No way we pay Dareus $100M, time to get the value now

[Skooby]

There's no way we put another $100 M player on our D-line, so it's time to move Dareus for a major impact player. Who do you think we can get with him or which draft pick ??

[Joe Fo Sho]

There's no way we put another $100 M player on our D-line, so it's time to move Dareus for a major impact player. Who do you think we can get with him or which draft pick ??

I'm hoping this way of thinking will stop now that Pegula is the owner. Dareus is the best player on this team...pay him.

[MillsapsBillsFan]

You dont get rid of an elite lineman in his prime. Ever.

You just need to pay him, he'll command a lot of money but he's worth it

[kingJofNYC]

Not sure anyone will give us good assets when they in turn have to pay Marcell $100m dollars.

One thing I do know, we better draft some DTs in this draft. Kyle or Marcell goes down and we are ****ed. Would like to draft Clemson DT Grady Jarrett.

[elltrain22]

You dont get rid of an elite lineman in his prime. Ever.

You just need to pay him, he'll command a lot of money but he's worth it

110% agree!!

[OpIv37]

I'm hoping this way of thinking will stop now that Pegula is the owner. Dareus is the best player on this team...pay him.
Double edged sword. Now that Pegula is the owner, we may not have the cap to keep him.

[Mr. Pink]

There's no way we put another $100 M player on our D-line, so it's time to move Dareus for a major impact player. Who do you think we can get with him or which draft pick ??

I actually agree with this in theory.

The money Dareus will command will make a stupid amount of money invested in the DL, but not signing him causes a major hole. I dunno what kind of trade value you'd have for the guy as Haloti Ngata + a 7th got only a 4th and 5th.

Where is the team with a hole at DT and only a 4th and 5th in return? I'd put Dareus and Ngata in the same class at the position.

[Dr. Lecter]

Double edged sword. Now that Pegula is the owner, we may not have the cap to keep him.

There's plenty of room to keep him, especially if they extend him now.
They will probably actually create room in this year's cap if they work out a deal ahead of time.

[Skooby]

I actually agree with this in theory.

The money Dareus will command will make a stupid amount of money invested in the DL, but not signing him causes a major hole. I dunno what kind of trade value you'd have for the guy as Haloti Ngata + a 7th got only a 4th and 5th.

Where is the team with a hole at DT and only a 4th and 5th in return? I'd put Dareus and Ngata in the same class at the position.

Ngata is 31 years old, you're trying to compare a 24 year old player that's possibly the best at the position to a 31 year guy ?? We are not going to have $100's of Millions just on the D-line, it's complete silly talk.

[Dr. Lecter]

I actually agree with this in theory.

The money Dareus will command will make a stupid amount of money invested in the DL, but not signing him causes a major hole. I dunno what kind of trade value you'd have for the guy as Haloti Ngata + a 7th got only a 4th and 5th.

Where is the team with a hole at DT and only a 4th and 5th in return? I'd put Dareus and Ngata in the same class at the position.

I wouldn't.

Ngata is on the downside of his career. Dareus is approaching his prime.

I couldn't disagree more.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Double edged sword. Now that Pegula is the owner, we may not have the cap to keep him.

Make room.

[better days]

Double edged sword. Now that Pegula is the owner, we may not have the cap to keep him.

This is where Littman proves his worth.

You keep GOOD players, there are ways to work the cap, especially if you have CASH money you can deal with.

The Broncos kept John Elway by giving him car dealerships.

[emoulds80]

gilmore- replaceable, bradham- replaceable, glenn- replaceable

you dont let dareus go, not a top 5 dlineman entering his prime soon. and we will extend him

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we dont have the cap of a franchise qb, we can sign him

[OpIv37]

There's plenty of room to keep him, especially if they extend him now.
They will probably actually create room in this year's cap if they work out a deal ahead of time.

The cap isn't just about this year. Look at next year- Clay counts for some absurd amount of cap space because we structured the deal to make it too expensive for Miami to match when they have to pay Suh next year

Yes, restructuring helps but in the end cap space is still finite. And restructuring often means delaying cap hits, but sooner or later the cap hit will come.

[better days]

The cap isn't just about this year. Look at next year- Clay counts for some absurd amount of cap space because we structured the deal to make it too expensive for Miami to match when they have to pay Suh next year

Yes, restructuring helps but in the end cap space is still finite. And restructuring often means delaying cap hits, but sooner or later the cap hit will come.

And the Bills can restructure Clay's contract as well if need be now that he is a Bill.

There are plenty of ways to work the cap.

Finally after all these years, it is GREAT to be worried about not having enough cap room.

[EDS]

The Bills are going to have to restructure/cut a bunch of guys, but it would be stupid not to resign Dareus despite the big paydate.

