Manuel Worked With Steve DeBerg On His Throwing Motion

[Night Train]

Interesting. Said he went to Tampa in January and worked with DeBerg on his throwing motion (which was bad, IMO). I hope setting his feet correctly was also part of the education.

DeBerg played QB in the NFL for an incredible 21 years. Cement shoes guy but had a perfect looking throwing motion. We'll see if it pays dividends when the bullets start flying.

At least he's working at getting better and realizes this is it. I believe he took his starting status as a given until he was yanked last October. Sounds like he's wide awake now and putting in the work.

We'll see.

[justasportsfan]

then David Lee comes in a changes everything and we're back to square 1.

[Historian]

Steve DeBerg....the Ultimate journeyman.

NFLN needs to do a top ten just on the teams he's been on.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Steve DeBerg? What, was Jeff Blake not available??

[sukie]

Was it more than a lunch, perhaps a dinner and movie , or was real work done? How long was he there? Did he work for a week or just a morning before going to Busch Gardens?

[better days]

Interesting. Said he went to Tampa in January and worked with DeBerg on his throwing motion (which was bad, IMO). I hope setting his feet correctly was also part of the education.

DeBerg played QB in the NFL for an incredible 21 years. Cement shoes guy but had a perfect looking throwing motion. We'll see if it pays dividends when the bullets start flying.

At least he's working at getting better and realizes this is it. I believe he took his starting status as a given until he was yanked last October. Sounds like he's wide awake now and putting in the work.

We'll see.

DeBerg played at a time it was a strength to stand in the pocket, not a hinderence.

Guys that moved around at that time were said to have "happy feet" & that was not a compliment.

I enjoyed watching him play on some terrible Bucs teams.

[stuckincincy]

Interesting. Said he went to Tampa in January and worked with DeBerg on his throwing motion (which was bad, IMO). I hope setting his feet correctly was also part of the education.

DeBerg played QB in the NFL for an incredible 21 years. Cement shoes guy but had a perfect looking throwing motion. We'll see if it pays dividends when the bullets start flying.

At least he's working at getting better and realizes this is it. I believe he took his starting status as a given until he was yanked last October. Sounds like he's wide awake now and putting in the work.

We'll see.

Good - every little bit helps.

[swiper]

Steve DeBerg had a funny throwing motion.

And, meanwhile, Geno Smith is working out with Tom Brady's guy.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/06/geno-smith-worked-with-tom-house-this-offseason/

[The King]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iFcuN2zI3u0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[HHURRICANE]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iFcuN2zI3u0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Beat me to it!!!!!

[psubills62]

Serious question, but when was the last time a QB at this level working on this throwing motion improved his play? Not even sure it's that successful at the collegiate level. Feels like once you get to college, your throwing motion is pretty well set.

Either way, it's a positive that he's trying, hope he carries over to the field.

[better days]

Serious question, but when was the last time a QB at this level working on this throwing motion improved his play? Not even sure it's that successful at the collegiate level. Feels like once you get to college, your throwing motion is pretty well set.

Either way, it's a positive that he's trying, hope he carries over to the field.

Tom Brady. 6th rnd draft pick to Pro Bowl player.

[better days]

Steve DeBerg had a funny throwing motion.

And, meanwhile, Geno Smith is working out with Tom Brady's guy.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/06/geno-smith-worked-with-tom-house-this-offseason/

You don't last 21 years in the NFL unless you throw the ball well.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/06/geno-smith-worked-with-tom-house-this-offseason/


Ryan Fitzpatrick (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3240/ryan-fitzpatrick) is currently the other player in that competition, although the Jets have indicated their desire to make another addition (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/02/jets-want-to-add-another-quarterback-to-their-roster/) at the position. Smith evaded a question about Marcus Mariota (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9385/marcus-mariota) being that addition and added that he was looking to Fitzpatrick as a teacher thanks to Fitzpatrick’s “better understanding (https://twitter.com/RichCimini/status/585129252372275201)” of the offense


Fitzpatrick will be limited in offseason work as he recovers from a broken leg, which gives Smith an early opportunity to put his best foot forward in an attempt to grab the starting job. Along with the financial benefits (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/06/geno-smith-can-earn-a-little-money-while-holding-onto-job/) just for showing up, that makes for plenty of motivation for Smith this offseason.

