I'm not going full-blown rant, but...

[YardRat]

I know, I know...

They haven't even put pads on yet...it's way too early to discount some positive things going our way...opinions don't matter nearly as much as results, and the preseason doesn't even start for another three months...everybody (players, coaches, front office) still has the opportunity to prove any naysayers 'wrong'...they are the ones getting paid, not us, so they must know something...

...but...

I can't remember the last time I was this disappointed over what transpired over an off season. Right from the start...

--Didn't hire the best coach for the situation we ended the season with.
--Messing with a defense that was outright dominant last year, with the promise that it will be even better.
--Spent a boat-load of money in free agency on shiny new toys that might not mean **** without an oline or dline.
--Basically ignored 'better fixes' for the most glaring needs roster-wise (offensive line and QB, arguably safety)
--Created more holes than they filled
--Possibly wasted an entire draft adding talent to areas that were least in need of upgrading.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but feeling that instead of moving forward, we're moving back. And it isn't just 'two back, one forward', it's two back for coaching, two back for free agency, and two back for the draft.

[SpikedLemonade]

Perhaps but the floor for this team is a relatively high 8-8. I don't see them losing 9 games.

[feldspar]

Where did we go when there were drafts you DID like?

[MikeInRoch]

I'd really like to hear what your "better fixes" were for OL and QB.

[YardRat]

Where did we go when there were drafts you DID like?

Four straight Super Bowls.

[swiper]

I'll tell you that the guy they should have coaxed from Pittsburgh was named LeBeau, not Whaley.

[feldspar]

Four straight Super Bowls.

Brilliant answer.

You haven't liked a Bills draft while it unfolded in 25 years or more?

[YardRat]

I'd really like to hear what your "better fixes" were for OL and QB.

Granted, QB is a tough situation this off-season, I've even argued that myself. Cassell may be the best we could hope for, no idea why we picked up Taylor, and didn't really expect to draft one this year anyway.

I would have liked to see at least more effort than the two guys they targeted in free agency (as they said themselves, IIRC) to acquire another vet olineman (Carpenter, Wisniewski, etc) and prefer they take more chances on oline in the draft (Miller is probably the best pick ATM, but would have taken Fisher or Marpet instead of corner-actually, it's not oline, but I would have run to the podium for Jordan Phillips for D-or Myers/Thompson instead of a RB).

We spent a lot of money in free agency on the 'fixings', the draft should have been mostly about the 'beef'.

[YardRat]

Brilliant answer.

You haven't liked a Bills draft while it unfolded in 25 years or more?

I have my moments, especially when gifted softballs over the center of the plate.

I liked last year's draft, actually.

[Night Train]

I would have liked another OL and maybe the 7th rounder longshot is that but outside of that, this draft wasn't too bad.

I understand the Darby pick ( BTW, he was at the stadium today for fanfest ) even though I wanted OT Fisher.. but Miller, Williams and O'Leary are 3 guys we could defintely use.

FA was a grade of A, IMO.

This isn't a team coming off a 3-13 season. They needed better coaching and another 1-2 wins. Hard to not like wha'ts going on.

[YardRat]

I 'get' the Darby pick also, to a point. He's already replaced Brooks, and will probably supplant McKelvin or Graham next season. Would have preferred somebody at another position that I think had a better chance of a bigger contribution this season.

Hopefully Miller can produce this season, he has the best opportunity to step in. Williams means either FJax (better not, IMO), Boobie (would prefer he stayed) or Brown (OK, not a big deal but a wasted draft pick exchanged) are gone, posiibly two of them. I'd be surprised if O'Leary ever contributes any more than Gragg has.

[jimmifli]

2001 Was a pretty good draft.

[Meathead]

freddies gone. deal wid it

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I liked most of the offseason actually, but the draft is arguably our weakest since 2000, and that O Line still really really bothers me and its going to bite us in the ass.

[jpdex12]

I know, I know...

They haven't even put pads on yet...it's way too early to discount some positive things going our way...opinions don't matter nearly as much as results, and the preseason doesn't even start for another three months...everybody (players, coaches, front office) still has the opportunity to prove any naysayers 'wrong'...they are the ones getting paid, not us, so they must know something...

...but...

I can't remember the last time I was this disappointed over what transpired over an off season. Right from the start...

--Didn't hire the best coach for the situation we ended the season with.
--Messing with a defense that was outright dominant last year, with the promise that it will be even better.
--Spent a boat-load of money in free agency on shiny new toys that might not mean **** without an oline or dline.
--Basically ignored 'better fixes' for the most glaring needs roster-wise (offensive line and QB, arguably safety)
--Created more holes than they filled
--Possibly wasted an entire draft adding talent to areas that were least in need of upgrading.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but feeling that instead of moving forward, we're moving back. And it isn't just 'two back, one forward', it's two back for coaching, two back for free agency, and two back for the draft.

Idiot thread

[Mace]

I know, I know...

They haven't even put pads on yet...it's way too early to discount some positive things going our way...opinions don't matter nearly as much as results, and the preseason doesn't even start for another three months...everybody (players, coaches, front office) still has the opportunity to prove any naysayers 'wrong'...they are the ones getting paid, not us, so they must know something...

...but...

I can't remember the last time I was this disappointed over what transpired over an off season. Right from the start...

