Pegula on new Bills stadium "it's nothing urgent right now"

[DetDannyWilliams]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/pegula-on-new-bills-stadium-its-nothing-urgent-right-now-20150730

[THATHURMANATOR]

Fine by me!

[Generalissimus Gibby]

The Ralph is fine. It may not be the newest thing, but its fine and its always in the top 25% of all league stadiums.

[Luisito23]

Fine by me!


Exactly...Pegula being the owner is the only thing that matters right now, the rest will come eventually.

[trapezeus]

i love the ralph with the site lines...but it is old. and the NFL literally clamored outloud every year since 2000 that a new stadium was necessary. t hat the fixes weren't enough. now there is no pressure from the league? that's crazy.

says something about the power of pegula.

but i would also say, i would like it to be a bit more structured for when they expect to move. the changes are nice, but it is narrow, it is still in the middle of no where, the pegulas could benefit from consolidating more downtown.

I would like to know that thye were aiming for something to start in 5Y and that they feel no pressure to be on target. i don't think the ralph's structure was designed to be a 50Y stadium....even with the rehab.

[OpIv37]

From the standpoint of the committed fan, the Ralph provides a great game day experience.

From the standpoint of expensive luxury boxes and shiny things to attract casual fans, the Ralph is lacking.

The league doesn't care about the committed fan because they already have our money. The market is tapped. They want the big money luxury boxes and the casual fans. So, there will be a new stadium under way by the year 7 opt out in the current lease.

[BillsImpossible]

There is simply not enough space in downtown Buffalo to host a football game.

Even after a billion dollars being spent on new bridges, widening entrance ramp lanes, and new roads, the lack of space persists.

Building a new stadium downtown is not going to happen any time soon.

It all boils down to the money...and the 10 year lease agreement the Bills made with Erie County and NYS.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-lease-agreement-approved-by-NFL-owners/95734442-975b-4de1-b463-48c0a6a2c0c2

I think Ralph knew that when he signed the agreement, the Bills home field would be in Orchard Park until at least 2022.

[BillsImpossible]

From the standpoint of the committed fan, the Ralph provides a great game day experience.

From the standpoint of expensive luxury boxes and shiny things to attract casual fans, the Ralph is lacking.

I totally disagree! The Ralph is not lacking in terms of shiny things to attract casual fans.

Last year I had the first time experience of not waiting in line for 30 minutes to get patted down like a criminal because I had Club Level seats....those red seats sandwiched in the middle of RWS that are often half empty.

No waiting in line to take a leak, an awesome bar with TV screens all over the place, and great food.

It was totally different from sitting in the endzone seats in my early 20's. A complete upgrade from what I was accustomed to.

The fans in the Club Level redzone seats were just as loyal and vocal, only pampered with heated coils from above, heated seats, and first class treatment.

But they were half empty.

Why?

Because there wasn't a Blue Light special in isle 13.

[OpIv37]

I totally disagree! The Ralph is not lacking in terms of shiny things to attract casual fans.

Last year I had the first time experience of not waiting in line for 30 minutes to get patted down like a criminal because I had Club Level seats....those red seats sandwiched in the middle of RWS that are often half empty.

No waiting in line to take a leak, an awesome bar with TV screens all over the place, and great food.

It was totally different from sitting in the endzone seats in my early 20's. A complete upgrade from what I was accustomed to.

The fans in the Club Level redzone seats were just as loyal and vocal, only pampered with heated coils from above, heated seats, and first class treatment.

But they were half empty.

Why?

Because there wasn't a Blue Light special in isle 13.

Not waiting in line and a full bar? News flash: most stadiums have full bars throughout the stadium. I can personally vouge that the Ravens, Redskins, Nats, Orioles and Capitals do.

[JoeMama]

If Terry Pegula says it, I'm on board.

He **** blocked lame Bon Jovi and that screwball Donald Trump from usurping my beloved Buffalo.

That makes Pegula and automatic awesome dude for life.

[GreedoII]

Russ in his ear on this one I'm sure since they put a ton of cash in fixing up the Ralph....

[Meathead]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MYP1OBZfFK0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[trapezeus]

There is simply not enough space in downtown Buffalo to host a football game.

Even after a billion dollars being spent on new bridges, widening entrance ramp lanes, and new roads, the lack of space persists.

Building a new stadium downtown is not going to happen any time soon.

It all boils down to the money...and the 10 year lease agreement the Bills made with Erie County and NYS.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Bills-lease-agreement-approved-by-NFL-owners/95734442-975b-4de1-b463-48c0a6a2c0c2

I think Ralph knew that when he signed the agreement, the Bills home field would be in Orchard Park until at least 2022.

how can the highlighted even be remotely true. Cities significantly larger than buffalo put their stadiums in their vibrant downtown. and it works fine.

Buffalo has a lot of unused space in the downtown area.

[better days]

how can the highlighted even be remotely true. Cities significantly larger than buffalo put their stadiums in their vibrant downtown. and it works fine.

Buffalo has a lot of unused space in the downtown area.

Maybe you are right there is room downtown.

But you are WRONG to say the Ralph is in the middle of nowhere.

It is quickly & easily accessible from a number of directions.

You want to talk middle of nowhere, go to Foxboro Mass sometime.

Now that is the middle of NOWHERE!

With limited access roads as well!

[OpIv37]

Having road access doesn't mean it isn't in the middle of nowhere.

Last time I was at the stadium, the only thing within walking distance was one or two bars and private homes. Contrast that with, say, the Ravens stadium. It's downtown and walking distance from bars, restaurants, hotels, public transportation, a casino, the tourist stuff at the Inner Harbor, the convention center, etc.

I don't mind that the Ralph is in the middle of nowhere, but be honest about it. Foxboro being worse doesn't make it any less true for our stadium.

