Vic Carucci Talks About Possible Bills Surprise Cuts, O-line Shakeup, Franchise QB

[BillsImpossible]

Fred Jackson

EJ Manuel

Marquice Goodwin

Richie Incognito

Percy Harvin

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/05/30/bills-mailbag-big-name-cuts-could-still-happen/

This is a bit of a mixed bag of topics all jammed in to one article, but it's an interesting read and I think Carucci is trying to say something without really saying it if you know I mean.

Where did all of the OTA reports go? We got 1 days worth of reports, and that's it.

Why no updates on the QB competition I wonder? Who won day 2? Day 3?

Vic Carucci wrote two things in that article that stuck out the most to me.

"Tyrod Taylor, a clear favorite of coach Rex Ryan..."

and...

"It means that he and the rest of the Bills’ decision-makers are buying whatever time they can until they are able to land a franchise quarterback, the most critical ingredient to a championship team."

[casdhf]

If Fred Jackson gets cut I will revolt.

[HHURRICANE]

I think you trade Fred and EJ in a package deal. EJ is a cancer as a backup but on another team he's definately serviceable. Fred is playing his last year and I know we all love him but you have to look forward here.

[ParanoidAndroid]

If Fred Jackson gets cut I will revolt.

I'm glad that tis was the first reply because it was my first thought. I want Fred to retire after his last season as a Bill. He is far and away my favorite of all time.... an underdog on an underdog team. I'm a huge sap, I know.

[Goobylal]

I think you trade Fred and EJ in a package deal. EJ is a cancer as a backup but on another team he's definately serviceable. Fred is playing his last year and I know we all love him but you have to look forward here.
EJ is a "cancer as a backup"? From where did you pull that one?

[YardRat]

Yeah, if Jackson gets cut I will move on from skeptical/disappointed to flat-out pissed with this regime and ready to move on to the next guy. Brown, maybe even Dixon, are the expendable ones at RB, cutting Freddie would be a complete admission of insecurity on Ryan's part. Maybe Rexy isn't a strong enough leader himself, to be able to handle an existing presence like Jackson in the locker room.

Emanual, Incognito and Goodwin aren't exactly reaches...I don't know if any would be real surprises at this point considering what they each have to overcome.

Harvin would be ridiculous. You just don't throw six million for one season at a guy that may be on the bubble. You expect him to play, and produce.

[Woodman]

No cuts among those listed.

[Goobylal]

It will all be merit-based. If the younger guys play better, Freddie's out. I love him but you can't hang onto sentimentality and sadly, he's close to the end.

[BertSquirtgum]

The only one listed I see getting cut is Roscoe Parish v2.0.

[Buffalogic]

Why do people care about fred jackson so much? Yes he is likable, but who cares. He's very old and his production can be easily replaced. That's the only thing that matters. He should have been cut years ago.

[YardRat]

Fred Jackson at 34 is still a better RB than Brown or Dixon. Is the idea to fill the roster with the better players, or the younger ones?

[Buffalogic]

^ I dont think that is true.

[casdhf]

Easily replaced? You people have the worst memories imaginable. When the team has a 3rd and short Fred gets the ball. Ask the Bears' Conte if Fred still has it. People care because he has earned it.

[Buffalogic]

Fred always gets hurt too. He's good for maybe 600 yards a season. Easily replaced.

[YardRat]

^ I dont think that is true.

Fair enough, but I can't agree.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Fred always gets hurt too. He's good for maybe 600 yards a season. Easily replaced.

I can't believe you watched the games and think this is true because he was the most reliable player on the field. He had over 1000 all purpose yards in 14 games just this last year. The year before he played in all 16 games and had 1200 all-purpose yards, all while splitting time with Spiller. He is clearly the second best RB on the team right now. It's not even close. Dixon is a solid #3 and Brown might be cut if Karlos Williams looks like he's any good.

[OpIv37]

FJax has been a warrior for us. No doubt about that. But his physical skills have diminished and he gets by on experience and football smarts. We need guys like him. At the same time, he's not the only experienced player we have. At this point, I could go either way on him. I like the guy and respect what he has contributed to this team- and I always will. But he's not irreplaceable.

As far as Incognito, if he gets cut, then the only addition to last year's atrocious OL is a 3rd round rookie. That's a very scary thought, especially given what we sacrificed for a WR in Watkins and an RB in McCoy. Those pickups will be rendered moot by the lack of an effective OL (not to mention QB, but that's a separate issue).

[Buffalogic]

1000 rushing yards ain't dick so 1000 combined rushing and receiving is a joke. I don't get why some of you overvalue him so much.

[DraftBoy]

If they cut Jackson then I'm pretty much over next season. My expectations aren't terribly high for next season already, so it would be much easier without Jackson to just not really care.

[BertSquirtgum]

Why do people care about fred jackson so much? Yes he is likable, but who cares. He's very old and his production can be easily replaced. That's the only thing that matters. He should have been cut years ago.

No.

[Buffalogic]

If they cut Jackson then I'm pretty much over next season. My expectations aren't terribly high for next season already, so it would be much easier without Jackson to just not really care.
This makes no sense. Explain this stance. You expect Jackson to carry the team or something? He'll play 10 games tops. He's old. He's slow. He's injury prone. He's a glorified specialist at this stage in his career.

[DraftBoy]

This makes no sense. Explain this stance. You expect Jackson to carry the team or something? He'll play 10 games tops. He's old. He's slow. He's injury prone. He's a glorified specialist at this stage in his career.

1) He'll play 16.
2) He's the 2nd best RB on the team and with our focus on the running game we need him to spell Shady.
3) He's sacrificed so much for this team over the years to cut him now when he's winding his career down would be a ****ty move.

The combination of Dixon, Brown, and Williams (one of whom is going to get cut) cannot replace 1,000 all purpose yards, or the blocking that Jackson offers in pass protection.

To call him a specialist is a gross understatement of his current value to this team on and off the field.

[streetkings01]

1) He'll play 16.
2) He's the 2nd best RB on the team and with our focus on the running game we need him to spell Shady.
3) He's sacrificed so much for this team over the years to cut him now when he's winding his career down would be a ****ty move.

The combination of Dixon, Brown, and Williams (one of whom is going to get cut) cannot replace 1,000 all purpose yards, or the blocking that Jackson offers in pass protection.

To call him a specialist is a gross understatement of his current value to this team on and off the field.Cant replace 1000 all purpose yards?!?!
You know how man RB's in the NFL achieve that year in year out while sharing the load with another guy? Pretty much 80% of them do.......Fred is very replaceable.......there's a reason we traded for Shady and drafted Los.

[Mace]

Article looked like a reach and just speculation to me. I think it was meant to be though.

[DraftBoy]

Cant replace 1000 all purpose yards?!?!
You know how man RB's in the NFL achieve that year in year out while sharing the load with another guy? Pretty much 80% of them do.......Fred is very replaceable.......there's a reason we traded for Shady and drafted Los.

Are any of them named Anthony Dixon or Bryce Brown? Who combined to only account for 783 total yards last year.

[streetkings01]

Fred was 23rd amongst running backs in all purpose yards last year..........def gonna be super tough to replace that production smh

[DraftBoy]

Fred was 23rd amongst running backs in all purpose yards last year..........def gonna be super tough to replace that production smh

Where did Brown and Dixon rank?

[streetkings01]

Are any of them named Anthony Dixon or Bryce Brown? Who combined to only account for 783 total yards last year.
Fred - 207 touches
Boobie - 113 touches
Brown - 52 touches

[DraftBoy]

Fred - 207 touches
Boobie - 113 touches
Brown - 52 touches

Cool, so Jackson is more productive per touch than both of the other RB's combined. I appreciate you helping my point.

[streetkings01]

Fred has 1 1000 yard rushing season in his career and people act as if he's the second coming of Thurman Thomas.

