How a Rookie Head Coach Derailed a Rookie Quarterback, then Vanished with $4 Million

[The King]

Very Interesting read. Stats don't tell the whole story but Saint Doug left a lot of unanswered questions.



In 2013, after enduring eight straight losing seasons, the last four of which saw records of either 4-12 or 6-10, the Buffalo Bills (http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/buffalo-bills-team) drafted what they believed was the number one quarterback in the 2013 draft. They selected EJ Manuel (http://www.foxsports.com/collegefootball/player/ej-manuel/738371) with pick 16 of the first round. He was the highest drafted quarterback by the Bills since they drafted Jim Kelly 14th overall in 1983.

Despite EJ Manuel posting the 4th best passer rating ever in NFL history for a rookie playing 3 games in weeks 1-3, and despite EJ Manuel excelling on 1st down unlike most rookie quarterbacks the NFL has seen, another rookie stepped in to break up the party. Rookie head coach Doug Marrone stripped Manuel of his ability to pass on the early downs after 3 games. And just like that, after 3 weeks, Marrone seemed to direct an offense which would ultimately render impotent Manuel's best chance for NFL success.



Full Article (http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/how-a-rookie-head-coach-derailed-a-rookie-quarterback-then-vanished-with-4-million-071515)

[feldspar]

What's Nate Hackett, chopped liver? I mean he called the offensive plays in general, didn't he? Not Marrone?

[Novacane]

So glad he quit!

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I don't hate that guy, but I damn well hate how he just quit on us.

[Albany,n.y.]

I doubt this guy saw any of the games he's talking about.
If he had seen the Jets game, he would have known why the reigns were pulled back on Manuel. Like too many stat boys, the writer relies too much on black & white stats than actually watching the games.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I doubt this guy saw any of the games he's talking about.
If he had seen the Jets game, he would have known why the reigns were pulled back on Manuel. Like too many stat boys, the writer relies too much on black & white stats than actually watching the games.You mean the same Jets game that Marrone abandoned pass blocking?

[better days]

What's Nate Hackett, chopped liver? I mean he called the offensive plays in general, didn't he? Not Marrone?

It was reported that Marrone told Hackett to scale back his offense & be more conservative.

[Oaf]

Warren Sharp is a smart guy. Cool article. Marrone was truly a typo for moron. What a setback we had to endure.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I swear to you Marrone and Murlarkey are the same guy.

[better days]

I swear to you Marrone and Murlarkey are the same guy.

Well, I have never seen the two of them in the same room.

[BillsImpossible]

That was a fun read. It gives me hope that EJ Manuel is better than we think he his.

Very interesting stats, he's not cherry picking either.

EJ Manuel is very good at passing on 1st downs. I never knew that.

The numbers are quite obvious and point directly to Marrone's mishandling of the offense.

Not only was he arrogant, Marrone was a stubborn jerk that ignored the analytics department and disrespected their numbers along with everyone else at OBD.

EJ got off to a great start as a rookie. Doug Marrone effed him up.

16 days to go!

On a side note, I must admit that when Doug Whaley and Doug Marrone got in to a heated argument on the sidelines at training camp last year, I supported the wrong guy, and the wrong quarterback.

The Bills would have been much better off starting Manuel all 16 games last year.

[Mace]

That was a fun read. It gives me hope that EJ Manuel is better than we think he his.

Very interesting stats, he's not cherry picking either.

EJ Manuel is very good at passing on 1st downs. I never knew that.

The numbers are quite obvious and point directly to Marrone's mishandling of the offense.

Not only was he arrogant, Marrone was a stubborn jerk that ignored the analytics department and disrespected their numbers along with everyone else at OBD.

EJ got off to a great start as a rookie. Doug Marrone effed him up.

16 days to go!

On a side note, I must admit that when Doug Whaley and Doug Marrone got in to a heated argument on the sidelines at training camp last year, I supported the wrong guy, and the wrong quarterback.

The Bills would have been much better off starting Manuel all 16 games last year.

Without getting into another detailed argument about it (as I go into too much detail), the proof will be in the pudding anyway this year, I still don't think Manuel has ever so much been consistently anything (like bad) because he hasn't had a long run of games to break out of a learning pattern, the most starts he's had in a row for one reason or another is 5, his rookie year, in two pieces.

