it's time to stop d***ing around...

[ublinkwescore]

Name Tyrod "the Terminator" Taylor the damn starter already and start giving him reps with the starting WR corps and backs. If they weren't all banged up because of being overworked to get extra looks at all three qbs with the starters, He probably would have had about 13 points on the board with the offense at his command.

This offense moves with him, regardless of who we put in there with him. I say the argument is over. It's time to cut the BS and name him the starter so we can actually use our third preseason game as it is supposed to be used - as the tune-up game for the regular season.

If they don't name him the starter, I'm officially calling for Rex's head already. PERIOD.

[The Jokeman]

Name Tyrod "the Terminator" Taylor the damn starter already and start giving him reps with the starting WR corps and backs. If they weren't all banged up because of being overworked to get extra looks at all three qbs with the starters, He probably would have had about 13 points on the board with the offense at his command.

This offense moves with him, regardless of who we put in there with him. I say the argument is over. It's time to cut the BS and name him the starter so we can actually use our third preseason game as it is supposed to be used - as the tune-up game for the regular season.

If they don't name him the starter, I'm officially calling for Rex's head already. PERIOD.

Tyrod took a sack that cost us 3 points. It might not seem like a big deal but it is if you're looking to play mistake free football. Tyrod played well and convinced me he should now be in discussion to be our possible starter yet I'm not ready to hand him the ball to start as asking a guy with zero NFL starts and hasn't been over the top great passing the ball in two preseaons games is tough pill to swallow. He played much better tonight than he did against Carolina but still think Cassel might be the better thrower at this point.

[ublinkwescore]

Oh give me a break. That defense would have been gashed and playing scared if we have some starters. Point is, we posessed the ball for over half of the first quarter with Tyrod under center. You have to be blind and biased to not see this offense is most potent with Tyrod under center.

[The Jokeman]

Oh give me a break. That defense would have been gashed and playing scared if we have some starters. Point is, we posessed the ball for over half of the first quarter with Tyrod under center. You have to be blind and biased to not see this offense is most potent with Tyrod under center.

The Browns were banged up in the secondary too, are you forgetting they didn't have their Pro Bowl CB Hayden or FS Tashaun Gipson out there? Toss in their nickel back (albeit he's horrible) Gilbert too?

[Jimkelly12203]

He took a BAD sack. And he better learn from it. But he's the guy as far as i'm concerned.

[Oaf]

He took a BAD sack. And he better learn from it. But he's the guy as far as i'm concerned.

If you've ever played QB, you'd know rolling right, you can't see guys peeling from the left. He set his feet and the guy's on him. He had zero time to throw the ball away. This is after standing tall and converting three straight contested 3rd down passes.

He didn't miss the FG, and neither will Carp 90% of the time.

[Jimkelly12203]

If you've ever played QB, you'd know rolling right, you can't see guys peeling from the left. He set his feet and the guy's on him. He had zero time to throw the ball away. This is after standing tall and converting three straight contested 3rd down passes.

He didn't miss the FG, and neither will Carp 90% of the time.

You're preaching to the choir brother. he nailed it.

But if we want to be perfectionists that was a sack we can't afford to take.

No doubt the dude was solid yet again.

He's my guy.

[The Jokeman]

If you've ever played QB, you'd know rolling right, you can't see guys peeling from the left. He set his feet and the guy's on him. He had zero time to throw the ball away. This is after standing tall and converting three straight contested 3rd down passes.

He didn't miss the FG, and neither will Carp 90% of the time.

Any FG that is more than 45 yards should be considered a 50/50 shot even with Carp. Also small red flag is Tyrod's struggles passing in the red zone.

- - - Updated - - -


You're preaching to the choir brother. he nailed it.

But if we want to be perfectionists that was a sack we can't afford to take.

No doubt the dude was solid yet again.

He's my guy.

He was solid but not great, that's why I say Cassel still is in the discussion.

[ublinkwescore]

:yap:

[OpIv37]

the Tyrod love comes from homers desperate to convince themselves that the team is making the playoffs rather than facing reality this early.

Don't get me wrong- he's probably the best shot we have. But it's still not much of a shot.

[The Jokeman]

:yap:

He's 0-3 passing inside the 20 this preseason. Calling it chirping but it is a concern as teams might start putting 8 in the box inside the 20 and say what you want but being a poor team in the red zone is a big concern for this team the last two seasons.

[ublinkwescore]

the Tyrod love comes from homers desperate to convince themselves that the team is making the playoffs rather than facing reality this early.

Don't get me wrong- he's probably the best shot we have. But it's still not much of a shot.

have you seen the guy play yet? or the offense with him under center yet? he does more than just scramble for nice chunks of yards. Just saying. And like I said - when was the last time we have put together a drive that consumed over a half of a quarter?

[ublinkwescore]

And for the record, I know this is only preseason, and this may or may not transfer over to the regular season. but for now, yes, I am optimistic. when September 13th gets here, I don't really know what to expect, but I hope some of this translates over to the regular season.

[Jimkelly12203]

the Tyrod love comes from homers desperate to convince themselves that the team is making the playoffs rather than facing reality this early.

Don't get me wrong- he's probably the best shot we have. But it's still not much of a shot.

I'll trash any person or player associated with this team tomorrow if it is warranted. No homerism here. I expect the worst. I've been conditioned to just like all of you.

That doesn't change the fact that Tyrod Taylor is (easily) the best option at QB for this ultra talented roster.

Taylor is our best QB. Until he is not. For now, i think he's the no-brainer. Could my opinion change after two regular season weeks of crap play?

Abso-freaking-lutely.

That's the great part about being a fan. You can change your convictions week to week.

Most NFL coaches don't have that luxury. But Rex and Roman don't have to worry about being fired. They're still in the honey-moon phase of life here and hopefully T-pegs is more like the Steeler's ownership than he is like the Cowboys (people need time to implement their plan, no more of this 3 years and out BS).

All the more reason why it should be Tyrod. Think big. Aim high. Mediocrity won't do you **** in this league unless you're coaching for your job. Our coaches are not. At least not yet.

There's an "it" factor with Taylor.

I was pretty confident that i saw enough to name Tyrod after last week. After this week with a skeleton crew at the skill positions, i'm absolutely putting all my chips in.

It's Taylor time baby and i love it. I'll literally be SHOCKED if he's not named the starter.

[OpIv37]

have you seen the guy play yet? or the offense with him under center yet? he does more than just scramble for nice chunks of yards. Just saying. And like I said - when was the last time we have put together a drive that consumed over a half of a quarter?

I saw him play in the first game. I missed the first half of the Browns game so I didn't see him there. His scrambling ability is phenomenal and he seems to keep his eyes downfield, but he's one read and then it's all legs. And he's undersized so that's not a sustainable situation. He can't go through the progressions.

[OpIv37]

I'll trash any person or player associated with this team tomorrow if it is warranted. No homerism here. I expect the worst. I've been conditioned to just like all of you.

That doesn't change the fact that Tyrod Taylor is (easily) the best option at QB for this ultra talented roster.

Taylor is our best QB. Until he is not. For now, i think he's the no-brainer. Could my opinion change after two regular season weeks of crap play?

Abso-freaking-lutely.

That's the great part about being a fan. You can change your convictions week to week.