[emoulds80]

ill concede this, id be open to trading him. if, if i can get multiple high picks.

like a 1, 2, 4 this year, and a 1 and 3 next year

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id be open to it if i got tons of picks, but i dont see it happening.

[Buddo]

Ngata is 31 years old, you're trying to compare a 24 year old player that's possibly the best at the position to a 31 year guy ?? We are not going to have $100's of Millions just on the D-line, it's complete silly talk.

The sill talk is coming from you. Read the above again, and realise what you said. Dareus will stay, even if it means others go, the guy is too good and too young, not to keep.

[better days]

ill concede this, id be open to trading him. if, if i can get multiple high picks.

like a 1, 2, 4 this year, and a 1 and 3 next year

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id be open to it if i got tons of picks, but i dont see it happening.

I would be open to that as well, but as you said, not happening.

A team will not give up that much for a DT no matter how good he is.

And if a team did, they would have to pay Dareus just as the Bills will have to as well.

[emoulds80]

The sill talk is coming from you. Read the above again, and realise what you said. Dareus will stay, even if it means others go, the guy is too good and too young, not to keep.

what if you got like a 1,2,4 this year
and 1-3 next year?

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I would be open to that as well, but as you said, not happening.

A team will not give up that much for a DT no matter how good he is.

And if a team did, they would have to pay Dareus just as the Bills will have to as well.




a team thats close, or a dumb team like oakland might... actually, if a team offered picks like that, id do it.

[emoulds80]

the colts seem to be in desperation mode, id give them a call right now... jmo

id also call a team that has tons of picks obviously

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plus you could sign a solid vet to replace him this year right away, and draft a couple studs early on the dline. id be for it

[Dr. Lecter]

The cap isn't just about this year. Look at next year- Clay counts for some absurd amount of cap space because we structured the deal to make it too expensive for Miami to match when they have to pay Suh next year

Yes, restructuring helps but in the end cap space is still finite. And restructuring often means delaying cap hits, but sooner or later the cap hit will come.
Yes - and they can convert that salary money to signing bonus next year and stretch it out so there is plenty of room next year.

[The Jokeman]

The cap isn't just about this year. Look at next year- Clay counts for some absurd amount of cap space because we structured the deal to make it too expensive for Miami to match when they have to pay Suh next year

Yes, restructuring helps but in the end cap space is still finite. And restructuring often means delaying cap hits, but sooner or later the cap hit will come.
So you do what the Dolphins did with Suh you give Dareus most of his guaranteed money in the second or third year of his contract. Whaley and company have shown they know who to keep and who to let go thus far (see Byrd). So I give them the benefit of the doubt toss in we have to re-nogiate Mario's deal. It's just a matter of time but I have faith in Whaley etc. as we've improved under his eye and thus far his free agent moves have been more positive than negative to date.

[emoulds80]

either way, they need to add a dlineman early this year

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stefan charles is the only real starter type as the backup, wynn and bryant are rotational guys who are just meh, they are okay and can hold their own, but its a big drop off

[The Jokeman]

either way, they need to add a dlineman early this year

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stefan charles is the only real starter type as the backup, wynn and bryant are rotational guys who are just meh, they are okay and can hold their own, but its a big drop off
I agree we need a 5 tech DE or a true NT yet not sure any of those type will be available with our first pick but there are a few developmental guys I'd take later in the draft to serve the rotation this year and maybe step up in 2016 when Kyle and Mario are hitting 32.

[OpIv37]

Yes - and they can convert that salary money to signing bonus next year and stretch it out so there is plenty of room next year.

We can't just keep stretching everyone out to infinity

Then you end up being the Redskins and still having dead cap money for Deion Sanders after he goes to two other teams, retires and starts a TV Career.

[Dr. Lecter]

We can't just keep stretching everyone out to infinity

I didn't say anything remotely close to that. I talked about one player and his contract.

Don't use a strawman argument.

[Skooby]

We can't just keep stretching everyone out to infinity

Then you end up being the Redskins and still having dead cap money for Deion Sanders after he goes to two other teams, retires and starts a TV Career.

Then if we do acquire a franchise QB like Rivers, Dareus becomes a luxury we can't afford. Rivers is going to command $18-$20 M a season.

[justasportsfan]

There's no way we put another $100 M player on our D-line, so it's time to move Dareus for a major impact player. Who do you think we can get with him or which draft pick ??

Yes way! Have you seen what a D can do to a Peyton Manning?

[emoulds80]

I agree we need a 5 tech DE or a true NT yet not sure any of those type will be available with our first pick but there are a few developmental guys I'd take later in the draft to serve the rotation this year and maybe step up in 2016 when Kyle and Mario are hitting 32.

carl davis is really really good. tremendous power and very stout vs the run. not any real pass rush, but hes really good. like a more athletic pat williams

[emoulds80]

henry anderson is good, jarrett, gabe wright

[OpIv37]

I didn't say anything remotely close to that. I talked about one player and his contract.

