Whaley: Bills are 'almost in a quarterback purgatory'

[MidnightVoice]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000506629/article/whaley-bills-are-almost-in-a-quarterback-purgatory

Purgatory is supposed to be a temporary place of punishment.

For NFL teams in quarterback purgatory, that temporary state can be interminably long and ultimately doom a franchise.

This is where Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley admitted his team currently sits.

"We are almost in quarterback purgatory. We're good enough that we won't be picking first or second overall," he told WGR Radio on Wednesday.

Whaley isn't wrong.

[gr8slayer]

That has been the Bills biggest issue for the past decade, they're always just good enough to miss out on a franchise QB. Of course, the one year that they had a high enough pick for a franchise QB (2011), there were none to be had at #3.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That has been the Bills biggest issue for the past decade, they're always just good enough to miss out on a franchise QB. Of course, the one year that they had a high enough pick for a franchise QB (2011), there were none to be had at #3.

You don't need to draft in the top 3 to get a franchise QB, but you do need to make an effort. The Bills' problem has been their refusal to draft QBs at all, and instead chase busted free agents or over the hill veterans.

[trapezeus]

in addition, they've always giving guys who have proven nothing limited competition. You don't have to pick qb's every year, but if a qb isn't wowing you in t he first season and there is a guy who is falling fast in a draft and you had rated high, take him.

Take rodgers when losman has struggled. i forget who was available when we kind of knew edwards was falling apart. Instead we bring in holcombs and fitzgeralds and cassels.
If you blow it twice on QBs in 2-3 years, you will have a really bad team. not great for the GM who blew it because he'll probably get fired. but great for the team to actually have a chance to get better.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Take rodgers when losman has struggled.

We didn't have a 1st in Rodgers' draft because of the Losman trade.

[Goobylal]

And they wouldn't have taken Rodgers even if they had a 1st, because of drafting Losman the year before.

[Bill Cody]

When does purgatory become hell? Any Catholics out there?

[BuffaloRedleg]

Is there anything that can be done to the game to make it less dependent on having a great QB?

It is absolutely ridiculous that a professional sports league should be so dependent on one position, it's like 70/30 in making the playoffs and 90/10 when it comes to winning a Superbowl.

What can be done?

Question 2 I've always wondered... what is going on in College Football? Why such a dearth of decent QBs coming out? Maybe it's in my head, but are the prospects actually getting worse as the years go by?

For those of us, especially Bills fans, who are able to see behind the curtain at the league's "parity" know that there is not any real parity. Any given Sunday it'll look close, but it's all smoke and mirrors. No superb QB=No Superbowl except in very rare circumstances.

[gr8slayer]

You don't need to draft in the top 3 to get a franchise QB, but you do need to make an effort. The Bills' problem has been their refusal to draft QBs at all, and instead chase busted free agents or over the hill veterans.

They haven't refused to draft a QB, they've tried and have been unsuccessful. They're just rarely in a position to draft a franchise QB, whether it's top 3, or in 2004 when they were 2 picks away from getting Roethlisberger.

[MillsapsBillsFan]

Question 2 I've always wondered... what is going on in College Football? Why such a dearth of decent QBs coming out? Maybe it's in my head, but are the prospects actually getting worse as the years go by?
.

I think this is a combination of the differences in offense in college/high school and the offenses in the NFL. Many of the offenses in the lower levels are now being predicated on the ball getting in and out of the qb's hands as quick as possible, meaning that many QB's are only taught how to read one thing or only a part of the field. This simplification of offense (along with so much shotgun) obviously stunts a QB's development. Also in college offenses can adjust in order to cover up a qb's weakness. Its a lot easier to gameplan around a qb's deficiencies when theres a few great players on the field instead of everyone being great.

Also I think there's less of a focus on the fundamentals of the QB position (the footwork, throwing motion, etc.) because many places just plug in a qb that works.

[justasportsfan]

Once the bills tie up Gilmore, Dareus and Bradham, they should use all their picks for a qb either via draft or trade.

[trapezeus]

We didn't have a 1st in Rodgers' draft because of the Losman trade.

sorry. i messed up.

but i remember a year or two after losman, there was a qb available and we decided to pass to give him more time. and then the next year we took edwards.

i guess my bigger point, especially with the rookie cap, you want a young qb who is good quickly, and have a strong team around him that you pay for. and once he gets good, then you let the other big contracts go to keep the qb.

it isn't hard to carry 2 first round qb's from back to back years and have neither of them develop.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

They haven't refused to draft a QB, they've tried and have been unsuccessful. They're just rarely in a position to draft a franchise QB, whether it's top 3, or in 2004 when they were 2 picks away from getting Roethlisberger.