Most NFL coaches don't have that luxury. But Rex and Roman don't have to worry about being fired. They're still in the honey-moon phase of life here and hopefully T-pegs is more like the Steeler's ownership than he is like the Cowboys (people need time to implement their plan, no more of this 3 years and out BS).

All the more reason why it should be Tyrod. Think big. Aim high. Mediocrity won't do you **** in this league unless you're coaching for your job. Our coaches are not. At least not yet.

There's an "it" factor with Taylor.

I was pretty confident that i saw enough to name Tyrod after last week. After this week with a skeleton crew at the skill positions, i'm absolutely putting all my chips in.

It's Taylor time baby and i love it. I'll literally be SHOCKED if he's not named the starter.

See my previous comments. At this point, I agree that he seems like the best shot. I just don't think it's much of a shot.

I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong. Maybe, with a little experience he learns to utilize 2nd and 3rd options and becomes a legit starter. But right now, that's not who he is. If his first option is covered, he scrambles. Given his athleticism, that will result in some spectacular plays. But given the fact that this is the NFL and there is a lot of athleticism on opposing D's, it will result in negative plays, big hits, and eventually an injury.

[ICRockets]

I saw him play in the first game. I missed the first half of the Browns game so I didn't see him there. His scrambling ability is phenomenal and he seems to keep his eyes downfield, but he's one read and then it's all legs. And he's undersized so that's not a sustainable situation. He can't go through the progressions.

This is such a bull**** argument. Russell Wilson is undersized, too. He's still the guy under center for the 2-time defending NFC Champions. Durability has not been a concern for him.

[WagonCircler]

This team is fuct.

No QB, no playoffs.

And we have no QB.

[Mr. Pink]

Dink, dunk, read option run was the first half offense...

He did exactly what people blasted Cassel for last week throwing the ball, and now people want to anoint Taylor the starter? And he did that while Cleveland's best corner didn't even play.

He showed absolutely nothing that he won the QB job. Hell, EJ Manuel outperformed him last night.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Dink, dunk, read option run was the first half offense...

He did exactly what people blasted Cassel for last week throwing the ball, and now people want to anoint Taylor the starter? And he did that while Cleveland's best corner didn't even play.

He showed absolutely nothing that he won the QB job. Hell, EJ Manuel outperformed him last night. AGAIN!

[djjimkelly]

Dink, dunk, read option run was the first half offense...

He did exactly what people blasted Cassel for last week throwing the ball, and now people want to anoint Taylor the starter? And he did that while Cleveland's best corner didn't even play.

He showed absolutely nothing that he won the QB job. Hell, EJ Manuel outperformed him last night.

and mr pink strongly dislikes EJ

what i see from this competion is that all 3 are about the same. i still say EJ has the most upside.

i dont care who wins the job i just want the bills to win :)

[coastal]

This team is fuct.

No QB, no playoffs.

And we have no QB.
And Whaley is still employed why exactly?

[Night Train]

LOL. That it's driving some people crazy is awesome.

Rex impresses me even more by refusing to announce the QB. He probably wants to sit down behind closed doors with Roman and discuss it over the next 24 hours. It's probably Taylor but I wouldn't die if it was Cassel. Our QB situation isn't anything great but it's not nearly as dire as many here believe.

The real worry is getting the RB's and WR's healthy for the Indy opener. Focus on that.

[OpIv37]

This is such a bull**** argument. Russell Wilson is undersized, too. He's still the guy under center for the 2-time defending NFC Champions. Durability has not been a concern for him.

When all else fails, rely on the old BZ mantra of using the exception to prove the rule.

[trapezeus]

the Tyrod love comes from homers desperate to convince themselves that the team is making the playoffs rather than facing reality this early.

Don't get me wrong- he's probably the best shot we have. But it's still not much of a shot.

homer? we have 4 qbs. two that have no shot to be the starter.

in all the previous preseasons, we saw tire fires after tire fires with people saying, "oh, they aren't game planning, it'll be different once it starts".

I saw an offense that ran for 3-4 yards a carry with the 6th and 7th running back on our depth chart. they ran basic plays and they worked. the throws were catchable (sans the throw away). There were no INTs.

homers were the guys looking at the last few preseasons and thinking it would be different.

i saw a team that actually looked like a capable NFL team that doesn't need too many excuses. Clearly they need to clean it up and let gameplanning create mismatches. but the plays i saw worked.

Ej on the other hand threw worm burners as well as a TD pass. it's too inconsistent. that makes for short drives and ultimately lose the field goal battle.

Tyrods ability to simply move the ball all half, keeps the defense fresh and hopefully wears down a team.

That being said, tyrod needs to improve on making throws when he's moving and not rely on run. he also needs to slide or he's not making it through the season.

supporting tyrod at this point is not a declaration that he'll be an allstar, but he gives us the best shot at making the playoffs.

[Joe Fo Sho]

And Whaley is still employed why exactly?

Probably because we have one of the best defenses in the NFL.

It's not like the guy can just go down to the local quarterback store and pick one up along with a gallon of milk. The QB market has been terrible over the last few years.

I would like to hear how you would have remedied our QB problem.

[better days]

Tyrod & EJ both had good games with the lesser talented players around them.

Despite lack of talent at the WR & RB position, the Bills moved the ball at will.

It reminds me of the Patriots*. No matter who is on the field, they do what they do & win games.

Well, Tyrod & EJ are not Brady, but I think we are seeing the tip of the iceberg with Roman's offense & any of the Bills QB's will be able to move the ball & put up points in that offense.

Rex has said the Bills don't have a great QB, but they have three QB's that are good enough to win in the NFL & I think he knows what he is talking about.

As for EJ, he has moved the ball better than both Cassel & Taylor in the first two games & so far is the only QB that has thrown a TD.

And as for naming a starter, Rex has said he will not do that until he has to. Make the Colts prepare for all three QB's who each have a different skill set.

[OpIv37]

EJ's accuracy is still off. On that one 3rd and long play, he scrambled and bought time and through to a guy that was triple covered. He could have completed the pass if he led the WR, but the WR had to slow down and the defender caught up.

On the next drive he had a guy wide open in the flats but he overthrew and the WR had to lay out for it, costing YAC.

Same old EJ.

[better days]

EJ's accuracy is still off. On that one 3rd and long play, he scrambled and bought time and through to a guy that was triple covered. He could have completed the pass if he led the WR, but the WR had to slow down and the defender caught up.

On the next drive he had a guy wide open in the flats but he overthrew and the WR had to lay out for it, costing YAC.

Same old EJ.

NITPICKING about EJ.

So what if he is not the most accurate QB.

EJ has moved the ball better than both Cassel & Taylor & has two TD's & 0 INT's.

At this point, EJ is the QB with the highest rating of all the Bills QB's with a rating of 117.2

And it is very difficult to intercept a pass thrown into the ground.

[Ingtar33]

I saw him play in the first game. I missed the first half of the Browns game so I didn't see him there. His scrambling ability is phenomenal and he seems to keep his eyes downfield, but he's one read and then it's all legs. And he's undersized so that's not a sustainable situation. He can't go through the progressions.

then you missed the browns game. he was scanning the field, finding the open guy and zinging it out to them all game. the only time he was one read all night was when we ran the lone read option play of the half (that's right, we ran one) and when we ran that screen play that the browns blew up (taylor chose to keep it rather then throw it to a guy being mugged by 3 browns, he gained 8 yards, it was pretty good)

personally taylor convinced me he could be an nfl starter last night. and since cassel doesn't' bring the legs taylor does, i think it's a no brainer, the starting job is taylors to lose now.

as for EJ, throwing good against 3rd and 4th stringers is hardly proving anything. He was typical EJ. Threw a lot of dumb passes, threw some into the dirt, and when he had a guy open on a post or slant, he would throw it so behind him that the play was broken up by the DB. He was typically inconsistent and looked identical to how he looked last year.

