Will The Bills Build A New Stadium Before or After 2020?

[BillsImpossible]

The Bills signed a new 10-year lease agreement with Erie County in December of 2012.

8 years to go on the lease deal.

2020 is a key year because it's 2 years before the lease expires, and it takes about 2 years to build a new NFL stadium.

I was wondering if anyone knows if the Bills are locked in to this agreement?

The Bills signed a 10-year lease contract with Erie County and NYS, BUT the NFL owners had to approve the deal first.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-lease-agreement-approved-by-NFL-owners/95734442-975b-4de1-b463-48c0a6a2c0c2

If I read the article correctly, it suggests that the lease agreement was contingent upon the $130 million stadium renovation.

Does that mean the Bills are on the hook for the next 8 years?

Can the Bills break the lease without penalty? Lots of politics involved there I would bet.

The $130 million stadium renovation combined with a 10-year lease agreement is tied to a huge majority of taxpayer dollars.

The Bills will pay $35 million, the state $54 million and the county $41 million over the life of the agreement.

$95 million worth of taxpayer money? 73% of the renovation was paid for by taxpayers.

That's f'd up, but's that's life.

What's confusing is how you have Roger Goodell on one side saying the Bills need to build a new stadium now, and on the other side you have the Bills and league owners agreeing to a new 10-year lease deal.

Which is it?

Goodell hasn't been barking so loud about a new stadium ever since the Pegulas purchased the team.

Are the Bills married to RWS for at least the next 8 seasons?

[BillsOwnAll]

How can one make so many threads about nonsense so consiesntaly lol.

[BillsImpossible]

How can one make so many threads about nonsense so consiesntaly lol.

At least I'm consistent, so I'll ask the question in a much simpler way.

Can the Bills break their lease agreement with $95 million of taxpayer money on the line?

Simple question, just looking for a simple or even a complex answer.

The $95 million chunk of taxpayer cash used to pay for the renovations at RWS was NOT paid for in one lump sum by NYS and Erie County, the money is paid over the duration of the lease.

Are the Bills locked in to their lease agreement for the next 8 years?

[OpIv37]

It's not rocket surgery.

The Bills are locked into the lease for the first 8 years.

If there is no agreement with the county at that point, they can walk. It gives the team leverage if the county drags their feet and gives the county motivation to move (relatively) quickly on a new stadium. That's it. I don't see what's so unclear about it.

[BillsImpossible]

It's not rocket surgery.

The Bills are locked into the lease for the first 8 years.

I assume you mean the next 8 years, but to get right to the point, the Bills will not play in a new stadium until 2022 at the earliest.

When you say, 'leverage,' what do you mean? The Pegulas could threaten to move the team? I think that's out of the equation.

[OpIv37]

I assume you mean the next 8 years, but to get right to the point, the Bills will not play in a new stadium until 2022 at the earliest.

When you say, 'leverage,' what do you mean? The Pegulas could threaten to move the team? I think that's out of the equation.

The Pegulas didn't sign the lease- Ralph did. But they are still bound by it pending some sort of mutual renegotiation between them and the county.

And yes, the Pegulas could threaten to move the team. I don't think that will happen, because if the county/state don't cooperate, they will just find their own way to pay for a stadium. But again, the agreement was negotiated under cheap ass Ralph. In Ralph's defense, he could have moved the team but never did. But he also was never faced with the prospect of paying for his own stadium or moving. Let's face it- the stadium is on its last legs. Regardless of ownership or whether or not the team moves, they weren't going to be in the Ralph past 2022 (and honestly that's probably too late). Ralph negotiated an opportunity to pressure the county that Pegula probably doesn't need because Pegula is willing to pay for his own stadium and Ralph wasn't.

[Topas]

Why are you so sure that he is willing to pay for his own stadium? Did he say so?
He might have the money to do so. He might not want to do so.
He has a lot of money because he (or they) spend it wisely.

Not that I disagree. It would be great if they did so. But why are you so sure?

[Night Train]

Pegula is in no rush. Current ticket sales at the Ralph are fantastic and a full stadium will be the norm this year.

If it doesn't happen downtown, they'll build across from the Ralph in the parking lot on Abbott and turn the Ralph into a new parking lot.

[OpIv37]

Why are you so sure that he is willing to pay for his own stadium? Did he say so?
He might have the money to do so. He might not want to do so.
He has a lot of money because he (or they) spend it wisely.

Not that I disagree. It would be great if they did so. But why are you so sure?

Because the Pegulas are committed to Buffalo- the FNC rebuild, Harbor Center, etc. If he can't get a stadium deal done he'll either have to build one himself or move the team. And I just don't see Terry or Kim as willing to have blood on their hands for the team moving.