-no QB coach first year, transitioning from spread with minimal reads to high speed west coast reads under center, no vet mentor
-bad QB coach 2nd year, bipolar offensive philosophy, vet who doesn't mentor so just watch
-real QB coach 3rd year (if of dubious quality atm imho), new offense again, new vet unknown in terms of mentoring

He came out as a developmental prospect and wasn't developed. Cut down on his mistakes to some extent unfortunately losing his confidence and becoming a Trent Edwards, we want you to run, no don't run, air it out, no don't air it out and make mistakes, you're trying too hard not to make mistakes, ok go sit down.....

To date the developmental project wasn't developed and now he has to produce anyway.

You get what you pay for, and that's what we did with him. I don't see it as his fault though now it doesn't matter, sink or swim kid, but I don't think he clearly busted yet.

Falls on the organization no matter how you look at it, Nix/Whaley, Marrone/Hackett/Downing.

If Manuel can make something of it after all this, I give him credit, and I'm rooting for him honsetly, even if it's unpopular to hope for him.

[Meathead]

the problem is that defense was built for the playoffs. the offense wasnt bad but was crippled by an oline that couldnt sustain protection so you needed a qb to make relatively quick decisions

ejs last two games he was so bad he basically pulled himself. when youve got orton sitting right there you pretty much have to play him at that point. if the team was a real bottom feeder then you let ej play it out but they werent

[JoeMama]

I have no hard feelings for Doug Marrone.

He got us to 9-7, which is more you can say for the previous two bums who collected paychecks from this franchise.

It ain't great, but it's something, I guess.

And look, he's going to pay for his sins. He's suck in JACKSONVILLE, FL with the JAGUARS. And me!

[GreedoII]

It was Russ Brandon's hire. Glad this clown is no longer running things. Also that old Hillbilly Buddy Nix was behind the EJ pick too so the combined efforts of these two idiots was the reason all of this happened as well as the lack of awareness and competency to draft a QB earlier than they did instead of giving a huge contract to a bum stiff like Fitz. Man these two ass clowns ruined this team for years.

[better days]

the problem is that defense was built for the playoffs. the offense wasnt bad but was crippled by an oline that couldnt sustain protection so you needed a qb to make relatively quick decisions

ejs last two games he was so bad he basically pulled himself. when youve got orton sitting right there you pretty much have to play him at that point. if the team was a real bottom feeder then you let ej play it out but they werent

IMO, It would have been fine to pull EJ for a few games. The mistake was to never play him again.

Even after Orton lost to the Raiders to keep the Bills out of the playoffs.

The only thing left to play for at that point was to develop the team including EJ for next year.

[Meathead]

i think the only valid criticism of nix and whaley is that they didnt throw a pick or three at a middle round qb at least once in a while

so they forced themselves to pick a qb that season, they traded down and still got the guy they decided was the best of that draft (still tbd), so im fine with that pick in and of itself

fitz was playing at a probowl level when they extended him. nobody knew he would immediately pull a jauron at that point

marrone was the second best rookie hc candidate that year, behind only the winnie the pooh lookin *****, so that was a good hire at the time

[trapezeus]

the stats are interesting and he describes it as pretty much a signifcant change in philosphy in week 4. it wasn't gradual. and it seems like maybe marrone was the stat junkie who saw poor 3rd down performance and conservatively decided to throttle the whole offense down a gear instead of seeing the success on 1st down as the key to avoid 3rd and long. Marrone definitely comes off as a guy who doesn't break down the figures well and really isn't much of a strategic guy. he just likes to do what he wants to do and hopes everyone can do it.

on the flip side, we've seen a lot of NFL qb's look good for the first 3-4 weeks, get figured out and struggle from there on out. i didn't really see that addressed in the article.

my feeling at this point is that ej was definitely hampered by the worst offensive coaching we've seen (and we've seen a lot of it over the years). However, the fact the new staff isn't raving about him, suggests that he probably had success because he was new. And more damning is that we all saw with our own eyes that his accuracy is weak.

had this staff seen him in OTA's and said, "well, that was odd that he didn't start last year from what we see," then this article would have really made me excited. but as it is right now, it seems to be taking the key piece of being brand new for weeks 1-3 out of the equation.

I hope EJ does magically get it in year three. Something that happens to a few players as well. but typically those guys had the chance to battle through poor performances on the field. Marrone's jettisoning the development of a qb, to win now and only get 9 wins and then ditch the team is disgusting. we should be angry at him for failing to deliver and handcuffing a team.