--Didn't hire the best coach for the situation we ended the season with.
--Messing with a defense that was outright dominant last year, with the promise that it will be even better.
--Spent a boat-load of money in free agency on shiny new toys that might not mean **** without an oline or dline.
--Basically ignored 'better fixes' for the most glaring needs roster-wise (offensive line and QB, arguably safety)
--Created more holes than they filled
--Possibly wasted an entire draft adding talent to areas that were least in need of upgrading.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but feeling that instead of moving forward, we're moving back. And it isn't just 'two back, one forward', it's two back for coaching, two back for free agency, and two back for the draft.

Sorry about the wall of text but I have a lot to say.

Well...I was always way more continuously antagonized during the Jauron offseasons...but I sort of waffle between your viewpoint and finding some wee optimism in changing my perspective.

I wasn't in favor of the Ryan hire, but it will be a lively, colorful ride. Starting with that, they followed a committed path toward a plan I can at least be impressed with because I see a methodical process.
- uncertainty at QB, find a play action short range guy to work a running game with some occasional smarts for change of pace in case it's not Manuel, or an upside athletic "maybe". Cassel is next best at the former if you can't have Alex Smith, and Tyrod Taylor fits the athletic "maybe" well enough. If you mean to go run heavy, the guy is not going to be slinging, soooo....
-you build a running game. First, hire the best guy you can to do it. No one better than Roman. Give him a line coach that suits his plan, enter Kromer. Those two add a plus to available linemen. Fetch a nasty run blocker, enter Incognito. A proven fullback would help, Felton. Probably need a proven scary RB, here's Shady. Run blocking is easier than pass protection, you aren't going to be passing much but if you do....
-get weapons to draw coverage so teams can't stack the box and present options if they do. Clay, and Harvin to add to Watkins and Woods. Now you have a bunch of weapons that can create opportunity when it presents itself, what do you do then with your draft...
-well if all of the above are working, and you feel your crew will be fine for it, you re-sign your important defensive FA, welcome back Jerry Hughes, to cater to your HC's defensive wizard rep by keeping the best toys he can play with. Then you have to draft...
-you want upside depth, ST talent, which gives the rooks a chance to earn the chops and play for you if you can motivate them. Motivating them is RyanFest, he lives and breathes it. He loves him some press/man corner, Darby, hey here's a solid running game mauler with upside in Miller. Well now you're in round 5, if your motivator can motivate, here's a bruising if raw between the tackles guy in Williams, and he has his chance to get serious if he wants to. Steward well, lb depth and some special teams freshening, adequate "maybe". Throw in a TE with a motor and desire if not the best skills, but soft hands and a competitor mentality.

For better or worse, they made a plan and are working it with a focus. Ryan does not want a two gap Fairbanks-Bullough NT, his line is set in his head, as are his LB's, and Rex does defense, it's just what he does. The O-line has less chance to fail in a run offense, as does the QB, whichever it is. The O-line needs to plow to set up the occasional opportunity for big plays. They aren't going to be a high powered gunslinger offense.

Oh the whole thing could turn out woeful, but it won't be because they weren't on the same page which to me, gives it a marginally better chance of working if Roman can help Ryan tune his game day management, and after working under Harbaugh, should have some exp with volatile.

For better or worse, they went all in on what they thing they have, need, intend and mean to do. There's going to be plenty of time to get aggravated down the road. No point in doing it now when they haven't even shown how well they can apply it all yet, imho.

[MikeInRoch]

Granted, QB is a tough situation this off-season, I've even argued that myself. Cassell may be the best we could hope for, no idea why we picked up Taylor, and didn't really expect to draft one this year anyway.

I would have liked to see at least more effort than the two guys they targeted in free agency (as they said themselves, IIRC) to acquire another vet olineman (Carpenter, Wisniewski, etc) and prefer they take more chances on oline in the draft (Miller is probably the best pick ATM, but would have taken Fisher or Marpet instead of corner-actually, it's not oline, but I would have run to the podium for Jordan Phillips for D-or Myers/Thompson instead of a RB).

We spent a lot of money in free agency on the 'fixings', the draft should have been mostly about the 'beef'.

I like how you know just how much "effort" we put in.

[HHURRICANE]

I love the hiring of Rex Ryan. It's ridiculous to say our defense won't be better when Ryan had a better defense with far less talent.

The off season was terrific and the Bills tried incredibly hard to add oline vets so it's stupid to say they didn't try. Adding proven vets seems smarter than adding unknown rookies in a weak draft.

The draft was a disappointment and I found it interesting that Green Bay traded up to get Huntley. Whaley did say they weren't adding starters necessarily but contributors. Run oriented guards, blocking TE's, secondary help, and special teams seem like needs to me.

[YardRat]

I like how you know just how much "effort" we put in.

I referenced a comment made by the front office.

[Historian]

I think you're way off base on this one, Rat.

Watch us open 2-0.

[The Jokeman]

I think you're way off base on this one, Rat.

Watch us open 2-0.

I think we need to be at least 1-1 to be a playoff contender.

[feldspar]

Seriously, how excited were any of you about this year's draft? This board was incredibly silent about it in the months leading up to the draft. Because the Bills didn't have a first round pick, in large part. We had the 50th, 81st, and then the 155th picks...and so forth. Did you really think that any of those picks we're going to make or break this season?

Some *****es pretend to be scouts, and they become more and more lost the deeper into the draft it goes. We got a Guard, didn't we? LOL, so what's the problem? We didn't draft a major need in round two? Is that the major problem? No Petty? I don't remember so much *****ing about players drafted rounds five through seven...those guys are all guys that most complainers know very little about in general.

We spent our first and fourth round picks before...let's hear some more complaining about that. The Bills did a lot in free agency. The roster isn't set yet, either. Don't know what some people expected in this draft. If half these players turn out to be good players, how good of a draft would this be?