[better days]

then you missed the browns game. he was scanning the field, finding the open guy and zinging it out to them all game. the only time he was one read all night was when we ran the lone read option play of the half (that's right, we ran one) and when we ran that screen play that the browns blew up (taylor chose to keep it rather then throw it to a guy being mugged by 3 browns, he gained 8 yards, it was pretty good)

personally taylor convinced me he could be an nfl starter last night. and since cassel doesn't' bring the legs taylor does, i think it's a no brainer, the starting job is taylors to lose now.

I said Tyrod was electric in the Panthers game & he was every bit as electric in the Browns game.

So far, Cassel has shown the least of all the QB's in preseason games although he had no chance to show anything in the Browns game.

[Yasgur's Farm]

QB Box Score through scrimmage and 2nd preseason game...

Manuel - 18/33 - 292 yds - 8.85 yds/a - 3 td's - 0 int's - 117.23 pr
Taylor - 20/31 - 191 yds - 6.16 yds/a - 0 td's - 0 int's - 81.52 pr
Cassel - 9/14 - 72 yds - 5.14 yds/a - 0 td's - 0 int's - 77.08 pr

[OpIv37]

NITPICKING about EJ.

So what if he is not the most accurate QB.

EJ has moved the ball better than both Cassel & Taylor & has two TD's & 0 INT's.

At this point, EJ is the QB with the highest rating of all the Bills QB's with a rating of 117.2

And it is very difficult to intercept a pass thrown into the ground.
It's nitpicking to criticize killing a drive by not leading a WR enough and missing what should have been a nice third and long conversion? Wow, just wow.

That ball likely would have been intercepted if he threw it against a starting CB.

[WagonCircler]

And Whaley is still employed why exactly?

Because he and Russ Brandon are two of a kind. In the words of Charlton Ogburn:

"We trained hard ... but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization."

That's this team's real goal. It's not winning, it's reshuffling the deck to create the illusion of progress, in order to sell tickets.

[better days]

It's nitpicking to criticize killing a drive by not leading a WR enough and missing what should have been a nice third and long conversion? Wow, just wow.

That ball likely would have been intercepted if he threw it against a starting CB.

LOL, you criticize justa for making assumptions, but you do it all the time.

EVERY QB misses some throws, even Brady & Manning.

EJ has put up better numbers than both Cassel & Taylor.

And on this team, as long as the QB does not turn the ball over, the Bills will win.

So far none of the QB's have even one INT. If they can keep that up, the Bills will make the playoffs.

[bdutton]

If Tyrod starts (I like his play so far) we will need to keep at least 3 QB's on the active roster because he will get injured. He exposes himself to hits and general wear and tear running around as much as he does.

Cassel is the obvious backup but plays a completely different style.

EJ might actually end up being the backup since he has better physical talents but just needs more consistent performance.

[Jimkelly12203]

I was impressed with Taylor and would most likely make him the starter. But I was really trying to key in on this last night and I don't think I saw him look beyond his primary option even one time. Even if he is a one read, then run or throw it away QB he might still be the best option we have (which is an indictment on our QB situation if there ever was one). And maybe they're only asking him to look at first options in that game, but I doubt it. I like the guys throw, I think he's pretty accurate, I think he has good poise, command of the huddle and presence. But if we're not going to look beyond the primary target 60+ percent of the time (just throwing a number out there) it is going to severely limit the offense.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I don't understand how much more could have been expected. Preseason with zero starting RBs or WRs to help him out and he looked decent. He absolutely did not dink and dunk, he threw a couple nice balls that Watkins/Harvin catch easy. There also was that TD pass that was dropped.

It wasn't earth shattering but wtf do people expect. It's a vanilla offense with zero threats.

This is what is wrong with society these days. Somebody either sucks or is amazing. He looked fine even despite the awful circumstances, so I think some of you guys are seeing things through poo covered glasses. I really want to know what more he could have been expected to do.

As for him starting, I'd just give it to him. He has put him self equal with Cassel now, so game 3 will really be the showcase.

[OpIv37]

LOL, you criticize justa for making assumptions, but you do it all the time.

EVERY QB misses some throws, even Brady & Manning.

EJ has put up better numbers than both Cassel & Taylor.

And on this team, as long as the QB does not turn the ball over, the Bills will win.

So far none of the QB's have even one INT. If they can keep that up, the Bills will make the playoffs.

Brady and Manning have been accurate far more often than not. So, if they miss a pass or two in preseason it's not a sign of concern- they have proven themselves.

EJ, on the other hand, has always struggled with accuracy. So, when he throws inaccurately, it's a sign that he isn't improving.

Just like justa, you fail to see distinctions.

[Mr. Pink]

and mr pink strongly dislikes EJ

what i see from this competion is that all 3 are about the same. i still say EJ has the most upside.

i dont care who wins the job i just want the bills to win :)

I dunno if I'd agree that EJ has the most upside but he has certainly performed on the field the best of the three this preseason. And you're right I still don't like him as a QB, he has absolutely no consistency and makes far too many bad plays.

I just don't understand these people who blasted Cassel's preseason game 1 performance for dink and dunk turning around and praising Taylor for it last night.

The first three quarters of that game was typical Browns - Bills mindnumbingly boring football. Dunno what it is about those teams that when they matchup the game is a snoozefest.

[better days]

I dunno if I'd agree that EJ has the most upside but he has certainly performed on the field the best of the three this preseason. And you're right I still don't like him as a QB, he has absolutely no consistency and makes far too many bad plays.

I just don't understand these people who blasted Cassel's preseason game 1 performance for dink and dunk turning around and praising Taylor for it last night.

The first three quarters of that game was typical Browns - Bills mindnumbingly boring football. Dunno what it is about those teams that when they matchup the game is a snoozefest.

Look at the numbers.

Cassel had less than 6 yds per attempt.

Tyrod had over 6 yds per attempt & he can run as well which Cassel can't do.

[LVGrown]

I am not really understanding the Taylor love either. He scored 3 points in an entire half going against a beat up defense. Yes, I understand our offense is just as beat up, but he did nothing. The story of the last 15 years is moving the ball just fine between the 20's and nothing in the redzone.

I also agree that EJ has done more with less, but he frustrated me more than once last night. I do like that he trys to make plays with his arm and not feet. I feel like both games his surrounding cast has done everything in their power to help him fail with the BS penalties and hes still managed to put points on the board.

If Taylor is the starter be prepared for 125 yards passing with 75-100 rushing every game from him. Not exactly what I want from my QB.

[ublinkwescore]

The only thing EJ Manuel is consistent at is being inconsistent. Sorry, but I don't want that at all. And I am pretty confident that taylor will pass for over 20 touchdowns if given a full season with at least 3 of our best starters on the field - Watkins, Woods, Harvin, Clay, McCoy, Jackson, Williams/Brown.

