2015-2016 roster - Eichel edition

[coastal]

Trade #1 - Grigerenko and our 1st round pick (Isles) for ROR
Trade #2 - Zadorov and both of our 2nd round picks for TJ Oshie

Evander Kane - Jack Eichel - TJ Oshie
Tyler Ennis - ROR - Matt Moulson
Marcus Foligno - Zemgus Girgensons - Brian Gionta
Deslauriers - Rinehart - Larson

Risto - Weber
Bogo - Pysyk
Gorges - McCabe

Neuvirth
Enroth

[casdhf]

weber ....

[ct bills fan]

Looks good but how about a fa signing other than goalies, maybe a dman? No way Reinhardt is a 4th line center - they'd put him as first line center in Rochester before 4th line center in buf

[ct bills fan]

And no weber please, certainly not a first line d

[OpIv37]

Reinhardt may start as a 4th line center but he won't be there long.

I'd do the ROR trade in a second. Not sure if I'd give up on Zads yet, especially since it means Weber gets more playing time.

I'd like to move on from Moulson but we would need another moderately priced vet winger.

[casdhf]

he has a no movement clause and 4 years left ...

He would be an excellent 2nd liner.

[mightysimi]

IMO no way does Grigorenko and a 1st get O'Reilly. They are going to want a roster player in return.

[coastal]

I think you're underestimating cap issues here.

[mightysimi]

I think you're underestimating cap issues here.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=COL

This shows that COL has plenty of space to re-sign him. I do think it's possible but just with not Grigorenko. Why would they give up one of their top C for 2 question marks? Specially 1 question mark who has shown no ability to stick with an NHL club and coming off his rookie deal. And not just any NHL club, a historically terrible one. So I think you are over-estimating Grigorenko's value. I still think that they would want a roster player in the deal.

[JATMtheJATM]

I'm not moving zad for tj oshie. No way.

[coastal]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=COL

This shows that COL has plenty of space to re-sign him. I do think it's possible but just with not Grigorenko. Why would they give up one of their top C for 2 question marks? Specially 1 question mark who has shown no ability to stick with an NHL club and coming off his rookie deal. And not just any NHL club, a historically terrible one. So I think you are over-estimating Grigorenko's value. I still think that they would want a roster player in the deal.
http://www.milehighhockey.com/2015/2/16/8044411/window-shopping-should-avalanche-trade-ryan-oreilly

heres a good read I've been aware of for awhile now. There's a balancing act here related to centers and their cap that they're going to have to be mindful of. O'Reilly could realistically be a 3rd line center. Do you pay a 3rd line center $7 million?

Its is a question the Sabres may face at some point when it comes to Girgensons.

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I'm not moving zad for tj oshie. No way.
That's because you're an idiot goalie.

[JATMtheJATM]

No, because you don't trade away youth for a guy exiting his prime during a rebuild.

[coastal]

He's 28 and I want to win next year.

[coastal]

Reinhardt may start as a 4th line center but he won't be there long.

I'd do the ROR trade in a second. Not sure if I'd give up on Zads yet, especially since it means Weber gets more playing time.

I'd like to move on from Moulson but we would need another moderately priced vet winger.
Not if your rolling 4 lines all season long and he's killing penalties?

[JATMtheJATM]

He's 28 and I want to win next year.

Sorry, I don't believe in abandoning a long term plan for an aging player. I want to win next year too, but not at the expense of a young stud d-man.

[coastal]

He isn't a stud.

Hes an ignorant kid.

[JATMtheJATM]

Emphasis on the word "kid"

[coastal]

u have an obsession with the promise of tomorrow.

[JATMtheJATM]

I do. I don't believe in trading away youth for an aging player during a rebuild. Good teams don't become good by being impatient.

[coastal]

Zad is going to grow up to be the next Chara.

i Can just fee it

[JATMtheJATM]

K

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K

[coastal]

Exactly

[elltrain22]

Does anyone here not see either Baptiste or Bailey as possible forwards next year?

[JATMtheJATM]

Exactly

Exactly what? You said something stupid, I let it go.