This is Smith's last chance. If you get benched for Mark Sanchez, Mike Vick, and Ryan Fitzpatrick, that's a TKO. You are out of the league by rule.

[Mace]

I guess it's something. I'd have felt better though to hear he was hanging out with Kurt Warner and Colin Kaepernick.

[Mace]

You don't last 21 years in the NFL unless you throw the ball well.

Well DeBerg did. Lifetime 53-86-1, 57.2 comp pct, 196 TD's to 204 int's, had one really good year, 1990, the rest is well...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DebeSt00.htm

[YardRat]

Good for him, glad to see he was working with somebody this off-season. See? This stuff usually makes it to the media at some point.

[bleve]

Good for him, he certainly wants to be successful. I'm just afraid that he'll continue to throw three yards behind the receiver, and have a "better throwing motion" in the process.

[better days]

Well DeBerg did. Lifetime 53-86-1, 57.2 comp pct, 196 TD's to 204 int's, had one really good year, 1990, the rest is well...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DebeSt00.htm

DeBerg was on some TERRIBLE teams in his career.

I doubt a HOF QB could have won on most of the teams he was on.

Still, to play 21 years in the NFL, MANY of them as a starter, says something about his ability.

[Strongman]

EJ's throws always seemed to look a little funny to me... almost like a lack of follow through. Hopefully fixing this can make him more accurate.

[Ingtar33]

Serious question, but when was the last time a QB at this level working on this throwing motion improved his play? Not even sure it's that successful at the collegiate level. Feels like once you get to college, your throwing motion is pretty well set.

Either way, it's a positive that he's trying, hope he carries over to the field.

not throwing motion (and while ej's was spotty it usually was solid form when he planted his feet and let it rip; to me his biggest issue has always been his feet and head), but Steve Young worked for 3 years on his footwork behind Joe Montana. went from a flaky almost wasn't to all pro/hof guy. so it is possible to reinvent your game.

[Meathead]

i got this far in life not knowing who chris de burgh is and im not gonna start no ... dammit

[Mace]

DeBerg was on some TERRIBLE teams in his career.

I doubt a HOF QB could have won on most of the teams he was on.

Still, to play 21 years in the NFL, MANY of them as a starter, says something about his ability.

Yeah. I'm not going to be arguing about DeBerg. The truth is too, some people teach better than they practice, and it's good enough to me Manuel was doing something instead of not, so...

[Jeff1220]

Weird how when I came on the board today, there were two threads claiming completely opposite things right next to each other.

[Mace]

Weird how when I came on the board today, there were two threads claiming completely opposite things right next to each other.

Never at all weird on a message board.

[swiper]

You don't last 21 years in the NFL unless you throw the ball well.

I didn't say he didn't throw the ball well. He had a funny throwing motion.

[swiper]

DeBerg was on some TERRIBLE teams in his career.

I doubt a HOF QB could have won on most of the teams he was on.

Still, to play 21 years in the NFL, MANY of them as a starter, says something about his ability.

I always kinda liked DeBerg. He's just not the one to teach throwing motion to another QB.

[jimmifli]

Yeah. I'm not going to be arguing about DeBerg. The truth is too, some people teach better than they practice,
Wayne Gretzky was one of the worst coaches I've ever seen. Being good doesn't make you a good coach.

Glad EJ is trying to improve. I hope it worked.

[better days]

Wayne Gretzky was one of the worst coaches I've ever seen. Being good doesn't make you a good coach.

Glad EJ is trying to improve. I hope it worked.

STARS rarely make GOOD Coaches.

Michael Jordan was a TERRIBLE Coach as well.

As was Bart Starr.

Steve DeBerg, while he played a LONG time in the NFL was NEVER a STAR.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Wayne Gretzky was one of the worst coaches I've ever seen. Being good doesn't make you a good coach.

Glad EJ is trying to improve. I hope it worked.