If McGahee, Henry, Lynch or Spiller had Fred's production the past 9 seasons we'd be ready to run them out of Buffalo........wait a minute........

[streetkings01]

It seems like Fred gets a pass for being mediocre to above average his entire career just because he has a cool movie like story.

[streetkings01]

Cool, so Jackson is more productive per touch than both of the other RB's combined. I appreciate you helping my point.
No it just means Fred got more opportunities combined then the other 2 guys combined.

[Mace]

It seems like Fred gets a pass for being mediocre to above average his entire career just because he has a cool movie like story.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3RMCNztbpM

[Mace]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3RMCNztbpM

Not even going to mention the JJ Watt bruise. These things happened last season for the old man Jackson.

[cookie G]

Not even going to mention the JJ Watt bruise. These things happened last season for the old man Jackson.

Don't bother mentioning it.

The same people have talked the same crap about Fjax since he came to the Bills.

They've been wrong for so long....sooner or later their broken clock will eventually be right.


Fjax retires on his own terms.

[BertSquirtgum]

It seems like Fred gets a pass for being mediocre to above average his entire career just because he has a cool movie like story.

This post is an idiot

[Goobylal]

If they cut Jackson then I'm pretty much over next season. My expectations aren't terribly high for next season already, so it would be much easier without Jackson to just not really care.
Why aren't your expectations high? You think the moves they made downgraded the team?

1) He'll play 16.
2) He's the 2nd best RB on the team and with our focus on the running game we need him to spell Shady.
3) He's sacrificed so much for this team over the years to cut him now when he's winding his career down would be a ****ty move.

The combination of Dixon, Brown, and Williams (one of whom is going to get cut) cannot replace 1,000 all purpose yards, or the blocking that Jackson offers in pass protection.

To call him a specialist is a gross understatement of his current value to this team on and off the field.


Are any of them named Anthony Dixon or Bryce Brown? Who combined to only account for 783 total yards last year.
Fred embodies what you want from your players, but he's only as good as his production. I hope he can keep it up, but Bryce Brown and Anothony Dixon averaged just 0.2 YPP less than Fred did last year.

[Mace]

Fred embodies what you want from your players, but he's only as good as his production. I hope he can keep it up, but Bryce Brown and Anothony Dixon averaged just 0.2 YPP less than Fred did last year.

So that makes them better, how, in terms of production ? It doesn't. Big word here is "less", means not more. Live by the stats and die by them.

[Goobylal]

So that makes them better, how, in terms of production ? It doesn't. Big word here is "less", means not more. Live by the stats and die by them.
Combined they were less. Brown averaged higher in yards per touch than Fred did. And again, both are significantly younger.

[YardRat]

Lol...FJax has been screwed over so many times and risen to the top over his career in Buffalo it isn't even questionable.

Fred > runner than Brown and Dixon.
Fred >> receiver than Brown and Dixon.
Fred >>> blocker than Brown and Dixon.
Fred is >>>>>>>>>> leader than Brown and Dixon.

We're talking about a back-up to Shady, not a competition for first team reps. You just don't release a player of his caliber, you let him limp off the field, or carry him off on a stretcher. Intangibles don't show up on stat sheets. Neither do stiff-arms or killer blitz pick-ups, but they matter a helluva lot more .2 yards per touch over the course of a season.

[kishoph]

Fred always gets hurt too. He's good for maybe 600 yards a season. Easily replaced.

Four out of the past six seasons, Jackson has rushed for at least 890 yds. the exceptions being 2012 when he played in less than 10 games and last season where the OL's play was so terrible, any RB would of struggled. Jackson has not dressed for 14 games since 2008, that's not really always hurt. Although this will be Jackson's 9th (10th officially) season, his first season was basically a scratch, having only 58 carries. In comparison this will be LeSean McCoy's 7th season. In that time McCoy has 182 more carries than Jackson.
Easily replaced ? I don't think there is any player on this roster that is looked at as the leader that Fred Jackson is right now. Even though his on field production may not be hard to be replaced by a younger faster RB, what he brings to the team as a leader, positive influence and mentor is far from being easily replaceable.

[Meathead]

fred definitely proved me wrong last season. i never thought he would finish the season let alone be as productive as he was. he was like a freakin machine. again

if we could get another one of those yeah sure. but its a huge gamble. how many rbs have there been in the nfl the last twenty years, maybe two thousand-ish. out of those rbs how many have been reliable and productive after the age of 32 - probably three-ish: emmit smith, curtis martin, and freddie. rbs after 32 most often just flat out cant run elusively and cant stay healthy. freddie has absolutely bucked that trend in historic fashion, but it cant last forever

if im the hc i just dont see myself taking that gamble for the nfls most plug-and-play position. mccoy is a lot dumber, definitely a one-way privileged negro with an attitude type, but its his team now. go with grace, freddie

[streetkings01]

Why do people keep saying Fred is such a great leader? Being a leader of a terrible offense the past decade on a mediocre team means what exactly? Maybe if we stop relying on guys with cool stories like Fred we'd make the playoffs one of these years.

[DraftBoy]

No it just means Fred got more opportunities combined then the other 2 guys combined.

And was more productive with those opportunities. You can try and keep spinning this all you want, but the facts don't support your thought process.

[DraftBoy]

Why aren't your expectations high? You think the moves they made downgraded the team?

Not necessairly, but I don't think they did much to upgrade either. I'm not coming into the next season with the expectations of making the playoffs, there are too many unknowns which include two new schemes and plenty of questions about the quality of personnel at key positions.

[Buckets]

If Fred Jackson gets cut I will revolt.

This is professional football, get over it.

[casdhf]

It's a hobby. I don't have to. Dick.

[MillsapsBillsFan]

Fred was 23rd amongst running backs in all purpose yards last year..........def gonna be super tough to replace that production smh

Well theres 32 teams, so being 23 on on offense as bad as ours was is fine with me. You might have a point here if he was in the 50's or something, but 23rd production wouldnt be that easy to replace

[Goobylal]

Not necessairly, but I don't think they did much to upgrade either. I'm not coming into the next season with the expectations of making the playoffs, there are too many unknowns which include two new schemes and plenty of questions about the quality of personnel at key positions.
Fair enough. I'm higher on them than you, but won't predict playoffs either.

[BertSquirtgum]

Why do people keep saying Fred is such a great leader? Being a leader of a terrible offense the past decade on a mediocre team means what exactly? Maybe if we stop relying on guys with cool stories like Fred we'd make the playoffs one of these years.

Better to keep your ****ty posting on BBMB.

[EDS]

Cant replace 1000 all purpose yards?!?!
You know how man RB's in the NFL achieve that year in year out while sharing the load with another guy? Pretty much 80% of them do.......Fred is very replaceable.......there's a reason we traded for Shady and drafted Los.

Neither Dixon nor Brown has ever had as much as 500 yards from scrimmage in a season. But sure, they can replace Fred Jackson.

[trapezeus]

i always thought of fred as rob riddick. He was a good RB for the bills that you knew suffered during the bad years and then wasn't there for the uptick in the 90's as thurman and co came in. i always hoped that fred would get one year to experience the playoffs. Good soldiers who produced and have a high standard should get a limited pass if they realize their limited role.

let's face it, the NFL is trying to crack down on its image and having a guy like fred who can keep people on the straight and narrow is a good influence as long as he isn't moaning about his personal glory days.

I'm not saying, "let's sign him to another 3 year contract", but if he remains a viable blocker and receiving threat on 3rd down, i'd keep him. i'd rather cut bryce brown and his fumbles and pick up weaker back with upside with fred there, than letting fred go and keeping a guy with promise who hasn't done much.

you can tell me, i'm clouded with fred excitement, but i think he adds something that a younger guy who's proven nothing will not.

[notacon]

Off season, right before training camp, is always the worst time of year.

This thread is evidence of that.

