even I can answer both these questions with a resounding yes.

What say you??

Go Bills!! BTW, tank on Sabres!!!

Def. not a hater, maybe a pessimist...but all of this weaponry talk is giving me 2009 flashbacks.

In fact this whole offseason is eerily like 2009.

[Bill Cody]

I don't agree at all that Cassel is better than or even equal to Kyle Orton. I think they are similar, but Orton has been the better qb through out their careers and I had no interest in seeing Orton play qb for this team again.

I think it's a wasted season if Cassel is our starter. I'd rather sink or swim with EJ and see how he progresses.

EJ has to show improvement in camp. They track every single throw the QB's make in practice, break down film of every preseason snap. EJ is still green but he doesn't get a pass this year to come in and not be accurate. If he can't beat out Cassell in camp he sits. Unlike past years Buffalo fans have a team that can compete if they get adequate QB play. Hell Tie Rod could see snaps if the other 2 spit the bit.

[better days]

EJ has to show improvement in camp. They track every single throw the QB's make in practice, break down film of every preseason snap. EJ is still green but he doesn't get a pass this year to come in and not be accurate. If he can't beat out Cassell in camp he sits. Unlike past years Buffalo fans have a team that can compete if they get adequate QB play. Hell Tie Rod could see snaps if the other 2 spit the bit.

Rex has said it will be a full blown open competition for the starting QB job.

He said the Bills will use two practice fields in TC with the same thing going on in both fields.

The QB's will get the same amount of reps.

[YardRat]

I am assuming our defense can replicate our success. It's pretty easy for me to assume this as we are our front 7 is still in tact. We don't have Kiko, but we didn't have him last year either, and we did great. I also am confident that Rex Ryan can turn this defense into a consistent monster.

Good post btw...

That's where are opinions differ, I don't see the defense as intact. I see two great DE's (Mario and Hughes) being moved to LBer with additional reads and responsibilities. That's a downgrade to me. I see one great DT (Dareus) being a great DE. I see nobody at the other DE, like Carrington/Branch from 2013. Maybe, or should I say hopefully, Bryant/Charles/Wynn will be able to step up. I see a really good DT (KW) being put back at the nose, reducing him to average. I do think an inside tandem of Brown/Bradham can be better than Moats/Kiko, but losing Spikes is pretty big if he doesn't come back. I also see a loss at safety with Searcy in Tennessee. Again maybe, hopefully, Duke, Rambo, Meeks or Ladler can step up.

[YardRat]

Rat makes Rex sound like some mediocre coach instead of one of the very best in football.

I don't know what he is thinking either.

If he was great, his career record wouldn't be on a downward trend. Yes, I know you blame the GM for most of that, but objectively speaking on paper the Jets weren't that much different than Buffalo talent-wise, yet the Bills rolled NY two times and racked up more than twice as many wins under a moron.

[YardRat]

Why wouldn't you? They ran this exact defense with essentially the same players 2 years ago and it was great.

It wasn't great under Pettine, it was pretty good. It was dominant under Schwartz, and going from dominant to pretty good again isn't progress.

[swiper]

Ryan isn't a good head coach.

[jimmifli]

I've like the offseason.

But I don't like switching schemes on D, especially not forcing a scheme on players that don't match (remains to be seen if that happens).

I don't like the neglect of the O line, all though they did try to sign Bulaga. That at least shows they know they need help. On the plus side they didn't panic and sign a scrub for big money like last year. Hopefully we find a RT or G in the draft.

I like what they've done at QB and would be even happier if we draft another QB early and/or get Schaub to show up in camp.

Most of all, I really like the addition of Roman, I think he's the perfect OC for this team.

I expect them to win the division.

[swiper]

I've like the offseason.

But I don't like switching schemes on D, especially not forcing a scheme on players that don't match (remains to be seen if that happens).

I don't like the neglect of the O line, all though they did try to sign Bulaga. That at least shows they know they need help. On the plus side they didn't panic and sign a scrub for big money like last year. Hopefully we find a RT or G in the draft.