[ublinkwescore]

I am not really understanding the Taylor love either. He scored 3 points in an entire half going against a beat up defense. Yes, I understand our offense is just as beat up, but he did nothing. The story of the last 15 years is moving the ball just fine between the 20's and nothing in the redzone.

I also agree that EJ has done more with less, but he frustrated me more than once last night. I do like that he trys to make plays with his arm and not feet. I feel like both games his surrounding cast has done everything in their power to help him fail with the BS penalties and hes still managed to put points on the board.

If Taylor is the starter be prepared for 125 yards passing with 75-100 rushing every game from him. Not exactly what I want from my QB.

Ummmm, our offense was beat up even worse, and that should have been 6 points if it wasnt for the occasional fg hiccup rearing it's ugly head. And if we are healthy, I bet there is a td in one of his drives.

[ICRockets]

I really don't understand some of you ****in idiots. We come into training camp with an absolutely ABYSMAL qb situation. Tyrod Taylor goes out there 2 weeks in a row and just looks different from what we've had the last few years. He has confidence, he has swagger, he has the drive to make plays with his feet when needed and he has the field vision to throw AT the sticks on 3rd down instead of a yard and a half behind them.

And you bozos complain that it's not enough for you because he isn't lighting the world on fire, as if that's a reasonable expectation in his first 2 partial games running this offense, knowing that we entered training camp with an absolutely abysmal QB situation.

Tyrod Taylor's ceiling is so much higher than EJ and Cassel. That much is abundantly clear through 2 preseason games. This competition should be over. Tyrod is our best option. Anybody with even half a brain doesn't need him to be Peyton Manning to acknowledge that much.

[trapezeus]

LOL, you criticize justa for making assumptions, but you do it all the time.

EVERY QB misses some throws, even Brady & Manning.

EJ has put up better numbers than both Cassel & Taylor.

And on this team, as long as the QB does not turn the ball over, the Bills will win.

So far none of the QB's have even one INT. If they can keep that up, the Bills will make the playoffs.

you of all people know that numbers don't always tell the same story. From OTA to now, the 3 qbs have been given time to learn and show what they can do. and it seems like cassel and tyrod took advantage. EJ has the high ceiling and athleticim. I am sure the coaches would have liked him to get it.

but he's buried with the 3's. HE looks exactly as he did as a raw rookie. We know what the bills good d looks like with an inconsistent offense. We need to try it with a consistent offense and see if we can pick up 2 more wins that way.

If EJ played like tyrod and was able to put his passes where they needed to be (even against 2 and 3's) i would have said its a case to see him in preseason game 3. but when he had to be mobile, you could tell he didn't know if he wanted to pass or run. which eventually screwed up any opportunity to pick up yards scrambling. He stuck in plays where the blitz wasn't picked up.

These are the things he needs to show that he's moving forward. otherwise you have aguy who can occassionaly zing a 50 yard pass on target.

If you really want to see the difference between the QB's, look at how many drives they had in each game. Tyrod had 3 for the first half (4 if you include the 28 second run out). EJ's drives ended in punts. His were prolonged because of penalties. IT's just not there yet. and going against the 3s, even with a WR as a rb, he should feel capable of slinging the ball all over the place on 2nd and 10. and yet, nothing changed.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I'm confident a lot of people never actually saw Tyrod play. Comparing stats and getting worked up over no TDs/low passing yards betrays a fundamental misunderstanding with how to evaluate talent in Football, especially during a preseason game where every starting RB and WR was out.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm confident a lot of people never actually saw Tyrod play. Comparing stats and getting worked up over no TDs/low passing yards betrays a fundamental misunderstanding with how to evaluate talent in Football, especially during a preseason game where every starting RB and WR was out.

He's Terrelle Pryor.

What is Pryor up to these days?

[Yasgur's Farm]

I'm confident a lot of people never actually saw Tyrod play. Comparing stats and getting worked up over no TDs/low passing yards betrays a fundamental misunderstanding with how to evaluate talent in Football, especially during a preseason game where every starting RB and WR was out.Please... Tell us more about this fundamental misunderstanding. BTW... I've watched every snap possible by our QB's.

Bottom line is this... They'd look awful foolish to name a starter who has zero TD passes vs 3, has 46% fewer yards per pass attempt, has 43% worse passer rating, AND (for those who insist on pointing out EJ's past seasons) has a far worse historical completion percentage both in the NFL and college.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Please... Tell us more about this fundamental misunderstanding. BTW... I've watched every snap possible by our QB's.

Bottom line is this... They'd look awful foolish to name a starter who has zero TD passes vs 3, has 46% fewer yards per pass attempt, has 43% worse passer rating, AND (for those who insist on pointing out EJ's past seasons) has a far worse historical completion percentage both in the NFL and college.

You are talking about stats like they are the thing that matters in pre-season. Tyrod played with energy and had perfectly acceptable yards per attempt plus the 41 rushing yards. He threw a perfectly catchable TD pass and a few other long passes that were passes that Watkins catches every time. You can cherry pick any stats you want in preseason to justify an opinion, that's the tough thing about preseason evaluations. Every single WR and RB was out, that has a massive impact on stats that you have to adjust for. EJ played against scrubs I can't give him too much credit.

Watching the game and evaluating the performance is what matters, not stats. You should know better.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Cheery picking? Who's the guy tossing out anything that doesn't support his argument? I suppose it just happens to be which side of the tree your peeking from.

In any event... I want EJ and TT to end up 1 and 2 by whatever method the decision makers chose... Cassel on this roster is a waste of $4.5M.

[better days]

you of all people know that numbers don't always tell the same story. From OTA to now, the 3 qbs have been given time to learn and show what they can do. and it seems like cassel and tyrod took advantage. EJ has the high ceiling and athleticim. I am sure the coaches would have liked him to get it.

but he's buried with the 3's. HE looks exactly as he did as a raw rookie. We know what the bills good d looks like with an inconsistent offense. We need to try it with a consistent offense and see if we can pick up 2 more wins that way.

If EJ played like tyrod and was able to put his passes where they needed to be (even against 2 and 3's) i would have said its a case to see him in preseason game 3. but when he had to be mobile, you could tell he didn't know if he wanted to pass or run. which eventually screwed up any opportunity to pick up yards scrambling. He stuck in plays where the blitz wasn't picked up.

These are the things he needs to show that he's moving forward. otherwise you have aguy who can occassionaly zing a 50 yard pass on target.

If you really want to see the difference between the QB's, look at how many drives they had in each game. Tyrod had 3 for the first half (4 if you include the 28 second run out). EJ's drives ended in punts. His were prolonged because of penalties. IT's just not there yet. and going against the 3s, even with a WR as a rb, he should feel capable of slinging the ball all over the place on 2nd and 10. and yet, nothing changed.

Some players like Trent Edwards are great practice QB's but suck in real games.

Others play better in games than in practice. I would hope Rex gives EJ a chance with the starters to see how he plays in this system in a game with & against starters.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Cheery picking? Who's the guy tossing out anything that doesn't support his argument? I suppose it just happens to be which side of the tree your peeking from.

In any event... I want EJ and TT to end up 1 and 2 by whatever method the decision makers chose... Cassel on this roster is a waste of $4.5M.