[Strongman]

I'd rather keep Fred instead of cutting him just to see him sign with a division rival. I'd think the Jets would have interest in him since CHan is the OC and the Pats would sign him just for the intel.

[Buffalogic]

Fred Jackson and his production are not worth keeping on the roster at his age and his injury history. He's old, he's just going to get more and more hurt. The notion of he's a great leader and squeaky clean is so overdramatized it's ridiculous. This is the NFL people it's not Rudy. Dixon IS a better back and has more to offer now and in the future. Cutting Dixon in favor of 34 year old Fred Jackson would be idiotic.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If you want to keep Fred Jackson because he's a leader and a warrior, that's perfectly understandable. I can even agree with it. But recognize that is an emotional argument and not a rational one. Trying to defend Jackson based on his stats is just not a winning argument.

Imagine that Jackson wasn't on the team and I came and said

"There's a free agent I think you guys should look at:

-He'll be 34 years old this season
-He's missed games in three of the last four years and been IR'd twice
-He put up a 3.7 yards per carry last year. He had only one run longer than 20 yards on the entire season, and it was only his 2nd since 2011.
-He was the primary ballcarrier on a bottom 3rd rushing offense
-He was tied for 2nd in fumbles by a halfback, despite most of his contemporaries having 60-100 more touches then him. And this was not even his worst year in that regard.
-His salary is $2.6 million

But on the plus side:
-He is a beast pass blocker
-He is a good receiver option (with the caveat that most of his fumbles came on receptions)
-He is a locker room leader"

How many are inking that contract?

[Buffalogic]

^Illuminatus with a post I agree with for once. Way to bring the facts. It's obvious Jackson is one of the most replaceable players on the roster, but some folks just can't get rid of their googly eyes.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Fred was 23rd amongst running backs in all purpose yards last year..........def gonna be super tough to replace that production smh

http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2014&mode=Y&conf=&limit=50

Freddie was 19th in total yards from scrimmage (all-purpose includes return yards) and 3rd in receiving yards among RB's last year. His percentage of 1st downs per touch are right there with the best RB's in the league. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. He retires a Bill.

[streetkings01]

If you want to keep Fred Jackson because he's a leader and a warrior, that's perfectly understandable. I can even agree with it. But recognize that is an emotional argument and not a rational one. Trying to defend Jackson based on his stats is just not a winning argument.

Imagine that Jackson wasn't on the team and I came and said

"There's a free agent I think you guys should look at:

-He'll be 34 years old this season
-He's missed games in three of the last four years and been IR'd twice
-He put up a 3.7 yards per carry last year. He had only one run longer than 20 yards on the entire season, and it was only his 2nd since 2011.
-He was the primary ballcarrier on a bottom 3rd rushing offense
-He was tied for 2nd in fumbles by a halfback, despite most of his contemporaries having 60-100 more touches then him. And this was not even his worst year in that regard.
-His salary is $2.6 million

But on the plus side:
-He is a beast pass blocker
-He is a good receiver option (with the caveat that most of his fumbles came on receptions)
-He is a locker room leader"

How many are inking that contract?But he's a great locker room guy so that trumps all his shortcomings according to some of these posters on this board.

[streetkings01]

http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2014&mode=Y&conf=&limit=50

Freddie was 19th in total yards from scrimmage (all-purpose includes return yards) and 3rd in receiving yards among RB's last year. His percentage of 1st downs per touch are right there with the best RB's in the league. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. He retires a Bill.The thing is it is broke and has been broke thus the reason we drafted Spiller and traded for McCoy. I understand you guys love Fred , but he's part of the reason the offense has been terrible outside of a half of the 2011 season the past 9 seasons.

[better days]

Fred Jackson and his production are not worth keeping on the roster at his age and his injury history. He's old, he's just going to get more and more hurt. The notion of he's a great leader and squeaky clean is so overdramatized it's ridiculous. This is the NFL people it's not Rudy. Dixon IS a better back and has more to offer now and in the future. Cutting Dixon in favor of 34 year old Fred Jackson would be idiotic.

Over dramatized is talk of Fred's injuries & age.

Thank God the Bills have real football people in charge now.

They know Fred's value to the team.

[better days]

But he's a great locker room guy so that trumps all his shortcomings according to some of these posters on this board.

LMAO, why don't you list Fred's shortcomings for us.

[BertSquirtgum]

The thing is it is broke and has been broke thus the reason we drafted Spiller and traded for McCoy. I understand you guys love Fred , but he's part of the reason the offense has been terrible outside of a half of the 2011 season the past 9 seasons.

Actually, he is the reason it wasn't as bad as it could of been.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The thing is it is broke and has been broke thus the reason we drafted Spiller and traded for McCoy. I understand you guys love Fred , but he's part of the reason the offense has been terrible outside of a half of the 2011 season the past 9 seasons.

The O-line is broke. The QB position is broke. The Marrone/Hackett scheme was broke. Fred Jackson is not broke. If you go back and watch the games it becomes obvious that FJ was the most reliable player on that offense. You could make an argument for Sammy if he wasn't limited by the poor QB play.

[Buffalogic]

Over dramatized is talk of Fred's injuries & age.

Thank God the Bills have real football people in charge now.

They know Fred's value to the team.
Your posts are mired in drivel and homerism. No big surprise that this is your stance on Jackson.

[better days]

Your posts are mired in drivel and homerism. No big surprise that this is your stance on Jackson.

Your posts are mired in pessimism.

Rumblin' Stumblin' Bumblin' your ass.

[Buffalogic]

^ Actually they are not. I fully believe the bills will make the playoffs this upcoming year, we just need the best 53 to be on the team. That starts with cutting Jackson.

[better days]

^ Actually they are not. I fully believe the bills will make the playoffs this upcoming year, we just need the best 53 to be on the team. That starts with cutting Jackson.

Actually they are.

Like I said, Rumbin' Stumblin' Bumblin' below your user name, LMAO.

You have identified yourself as a pessimist. FACT.

[Buffalogic]

Yup pessimists believe a team with no elite qb will make the playoffs after a 15 year drought. Sorry I'm not married to players. If a guy is dead weight, he's dead weight and I'll mention it. Keeping guys like Fred and EJ is just stupid and not in the best interest of the team. But keep making apologies for them. You must like losing year in and year out.

[better days]

Yup pessimists believe a team with no elite qb will make the playoffs after a 15 year drought. Sorry I'm not married to players. If a guy is dead weight, he's dead weight and I'll mention it. Keeping guys like Fred and EJ is just stupid and not in the best interest of the team. But keep making apologies for them. You must like losing year in and year out.

I agree, if a guy is dead weight, he needs to be cut loose.

Show us where Fred is dead weight if you want to make that case.

So far you have not done that.

Like I said, Rex & his staff will make the decision about who is & isn't dead weight.

[Buffalogic]

I have, Streetkings has, Illuminatus has. You choose to ignore it. That's on you.

[streetkings01]

Over dramatized is talk of Fred's injuries & age.

Thank God the Bills have real football people in charge now.

They know Fred's value to the team.You mean the same people that tried to resign Spiller, traded for McCoy, traded for Brown, signed Dixon and drafted Karlos Williams? The same people who earlier this year reported by a reporter as wanting to cut Fred but Mr. Pegula stepped in? Are you talking about those people?

[better days]

I have, Streetkings has, Illuminatus has. You choose to ignore it. That's on you.

No, NONE of you have made ANY CASE that Fred is dead weight.

If you think you did, that is on you.

[streetkings01]

LMAO, why don't you list Fred's shortcomings for us.He's slow , injury prone and doesn't add much as short yardage back as much as people like to believe.

[Beebe]

Only one of those guys gets cut, and that's
Marquise Goodwin.