Yes they absolutely have refused. Jim Kelly retired after the 1996 season. It took the Bills eight drafts to draft one QB: JP Losman in 2004. Since Losman, we've taken three QBs in the following 11 drafts: Edwards, Levi Brown, and Manuel.

Four quarterbacks in 19 drafts!

For comparison, in 1997 Green Bay still had Brett Favre in his prime. They took 4 QBs (Ron McAda, Matt Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, and Craig Nall) before we took one. They've taken 5 QBs since drafting Aaron Rodgers.

New England has taken 7 QBs since Brady.

Indianapolis took 3 QBs while they still had Peyton Manning (before Luck), and Denver took another QB with their 2nd round pick immediately after signing Manning.

In the meantime, we've passed on Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, and Russell Wilson. Derek Carr and Teddy Bridgewater may ultimately join this list.

[Mr. Pink]

They've been in QB purgatory since 1997.

[Bill Cody]

Is there anything that can be done to the game to make it less dependent on having a great QB?

It is absolutely ridiculous that a professional sports league should be so dependent on one position, it's like 70/30 in making the playoffs and 90/10 when it comes to winning a Superbowl.

What can be done?

Question 2 I've always wondered... what is going on in College Football? Why such a dearth of decent QBs coming out? Maybe it's in my head, but are the prospects actually getting worse as the years go by?

For those of us, especially Bills fans, who are able to see behind the curtain at the league's "parity" know that there is not any real parity. Any given Sunday it'll look close, but it's all smoke and mirrors. No superb QB=No Superbowl except in very rare circumstances.

To be fair, pull up a list of ALL the QB's that won SB's from 1966 on. It's a pretty damn impressive list with a few outliers. Even the losing QB's in SB's makes a great list. So the problem isn't new. But it is worse now, you're right. Why is it worse? It's almost entirely due to rule changes that have been made gradually over time to make it easier to pass and protect the QB from getting hit. Biggest among those changes are the 5 yard chuck rule, the way defensive holding is called, changes to how offensive holding is called, and what's considered a late hit on the QB. As a result of those rule changes and some advances in offensive strategy the game has tilted away from running and towards passing. Could the league make some new changes that could tilt that back? Of course. Will they? No, they like the scoring. Personally I think they've gone too far.

[swiper]

They haven't refused to draft a QB, they've tried and have been unsuccessful.

This is someone who is abjectly clueless on the Buffalo Bills history over the past 20 years.

[swiper]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000506629/article/whaley-bills-are-almost-in-a-quarterback-purgatory

Purgatory is supposed to be a temporary place of punishment.

For NFL teams in quarterback purgatory, that temporary state can be interminably long and ultimately doom a franchise.

This is where Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley admitted his team currently sits.

"We are almost in quarterback purgatory. We're good enough that we won't be picking first or second overall," he told WGR Radio on Wednesday.

Whaley isn't wrong.

The audio for this interview is up at wgr. He said they told one (coaching) candidate that. Was that, perhaps, prior to them having gotten Cassel & Taylor? I doubt he feels it's quite that bad at the moment.

[CleveSteve]

Ouch. Way to instill confidence in your team.

Here are the starting QBs from the last 10 super bowls:


<colgroup><col style="width:60pt" width="80"> </colgroup><tbody>
XL


2/5/2006


Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers Miami (OH) 3/2/82 23 Matt Hasselbeck, Seattle Seahawks Boston College 9/25/75 30 XLI


2/4/2007


Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts Tennessee 3/24/76 30 Rex Grossman, Chicago Bears Florida 8/23/80 26 XLII



2/3/2008


Eli Manning, New York Giants Mississippi 1/3/81 27 Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 30 XLIII



2/1/2009


Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers Miami (OH) 3/2/82 26 Kurt Warner, Arizona Cardinals Northern Iowa 6/22/71 37 XLIV


2/7/2010


Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints Purdue 1/15/79 31 Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts Tennessee 3/24/76 33 XLV



2/6/2011


Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers California 12/2/83 27 Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers Miami (OH) 3/2/82 28 XLVI


2/5/2012


Eli Manning, New York Giants Mississippi 1/3/81 31 Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 34 XLVII



2/3/2013


Joe Flacco, Baltimore Ravens Delaware 1/16/85 28 Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers Nevada 11/3/87 25 XLVIII


2/2/2014


Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks NC State, Wisconsin 11/29/88 25 Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos Tennessee 3/24/76 37 XLIX



2/1/2015


Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks NC State, Wisconsin 11/29/88 26 Tom Brady, New England Patriots Michigan 8/3/77 37 -

See more at: http://origin-www.profootballhof.com/history/release.aspx?release_id=97#sthash.75FnEeRy.dpuf


</tbody>


Only 5 of the 20 QBs to start in a super bowl game over the past decade were drafted in the top 10, let alone the top 3... and all of them were named Manning.