That's my point. We can both cherry pick things to make the stats fit an agenda. Stats are useless in pre-season. You are relying on stats to make your judgement, when you can clearly see while he played that he showed the ability to move the ball on sustained long drives. He extended 3 drives with his arm on 3 separate 3rd and longs.

[trapezeus]

it's not like EJ is favre. when he's playing a real game it all just clicks. he's a raw qb that the coaches need to see develop. and developing to me means, know when a blitz is coming and check out of it. it means, put balls in places to be caught even if coverage is tight. HE needed to show when he wanted to scramble, he scrambled and when he wanted to move to throw downfield, he did so effectively.

Then you can say, "he played with the 3s...his fundamentals look like they'll translate to be better with better players."

the numbers don't show that.

For tyrod and cassel, they had longer drives. and for pre-season, i don't want punts. i want converted 3rd downs.

all three can still end up as trent edwards and its not a stretch of the imagination. but for cassel and tyrod that would be going backwards...for ej that would be an improvement.

[Jimkelly12203]

I dunno if I'd agree that EJ has the most upside but he has certainly performed on the field the best of the three this preseason.

I'm baffled because i think that this is truly your honest opinion.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm baffled because i think that this is truly your honest opinion.

It is my honest opinion. And it's true.

Although it's not too surprising since a 1st round QB should be able to shine against 3rd stringers.

EJ in the two minute drill produced a TD, Tyrod had a 2 minute drill last week and produced dink dunk punt.

EJ has thrown the best pass so far of the three QBs in the preseason. And EJ has lead the team to the most points.

[BuffaloRedleg]

It is my honest opinion. And it's true.

Although it's not too surprising since a 1st round QB should be able to shine against 3rd stringers.

EJ in the two minute drill produced a TD, Tyrod had a 2 minute drill last week and produced dink dunk punt.

EJ has thrown the best pass so far of the three QBs in the preseason. And EJ has lead the team to the most points.

Um against 3rd stringers. Yahoo.

[ICRockets]

Um against 3rd stringers. Yahoo.

But you can't hold that against him. If that's your best argument against EJ Manuel, then what it really is is an argument that he needs to start Game 3 so we can actually see him against better defenders. Personally, I think we need to name Tyrod our guy and then make it a competition for #2 between EJ and Cassel.

[Jimkelly12203]

We have competent people running this organization for the first time in a while. IF Roman and Rex don't think EJ is good enough to take precious reps with the 1s in practice, scrimmages and pre-season games, that is quite telling.

[BuffaloRedleg]

But you can't hold that against him. If that's your best argument against EJ Manuel, then what it really is is an argument that he needs to start Game 3 so we can actually see him against better defenders. Personally, I think we need to name Tyrod our guy and then make it a competition for #2 between EJ and Cassel.

It's funny I was just thinking that. You are right, I can't hold it against him. They are all just doing what they can with what they have to work with.

I guess a way to look at is like this:

EJ performed 7/10 with 2/10 talent against 2/10 talent.

Tyrod performed 6/10 with 4/10 talent against 6/10 talent.

That sounded better in my head, but I think you get the gist.

[ublinkwescore]

He's Terrelle Pryor.

What is Pryor up to these days?

I am thoroughly convinced that you need help.

[Buffalogic]

Bills fans so starved for a qb they always elevate the new and flashy unknown guy into some kind of savior. It's a sickness.

[The Jokeman]

Bills fans so starved for a qb they always elevate the new and flashy unknown guy into some kind of savior. It's a sickness.

The grass is always greener or in this case Tyrod is a less proven QB so he has more potential so he must be better. (Not how I feel but how most fans see it).

[BillsImpossible]

Bills fans so starved for a qb they always elevate the new and flashy unknown guy into some kind of savior. It's a sickness.

Uh....when's the last time a quarterback for the Buffalo Bills has played like Tyrod Taylor in the preseason?

Nevuh.

[better days]

The grass is always greener or in this case Tyrod is a less proven QB so he has more potential so he must be better. (Not how I feel but how most fans see it).

Most fans saw Tyrod out play Cassel the first two games.

[Buffalogic]

How can you outplay someone who throws 5 passes in game 1 and 0 in game two? You people are ****ing ridic.

[Buffalogic]

Uh....when's the last time a quarterback for the Buffalo Bills has played like Tyrod Taylor in the preseason?

Nevuh.
Wow how can you be so impressed with 0 td passes in two games? What's wrong with you???

[better days]

How can you outplay someone who throws 5 passes in game 1 and 0 in game two? You people are ****ing ridic.

It is not so much what Cassel didn't do as what Tyrod did.

We saw Tyrod relieve Cassel in the first game & he played much better than Cassel in that game.

Then in game 2 against the Browns starters, Tyrod had a 9 minute drive which was much better than both of the two drives Cassel had against the Panthers.

And Tyrod did that with none of the Bills starting receivers or running backs against the Browns first team defense.

[The Jokeman]

Uh....when's the last time a quarterback for the Buffalo Bills has played like Tyrod Taylor in the preseason?

Nevuh.

I'm sure someone has as what has Tyrod done that's so great?

[The Jokeman]

It is not so much what Cassel didn't do as what Tyrod did.

We saw Tyrod relieve Cassel in the first game & he played much better than Cassel in that game.

Then in game 2 against the Browns starters, Tyrod had a 9 minute drive which was much better than both of the two drives Cassel had against the Panthers.

And Tyrod did that with none of the Bills starting receivers or running backs against the Browns first team defense.

a first string defense that was missing 2 starting DBs and how many points did he get? 3 and most of those can be thanked to Darby's two pass interceptions.

[better days]

a first string defense that was missing 2 starting DBs and how many points did he get? 3 and most of those can be thanked to Darby's two pass interceptions.

I will take a 9 minute drive any time.

That keeps the defense fresh.

And it should have been 6 points, not 3.

[Buffalogic]

It wasn't. It was a field goal. And he took a terrible sack which effectively took 3 points off the board.

[better days]

It wasn't. It was a field goal. And he took a terrible sack which effectively took 3 points off the board.

Even so, he outplayed Cassel.

[The Jokeman]

I will take a 9 minute drive any time.

That keeps the defense fresh.

And it should have been 6 points, not 3.

I agree it was a great drive. Yet his sack was a costly mistake.

- - - Updated - - -

It's easy to outplay a guy who didn't even play.

[BillsImpossible]

It wasn't. It was a field goal. And he took a terrible sack which effectively took 3 points off the board.

It was not a terrible sack. He didn't fumble, and he didn't make a stupid pass. He took the sack and held on to the ball.

Carpenter should have made that field goal.

The fact that Tyrod Taylor drove the offense down the field with a first string offensive line, 2nd string wide receivers, and 6th and 7th string running backs is remarkable.

[ICRockets]

I agree it was a great drive. Yet his sack was a costly mistake.


Who gives a ****? We don't have Drew Brees on the roster, so nitpicking isolated errors from the guy who CLEARLY has the most upside at the position is, at best, really ****ing idiotic.

[The Jokeman]

Who gives a ****? We don't have Drew Brees on the roster, so nitpicking isolated errors from the guy who CLEARLY has the most upside at the position is, at best, really ****ing idiotic.

Because Tyrod also has the biggest downside of any QB on this roster outside of Simms. I'm 50/50 on the QB thing and Tyrod and/or Cassel still have to prove to me that either one has won the job as neither has yet in my eyes but all things being equal today. I start the guy with NFL experience over the guy without it.