[Buffalogic]

-He'll be 34 years old this season
-He's missed games in three of the last four years and been IR'd twice
-He put up a 3.7 yards per carry last year. He had only one run longer than 20 yards on the entire season, and it was only his 2nd since 2011.
-He was the primary ballcarrier on a bottom 3rd rushing offense
-He was tied for 2nd in fumbles by a halfback, despite most of his contemporaries having 60-100 more touches then him. And this was not even his worst year in that regard.
-His salary is $2.6 million
Better Days if you need more than this you are an idiot. But that is already clear. We don't need 5 running backs on the roster, so you want to keep the only one who has absolutely no upside. Goddamn just stop posting, you're a know nothing garbage man.

[streetkings01]

The O-line is broke. The QB position is broke. The Marrone/Hackett scheme was broke. Fred Jackson is not broke. If you go back and watch the games it becomes obvious that FJ was the most reliable player on that offense. You could make an argument for Sammy if he wasn't limited by the poor QB play.Fred has 3 TDs last season and averaged 3.7 yards per carry..........if you want to hang your hat on that be my guest but I consider that mediocre.

Fred's last 40 games he's rushed for 80 or more yards only 5 times...........are you freaking kidding me???? Spiller ran for 80 or more yards in a game 5 times in his last 24 games and the fanbase couldn't push him out the door fast enough!

[Buffalogic]

^ These people are crazy Street, can't change their minds.

[better days]

Better Days if you need more than this you are an idiot. But that is already clear. We don't need 5 running backs on the roster, so you want to keep the only one who has absolutely no upside. Goddamn just stop posting, you're a know nothing garbage man.

Wow great insults.

LMAO at an IDIOT that can't carry on an argument without resorting to insults.

Insults are the weapon of the STUPID that don't have the intelligence to WIN an argument.

Fred is arguably the best blocking back on the Bills. A great weapon to have on 3rd down.

Fred can do it all. He can block, catch & run the ball.

On third & short, Fred is money.

And there are fumbles that don't have much effect on a game & then there are fumbles like Brown's fumble which cost the Bills a TD & had a great effect on the game.

[Buffalogic]

Idiots ignore facts and deserve their monikers. You being one.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's ignore numbers in favor of "Fred is Money". Utterly ridiculous.

[better days]

Idiots ignore facts and deserve their monikers. You being one.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's ignore numbers in favor of "Fred is Money". Utterly ridiculous.

You are a Rumblin' Stumblin' Bumblin' IDIOT.

How about looking at FILM instead of stats.

That is what COACHES do.

Internet clowns that know nothing use stats to support their arguments.

[Buffalogic]

You have no supporting argument and you ignore facts. Complete fool. What can Fred do on the field that the other four can't? Nothing. That's what. All the others are younger and have actual upside. What is wrong with you?

[better days]

You have no supporting argument and you ignore facts. Complete fool. What can Fred do on the field that the other four can't? Nothing. That's what. All the others are younger and have actual upside. What is wrong with you?

BS. I already told you Fred is the BEST blocking back on the Bills.

And Roman has said Fred is great at that.

Fred is VERSATILE, something that does not show up on a stat sheet.

Those are my supporting arguments.

You have nothing but meaningless numbers to support your STUPID argument that Fred is dead weight.

Like I said, Rex & his staff will determine who is dead weight on the Bills.

And they will use FILM to determine that, not some stupid stat sheet.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I have, Streetkings has, Illuminatus has. You choose to ignore it. That's on you.

Don't kid yourself. You're in the minority on this one and not in a good way.

[Buffalogic]

I'm not looking to win a popularity contest. Obviously nobody wants to hear their favorite player is useless. But I don't get why people get so attached to players. Especially when they are unproductive.

[cookie G]

I'm not looking to win a popularity contest. Obviously nobody wants to hear their favorite player is useless. But I don't get why people get so attached to players. Especially when they are unproductive.

And yet you want to replace him with a guy that couldn't even start on his college team, a guy who actually had less yards from scrimmage last year, in college, than FJ did in the NFL.

Please...no one believes this spiel of how you want to improve the team.

So FJ took your lunch money once...move on.

[Buffalogic]

^ Dumb. I guess nobody supporting Fred can realize the guy has no upside.

[YardRat]

If you want to keep Fred Jackson because he's a leader and a warrior, that's perfectly understandable. I can even agree with it. But recognize that is an emotional argument and not a rational one. Trying to defend Jackson based on his stats is just not a winning argument.

Imagine that Jackson wasn't on the team and I came and said

"There's a free agent I think you guys should look at:

-He'll be 34 years old this season
-He's missed games in three of the last four years and been IR'd twice
-He put up a 3.7 yards per carry last year. He had only one run longer than 20 yards on the entire season, and it was only his 2nd since 2011.
-He was the primary ballcarrier on a bottom 3rd rushing offense
-He was tied for 2nd in fumbles by a halfback, despite most of his contemporaries having 60-100 more touches then him. And this was not even his worst year in that regard.
-His salary is $2.6 million

But on the plus side:
-He is a beast pass blocker
-He is a good receiver option (with the caveat that most of his fumbles came on receptions)
-He is a locker room leader"

How many are inking that contract?

I bet he doesn't make it through waivers if he gets cut. Stats don't mean **** when you're at the top of the list with intangibles, especially considering the offensive cluster-**** somebody like Fred has had to play with the last few seasons.

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain why Brown and Boobie are better backs than Jackson, other than age and supposition.

[Buffalogic]

If Fred was cut he'd be buried on the depth chart for any team who may or may not pick him up. Boobie is a better short yardage back. His youth lends to not getting hurt as much. He's not a fumble king.

[Buffalogic]

Boobie also had more 20+ yard runs in half the carries as Jackson.

[cookie G]

^ Dumb. I guess nobody supporting Fred can realize the guy has no upside.

That's ....it?

that's the reason Karlo Whatshisname should be kept instead of FJ?


That's it?


Dude...really....

[Buffalogic]

Yes we should cut prospects just drafted so all our young guys can lose carries to a player who can't get close to 1000 yards or 5 tds....You guys are ass backwards.

- - - Updated - - -

Who is 34!!!

[cookie G]

Yes we should cut prospects just drafted so all our young guys can lose carries to a player who can't get close to 1000 yards or 5 tds....You guys are ass backwards.

- - - Updated - - -

Who is 34!!!


Nooooo....

We should cut our players and give their roster spots to guys who couldn't start on their college team!!


Keep goin' man....

lovin' on this logic

[YardRat]

If Fred was cut he'd be buried on the depth chart for any team who may or may not pick him up. Boobie is a better short yardage back. His youth lends to not getting hurt as much. He's not a fumble king.

How is Boobie a better short yardage back? Jackson is a 'fumble king'?

[Buffalogic]

Nooooo....

We should cut our players and give their roster spots to guys who couldn't start on their college team!!


Keep goin' man....

lovin' on this logic
Thurman Thomas couldn't start on his college team you fool.

[Buffalogic]

How is Boobie a better short yardage back? Jackson is a 'fumble king'?
How is he not is the better question. Tell me why he's not better. And yes, he's a fumbling, injury prone, old back that shouldn't be on our roster with how many other young and better options we have.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you actually think Fred's numbers are going to get better? They are going to keep diminishing. What is so hard to understand about that?

[cookie G]

Thurman Thomas couldn't start on his college team you fool.

You've gotta be about ...12

TT was one of the best college RB's in the country his soph and senior years. He gained over 1600 yards in both of those years. He had problems in his junior year due to a knee injury.

All American 1985 and 1987



damn...my wife even knows that.

But now that I know what I'm dealing with....ta-ta 'lil man.

[YardRat]

Thurman Thomas couldn't start on his college team you fool.

Thurman Thomas kept Barry Sanders on the bench for two seasons. You can't be serious.

[YardRat]

How is he not is the better question. Tell me why he's not better. And yes, he's a fumbling, injury prone, old back that shouldn't be on our roster with how many other young and better options we have.

- - - Updated - - -

Do you actually think Fred's numbers are going to get better? They are going to keep diminishing. What is so hard to understand about that?