[Mace]

Seriously, how excited were any of you about this year's draft? This board was incredibly silent about it in the months leading up to the draft. Because the Bills didn't have a first round pick, in large part. We had the 50th, 81st, and then the 155th picks...and so forth. Did you really think that any of those picks we're going to make or break this season?

Some *****es pretend to be scouts, and they become more and more lost the deeper into the draft it goes. We got a Guard, didn't we? LOL, so what's the problem? We didn't draft a major need in round two? Is that the major problem? No Petty? I don't remember so much *****ing about players drafted rounds five through seven...those guys are all guys that most complainers know very little about in general.

We spent our first and fourth round picks before...let's hear some more complaining about that. The Bills did a lot in free agency. The roster isn't set yet, either. Don't know what some people expected in this draft. If half these players turn out to be good players, how good of a draft would this be?

I didn't really have a clue about this years draft until I began obsessively running that simulator, which kind of helped me to "see" the players in looking them up. I think they did about what I expected in this draft, some talent and some decent "maybe"'s.

But don't get me started about the Watkins trade in what we spent to get the 46th ranked guy in receptions, 24th or so in yards, who we could have gotten instead over two drafts, and how you don't get a ivory grips for your squirt gun.

[feldspar]

...how you don't get a ivory grips for your squirt gun.

Now that's upsetting.

[Mace]

Now that's upsetting.

I've done this man. The issue makes me crazy. Some 10 year old kid punk took it and roughed me up though I was 32. That was my bestest squirt gun. Then he kept dousing me with it. He still does and laughs at me though it was decades ago. I can't go outside for wondering if he'll soak me again with my expensively modified toy, even in the winter. I have strong opinions on the matter. Punk damn kids.

[YardRat]

I think you're way off base on this one, Rat.

Watch us open 2-0.

I hope you're right Hist...I'm more than willing to eat crow.

[YardRat]

Seriously, how excited were any of you about this year's draft? This board was incredibly silent about it in the months leading up to the draft. Because the Bills didn't have a first round pick, in large part. We had the 50th, 81st, and then the 155th picks...and so forth. Did you really think that any of those picks we're going to make or break this season?

Some *****es pretend to be scouts, and they become more and more lost the deeper into the draft it goes. We got a Guard, didn't we? LOL, so what's the problem? We didn't draft a major need in round two? Is that the major problem? No Petty? I don't remember so much *****ing about players drafted rounds five through seven...those guys are all guys that most complainers know very little about in general.

We spent our first and fourth round picks before...let's hear some more complaining about that. The Bills did a lot in free agency. The roster isn't set yet, either. Don't know what some people expected in this draft. If half these players turn out to be good players, how good of a draft would this be?

I was excited going into the coaching search.
I was excited about the start of free agency.
I was excited about the draft.

I've been following this team for 45 years, and for (probably far too) many of them have been excited and optimistic about the upcoming season. I'm not usually a Negative Nancy, and more often than not give the benefit of the doubt to new players, coaches etc. I'm allowed to have an off year now and then and voice my displeasure.

[Mace]

I hope you're right Hist...I'm more than willing to eat crow.

Me too, but better if you do. Don't let punk kids near your bestest toys though. Darn punk kids. "Haha I doused you for the 23rd year in a row"...."come back here you, I know your family..." Anyway.

[justasportsfan]

I know, I know...

They haven't even put pads on yet...it's way too early to discount some positive things going our way...opinions don't matter nearly as much as results, and the preseason doesn't even start for another three months...everybody (players, coaches, front office) still has the opportunity to prove any naysayers 'wrong'...they are the ones getting paid, not us, so they must know something...



I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but feeling that instead of moving forward, we're moving back. And it isn't just 'two back, one forward', it's two back for coaching, two back for free agency, and two back for the draft.

2 steps back for coaching? Are you serious? I wasn't sure about Rexy being a Superbowl head coach but really , 2 steps back from Marrone?

Who did we bring in last year in FA that makes us two steps back in comparison to resigning Hughes, Shady , Clay, Harvin, Cassel and Tyrod. Cassel = Orton.

Your worst post ever Yardie.

[Oaf]

That RB pick pissed me off, BPA/5th round be damned. I'm a fan of Bryce Brown, Freddie, and McCoy. Literally any other position would have made more sense.

[YardRat]

2 steps back for coaching? Are you serious? I wasn't sure about Rexy being a Superbowl head coach but really , 2 steps back from Marrone?

Who did we bring in last year in FA that makes us two steps back in comparison to resigning Hughes, Shady , Clay, Harvin, Cassel and Tyrod. Cassel = Orton.

Your worst post ever Yardie.

Thanks, I try to out-do my previous bests and worsts from time to time.

Regarding coaching, I'm not just looking at Ryan vs Marrone, I'd take Ryan too. Roman and Kroger over Hackett and Morris also. The rest of the staff? Meh. Losing Schwartz was huge IMO, and I really don't like the dragging along of almost the entire Jets previous staff. Bobby April III, Tony Sparano Jr Jr, Sanjay Lal? Uggh.

Regarding free agency, we spent a lot of money on flashy toys, but I'm more of a substance over style kind of guy.

[BertSquirtgum]

I know, I know...

They haven't even put pads on yet...it's way too early to discount some positive things going our way...opinions don't matter nearly as much as results, and the preseason doesn't even start for another three months...everybody (players, coaches, front office) still has the opportunity to prove any naysayers 'wrong'...they are the ones getting paid, not us, so they must know something...