[Dr. Lecter]

Does anyone here not see either Baptiste or Bailey as possible forwards next year?

With Rochester. I don't see them making the jump and skipping the AHL.

[mightysimi]

http://www.milehighhockey.com/2015/2/16/8044411/window-shopping-should-avalanche-trade-ryan-oreilly

heres a good read I've been aware of for awhile now. There's a balancing act here related to centers and their cap that they're going to have to be mindful of. O'Reilly could realistically be a 3rd line center. Do you pay a 3rd line center $7 million?

Its is a question the Sabres may face at some point when it comes to Girgensons.

I believe that he is getting paid too much (Calgary's fault) but how at this point in his career, while already having a hold out, will you get him to go down in salary? That would have to happen a year after sending a 1st round pick and a sort of prospect. Or he will walk and you wll get nothing for your investment. I also believe that the Avs might trade O'Reilly but the point being is that I think they will want something in return as opposed to "potential".

[OpIv37]

I believe that he is getting paid too much (Calgary's fault) but how at this point in his career, while already having a hold out, will you get him to go down in salary? That would have to happen a year after sending a 1st round pick and a sort of prospect. Or he will walk and you wll get nothing for your investment. I also believe that the Avs might trade O'Reilly but the point being is that I think they will want something in return as opposed to "potential".

Problem is that we don't have much in the way of proven players. It's really just Ennis, Bogosian, Kane and Moulson at this point- arguably Gionta and Gorges but they are clearly on the downside of their careers. I don't see us giving up Ennis, or Kane or Bogosian after what we just paid for them. That only leaves Moulson and I don't know why anyone would want him after the way he sleptwalked through this past season.

[coastal]

Plus we can afford $6.5 million for him and guarantee him the 2nd line center for the prime of his career.

What is outlined in this roster are three lines that can roll, play and compete.

Two prime time wingers surrounding our rookie franchise center piece. A second line all in their primes. A third line with some big two way bodies and a vet helping to snipe an opportune goal here and there. A fourth line of some young promise itching to get their shift.

Whats not not to like about this?

[mightysimi]

Plus we can afford $6.5 million for him and guarantee him the 2nd line center for the prime of his career.

What is outlined in this roster are three lines that can roll, play and compete.

Two prime time wingers surrounding our rookie franchise center piece. A second line all in their primes. A third line with some big two way bodies and a vet helping to snipe an opportune goal here and there. A fourth line of some young promise itching to get their shift.

Whats not not to like about this?

So you are willing to pay him like a 1st/2nd line C? If you covet O'Reilly so much, why not wait until he is a UFA and pay him that because I bet there are few teams that want to pay him that much. Then you get to keep your pick and your "prospect". I think this team is more than 4 months away from competing though.

[trapezeus]

ok, ok, ok... how about grigs and hodgson for RoR.

i would imagine we get the same kind of finicky player when we trade grigs.

i don't like trading Zads at all. he had one run in with nolan, he seemed to get around it just fine. i think he has potential which he's shown flashes of. oshie is great, but like jam said, he's in his prime and our team is just about to get the pieces together to go for its prime. i like our d and our d prospects.

if they bring in babcock, the culture changes pretty quickly and they all know they are with a future legend.

[mightysimi]

ok, ok, ok... how about grigs and hodgson for RoR.

Haha that is the best one yet!! Hodgson is making like 1M per goal. Good luck getting rid of him. Although people did say good luck getting rid of Clarkson and the Leafs made it work somehow.

[coastal]

Hodgson sucks balls

[Dr. Lecter]

Plus we can afford $6.5 million for him and guarantee him the 2nd line center for the prime of his career.



