The Starting 3 Defensive Linemen For The Bills Will Be Who?

[BillsImpossible]

Are the Bills missing a player on defense?

If Rex Ryan plans on moving Mario Williams back to linebacker, the Bills might have a hole on their defensive line to fill.

Who will be the starting 3 defensive linemen in the Bills 3-4?

Marcell Dareus, Kyle Williams, and ?

Jarius Wynn?

Jeremy Towns?

Bryan Johnson?

Stefan Charles?

Corbin Byrant?

Starting 4 Linebackers:

Nigel Bradham, Preston Brown, Mario Williams, Jerry Hughes

Manny Lawson is listed as a defensive end, but at 6'5 240 lbs he's not a DE in a 3-4.

Mario Williams recently said he's looking forward to moving back to linebacker in the Bills new system.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000462634/article/mario-williams-excited-to-move-back-to-linebacker

Wouldn't it be better to play Mario at DE instead of moving him back to linebacker?

Mario Williams had 14.5 sacks last year at DE, why mess with success?

Williams, Dareus, Williams

Bradham, Brown, Lawson, Hughes

or

?, Dareus, Williams

Bradham, Brown, Hughes, Williams

[better days]

I think the bigger question is who starts the 4 games of Dareus's suspension if that happens?

[YardRat]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/228702-Who-are-the-starting-front-seven-on-D-as-of-today

[BillsImpossible]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/228702-Who-are-the-starting-front-seven-on-D-as-of-today

Similar, but I'm asking who's the third defensive lineman specifically.

Kyle Williams and Marcell Dareus are sure starters, who's the third down lineman?

[BillsImpossible]

I think the bigger question is who starts the 4 games of Dareus's suspension if that happens?

That's a very good question.

Can Dareus be replaced in the 2nd round? No way.

Are the Bills going to draft a defensive lineman, or are they happy with Charles, Bryant, or Wynn?

Who's the 3rd man?

[BillsImpossible]

I think the 3rd D-lineman is going to be Stefan Charles, who might be the most underrated player on the Buffalo Bills roster.

Charles is not a true NT because he's too damn tall at 6'5.

Marcell Dareus is 6'3, 330 lbs. Low center of gravity with a big butt and thighs thicker than a tree stump as Buddy Nix would say.

Stefan Charles is 6'5 and 323 lbs with a nose for the kill.

The, "Bruce Smith," of Canada.

I would not want to go up against this guy in 2015.

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/bTHHW3S8Ic5c0WCZMTbL0w--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2ZpPWZpbGw7aD0yODA7cHhvZmY9MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9OTU7dz01MDI-/http://d4.yimg.com/sr/img/1/079c3943-6cf9-317a-98e7-dcc8f52a06ae

[YardRat]

He's probably the most likely candidate at the moment, hope he can fill the shoes of Carrington/Branch. Really don't like KW manning the nose again though.

[BillsImpossible]

He's probably the most likely candidate at the moment, hope he can fill the shoes of Carrington/Branch. Really don't like KW manning the nose again though.

Dareus will be the nose in the 3-4. Kyle Williams will likely play at right defensive end.

Stefan Charles at DE?

Do it.

[YardRat]

Dareus will be the nose in the 3-4. Kyle Williams will likely play at right defensive end.

Stefan Charles at DE?

Do it.

If he is---A)It will be a switch from how Pettine lined them up, and B)It will be yet another player plugged in out of position.

[DraftBoy]

If he is---A)It will be a switch from how Pettine lined them up, and B)It will be yet another player plugged in out of position.

Not exactly true on B, Dareus played some NT while at Alabama. Not sure how your quantifying "out of position".

[SpikedLemonade]

Not exactly true on B, Dareus played some NT while at Alabama. Not sure how your quantifying "out of position".

It would be a waste of Dareus' talent to use him as a NT.

Let's draft one in the 3rd round.

[YardRat]

Not exactly true on B, Dareus played some NT while at Alabama. Not sure how your quantifying "out of position".

In the same manner as moving Mario and Hughes back to OLB is "out of position". Can all three play at the suggested positions? Sure. Does it put any of them in a situation that maximizes their strengths, minimizes their weaknesses, and give the team the best chance to succeed? IMO, not at all. KW played NT under Pettine, but he was "out of position" also. This switch-back is the ultimate game of cramming square pegs in round holes all along the front seven.

[elltrain22]

I think the 3rd D-lineman is going to be Stefan Charles, who might be the most underrated player on the Buffalo Bills roster.

Charles is not a true NT because he's too damn tall at 6'5.

Marcell Dareus is 6'3, 330 lbs. Low center of gravity with a big butt and thighs thicker than a tree stump as Buddy Nix would say.

Stefan Charles is 6'5 and 323 lbs with a nose for the kill.