[trapezeus]

the reality is the NFL will always complain about stadiums. I mean they are getting atlanta to build a new stadium and they just did theirs in the 90's for the olympics. They just hit that button to get free money from states.

the 10Y lease is the reality of the situation. it takes time, not one of the 32 teams can just say, "we have new land for a building that can house between 60-100k people" without legal review, environmental review, traffic review, and the buildings who don't want to be next door to a new structure. that takes time. it happens in every city. in NYC there was a time that they wanted to build the new meadowlands in NYC. That eventually got squashed. but it took time, and then the plan was to build next to current stadium. That's 3 years to break ground and 2 to get the stadium ready.

i agree with op, no way the pegulas flip the bills. at least the way they've postured themselves in the media. they have the cash, and they are into developing downtown buffalo. they may pick up a large portion of the tab downtown with huge tax incentives instead of splitting the build costs and paying the actual taxes without adjustment.

the other wildcard is that the fans love OP, but most people know its got to move downtown to build on the pegula's vision. and there probably will be some sensitivity about the change downtown. it will change people's tailgating. TO me, i think it's insane. i love the bills. i don't love eating out of the back of my car. if they put the team downtown and i hvae to pregame at one of the bars or restaurants and it builds vibrancy downtown and for the community as a whole, i'm on board. but i know alot of people disagree with me on this one. and that's why its a wildcard item on how the team and state pitches it to the community.

[stuckincincy]

the reality is the NFL will always complain about stadiums. I mean they are getting atlanta to build a new stadium and they just did theirs in the 90's for the olympics. They just hit that button to get free money from states.

the 10Y lease is the reality of the situation. it takes time, not one of the 32 teams can just say, "we have new land for a building that can house between 60-100k people" without legal review, environmental review, traffic review, and the buildings who don't want to be next door to a new structure. that takes time. it happens in every city. in NYC there was a time that they wanted to build the new meadowlands in NYC. That eventually got squashed. but it took time, and then the plan was to build next to current stadium. That's 3 years to break ground and 2 to get the stadium ready.

i agree with op, no way the pegulas flip the bills. at least the way they've postured themselves in the media. they have the cash, and they are into developing downtown buffalo. they may pick up a large portion of the tab downtown with huge tax incentives instead of splitting the build costs and paying the actual taxes without adjustment.

the other wildcard is that the fans love OP, but most people know its got to move downtown to build on the pegula's vision. and there probably will be some sensitivity about the change downtown. it will change people's tailgating. TO me, i think it's insane. i love the bills. i don't love eating out of the back of my car. if they put the team downtown and i hvae to pregame at one of the bars or restaurants and it builds vibrancy downtown and for the community as a whole, i'm on board. but i know alot of people disagree with me on this one. and that's why its a wildcard item on how the team and state pitches it to the community.

Good post.

[OpIv37]

Here's the thig with the tailgating: it turned the games into events. Whether the team wins or loses, we know we are going to have a great time in the parking lot before and after the game. If we didn't have that, I'm not sure people keep going to the games and I'm not sure the team survives a 15 year playoff drought.

Now, that's not saying a downtown stadium is going to kill the team, but the team is going to need to replace the excitement of tailgating with something else (preferably a winning team). Ideally, with new management, prolonged periods of losing will be the past but we know that isn't guaranteed.

[BillsImpossible]

Here's the thig with the tailgating: it turned the games into events. Whether the team wins or loses, we know we are going to have a great time in the parking lot before and after the game. If we didn't have that, I'm not sure people keep going to the games and I'm not sure the team survives a 15 year playoff drought.

Now, that's not saying a downtown stadium is going to kill the team, but the team is going to need to replace the excitement of tailgating with something else (preferably a winning team). Ideally, with new management, prolonged periods of losing will be the past but we know that isn't guaranteed.

You hit the nails on the heads, OpIv37. It's all about the tailgate. Without it, the Bills wouldn't exist.

Ralph Wilson, Jr. made a very good decision to build the stadium in Orchard Park back in the early 1970's.

Through thick and thin, Bills fans have supported their team for over 4 decades because of 1 single overriding factor of a reason.

The tailgate parties. Even if the Bills lose, people still have a really good time before and after the game.

Take away that sense of tradition, take away that party atmosphere and what's left?

[BLeonard]

Most of your questions can probably be answered here: http://www2.erie.gov/exec/index.php?q=buffalo-bills-lease-terms-summary

I actually saved a pdf of the lease when it was first released and from what I can gather, here are short answers to your main questions:

1: The Bills have a one time option to terminate the agreement during the 7th year of the lease for a little over $28.25 million

2: Goodell is ALWAYS going to beat the "They need a new stadium" drum, because that very likely means more shared revenue, which increases the value of not only the Bills, but every other team in the league.

3: Sure, the Pegulas could threaten to move, but less than 1% chance that they would. They'd also be very limited to where they could move, due to owning the Sabres. NFL rules prohibit an owner from owning teams in other sports in competing markets.

Also part of the lease agreement is the formation of a New Stadium Advisory Group and Fund. As seen on the link provided:


New Stadium Advisory Group will be formed to explore potential for construction of new stadium at current site or at new site within Erie County. Beginning in 6th lease year, up to one half of the capital improvement fund can be used to conduct studies related to a new stadium location, design and development. Approximately $2,216,000 will be available in 2018, with a total of $11,796,000 at the end of the lease term.

In short, starting in year 6 of the lease, they could use up to 50% of the money designed to go for RWS improvements to work towards getting a new stadium built.