Garbage excuse by the GM.

[Jimkelly12203]

Is there anything that can be done to the game to make it less dependent on having a great QB?

It is absolutely ridiculous that a professional sports league should be so dependent on one position, it's like 70/30 in making the playoffs and 90/10 when it comes to winning a Superbowl.

What can be done?

Question 2 I've always wondered... what is going on in College Football? Why such a dearth of decent QBs coming out? Maybe it's in my head, but are the prospects actually getting worse as the years go by?

For those of us, especially Bills fans, who are able to see behind the curtain at the league's "parity" know that there is not any real parity. Any given Sunday it'll look close, but it's all smoke and mirrors. No superb QB=No Superbowl except in very rare circumstances.
I totally agree. The problem is this is what the league evidently wanted with all the new rules changes over the past 10+ years. The game didn't use to be like this. Rex's style use to be the way to go (not that you can't win with it today). Overwhelmingly, the rules are so skewed in favor of offense and QBs in particular. The league is sort of a joke right now to anyone that remembers how things use to be.

[better days]

I totally agree. The problem is this is what the league evidently wanted with all the new rules changes over the past 10+ years. The game didn't use to be like this. Rex's style use to be the way to go (not that you can't win with it today). Overwhelmingly, the rules are so skewed in favor of offense and QBs in particular. The league is sort of a joke right now to anyone that remembers how things use to be.

Well, maybe the NFL will change back to the way it used to be with strong running games dominating.

And the reason for this is less & less QB's evey year are coming out of college NFL ready.

The trend is the RGIII, Kaepernick type QB in College now.

And for the most part, those guys can't sustain success in the NFL.

[JoeMama]

You don't need to draft in the top 3 to get a franchise QB, but you do need to make an effort. The Bills' problem has been their refusal to draft QBs at all, and instead chase busted free agents or over the hill veterans.

And all this despite Doug Whaley's big talk about 'drafting a QB every year until you get your guy.'

Hey, I have an idea, how about finally making good on that drunken boast and drafting more than one ****ing QB at some point during your entire goddamn tenure in Buffalo, huh???

[sudzy]

Purgatory because the GM is incapable of finding a good QB.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

This year the problem is QB and a very suspect OL, where have we heard that before? Oh yeah, 2001 and then 2005 to the present. No wonder we haven't had a playoff game since I was a junior in high school.

[X-Era]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000506629/article/whaley-bills-are-almost-in-a-quarterback-purgatory

Purgatory is supposed to be a temporary place of punishment.

For NFL teams in quarterback purgatory, that temporary state can be interminably long and ultimately doom a franchise.

This is where Buffalo Bills general manager Doug Whaley admitted his team currently sits.

"We are almost in quarterback purgatory. We're good enough that we won't be picking first or second overall," he told WGR Radio on Wednesday.

Whaley isn't wrong.

It's a major problem and has been. There are many examples where you can get what you need at quarterback without using the 1st or 2nd overall pick.

However, in theory the best quarterback prospect goes first. And since QB is at such a premium that can mean 1st or 2nd overall.

But you know all that.

If this team is good enough overall and QB is what's preventing them from the playoffs then I\m fine with a big move to get the QB. The entire draft? No. But a significant portion of the 2016 and even some of the 2017 draft to get the QB? Maybe. I'd say yes if I was convinced that's whats keeping us from the playoffs.

[X-Era]

Yes they absolutely have refused. Jim Kelly retired after the 1996 season. It took the Bills eight drafts to draft one QB: JP Losman in 2004. Since Losman, we've taken three QBs in the following 11 drafts: Edwards, Levi Brown, and Manuel.

Four quarterbacks in 19 drafts!

For comparison, in 1997 Green Bay still had Brett Favre in his prime. They took 4 QBs (Ron McAda, Matt Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, and Craig Nall) before we took one. They've taken 5 QBs since drafting Aaron Rodgers.

New England has taken 7 QBs since Brady.

Indianapolis took 3 QBs while they still had Peyton Manning (before Luck), and Denver took another QB with their 2nd round pick immediately after signing Manning.

In the meantime, we've passed on Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, and Russell Wilson. Derek Carr and Teddy Bridgewater may ultimately join this list.

You're splitting hairs a bit here.