At least until Reinhart is ready to be in that role

[JATMtheJATM]

ok, ok, ok... how about grigs and hodgson for RoR.

i would imagine we get the same kind of finicky player when we trade grigs.

i don't like trading Zads at all. he had one run in with nolan, he seemed to get around it just fine. i think he has potential which he's shown flashes of. oshie is great, but like jam said, he's in his prime and our team is just about to get the pieces together to go for its prime. i like our d and our d prospects.

if they bring in babcock, the culture changes pretty quickly and they all know they are with a future legend.

exactly. im all for getting better right now, but not at the price of the future. impatience can kill rebuilds, it just makes zero sense to me moving a guy who isnt even 20 with that high of a ceiling for a guy who is going to be 29 this season and will likely be declining once this team starts hitting its stride. i just think thats a extremely careless move.

i also dont like this sudden attitude that once a kid makes even a minor misstep, hes labeled as toxic, a problem, ignorant, ect. are we really going to exile a top prospect because he slept in and was late? happens to guys all the time. the sabres nipped it in the bud, and kids (does anyone remember being a kid? kids make mistakes) need time to mature, on and off the ice.

[Ginger Vitis]

Paul Hamilton (WGR) said yesterday it was Nolan who was the heavy hand in disciplining Zad and Murray was annoyed with Nolan and thought he was too heavy handed in sitting Zad when he did..

[coastal]

Paul Hamilton (WGR) said yesterday it was Nolan who was the heavy hand in disciplining Zad and Murray was annoyed with Nolan and thought he was too heavy handed in sitting Zad when he did..
I picked up on that in Murray's post firing presser... in the same breath he's admitting on air he told Zad he needs to grow up and become a man.

no sh1t Murray you sniveling little ***! that's what Nolan was trying to teach him, but you thought he should what... hold his hand? Reach out and get in his head?

thats an excuse on Murray's part to rationalize actually firing him.

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exactly. im all for getting better right now, but not at the price of the future. impatience can kill rebuilds, it just makes zero sense to me moving a guy who isnt even 20 with that high of a ceiling for a guy who is going to be 29 this season and will likely be declining once this team starts hitting its stride. i just think thats a extremely careless move.

i also dont like this sudden attitude that once a kid makes even a minor misstep, hes labeled as toxic, a problem, ignorant, ect. are we really going to exile a top prospect because he slept in and was late? happens to guys all the time. the sabres nipped it in the bud, and kids (does anyone remember being a kid? kids make mistakes) need time to mature, on and off the ice.
He's supposed to be a ****** hockey player and he acts like a little ***** on and off the ice.

[Dr. Lecter]

He's supposed to be a hockey player in the Juniors or AHL, but the rules ****ed the Sabres over on that.

With that being, said benching him for a few games was fine by me.

[Downinfloflo]

Zad is going to grow up to be the next Chara.

i Can just fee it

You owe me royalties..

[Skooby]

Oh good, look at all the love here now.

[JATMtheJATM]

I picked up on that in Murray's post firing presser... in the same breath he's admitting on air he told Zad he needs to grow up and become a man.

no sh1t Murray you sniveling little ***! that's what Nolan was trying to teach him, but you thought he should what... hold his hand? Reach out and get in his head?

thats an excuse on Murray's part to rationalize actually firing him.

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He's supposed to be a ****** hockey player and he acts like a little ***** on and off the ice.

Ok, it appears your expectations are extremely high, almost like hockey should be run like a military operation or sonething. No room to grow, no room to learn, no room to misstep. That's sure how it seems.

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I picked up on that in Murray's post firing presser... in the same breath he's admitting on air he told Zad he needs to grow up and become a man.

no sh1t Murray you sniveling little ***! that's what Nolan was trying to teach him, but you thought he should what... hold his hand? Reach out and get in his head?

thats an excuse on Murray's part to rationalize actually firing him.

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He's supposed to be a ****** hockey player and he acts like a little ***** on and off the ice.

Ok, it appears your expectations are extremely high, almost like hockey should be run like a military operation or sonething. No room to grow, no room to learn, no room to misstep. That's sure how it seems.

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I picked up on that in Murray's post firing presser... in the same breath he's admitting on air he told Zad he needs to grow up and become a man.

no sh1t Murray you sniveling little ***! that's what Nolan was trying to teach him, but you thought he should what... hold his hand? Reach out and get in his head?

thats an excuse on Murray's part to rationalize actually firing him.

