The Reporters: Can the NHL prevent teams from tanking?

[SpikedLemonade]

http://www.tsn.ca/video/the-reporters-can-the-nhl-prevent-teams-from-tanking-1.243124

[DetDannyWilliams]

keep digging for useless articles Spiked :rolleyes: :laughing:

[SpikedLemonade]

Not an article. A weekly sports show on TSN.

But I should not argue with an expert on uselessness -- a Sabres fan.

[mightysimi]

I think using the lottery to pick the top 3 teams would go a long way.

[casdhf]

If you want to prevent this, have the teams be able to lose more than one spot.

[mightysimi]

If you want to prevent this, have the teams be able to lose more than one spot.

That's what I'm saying. If you could go from 1st to 4th? That would inhibit some of it I think. Not all because some teams picking 4th is still better than picking 10th by trying.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=728795

2016 NHL Draft Lottery
Beginning in 2016, the Draft Lottery will be utilized to assign the top three drafting slots in the NHL Draft, an expansion over previous years when the Draft Lottery was used to determine the winner of the first overall selection only.
Three draws will be held: the 1st Lottery draw will determine the Club selecting first overall, the 2nd Lottery draw will determine the Club selecting second overall and the 3rd Lottery draw will determine the club selecting third overall.
As a result of this change, the team earning the fewest points during the regular season will no longer be guaranteed, at worst, the second overall pick. That club could fall as low as fourth overall.
The allocation of odds for the 1st Lottery draw will be the same as outlined above for the 2015 NHL Draft Lottery. The odds for the remaining teams will increase on a proportionate basis for the 2nd Lottery draw, based on which Club wins the 1st Lottery draw, and again for the 3rd Lottery draw, based on which Club wins the 2nd Lottery draw.
The 11 Clubs not selected in the Draft Lottery will be assigned NHL Draft selections 4 through 14, in inverse order of regular-season points.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

There are a number of ways. You could lottery multiple picks like the NBA (though that's not foolproof as we see in Philadelphia), or you could delay the draft reward by a year or more. If you are bad in 2015, you get the first pick in 2017 for example.

Or you could recognize that sports with small teams swing wildly on the presence of superstar players, and realize that some teams are naturally going to chase that advantage.

[DraftBoy]

There are a number of ways. You could lottery multiple picks like the NBA (though that's not foolproof as we see in Philadelphia), or you could delay the draft reward by a year or more. If you are bad in 2015, you get the first pick in 2017 for example.

Or you could recognize that sports with small teams swing wildly on the presence of superstar players, and realize that some teams are naturally going to chase that advantage.

The Philly tank is just weird. There isn't a clear cut option at #1 that makes sense for them since both top NBA propsects (Jabari Parker and Karl Anthony-Towns) are center options and they have Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid. Now unless Embiid's foot issue is much more severe than it was originally reported I'd expect Philly to trade the pick. It seems like Hinkie (76ers GM) knew his team was bad and just said F it and is going to get as much young talent as he can regardless of position. If the Lakers pick he got for trading Micheal Carter-Wiliams as the deadline works out the 76ers could have the #1 and #6 overall picks in the 1st round. Too bad the draft is just meh per NBA Draft people.

[trapezeus]

rules are always going to be gamed, and regulations and new rules will come in to try to stop old behaviors. guess what happens then, the new rules will be gamed. it's almost impossible to remove this mentality.

this is a unique year with 2 very good prospects. specifically in the NHL where so few are expected to make an impact immediately.

i doubt any team does it next year. but when the next crop of can't miss propects shows it self, i'm sure some team or teams will figure a way to improve their odds at getting that player.

[coastal]

is tanking any different than a team like the Patriots running some ****ed up formation in order to gain an edge?

because as it stands... they are breaking no rules. none.

[SpikedLemonade]

I think using the lottery to pick the top 3 teams would go a long way.

Next year that's the plan.

Murray's whining prevented it from happening this year.