The list of guys who were both great players and great coaches is pretty short. Mike Ditka, Dick LeBeau, Larry Bird I guess? I can't really think of too many others, to be honest.

[Goobylal]

Steve DeBerg had a funny throwing motion.

And, meanwhile, Geno Smith is working out with Tom Brady's guy.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/06/geno-smith-worked-with-tom-house-this-offseason/
And that guy also worked with Tim Tebow.

[jimmifli]

The list of guys who were both great players and great coaches is pretty short. Mike Ditka, Dick LeBeau, Larry Bird I guess? I can't really think of too many others, to be honest.

Agreed. That's why the criticism of DeBerg's playing career is so hollow. I'd rather know who else he has coached and if they improved.

[jimmifli]

TAMPA, Fla. | Twenty minutes north of ground zero for Super Bowl XLIII, pop star Justin Timberlake unwinds, shortstop Derek Jeter prepares, quarterback Donovan McNabb recovers, and Michael Jordan plays a round of golf.

Tampa’s Saddlebrook Resort is the offseason home for the biggest and baddest entertainers America produces. The opulent paradise is a sanctuary for the wealthy. They flock here for the warm weather, the seclusion and the pampering.

Steve DeBerg comes here to work. He tutors quarterbacks. In the spring and summer he schools prep QBs in hopes of readying them for a college scholarship. This time of year, he prepares college QBs for the combine and NFL draft.

He’s paid handsomely. He’s developed a reputation as a QB guru. He’s the Butch Harmon of football. You know Butch Harmon, Tiger Woods’ former swing coach. DeBerg is the “fling” coach.

“The thing I teach the most is how to quick release the football with power, speeding up the delivery,” DeBerg said Thursday. “Why does Tiger Woods need a swing coach? He has the greatest swing there ever was. Sometimes you get a little out of sync and you can’t realize it yourself.

“A lot of quarterbacks don’t understand technique. Even most quarterback coaches don’t even know what the most advanced throwing techniques are. They teach. ‘This is who you’re supposed to throw it to and if you can’t do it, we’ll let Joe try it.’ At the NFL level there is so much strategy involved in preparing a quarterback to play that the technique part kind of gets overlooked.”

That’s where DeBerg comes in. Agents hire DeBerg to prep their clients. It’s why a kid might look like the second coming at the combine and look second fiddle at training camp. Kids are getting better coaching before the draft than after it.

You think - Curl knows more about proper technique than Steve DeBerg? Quarterback coaches teach assignments and read progressions. DeBerg teaches release point, peripheral vision, footwork, posture and follow-through.

DeBerg’s most famous client was Tony Romo, the Cowboys QB. DeBerg fell in love with Romo long before Bill Parcells. DeBerg thought Romo was worthy of a high draft pick. DeBerg taught Romo the high, compact, short-burst release that NFL analysts now love and compare to Brett Favre’s.

I drove up to Saddlebrook on Thursday because I wanted to talk quarterback play with DeBerg. Whenever the Chiefs get around to identifying a new coach, their next big decision will revolve around the QB position.

Is Tyler Thigpen a legitimate QB of the future? What should the Chiefs be looking for in a young QB?

DeBerg has spent most of his 55 years thinking about playing quarterback. He survived 17 years in the NFL because he mastered the little things about the position. He hatched an improbable return to the league at age 45, earning a spot on the 1998 Super Bowl Atlanta Falcons, thanks largely to his ability to help Atlanta’s other QBs prepare for games.

DeBerg knows the position. He’s played it at the highest level, most memorably as a Kansas City Chief in 1990, and coached the position for the New York Giants. He knows what the Chiefs should be looking for now.

“No. 1, you have to have accuracy,” DeBerg said. “You have to have a quick release. You have to have arm strength. You have to have intelligence.”

And then you have to get lucky.

“It’s just so hard to predict how a quarterback will handle the NFL,” DeBerg acknowledged. “Romo wasn’t drafted. How could everyone be wrong about him? Tom Brady, the best in the game, was a sixth-round pick. A lot of people were wrong about him.”
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=294364

[Oaf]

Was it more than a lunch, perhaps a dinner and movie , or was real work done? How long was he there? Did he work for a week or just a morning before going to Busch Gardens?