[Jimkelly12203]

Folks may not realize it yet, but we're all going to hate it when there is a new stadium. Instead of tailgating in the wide-open fields and parking lots of the Ralph, we're going to be smack in the middle of a crowded down-town with multi-story parking lots. The stadium itself will be quite nice i'm sure. But the game day experience will absolutely decline.

[EricStratton]

For NFL stadiums, at least on the east coast, Baltimore seems to be the exception.

[Meathead]

Folks may not realize it yet, but we're all going to hate it when there is a new stadium. Instead of tailgating in the wide-open fields and parking lots of the Ralph, we're going to be smack in the middle of a crowded down-town with multi-story parking lots. The stadium itself will be quite nice i'm sure. But the game day experience will absolutely decline.

yeah it would be really hard to maintain any kind of tailgating similar to what we have/had at the ralph. space and safety limitations are a lot different in an urban setting than the hayfields of op. plus the nfl and the bills are slowly and steadily cracking down on the extent of outside parties even at the ralph so thats likely only to get more and more sanitized as time goes on. not all of that is bad, considering some of the drunken debauchery i ... err i mean others have engaged in over the years, but we are likely to lose most of that eras game day partying style

still, i would expect them to make some effort to retain the tailgating feel somehow. most likely it will be some kind of big party area or perhaps a party campaign shared by local establishments. whether that works or not is anybodys guess, probably not, but they will try

[WagonCircler]

He just wrote a check for $1.4 BIL. That will tend to buy you a little time.

[better days]

Having road access doesn't mean it isn't in the middle of nowhere.

Last time I was at the stadium, the only thing within walking distance was one or two bars and private homes. Contrast that with, say, the Ravens stadium. It's downtown and walking distance from bars, restaurants, hotels, public transportation, a casino, the tourist stuff at the Inner Harbor, the convention center, etc.

I don't mind that the Ralph is in the middle of nowhere, but be honest about it. Foxboro being worse doesn't make it any less true for our stadium.

You can get to the Ralph in about a half hour from anywhere in the Buffalo area.

That is not the middle of nowhere.

It takes HOURS, not an hour, but HOURS to get to the Stadium in Foxboro from Boston.

That is what the middle of nowhere is, a place FAR REMOVED, not a place 15 min to 1/2 an hour away.

[trapezeus]

buffalo needs to get over this idea that tailgating is the end-all be-all to the game day experience.

Having lots where you can have tailgates and have others be able to walk to 716 or another restaurant will put more people in the area gameday. even if you don't have tickets, more people can be in the area. a huge december game with everyone downtown celebrating a win would be awesome.

think of the sabres, if they can get to a cup again, you have the stadium full, you have 716 full, you have the viewing in the square full. they win the cup at home, it's going to be amazing.

Maybe a new event is that buffalonians fill downtown because there is space and and proximity to the stadium. it makes for an environment. and maybe some people still tailgate.

it can still be an amazing experience if the stadium location is downtown.

[OpIv37]

You can get to the Ralph in about a half hour from anywhere in the Buffalo area.

That is not the middle of nowhere.

It takes HOURS, not an hour, but HOURS to get to the Stadium in Foxboro from Boston.

That is what the middle of nowhere is, a place FAR REMOVED, not a place 15 min to 1/2 an hour away.
To me, the "middle of nowhere" means there is nothing else around it that will attract people, not how long it takes to drive there.

[OpIv37]

buffalo needs to get over this idea that tailgating is the end-all be-all to the game day experience.

Having lots where you can have tailgates and have others be able to walk to 716 or another restaurant will put more people in the area gameday. even if you don't have tickets, more people can be in the area. a huge december game with everyone downtown celebrating a win would be awesome.

think of the sabres, if they can get to a cup again, you have the stadium full, you have 716 full, you have the viewing in the square full. they win the cup at home, it's going to be amazing.

Maybe a new event is that buffalonians fill downtown because there is space and and proximity to the stadium. it makes for an environment. and maybe some people still tailgate.

it can still be an amazing experience if the stadium location is downtown.

I don't disagree with this, but I honestly feel that tailgating and cheap tickets are what saved the team. It's what kept people coming out through a stretch of atrocious football from which we have yet to recover.

Obviously Pegula is committed and there is very little chance of the team leaving as long as he is the owner, but he may not always be the owner. If the team goes through another 15 year stretch like the current one, no one will be paying for tickets or parking at an expensive downtown venue.

[better days]

To me, the "middle of nowhere" means there is nothing else around it that will attract people, not how long it takes to drive there.

Well it is obvious you have never had to drive far to get to a Stadium.

I have gone to Foxboro from Boston a few times, a LONG BORING ride.

[OpIv37]

Well it is obvious you have never had to drive far to get to a Stadium.

I have gone to Foxboro from Boston a few times, a LONG BORING ride.
Uhh, I grew up in Webster, which is the east side of Rochester. We only went to a game a year or so, but that's a long drive. You need to quit making so many assumptions.

But once again we are off topic. The Ralph is in the middle of nowhere in the sense that there is nothing else to do around it on game day.

[better days]

buffalo needs to get over this idea that tailgating is the end-all be-all to the game day experience.

Having lots where you can have tailgates and have others be able to walk to 716 or another restaurant will put more people in the area gameday. even if you don't have tickets, more people can be in the area. a huge december game with everyone downtown celebrating a win would be awesome.

think of the sabres, if they can get to a cup again, you have the stadium full, you have 716 full, you have the viewing in the square full. they win the cup at home, it's going to be amazing.

Maybe a new event is that buffalonians fill downtown because there is space and and proximity to the stadium. it makes for an environment. and maybe some people still tailgate.

it can still be an amazing experience if the stadium location is downtown.

Why should Bills fans have to get over tailgating as part of the game day experience?