Todd Collins was already on the squad when Kelly retired. They drafted him.
They traded a 1st and 4th for Rob Johnson
They traded a 1st for Bledsoe
Then drafted Losman

It's not like they didn't use draft picks for QB's.

[TacklingDummy]

So Doug is saying what Dummy has been saying for years. Hello Captain obvious.

[The Jokeman]

They haven't refused to draft a QB, they've tried and have been unsuccessful. They're just rarely in a position to draft a franchise QB, whether it's top 3, or in 2004 when they were 2 picks away from getting Roethlisberger.


Let's look at some numbers, shall we? I'm going to compare the Bills to the Packers since people brought up the JP vs Rodgers comparison. It's not about getting a franchise QB it's taking a chance to find a guy who might be the next great one. I mean had this team had a Hasselbeck or Brooks it could be debated we wouldn't be 15 years since we last name the playoffs.


QB

2013 1 16 16 E.J. Manuel Florida State
2010 7 2 209 Levi Brown Troy
2007 3 29 92 Trent Edwards Stanford
2004 1 22 22 J.P. Losman Tulane
1995 2 13 45 Todd Collins Michigan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2015 5 11 147 Brett Hundley UCLA
2012 7 36 243 B.J. Coleman Tennessee-Chattanooga
2008 2 25 56 Brian Brohm Louisville
2008 7 2 209 Matt Flynn Louisiana State
2006 5 15 148 Ingle Martin Furman
2005 1 24 24 Aaron Rodgers California
2002 5 29 164 Craig Nall Northwestern State (LA)
1999 4 36 131 Aaron Brooks Virginia
1998 6 34 187 Matt Hasselbeck Boston College
1997 7 39 240 Ronnie McAda Army
1996 7 31 240 Kyle Wachholtz USC
1995 5 26 160 Jay Barker Alabama

[The Jokeman]

You're splitting hairs a bit here.

Todd Collins was already on the squad when Kelly retired. They drafted him.
They traded a 1st and 4th for Rob Johnson
They traded a 1st for Bledsoe
Then drafted Losman

It's not like they didn't use draft picks for QB's.

But you don't have to draft a QB/trade a 1st Rounder to find a QB.

[Meathead]

as i thought, whaley was NOT commenting on ej or any other qb. he was answering a question on what will happen IF none of these guys becomes a franchise qb

that would have been utterly shocking and deeply troubling if he had, which is why i was pretty certain he wasnt. cassel probably has zero chance of being a long term answer, but ej and tyrod both still have a (small) chance and to say that they dont would have been devastating to the lockerroom

if either/both get a chance to play a significant amount this season and they show they arent the guy, NEXT season would be the appropriate time to say that. but not THIS season

http://www.wgr550.com/Bills-GM-We-re-almost-in-quarterback-purgatory/21828184

"We may have a franchise quarterback but no one’s proven that yet" Whaley said. "And until you get that way, what is the best way to win? It’s running the ball, playing good defense and protecting the ball. So what we’re saying is let’s get as much talent around the guy and all he’s got to do is make the right decision. He doesn’t have to put the team on his back and throw it 50 times a game. We may not throw it but 20 to 25 times a game but he’s got to make the right decision, get the ball into the hands of play makers and let them do what they’ve got to do."

If the Bills determine they still don't have a franchise quarterback, how do they get one? Free agency, the top of the draft? Whaley says the improvement of the team overall, puts them in a difficult spot when it comes to the best way to find a franchise QB.

"We’re almost in quarterback purgatory. We’re good enough that we’re not going to have the 1st or 2nd pick"(overall) Whaley said. "We hope we’re not in that position. Hopefully now we’re drafting in the teens and the 20’s and the 30’s so you’re not going to get those college guys that are coming out. Franchise quarterbacks in the free agent market? Name one, unless they have an injury. So the onus will be on our scouting staff to find a guy in the lower 1st round, 2nd or 3rd round. We accept that challenge, its where we are and its been good that we’ve got enough talent around them. We’re in that situation but its not an easy answer.

[Meathead]

Is there anything that can be done to the game to make it less dependent on having a great QB?


i would LOVE to see them go back to letting DBs contact the receivers down the field. that would do it

but they wont. theyve never been raking in more ludicrous speed money than they are now and it appears its only going to keep going up from here. until the fans decide that a QBs-are-everything league is boring its going to stay this way