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He's supposed to be a ****** hockey player and he acts like a little ***** on and off the ice.

Ok, it appears your expectations are extremely high, almost like hockey should be run like a military operation or sonething. No room to grow, no room to learn, no room to misstep. That's sure how it seems.

[JATMtheJATM]

The site stroked out on me for a minute.

[JATMtheJATM]

He's supposed to be a hockey player in the Juniors or AHL, but the rules ****ed the Sabres over on that.

With that being, said benching him for a few games was fine by me.

Exactly. I'm fine with a small punishment for being late, it will help him learn. But sit him a game and be done with it.

[coastal]

Ok, it appears your expectations are extremely high, almost like hockey should be run like a military operation or sonething. No room to grow, no room to learn, no room to misstep. That's sure how it seems.my expectations are high.

What about anything I've said is "military"?

learning is the goal of every coach! Why wouldn't I want any player to learn?

[JATMtheJATM]

my expectations are high.

What about anything I've said is "military"?

learning is the goal of every coach! Why wouldn't I want any player to learn?

Learning is good. Casting someone aside for a minor mistake isnt teaching.

[coastal]

Learning is good. Casting someone aside for a minor mistake isnt teaching.
I'm not casting him aside for a minor mistake.

I don't like the way he plays the game and quite frankly don't want to wait around for him to "figure it out". He's an asset that can be utilized to bring in someone who can help this team win...

NOW

[JATMtheJATM]

And I dont agree with that philosophy. At all.

[coastal]

And I dont agree with that philosophy. At all.
You don't agree with winning now?

why not?

[JATMtheJATM]

You don't agree with winning now?

why not?

No, I don't agree with trading youth away in the building stage of a rebuild. At least not key assets. 5 years from now, oshie will be a shell of his former self while zad, reinhart, mceichel, risto, girgs, etc will be in their primes. The team will be filthy awesome.

I don't wanna **** that up. Patience man. It's gonna work. And it's gonna be ****ing awesome. Don't rush this.

The good news is, the sabres can trade away extra picks and mid range prospects and get solid players in return. Maybe not oshie, but good players In a package. I'm fine with moving mid range prospects like compher, hurley, even mccabe maybe for the right deal.

[snow1989]

Learning is good. Casting someone aside for a minor mistake isnt teaching.

I agree, you keep Zads. What is he? 18, 19? A little seasoning and he's likely a top 4 D-man. Some decent locker room leadership to knock his "cockiness" down a peg and teach him what a professional is.

Hodgson? He's 25 and still doesn't seem to get it IMHO. Buy his contract out, or try and package him in a deal ( albeit we'll have to eat some of that contract )

[JATMtheJATM]

I agree, you keep Zads. What is he? 18, 19? A little seasoning and he's likely a top 4 D-man. Some decent locker room leadership to knock his "cockiness" down a peg and teach him what a professional is.

Hodgson? He's 25 and still doesn't seem to get it IMHO. Buy his contract out, or try and package him in a deal ( albeit we'll have to eat some of that contract )

I thought Hodgson was a candidate to keep if the sabres forwards were thin. But sounds like we won't have room.

Zad is a kid and will mature. Most kids do. But he has to learn

[snow1989]

I thought Hodgson was a candidate to keep if the sabres forwards were thin. But sounds like we won't have room.

I'm not sure, but I'm thinking we'll have to be pretty thin to keep him. Because he's under 26, his contract can be bought out for a little over 6 mill. Considering we still owe him 19 mill, but this year paid 1 million a goal from him, well' I just don't know if he stays. I haven't liked his defensive play at all...I know he's supposed to be a scorer, a sniper, but c'mon....stretch your stick out at least and make it look like your poke-checking in your own end. When he came from VAN I really thought a change and different coaching staff would help....just from everything I read, but now, I'm thinking he just doesn't want to work for it

[JATMtheJATM]

Yup. He had a few good seasons. Productive but he just doesn't want to work for it.

[snow1989]

I'm more worried about all the hype over these McDavid and Eichel kids. I've heard "savior", "wayne gretzky lite", and other sky high references. That's all great, but I think it's an awful lot to put on one set of young shoulders. I think people are going to really need to temper their expectations.