The, "Bruce Smith," of Canada.

I would not want to go up against this guy in 2015.

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/bTHHW3S8Ic5c0WCZMTbL0w--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2ZpPWZpbGw7aD0yODA7cHhvZmY9MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9OTU7dz01MDI-/http://d4.yimg.com/sr/img/1/079c3943-6cf9-317a-98e7-dcc8f52a06ae

Great post, and I agree with you 110%

[BertSquirtgum]

Will one of the admins limit this ****ing guy to one thread a day? He's worse than skooby. Or maybe it is skooby's other name? Either way. Holy ****.

[SpikedLemonade]

Skooby is over in the Sabres Forum making drunk ass threads.

It could be Skooby.

I once saw Skooby start the same thread on 3 different message boards within 30 minutes.

[BertSquirtgum]

Skooby is over in the Sabres Forum making drunk ass threads.

It could be Skooby.

I once saw Skooby start the same thread on 3 different message boards within 30 minutes.

That's a daily occurrence.

[DraftBoy]

It would be a waste of Dareus' talent to use him as a NT.

Let's draft one in the 3rd round.

Depends on what the scheme calls for as the NT. If he's being asked to collapse the pocket up the middle then its a perfect fit, if he's being asked to simply eat up blockers and maintain his ground then it is a waste. Rex has run 34 schemes with both types of NT's before.

[DraftBoy]

In the same manner as moving Mario and Hughes back to OLB is "out of position". Can all three play at the suggested positions? Sure. Does it put any of them in a situation that maximizes their strengths, minimizes their weaknesses, and give the team the best chance to succeed? IMO, not at all. KW played NT under Pettine, but he was "out of position" also. This switch-back is the ultimate game of cramming square pegs in round holes all along the front seven.

You're jumping to conclusions before we've seen anything. If there is one thing you have to give Ryan credit for it's his ability to change the role/responsibility of the position within the scheme by changing up alignment, blitz schemes, coverage, etc. He's going to stay true to a 34 base but that doesn't just mean that the OLB's will always be standing up with their hands off the ground, or that the interior 3 down lineman will always just be there to eat up blockers. We need to see the defense in action before we can assume must of what you're concluding.

And for all the people who hated the idea of Kyle Williams at the NT, and I was one of them, he produced there. In that scheme (which is a version of what Ryan has run) the NT was not asked to just eat up blockers, but to get off blocks and make plays. It's very versatile by position.

[YardRat]

You're jumping to conclusions before we've seen anything. If there is one thing you have to give Ryan credit for it's his ability to change the role/responsibility of the position within the scheme by changing up alignment, blitz schemes, coverage, etc. He's going to stay true to a 34 base but that doesn't just mean that the OLB's will always be standing up with their hands off the ground, or that the interior 3 down lineman will always just be there to eat up blockers. We need to see the defense in action before we can assume must of what you're concluding.

There is no assumption, it's on record what Pettine did in 2013, and what Ryan has done over the past six seasons. Every defense is predicated on the changes you've outlined, that's pretty much part of the job. I understand there will be times when Mario or Hughes or Lawson will have their hand on the ground, that doesn't mean they will play the same role they did in '14. Again, we've seen the defense in action, and we've seen it with this roster.


And for all the people who hated the idea of Kyle Williams at the NT, and I was one of them, he produced there. In that scheme (which is a version of what Ryan has run) the NT was not asked to just eat up blockers, but to get off blocks and make plays. It's very versatile by position.

That was one of the issues with KW at NT, he got off blocks by ducking and guessing...shooting gaps...essentially opening up the first hole for the running back. This defense requires a stout, strong body that can engage, get off and make plays, or tie up multiple blockers by eating space. He may have produced against the pass, but when you are 28th in the league in rush yards against, nobody is producing at a level that should be expected.

[DraftBoy]

There is no assumption, it's on record what Pettine did in 2013, and what Ryan has done over the past six seasons. Every defense is predicated on the changes you've outlined, that's pretty much part of the job. I understand there will be times when Mario or Hughes or Lawson will have their hand on the ground, that doesn't mean they will play the same role they did in '14. Again, we've seen the defense in action, and we've seen it with this roster.

And Rex Ryan has been running a defense a lot long than six seasons. Nobody said they would have the same role, but you're assuming negative consequences of that different role.


That was one of the issues with KW at NT, he got off blocks by ducking and guessing...shooting gaps...essentially opening up the first hole for the running back. This defense requires a stout, strong body that can engage, get off and make plays, or tie up multiple blockers by eating space. He may have produced against the pass, but when you are 28th in the league in rush yards against, nobody is producing at a level that should be expected.