I love Busch Gardens.

[HHURRICANE]

I guess everyone forgot why he got benched last year.

Is Steve DeBerg teaching him how to throw a screen pass or a quick out which in this offense is going to be critical? Matt Cassel already has a huge advantage here.

I like EJ and I commend his work ethic. But lazy Kyle Orton was hands down better and that's not saying much.

[better days]

I guess everyone forgot why he got benched last year.

Is Steve DeBerg teaching him how to throw a screen pass or a quick out which in this offense is going to be critical? Matt Cassel already has a huge advantage here.

I like EJ and I commend his work ethic. But lazy Kyle Orton was hands down better and that's not saying much.

Well, I disagree that long time journeyman Orton was hands down better last year than EJ who has played all of 14 games so far.

EJ lost to the Texans in Houston on a great play by Watt & lost to a GOOD Chargers team.

EJ won against the Bears on the road & against the Fins.

Orton lost to the Chiefs, Fins, & Raiders. Three games I think EJ could have won.

[better days]

I didn't say he didn't throw the ball well. He had a funny throwing motion.

Funny how?

I remember Deberg's throwing motion as a classic overhead delivery, not a side arm delivery or anything I would call funny.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well, I disagree that long time journeyman Orton was hands down better last year than EJ who has played all of 14 games so far.

EJ lost to the Texans in Houston on a great play by Watt & lost to a GOOD Chargers team.

EJ won against the Bears on the road & against the Fins.

Orton lost to the Chiefs, Fins, & Raiders. Three games I think EJ could have won.

EJ did not play well last year, you're just trying to spin things around to prove your point. For example..


Well, I disagree that long time journeyman Orton was hands down better last year than EJ who has played all of 14 games so far.

What does EJ playing 'all of 14 games' have to do with who was better last year?


EJ lost to the Texans in Houston on a great play by Watt & lost to a GOOD Chargers team.

A great play by Watt? It was definitely an athletic play by JJ, but it was an absolutely terrible play by EJ that cost us the game. Also, the only reason it cost us the game was because EJ was completely ineffective the rest of the game.

I hope EJ competes for the starting job this year and I hope he gets it because he deserves it, not because everyone else sucks. Every Bills fan should be hoping that because that's the quickest way to get to the playoffs and would ensure that we have a future QB. Judging by his past, it's hard to convince me that it's going to happen though.

[better days]

EJ did not play well last year, you're just trying to spin things around to prove your point. For example..



What does EJ playing 'all of 14 games' have to do with who was better last year?



A great play by Watt? It was definitely an athletic play by JJ, but it was an absolutely terrible play by EJ that cost us the game. Also, the only reason it cost us the game was because EJ was completely ineffective the rest of the game.

I hope EJ competes for the starting job this year and I hope he gets it because he deserves it, not because everyone else sucks. Every Bills fan should be hoping that because that's the quickest way to get to the playoffs and would ensure that we have a future QB. Judging by his past, it's hard to convince me that it's going to happen though.

EJ played well enough to beat the Bears & Fins last year. He lost to two good teams.

The 14 games shows how little experience EJ has had compared to Orton who has been in the NFL MUCH longer than EJ & is REALLY no better than EJ.

And YES it was a GREAT play by Watt that cost the Bills that game.

And if Cassel wins the QB job this year, I will be fine with that.

[better days]

I guess everyone forgot why he got benched last year.

For the same reason Mike Williams & Kraig Urbik were benched?

[Joe Fo Sho]

EJ played well enough to beat the Bears & Fins last year. He lost to two good teams.

Yet you don't mention the dumpster fire that was the Chicago Bears last year..

He beat the Fins with 5 FGs and a kick return touchdown. Five field goals isn't impressive, especially when 4 of them are under 32 yards or less. Get in the friggin endzone. The defense gave up 10 points, Orton would have won that game too.


The 14 games shows how little experience EJ has had compared to Orton who has been in the NFL MUCH longer than EJ & is REALLY no better than EJ.

When comparing who is the better QB at a certain point in time, historical stats mean nothing. Orton was better last year, using EJs lack of experience is you making an excuse as to why he was the worse QB.