Go on a Chiefs board & tell Chiefs fans they should get over tailgating.

Or a Packers board & tell Packers fans they should get over tailgating.

Or a Broncos board & tell them they should get over tailgating.

[MillsapsBillsFan]

For NFL stadiums, at least on the east coast, Baltimore seems to be the exception.

The titans stadium is within easy walking distance of downtown, Cincinnati has there's right by the baseball stadium near downtown.

But there are plenty that are not, Miami's isn't that close to the city, Tampa Bay's is by the airport but not the city.

There are benefits and drawbacks to either system

[better days]

Uhh, I grew up in Webster, which is the east side of Rochester. We only went to a game a year or so, but that's a long drive. You need to quit making so many assumptions.

But once again we are off topic. The Ralph is in the middle of nowhere in the sense that there is nothing else to do around it on game day.

The drive from Webster to Buffalo is NOTHING.

Go to Boston sometime, spend a night or two, then go to Foxboro on a game day & you will know what the middle of nowhere means.

[OpIv37]

The drive from Webster to Buffalo is NOTHING.

Go to Boston sometime, spend a night or two, then go to Foxboro on a game day & you will know what the middle of nowhere means.
And once again, that's not the point. The point is about other things to do on game day.

[better days]

And once again, that's not the point. The point is about other things to do on game day.

Like what other things would you do?

Go to a restaurant & get something to eat?

Good luck doing that & getting back to the Stadium & to your seat before the game starts even if the walk is only 5 or 10 minutes.

The middle of nowhere means just that.

[better days]

The titans stadium is within easy walking distance of downtown, Cincinnati has there's right by the baseball stadium near downtown.

But there are plenty that are not, Miami's isn't that close to the city, Tampa Bay's is by the airport but not the city.

There are benefits and drawbacks to either system

I don't care how close anything is to a football Stadium with 60,000 plus people attending a game.

There is simply not the time to go anywhere, get served, eat, pay your bill, get back to the Stadium, get admitted into the Stadium & into your seat before the game starts.

[better days]

I don't care how close anything is to a football Stadium with 60,000 plus people attending a game.

There is simply not the time to go anywhere, get served, eat, pay your bill, get back to the Stadium, get admitted into the Stadium & into your seat before the game starts.

And I remember a Seinfeld episode from the conversation.

Jerry & the gang wanted to go to a Restaurant & get something to eat before going to a movie.

They never made it to the movie because of the time it takes to go out & get something to eat in a restaurant.

[chernobylwraiths]

You can get to the Ralph in about a half hour from anywhere in the Buffalo area.

That is not the middle of nowhere.

It takes HOURS, not an hour, but HOURS to get to the Stadium in Foxboro from Boston.

That is what the middle of nowhere is, a place FAR REMOVED, not a place 15 min to 1/2 an hour away.

You can get to either Candada or Pennsylvania from Buffalo in an hour to hour and a half. Time means nothing in an area like Buffalo compared to a metropolis like Boston, NYC or DC where it might take a half hour to get a couple miles.

[EricStratton]

You can get to either Candada or Pennsylvania from Buffalo in an hour to hour and a half. Time means nothing in an area like Buffalo compared to a metropolis like Boston, NYC or DC where it might take a half hour to get a couple miles.

I'm 15 miles from Met Life and it's easily 90 minutes from my door to the stadium on game day unless I leave before 9:30 for a 1:00 game.

And the stadium is 8 miles from Manhattan and a thousand miles from a place to eat on the day of a game.

[SpikedLemonade]

buffalo needs to get over this idea that tailgating is the end-all be-all to the game day experience.

Having lots where you can have tailgates and have others be able to walk to 716 or another restaurant will put more people in the area gameday. even if you don't have tickets, more people can be in the area. a huge december game with everyone downtown celebrating a win would be awesome.

think of the sabres, if they can get to a cup again, you have the stadium full, you have 716 full, you have the viewing in the square full. they win the cup at home, it's going to be amazing.

Maybe a new event is that buffalonians fill downtown because there is space and and proximity to the stadium. it makes for an environment. and maybe some people still tailgate.

it can still be an amazing experience if the stadium location is downtown.

Tailgating defines the culture of Buffalo. It is more important than the game for many. The fact that you are eating and drinking your own cheap food and booze rather than the stadiums or restaurants much more expensive food and booze is what most find appealing. If attendees are forced to pay at least their ticket amount on food and drink, it will be beyond the capacity of the regions current average incomes.

I agree completely with you that the Buffalo fan experience needs to evolve and move in step with other NFL teams. A downtown stadium will force that change.

[Night Train]

Build the next stadium right across Abbott in that parking lot. Level the old one for parking.

It's so freakin' easy to get there and the tailgating is fantastic. Just don't get *****tfaced and all is good.

Pegula bought both teams and spends $$. He's AOK if he wishes to wait on a new stadium.

[swiper]

Build the next stadium right across Abbott in that parking lot. Level the old one for parking.

It's so freakin' easy to get there and the tailgating is fantastic. Just don't get *****tfaced and all is good.

Pegula bought both teams and spends $$. He's AOK if he wishes to wait on a new stadium.

The problem is that too many fans use the tailgating experience to do just that. How do you propose stopping that?

[better days]

Tailgating defines the culture of Buffalo. It is more important than the game for many. The fact that you are eating and drinking your own cheap food and booze rather than the stadiums or restaurants much more expensive food and booze is what most find appealing. If attendees are forced to pay at least their ticket amount on food and drink, it will be beyond the capacity of the regions current average incomes.

I agree completely with you that the Buffalo fan experience needs to evolve and move in step with other NFL teams. A downtown stadium will force that change.

The Canadians enjoy the tailgate as much if not more than Americans do.

And IMO, the tailgate is all about the GOOD time with fellow Bills fans, not because the food is cheap.