...but...

I can't remember the last time I was this disappointed over what transpired over an off season. Right from the start...

--Didn't hire the best coach for the situation we ended the season with.
--Messing with a defense that was outright dominant last year, with the promise that it will be even better.
--Spent a boat-load of money in free agency on shiny new toys that might not mean **** without an oline or dline.
--Basically ignored 'better fixes' for the most glaring needs roster-wise (offensive line and QB, arguably safety)
--Created more holes than they filled
--Possibly wasted an entire draft adding talent to areas that were least in need of upgrading.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but feeling that instead of moving forward, we're moving back. And it isn't just 'two back, one forward', it's two back for coaching, two back for free agency, and two back for the draft.

No

[justasportsfan]

Thanks, I try to out-do my previous bests and worsts from time to time.

Regarding coaching, I'm not just looking at Ryan vs Marrone, I'd take Ryan too. Roman and Kroger over Hackett and Morris also. The rest of the staff? Meh. Losing Schwartz was huge IMO, and I really don't like the dragging along of almost the entire Jets previous staff. Bobby April III, Tony Sparano Jr Jr, Sanjay Lal? Uggh.

Regarding free agency, we spent a lot of money on flashy toys, but I'm more of a substance over style kind of guy.

I usually agree with your posts but you're not making sense when saying we've taken 2 steps back. I liked Schwartz too but he wasn't going to be here long term if we hired someone else as HC. He would have moved on as HC and then what happens to the d?

At least with Rexy we'll always have a top 10 D for as long as he's here

Yes we spent a lot of money but we've upgraded across the board. Cassel to Orton is a wash but Shady is better than Spiller. Harvin is better than that speedster we cut. I think Clay may be better than Chandler
I don't see how we took a couple of steps back. Sorry

[YardRat]

I usually agree with your posts but you're not making sense when saying we've taken 2 steps back. I liked Schwartz too but he wasn't going to be here long term if we hired someone else as HC. He would have moved on as HC and then what happens to the d?

At least with Rexy we'll always have a top 10 D for as long as he's here

Yes we spent a lot of money but we've upgraded across the board. Cassel to Orton is a wash but Shady is better than Spiller. Harvin is better than that speedster we cut. I think Clay may be better than Chandler
I don't see how we took a couple of steps back. Sorry

No need to be sorry, we're allowed to disagree.

[feldspar]

I was excited going into the coaching search.
I was excited about the start of free agency.
I was excited about the draft.

I've been following this team for 45 years, and for (probably far too) many of them have been excited and optimistic about the upcoming season. I'm not usually a Negative Nancy, and more often than not give the benefit of the doubt to new players, coaches etc. I'm allowed to have an off year now and then and voice my displeasure.

You're allowed to say whatever the **** you want.

I just don't see why this draft would upset anyone...is it because we drafted a CB in the second round when that wasn't perceived as a need? Honestly...what kind of draft would have made you happy? A good player is a good pick, and I've never been a fan of over-reaching based on need. There already IS a lot of talent on this team, so turn that frown upside-down.

Fifth round on is pure scouting territory, and we only had two picks before that. I really doubt very many people around these parts are familiar with too many of these mid-to-late prospects without the help of their old pal Google.

[Goobylal]

I'm actually glad they drafted a CB. McKelvin is getting long in the tooth, Robey regressed last year, and Cockrell didn't show me much. Graham is probably a stud S so this allows him to move there. They addressed OL with the 3rd round pick of Miller. Got a steal with O'Leary. Got a potential super sleeper with Lewis. And got some talent with Williams. Steward I don't know about so I won't comment.

[YardRat]

You're allowed to say whatever the **** you want.

I just don't see why this draft would upset anyone...is it because we drafted a CB in the second round when that wasn't perceived as a need? Honestly...what kind of draft would have made you happy? A good player is a good pick, and I've never been a fan of over-reaching based on need. There already IS a lot of talent on this team, so turn that frown upside-down.

Fifth round on is pure scouting territory, and we only had two picks before that. I really doubt very many people around these parts are familiar with too many of these mid-to-late prospects without the help of their old pal Google.

The kind of draft that concentrated on players/positions that filled holes (other than possible ST's and depth) and could actually contribute this season is a regular rotation. Jordan Phillips instead of Darby certainly wouldn't be 'over-reaching'. Miller was a good pick. Although they went in the sixth, I certainly wouldn't consider Tyrus Thompson or Michael Bennett a reach in the fifth. Also, just because Buffalo didn't take them doesn't mean they aren't any more or less of a 'good player' or a 'good pick'.

Is Jordan Phillips 'not as good' because he went two picks later? Of course not.

How about a safety (to replace a starter we lost) instead of a running back, tight end or a wide receiver (all of which we have invested heavily in the last couple of seasons, especially this off season)?

I've already said this, but it bears repeating...

We lose a safety, and do nothing. We lose a starting ILB and trade away depth, and do nothing. Do you really believe that this team is solid enough all the way around that they can afford to spend the vast majority of their acquisitions in free agency and the draft on offensive skill positions mostly? We loaded up on those already, why double-down in the draft too?

[BertSquirtgum]

There's always one in the crowd.

[feldspar]

The kind of draft that concentrated on players/positions that filled holes (other than possible ST's and depth) and could actually contribute this season is a regular rotation. Jordan Phillips instead of Darby certainly wouldn't be 'over-reaching'. Miller was a good pick. Although they went in the sixth, I certainly wouldn't consider Tyrus Thompson or Michael Bennett a reach in the fifth. Also, just because Buffalo didn't take them doesn't mean they aren't any more or less of a 'good player' or a 'good pick'.