[coastal]

No, I don't agree with trading youth away in the building stage of a rebuild. At least not key assets. 5 years from now, oshie will be a shell of his former self while zad, reinhart, mceichel, risto, girgs, etc will be in their primes. The team will be filthy awesome.

I don't wanna **** that up. Patience man. It's gonna work. And it's gonna be ****ing awesome. Don't rush this.

The good news is, the sabres can trade away extra picks and mid range prospects and get solid players in return. Maybe not oshie, but good players In a package. I'm fine with moving mid range prospects like compher, hurley, even mccabe maybe for the right deal.
Girgs, MchEichel, Risto, Reinhart... even Ennis (tip of the hat)... those are the building blocks.

Use Grigs and Zad who I don't view as having that "it" I want as a coach to bring in players that do in order to win now isn't a lack of patience.

Its smart. It's trying to win.

are you that wrapped up in this meme of rebuilding that you can't see that?

[Downinfloflo]

Girgs, MchEichel, Risto, Reinhart... even Ennis (tip of the hat)... those are the building blocks.

Use Grigs and Zad who I don't view as having that "it" I want as a coach to bring in players that do in order to win now isn't a lack of patience.

Its smart. It's trying to win.

are you that wrapped up in this meme of rebuilding that you can't see that?

I really think the kid is more interested in seeing a bunch of CHL players wearing a Sabres jersey then seeing the team actually win.

Look at the East, You need dam near 100 points for the 8th seed, The Blue Jackets and Panthers will be fighting for a spot next season, Things are getting tight, And points are getting harder to get (Parody Baby)

I think Murray is going to do exactly what you're saying, He's not a patient man, Evidence is everywhere to prove that.

ROR is someone I think he will go hard after in the off season(He's another Zigmund), I think they (COL & BUF) already worked out a few trade offers on paper, Just waiting on the draft order to settle.

Once Murray get's McJesus or Drinking Jack on his roster, Everyone outside of the guys you mentioned will be up for grabs including all draft picks if it would help speed things up, Murray want's to win now and shed the stink of the tank from his resume quickly, His ego won't allow for a long rebuild.

ROR or a T.J Oshie type player would land the Sabres 2016 1st round pick (Lotto or not) since they don't really have a roster player they would be willing to move that could help a team NOW, Players are expensive, We had a hand full of trades go down at the deadline, And 7 1st round picks were moved if I'm not mistaken.

With Murray as the GM and the great tank over, From here on out, Don't get to attached to any of these young guys.

[Dr. Lecter]

Girgs, MchEichel, Risto, Reinhart... even Ennis (tip of the hat)... those are the building blocks.

Use Grigs and Zad who I don't view as having that "it" I want as a coach to bring in players that do in order to win now isn't a lack of patience.

Its smart. It's trying to win.

are you that wrapped up in this meme of rebuilding that you can't see that?

It's way to early to give up and Zad and say he doesn't have it. The kid's 19. The Bruins shipped out Sequin at the same age and they look like ****ing morons now.

I get the idea of winning now, but I'm not sure I see this team improving 40+ points next year even with Kane, McEichel, and Pysyk around, as well as whomever else Murray scoops up. And if they do, it's only for a 8th seed. I would rather let this Defense crew grow together. How many times did we talk about the long term potential of Risto-Zad being a long term top defense pairing for this team?

Don't get too impatient.

How stupid were you at 19? Rushing the kid out of here for being a dumbass at 19 is shortsighted and really is too impatient. There are too many demands for instant gratification from people now.

[mightysimi]

I'm not sure, but I'm thinking we'll have to be pretty thin to keep him. Because he's under 26, his contract can be bought out for a little over 6 mill. Considering we still owe him 19 mill, but this year paid 1 million a goal from him, well' I just don't know if he stays. I haven't liked his defensive play at all...I know he's supposed to be a scorer, a sniper, but c'mon....stretch your stick out at least and make it look like your poke-checking in your own end. When he came from VAN I really thought a change and different coaching staff would help....just from everything I read, but now, I'm thinking he just doesn't want to work for it

How do you plan on buying him out? You are going to keep his salary on the books for 4 years for him to not play for the team?