His numbers aren't supposed to get better, he'll be backing up Shady.

"How is he not?" Really? That's all you've got?

[Buffalogic]

You've gotta be about ...12

TT was one of the best college RB's in the country his soph and senior years. He gained over 1600 yards in both of those years. He had problems in his junior year due to a knee injury.

All American 1985 and 1987



damn...my wife even knows that.

But now that I know what I'm dealing with....ta-ta 'lil man.I'm 30, Mr. old man. The game has passed you by clearly.

- - - Updated - - -


His numbers aren't supposed to get better, he'll be backing up Shady.

"How is he not?" Really? That's all you've got?
What exactly do you have Rat? You love him?

[YardRat]

What exactly do you have Rat? You love him?

You made the claim that Dixon was a better short yardage back. Based on what? Age?

[Buffalogic]

****in ****** fanboys probably were calling a Dareus a bust 3 years ago. This board is getting worse and worse every day.

[Buffalogic]

You made the claim that Dixon was a better short yardage back. Based on what? Age?
Do you watch the games? It's obvious. Or do you need stats to prove what is already plain as day?

[cookie G]

I'm 30, Mr. old man.



Of course you are..



The game has passed you by clearly.

Please..don't...you're looking bad enough as it is.

[Buffalogic]

Let's keep a guy who wasn't good to begin with as he gets worse and worse even though we are amazing deep at the position!!! Yeah!

- - - Updated - - -


Of course you are..



Please..don't...you're looking bad enough as it is.
You have said nothing but college team repeatedly. You are an old timer we get it. Stick to your era.

[swiper]

Fred Jackson led the entire AFC in rushing yards in 2011 when he was injured. He has returned healthy and has been used sparingly. Outside of McCoy, he is far and away the best RB on the roster. And yes - the only one that can block. You Buffalologicidiot.

[Buffalogic]

Fred Jackson led the entire AFC in rushing yards in 2011 when he was injured. He has returned healthy and has been used sparingly. Outside of McCoy, he is far and away the best RB on the roster. And yes - the only one that can block. You Buffalologicidiot.
It's 2015 dummy.

[cookie G]

Let's keep a guy who wasn't good to begin with as he gets worse and worse even though we are amazing deep at the position!!! Yeah!

You have said nothing but college team repeatedly. You are an old timer we get it. Stick to your era.

Keep goin', pumpkin..

Now, are you going to answer my question, or do we just usher in the Karlos Williams Era based on the opinion of a 12 year old?

[Buffalogic]

Don't care what the board is telling me you idiots are clueless fan boys. Idolize mediocrity more.

- - - Updated - - -


Keep goin', pumpkin..

Now, are you going to answer my question, or do we just usher in the Karlos Williams Era based on the opinion of a 12 year old?What question? How old are you 60? I'm 30. I've said that. Nice deflecting by the way.

[cookie G]

Only you are the fool. The whole board is trying, to one degree or another, tell you you're an abject failure.

Who was that guy who kept saying the Bills were moving, and kept trying to use bad stats to prove idiotic points?

Fletch! That's it..

Think it could be?

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

why do threads around here mostly deteriorate in 3rd grade name calling?

[cookie G]

What question? How old are you 60? I'm 30. I've said that. Nice deflecting by the way.


Sheesh....



And yet you want to replace him with a guy that couldn't even start on his college team, a guy who actually had less yards from scrimmage last year, in college, than FJ did in the NFL.



^ Dumb. I guess nobody supporting Fred can realize the guy has no upside



That's ....it?

that's the reason Karlo Whatshisname should be kept instead of FJ?



Now don't answer until after you've taken your Ritalin.

And no Xbox for a week.

[Buffalogic]

I don't know what position Williams will play. We don't need more than 3 backs. We also have two fullbacks. Good enough for you?

[BillsImpossible]

Holy crap! 7 pages worth of crap devoted to Fred Jackson when I intended this thread to be about the quarterback competition.

Carucci calls Tyrod Taylor, "A clear favorite of coach Rex Ryan," and everyone goes nuts over a 34 year old running back that is playing in his last year.

I was surprised that Carucci said Taylor was the quote above. Apparently, that flew over all your heads.

It's the quarterback, stupid.

[YardRat]

Do you watch the games? It's obvious. Or do you need stats to prove what is already plain as day?

Yeah, I do watch the games, but I'm skeptical of anybody that also allegedly does and maintains a position that Boobie Dixon is 'obviously' 'plain as day' a better RB than Fred Jackson. I like Boobie, and what he can bring to the table on a limited basis. Hell, I'm even willing to give Brown another season to put up or gtfo as a reserve. But, if one of them has to go I'll keep the better back (Jackson) to give Shady a breather and let loose a less accomplished player (Brown or Dixon).

[OpIv37]

Everyone is so hung up on Jackson that they are neglecting the mention of Incognito.

I repeat: If he gets cut, then the only thing added to last year's atrocious OL is a 3rd round rookie. Not nearly good enough.

[YardRat]

Holy crap! 7 pages worth of crap devoted to Fred Jackson when I intended this thread to be about the quarterback competition.

Carucci calls Tyrod Taylor, "A clear favorite of coach Rex Ryan," and everyone goes nuts over a 34 year old running back that is playing in his last year.

I was surprised that Carucci said Taylor was the quote above. Apparently, that flew over all your heads.

It's the quarterback, stupid.

You should have done a better job crafting the op, then, if you intended to steer the conversation in the QB direction only.

[BillsImpossible]

You should have done a better job crafting the op, then, if you intended to steer the conversation in the QB direction only.

Do you realize how many posts I could have made out of this one?

You know what, YardRat? You've inspired me.

[YardRat]

Everyone is so hung up on Jackson that they are neglecting the mention of Incognito.

I repeat: If he gets cut, then the only thing added to last year's atrocious OL is a 3rd round rookie. Not nearly good enough.

I don't think it will be a surprise if Incognito gets cut. Everybody knows this is his last chance and he has a long absence to overcome. If I were to rank the players mentioned, as far as least surprising cut to most surprising, it would probably go..Goodwin, Incognito, Manuel, Jackson, Harvin.

- - - Updated - - -



You know what, YardRat? You've inspired me.

I get that a lot.

[Buffalogic]

Boobie just needs more attempts Rat. Giving him less carries isn't the right answer.

[YardRat]

Boobie just needs more attempts Rat. Giving him less carries isn't the right answer.

I'd be fine with Shady-Freddie-Boobie and Williams.
Not so much with Shady-Freddie-Brown and Williams.
Shady-Boobie-Brown and Williams? Not this season.

[OpIv37]

I don't think it will be a surprise if Incognito gets cut. Everybody knows this is his last chance and he has a long absence to overcome. If I were to rank the players mentioned, as far as least surprising cut to most surprising, it would probably go..Goodwin, Incognito, Manuel, Jackson, Harvin.

- - - Updated - - -



I get that a lot.

I don't disagree with any of that. I've expressed concerns about Incognito myself. I'm just disappointed that the team spent so much on fancy new toys while neglecting the biggest problem from last year (ok, fine, QB was the biggest problem but we weren't fixing that this off-season so it's irrelevant). Incognito and a 3rd round rookie is not good enough.

And if the OL sucks, it will largely negate the effectiveness of Shady, Watkins and Clay. If anything, I think the lack of OL proficiency makes Jackson more likely to stay on the roster, solely for pass-blocking ability.

[Buffalogic]

^ neglecting implies they didn't try. They attempted to get Iupati and drafted OL with their second pick.

- - - Updated - - -


I'd be fine with Shady-Freddie-Boobie and Williams.
Not so much with Shady-Freddie-Brown and Williams.
Shady-Boobie-Brown and Williams? Not this season.
This is what it should be IMO.

[OpIv37]

^ neglecting implies they didn't try. They attempted to get Iupati and drafted OL with their second pick.

- - - Updated - - -


This is what it should be IMO.