And as I said before, Buffalo is hardly unique when it comes to tailgating.

Go on Youtube & you will see fans of most NFL Cities tailgating.

[better days]

The problem is that too many fans use the tailgating experience to do just that. How do you propose stopping that?

Don't let Canadians cross the border.

[HHURRICANE]

You can get to the Ralph in about a half hour from anywhere in the Buffalo area.

That is not the middle of nowhere.

It takes HOURS, not an hour, but HOURS to get to the Stadium in Foxboro from Boston.

That is what the middle of nowhere is, a place FAR REMOVED, not a place 15 min to 1/2 an hour away.

Everyone is missing the point here. First off, the Patriots fan base is all over New England. I know I lived there. Everything in CT and Mass is in the middle of nowhere.

Second, I love our Stadium. But having it even 20 minutes from downtown is dumb. It will create revenue for the City by being more centrally located and as OP pointed out will get the casual fan. Plus like it or not the League is going to get their way on this one.

[Dude]

I don't care how close anything is to a football Stadium with 60,000 plus people attending a game.

There is simply not the time to go anywhere, get served, eat, pay your bill, get back to the Stadium, get admitted into the Stadium & into your seat before the game starts.
That's simply not true. I do that whenever I go to a game here in Cincinnati. There's restaurants within walking distance and we have never had an issue getting in and out before a game. Given the limited tailgating space a lot of people do this.

[swiper]

Don't let Canadians cross the border.

It's not only Canadians that get drunk before the games.

[better days]

That's simply not true. I do that whenever I go to a game here in Cincinnati. There's restaurants within walking distance and we have never had an issue getting in and out before a game. Given the limited tailgating space a lot of people do this.

What time do you get into the restaurant?

How long does it take you to get seated, your order taken, food prepared, eat the food, then pay the check?

How long does it take you to walk back to the Stadium & get in & into your seat?

I am not buying that there are enough restaurants anywhere to feed 60,000 plus people in a timely manor to get them back to the Stadium on time for the game.

[better days]

It's not only Canadians that get drunk before the games.

A big percentage of the drunken fans are Canadian, but I was making a JOKE.

[DetDannyWilliams]

Build the next stadium right across Abbott in that parking lot. Level the old one for parking.

It's so freakin' easy to get there and the tailgating is fantastic. Just don't get *****tfaced and all is good.

Pegula bought both teams and spends $$. He's AOK if he wishes to wait on a new stadium.

SUNY owns that parking lot that is across the street from the stadium, it's part of their Erie Community College South Campus AND what I've heard is they aren't selling it.

[Dude]

What time do you get into the restaurant?

How long does it take you to get seated, your order taken, food prepared, eat the food, then pay the check?

How long does it take you to walk back to the Stadium & get in & into your seat?

I am not buying that there are enough restaurants anywhere to feed 60,000 plus people in a timely manor to get them back to the Stadium on time for the game.
First, you don't have every single person going to restaurants. So there is plenty of capacity. The restaurants all are very aware that it's a game day crowd, so it's not an issue. You get there around 11, done by 12:30, in your seats by kickoff.

Im sorry that you have a hard time accepting this, but just because you can't doesn't mean it isn't true.

[OpIv37]

I don't care how close anything is to a football Stadium with 60,000 plus people attending a game.

There is simply not the time to go anywhere, get served, eat, pay your bill, get back to the Stadium, get admitted into the Stadium & into your seat before the game starts.

you think so? A guy who used to post here named R.Rich organized a Bills get-together a few years back at a bar around the corner from the Ravens stadium when the Bills were in town. Mikey, Valerie, myself and several other people who no longer post here had no problem getting food and a nice buzz and had no problem getting to our seats before kickoff. And I've done it a handful of other times in Baltimore too.

Oh, and the Redskins stadium is in Lanham, MD, just inside the DC beltway and maybe 12 miles from the White House and just a few miles from DC city limits. But people coming from the VA suburbs have to go through or around DC, and with the traffic it can take 2 hours easy. Hell, I used to live 22 miles from the stadium and it would take an hour and a half to get home. So, in a major city, being close doesn't guarantee a short drive.

You need to stop talking like you're an authority on things you've never experienced.

[better days]

Everyone is missing the point here. First off, the Patriots fan base is all over New England. I know I lived there. Everything in CT and Mass is in the middle of nowhere.

Second, I love our Stadium. But having it even 20 minutes from downtown is dumb. It will create revenue for the City by being more centrally located and as OP pointed out will get the casual fan. Plus like it or not the League is going to get their way on this one.

Erie County has much more money to help fund a new Stadium than the City of Buffalo does.

[OpIv37]

Erie County has much more money to help fund a new Stadium than the City of Buffalo does.

And Fairfax County, Va has more money than Erie County. By your logic we should move the team there.

[DetDannyWilliams]

''New Stadium Work Group,'' it is a committee made up public and private leaders and Bills executives. They will be responsible for making recommendations on whether a new stadium or renovations to the team's current home best fit the franchise's needs to remain viable in Buffalo once the Bills lease expires in 2022.

[DetDannyWilliams]

New Stadium Advisory Group and Fund

New Stadium Advisory Group will be formed to explore potential for construction of new stadium at current site or at new site within Erie County. Beginning in 6th lease year, up to one half of the capital improvement fund can be used to conduct studies related to a new stadium location, design and development. Approximately $2,216,000 will be available in 2018, with a total of $11,796,000 at the end of the lease term.

http://www2.erie.gov/exec/index.php?q=buffalo-bills-lease-terms-summary

[better days]

you think so? A guy who used to post here named R.Rich organized a Bills get-together a few years back at a bar around the corner from the Ravens stadium when the Bills were in town. Mikey, Valerie, myself and several other people who no longer post here had no problem getting food and a nice buzz and had no problem getting to our seats before kickoff. And I've done it a handful of other times in Baltimore too.