[better days]

I doubt EJ will ever become a pinpoint accurate QB like Brady or Peyton Manning.

But if he can get just a little more accuracy, EJ can also create with his legs which Brady & Manning can't do.

I can't wait until the pads go on & we can see all of the QB's compete for the job.

It has been said by all the Bills players that Roman has a very diverse, creative, thick playbook.

I think the QB that can master that playbook will likely be the starter.

[djjimkelly]

the EJ question should have been answered last year problem is we had a pop warner coach who had his own agenda

[justasportsfan]

I disliked Jauron but at least he had the balls to stick with the team.

I first didn't believe it when it was stated about Marrone looking after himself and his"brand" until he quit on the team.

I hope the bills pound the hell out of Marrones OL in England.

[JoeMama]

I disliked Jauron but at least he had the balls to stick with the team.

I first didn't believe it when it was stated about Marrone looking after himself and his"brand" until he quit on the team.

I hope the bills pound the hell out of Marrones OL in England.

I don't think you have to do much hoping.

The Jags o-line is a trainwreck.

I think we'll get 6+ sacks on Bort.

[Mr. Pink]

I disliked Jauron but at least he had the balls to stick with the team.

I first didn't believe it when it was stated about Marrone looking after himself and his"brand" until he quit on the team.

I hope the bills pound the hell out of Marrones OL in England.

Are you starting to come around on Jauron, Justa? ;)

[justasportsfan]

Are you starting to come around on Jauron, Justa? ;)

Ha! No. My opinion still stands. Dick was not HC material. He doesn't even work in the nfl anymore ,does he?

Nice guy, players respected him. He was a pop warner HC.

[Mr. Pink]

Ha! No. My opinion still stands. Dick was not HC material. He doesn't even work in the nfl anymore ,does he?

Nice guy, players respected him. He was a pop warner HC.

Still the best HC here since Wade. And I agree he's a DC not a HC.

[swiper]

How a Rookie Head Coach Derailed a Rookie Quarterback, then Vanished with $4 Million


Or more correctly: How the Rookie Head Coach lifted the lame franchise to it's first winning record in years, then left abruptly when he recognized the crappy GM was going to force his garbage QB pick on him for yet another season

[better days]

Or more correctly: How the Rookie Head Coach lifted the lame franchise to it's first winning record in years, then left abruptly when he recognized the crappy GM was going to force his garbage QB pick on him for yet another season

Yeah, that's what happened. LMAO.

[Bill Cody]

Or more correctly: How the Rookie Head Coach lifted the lame franchise to it's first winning record in years, then left abruptly when he recognized the crappy GM was going to force his garbage QB pick on him for yet another season

Here you go Marrone fan boy, click on this link and never look back, win/win for everyone.
http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/forum/6-the-jaguars/

[Historian]

I hold no ill-will towards Marrone, he did a good job here. Then he did the honorable thing if you're not 100% committed...he stepped down. (albeit with a pile of cash)

Given what has transpired in the last 7 months, I think it was a win-win for the organization and the fans, and if EJ has a future, I think you are going to find it out real quick. (say, by psg 2 or 3)

Personally, I don't know what to think. Half of me thinks he can't hit the broad side of a barn...the other half remembers the way he drove the team down and won the game against the Panthers as a rookie.

Which is the real EJ?

Most likely somewhere in=between.

Hopefully that's enough to compete at this level.

[Strongman]

Interesting article, although it leads one to believe Moron left us for the OL gig with Jacksonville when in fact Moron thought he was a hot commodity and would land a head coaching gig someplace else. After no other team (wisely) would hire him, he settled for the Jacksonville job.

Still, the article makes a very good case that EJ was shortchanged by the previous coaching regime.

[swiper]

Here you go Marrone fan boy, click on this link and never look back, win/win for everyone.
http://jungle.jaguars.com/index.php?/forum/6-the-jaguars/

I hated Marrone... but you two are pure idiots for ignoring the facts.

[BillsImpossible]

I hated Marrone... but you two are pure idiots for ignoring the facts.

Just because people don't have the same opinion as you do does not make them, 'idiots for ignoring the facts.'

I am a proud idiot. In the grand scheme of things, I know my opinions about the Bills don't mean squat.

We're all armchair quarterbacks here, let's not kid ourselves by pretending to be experts. We're dumb ass fans with opinions and they all stink like onions.

If we all thought alike, oh my God that would be horrible. You think you're bored now in pre-training camp mid July?