And YES it was a GREAT play by Watt that cost the Bills that game.

Saying it twice doesn't make it true. It was an awful play by EJ...just terrible.


And if Cassel wins the QB job this year, I will be fine with that.

Me too.

[better days]

Yet you don't mention the dumpster fire that was the Chicago Bears last year..

He beat the Fins with 5 FGs and a kick return touchdown. Five field goals isn't impressive, especially when 4 of them are under 32 yards or less. Get in the friggin endzone. The defense gave up 10 points, Orton would have won that game too.



When comparing who is the better QB at a certain point in time, historical stats mean nothing. Orton was better last year, using EJs lack of experience is you making an excuse as to why he was the worse QB.



Saying it twice doesn't make it true. It was an awful play by EJ...just terrible.



Me too.

The Bills played the Bears in the first game in Chicago. They were not a dumpster fire at that time.

Maybe Orton would have beaten the Fins & maybe he would not have. I will take 5 FG's & a win any day. It is the Coaches decision to go for the field goal.

I used EJ's lack of experience to show that even with MUCH MORE EXPERIENCE, Orton is not any better than EJ.

And I will say it a third time, it was a GREAT PLAY by Watt. They showed that play on NFL Network on an interview EJ did & anyone can see, it was a GREAT play by Watt that FEW DT's would have made.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The Bills played the Bears in the first game in Chicago. They were not a dumpster fire at that time.

They were a dumpster fire, just no one could see the smoke yet.


Maybe Orton would have beaten the Fins & maybe he would not have. I will take 5 FG's & a win any day. It is the Coaches decision to go for the field goal.

Don't give the coach the option. He won't kick a field goal on 1st down.


I used EJ's lack of experience to show that even with MUCH MORE EXPERIENCE, Orton is not any better than EJ.

I don't know what to tell you, other than you're wrong. Orton was the better QB last year.


And I will say it a third time, it was a GREAT PLAY by Watt. They showed that play on NFL Network on an interview EJ did & anyone can see, it was a GREAT play by Watt that FEW DT's would have made.

Ok. JJ Watt made a GREAT play that was allowed to happen because EJ made a HORRIFIC decision.


that FEW DT's would have made.

I don't think many OL, K, P, FB, or coaches could've made that play either. I don't know what that has to do with DE JJ Watt though.

[better days]

They were a dumpster fire, just no one could see the smoke yet.



Don't give the coach the option. He won't kick a field goal on 1st down.



I don't know what to tell you, other than you're wrong. Orton was the better QB last year.



Ok. JJ Watt made a GREAT play that was allowed to happen because EJ made a HORRIFIC decision.



I don't think many OL, K, P, FB, or coaches could've made that play either. I don't know what that has to do with DE JJ Watt though.

I don't know what to tell you but you are WRONG.

[DesertFox24]

Look reality is EJ is not going to pan out. As a fan I still hope that he does and becomes an Andy Dalton esq player, but I have my doubts. I like the guy and think he is a hard worker and really wants to be good, but sometimes it just does not happen at the pro level. That being said I really hope he does, but any of this talk is just pure garbage at this point. Until the pre season and September we will have no idea if he turned the corner or not. However, if Cassal wins the job we all know he busted.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

EJ played well enough to beat the Bears & Fins last year. He lost to two good teams.

If we judged EJ in those games by the standards that you judged Brady in the Super Bowl, EJ did NOTHING to win those games.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I don't know what to tell you but you are WRONG.

Well my opinion can be backed up by the fact that a professional football team also thought Orton was better than EJ. Your opinion is backed up by...I don't know, maybe your mom agrees with you?

[Dr. Who]

Look reality is EJ is not going to pan out. As a fan I still hope that he does and becomes an Andy Dalton esq player, but I have my doubts. I like the guy and think he is a hard worker and really wants to be good, but sometimes it just does not happen at the pro level. That being said I really hope he does, but any of this talk is just pure garbage at this point. Until the pre season and September we will have no idea if he turned the corner or not. However, if Cassal wins the job we all know he busted.