Is Jordan Phillips 'not as good' because he went two picks later? Of course not.

How about a safety (to replace a starter we lost) instead of a running back, tight end or a wide receiver (all of which we have invested heavily in the last couple of seasons, especially this off season)?

I've already said this, but it bears repeating...

We lose a safety, and do nothing. We lose a starting ILB and trade away depth, and do nothing. Do you really believe that this team is solid enough all the way around that they can afford to spend the vast majority of their acquisitions in free agency and the draft on offensive skill positions mostly? We loaded up on those already, why double-down in the draft too?

Yeah, we should have taken Jordan Phillips to fill the glaring hole on the Bills D-line this year...sure. It's my hope that Rex Ryan knows more about what he wants to do defensively than any of the humps on message boards, blogs, or twitter...myself included.

I think that if...and pay special attention to the word IF this time...the Bills picked even two or three decent starters in this draft, it was a success, regardless of position. Starters now or in the near future. They just didn't have many cards to play, and that's it.

Williams did play Safety two years in college, I believe I heard BTW too.

[WagonCircler]

They just didn't have many cards to play, and that's it..

And THAT is the problem. Because our idiot GM shot his wad last year and the ripple effect killed this years draft.

[YardRat]

Yeah, we should have taken Jordan Phillips to fill the glaring hole on the Bills D-line this year...sure. It's my hope that Rex Ryan knows more about what he wants to do defensively than any of the humps on message boards, blogs, or twitter...myself included.

I think that if...and pay special attention to the word IF this time...the Bills picked even two or three decent starters in this draft, it was a success, regardless of position. Starters now or in the near future. They just didn't have many cards to play, and that's it.

Williams did play Safety two years in college, I believe I heard BTW too.

I would consider snagging three starters a success also. Regarding this specific draft...

1--Darby I suppose, could supplant McKelvin or Graham on the outside as a starter, if he really is that good out of the gate. Unlikely, but possible.
2--Miller could start at one of the guard spots.
3--Williams isn't starting at RB, and if he does that isn't a good thing. I also doubt he's good enough at safety to start there if that is the plan.
4--Steward isn't going to start over Hughes and Mario.
5--O'Leary isn't going to start over Clay, and if he does we blew a wad in free agency.
6--Lewis will be lucky to make the squad over Hogan or Goodwin.

[stuckincincy]

Pundit pans picks:

"Buffalo Bills

Draft picks: CB Ronald Darby (No. 50 overall), OG John Miller (No. 81 overall), RB Karlos Williams (No. 155 overall), LB Tony Steward (No. 188 overall), TE Nick O'Leary (No. 194 overall), WR Dezmin Lewis (No. 234 overall)
Day 1 grade: N/A
Day 2 grade: B-
Day 3 grade: C
Overall grade: C-

The skinny: If we had to give a grade for Day 1, it would be a C-minus. The Bills traded away what would have been a good pick this year in order to move up a few spots for Sammy Watkins in last year's wide receiver-rich draft. Darby doesn't exactly fill a glaring need, but he has tremendous quickness and can be a nickel guy from Day 1. Miller fits in perfectly with Rex Ryan's system, and Nick O'Leary was born to play in Buffalo.

Bottom line: The Bills didn't address some of their needs, doubling up on some positions that aren't necessarily weaknesses. It's pretty clear Rex Ryan likes FSU players, too."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000488889/article/2015-nfl-draft-final-quicksnap-grades-for-afc-east-teams

:candle:

[Jry44]

These message boards never seem to disappoint for a few laughs after

a) A free agent signing

b) A trade

c) The draft

[Jry44]

Pundit pans picks:

"Buffalo Bills

Draft picks: CB Ronald Darby (No. 50 overall), OG John Miller (No. 81 overall), RB Karlos Williams (No. 155 overall), LB Tony Steward (No. 188 overall), TE Nick O'Leary (No. 194 overall), WR Dezmin Lewis (No. 234 overall)
Day 1 grade: N/A
Day 2 grade: B-
Day 3 grade: C
Overall grade: C-

The skinny: If we had to give a grade for Day 1, it would be a C-minus. The Bills traded away what would have been a good pick this year in order to move up a few spots for Sammy Watkins in last year's wide receiver-rich draft. Darby doesn't exactly fill a glaring need, but he has tremendous quickness and can be a nickel guy from Day 1. Miller fits in perfectly with Rex Ryan's system, and Nick O'Leary was born to play in Buffalo.

Bottom line: The Bills didn't address some of their needs, doubling up on some positions that aren't necessarily weaknesses. It's pretty clear Rex Ryan likes FSU players, too."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000488889/article/2015-nfl-draft-final-quicksnap-grades-for-afc-east-teams

:candle:

Draft grades and "winners and losers" are just as pointless as mock drafts.

LET THE KIDS PLAY BEFORE GRADING THEM!

The media writes reactionary garbage like this because people eat the **** up for some reason. And people bite the hook and get fired up over it so easily....

[Jry44]

I know, I know...

They haven't even put pads on yet...it's way too early to discount some positive things going our way...opinions don't matter nearly as much as results, and the preseason doesn't even start for another three months...everybody (players, coaches, front office) still has the opportunity to prove any naysayers 'wrong'...they are the ones getting paid, not us, so they must know something...

...but...

I can't remember the last time I was this disappointed over what transpired over an off season. Right from the start...