I like what they've done at QB and would be even happier if we draft another QB early and/or get Schaub to show up in camp.

Most of all, I really like the addition of Roman, I think he's the perfect OC for this team.

I expect them to win the division.

Dear jimmifli,

The big problem still remains. No franchise QB. It's the albatross in the room. Granted, they have attempted to upgrade in the face of Orton's abrupt departure - but that doesn't make it alright. They had better be at the front of the line the next time a franchise QB comes up available. Not a 34 year-old guy on his down-turn, but one they can have for 10 years.

[jimmifli]

Dear jimmifli,

The big problem still remains. No franchise QB. It's the albatross in the room. Granted, they have attempted to upgrade in the face of Orton's abrupt departure - but that doesn't make it alright. They had better be at the front of the line the next time a franchise QB comes up available. Not a 34 year-old guy on his down-turn, but one they can have for 10 years.

They've done what was possible.

I've posted this before, but look at Green Bay.
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/42669/packers-qbs-not-just-favre-rodgers


he Green Bay Packers (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/gb/green-bay-packers) have had arguably the most stable quarterback situation in the NFL over the last 20 years, seamlessly moving from one franchise quarterback (Brett Favre (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/112/brett-favre)) to another (Aaron Rodgers (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8439/aaron-rodgers)).

Most QBs Selected In Draft
Since 1993
<thead style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">

QB picks
Win pct

</thead><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">
Packers
11
.638


Ravens
10
.549


49ers
10
.533


Chargers
10
.510


Patriots
9
.651


Steelers
9
.637


Jets
9
.480


Redskins
9
.419

</tbody>



Yet since the advent of free agency in 1993 the Packers have taken more quarterbacks in the draft (11) than any team. What motivated the Packers to draft a quarterback nearly every year and what did that practice translate to in terms of on-field product?

Favre’s record-setting durability – he started every game for Green Bay from Week 4 in 1992 through the end of the 2007 season – would argue against needing to use those 11 draft picks on quarterbacks as insurance against an injury, but the Packers were able to cash in the value of the position in other ways: Three of those QBs were traded away for future draft picks, one became Favre’s successor as the franchise quarterback, and another played as a stable and effective backup.

It wasn’t a flawless plan. In fact, three of the first six quarterbacks drafted after Favre’s arrival – Jay Barker (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/7934/jay-barker) (1995, 5th round), Kyle Wachholtz (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/8123/kyle-wachholtz) (1996, 7th round) and Ron McAda (1997 7th round) – never played a down in the NFL.

But the other three – Mark Brunell (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/445/mark-brunell) (1993, 5th round), Matt Hasselbeck (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/1575/matt-hasselbeck) (1998, 6th round) andAaron Brooks (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/1884/aaron-brooks) (1999, 4th round) – were used in trades that brought the Packers three third-round picks, one first-round pick and one fifth-round pick.

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2012/0320/espn_g_flynn_200.jpg
<cite style="margin: 0px 0px 4px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; color: rgb(171, 171, 171); background: transparent;">Scott Boehm/Getty Images</cite>Matt Flynn’s Week 17 performance last year helped him land a free agent contract with Seattle this offseason.





Green Bay’s next three quarterbacks drafted showed mixed results. Craig Nall (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/3692/craig-nall) (2002, 5th round) and Ingle Martin (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/9734/ingle-martin) (2006, 5th round) attempted a combined total of 48 passes for the Packers and soon were out of the league.

But the next quarterback Green Bay selected, Aaron Rodgers (2005, 1st round) led the Packers to their latest Super Bowl championship (XLV).

In April 2008, months before Rodgers became Green Bay’s starter, the Packers selected two more quarterbacks – Brian Brohm (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11290/brian-brohm) in the second round andMatt Flynn (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/11443/matt-flynn) in the seventh.

Brohm was waived after that season and hooked on as a backup in Buffalo, but Flynn capped his seasons as Rodgers’ backup with six touchdown passes and nearly 500 passing yards against the Lions in Week 17 last season.