Imagine if everyone thought like I did. That would be terrifying.

Lighten up, Swiper. Things could be a lot worse.

[Mace]

Still the best HC here since Wade. And I agree he's a DC not a HC.

DB coach, not DC, and not either, no one wants him. His disciple Fewell found his niche, DB coach for Washington. I can agree he's a great guy. Well, no, I can't even do that. He was the most profoundly not human coach with the most complete lack of personality in the history of the franchise, and had no communication ability whatever.

So I fall back on "he was probably an ok person as he never was arrested that I remember, and I don't remember any players being upset with him, seemed to have a nice family I think, he was probably an ok DB coach, having been a DB, and being as he sure did like them, wasn't a good DC or HC after everyone realized he was incapable of thinking past Tampa-2, besides some marginal success before anyone realized it how fiercely he was married to it, had generally woeful sense of what was going on, and looked formidable in his hat while appearing emotionless and in control though he was in fact frozen in confusion."

He was only the best HC since Wade if you look at it in terms of him not being the worst HC since Bullough.

[swiper]

Proud idiot describes you quite well.

[better days]

Interesting article, although it leads one to believe Moron left us for the OL gig with Jacksonville when in fact Moron thought he was a hot commodity and would land a head coaching gig someplace else. After no other team (wisely) would hire him, he settled for the Jacksonville job.

Still, the article makes a very good case that EJ was shortchanged by the previous coaching regime.

Yeah, everyone including Marrone thought he was going to replace Rex on the Jets.

It would have made for an interesting season if that happened.

But I doubt Marrone ever gets a HC job again in the NFL.

[Strongman]

Yeah, everyone including Marrone thought he was going to replace Rex on the Jets.

It would have made for an interesting season if that happened.

But I doubt Marrone ever gets a HC job again in the NFL.

I don't think he'll ever be one again. He missed his window for finding a HC gig. After leaving us, he had maybe a week to find a new job and sign a contract before everyone else in the NFL discovered what a scumbag he is. The Jets were the only team that probably had any real interest in hiring him, but the tampering issue forced them to look elsewhere. After them, word quickly leaked out about what a two-faced sneak he is. It also gave teams time to research his "success" with us to discover we had a winning record despite him being a lousy HC.

[Bill Cody]

I hated Marrone... but you two are pure idiots for ignoring the facts.

Lol

[notacon]

A crappy head coach mishandles a QB for the Bills...and this is news?

Marrone sucks even more than Orton sucks.

[Mr. Pink]

DB coach, not DC, and not either, no one wants him. His disciple Fewell found his niche, DB coach for Washington. I can agree he's a great guy. Well, no, I can't even do that. He was the most profoundly not human coach with the most complete lack of personality in the history of the franchise, and had no communication ability whatever.

So I fall back on "he was probably an ok person as he never was arrested that I remember, and I don't remember any players being upset with him, seemed to have a nice family I think, he was probably an ok DB coach, having been a DB, and being as he sure did like them, wasn't a good DC or HC after everyone realized he was incapable of thinking past Tampa-2, besides some marginal success before anyone realized it how fiercely he was married to it, had generally woeful sense of what was going on, and looked formidable in his hat while appearing emotionless and in control though he was in fact frozen in confusion."

He was only the best HC since Wade if you look at it in terms of him not being the worst HC since Bullough.

Let's be real for a minute or three...

The teams he had here had a talent level on par with expansion team franchises, not the Panthers who were good from the jump, but teams like the Jags, Browns.

He had an anemic QB who was absolutely garbage and he gameplanned to hide the fact the QB was hot garbage beautifully. Keeping this team in games it had absolutely no business being in. The one year the Bills played the Colts and kept the game within one score, with JP throwing like 7 times in total. That Colts team was so head and shoulders and then some better than the Bills.

Defensively the team was lackluster but opportunistic, so he employed a scheme that made teams be absolutely perfect all the way down the field to beat them. Of course this leads for giving up a lot of yardage underneath but yards allowed doesn't really matter, just the scoreboard.

The teams he coached here overachieved. He had a 3-4 win team talent wise and got 7 out of them on a consistent basis. Yeah big picture that does suck as all you keep doing is middling but, outside of going 2-14 and grabbing the next big thing QB, not much was gonna turn around this franchise at that point.

All one needs to do is look at his successor did the following year with a lot of the same talent, Gailey went 4-12.