[SpikedLemonade]

is tanking any different than a team like the Patriots running some ****ed up formation in order to gain an edge?

because as it stands... they are breaking no rules. none.


Isn't it sad that there needs to be a rule that you must try to win a game?

[coastal]

Isn't it sad that there needs to be a rule that you must try to win a game?
They are trying to win... the Cup... in the future and think this is the best way to do that.

[SpikedLemonade]

Best comment I read from the HF Boards Sabre Section from a Sabre fan this morning....

If we don't finish 30th it really is karma. Let's be honest we've been more open about finishing 30th then any team in a long long time.

[Dude]

What Bruins message boards do you post on, Spiked?

[SpikedLemonade]

What Bruins message boards do you post on, Spiked?


HF

[Dude]

So no fan sites then. You go out of your way to post on a Sabres fan site frequently, but can't be bothered to post on a fan site for your own team.

That's messed up. I've never posted on a fan site for a team that I'm not even a fan of, especially not as much as you do here.

[Skooby]

So no fan sites then. You go out of your way to post on a Sabres fan site frequently, but can't be bothered to post on a fan site for your own team.

That's messed up. I've never posted on a fan site for a team that I'm not even a fan of, especially not as much as you do here.

No one in their right mind would.

[SpikedLemonade]

So no fan sites then. You go out of your way to post on a Sabres fan site frequently, but can't be bothered to post on a fan site for your own team.

That's messed up. I've never posted on a fan site for a team that I'm not even a fan of, especially not as much as you do here.

I told you HF ==> http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15

Clearly, you are a better fan and person than I am.

Then again I have never rooted for my Bruins to lose a game.

[Dude]

I've never rooted for the Sabres to lose, not sure where you're getting your information from. Management's decision on the direction of the team is what it is, and how I cheer, or how much I complain will do absolutely nothing to change that.

I've also never posted on a fan site for a different team, especially not with the frequency that you do here. HF is not a fan site (i.e. specific to one team and/or run by fans) - it's a general site for all teams. This is a Buffalo site.

I'm not saying I'm a better person or fan, but clearly you have issues as evidence by your obsession with a team for which you don't support.

You continue to rail on the team and the fans as if a) we care, b) it makes a difference. If you dedicated to the Bruins a small fraction of the time and energy you commit to the Buffalo Sabres, you would be considered a superfan.

I've asked you before and you don't seem to want to answer, but what exactly is it that you are trying to accomplish by spamming and trolling our site?

[trapezeus]

spiked is like a dog that fixates on something and barks and barks and barks no matter how hard the leash is tugged. in the words of ceasar milan, he's a red zone case.

He largely doesn't understand PROFESSIONAL Sports. he thinks its a beer league where people go to just compete every other day and see where they are. It is about winning only. To spiked, there is no chance that it's a business where people put out long term plans. There is no world in which team executives look at their previous attempt to win with vanek, pomiville, stafford, roy as the core offense, use a top 5 goalie in miller, supplement them with expensive FA, and max out on the cap as a sign that they got the mix wrong and it simply didn't work. IN his video game world, you can start over without trades, without draft picks and without a cap. because that is true in his world. in pro sports, it's not, but spiked has conveniently left this out.

He doesn't like the idea of executives trying tolearn from that mistake and say, "teams in the west win cups, and they hvae a talented line 1 and line 1B, and goalies don't matter as much if the d is good. Those executives can't build a pretty solid d that while young, shows a ton of promise. those executives are actually morons to straighten the cap so that once the prospects come up, there is plenty of money to maintain the guys who show you the ability you wanted.

all of this is unbelievable to a guy like spike, because he simply likes the simpleton explanation of "tanking is bad" because that's all he can grasp.

[Ginger Vitis]

Spike trolls HF but I doubt he has a registered account there that he posts with.. He trolls that site obsessed with what Sabres fans are saying. There nothing in life is more important to him right now than the sabres not finishing 30th

[Ginger Vitis]

Then again I have never rooted for my Bruins to lose a game.