[BillsImpossible]

Because Tyrod also has the biggest downside of any QB on this roster outside of Simms.

Haven't seen it.

[The Jokeman]

Haven't seen it.

You haven't seen Tyrod fail to complete 3 TD passes in the redzone? You haven't seen him eye his first receiver and chuck the ball down field without looking for open guys? You haven't seen him dump it off to a running back when a WR was open? You didn't see him to fail to get a first down in a 2 minute offense when he had 4 downs once they stopped him from running that eventual lead to Carolina scoring? Maybe you're not watching the games as close as I am and/or want to forget these things because it doesn't fit in your excitement of the next great QB. Who most think compares to Vick whom I feel is an inferior QB.

[better days]

Because Tyrod also has the biggest downside of any QB on this roster outside of Simms. I'm 50/50 on the QB thing and Tyrod and/or Cassel still have to prove to me that either one has won the job as neither has yet in my eyes but all things being equal today. I start the guy with NFL experience over the guy without it.

Well, we will see if Rex & Roman agree with you.

The mediocre vet or the dynamic player with little experience.

[The Jokeman]

Well, we will see if Rex & Roman agree with you.

The mediocre vet or the dynamic player with little experience.

I'm pointing out Tyrod's flaws just like I did back in the Flutie days but most felt I was being a hater but the fact is I'm just being objective. As admit the idea that Tyrod can move the chains with his legs and arms is exciting and sure love to see him do it yet a QBs first responsibility is to pass the ball and thus far I am not sold Tyrod can do it enough. I hope against hope he proves me wrong but seen many QBs with better intangibles (see size) struggle so resistant to embrace Tyrod.

[BillsImpossible]

I'm pointing out Tyrod's flaws just like I did back in the Flutie days but most felt I was being a hater but the fact is I'm just being objective. As admit the idea that Tyrod can move the chains with his legs and arms is exciting and sure love to see him do it yet a QBs first responsibility is to pass the ball and thus far I am not sold Tyrod can do it enough. I hope against hope he proves me wrong but seen many QBs with better intangibles (see size) struggle so resistant to embrace Tyrod.

Your comparisons to Flutie just don't hold water today. Let go of the past. It no longer applies.

How many passes has Tryod Taylor had knocked down by a defensive lineman in the preseason?

Zero.

[better days]

I'm pointing out Tyrod's flaws just like I did back in the Flutie days but most felt I was being a hater but the fact is I'm just being objective. As admit the idea that Tyrod can move the chains with his legs and arms is exciting and sure love to see him do it yet a QBs first responsibility is to pass the ball and thus far I am not sold Tyrod can do it enough. I hope against hope he proves me wrong but seen many QBs with better intangibles (see size) struggle so resistant to embrace Tyrod.

Well, I would not be surprised to see both Cassel & Tyrod play & maybe EJ as well.

Back in the day, Jack Kemp was the starter, but if the Bills got behind, Kemp would go to the bench in favor Lamonica.

It was a very successful strategy & the Bills won games they were behind in doing that.

If Cassel is named the starter, I could see Tyrod coming in to run some read option & EJ or Tyrod taking over for Cassel if the Bills get behind in games.

[The Jokeman]

Your comparisons to Flutie just don't hold water today. Let go of the past. It no longer applies.

How many passes has Tryod Taylor had knocked down by a defensive lineman in the preseason?

Zero.


Well, I would not be surprised to see both Cassel & Tyrod play & maybe EJ as well.

Back in the day, Jack Kemp was the starter, but if the Bills got behind, Kemp would go to the bench in favor Lamonica.

It was a very successful strategy & the Bills won games they were behind in doing that.

If Cassel is named the starter, I could see Tyrod coming in to run some read option & EJ or Tyrod taking over for Cassel if the Bills get behind in games.



The comparison to Flutie are the blind faith that everyone is buying into the exciting QB who can run and pass and do everything when the reality he like Tyrod has some weaknesses in his game that have to be improved. My biggest issue with Tyrod is looking at his previous preseasons is he sturggles completing passes and seems to be penchant to throwing picks. All things that I hate from QBs. Also as mentioned Tyrod doesn't have touch inside the red zone which to me vital for this teams turn around is improved play there. Yet most of all I don't like he has zero NFL starts. Again I want to see him or Cassel win this game against the Steelers. Again be objective and talk about Tyrod's good points and bad points or is that not something our willing to do? I would have no problem sprinkling Tyrod in a Kordell Stewart type role with Cassel being a Neal O'Donnell type.

[BillsImpossible]

The comparison to Flutie are the blind faith that everyone is buying into the exciting QB who can run and pass and do everything when the reality he like Tyrod has some weaknesses in his game that have to be improved. My biggest issue with Tyrod is looking at his previous preseasons is he sturggles completing passes and seems to be penchant to throwing picks. All things that I hate from QBs. Also as mentioned Tyrod doesn't have touch inside the red zone which to me vital for this teams turn around is improved play there. Yet most of all I don't like he has zero NFL starts. Again I want to see him or Cassel win this game against the Steelers. Again be objective and talk about Tyrod's good points and bad points or is that not something our willing to do? I would have no problem sprinkling Tyrod in a Kordell Stewart type role with Cassel being a Neal O'Donnell type.

That was 20 years ago, and before the read option offense changed the NFL.

Your comparisons to Flutie, O'Donnell, and Kordell Stewart are based in the irrelevant past.

[The Jokeman]

That was 20 years ago, and before the read option offense changed the NFL.

Your comparisons to Flutie, O'Donnell, and Kordell Stewart are based in the irrelevant past.

Has it really changed the NFL? Last I checked a pocket passer named Brady lead his team to a Super Bowl in part because one of those read option guys threw a costly interception last season with the game on the line. Yet I'd say Russell Wilson is a disguised as a game manager QB as he does have an added demension in that he can run with the ball. That said Tyrod isn't close to Wilson's class as a passer today. Maybe he'll prove me wrong but his college and limited NFL numbers don't appear he ever will be.

[Buffalogic]

Even so, he outplayed Cassel.

Again with the argument of he outplayed a guy who didn't play. Wow.

[Buffalogic]

Who gives a ****? We don't have Drew Brees on the roster, so nitpicking isolated errors from the guy who CLEARLY has the most upside at the position is, at best, really ****ing idiotic.
Lol typical rocks for brains bills fan. Why does he have the most upside? Because he runs a little? Or because he hasn't thrown one td pass in 2 preseason scrub fests? Or just because you say so? Get a clue dude back off the hype train. He may be able to be a starter, nobody really knows. But to make blanket statements like he has the biggest upside based on absolutely nothing is just pathetic hoping and dreaming.

[Mr. Pink]

Who gives a ****? We don't have Drew Brees on the roster, so nitpicking isolated errors from the guy who CLEARLY has the most upside at the position is, at best, really ****ing idiotic.

Taylor's upside is about 170 yards per game passing and 60 yards per game rushing.

Dunno how many football games you think that will win but I'll let you in on something, not enough to make the playoffs.

[ICRockets]

You haven't seen Tyrod fail to complete 3 TD passes in the redzone? You haven't seen him eye his first receiver and chuck the ball down field without looking for open guys? You haven't seen him dump it off to a running back when a WR was open? You didn't see him to fail to get a first down in a 2 minute offense when he had 4 downs once they stopped him from running that eventual lead to Carolina scoring? Maybe you're not watching the games as close as I am and/or want to forget these things because it doesn't fit in your excitement of the next great QB. Who most think compares to Vick whom I feel is an inferior QB.