[Dr. Lecter]

How do you plan on buying him out? You are going to keep his salary on the books for 4 years for him to not play for the team?

It would be 8 years and the hit would be relatively small each year

[coastal]

It's way to early to give up and Zad and say he doesn't have it. The kid's 19. The Bruins shipped out Sequin at the same age and they look like ****ing morons now.

I get the idea of winning now, but I'm not sure I see this team improving 40+ points next year even with Kane, McEichel, and Pysyk around, as well as whomever else Murray scoops up. And if they do, it's only for a 8th seed. I would rather let this Defense crew grow together. How many times did we talk about the long term potential of Risto-Zad being a long term top defense pairing for this team?

Don't get too impatient.

How stupid were you at 19? Rushing the kid out of here for being a dumbass at 19 is shortsighted and really is too impatient. There are too many demands for instant gratification from people now.its not just the immaturity.

Its the way he plays the game.

Im not seeing a defensive instinct... game play... he plays like he's ******ed.

Risto is the opposite end of that game play intelligence spectrum.

let someone else "develop" that.

[coastal]

I really think the kid is more interested in seeing a bunch of CHL players wearing a Sabres jersey then seeing the team actually win.

Look at the East, You need dam near 100 points for the 8th seed, The Blue Jackets and Panthers will be fighting for a spot next season, Things are getting tight, And points are getting harder to get (Parody Baby)

I think Murray is going to do exactly what you're saying, He's not a patient man, Evidence is everywhere to prove that.

ROR is someone I think he will go hard after in the off season(He's another Zigmund), I think they (COL & BUF) already worked out a few trade offers on paper, Just waiting on the draft order to settle.

Once Murray get's McJesus or Drinking Jack on his roster, Everyone outside of the guys you mentioned will be up for grabs including all draft picks if it would help speed things up, Murray want's to win now and shed the stink of the tank from his resume quickly, His ego won't allow for a long rebuild.

ROR or a T.J Oshie type player would land the Sabres 2016 1st round pick (Lotto or not) since they don't really have a roster player they would be willing to move that could help a team NOW, Players are expensive, We had a hand full of trades go down at the deadline, And 7 1st round picks were moved if I'm not mistaken.

With Murray as the GM and the great tank over, From here on out, Don't get to attached to any of these young guys.
Agree with all of this.

rhe Sbares need prime 2 top 6 forwards in their prime to compete next year.

They em have the cap space and assets to make that happen. It will too.

[JATMtheJATM]

Girgs, MchEichel, Risto, Reinhart... even Ennis (tip of the hat)... those are the building blocks.

Use Grigs and Zad who I don't view as having that "it" I want as a coach to bring in players that do in order to win now isn't a lack of patience.

Its smart. It's trying to win.

are you that wrapped up in this meme of rebuilding that you can't see that?

are you that wrapped up in "winning now" to see that the roster is much too young to "win now" unless the goal is to simply make the playoffs? its silly and reckless to trade away young assets for players that are nearing 30 at this point. those are moves you make when your team is ready to make the next step. trading away zad for a chance to simply make the playoffs makes little sense at this point.

it makes sense to make a move for an established, young player, like the sabres did to bring in kane, but not someone who will be 29 this up coming season. its why i havent really fought the idea of bringing in ROR, even if i dont think itll happen. hes young and established, and so long as he signs an extension, im fine with it.

[JATMtheJATM]

It's way to early to give up and Zad and say he doesn't have it. The kid's 19. The Bruins shipped out Sequin at the same age and they look like ****ing morons now.

I get the idea of winning now, but I'm not sure I see this team improving 40+ points next year even with Kane, McEichel, and Pysyk around, as well as whomever else Murray scoops up. And if they do, it's only for a 8th seed. I would rather let this Defense crew grow together. How many times did we talk about the long term potential of Risto-Zad being a long term top defense pairing for this team?