That performance made Flynn a hot commodity in the offseason and he signed a lucrative contract with theSeattle Seahawks (http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/sea/seattle-seahawks). The Packers will receive a compensatory pick in next year’s draft because of Flynn’s exit.












The article doesn't even mention that they had Kurt Warner in camp before he was cut and picked up in StLouis.

If you look at what Seattle did leading up to Wilson, it looks pretty similar. Sign a bunch of guys and keep drafting them until you hit one. If you can, trade a few for late round picks if you are sure they'll never be franchise guys.

[better days]

And Favre was not even drafted by the Packers, they got him in a trade with the Falcons who drafted him.

I still have like 4 Favre rookie cards in a Falcons uniform.

[mightysimi]

Looking back, Brady ran a screen/dump off game to at least a couple of SB wins. Not saying Cassel is Brady but if he has good short yardage accuracy, I think he can do the same.

[sudzy]

I got the coach I wanted and a good OC. Ryan will have this defense playing top 5. Added weapons on offense. I would have like to see them sign a top OG. At the very worst the will have Incognito and Urbik. And addition though subtraction with Marrone and Morris gone. If Cassel can give you jut a little more then Orton and the Bills stay healthy, I'm hopeful the Bills will be a playoff team.

[YardRat]

4 of the 8 teams mentioned in the article have 'franchise' QB's, the others have struck out. Being generous to SD and including Manning and Brees, that's 7 QB's out of 77 picks, for one fourth of the league's teams, over two generations of football careers.

1-That should be a pretty good indication to everybody how difficult it is to find 'the' guy.
2-Although it may not sound like it, I agree with the premise...keep getting one every year, every other year, until you finally hit...as long as it isn't consistently chewing up first and second rounders in vain, by-passing other talent on the board.

[swiper]

4 of the 8 teams mentioned in the article have 'franchise' QB's, the others have struck out. Being generous to SD and including Manning and Brees, that's 7 QB's out of 77 picks, for one fourth of the league's teams, over two generations of football careers.

1-That should be a pretty good indication to everybody how difficult it is to find 'the' guy.
2-Although it may not sound like it, I agree with the premise...keep getting one every year, every other year, until you finally hit...as long as it isn't consistently chewing up first and second rounders in vain, by-passing other talent on the board.

The Bills one best attempt to get a franchise guy was getting Bledsoe. You all remember how that worked out. It makes one envious of how the Packers have gone about their business over the years.

[YardRat]

I'll give the Packers credit for trading for Favre and drafting Rodgers, but really everything else post-Starr has been pretty 'meh' except a very brief stint with Majkowski.

[better days]

I'll give the Packers credit for trading for Favre and drafting Rodgers, but really everything else post-Starr has been pretty 'meh' except a very brief stint with Majkowski.

The Magic man, from Depew NY.

Too bad he got injured, he might have been a good QB.

[swiper]

They've done what was possible.



I disagree with you there. They waited until the fans screamed for them to get rid of Fitz, then they panicked and started to "do" stuff out of desperation. As you pointed out, you cannot nail down the QB position the way the Bills tried to. You have to draft QBs along the way. That Buddy Nix pick of TJ Graham sits squarely in my craw. Then we can go back to the Tom Donahoe reach for JP Losman (giving up the chance to have Aaron Rodgers). Then Whaley not taking Derek Carr. Etc, etc, etc.

[jimmifli]

4 of the 8 teams mentioned in the article have 'franchise' QB's, the others have struck out. Being generous to SD and including Manning and Brees, that's 7 QB's out of 77 picks, for one fourth of the league's teams, over two generations of football careers.

1-That should be a pretty good indication to everybody how difficult it is to find 'the' guy.
2-Although it may not sound like it, I agree with the premise...keep getting one every year, every other year, until you finally hit...as long as it isn't consistently chewing up first and second rounders in vain, by-passing other talent on the board.
That's really the point. The guys that are the best at finding "franchise QBs" have a pretty ****ty batting average. The Bills' GMs have never been regarded as QB gurus so it's easy to assume an even worse batting average. So what do we do after we strike out? Stay on the bench and skip at bats for 3 years hoping our last strike out gets ruled a homerun.