[The Jokeman]

as i thought, whaley was NOT commenting on ej or any other qb. he was answering a question on what will happen IF none of these guys becomes a franchise qb

that would have been utterly shocking and deeply troubling if he had, which is why i was pretty certain he wasnt. cassel probably has zero chance of being a long term answer, but ej and tyrod both still have a (small) chance and to say that they dont would have been devastating to the lockerroom

if either/both get a chance to play a significant amount this season and they show they arent the guy, NEXT season would be the appropriate time to say that. but not THIS season

http://www.wgr550.com/Bills-GM-We-re-almost-in-quarterback-purgatory/21828184

"We may have a franchise quarterback but no one’s proven that yet" Whaley said. "And until you get that way, what is the best way to win? It’s running the ball, playing good defense and protecting the ball. So what we’re saying is let’s get as much talent around the guy and all he’s got to do is make the right decision. He doesn’t have to put the team on his back and throw it 50 times a game. We may not throw it but 20 to 25 times a game but he’s got to make the right decision, get the ball into the hands of play makers and let them do what they’ve got to do."

If the Bills determine they still don't have a franchise quarterback, how do they get one? Free agency, the top of the draft? Whaley says the improvement of the team overall, puts them in a difficult spot when it comes to the best way to find a franchise QB.

"We’re almost in quarterback purgatory. We’re good enough that we’re not going to have the 1st or 2nd pick"(overall) Whaley said. "We hope we’re not in that position. Hopefully now we’re drafting in the teens and the 20’s and the 30’s so you’re not going to get those college guys that are coming out. Franchise quarterbacks in the free agent market? Name one, unless they have an injury. So the onus will be on our scouting staff to find a guy in the lower 1st round, 2nd or 3rd round. We accept that challenge, its where we are and its been good that we’ve got enough talent around them. We’re in that situation but its not an easy answer.

Is it QB purgatory or in a similar position where the Steelers and Ravens were before they grabbed Big Ben and Flacco respectively? Or even where the 49ers and Bengals were before they got Kaepernick and Dalton? Because if EJ/Cassel/Tyrod don't take us to the playoffs we'll have a top 20 pick. Maybe we end up drafting Christian Hackenberg, Cardale Jones or Jared Goff.

[Meathead]

well theres the point i think

the bills have maddeningly refused to take a qb in rounds 2-4 for the past forever. i can understand that they may have felt unlucky that nobody fell to them that they thought was value in that span, but they need to be taking shots with middling draft picks in order to have a chance hit on one

its not fair to look in hindsight, but we can all go thru draft history and see there were guys there to use those picks on. they dont have a golden horseshoe stuck up their ass like bill belicheat does so they arent going to get somebody super falling in their undeserving laps in round six, so they needed to have been throwing a pick at least once every couple of years to have a chance to get the russell wilson or whatever

whaley says in that interview (http://www.wgr550.com/Cassel-breaks-down-Rex-s-tricky-camp-defense-on-WG/21826223) that they have confidence in their scouting staff that they could find somebody late in round one or two if they have to next season, but frankly thats mostly horseѕhit. you could assemble the all-time dream team of the centuries best scouts and still their hit percentage on a late 1st/2nd round qb would at best be 20% to become a franchise guy

they didnt invest any early/mid picks until 2013, they went all-in on ej, they overpaid (probably) for sammy, so now they are in purgatory. im generally happy with the job whaley has done overall, but if they are in the position to have to draft a qb with their top pick next season it should be sink or swim for whaley here. and if that pick doesnt work out he should probably be fired

[The Jokeman]

well theres the point i think

the bills have maddeningly refused to take a qb in rounds 2-4 for the past forever. i can understand that they may have felt unlucky that nobody fell to them that they thought was value in that span, but they need to be taking shots with middling draft picks in order to have a chance hit on one

its not fair to look in hindsight, but we can all go thru draft history and see there were guys there to use those picks on. they dont have a golden horseshoe stuck up their ass like bill belicheat does so they arent going to get somebody super falling in their undeserving laps in round six, so they needed to have been throwing a pick at least once every couple of years to have a chance to get the russell wilson or whatever

whaley says in that interview (http://www.wgr550.com/Cassel-breaks-down-Rex-s-tricky-camp-defense-on-WG/21826223) that they have confidence in their scouting staff that they could find somebody late in round one or two if they have to next season, but frankly thats mostly horseѕhit. you could assemble the all-time dream team of the centuries best scouts and still their hit percentage on a late 1st/2nd round qb would at best be 20% to become a franchise guy

they didnt invest any early/mid picks until 2013, they went all-in on ej, they overpaid (probably) for sammy, so now they are in purgatory. im generally happy with the job whaley has done overall, but if they are in the position to have to draft a qb with their top pick next season it should be sink or swim for whaley here. and if that pick doesnt work out he should probably be fired

How did we overpay for EJ? We traded down to acquire him remember? As we could have had Tavon Austin, not gotten the pick we took Kiko with or even the pick to acquire Gragg. I know we reached for EJ when we drafted him but in retrospect in doing so it's allow us to build a better team around him/another QB. I mean looking over the last 3 drafts I would say EJ is as good as any QB drafted since. I realize Winston and Mariotta might prove me wrong yet not sure we'd end up with a top 2 pick this past year to get either one. I know some will chime on Bridgewater and/or Carr yet let's see what these guys do in their 2nd years.