If those are "the biggest downside" any of our QBs have, then we have some pretty outstanding quarterbacks.

[cookie G]

Lol typical rocks for brains bills fan. Why does he have the most upside? Because he runs a little? Or because he hasn't thrown one td pass in 2 preseason scrub fests? Or just because you say so? Get a clue dude back off the hype train. He may be able to be a starter, nobody really knows. But to make blanket statements like he has the biggest upside based on absolutely nothing is just pathetic hoping and dreaming.

Actually, I'm still waiting for people wanting Cassell to come up with a legitimate reason for starting him..

one that doesn't include..."he's a vet" or "he's not EJ".

And please...no buzzwords like, "he's steady" or "he's mistake free" or stuff like that.

Those words don't mean anything. Especially to those who have actually watched him play in the past.

[sudzy]

Actually, I'm still waiting for people wanting Cassell to come up with a legitimate reason for starting him..

one that doesn't include..."he's a vet" or "he's not EJ".

And please...no buzzwords like, "he's steady" or "he's mistake free" or stuff like that.

Those words don't mean anything. Especially to those who have actually watched him play in the past.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a reason to start EJ that doesn't include "he looks good vs scrubs" and "high ceiling". JaMarcus Russell had a high ceiling

[better days]

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a reason to start EJ that doesn't include "he looks good vs scrubs" and "high ceiling". JaMarcus Russell had a high ceiling

Russell LOWERED his ceiling with the purple drank.

EJ has done nothing but work his ass off to improve & his teammates recognize that.

[The Jokeman]

If those are "the biggest downside" any of our QBs have, then we have some pretty outstanding quarterbacks.

Redzone struggles it all the difference between winning and losing in today's NFL. I mean if Wilson doesn't turn the ball over and completes a pass in the red zone the Seahawks are the defending Super Bowl champs not the Patriots. As we saw with the Bryce Brown fumble last year against KC, if he makes that play we win or vice versa if Watkins doesn't catch the TD against the Vikings we lose.

[ICRockets]

Redzone struggles it all the difference between winning and losing in today's NFL. I mean if Wilson doesn't turn the ball over and completes a pass in the red zone the Seahawks are the defending Super Bowl champs not the Patriots. As we saw with the Bryce Brown fumble last year against KC, if he makes that play we win or vice versa if Watkins doesn't catch the TD against the Vikings we lose.

But that's not a "big downside" by any definition of the word. We're talking about 1 play swinging games. A "big downside" is something that prevents us from being in the position to win a game with one play, or 2 plays, or any reasonable number of plays. "big downsides" mean the QB in question will keep us from accomplishing what we want to accomplish on a consistent basis. I'm simply not seeing it from Tyrod.

[The Jokeman]

But that's not a "big downside" by any definition of the word. We're talking about 1 play swinging games. A "big downside" is something that prevents us from being in the position to win a game with one play, or 2 plays, or any reasonable number of plays. "big downsides" mean the QB in question will keep us from accomplishing what we want to accomplish on a consistent basis. I'm simply not seeing it from Tyrod.

Not scoring TDs isn't a "big downside"? It is if looking at the grand scheme of things and this is where some fans are short sighted. No offense.

[cookie G]

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a reason to start EJ that doesn't include "he looks good vs scrubs" and "high ceiling". JaMarcus Russell had a high ceiling

Still can't come up with anything, can you?

So I'll help

Cassel stats:

Last 30 games- 4 years (after being in the league 6 years)

191 yd./game
below 60% comp. percentage
30 tds, 34 ints
13 fumbles
INT % 3.9
W-L

Manuel

14 games

200 yd/game
58.6% comp. percentage
16 tds, 12 ints
7 fumbles
INT % 2.7
W-L 6-8

So according to you...we KNOW what EJ Manuel can do after 14 games...but we need to wait and see whether an 11 year veteran can....

...become better than EJ Manuel?

Because he hasn't been...and in many ways has been worse.

Now one more time...got a good reason for starting him?

Same rules as before...no making up dumb **** by saying things like "he's steady, he makes less mistakes, etc."

[The Jokeman]

Still can't come up with anything, can you?


So who are you siding with on the QB debate?

[ICRockets]

Not scoring TDs isn't a "big downside"? It is if looking at the grand scheme of things and this is where some fans are short sighted. No offense.

No, it isn't a big downside. It's something all 32 teams deal with. A big downside is a QB who is wildly inaccurate, takes frequent sacks due to lack of mobility and/or pocket awareness or because he refuses to throw the ball away, or is prone to turnovers, or just can't seem to make the right read.

We've seen Tyrod be accurate, we've seen his mobility and his ability to evade sacks, he has yet to produce a turnover, and he's made the right reads more often than not.

Am I saying he's definitely the next coming of Russell Wilson? No. But I'm saying that through 2 games there are no glaring red flags. Pretending like his failure to play PERFECTLY is one makes you sound incredibly ****ing stupid.

[jimmifli]

Taylor's upside is about 170 yards per game passing and 60 yards per game rushing.

Dunno how many football games you think that will win but I'll let you in on something, not enough to make the playoffs.

Last season the Bills have averaged 14.9 yards per point. That means if the only yards we get in a game are attributed to Taylor and they meet your estimate, we would average 15.4 points per game. Last season the Bills defense gave up an average of 18.1 points. For us to have an even points differential our RBs would need to gain an additional 40 yards. If they gained an additional 100 yards our predicted points differential would be the 7th best in the NFL. That doesn't seem like a huge hurdle for Greg Roman to clear.

If Taylor averaged 170 yards passing and 60 yards rushing, we make the playoffs with this defense (assuming this defense is as good as last season's defense).

[djjimkelly]

So who are you siding with on the QB debate?

i thinks hes siding with the buffalo bills

[cookie G]

So who are you siding with on the QB debate?

There was as poll in another thread, I voted in that.

I'm not married to a QB..especially with this group.

[SpikedLemonade]

I just want one of the QBs to approach average play on a consistent basis.

I don't care which of the 3 it is.

[The Jokeman]

There was as poll in another thread, I voted in that.

I'm not married to a QB..especially with this group.

After the Flutie vs RJ debates from years ago I have learned that marriage is a bad thing. That said I still play favorites. My head listing is Cassel/EJ/Tyrod but that could all change depending what they do against the Steelers. Yet my heart listing is EJ/Cassel/Tyrod.

[ICRockets]

After the Flutie vs RJ debates from years ago I have learned that marriage is a bad thing. That said I still play favorites. My head listing is Cassel/EJ/Tyrod but that could all change depending what they do against the Steelers. Yet my heart listing is EJ/Cassel/Tyrod.

If Tyrod is behind Cassel for you, you're a complete ****ing idiot.

[The Jokeman]

If Tyrod is behind Cassel for you, you're a complete ****ing idiot.

Sorry I don't like the idea of giving the keys to a Mercedes to a 16 year old who just earned his license unless proves he can drive on the freeway he can step up against the Steelers and shows he knows how to parallel park (see produce in the red zone). I'm willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong but right now I'm on the fence (as my gut tells me it's 50/50 Cassel/Tyrod) and rather be safe than sorry.