Not necessarily. What you're leaving out about the issue with Pettine's D was the lack of a ILB who attacked the LOS and filled the opened hole by KW penetration. Preston Brown showed some ability to do that last year and Bradham showed improvement from 13 to 14 doing that. The defense can work with an attacking NT as long as the ILB's/SS are aggressive in attacking the LOS to fill the hole created by the NT. Pettine didn't have that and the D got smoked by running attacks because of it.

[better days]

There is no assumption, it's on record what Pettine did in 2013, and what Ryan has done over the past six seasons. Every defense is predicated on the changes you've outlined, that's pretty much part of the job. I understand there will be times when Mario or Hughes or Lawson will have their hand on the ground, that doesn't mean they will play the same role they did in '14. Again, we've seen the defense in action, and we've seen it with this roster.



That was one of the issues with KW at NT, he got off blocks by ducking and guessing...shooting gaps...essentially opening up the first hole for the running back. This defense requires a stout, strong body that can engage, get off and make plays, or tie up multiple blockers by eating space. He may have produced against the pass, but when you are 28th in the league in rush yards against, nobody is producing at a level that should be expected.

Rat, in the first place, Kyle Williams is stout & STRONG. Both Ryan & Belicheck have said he is a beast.

In the 2nd place, the LB's are responsible in great part for stopping the run in both the 3-4 & 4-3.

That was the biggest difference between last year & the year before.

Spikes stopping the run vs Kiko stopping the run.

[YardRat]

And Rex Ryan has been running a defense a lot long than six seasons. Nobody said they would have the same role, but you're assuming negative consequences of that different role.

And he has never run anything like what we had last season, which an almost perfect marriage of personnel and scheme. Rex has had some pretty good defenses over the years, but his better ones also had more appropriate players to plug in.




Not necessarily. What you're leaving out about the issue with Pettine's D was the lack of a ILB who attacked the LOS and filled the opened hole by KW penetration. Preston Brown showed some ability to do that last year and Bradham showed improvement from 13 to 14 doing that. The defense can work with an attacking NT as long as the ILB's/SS are aggressive in attacking the LOS to fill the hole created by the NT. Pettine didn't have that and the D got smoked by running attacks because of it.

Granted, Kiko was not a fit in the same vein that KW wasn't a fit and exacerbated the issue, and I agree that Brown and/or Bradham could be an upgrade. Having Byrd out of there could be addition by subtraction, also, with AW and the potential for somebody else like Duke to step up. Although the middle could theoretically be stouter under Ryan as opposed to Pettine from the second level back, it still emphasizes a weakness of KW on the line, and doesn't account for others on the front seven being plugged in out of position, like Mario and Hughes. Hell, Hughes didn't even crack the starting line-up under Pettine because Lawson was a better fit, I sure as hell hope we didn't just pay Jerry that boat-load of money to come off the bench again.

[YardRat]

Rat, in the first place, Kyle Williams is stout & STRONG. Both Ryan & Belicheck have said he is a beast.

In the 2nd place, the LB's are responsible in great part for stopping the run in both the 3-4 & 4-3.

That was the biggest difference between last year & the year before.

Spikes stopping the run vs Kiko stopping the run.

He's not stout enough or strong enough to play a shaded NT, and it wasn't just the simple replacement of Kiko by Spikes that made this defense better against the run.

[DraftBoy]

And he has never run anything like what we had last season, which an almost perfect marriage of personnel and scheme. Rex has had some pretty good defenses over the years, but his better ones also had more appropriate players to plug in.

And? That was last year, everybody knew they weren't going to to be like last year. Agree or Disagree with the decision it was made. Comparing it endlessly is pointless.



Granted, Kiko was not a fit in the same vein that KW wasn't a fit and exacerbated the issue, and I agree that Brown and/or Bradham could be an upgrade. Having Byrd out of there could be addition by subtraction, also, with AW and the potential for somebody else like Duke to step up. Although the middle could theoretically be stouter under Ryan as opposed to Pettine from the second level back, it still emphasizes a weakness of KW on the line, and doesn't account for others on the front seven being plugged in out of position, like Mario and Hughes. Hell, Hughes didn't even crack the starting line-up under Pettine because Lawson was a better fit, I sure as hell hope we didn't just pay Jerry that boat-load of money to come off the bench again.

You're going to have a hard time arguing KW was a weakness along the DL when he was productive and you don't know what his responsibility was. He wasn't asked to be a 2 gap NT under Pettine so to say he was (or maybe) a weakness is a large assumption. If Ryan wants a two gap NT he's going to use Darues or Charles as opposed to Williams. If he wants a 1 gap NT it will be Williams.

You and me both about Hughes, I have lots of questions about giving him that kind of a contract to play in a system he struggled in at Indy. It will be up to Ryan to specialize his role to make it work.