Isn't your first sentence at odds with rest of your statement. If we know EJ is not going to pan out, there's no reason to wait and see what the future holds.
I surmise you are pessimistic, but haven't concluded with metaphysical certitude that EJ is a bust.

[Dr. Who]

Well my opinion can be backed up by the fact that a professional football team also thought Orton was better than EJ. Your opinion is backed up by...I don't know, maybe your mom agrees with you?

Why the snideness? Betterdays hasn't insulted you, just disagreed.

I am not at all convinced that Doug Marrone and Co. had a clue about an NFL offense, offensive line, how to develop a qb.
So, their judgment is not a probative indictment. Orton, imo, regressed as the year went on.
Certainly, I think EJ was the equal of Orton at the end of the year.

Doesn't really matter. Let's see what happens with Roman, Kromer, people I am confident are at least competent NFL coaches.
I predict EJ will play well. If he doesn't, we will move on and this endless back and forth will mercifully end.

[Bill Cody]

Well my opinion can be backed up by the fact that a professional football team also thought Orton was better than EJ. Your opinion is backed up by...I don't know, maybe your mom agrees with you?

this post is a douche bag

[better days]

Well my opinion can be backed up by the fact that a professional football team also thought Orton was better than EJ. Your opinion is backed up by...I don't know, maybe your mom agrees with you?

NO, Marrone thought that.

The same guy that refused to play Urbik & Mike Williams.

And is now an OLINE Coach.

[better days]

If we judged EJ in those games by the standards that you judged Brady in the Super Bowl, EJ did NOTHING to win those games.

Fair enough.

[Joe Fo Sho]

this post is a douche bag

How so?

[BertSquirtgum]

STARS rarely make GOOD Coaches.

Michael Jordan was a TERRIBLE Coach as well.

As was Bart Starr.

Steve DeBerg, while he played a LONG time in the NFL was NEVER a STAR.

WHY do you NEED to EMPHASIZE every other word?

[better days]

WHY do you NEED to EMPHASIZE every other word?

Why does that bother you?

[Joe Fo Sho]

NO, Marrone thought that.

The same guy that refused to play Urbik & Mike Williams.

And is now an OLINE Coach.

An NFL coach thought Orton was better than EJ, that's my point.

[better days]

An NFL coach thought Orton was better than EJ, that's my point.

Yeah, an NFL Coach who now Coaches the OL of the Jags.

We will see what a REAL HC thinks of EJ this year.

If Ryan & Roman determine that EJ is not worth starting, so be it.

But like I said before, the same NFL Coach that refused to play EJ also refused to play Urbik & Mike Williams.

[BertSquirtgum]

An NFL coach thought Orton was better than EJ, that's my point.

A worthless joke of a head coach.

[Joe Fo Sho]

A worthless joke of a head coach.

A worthless joke of an NFL head coach, yeah.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Yeah, an NFL Coach who now Coaches the OL of the Jags.

An NFL coach who is making $4 mil this year.


We will see what a REAL HC thinks of EJ this year.

I might be arguing with you, but I hope you're right.


But like I said before, the same NFL Coach that refused to play EJ also refused to play Urbik & Mike Williams.

The Steelers waived Urbik. Are you saying Tomlin is on par with Marrone?

Which high quality NFL head coach snatched Mike Williams up during this free agent period?

[better days]

An NFL coach who is making $4 mil this year.



I might be arguing with you, but I hope you're right.



The Steelers waived Urbik. Are you saying Tomlin is on par with Marrone?

Which high quality NFL head coach snatched Mike Williams up during this free agent period?

Who did the Steelers have at Guard that they kept over Urbik? I would bet a better player than the Bills had last year starting instead of Urbik.

Let's wait & see what happens. Marrone derailed Mike Williams career, but I will be surprised if Mike Williams is not on a team by the 2nd game of the season.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Who did the Steelers have at Guard that they kept over Urbik? I would bet a better player than the Bills had last year starting instead of Urbik.

I have no idea, but I would hope they would have a better player than Urbik if they released him. They probably had 2 starting guards and probably a depth guy or two that were better...but Urbik started for Buffalo.