This is the NFL, not Little League. There are no trophies for effort. Trying and failing is still failing. It still means we aren't good enough on the field.

[Buffalogic]

^The point was it's not neglecting. I never said it wasn't a fail.

[YardRat]

'Neglect' = to fail to care for properly. 'Ignore' = 'fail to consider, disregard intentionally'. Maybe the team didn't completely ignore the need to upgrade the oline, but the lack of effort relative to the same given to other positions definitely qualifies as neglect. This crew can't even be accused of playing Madden, because they're still dicking around with Fantasy Football from the '90's.

[GingerP]

Boobie just needs more attempts Rat. Giving him less carries isn't the right answer.

Dixon has a career 3.5 YPC average. He has 17 receptions total, in 5 seasons. FJ had 66 receptions just last year. I get that Fred is 34, but he is still far superior to Dixon as an all-around back. He is their best back in pass protection and is a threat in the passing game (especially the screen game). He is also an emotional leader and heart-and-soul player who younger players look up to. Why would you remove that from the team?

[streetkings01]

Dixon has a career 3.5 YPC average. He has 17 receptions total, in 5 seasons. FJ had 66 receptions just last year. I get that Fred is 34, but he is still far superior to Dixon as an all-around back. He is their best back in pass protection and is a threat in the passing game (especially the screen game). He is also an emotional leader and heart-and-soul player who younger players look up to. Why would you remove that from the team?You know what heat and soul and emotional leader on a losing team means to me?

[GingerP]

You know what heat and soul and emotional leader on a losing team means to me?

You ever hear of Dick Butkus? There is not more "heart & soul" player in NFL history, but he never won anything because he played on some crappy Bears teams.

There are good players on bad teams. FJ hasn't been picking the QB's around here the last 15 years.

[better days]

And people need to look at Rex & his past with running backs.

Rex has had a lot of success with RB's well past their prime.

If Fred is not on this team Sept 1 it will be a SHOCK to me.

[SpikedLemonade]

Keep Freddie for another year given we are in a "win now" mode.

Cut whichever one of Dixon, Brown and Williams that looks the worst after pre-season.

I doubt whichever one of them that is cut would offer so much more next year than another RB we draft or pick up to replace Freddie next year.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

This thread got a little nuts

[trapezeus]

i think if you keep fred hoping he's a 2-3 down back, then it's absurd to be loyal to him out of love.

however, if you see a limited role and can't think of player more likely to do that role well and keep the other players focused, then there is value.


i don't think anyone thinks fred is who he was 5 years ago. and i would suspect everyone of us thinks he retires after the contract expires.

it's one year, and bryce brown and boobie were not that great when they had the workload in a few games. bryce still fumbled a game away. and the game where boobie had the majority of carries, he didn't wear down the opposition and he didn't have any memorable runs.
i think dixon is more versatile with ST and being a different type of runner. bryce brown never panned out they way the eagles or the bills wanted.
karlos can prove brown is expendable. and if that's the case, we are down to 4 backs.

[Buffalogic]

Dixon has a career 3.5 YPC average. He has 17 receptions total, in 5 seasons. FJ had 66 receptions just last year. I get that Fred is 34, but he is still far superior to Dixon as an all-around back. He is their best back in pass protection and is a threat in the passing game (especially the screen game). He is also an emotional leader and heart-and-soul player who younger players look up to. Why would you remove that from the team?Dixon was asked to be only a short yardage back in San Fran. He's only had over 100 attempts once in his career. It was last year. He responded with 4.1 YPC and had a couple 20+ yard runs and a 50 yard run. We should be giving him more carries, not giving them to a 34 year old guy on the decline. Jackson's stats have been bad over the last couple years and they are going to get worse. To me it is obvious our best one, two punch is McCoy and Dixon.

[better days]

Well, You can bet your ass Fred isn't going anywhere this year.

Fred was on WGR this morning & it was announced Fred will be on WGR Monday mornings talking Bills football.

[Buffalogic]

^ because he will no longer be on a team.

[gebobs]

1000 rushing yards ain't dick so 1000 combined rushing and receiving is a joke. I don't get why some of you overvalue him so much.
Assuming the Bills keep three backs other than McCoy, which three do you suppose can fill Jackson's role as a runner, blocker and a receiver?

[gebobs]

To me it is obvious our best one, two punch is McCoy and Dixon.
Ohhhh....ok! I got ya. Just going with two backs.

[gebobs]

^ because he will no longer be on a team.

Care to make it interesting? How about a double sawbuck?

[Buffalogic]

Phew Bobs I don't think I have enough faith in the organization to make the right move here with all the emotions wrapped up in it to wager for it.

[Buffalogic]

Assuming the Bills keep three backs other than McCoy, which three do you suppose can fill Jackson's role as a runner, blocker and a receiver?
If they keep three it should be McCoy-Dixon-Brown.

[better days]

If they keep three it should be McCoy-Dixon-Brown.

You want the Bills to keep Brown so you can have a player to ***** about.

[Buffalogic]

^ We still have EJ. Brown has potential.

[swiper]

Everyone is so hung up on Jackson that they are neglecting the mention of Incognito.

I repeat: If he gets cut, then the only thing added to last year's atrocious OL is a 3rd round rookie. Not nearly good enough.

Our guy went to Dallas. http://www.talkbuffalosports.com/image.php?u=524&dateline=1352551313

Can't blame Rex for not trying though.

[Mace]

This is the NFL, not Little League. There are no trophies for effort. Trying and failing is still failing. It still means we aren't good enough on the field.

Until we are good enough on the field though, will and effort still mean a a lot as in plowing Watt or that stiff arm, until someone else does it better, in which case well fine.

Terrell Owens was about our most skilled receiver in 2009 even in decline, but I don't remember his jogging out routes where he wasn't on the menu, with his arms at his sides, adding anything to the plate.

When someone beats out Jackson, they beat out Jackson. Hasn't happened yet. I don't really think with all these backs, and again you easily find backs, it's going to be any kind of a key roster position to weep about in any case, so I have no clue why people are that upset about Jackson, who still stiff armed a safety into oblivion and sacrificed himself into Watt...last season...until one of the other guys do it, and they haven't at this point.

[YardRat]

Hell, Jackson's more valuable to keep around one more season for just mentoring the young backs that fill out the roster. When it comes to preparation, dedication, effort, etc when somebody speaks who are you going to listen to, FJax or Bryce Brown?

[better days]

^ We still have EJ. Brown has potential.

EJ has MORE potential than Brown.

Brown was traded by the Eagles to the Bills because he can't hold on to the football (He should have gone to the Pats* he probably could have had better luck hanging on to their deflated footballs)

[Buffalogic]

Ej sucks dude. Get over it.

[streetkings01]

Hell, Jackson's more valuable to keep around one more season for just mentoring the young backs that fill out the roster. When it comes to preparation, dedication, effort, etc when somebody speaks who are you going to listen to, FJax or Bryce Brown?how much mentoring do young running backs really need? There's a reason why running backs get pushed out the door once they hit 30........teams don't keep them around to mentor the younger guys they move on from them.

[Historian]

I believe it was Mr Pegula that stated, "Fred Jackson isn't going anywhere."

[better days]

Ej sucks dude. Get over it.

EJ may suck.

But so does Brown.

We will see which of those two are on the team Sept 1.

My money is on EJ.

[gebobs]

If they keep three it should be McCoy-Dixon-Brown.
Only three backs? Or

I'll see your fumble going into the end zone for the knockout punch KC and raise you one stiff arm to put the Bears away. Throw in the best blocker, invaluable experience, and leadership...it just doesn't add up. Spiller is twice the back that either Dixon or Brown was and even h doesn't match up with the old man. I appreciate your trolling here, but cutting FJ is not going to happen.

The double sawbuck offer stands. Put your money where your mouth is.