--Didn't hire the best coach for the situation we ended the season with.
--Messing with a defense that was outright dominant last year, with the promise that it will be even better.
--Spent a boat-load of money in free agency on shiny new toys that might not mean **** without an oline or dline.
--Basically ignored 'better fixes' for the most glaring needs roster-wise (offensive line and QB, arguably safety)
--Created more holes than they filled
--Possibly wasted an entire draft adding talent to areas that were least in need of upgrading.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't help but feeling that instead of moving forward, we're moving back. And it isn't just 'two back, one forward', it's two back for coaching, two back for free agency, and two back for the draft.

The defense was changing the minute Marrone opted out. Any new coach for the most part was going to bring his own guy in. And seeing that most of the hires were defensively minded coaches, they were going to have their fingerprints all over our defense no matter who it was. I loved what Schwartz did last season, but there was a 95% chance that he was gone no matter who we hired. And furthermore, he was only one more season away from getting a head coaching gig anyway with a repeat performance of last season.

The players are still there from last seasons defense. To assume that the defense is going to take a serious nose dive because of a new coach is asinine.

[Night Train]

Bills added more than anyone in FA. That more than offset the missing Round 1 pick.

The CB pick wasn't my favorite but I understand it, after Miami & Jets added a lot at WR. He will play a lot, especially if Graham moves to Safety.
Miller has a very real chance to earn a starting spot at Guard.
RB Williams was puzzling but has a huge upside. Dixon is nothing special and Fred J is obviously near the end. Brown is toast after Rex pointed out his fumbling issues.
TE O'Leary was one of my favorite picks. He was Mr. Clutch on 3rd down at Fla. St. Runs perfect routes and has hands of glue. He'll make it. His 40 time was done with a bad hammy but he will be fine.

The only real miss in this draft was watching the run on OT's they liked and not getting one. Fisher of Oregon was there but not rated high on their board, with OG maybe his actual future from what I'm reading. Miller is a natural G and played very well. They can still pick up a Vet OT post draft prior to camp.

the UDFA signed yesterday looks very interesting. Have read several positives on him this morning.



North Carolina State OT Tyson Chandler was the "big winner" of the school's pro day, according to TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline.
Chandler measured in at a, um, svelte 6-foot-7 1/4, 330 pounds, having shed 28 pounds since the season. He boasts an NBA-like 88-inch wingspan, befitting of his Dallas Maverick namesake. Chandler hoisted 31 reps on the bench and added a 28-inch vertical jump, a 9-4 broad jump and a 40 time of 5.25 seconds. "He looked incredibly athletic during position drills for such a large lineman," wrote Pauline. "In fact, most said Chandler was the best offensive lineman in attendance and not Rob Crisp. Chandler was smooth and easily flipped his hips in drills. Scouts commended Chandler on his conditioning, and long-time Oakland Raiders scout and former lineman Mickey Marvin heaped praise on him."

[baalworship]

Bills added more than anyone in FA. That more than offset the missing Round 1 pick.

The CB pick wasn't my favorite but I understand it, after Miami & Jets added a lot at WR. He will play a lot, especially if Graham moves to Safety.
Miller has a very real chance to earn a starting spot at Guard.
RB Williams was puzzling but has a huge upside. Dixon is nothing special and Fred J is obviously near the end. Brown is toast after Rex pointed out his fumbling issues.
TE O'Leary was one of my favorite picks. He was Mr. Clutch on 3rd down at Fla. St. Runs perfect routes and has hands of glue. He'll make it. His 40 time was done with a bad hammy but he will be fine.

The only real miss in this draft was watching the run on OT's they liked and not getting one. Fisher of Oregon was there but not rated high on their board, with OG maybe his actual future from what I'm reading. Miller is a natural G and played very well. They can still pick up a Vet OT post draft prior to camp.

the UDFA signed yesterday looks very interesting. Have read several positives on him this morning.



North Carolina State OT Tyson Chandler was the "big winner" of the school's pro day, according to TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline.
Chandler measured in at a, um, svelte 6-foot-7 1/4, 330 pounds, having shed 28 pounds since the season. He boasts an NBA-like 88-inch wingspan, befitting of his Dallas Maverick namesake. Chandler hoisted 31 reps on the bench and added a 28-inch vertical jump, a 9-4 broad jump and a 40 time of 5.25 seconds. "He looked incredibly athletic during position drills for such a large lineman," wrote Pauline. "In fact, most said Chandler was the best offensive lineman in attendance and not Rob Crisp. Chandler was smooth and easily flipped his hips in drills. Scouts commended Chandler on his conditioning, and long-time Oakland Raiders scout and former lineman Mickey Marvin heaped praise on him."

One thing that puzzles me is how people keep saying starter vs non-starter. Teams play nickle and dime coverage most of the time. Darby will be out there a lot this year. Same goes with running back. Teams use multiple running backs in today's NFL. Williams will be out there also and very likely in key situations such as goal line, critical 3rd and 4th downs. McCoy will be the lead back but I don't see him as the main back for 3rd and short and goal line.

[justasportsfan]

The kind of draft that concentrated on players/positions that filled holes (other than possible ST's and depth) and could actually contribute this season is a regular rotation. Jordan Phillips instead of Darby certainly wouldn't be 'over-reaching'. Miller was a good pick. Although they went in the sixth, I certainly wouldn't consider Tyrus Thompson or Michael Bennett a reach in the fifth. Also, just because Buffalo didn't take them doesn't mean they aren't any more or less of a 'good player' or a 'good pick'.