Oh, and the Redskins stadium is in Lanham, MD, just inside the DC beltway and maybe 12 miles from the White House and just a few miles from DC city limits. But people coming from the VA suburbs have to go through or around DC, and with the traffic it can take 2 hours easy. Hell, I used to live 22 miles from the stadium and it would take an hour and a half to get home. So, in a major city, being close doesn't guarantee a short drive.

You need to stop talking like you're an authority on things you've never experienced.

What time are you allowed to drink in Lanham MD?

You can not drink in Erie County before 12 PM on Sunday.

So you would have to chug those drinks down to get a buzz on before Bills games.

And I am not saying a few people can't make it to a restaurant & get to the game, just not a Stadium full of people.

And the point is you can drive to the Ralph in a short period of time because it is Buffalo.

[Dude]

And I am not saying a few people can't make it to a restaurant & get to the game, just not a Stadium full of people.
In what reality does every single person attending an NFL game go to a restaurant before a game?

[better days]

In what reality does every single person attending an NFL game go to a restaurant before a game?

OK tell, us the seating capacity of all the restaurants around different stadiums.

The reality is not every football fan tailgates either.

But I would expect more people tailgate than would fit into all the restaurants around any stadium if tailgating were eliminated.

[Dude]

What point, exactly, are you trying to prove here?

[better days]

What point, exactly, are you trying to prove here?

If you read my previous posts, you would know.

My point is Bills fans should not be expected to give up tailgating as part of the game day experience.

If the Stadium is built Downtown with no accommodations for tailgating (multilevel parking garages for example) Bills fans will not have the same game day experience they have now & love.

[swiper]

...

[Dude]

If you read my previous posts, you would know.

My point is Bills fans should not be expected to give up tailgating as part of the game day experience.

If the Stadium is built Downtown with no accommodations for tailgating (multilevel parking garages for example) Bills fans will not have the same game day experience they have now & love.
Ok, just checking.

[OpIv37]

If you read my previous posts, you would know.

My point is Bills fans should not be expected to give up tailgating as part of the game day experience.

If the Stadium is built Downtown with no accommodations for tailgating (multilevel parking garages for example) Bills fans will not have the same game day experience they have now & love.
What should happen and what will happen are two different things.

The NFL doesn't make money off of people drinking their own booze and grilling their own food and parking in $5 or $10 private lots. The NFL makes money with PSL's and luxury boxes and $50 official lots and getting people inside the stadium to drink $8 beers and eat $5 hot dogs.

If the new stadium is downtown and it kills the tailgating culture, a few fans will get pissed off and stop going, but that will be more than offset by the additional sources of revenue. And the league knows it.

Maybe there is some compromise where there is room to have the stadium in or near downtown with lots big enough for tailgating nearby. But if not, it's highly likely that the tailgating culture will lose out

[better days]

What should happen and what will happen are two different things.

The NFL doesn't make money off of people drinking their own booze and grilling their own food and parking in $5 or $10 private lots. The NFL makes money with PSL's and luxury boxes and $50 official lots and getting people inside the stadium to drink $8 beers and eat $5 hot dogs.

If the new stadium is downtown and it kills the tailgating culture, a few fans will get pissed off and stop going, but that will be more than offset by the additional sources of revenue. And the league knows it.

Maybe there is some compromise where there is room to have the stadium in or near downtown with lots big enough for tailgating nearby. But if not, it's highly likely that the tailgating culture will lose out

All that money you speak of goes into the owners pockets, you know where you are STILL mad at RALPH for putting his, not to the NFL.

I guess it will be up to the Pegula's to decide.

[DraftBoy]

That's simply not true. I do that whenever I go to a game here in Cincinnati. There's restaurants within walking distance and we have never had an issue getting in and out before a game. Given the limited tailgating space a lot of people do this.

Most restaurants that surround stadiums are focused on timing so they can get people in and out to make it to the game and turnover tables for patrons who aren't attending but want to come and watch.

[BillsImpossible]

Most restaurants that surround stadiums are focused on timing so they can get people in and out to make it to the game and turnover tables for patrons who aren't attending but want to come and watch.

I'd rather buy some great steaks, load of the BBQ in the truck and cook them to perfection at my favorite tailgating spot next to the Ralph with my best friends and family and share the great steaks with people I've never met before, even opposing fans.

"You guys know how to party!"

How many times have you heard that at a tailgate party from people that don't live in WNY?

They love it because there's nothing like it in the NFL. Green Bay and KC come close, but the tailgating history of Buffalo has no rival.

Buffalo invented the tailgate party because the Bills really sucked back in the day and some guy had an idea to take a trash can and start a fire in it out of frustration with his hometown team. His friends put down the tailgate on their friends truck, sat on it, cracked two beers and made history.

"This is more fun than the game bro."

Tailgating is a culture among Bills fans. It's more than just a game. It's a party, and a celebration with fellow friends, footballs fans, and girls that just want to have a good time.

Take away that kind of atmosphere and I don't think the Bills would be in Buffalo today.

Ralph Wilson Jr. was a very smart man. He knew that if his team sucked people would still buy tickets because they wanted to tailgate and have fun.

Simple concept that made sense, worked, and still works today.

It's not broke, don't fix it. The Ralph is perfect. What more can football fans ask for?

[DraftBoy]

I'd rather buy some great steaks, load of the BBQ in the truck and cook them to perfection at my favorite tailgating spot next to the Ralph with my best friends and family and share the great steaks with people I've never met before, even opposing fans.

"You guys know how to party!"

How many times have you heard that at a tailgate party from people that don't live in WNY?

They love it because there's nothing like it in the NFL. Green Bay and KC come close, but the tailgating history of Buffalo has no rival.