Don't get too impatient.

How stupid were you at 19? Rushing the kid out of here for being a dumbass at 19 is shortsighted and really is too impatient. There are too many demands for instant gratification from people now.
you mention seguin:

http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/2015/04/tyler-seguin-will-be-made-a-healthy-scratch-in-season-finale-because-he-was-late-for-practice.html/

this stuff happens. alot. i think to say people are blowing this out of proportion is an understatement.

[coastal]

Way to not address what I am actually saying.

You can thank the tank on Zad. In the games Inwatched after the trade deadline, he cost the team at least a goal in almost very single game.

i admit that Zad is beyond skilled. He's for the root typical size and his strength is only going to get better.

However... Hockey is a 3D game and requires 3D instant creativity to play it really well. Zad can take all that skill and turn it on for a liner achievement. He doesn't see and predict and plan the game spatially... I'm not sure that's a learnable skill, so the question becomes.. are his skills that the over top to compensate for this deficit?

like I said... tradeable asset.

[Dr. Lecter]

Way to not address what I am actually saying.

You can thank the tank on Zad. In the games Inwatched after the trade deadline, he cost the team at least a goal in almost very single game.

i admit that Zad is beyond skilled. He's for the root typical size and his strength is only going to get better.

However... Hockey is a 3D game and requires 3D instant creativity to play it really well. Zad can take all that skill and turn it on for a liner achievement. He doesn't see and predict and plan the game spatially... I'm not sure that's a learnable skill, so the question becomes.. are his skills that the over top to compensate for this deficit?

like I said... tradeable asset.


And he was much better before that.

What he looked like to me was a kid that was in over his head and came crashing down because he was over whelmed.

It's a long season for these kids that usually max out at 50 games and don't travel nearly as much. Mentally and physically they can get taxed very easily. A kid like Risto is the exception.

Does he have a lot to learn and grow? No doubt. Is he tradeable? Certainly. Really, almost anybody is.

But I'm surely not in a rush to move him. Most 19 year olds that were picked 16th are still honing their craft playing with kids their own age or playing on a minor leage team. The season wasn't a disaster and I think placing too much emphasis on his all around game based on this year is a bit premature.

[Ginger Vitis]

Elliott Friedman was saying on WGR today if the Blues go out in the 1st Round the Blues will deal Oshie or Backes

[JATMtheJATM]

And he was much better before that.

What he looked like to me was a kid that was in over his head and came crashing down because he was over whelmed.

It's a long season for these kids that usually max out at 50 games and don't travel nearly as much. Mentally and physically they can get taxed very easily. A kid like Risto is the exception.

Does he have a lot to learn and grow? No doubt. Is he tradeable? Certainly. Really, almost anybody is.

But I'm surely not in a rush to move him. Most 19 year olds that were picked 16th are still honing their craft playing with kids their own age or playing on a minor leage team. The season wasn't a disaster and I think placing too much emphasis on his all around game based on this year is a bit premature.

plus, defensemen take a while to develop. Compare him to most 19 year old d-men, he's fine. Just needs time.

[coastal]

Zad's on the block boys and all you're ****** whining about his potential ain't going to stop it.

[JATMtheJATM]

Zad's on the block boys and all you're ****** whining about his potential ain't going to stop it.
What makes him on the block?

[JATMtheJATM]

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-gm-tim-murray-challenges-nikita-zadorov-to-grow-up/

Speaking of the devil. Sounds like murray wants to see him grow. Not ship him off.

[mightysimi]

Elliott Friedman was saying on WGR today if the Blues go out in the 1st Round the Blues will deal Oshie or Backes

I would take Backes hands down.

[ckg927]

What makes him on the block?

Because a jabroni on a message board said so.

And if it's on the internet, it MUST be true! :D

[coastal]

http://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-gm-tim-murray-challenges-nikita-zadorov-to-grow-up/

Speaking of the devil. Sounds like murray wants to see him grow. Not ship him off.he calls him out in public to "grow up and be a man" and that equates to Murray wanting him to keep Zads around?