Let's wait & see what happens. Marrone derailed Mike Williams career, but I will be surprised if Mike Williams is not on a team by the 2nd game of the season.

I hate Marrone for how he left here, but he did win 9 games and had this team on an upswing. I was really hoping Mike Williams would have a good year here, but whatever happened between him and Marrone, he's still not employed.

[better days]

I have no idea, but I would hope they would have a better player than Urbik if they released him. They probably had 2 starting guards and probably a depth guy or two that were better...but Urbik started for Buffalo.



I hate Marrone for how he left here, but he did win 9 games and had this team on an upswing. I was really hoping Mike Williams would have a good year here, but whatever happened between him and Marrone, he's still not employed.

That says the Steelers had a better OL than the Bills which I think we can agree on.

And yes the Bills had 9 wins with Marrone as HC.

The question is how many wins would they have had if Rex was the HC the last two years or any other GOOD HC was HC instead of Marrone?

I think a GOOD HC would have won more games than Marrone did.

[Joe Fo Sho]

That says the Steelers had a better OL than the Bills which I think we can agree on.

Absolutely. Just saying that Urbik is not pro bowl quality, it's not unfathomable that he didn't understand Marrone's blocking schemes or couldn't perform them properly.


The question is how many wins would they have had if Rex was the HC the last two years or any other GOOD HC was HC instead of Marrone?

Hopefully 38.

[Goobylal]

An NFL coach thought Orton was better than EJ, that's my point.
No, he was a college coach who was inappropriately hired as an NFL coach. And will soon be back coaching in college. At best.

[Joe Fo Sho]

No, he was a college coach who was inappropriately hired as an NFL coach. And will soon be back coaching in college. At best.

Jeepers, you guys are rough. He had 9 wins last year, he wasn't a scrub. Yeah he was a piece of trash as a person, but you guys are letting your emotions get the best of you.

[better days]

Jeepers, you guys are rough. He had 9 wins last year, he wasn't a scrub. Yeah he was a piece of trash as a person, but you guys are letting your emotions get the best of you.

No emotion involved.

I believe a better HC would have won more games than Marrone did as HC of the Bills those two years.

[Night Train]

No, he was a college coach who was inappropriately hired as an NFL coach. And will soon be back coaching in college. At best.

Chip Kelly ?

[Joe Fo Sho]

No emotion involved.

I believe a better HC would have won more games than Marrone did as HC of the Bills those two years.

You understand that what you just said cannot be wrong, right? By definition, a 'better coach' would be unable to lose more games than the coach that he is better than. A coach better than Belichick would've gone 19-0 with NE in 2007.

[better days]

You understand that what you just said cannot be wrong, right? By definition, a 'better coach' would be unable to lose more games than the coach that he is better than. A coach better than Belichick would've gone 19-0 with NE in 2007.

Good point.

And I think you realize there are MANY Coaches BETTER than Marrone.

Therefore it is logical to think the 9 wins last year by Marrone do not amount to a hill of beans.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Jeepers, you guys are rough. He had 9 wins last year, he wasn't a scrub. Yeah he was a piece of trash as a person, but you guys are letting your emotions get the best of you.

He had some potential. If he hadn't quit, I would have been OK giving him another year provided he replaced Hackett.

[Goobylal]

Jeepers, you guys are rough. He had 9 wins last year, he wasn't a scrub. Yeah he was a piece of trash as a person, but you guys are letting your emotions get the best of you.
He didn't have 9 wins: the team did. And they were largely, if not exclusively, as a result of the defense and ST's, with which Marrone had nothing to do. In fact his area of expertise, offense, specifically the OL, were the worst parts of the team and among the worst in the NFL.

And if you think this is emotion, it's not. I began disliking Marrone near the end of the 2013 season. The thought of him being back for 2015 made me disinterested in the upcoming season, so when I heard he pulled a power play and was shown the door, I was ecstatic. He did us a favor.

[better days]

He had some potential. If he hadn't quit, I would have been OK giving him another year provided he replaced Hackett.

The irony is that it has come out after the fact that Marrone was the person responsible for the Bills inept offense, not Hackett.

After the season ended, it was reported Marrone ordered Hackett to simplify his offense.