Buffalo invented the tailgate party because the Bills really sucked back in the day and some guy had an idea to take a trash can and start a fire in it out of frustration with his hometown team. His friends put down the tailgate on their friends truck, sat on it, cracked two beers and made history.

"This is more fun than the game bro."

Tailgating is a culture among Bills fans. It's more than just a game. It's a party, and a celebration with fellow friends, footballs fans, and girls that just want to have a good time.

Take away that kind of atmosphere and I don't think the Bills would be in Buffalo today.

Ralph Wilson Jr. was a very smart man. He knew that if his team sucked people would still buy tickets because they wanted to tailgate and have fun.

Simple concept that made sense, worked, and still works today.

It's not broke, don't fix it. The Ralph is perfect. What more can football fans ask for?

I hear that every Saturday where I live whether that be in Athens, Statesboro, Tuscaloosa, Oxford, Knoxville, Tallahassee, Clemson, or Auburn, but that's not really the point.

I could care less about tailgating personally, and I don't think it should be a factor in determining a new stadium site. My post was simply to state that most restaurants that surround a venue like a stadium cater to that style of clientele and even will go so far as to produce special menus to ensure quick ticket times and a high turnover of tables so people can make the game without fear of missing kickoff/tip-off, first pitch, etc.

[OpIv37]

All that money you speak of goes into the owners pockets, you know where you are STILL mad at RALPH for putting his, not to the NFL.

I guess it will be up to the Pegula's to decide.

Nice try but the league has revenue sharing and Buffalo is a revenue sharing recipient. The more money that the Bills make on their own, the less money the other owners need to give them through revenue sharing. And in reality, the league is the owners. That means PSL's and luxury boxes and $50 parking lots for as many teams as possible.

[better days]

I hear that every Saturday where I live whether that be in Athens, Statesboro, Tuscaloosa, Oxford, Knoxville, Tallahassee, Clemson, or Auburn, but that's not really the point.

I could care less about tailgating personally, and I don't think it should be a factor in determining a new stadium site. My post was simply to state that most restaurants that surround a venue like a stadium cater to that style of clientele and even will go so far as to produce special menus to ensure quick ticket times and a high turnover of tables so people can make the game without fear of missing kickoff/tip-off, first pitch, etc.

Again I ask, how many people can these restaurants serve?

And again, NO ALCOHOL served in Erie County before 12 PM on Sunday.

[better days]

Nice try but the league has revenue sharing and Buffalo is a revenue sharing recipient. The more money that the Bills make on their own, the less money the other owners need to give them through revenue sharing. And in reality, the league is the owners. That means PSL's and luxury boxes and $50 parking lots for as many teams as possible.


The revenue sharing is ticket sales only & NOT the expensive tickets either.

There is no sharing of incidentals like parking or hot dogs.

[Dude]

Again I ask, how many people can these restaurants serve?And again, in most cities where this is in place they are able to serve the majority of the people who wish to go out to eat before a game. Asking the question over and over isn't going to change the answer.

[OpIv37]

The revenue sharing is ticket sales only & NOT the expensive tickets either.

There is no sharing of incidentals like parking or hot dogs.
And that's my point exactly. The less unshared revenue the Bills make on their own, the less shared revenue the other owners will have to give up.

[better days]

And again, in most cities where this is in place they are able to serve the majority of the people who wish to go out to eat before a game. Asking the question over and over isn't going to change the answer.

Name me a City that does not have any tailgating.

[DraftBoy]

Again I ask, how many people can these restaurants serve?

And again, NO ALCOHOL served in Erie County before 12 PM on Sunday.

Depending the area and the number of restaurants it's usually more than enough available venues to serve those who wish to eat out prior to the game. Never had an issue with it in the cities I've gone to games in.

That ordinance could easily be changed.

- - - Updated - - -


Name me a City that does not have any tailgating.

The NFL banned tailgating for the Super Bowl when it was in NY.

[WagonCircler]

I used to get super riled up over the stadium issue (even for me).

Now, I don't really care, because the team is staying here.

The urgency over a new stadium was about keeping the Bills here.

Now Pegula can really do this right. Get the politicians to tear down the Perry Street projects, which are largely uninhabitable anyway, get Delaware North and other companies to finance a huge chunk of the stadium, further develop the area around Canalside and the Cobblestone District, and plan the thing so tailgating and pre-gaming in the new stadium can co-exist.

The clock is off. No need to rush and do this half-assed.

[better days]

Depending the area and the number of restaurants it's usually more than enough available venues to serve those who wish to eat out prior to the game. Never had an issue with it in the cities I've gone to games in.

That ordinance could easily be changed.

- - - Updated - - -



The NFL banned tailgating for the Super Bowl when it was in NY.

NO the ordinance could not be easily changed.

I don't think there are restaurants by the Stadium in NJ, isn't it in the middle of nowhere?

[OpIv37]

And why is it that you think the ordinance couldn't be changed easily?

[better days]

And why is it that you think the ordinance couldn't be changed easily?

People have wanted & tried to get it changed in the past without any success.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would not be an easy thing to do to get it changed.

And where I live down here on the Sarasota County/Charlotte County line, Sarasota has the same restriction as Erie County while Charlotte County has no such restriction.

The Sarasota bar owners & stores down here have tried for years to get the restriction removed without any success.

If I want to buy beer to take to my friends house to watch the game on Sunday, I have to get it in Charlotte County if I want to make it in time for opening kickoff.

[Dude]

Name me a City that does not have any tailgating.Why is that relevant? Even if there were no tailgating, you still wouldn't have every single person attending an event trying to go to a restaurant beforehand. And those restaurants that are close by would still adapt to serve those that do.

You keep arguing an issue that isn't an issue.

[THATHURMANATOR]

From the standpoint of the committed fan, the Ralph provides a great game day experience.