That is a lie.. You were extremely happy when the Bruins lost to the Sabres 2 weeks ago

[SpikedLemonade]

That is a lie.. You were extremely happy when the Bruins lost to the Sabres 2 weeks ago

I was never rooting for the Bruins to lose, but once they lost in OT, I was able to rationalize the result by the silver lining that the Sabres got 2 points.

[trapezeus]

I was never rooting for the Bruins to lose, but once they lost in OT, I was able to rationalize the result by the silver lining that the Sabres got 2 points.

is this a joke? that is literally what most sabres fans have been saying to you. we can rationalize the reason for the losing. it's not the team not trying. it's that they've been left woefully undertalented and anytimes they've shown promise, injuries, trades and call ups have occured. and that is managerially making it hard to win, but is getitng lots of depth NHL time outside their comfortzone. when you slot them into positions they should be at, you'll have stronger players.

but the sabres are tanking and the bills are definitely moving. The world of Spiked.

[SpikedLemonade]

...but the sabres are tanking...

So are you saying that the Sabres did not intentionally manage this team to lose games last year and this year?

I just want to know what level of mental illness I am dealing with here.

[coastal]

This is a full on tank!

manufactured.

engineered.

without shame.

from the top down... it's all about the tank.

one problem... Nolan and the players are prideful and could give a rats ass about Eichel or McDavid.

[SpikedLemonade]

"You guys should watch the Leafs play us for the next game. If you really want to see a team truly tank just watch them. They just float around like management told them to stop trying. Arizona and Sabres keep losing because the best player we have on offense today is Matt Moulson and Shane Doan for Arizona."


I love some of the Sabre fans on the HF Boards.

Comedy gold!

[Dude]

You do realize this isn't the HF site, right?

[SpikedLemonade]

Sure do.

Tomorrow night will be much more fun here than on the Bruins portion of HF.

The Sabres portion of HF should be a blast as well.

[coastal]

I am so conflicted...

[Dude]

Can I get a show of hands from Sabres fans here that will be spending time posting on Bruins fan sites or the Bruins section on HF tonight? Or posting on any other team's site for that matter?

[Skooby]

Can I get a show of hands from Sabres fans here that will be spending time posting on Bruins fan sites or the Bruins section on HF tonight? Or posting on any other team's site for that matter?

Why would anyone sane from here go on another team's site ? Well, take away the sane part and ask it again.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I told you HF ==> http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15

Clearly, you are a better fan and person than I am.

Then again I have never rooted for my Bruins to lose a game.

You rooted for the Bills to lose for half a season to get Cam Newton.

Weak.

[trapezeus]

So are you saying that the Sabres did not intentionally manage this team to lose games last year and this year?

I just want to know what level of mental illness I am dealing with here.

they didn't do anything but manage the team to be in a better situation with the next rebuild.

they changed the GM, he has the right that most teams provide to transition the team from the previous regime's guy and get his own guys.


to legislate this one example isn't good for the NHL and the owners know it. if they did something like reverse seeding where the team that just missed the playoffs gets the top pick so that spiked and his "tanker" friends can be satisfied, you will get the following consequences.

1. the general parity of the isle getting better, the blackhawks becoming very good, the penguins coming up, even the panthers improving won't happen.

2. as a result, what are the worst teams going to do? they are going to spend money to get the fan base excited. but the superstars in their prime will never be available because teams who draft those players will sign them to long term contracts. so you'll get more mid level free agents getting ridiculous deals to go to the bottom feeders. This will cost the owners more money as the deal sizes get bigger, especially in good economic times when the cap keeps moving up. but it will screw them in down times when the cap doesn't move and they don't have money.