[Meathead]

i said we overpaid for sammy not ej

if they had not used that extra pick for sammy then may have been able to use their 2nd or 3rd on a qb flyer. since they didnt have that, they really had no choice but to again pass on a qb prospect early. they did well with darby and miller but they coulda had a decent qb prospect in the pipeline already if they hadnt

[The Jokeman]

i said we overpaid for sammy not ej

if they had not used that pick for sammy then may have been able to use their 2nd or 3rd on a qb flyer. since they didnt have that, they really had no choice but to again pass on a qb prospect early. they did well with darby and miller but they coulda had a decent qb prospect in the pipeline already if they hadnt

Fair enough but I think people will learn sooner or later that Odell Beckham wasn't as good as his stats showed last year and that in the end Sammy is a better WR.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

You're splitting hairs a bit here.

Todd Collins was already on the squad when Kelly retired. They drafted him.

He was taken in 1995, so extend it to five qbs in 21 drafts if you like. It doesn't change my point, just the timeline.


They traded a 1st and 4th for Rob Johnson
They traded a 1st for Bledsoe
Then drafted Losman

It's not like they didn't use draft picks for QB's.

Trading for QBs is a different story though. In that case, you are dealing with a guy who was on another teams roster and they still think he's expendable. You also lose out on the chance to get a guy's cheap contract years. When we dealt for Bledsoe, he was already one of the highest paid players in the league.

[MillsapsBillsFan]

Maybe we should add one more QB to the mix sooner rather than later if the ones in camp are really as bad as the media is making them sound. Glennon, Mettenberger? We don't need much from a QB to make this team dangerous

[Meathead]

Fair enough but I think people will learn sooner or later that Odell Beckham wasn't as good as his stats showed last year and that in the end Sammy is a better WR.

sure hope so

[MillsapsBillsFan]

sure hope so

At the very least Beckham had a super bowl mvp qb throwing to him while sammy had the tire fire that is the bills QB situation. I hope sammy does well (I played against him all four years of high school so Im rooting for him) but its going to be hard to fairly compare the two until the bills have a set QB situation

[BillsImpossible]

Key word: 'Almost'

[swiper]

He was taken in 1995, so extend it to five qbs in 21 drafts if you like. It doesn't change my point, just the timeline.



Trading for QBs is a different story though. In that case, you are dealing with a guy who was on another teams roster and they still think he's expendable. You also lose out on the chance to get a guy's cheap contract years. When we dealt for Bledsoe, he was already one of the highest paid players in the league.

To emphasize your point, Losman, Edwards, and Manuel were ALL taken when the Bills were in a "MUST DRAFT A QB" situation. Good teams take a QBs when they may not need one, but they see one with potential and proper time to sit on him and develop him. Not this nightmare we are watching as the Bills are forcing a guy like Manuel to play before he's had time to sit and watch. He's like a deer in the headlights.

Each one of those 3 QBs were rushed in to playing far too quickly.

Levi Brown and Jeff Tuel were what they were. They never had a chance.

Kelly Holcomb, Travaris Jackson, Bedsoe, Nall, that other guy from Detroit, all were desperation moves. Can't get a QB that way.

[Jry44]

Yes they absolutely have refused. Jim Kelly retired after the 1996 season. It took the Bills eight drafts to draft one QB: JP Losman in 2004. Since Losman, we've taken three QBs in the following 11 drafts: Edwards, Levi Brown, and Manuel.

Four quarterbacks in 19 drafts!

For comparison, in 1997 Green Bay still had Brett Favre in his prime. They took 4 QBs (Ron McAda, Matt Hasselbeck, Aaron Brooks, and Craig Nall) before we took one. They've taken 5 QBs since drafting Aaron Rodgers.

New England has taken 7 QBs since Brady.

Indianapolis took 3 QBs while they still had Peyton Manning (before Luck), and Denver took another QB with their 2nd round pick immediately after signing Manning.

In the meantime, we've passed on Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, Colin Kaepernick, and Russell Wilson. Derek Carr and Teddy Bridgewater may ultimately join this list.

Ever hear of Todd Collins?