From the standpoint of expensive luxury boxes and shiny things to attract casual fans, the Ralph is lacking.

The league doesn't care about the committed fan because they already have our money. The market is tapped. They want the big money luxury boxes and the casual fans. So, there will be a new stadium under way by the year 7 opt out in the current lease.

What does the league have to do with it? As long as the Pegulas don't care then that is all that matters.

[trapezeus]

betterdays, buffalo is literally changing infrastructure around to be more accomodating.

the 716 helped create space where PEarl Street was over run on sabres game days. both are full now. more restaurants have opened. People follow opportunity. if they see that tailgating can only accomdate x number of people and the stadium seats x+1. They will provide opportunities to serve those people.

Also, new stadium like the jets/giants, have huge concourses with restaurantss inside of them. certain seats have access to certain common areas.

You are telling me that you wouldn't come to a game and into the gates at 11pm, and eat in the indoor concourse, eat at the restaurants, stay warm until you want to go to your seats?

they aren't going to pick up the current ralph and move it somewhere else. it will just be a different experience.

your arguement that a restaurant won't improve its efficiency and therefore people will have the worst time of their lives is ridiculous. It's like saying, "broadway can't be near timesquare in NYC because the restaurants won't get patrons out in time for their shows." Yet every single day the restaurants around broadway have everyone out 20-30 minutes before showtime. i'm sure there are a couple tables that get screwed every now and then. but people see shows every single day. it is a mad house when shows start and let out. but it works.

[THATHURMANATOR]

People have wanted & tried to get it changed in the past without any success.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would not be an easy thing to do to get it changed.

And where I live down here on the Sarasota County/Charlotte County line, Sarasota has the same restriction as Erie County while Charlotte County has no such restriction.

The Sarasota bar owners & stores down here have tried for years to get the restriction removed without any success.

If I want to buy beer to take to my friends house to watch the game on Sunday, I have to get it in Charlotte County if I want to make it in time for opening kickoff.
They will change it in 2 seconds when they build the stadium downtown. No reason to now.

[better days]

Why is that relevant? Even if there were no tailgating, you still wouldn't have every single person attending an event trying to go to a restaurant beforehand. And those restaurants that are close by would still adapt to serve those that do.

You keep arguing an issue that isn't an issue.

And you keep ignoring the fact that in every NFL City a HUGE number of people tailgate.

I don't believe there are enough restaurants around any Stadium that could accommodate the number of people that tailgate if tailgating were not allowed.

[better days]

They will change it in 2 seconds when they build the stadium downtown. No reason to now.

NONSENSE. Ask ANYONE that owns a bar in Erie County & they will tell you they have tried for YEARS to get that law changed without any success.

Pegula may have the pull to get it done, but as I said, it would not be easy.

[THATHURMANATOR]

And you keep ignoring the fact that in every NFL City a HUGE number of people tailgate.

I don't believe there are enough restaurants around any Stadium that could accommodate the number of people that tailgate if tailgating were not allowed.
Why wouldn't they allow tailgaiting?

Of course they would.

[OpIv37]

Who opposes it? All it does is force people into neighboring jurisdiction for booze and Erie County loses the tax revenue and the income for local business owners.

[WagonCircler]

To me, the best comparison for a downtown stadium would be Charlotte. (Not their crappy stadium--just the surrounding area). And Baltimore, too.

There's not a lot of tailgating, because it's downtown and there aren't big, open parking lots, like we have in Orchard Park. But there's some tailgating, you just have to get to the lots earlier than everyone else. So tailgating is at a premium. The rest of the people go to nearby restaurants and bars on Tryon and surrounding areas. And in Baltimore, the Eutaw Street area and the Inner Harbor.

There's a mix of trolleys and busses, etc. for those parking in areas lie the South End.

I envision this type of situation, but with more tailgating than Charlotte, and less than Orchard Park. A hybrid, of sorts, with 50% of the crowd tailgating, 25% going straight into the stadium to take advantage of new amenities like those at the new Yankee Stadium (NYY Steak, Yankees Museum, Huge Food Courts, Memorabilia stores...) and the other 25% patronizing downtown bars and restaurants like Iron Works and Cobblestone, LagerHaus 95, etc. Hell, they could even open up the First Niagara Center bars and restaurants before Bills games.

There's more than enough space in the Perry Street area and plenty of already in progress development in the surrounding areas to make all of this viable, if planned and executed properly.

Again, don't rush it. No reason to. Plan it. Do it right.

[better days]

betterdays, buffalo is literally changing infrastructure around to be more accomodating.

the 716 helped create space where PEarl Street was over run on sabres game days. both are full now. more restaurants have opened. People follow opportunity. if they see that tailgating can only accomdate x number of people and the stadium seats x+1. They will provide opportunities to serve those people.

Also, new stadium like the jets/giants, have huge concourses with restaurantss inside of them. certain seats have access to certain common areas.

You are telling me that you wouldn't come to a game and into the gates at 11pm, and eat in the indoor concourse, eat at the restaurants, stay warm until you want to go to your seats?

they aren't going to pick up the current ralph and move it somewhere else. it will just be a different experience.

your arguement that a restaurant won't improve its efficiency and therefore people will have the worst time of their lives is ridiculous. It's like saying, "broadway can't be near timesquare in NYC because the restaurants won't get patrons out in time for their shows." Yet every single day the restaurants around broadway have everyone out 20-30 minutes before showtime. i'm sure there are a couple tables that get screwed every now and then. but people see shows every single day. it is a mad house when shows start and let out. but it works.

Hockey has how many games a year?

And how many people attend a hockey game?

As you said Pearl St was over run by 20,000 fans.

Football has more than twice as many people attend games, but we are only talking about 10-12 games max a year.

I don't think anymore restaurants could survive than what already exist.