So for a league that has had 2 strikes in 10-15 years, perhaps making bidding wars for lieno type players isn't the path you want to travel down. you want all the teams to have a chance so that interest remains high from fans. Even in this downturn, sabres fans are into it. they are at the games. perhaps they aren't rooting for the same short term goals as spiked, but they want to know what's going to happen

in the other world, it will create a situation where the bottom 5 teams have no hope of ever getting good. and that means lower ticket sales, which means lower interest in general, which can hamper the TV deals, which is entirely the life blood of money the NHL and other sports leagues gets.

it seems to me that the owners would rather have the spikeds of the world be upset and actively engaged than having them quite and not caring about 25% to 30% of the league.

[Dr. Who]

Dude:

It's definitely a perverse minority that does that sort of thing.
I have never gone to the message boards of other teams.
The worst is the kind of person who comes over to gloat or to wish misfortune upon the team you are rooting for.
What kind of a person finds satisfaction in doing that sort of thing?
That's just vindictive and shows a level of immaturity that is unfortunately pretty common.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I told you HF ==> http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15

Clearly, you are a better fan and person than I am.

Then again I have never rooted for my Bruins to lose a game.

You currently look like an indignant 5 year old in full foot stomping, pouty face tantrum mode. We get it. It's not fair. Now go play cars in your room or something.

[trapezeus]

You currently look like an indignant 5 year old in full foot stomping, pouty face tantrum mode. We get it. It's not fair. Now go play cars in your room or something.

but why do we have to concede it's not fair? it's within the rules, its common in business, it's common in hockey to sell when the team you've amassed has failed to win. you tear it down.

Honestly, if the sabres pushed prospects up and signed free agents, we'd be in cap hell again in a year, we might have rushed prospects before their time, and we might still just be fighting for an 8 seed. just because this make the top 5 teams happy we follow a path that keeps us on the outside, isn't a good enough reason to not do it.

spiked's whole thing is that the sabres are just going to do this forever. which is clearly not the goal.

we've let prospects come up and down as their game requires, and we don't have expensive filler in the mean time. so it's a tough go. but the guys that excel from this are the guys you will sign to big contracts. they'll be worth it, and they'll be the one's you build around.

[SpikedLemonade]

"The combined sum of two historically awful seasons getting you Hanifin and Reinhart isn't ok to me. We have scored less than anyone in modern history for two straight years. And making it worse is that if they do blow it, it will be in the final week. 101 weeks of a pathetic hockey team, only to make a heroic run To 29th in week 102? It would be hilarious if it wasn't so frightening."

"Exactly^ It would probably be the cruelest outcome in Buffalo Sports history and there are a LOT of cruel moments.

Without McEichel this team is bottom 5 next year with no McEichel in the draft and a jacked up lottery format.

We would become Edmonton lite in the East. A slightly less terrible version of them but bad for a while until we become mediocre again like the team that was just dismantled."


Ha Ha Ha!!!!

[coastal]

This is a Buffalo sports horror story in the making

[SpikedLemonade]

This is a Buffalo sports horror story in the making

Makes for good drama.

[coastal]

Makes for good drama.
I mean you have a baked out, disinterested fan base in a desert vying for the basement with an empassioned, downtrodden, almost cursed, hockey-Mecca fanbase.

the hockey-Mecca GM whom many hold responsible for this crappy team is now the VP of the desert franchise.

And the hockey-Mecca fanbase has a smarmy little GM in his place who summarily ran out of town one of the regions most beloved hockey heroes.

what makes it so horrifying is you can almost taste and smell the karma coming.

[SpikedLemonade]

"Murray has swagger."

[coastal]

"Murray has swagger."
Hes built quite the culture.

[SpikedLemonade]

Rex Ryan craps bigger than Murray.

[Ginger Vitis]

Jeremy White (WGR550) proposed that the best team in the NHL to NOT make the playoffs should get the 1st overall pick.. Under that System whoever finishes last would pick 14th... If that System was in place the last 10 years the Sabres would have picked 2nd overall 3 times since 2004.. They would have ended up with Evgeni Malkin...Drew Doughty.. Victor Hedman