Is Jordan Phillips 'not as good' because he went two picks later? Of course not.

How about a safety (to replace a starter we lost) instead of a running back, tight end or a wide receiver (all of which we have invested heavily in the last couple of seasons, especially this off season)?

I've already said this, but it bears repeating...

We lose a safety, and do nothing. We lose a starting ILB and trade away depth, and do nothing. Do you really believe that this team is solid enough all the way around that they can afford to spend the vast majority of their acquisitions in free agency and the draft on offensive skill positions mostly? We loaded up on those already, why double-down in the draft too?
Maybe Duke is ready to step up just like Aaron was ready when we got rid of Byrd. Besides it's not like a rookie safety would come in easily and beat Duke right away. If reports are true that they are on Duke then it's probably why they drafted a cb or its because they are moving Graham. I'm not worried about safety. Cbs are harder to find.

[YardRat]

One thing that puzzles me is how people keep saying starter vs non-starter. Teams play nickle and dime coverage most of the time. Darby will be out there a lot this year. Same goes with running back. Teams use multiple running backs in today's NFL. Williams will be out there also and very likely in key situations such as goal line, critical 3rd and 4th downs. McCoy will be the lead back but I don't see him as the main back for 3rd and short and goal line.

Teams also rotate defensive linemen regularly. Do you think Jordan Phillips wouldn't get significant snaps if he were the pick instead?

[baalworship]

Maybe Duke is ready to step up just like Aaron was ready when we got rid of Byrd. Besides it's not like a rookie safety would come in easily and beat Duke right away. If reports are true that they are on Duke then it's probably why they drafted a cb or its because they are moving Graham. I'm not worried about safety. Cbs are harder to find.

Duke is ready and looked good last year. He actually did play a lot more than people realize. We also have Rambo, Meeks, and Graham could be moved in a pinch. My concern is against the Patriots. Who is covering Gronk? Duke should not have to do that again...

[stuckincincy]

Draft grades and "winners and losers" are just as pointless as mock drafts.

LET THE KIDS PLAY BEFORE GRADING THEM!

The media writes reactionary garbage like this because people eat the **** up for some reason. And people bite the hook and get fired up over it so easily....

Indeed they are...but the NFL is loaded with reactionary garbage as you say, and here we are reading and writing about it. For myself, I like to read the opinions of others that are more or less at arm's length from a club one follows.

Certainly though, if the pundits were giving the BUF draft glowing marks, a thread would have been started here. :handball:

[Oaf]

Any chance Williams converts back to Safety?

[baalworship]

Teams also rotate defensive linemen regularly. Do you think Jordan Phillips wouldn't get significant snaps if he were the pick instead?

So what is your point then? You posted about Darby as someone that might start or not. Do you honestly think he won't play even if he doesn't start? He will be on the field a lot, regardless of whether he starts.

You state that Williams, a 5th round pick, won't start. Then the same for two six rounders and a seventh. News flash, none of the players selected after round 3 are expected to start. You also don't see how they can contribute. Williams has a chance to play a lot, without being the starter. So does O'Leary.

I just don't get what you you were expecting. There are real criticisms you can apply to any draft, but you don't seem to be basing your disagreement with anything other than feelings of pessimism.

[YardRat]

So what is your point then? You posted about Darby as someone that might start or not. Do you honestly think he won't play even if he doesn't start? He will be on the field a lot, regardless of whether he starts.

You state that Williams, a 5th round pick, won't start. Then the same for two six rounders and a seventh. News flash, none of the players selected after round 3 are expected to start. You also don't see how they can contribute. Williams has a chance to play a lot, without being the starter. So does O'Leary.

I just don't get what you you were expecting. There are real criticisms you can apply to any draft, but you don't seem to be basing your disagreement with anything other than feelings of pessimism.

One of my points is a 2nd round NT has a better opportunity to contribute, and fills a bigger need, than a 2nd round cornerback. Even if this was a pick for the future, to replace McKelvin or Graham, that argument could (actually should) be made for Kyle Williams and the line. I think Darby will see time, but not as much as Phillips would.

Granted Williams will see time, but how much? First he's going to have to replace at least one (maybe two) roster spots that are already adequately filled. Then, he's going to have bump at least one guy on the depth chart...Barring injury, how many touches will that be per game? Are we going to sit our newly acquired, and very wealthy halfback to get Williams touches? Even if the plan is moving him to safety (which I doubt), why not just draft a guy that's been playing safety all along?

I expected to use the draft to address needs that weren't, or couldn't be, addressed in free agency (oline, dline, safety)...not duplicate the effort on the same positions (RB, WR, TE).

[baalworship]

One of my points is a 2nd round NT has a better opportunity to contribute, and fills a bigger need, than a 2nd round cornerback. Even if this was a pick for the future, to replace McKelvin or Graham, that argument could (actually should) be made for Kyle Williams and the line. I think Darby will see time, but not as much as Phillips would.

Granted Williams will see time, but how much? First he's going to have to replace at least one (maybe two) roster spots that are already adequately filled. Then, he's going to have bump at least one guy on the depth chart...Barring injury, how many touches will that be per game? Are we going to sit our newly acquired, and very wealthy halfback to get Williams touches? Even if the plan is moving him to safety (which I doubt), why not just draft a guy that's been playing safety all along?

I expected to use the draft to address needs that weren't, or couldn't be, addressed in free agency (oline, dline, safety)...not duplicate the effort on the same positions (RB, WR, TE).

Fair enough. Let's see how Phillips does. I can tell you that the Miami media makes this guys sound like a worse pick than Darby.