Don't use a strawman argument.

It's not a straw man. We already restructured McCoy and I believe a few others as well. If it was one guy, sure, no problem. But it's more than that and it's disingenuous to not acknowledge that

[Dr. Lecter]

It's not a straw man. We already restructured McCoy and I believe a few others as well. If it was one guy, sure, no problem. But it's more than that and it's disingenuous to not acknowledge that

McCoy wasn't a straight restructure - it was also an extension.

And yes - it's a strawman when you say "everybody to infinity" when we are looking at a limited number of players.

Or are you saying that other teams don't restructure more than one deal?

[trapezeus]

the bills are win now mode. he's going to give us a chance to make the playoffs. without him, there is ahuge decline in our defensive performance.

i would rather have him this year, and if he sucks or wants out, fine. we can deal with that then. but he's under contract, he seems to want to play for us. so he stays.

[OpIv37]

McCoy wasn't a straight restructure - it was also an extension.

And yes - it's a strawman when you say "everybody to infinity" when we are looking at a limited number of players.

Or are you saying that other teams don't restructure more than one deal?

Don't know or care what other teams do. We are right up against the cap and are restructuring deals to delay cap hits. Sooner or later they WILL hit and there is no denying it.

And the reason I made the infinity comment is because every single time a player becomes available or needs to be resigned, people on this board say "well we can just restructure" over and over. Yes, we can- to a point. No one seems to be willing to acknowledge that restructing can only clear up so much cap space.

[Skooby]

Don't know or care what other teams do. We are right up against the cap and are restructuring deals to delay cap hits. Sooner or later they WILL hit and there is no denying it.

And the reason I made the infinity comment is because every single time a player becomes available or needs to be resigned, people on this board say "well we can just restructure" over and over. Yes, we can- to a point. No one seems to be willing to acknowledge that restructing can only clear up so much cap space.

We also need a real QB, which is going to come at a major cost that'll need to be addressed.

[DraftBoy]

I've been as critical as anybody this offseason about the ways the Bills spent (specifically the Clay contract which remains terrible) but if the Bills can redo Clay and redo Mario the money should be there to keep Dareus without question. The only issue will be that restructures are a two way street so anybody assuming it will be easy is as wrong as those assuming that Dareus is goner.

[SpikedLemonade]

I like this thread better when you started it on The Stadium Wall.

Did you start it at The Range as well?

Anywhere else?

Do you have a program set up where you can automatically start one thread on 3 or more message boards or do you need to spread stupid manually?

[BertSquirtgum]

Double edged sword. Now that Pegula is the owner, we may not have the cap to keep him.

I would release Mario before letting Marcell go.

[BertSquirtgum]

Dareus for Rivers. Get er done DougE.Fresh.

[Mr. Pink]

Ngata is 31 years old, you're trying to compare a 24 year old player that's possibly the best at the position to a 31 year guy ?? We are not going to have $100's of Millions just on the D-line, it's complete silly talk.

Dareus will be 26 this season.

The only reason I put Dareus and Ngata in the same class is because Ngata is 5 1/2 years older.

Yes, that means I think Ngata is a better player.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Dareus will be 26 this season.

No he won't.

Haloti is more than 6 years older than Dareus.

Not that I really care about who is better, but Dareus has a long career ahead of him, barring something catastrophic.

[better days]

Dareus will be 26 this season.

The only reason I put Dareus and Ngata in the same class is because Ngata is 5 1/2 years older.

Yes, that means I think Ngata is a better player.

You are CRAZY.

Ngata was never as good as Dareus & Ngata is about to fall off a cliff.

In 9 years, Ngata has 25.5 sacks. 5.5 is the most sacks Ngata has ever had in one year.

In 4 years, less than half the time Ngata has played, Dareus has 28.5 sacks. 3 more sacks than Ngata. And 5.5 is the least amount of sacks Dareus has ever had in a year.

[better days]

No he won't.

Haloti is more than 6 years older than Dareus.

Not that I really care about who is better, but Dareus has a long career ahead of him, barring something catastrophic.

Dareus just turned 25 in March of this year.

[Mr. Pink]

Dareus just turned 25 in March of this year.

NFL.com has his birthday as Nov 18 1989 as does CBS and ESPN which is what I went by with the 26 this year part.

Ngata is a true run stuff NT which is a premium in the NFL to teams who run a 3-4 base.

[Mahdi]

Interior DL who gets double digit sacks and stuffs the run.

He's worth more than Mario Williams. Not to mention he's still only 25.

[better days]

NFL.com has his birthday as Nov 18 1989 as does CBS and ESPN which is what I went by with the 26 this year part.

Ngata is a true run stuff NT which is a premium in the NFL to teams who run a 3-4 base.