I can't blame you if you haven't, but he was a second round pick in 1995, was drafted to replace Kelly, but was a bust. So the effort has been there with Collins and the others that you have mentioned. They just have not worked out. It's the hardest position to find, and the quality of QB's entering the league is declining quickly. It's not looking good.....

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Ever hear of Todd Collins?

I can't blame you if you haven't, but he was a second round pick in 1995, was drafted to replace Kelly, but was a bust. So the effort has been there with Collins and the others that you have mentioned. They just have not worked out. It's the hardest position to find, and the quality of QB's entering the league is declining quickly. It's not looking good.....

I already addressed Collins upthread. But, I think you should take a step back and ask yourself if bringing up Todd Collins' draft 20 years ago really suggests the Bills have made an effort at the QB position.

[BertSquirtgum]

Phil Rivers in 2016 or bust.

[TacklingDummy]

Phil Rivers in 2016 or bust.

If the Bills want to make the Playoffs this year they should trade Dareus for Rivers.

[BuffaloRedleg]

i would LOVE to see them go back to letting DBs contact the receivers down the field. that would do it

but they wont. theyve never been raking in more ludicrous speed money than they are now and it appears its only going to keep going up from here. until the fans decide that a QBs-are-everything league is boring its going to stay this way

Thank you for causing me to watch this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0

[X-Era]

But you don't have to draft a QB/trade a 1st Rounder to find a QB.
Who said you did?

This is a game of likelihood of success. You want to make best effort to get the guy with the best chance to be the answer you need. Teams like NE and Sea have found the guy they need well out of the 1st round but it's a more unlikely route.

[X-Era]

He was taken in 1995, so extend it to five qbs in 21 drafts if you like. It doesn't change my point, just the timeline.



Trading for QBs is a different story though. In that case, you are dealing with a guy who was on another teams roster and they still think he's expendable. You also lose out on the chance to get a guy's cheap contract years. When we dealt for Bledsoe, he was already one of the highest paid players in the league.If you're only stating that we don't draft QB's often I'd agree. But if your stating that we don't use draft picks (even 1st rounders) to try to get the QB we need I'd disgaree.

I've said for years now that I would draft one or even two QB's in every draft. I wanted Petty out of this past draft. But since he wasn't a high 1st rounder many assumed he wasn't ever going to be good and wanted to pass on him. No idea how the Bills felt about him but they seemed interested.

If the team is as good as it might be (outside of QB) it may be time to go all in and get the QB... A bold move.

[TacklingDummy]

If the team is as good as it might be (outside of QB) it may be time to go all in and get the QB... A bold move.

It's not a bold move if you are interested in making the playoffs.

Like we have seen the past 15 years, the Bills can sign this free agent, that free agent, Draft X player, hire this coach, hire that coach, etc... it doesn't mean shlt without a Quarterback.

[better days]

I see Whaley often get criticized for drafting EJ in the first rnd.

A few things about that pick of EJ;

-The Bils traded down in that draft before drafting EJ which netted them Kiko & now Shady.

both Kiko & Shady are talented players who most people would have been happy with as a first rnd pick.

I think EJ can be viewed as a bonus pick because of that trade down.

If EJ does pan out great, if not, the Bills still got a talented player in Shady because of that draft.

-people criticize the Bills for not getting a QB, well in that draft at least they tried.

If EJ does not progress this year, the Bills need to draft the best QB they can next year.

[CleveSteve]

Phil Rivers in 2016 or bust.

So you're saying Phil Rivers or Hackenberg?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If you're only stating that we don't draft QB's often I'd agree. But if your stating that we don't use draft picks (even 1st rounders) to try to get the QB we need I'd disgaree.

I've said for years now that I would draft one or even two QB's in every draft. I wanted Petty out of this past draft. But since he wasn't a high 1st rounder many assumed he wasn't ever going to be good and wanted to pass on him. No idea how the Bills felt about him but they seemed interested.

If the team is as good as it might be (outside of QB) it may be time to go all in and get the QB... A bold move.

I'm saying that this claim that we haven't found a good QB because we rarely draft in the Top 3 is bogus. We haven't found a good QB because we don't make a serious effort to draft or develop them, instead trying to rescue QBs off the scrap heap. We frequently will bring in one prospective QB at a time and then fill out the roster with busted vets like Kolb, Cassel, Nall, Fitz, or any of the others you could name. The only time that worked was with Flutie, who wasn't as good as people remember and was gone in only a few years.

[trapezeus]

If the Bills want to make the Playoffs this year they should trade Dareus for Rivers.

so trade productive youth for a qb who has one year left on his contract, has been fairly adamant about not moving his family around and on the wrong side of 30?

what brilliance.