[Buffalogic]

Lol trolling. People are so sensitive about Jackson it's borderline disgusting. Chris Konte sucks. I could stiff arm him 5 yards too. When your two main argument points for keeping a 34 year old rb around is "invaluable experience and leadership" you're just making my point for me. But it's ok, you seem to confuse Jackson's personality with on field production.

[gebobs]

Lol trolling.
When you won't make a little bet for a measly twenty bucks, what else can I presume?


People are so sensitive about Jackson it's borderline disgusting. Chris Konte sucks. I could stiff arm him 5 yards too. When your two main argument points for keeping a 34 year old rb around is "invaluable experience and leadership" you're just making my point for me. But it's ok, you seem to confuse Jackson's personality with on field production.

When your two arguments for cutting him are Boobie Dixon and Bryce Brown, you have no point.

[Buffalogic]

^ his poor stats currently along with him only getting worse and often injured as well as his salary. And whether you choose to believe it or not Boobie is a better back at this stage. Take emotion out of it and Jackson should be cut plain and simple.

[Goobylal]

^ his poor stats currently along with him only getting worse and often injured as well as his salary. And whether you choose to believe it or not Boobie is a better back at this stage. Take emotion out of it and Jackson should be cut plain and simple.
Boobie may be a better RB at this stage. However Fred's a far better receiver and a better blocker.

[gebobs]

And whether you choose to believe it or not Boobie is a better back at this stage.

Put up or shut up.

[gebobs]

Boobie may be a better RB at this stage. However Fred's a far better receiver and a better blocker.

All part and parcel of being a back in the NFL.

[Buffalogic]

Put up or shut up.
Put up what? I guess you have to bet on everything you think?? Get a clue.

[JoeMama]

I'm glad that tis was the first reply because it was my first thought. I want Fred to retire after his last season as a Bill. He is far and away my favorite of all time.... an underdog on an underdog team. I'm a huge sap, I know.

No shame in that, brother.

F-Jax at least gave us some happy moments during an otherwise dumpster fire decade of a dumpster fire franchise.

[Mouldsie]

How many times do we have to have a Fred hating fest only to have him shove it in our ungrateful faces and prove his doubters wrong? He's the clear #2 RB in terms of production and value to the team.

If Tyrod Taylor 'wins' the QB job then I'll be pretty skeptical of Rex. He certainly prefers "his guys" possibly to his own detriment. Tony Steward was an enraging draft pick for example.

Cordy Glenn is our best OL. If he's not starting then there is something seriously wrong.

**** this thread.

[YardRat]

how much mentoring do young running backs really need? There's a reason why running backs get pushed out the door once they hit 30........teams don't keep them around to mentor the younger guys they move on from them.

Fred Jackson isn't the average running back, when it comes to intangibles. If Shady and/or Williams can aspire to and become half the pro Freddie has been, even if it is for a limited window, it is well worth it.

[better days]

How many times do we have to have a Fred hating fest only to have him shove it in our ungrateful faces and prove his doubters wrong? He's the clear #2 RB in terms of production and value to the team.

If Tyrod Taylor 'wins' the QB job then I'll be pretty skeptical of Rex. He certainly prefers "his guys" possibly to his own detriment. Tony Steward was an enraging draft pick for example.

Cordy Glenn is our best OL. If he's not starting then there is something seriously wrong.

**** this thread.

I have been a proponent of keeping Cordy at LT.

But if Henderson is a BETTER LT than Cordy & Kujo can play RT, with Cordy at LG & Miller or Incognito at RG, this Bills OL could surprise a LOT of people.

[Mr. Pink]

Here's my surprise cut...Tyrod Taylor.

For how much some on here have talked up this guy I think it would be absolutely hysterical if he doesn't make the roster.

Plus I think Matt Simms has as much chance at seeing real snaps behind center anyway.

[gebobs]

Put up what? I guess you have to bet on everything you think??

Not even. I hate gambling, but this is no gamble. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that the old man is going to get cut.

[Meathead]

ive already bet somebody one hundred trillion dollars that ej starts the season

im not quite as confident in my freddie gets cut prediction, so how about one hundred billion. you know im good for it

[WagonCircler]

Not even. I hate gambling, but this is no gamble. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that the old man is going to get cut.

I don't think Terry P is the type of guy to throw his weight around on personnel matters, but I think in this case, he just might.

Cutting Fred, especially after drafting a bunch of woman beating, drug dealing punks and trading for an ass wipe RB who doesn't know how to keep his pie hole shut, would be a PR nightmare.

Fred might just be the classiest Bill ever, and should/would be the face of the organization, were it not for Rex's big personality.

I don't think Fred's going anywhere. I'll be pissed if he does.

[Meathead]

Cutting Fred, especially after drafting a bunch of woman beating, drug dealing punks and trading for an ass wipe RB who doesn't know how to keep his pie hole shut, would be a PR nightmare.


if theres a good reason to keep freddie this is it. youre right, he might be the stabilizing fatherly this shady group needs

sure would be great to see him one more season. but i still think they will cut him tho

[better days]

I don't think Terry P is the type of guy to throw his weight around on personnel matters, but I think in this case, he just might.

Cutting Fred, especially after drafting a bunch of woman beating, drug dealing punks and trading for an ass wipe RB who doesn't know how to keep his pie hole shut, would be a PR nightmare.

Fred might just be the classiest Bill ever, and should/would be the face of the organization, were it not for Rex's big personality.

I don't think Fred's going anywhere. I'll be pissed if he does.

It is a SMALL minority that would be happy to see Fred off the team this year.

[WagonCircler]

this shady group needs

I see what you did there.

[Forward_Lateral]

If they cut Fred, I will be furious. You don't cut your heart out of your body.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I doubt there will be too many surprises. The only one I could see happening would be Leodis McKelvin. He could wind up 4th on the depth chart if Darby takes his spot and Graham returns to corner.

[better days]

I doubt there will be too many surprises. The only one I could see happening would be Leodis McKelvin. He could wind up 4th on the depth chart if Darby takes his spot and Graham returns to corner.

If the Bills wanted to get rid of McKelvin, he has value & could be traded.

No way he is cut.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If the Bills wanted to get rid of McKelvin, he has value & could be traded.

No way he is cut.

Maybe, but it would be one of those "Veteran for a 6th rounder" type deals like Mike Williams got.

[Victor7]

ive already bet somebody one hundred trillion dollars that ej starts the season

im not quite as confident in my freddie gets cut prediction, so how about one hundred billion. you know im good for it

I hope you are saving up meat.

I'm gonna come collect my money bro

[SpikedLemonade]

I hope you are saving up meat.

I'm gonna come collect my money bro

Hey Victor.

Someone told me that someone is posting under my account at The Range. I went to see and it appears to be true. I have not personally posted there for at least a year.

Any idea what is going on?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Hey Victor.

Someone told me that someone is posting under my account at The Range. I went to see and it appears to be true. I have not personally posted there for at least a year.

Any idea what is going on?

Everybody over there is LiterateStylish apparently.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Fuxkinhug

LiterateLiterate, Lit lit Literate. Literate!

Literate?

[Victor7]

Hey Victor.

Someone told me that someone is posting under my account at The Range. I went to see and it appears to be true. I have not personally posted there for at least a year.

Any idea what is going on?

Hey E how's it going?

I figured it wasn't you.

I think we all know who it is

[WagonCircler]

For any former Rangers who want a good laugh:

http://www.buffalorange.com/hard-core-buffalo-bills-talk/215828-straightj-actually-literate-stylish-smoking-gun.html

[better days]

Maybe, but it would be one of those "Veteran for a 6th rounder" type deals like Mike Williams got.

Nonsense. CB is a MUCH NEEDED position in the NFL, just look at the CHEATING Patriots*.

They would LOVE to have McKelvin.

I don't see the Bills cutting ties with him this year, but if they did I would expect at least a 3rd or 4th rnd pick for him.