The guys that are the best, just keep taking more shots. They trade, sign and draft QBs until they find a good one.

So if I'm judging this off season based on QB... we traded for a guy that has been successful, we signed a guy that Baltimore fans regard pretty highly, and hopefully we draft one too. That will give us 4 guys with an honest shot at being a good QB. Then we do it all again next year.

[SpikedLemonade]

I like what the team has done this off-season.

My biggest concern remains the OL. The OL's poor performance has the potential to nullify many of the good moves the Bills have made this off-season thus far.

I hold out hope that they sign Wiz for $5M/yr and draft an OL in the 2nd round.

It would be wise to draft DL in the 3rd round that fits the 3-4 -- either a true NT or a big 3-4 DE.

[jimmifli]

I disagree with you there. They waited until the fans screamed for them to get rid of Fitz, then they panicked and started to "do" stuff out of desperation. As you pointed out, you cannot nail down the QB position the way the Bills tried to. You have to draft QBs along the way. That Buddy Nix pick of TJ Graham sits squarely in my craw. Then we can go back to the Tom Donahoe reach for JP Losman (giving up the chance to have Aaron Rodgers). Then Whaley not taking Derek Carr. Etc, etc, etc.
I meant this offseason.

They've massively neglected the position for over a decade.

[swiper]

I like what the team has done this off-season.

My biggest concern remains the OL. The OL's poor performance has the potential to nullify many of the good moves the Bills have made this off-season thus far.

I hold out hope that they sign Wiz for $5M/yr and draft an OL in the 2nd round.

It would be wise to draft DL in the 3rd round that fits the 3-4 -- either a true NT or a big 3-4 DE.

So you don't like the addition of Incognito and Clay?

[SpikedLemonade]

So you don't like the addition of Incognito and Clay?

Clay is fine. Good move. I doubt he lines up as an in-line TE for the majority of the Offensive snaps.

Incognito is no longer a starting NFL lineman.

[better days]

Incognito is no longer a starting NFL lineman.

Rex does not agree with you.

In fact he thinks Incognito will make an impact on the OL.

[SpikedLemonade]

Rex does not agree with you.

In fact he thinks Incognito will make an impact on the OL.

In all due respect, WTF does Rex know about the OL or the O for that matter?

I understand why the Bills signed Incognito since there was very little downside for him to be a back up, but 32 teams including the Bills did not think he belonged on a NFL roster last year.

He was suspended the year before last year (2013) and was available to any team last year (2014).

You understand that right?

I know that at your age the years can become confusing.

[better days]

In all due respect, WTF does Rex know about the OL or the O for that matter?

I understand why the Bills signed Incognito since there was very little downside for him to be a back up, but 32 teams including the Bills did not think he belonged on a NFL roster last year.

He was suspended the year before last year (2013) and was available to any team last year (2014).

You understand that right?

I know that at your age the years can become confusing.

With all due respect, I KNOW Rex KNOWS MUCH MORE about the Offense than you will ever know.

[SpikedLemonade]

With all due respect, I KNOW Rex KNOWS MUCH MORE about the Offense than you will ever know.

Such a homer.

What about the 32 teams that did not think he could play last year?

[HHURRICANE]

Such a homer.

What about the 32 teams that did not think he could play last year?

That wasn't about his play and you know it. I'm sure the league owners gave him a time out because no one was sticking a racist on their team. He needed a year to prove he learned his lesson.

[better days]

Such a homer.

What about the 32 teams that did not think he could play last year?

LMAO at you, thinking you know more than Rex Ryan. TOO FUNNY.

[YardRat]

I thought I knew more than Tom Donahoe, Russ Brandon the GM, and Marv Levy the GM.

Oh...wait a minute...I did.

[better days]

I thought I knew more than Tom Donahoe, Russ Brandon the GM, and Marv Levy the GM.

Oh...wait a minute...I did.

You did?

You know more than Rex as well?

[YardRat]

You did?

You know more than Rex as well?

We're going to find out this season :D