Where do u come up with this crap?

I wish you would just try and understand what I'm pointing out to you.

Some people can see the game 100% of the time, react to it, flow with it... play it. Wingers do it in their way... centers in theirs, goalies in theirs. I know defense inside and out from playing it a high level. This skill I'm describing to you... it's either something you have or something you don't... IMO.

and I don't see it in Zad. I'd move him if it got me the right piece.

If not... I'm hoping he "gets it" at some point.

[JATMtheJATM]

he calls him out in public to "grow up and be a man" and that equates to Murray wanting him to keep Zads around?

Where do u come up with this crap?

I wish you would just try and understand what I'm pointing out to you.

Some people can see the game 100% of the time, react to it, flow with it... play it. Wingers do it in their way... centers in theirs, goalies in theirs. I know defense inside and out from playing it a high level. This skill I'm describing to you... it's either something you have or something you don't... IMO.

and I don't see it in Zad. I'd move him if it got me the right piece.

If not... I'm hoping he "gets it" at some point.

where do you come up with this crap that he's on the block? they had an exit interview. Murray told him to work on things. Not much else to it.

As for moving him for the right price, I'm for it. Oshie isn't that price imo.

[Dr. Lecter]

So Murray is going to call the kid out like that, lowering his trade value and then move him?

If he wanted to move him, wouldn't he talk him up?

[snow1989]

Zad's on the block boys and all you're ****** whining about his potential ain't going to stop it.

I don't think the question is.....is Zad's on the block? Minus Kane, Risto, Girgs, Ennis and possibly Borgosian, Larsson and Pysyk ( and I think quite a bit will depend on a full health check ) Hell, just about everyone is on the block.

I just think the question is do you just give up on an 18, 19 yr old that has some maturity issues. I say no.....now can be traded? Of course, but I think you use some diligence and get decent assets back is all.

[mightysimi]

I don't think the question is.....is Zad's on the block? Minus Kane, Risto, Girgs, Ennis and possibly Borgosian, Larsson and Pysyk ( and I think quite a bit will depend on a full health check ) Hell, just about everyone is on the block.

I just think the question is do you just give up on an 18, 19 yr old that has some maturity issues. I say no.....now can be traded? Of course, but I think you use some diligence and get decent assets back is all.

No you wait for him to develop into a good player then ship him out Myers style...

Sorry boys couldn't resist.

[Dr. Who]

No you wait for him to develop into a good player then ship him out Myers style...

Sorry boys couldn't resist.

Let's revisit the trade after we see how Kane and Bogo work out.

[mightysimi]

Let's revisit the trade after we see how Kane and Bogo work out.

We sure can. Honestly it might be surprising if Stafford even stays after this year. We got roster players who are currently playing better than the 2 guys they replaced. Then we got 2 prospects and a 1st round pick. I honestly do hope it works out for Kane as I always liked his game.

[JATMtheJATM]

No you wait for him to develop into a good player then ship him out Myers style...

Sorry boys couldn't resist.

this still chaps my ass.

[coastal]

Stupid Zad arguments aside...

The Eichel edition is on its way. I can't think of anything better than TM giving up his McDavid obsession and focussing on building around Jack. Instead of emptying the cupboard for McDavid, lighten the cupboard and get Jack a mentor who plays the game the way it's supposed to be played. During one the recent Montreal/Ottawa playoff games, a stat was thrown up briefly for those forwards who caused the most turnovers. Mark Stone, Datsyuk, Benn, Tavares and ROR made up the list... if memory serves.

read that list... now tell me adding ROR isn't worth the price of admission. I personally can't think of a smarter way of helping our new franchise player develop... learn from one of the 5 most complete players.

The other way to help in that success... get him a scrapper with hands. TJ Oshie fits that bill in a big way. With Kane on his other side, I would not want to play against that line. My entire focus would be defense. The three of them would create so much space on the ice for each other.

Then throw ROR, Moulson and Ennis on after that stressor... sorry that's just two lines that can bring it all game long.

cmon Murray... time to cash that potential in for a real run at something meaningful.