Well, they are wrong, just as you are wrong about Ngata being better than him. Dareus was born March 13 1990.

And Dareus can stuff the run as well as get to the passer, making him a better DT than Ngata, it is after all a passing league.

And Ngata has been a very good DT, great move by the Lions to pick him up after losing Suh, but Dareus is MUCH BETTER than Ngata.

[Joe Fo Sho]

NFL.com has his birthday as Nov 18 1989 as does CBS and ESPN

That's weird, I got his age by wikipedia...which is probably wrong. I'm gonna go edit his wiki to show that he's only 21, then you're going to have to agree that Dareus is better having accomplished so much at such a young age.

[better days]

I expect Dareus to be in the HOF after his career ends.

The player he reminds me of is Tampa HOF DT Warren Sapp.

It would be STUPID to not keep Dareus his entire career.

And by the way, Sapp has had his share of Stupidity in his life.

[OpIv37]

I would release Mario before letting Marcell go.

I agree. Nothing against Mario but we couldn't beat the ****ing Raiders without Dareus. Hopefully it's a choice we won't have to make. Mario has a few good years left.

[justasportsfan]

the cap limit is supposed to increase by another 10(?) million next year I believe. And once we get rid of Jeremy Towns , Rod Sweeting and Deonte Thompson, we should be able to afford Peyton and Rivers at the same time.

[better days]

We can't just keep stretching everyone out to infinity

Then you end up being the Redskins and still having dead cap money for Deion Sanders after he goes to two other teams, retires and starts a TV Career.

Well, you can pay & extend young guys to infinity.

You just can not do it with OLD guys.

And Dion was OLD when the Skins signed him.

[TacklingDummy]

$250+ Million invested in just the Dline doesn't win championships, Quarterbacks do.

[TacklingDummy]

I agree. Nothing against Mario but we couldn't beat the ****ing Raiders without Dareus. Hopefully it's a choice we won't have to make. Mario has a few good years left.

But we did beat the Super Bowl Champions New England Patriots without him.

Dareus had 0 sacks the final 7 games of the season and 14 combined tackles. Let's not rush into giving someone 100+ million dollars who's clearly not worth it.

[BillsImpossible]

But we did beat the Super Bowl Champions New England Patriots without him.

Dareus had 0 sacks the final 7 games of the season and 14 combined tackles. Let's not rush into giving someone 100+ million dollars who's clearly not worth it.

Awesome post, TD. Dareus' play fell off a cliff last year. I wonder why?

[Ingtar33]

There's no way we put another $100 M player on our D-line, so it's time to move Dareus for a major impact player. Who do you think we can get with him or which draft pick ??

yes, lets get rid of a young probowl defensive tackle, one of the most dominating inside forces the league has seen since Warren Sapp, just as he's hitting is prime.

Its this type of thinking that's lead the bills to 15 straight years with no playoff births. this would be like deciding in 1990 to trade Bruce Smith because "we need to get value for him now!!!" And yes i just put Darius and Bruce Smith in the same sentence.

[better days]

$250+ Million invested in just the Dline doesn't win championships, Quarterbacks do.

So you think Wilson had more to do with the Seahawks winning the Super Bowl than their defense did in 2013?

[BertSquirtgum]

So you think Wilson had more to do with the Seahawks winning the Super Bowl than their defense did in 2013?

Yes

[better days]

Yes

Well, you are wrong.

[Night Train]

There's plenty of room to keep him, especially if they extend him now.
They will probably actually create room in this year's cap if they work out a deal ahead of time.

He's the one guy Mario Williams would restructure for.

[Skooby]

But we did beat the Super Bowl Champions New England Patriots without him.

Dareus had 0 sacks the final 7 games of the season and 14 combined tackles. Let's not rush into giving someone 100+ million dollars who's clearly not worth it.

No two guys on the D-line are worth a 1/4 Billion, you guys are nuts thinking we will keep him.

[BertSquirtgum]

No two guys on the D-line are worth a 1/4 Billion, you guys are nuts thinking we will keep him.

It won't be a 1/4 billion by the time restructuring is done. Argument is moot.

[TacklingDummy]

So you think Wilson had more to do with the Seahawks winning the Super Bowl than their defense did in 2013?
Yes, without him they don't make it to the Super Bowl.

[better days]

No two guys on the D-line are worth a 1/4 Billion, you guys are nuts thinking we will keep him.

IF you are right, then Mario would be the one to go, NOT Dareus.

I am calling it now. Dareus will be a HOF player.

[better days]

Yes, without him they don't make it to the Super Bowl.

Nonsense, The Seahawks would have WON the Super Bowl with any average QB.

The Hawks would not have made the Super Bowl without that GREAT DEFENSE.

I like Wilson, but if you put him on a team with an average defense, that team goes NOWHERE.