If you (or anyone else) wants to actually read the lease for themselves, it can be found here: http://www2.erie.gov/exec/sites/www2.erie.gov.exec/files/uploads/Stadium%20Lease%20Agreement123.pdf

-Bill

[jamze132]

The entire point of the lease was to ensure that a guy loyal to Buffalo bought the team. Mission accomplished. If Pegula decides to build a new stadium early, the penalty will be waived.

[better days]

the reality is the NFL will always complain about stadiums. I mean they are getting atlanta to build a new stadium and they just did theirs in the 90's for the olympics. They just hit that button to get free money from states.

the 10Y lease is the reality of the situation. it takes time, not one of the 32 teams can just say, "we have new land for a building that can house between 60-100k people" without legal review, environmental review, traffic review, and the buildings who don't want to be next door to a new structure. that takes time. it happens in every city. in NYC there was a time that they wanted to build the new meadowlands in NYC. That eventually got squashed. but it took time, and then the plan was to build next to current stadium. That's 3 years to break ground and 2 to get the stadium ready.

i agree with op, no way the pegulas flip the bills. at least the way they've postured themselves in the media. they have the cash, and they are into developing downtown buffalo. they may pick up a large portion of the tab downtown with huge tax incentives instead of splitting the build costs and paying the actual taxes without adjustment.

the other wildcard is that the fans love OP, but most people know its got to move downtown to build on the pegula's vision. and there probably will be some sensitivity about the change downtown. it will change people's tailgating. TO me, i think it's insane. i love the bills. i don't love eating out of the back of my car. if they put the team downtown and i hvae to pregame at one of the bars or restaurants and it builds vibrancy downtown and for the community as a whole, i'm on board. but i know alot of people disagree with me on this one. and that's why its a wildcard item on how the team and state pitches it to the community.

The thing is bars/resturants are not allowed to serve alcohol before 12 PM on Sunday.

That means you have 1 Hour to eat & drink & get from the bar/resturant to your seat in the stadium unless the law is changed.

[Bill Cody]

It's not rocket surgery.




No, but it could be rocket science. Or even brain surgery.

[sukie]

Will the bills build a new stadium after the new one by 2090?

[stuckincincy]

The thing is bars/resturants are not allowed to serve alcohol before 12 PM on Sunday.

That means you have 1 Hour to eat & drink & get from the bar/resturant to your seat in the stadium unless the law is changed.

Not a problem. Those junior to you and I have a constellation of drugs to choose from. Sadly.

[better days]

Not a problem. Those junior to you and I have a constellation of drugs to choose from. Sadly.

True, but I'm sure they still want to eat.

I should have said you have one hour to find a table, sit down.....wait for the waitress to arrive with a menu...wait for the waitress to put in your order...wait for the food & drinks to arrive,,,eat & drink...wait for the waitress to bring the bill.

Then make your way to the stadium & find your seat.

Pretty much IMPOSSIBLE unless the law is changed to go to a restaurant outside the stadium to eat & drink before a game.

Now Pegula could build some nice restaurants INSIDE the stadium which would work. Still, tailgating would be missed.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm not sure why people assume a downtown stadium means the end of tailgating. Denver plays smack in the middle of the city and still has a great tailgate culture.

[better days]

I'm not sure why people assume a downtown stadium means the end of tailgating. Denver plays smack in the middle of the city and still has a great tailgate culture.

I think a Stadium could be built in the City that accommodates tailgating but the footprint of the land involved would have to be large enough for that to happen.

[DetDannyWilliams]

how the Pegula's will get a new stadium built... subsidies

The Buffalo Sabres like to point out that HarborCenter (http://www.harborcenter.com/), which opens later this week, is privately financed to the tune of $172.2 million.
Left unsaid is that the complex is also publicly subsidized, enjoying an estimated $57 million in local and state tax breaks.
The Sabres have been granted two subsidies worth $57 million to help offset the cost of the $172 million project.
The larger of the two subsidies, worth $36.7 million, comes from the Erie County Industrial Development Agency (http://www.ecidany.com/).
Estimated savings include:


$28 million in property taxes over 10 years.
$7.5 million in sales tax on construction materials and equipment.
$1.2 million in mortgage recording taxes.


http://www.investigativepost.org/2014/10/29/big-subsidies-harborcenter/

[better days]

how the Pegula's will get a new stadium built... subsidies

The Buffalo Sabres like to point out that HarborCenter (http://www.harborcenter.com/), which opens later this week, is privately financed to the tune of $172.2 million.
Left unsaid is that the complex is also publicly subsidized, enjoying an estimated $57 million in local and state tax breaks.
The Sabres have been granted two subsidies worth $57 million to help offset the cost of the $172 million project.
The larger of the two subsidies, worth $36.7 million, comes from the Erie County Industrial Development Agency (http://www.ecidany.com/).
Estimated savings include:


$28 million in property taxes over 10 years.
$7.5 million in sales tax on construction materials and equipment.
$1.2 million in mortgage recording taxes.


http://www.investigativepost.org/2014/10/29/big-subsidies-harborcenter/





I think tax breaks are a good way to go to get things built in a City that needs to be rebuilt.