[swiper]

I don't think Terry P is the type of guy to throw his weight around on personnel matters, but I think in this case, he just might.

Cutting Fred, especially after drafting a bunch of woman beating, drug dealing punks and trading for an ass wipe RB who doesn't know how to keep his pie hole shut, would be a PR nightmare.

Fred might just be the classiest Bill ever, and should/would be the face of the organization, were it not for Rex's big personality.

I don't think Fred's going anywhere. I'll be pissed if he does.

I'll do you one better. FJax will not only stay. He'll be more productive. What the jack@sses who want him cut fail to see or admit is that the o-line stunk last year. Put Jackson behind the line he had a couple of years ago and he'll be fine.

[swiper]

Hey E how's it going?

I figured it wasn't you.

I think we all know who it is

It is Lit, Michael, StraightJ, TripleP, jlb. It's all the same person.

[justasportsfan]

If you want to keep Fred Jackson because he's a leader and a warrior, that's perfectly understandable. I can even agree with it. But recognize that is an emotional argument and not a rational one. Trying to defend Jackson based on his stats is just not a winning argument.

Imagine that Jackson wasn't on the team and I came and said

"There's a free agent I think you guys should look at:

-He'll be 34 years old this season
-He's missed games in three of the last four years and been IR'd twice
-He put up a 3.7 yards per carry last year. He had only one run longer than 20 yards on the entire season, and it was only his 2nd since 2011.
-He was the primary ballcarrier on a bottom 3rd rushing offense
-He was tied for 2nd in fumbles by a halfback, despite most of his contemporaries having 60-100 more touches then him. And this was not even his worst year in that regard.
-His salary is $2.6 million

But on the plus side:
-He is a beast pass blocker
-He is a good receiver option (with the caveat that most of his fumbles came on receptions)
-He is a locker room leader"

How many are inking that contract?
Things is we know who he is and what he brings.
The options are not better so I'll keep him over boobie or brown

[Goobylal]

I'll do you one better. FJax will not only stay. He'll be more productive. What the jack@sses who want him cut fail to see or admit is that the o-line stunk last year. Put Jackson behind the line he had a couple of years ago and he'll be fine.
He was also battling a groin injury. But again, ultimately it will be production that determines whether he stays.

[swiper]

While a veteran Buffalo football writer questions the stable of current Bills QBs, our old DC is talking up his veteran starter:

Pettine: Browns couldn’t have brought in a better QB than McCown (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/07/pettine-browns-couldnt-have-brought-in-a-better-qb-than-mccown/)
The only saving grace is the news that Tom Brady's replacement is throwing a lot of INTs in practice.

[YardRat]

While a veteran Buffalo football writer questions the stable of current Bills QBs, our old DC is talking up his veteran starter:

Pettine: Browns couldn’t have brought in a better QB than McCown (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/07/pettine-browns-couldnt-have-brought-in-a-better-qb-than-mccown/)


The only saving grace is the news that Tom Brady's replacement is throwing a lot of INTs in practice.

Well, to be fair and consistent with a comparison, we'd have to see what a veteran Browns' reporter is saying about McCown, not the coach. Sexy Rexy has been talking up Taylor quite a bit, after all.

[better days]

While a veteran Buffalo football writer questions the stable of current Bills QBs, our old DC is talking up his veteran starter:

Pettine: Browns couldn’t have brought in a better QB than McCown (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/07/pettine-browns-couldnt-have-brought-in-a-better-qb-than-mccown/)


The only saving grace is the news that Tom Brady's replacement is throwing a lot of INTs in practice.

Well, I saw all I wanted to see of McCown last year on the Bucs.

I am HAPPY he went to the Browns.

[better days]

But I do have to thank McCown for the first pick in the draft this year for the Bucs.

[Goobylal]

Yeah, McCown was brutal for TB last year. Good luck with that. Especially considering they have no receivers.

[better days]

Yeah, McCown was brutal for TB last year. Good luck with that. Especially considering they have no receivers.

It would not surprise me if the Browns get the first pick in the draft this year.

And that could cost Pettine his job.

[swiper]

Well, I saw all I wanted to see of McCown last year on the Bucs.

I am HAPPY he went to the Browns.

Right. Coaches are supposed to hype their QB (obviously Pettine is hyping a bad one). And reporters are supposed to offer critical views of the teams.

[Dude]

For any former Rangers who want a good laugh:

http://www.buffalorange.com/hard-core-buffalo-bills-talk/215828-straightj-actually-literate-stylish-smoking-gun.htmlThere are some seriously delusional and ignorant people over there.

btw evidently I'm the "dickwad admin over at the Zone" and I have personal information on all of you, have a copy of the user database from the Range, and you will all be banned for no reason.

Oh, and we screen potential members to make sure they aren't former Range posters, which makes total sense given how many former Range posters we have.

Holy crap, the ignorance is staggering.

:rofl:

[Mace]

There are some seriously delusional and ignorant people over there.

btw evidently I'm the "dickwad admin over at the Zone" and I have personal information on all of you, have a copy of the user database from the Range, and you will all be banned for no reason.

Oh, and we screen potential members to make sure they aren't former Range posters, which makes total sense given how many former Range posters we have.

Holy crap, the ignorance is staggering.

:rofl:

Here we go again, I guess.

[BillsImpossible]

Here we go again, I guess.

Anybody listening to the John Murphy Show?

At the start of the show he was talking about the most underrated player on the roster.

Then a caller mentioned Tyrod Taylor....

Murph mentioned how somebody recently predicted Taylor would be the starting QB.

I heard Matt Simms? Did I hear that right?

Will post audio when available.

[Goobylal]

Anybody listening to the John Murphy Show?

At the start of the show he was talking about the most underrated player on the roster.

Then a caller mentioned Tyrod Taylor....

Murph mentioned how somebody recently predicted Taylor would be the starting QB.

I heard Matt Simms? Did I hear that right?

Will post audio when available.
It was Chris Simms.

[Jimkelly12203]

Hey Victor.

Someone told me that someone is posting under my account at The Range. I went to see and it appears to be true. I have not personally posted there for at least a year.

Any idea what is going on?

Yeah i read that post. Something about the beginning of the universe or something like that... I think there might have been a religious element to it. I bit. I thought "cool, SL dropped by to say hi". Nothing would surprise me on that site at this point.

- - - Updated - - -


Everybody over there is LiterateStylish apparently.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6Fuxkinhug

LiterateLiterate, Lit lit Literate. Literate!

Literate?

It's a lot like Mr. Smith in the Matrix. Or so i've been told.

[BertSquirtgum]

He hasn't hacked my name yet. So I pretty much argue with lit and his ten other personalities.

[WagonCircler]

Anybody listening to the John Murphy Show?

At the start of the show he was talking about the most underrated player on the roster.

Then a caller mentioned Tyrod Taylor....

Murph mentioned how somebody recently predicted Taylor would be the starting QB.

I heard Matt Simms? Did I hear that right?

Will post audio when available.

I don't understand. So does Murph think Matt Simms or Tyrod is the most underrated player on the roster?

I'm still kind of scratching my head over the Simms signing. If Rex loves Tyrod as much as everyone says he does, and if he was on board with signing Cassell, then where does Simms fit in, unless EJ is on the outs (hopefully)?

After the QB debacle with the Jets last year, it's hard to believe that Rex goes into the season without a veteran, steady QB, either as a backup or starter. So I don't see Cassell going anywhere.

I don't know. It's going to be an interesting camp.

[WagonCircler]

...and I have personal information on all of you

I hope you won't rat me out to Derek Jeter about hanging out with Hannah these past few months. We've tried to be as discreet as possible. (BTW, I'm the horse from those commercials).

[Dude]

I hope you won't rat me out to Derek Jeter about hanging out with Hannah these past few months. We've tried to be as discreet as possible. (BTW, I'm the horse from those commercials).

Yes, I knew that already because I've hacked into all of your accounts. Duh.