The motor of new Miami Dolphins defensive lineman Jordan Phillips has been questioned his entire collegiate career.

Hickey said. “He was strong [on film]. Sometimes you have to look at how they were played in the scheme, and what their responsibilities are.

“You see the talent and the flashes and our job is to get him to do it on a consistent basis.”

But most draft analysts believe Phillips will be a major project for the Dolphins.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/sfl-dolphins-select-oklahoma-defensive-tackle-jordan-phillips-with-52-pick-20150501-story.html

[YardRat]

Yeah, it's all a crap shoot, to be determined. I'm certainly not discounting the possibility that Darby could become a true lock-down corner and in hindsight be viewed as the steal of the draft, and if he does that's good for all of us. I'm just not expecting it.

[baalworship]

Yeah, it's all a crap shoot, to be determined. I'm certainly not discounting the possibility that Darby could become a true lock-down corner and in hindsight be viewed as the steal of the draft, and if he does that's good for all of us. I'm just not expecting it.

People were saying McKelvin is the next Leodis. If he is the next Leodis minus the first 2-3 years where he couldn't get his hands up to break up a pass I'm happy with the pick. It appears that Darby, while not being able to catch like a receiver, can at least swat the ball down if the ball arrives.

[Buddo]

Sometimes we tend to forget that we actually have quite a few decent players already. The draft isn't a panacea, although to see people talk about it, you'd think it was.

Why draft guys who aren't any better than who we already have? Or at least aren't potentially any better.

We have a bunch of safeties, for example. Chances are that most of them are better than what we could have drafted, unless there was a guy there in the 2nd round.

What's more important to Ryan's scheme, a DT or a CB? Gotta be CB.

I accept there are concerns at DT, but I also believe that Ryan can scheme for stuff like Dareus being out, and we do have guys who have already shown they can contribute in relief duty.

Marrone knew how to hire good DCs, but after that, he was a schmuck.

I was disappointed that Schwartz left, but it was somewhat inevitable, when Ryan became the HC. I'm not greatly struck on some of the assistants he brought with him, either. Thing is, he's also brought in a legitimate OC in Roman, a legit OL coach, and some of his previous staff, are actually very, very good. He retained Henderson as well, who is a great DBs coach. I'd take Ryan's staff over that of Marrone, any day of the week tbh.

[Night Train]

Teams also rotate defensive linemen regularly. Do you think Jordan Phillips wouldn't get significant snaps if he were the pick instead?
So Bryant and Charles are suddenly fodder ?

[The Jokeman]

So Bryant and Charles are suddenly fodder ?

Yardie's arguement, as was mine pre draft, that if we do move to a traditional Rex Ryan D that we really don't have the true two gap NT and/or 5 Tech DE on the roster. Now I know Dareus could play on the nose if needed but it does take away from ability to rush the passer. Yet in looking at this draft ie we didn't really address D-line as many thought we had to and we took a more traditional 4-3 LB like Stewart (as he doesn't have the usual size a 3-4 LB does) to me it points out that maybe Rex will give offenses more 4-5 looks than the 3-4 he's used to which to me a good thing as it better suits our talent base.

[Mr. Pink]

You should have gone into full blown rant mode instead.

j/s

[swiper]

So Bryant and Charles are suddenly fodder ?

Both of those players are quality rotational players.

[better days]

I 'get' the Darby pick also, to a point. He's already replaced Brooks, and will probably supplant McKelvin or Graham next season. Would have preferred somebody at another position that I think had a better chance of a bigger contribution this season.

Hopefully Miller can produce this season, he has the best opportunity to step in. Williams means either FJax (better not, IMO), Boobie (would prefer he stayed) or Brown (OK, not a big deal but a wasted draft pick exchanged) are gone, posiibly two of them. I'd be surprised if O'Leary ever contributes any more than Gragg has.

I don't think any player drafted at #50 could have made a bigger impact than Darby will.

The reason the Jets were so bad last year is they had crap for CB's.

And CB is a VERY IMPORTANT position in the defense Rex runs.

Darby is exactly the type of CB that Rex covets & I expect to see him on the field a lot this season.

[MillsapsBillsFan]

I don't think any player drafted at #50 could have made a bigger impact than Darby will.

The reason the Jets were so bad last year is they had crap for CB's.

And CB is a VERY IMPORTANT position in the defense Rex runs.

Darby is exactly the type of CB that Rex covets & I expect to see him on the field a lot this season.

Rex Blitzes so much that he needs island/shutdown type corners and thats not really something that we've had at the roster in the past.
Darby has all the physical tools to be this type of player, he doesnt have great ball skills and his stats were lacking in college (partially due to the fact that teams didnt test him that much) but he will be a real impact player

[better days]

Thanks, I try to out-do my previous bests and worsts from time to time.

Regarding coaching, I'm not just looking at Ryan vs Marrone, I'd take Ryan too. Roman and Kroger over Hackett and Morris also. The rest of the staff? Meh. Losing Schwartz was huge IMO, and I really don't like the dragging along of almost the entire Jets previous staff. Bobby April III, Tony Sparano Jr Jr, Sanjay Lal? Uggh.

Regarding free agency, we spent a lot of money on flashy toys, but I'm more of a substance over style kind of guy.

You forgot to mention the Bills kept Donnie Henderson. That was huge IMO.

And Harvin said Sanjay Lal is a great Coach & is a big reason he signed with the Bills.

And Harvin has played on the Vikings & Seahawks, so he has had a number of different Coaches to compare Lal to.