And I suspect that Marrone is the person responsible for both EJ & Orton playing timid & scared as evidenced by EJ not running in 2014 like he did the year before

& Orton sliding before picking up the first down when there were no players from the other team near him when he slid.

[Strongman]

The irony is that it has come out after the fact that Marrone was the person responsible for the Bills inept offense, not Hackett.

After the season ended, it was reported Marrone ordered Hackett to simplify his offense.

And I suspect that Marrone is the person responsible for both EJ & Orton playing timid & scared as evidenced by EJ not running in 2014 like he did the year before

& Orton sliding before picking up the first down when there were no players from the other team near him when he slid.

It's very possible that the offense would have been worse if Hackett was allowed free reign. The guy was not ready to be an OC in the NFL.

[BertSquirtgum]

It's very possible that the offense would have been worse if Hackett was allowed free reign. The guy was not ready to be an OC in the NFL.

I don't think that is possible.

[Joe Fo Sho]

He didn't have 9 wins: the team did. And they were largely, if not exclusively, as a result of the defense and ST's, with which Marrone had nothing to do. In fact his area of expertise, offense, specifically the OL, were the worst parts of the team and among the worst in the NFL.

And if you think this is emotion, it's not. I began disliking Marrone near the end of the 2013 season. The thought of him being back for 2015 made me disinterested in the upcoming season, so when I heard he pulled a power play and was shown the door, I was ecstatic. He did us a favor.

He may not have had anything to do with the defense or special teams, he did put the coaching staff together. He also knew enough to stay out of the way of a good thing, not all coaches are willing to do that.

I understand that Marrone had several flaws and that a lot of people didn't like him based purely on his coaching ability. While he may never have got to the tier of being a 'good' coach, he was not a 'terrible' coach either. The guy was average, but deserves at least a bit of credit for what he did. Other than that, **** him for the way he left.

[Goobylal]

He may not have had anything to do with the defense or special teams, he did put the coaching staff together. He also knew enough to stay out of the way of a good thing, not all coaches are willing to do that.

I understand that Marrone had several flaws and that a lot of people didn't like him based purely on his coaching ability. While he may never have got to the tier of being a 'good' coach, he was not a 'terrible' coach either. The guy was average, but deserves at least a bit of credit for what he did. Other than that, **** him for the way he left.
Crossman looked like a dud until he got better players on his units. And Pettine might have been a good hire, but Schwartz was a no-brainer and took it to another level.

And again, I don't care how/why/the way he left. I'm just glad he made the decision easy.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The irony is that it has come out after the fact that Marrone was the person responsible for the Bills inept offense, not Hackett.

After the season ended, it was reported Marrone ordered Hackett to simplify his offense.

And I suspect that Marrone is the person responsible for both EJ & Orton playing timid & scared as evidenced by EJ not running in 2014 like he did the year before

& Orton sliding before picking up the first down when there were no players from the other team near him when he slid.

Perhaps I haven't read the right articles, but my understanding was that Marrone spent his time on the OLine nad basically left Hackett up to his own devices. Obviously both of those were bad decisions, but Marrone is still a young coach and I thought he had earned another year to figure things out. Hackett didn't.

[BillsImpossible]

Manuel worked with Steve DeBerg.

That's like hiring a porn star to work on your money shot.

That didn't sound right.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Manuel worked with Steve DeBerg.

That's like hiring a porn star to work on your money shot.

That didn't sound right.

If Manuel is this inaccurate with the football, his porn career would be exciting without question. Nobody knows where that money shot would end up.

[better days]

Perhaps I haven't read the right articles, but my understanding was that Marrone spent his time on the OLine nad basically left Hackett up to his own devices. Obviously both of those were bad decisions, but Marrone is still a young coach and I thought he had earned another year to figure things out. Hackett didn't.

Your understanding is wrong.

Like I said, it was reported that Marrone interfered with Hackett's offense & had him simplify it.

He also interfered with the OL as you said.

As Goobylal said, I 'm just happy Marrone quit. As EJ said, "God works in mysterious ways."

[Historian]

I'm trying to think of the teams...

SF
KC
Denver