[TacklingDummy]

so trade productive youth for a qb who has one year left on his contract, has been fairly adamant about not moving his family around and on the wrong side of 30?

what brilliance.

He easily has 4-5 more productive years in him.

I'd rather have a productive QB over a overrated DT that disappeared the last 8 out of 9 games of the season.

[psubills62]

As much as I appreciate what Whaley has done with the rest of the roster...drafting Manuel is a part of why we're in this mess. Ugh.

[JoeMama]

I always pictured Purgatory as a comfortable waiting room, with a couple nice magazines to idly flip through, and maybe some adult contemporary playing softly in the background -- while God & Satan play rock, paper, scissors for your soul.

Clearly Doug Whaley and I do not see eye to eye on this.

Because I think judgment has already been rendered on our QB situation and we left Purgatory behind for the fiery pits of Hell a long time ago.

[Jry44]

I already addressed Collins upthread. But, I think you should take a step back and ask yourself if bringing up Todd Collins' draft 20 years ago really suggests the Bills have made an effort at the QB position.

Considering that they have traded for Bledsoe and Rob Johnson, and drafted two in the first round there after tells me that they have made the effort and have just failed. I agree that the years lost while developing these guys has been sickening, but the effort was definitely there. ****ty coaching since Marv Levy retired is just as much to blame as poor player evaluation at the position.

[Goobylal]

How many good QBs that the Bills have had a chance at have come out in the past 5 years? I'd say Russell Wilson, but many teams passed on him, several times. Anyone else?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

How many good QBs that the Bills have had a chance at have come out in the past 5 years? I'd say Russell Wilson, but many teams passed on him, several times. Anyone else?

Of the 31 other likely opening day starters, I count 18 that were drafted since 2010 (6 drafts). Of them, the Bills had no chance to draft 8 of them (Luck, Newton, Winston, Mariota, Tannehill, Bradford, Bortles, RG3)

The Bills passed on the other 10: (Garoppolo, Geno Smith, Dalton, Manziel, Mallett, Carr, Bridgewater, Wilson, Kaepernick, Foles)

I'll let you decide how many of those are "good," or how many backups would be starting prospects here.

[better days]

Of the 31 other likely opening day starters, I count 18 that were drafted since 2010 (6 drafts). Of them, the Bills had no chance to draft 8 of them (Luck, Newton, Winston, Mariota, Tannehill, Bradford, Bortles, RG3)

The Bills passed on the other 10: (Garoppolo, Geno Smith, Dalton, Manziel, Mallett, Carr, Bridgewater, Wilson, Kaepernick, Foles)

I'll let you decide how many of those are "good," or how many backups would be starting prospects here.

Of the 10:

Wilson- I WANTED the Bills to draft him.

Carr & Bridgewater may become GOOD QB's.

The rest is flotsam

[Goobylal]

Out of those 10, 7 are starting. One is upper echelon (Wilson), one is solid (Dalton), and the rest are question marks.

[Mike]

I see Whaley often get criticized for drafting EJ in the first rnd.

A few things about that pick of EJ;

-The Bils traded down in that draft before drafting EJ which netted them Kiko & now Shady.

both Kiko & Shady are talented players who most people would have been happy with as a first rnd pick.

I think EJ can be viewed as a bonus pick because of that trade down.

If EJ does pan out great, if not, the Bills still got a talented player in Shady because of that draft.

-people criticize the Bills for not getting a QB, well in that draft at least they tried.

If EJ does not progress this year, the Bills need to draft the best QB they can next year.

Your missing the Real Point.

When the Bills drafted EJ it meant they wouldn't draft another high prospect QB in the next 2 years. The next year Teddy Bridgewater fell and could have been drafted by the Bills and last year the Bills could have traded up for Derek Carr.

Another example is JP Lossman.

The Bills traded back in the 1st round, giving up the following year's 1st round pick to the Cowboys.

Instead They could have drafted Rogers the following year.

[Mike]

How did we overpay for EJ? We traded down to acquire him remember? As we could have had Tavon Austin, not gotten the pick we took Kiko with or even the pick to acquire Gragg. I know we reached for EJ when we drafted him but in retrospect in doing so it's allow us to build a better team around him/another QB. I mean looking over the last 3 drafts I would say EJ is as good as any QB drafted since. I realize Winston and Mariotta might prove me wrong yet not sure we'd end up with a top 2 pick this past year to get either one. I know some will chime on Bridgewater and/or Carr yet let's see what these guys do in their 2nd years.

Overpayment means to pay more for a good or service that the value that that good or service yields.

Your essentially arguing that EJ IS worthy of first round pick. Most fans, scouts & teams would completely disagree with you (both now & during draft).