If tailgating is limited at the new Stadium, I think the Stadium would need to have a HUGE 716 located in proximity to the Stadium.

[better days]

Who opposes it? All it does is force people into neighboring jurisdiction for booze and Erie County loses the tax revenue and the income for local business owners.

Your Government at work.

[better days]

Why wouldn't they allow tailgaiting?

Of course they would.

I don't think tailgating would be banned, but there has to be room for it.

Multilevel parking garages would not accommodate tailgating very well.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Hockey has how many games a year?

And how many people attend a hockey game?

As you said Pearl St was over run by 20,000 fans.

Football has more than twice as many people attend games, but we are only talking about 10-12 games max a year.

I don't think anymore restaurants could survive than what already exist.

If tailgating is limited at the new Stadium, I think the Stadium would need to have a HUGE 716 located in proximity to the Stadium.

I don't think you realize how packed Canal side is in a given day.

It won't just be a summer hot spot either. It was packed with all the skating etc during the summer months last year.

There is a Casino, Riverworks (which is AMAZING by the way), a comedy club, 716 itself, among many new things slated to arrive soon.

[OpIv37]

Your Government at work.

But that doesn't make sense. The government would benefit from the tax revenue.

[better days]

I don't think you realize how packed Canal side is in a given day.

It won't just be a summer hot spot either. It was packed with all the skating etc during the summer months last year.

There is a Casino, Riverworks (which is AMAZING by the way), a comedy club, 716 itself, among many new things slated to arrive soon.

As I told Spiked before, Buffalo is in the midst of a resurgance.

Great to hear about all the great changes in Buffalo.

[better days]

But that doesn't make sense. The government would benefit from the tax revenue.

The government still gets tax revenue, just not before 12PM on Sundays.

Nobody is going to leave Erie County unless they are on the border to buy alcohol on Sunday before noon.

And I'm not sure if other Counties adjacent to Erie County can sell alcohol before noon either.

Down here, I guess Sarasota does not care if they lose a few dollars before noon on Sunday.

They make it up with the speed traps on Jacaranda Bvd in Venice & the Speed trap known as North Port Florida.

[THATHURMANATOR]

As I told Spiked before, Buffalo is in the midst of a resurgance.

Great to hear about all the great changes in Buffalo.

You really should see Riverworks. It is awesome!

[Dude]

And you keep ignoring the fact that in every NFL City a HUGE number of people tailgate.

I don't believe there are enough restaurants around any Stadium that could accommodate the number of people that tailgate if tailgating were not allowed.I'm not ignoring it, in fact I never mentioned it. I'm only addressing your false belief that people are unable to go to a restaurant before a game and get to their seat before kickoff.

You also keep believing, again falsely, that if there were no tailgating that every single person that normally would tailgate would then go to a restaurant. In fact, you cannot make that statement as fact because you have no way to prove it.

If a new stadium were to be built downtown, tailgating would change but it's extremely unlikely that it would be eliminated. In situations where there isn't as much tailgating space as there is around RWS now, such as in Cincinnati, a percentage of fans choose to go to a bar or a restaurant before a game. There is no reason to believe the same thing wouldn't happen in Buffalo. People would still tailgate. Those who are upset that the tailgating has changed would either not tailgate, or would go somewhere else before the game.

People adapt.

Except, evidently, you.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If the stadium was downtown there would be tailgating for sure.

Not as much as now but still probably pretty good one.

I imagine since it would be near 716 there could be some kind of large tailgaiting venue ie a tent party. That could be really fun.

[SpikedLemonade]

Wouldn't Detroit be the best comparison to Buffalo? Plenty of tailgating near Ford Field in downtown Detroit. Also plenty of restaurants doing a brisk business on game day.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Wouldn't Detroit be the best comparison to Buffalo? Plenty of tailgating near Ford Field in downtown Detroit. Also plenty of restaurants doing a brisk business on game day.

Is there tailgating in Detroit?

I ask because I was there for that Bills game and there just didn't seem like there was any open lots anywhere near that Stadium.

I did love their stadium however. So nice. It just seemed like it was jammed into an area. Where I think the Bills stadium could be would have more open areas near it for tailgating.

[SpikedLemonade]

Is there tailgating in Detroit?

I ask because I was there for that Bills game and there just didn't seem like there was any open lots anywhere near that Stadium.

I did love their stadium however. So nice. It just seemed like it was jammed into an area. Where I think the Bills stadium could be would have more open areas near it for tailgating.

I was there last year for the MNF home opener and they tailgate in these numbered lots. I think they call them sheds. Basically a paved lot with a few covered areas. I was on a bus trip but we passed plenty of parking lots where people were tailgating. The lots are not as large as the ones in OP, but there were more of them. You did have a longer walk or shuttle to the stadium from the tailgating then in OP.

[better days]

I'm not ignoring it, in fact I never mentioned it. I'm only addressing your false belief that people are unable to go to a restaurant before a game and get to their seat before kickoff.

You also keep believing, again falsely, that if there were no tailgating that every single person that normally would tailgate would then go to a restaurant. In fact, you cannot make that statement as fact because you have no way to prove it.

If a new stadium were to be built downtown, tailgating would change but it's extremely unlikely that it would be eliminated. In situations where there isn't as much tailgating space as there is around RWS now, such as in Cincinnati, a percentage of fans choose to go to a bar or a restaurant before a game. There is no reason to believe the same thing wouldn't happen in Buffalo. People would still tailgate. Those who are upset that the tailgating has changed would either not tailgate, or would go somewhere else before the game.

People adapt.

Except, evidently, you.

This entire conversation started because I responded to a post that said fans would have to get over no tailgating.

As I said before, IMO people should not have to give up tailgating, but I can understand how someone that does not tailgate would not care if it didn't exist.