[ICRockets]

Sorry I don't like the idea of giving the keys to a Mercedes to a 16 year old who just earned his license unless proves he can drive on the freeway he can step up against the Steelers and shows he knows how to parallel park (see produce in the red zone). I'm willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong but right now I'm on the fence (as my gut tells me it's 50/50 Cassel/Tyrod) and rather be safe than sorry.

But Tyrod Taylor has yet to show you ANYTHING to indicate he has a weakness that EJ and Cassel don't also have. There is absolutely no reason anybody should have him 3rd on their depth chart after 2 games.

[The Jokeman]

But Tyrod Taylor has yet to show you ANYTHING to indicate he has a weakness that EJ and Cassel don't also have. There is absolutely no reason anybody should have him 3rd on their depth chart after 2 games.

I've highlighted several of the weaknesses I see in Tyrod's game. They are small things that I guess some fans don't see or don't see them as big as a problem. This is where we disagree. Yet in watching this team the last few years I start to understand that little things are vital in turning the corner. Case in point the red zone thing I brought up earlier. We've been one of the worst red zone offenses the last two years. Also his failed two minute drive against Carolia was eye opening. It's just little things that I feel most casual fans might not pick up on and I could write more and more and more on it ut feel it's be a wasted effort. So we'll agree to disagree on how we see things. I hope Tyrd proves me wrong because if he does it means he's playing better which is ultimately what I want.

[ICRockets]

I've highlighted several of the weaknesses I see in Tyrod's game. They are small things that I guess some fans don't see or don't see them as big as a problem. This is where we disagree. Yet in watching this team the last few years I start to understand that little things are vital in turning the corner. Case in point the red zone thing I brought up earlier. We've been one of the worst red zone offenses the last two years. Also his failed two minute drive against Carolia was eye opening. It's just little things that I feel most casual fans might not pick up on and I could write more and more and more on it ut feel it's be a wasted effort. So we'll agree to disagree on how we see things. I hope Tyrd proves me wrong because if he does it means he's playing better which is ultimately what I want.

So now we've gone from "Tyrod has some big downsides" to "It's the little things" but you refuse to acquiesce? Come on, man. You're using completely polar opposite arguments to try to get across the same thing. That has to make you recognize what a buffoon you are. It just has to.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Stop with the name calling... Act like you're face to face and don't want to get punched in the nose.

[The Jokeman]

So now we've gone from "Tyrod has some big downsides" to "It's the little things" but you refuse to acquiesce? Come on, man. You're using completely polar opposite arguments to try to get across the same thing. That has to make you recognize what a buffoon you are. It just has to.

In the course of a game those little things add up to big downsides that can cause you to W/L.

[The Jokeman]

Stop with the name calling... Act like you're face to face and don't want to get punched in the nose.

Mocking me he thinks he's going to break me or show me up. I've been through it before back in the Flutie days. Instead of making it about the player they want to make it personal as they have nothing else to fight with.

[ICRockets]

Mocking me he thinks he's going to break me or show me up. I've been through it before back in the Flutie days. Instead of making it about the player they want to make it personal as they have nothing else to fight with.

Well, since you're wrong, yes. That's the point. It's pretty sad that you're not willing to be broken.

[The Jokeman]

Well, since you're wrong, yes. That's the point. It's pretty sad that you're not willing to be broken.

I'm just evaluating what I see and what I've seen so far is Tyrod's arm has yet to show me he is an NFL starter. As thus far he his arm hasn't earned us a TD in two preseason games to date. He has 0 NFL starts to his name, wasn't a great college QB and a former 6th Round draft pick who I'd bet prior to us signing him 95% of Bills fans had no idea who he was. I'll buy into Tyrod when he proves me wrong. He can prove me wrong against the Steelers if he can lead us on two drives in which he gets at least two first downs on both, tosses for a TD in one of them and has less than 3 rushing attempts in those drives. Fair enough?

[ublinkwescore]

Mocking me he thinks he's going to break me or show me up. I've been through it before back in the Flutie days. Instead of making it about the player they want to make it personal as they have nothing else to fight with.

have nothing else to fight with... you are the one arguing in an uphill battle - not because the majority are against you, but because Tyrod's results far outweigh the results of any of the other qbs... you are arguing with emotion not logic or fact.

Yes, I fully acknowledge that EJ is the ONLY qb to have thrown tds in an actual preseason game.

How ever, EJ has made far more mistakes (with future used car salesmen currently donning NFL uniforms) than Tyrod or Cassel this preseason - yet you still choose to dwell on the one sack that Taylor took, or the fact that he had a dropped TD pass or two that would have likely been pulled in if it were Woods or Watkins going after it.

Cassel has my vote of no confidence because he will allow defenses to dictate to us - they will stack the line because they will not fear the air attack. and why should they - Cassel has thrown more picks than TDs in his career. teams will go bend don't break against us and eventually pressure Cassel into an errant pass every other drive.

there is ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY ANY LOGICAL PERSON can deny that at the very least, Taylor has to be the CLEAR frontrunner. And seeing as how Taylor is Rex's dog in this fight, get ready to be eating some crow since you mr. Jokeman have placed him as the third string qb in your own depth chart.

[Mace]

Still can't come up with anything, can you?

So I'll help

Cassel stats:

Last 30 games- 4 years (after being in the league 6 years)

191 yd./game
below 60% comp. percentage
30 tds, 34 ints
13 fumbles
INT % 3.9
W-L

Manuel

14 games

200 yd/game
58.6% comp. percentage
16 tds, 12 ints
7 fumbles
INT % 2.7
W-L 6-8

So according to you...we KNOW what EJ Manuel can do after 14 games...but we need to wait and see whether an 11 year veteran can....

...become better than EJ Manuel?

Because he hasn't been...and in many ways has been worse.

Now one more time...got a good reason for starting him?

Same rules as before...no making up dumb **** by saying things like "he's steady, he makes less mistakes, etc."

Well...Cassel's most efficient and best work were in ball control/game manager Weis offenses, I think in Roman we're pretty much looking at ball control/game manager QB type most often.

Flip side of that though is that I don't know Taylor has ever been asked to do it, and offers some options beyond it, and Manuel has done it relatively well for periods in uncertain offenses, and also offers some options.

I think the thing that interests me most about Taylor at this point, is that your typical "athlete" QB either has no accuracy, or no discipline to stay in the pocket whatever, or has no refined sense of decisive, or just can't grasp reading a defense. Maybe it's me but I haven't noticed a glaring deficiency yet in his game and he's bring a certain sense of dynamic every play (you aren't so sure how the play will develop).

Good reasons for starting anyone though are all variations of "maybe" or "probably" to me at this point.

[The Jokeman]

have nothing else to fight with... you are the one arguing in an uphill battle - not because the majority are against you, but because Tyrod's results far outweigh the results of any of the other qbs... you are arguing with emotion not logic or fact.

Yes, I fully acknowledge that EJ is the ONLY qb to have thrown tds in an actual preseason game.

How ever, EJ has made far more mistakes (with future used car salesmen currently donning NFL uniforms) than Tyrod or Cassel this preseason - yet you still choose to dwell on the one sack that Taylor took, or the fact that he had a dropped TD pass or two that would have likely been pulled in if it were Woods or Watkins going after it.

Cassel has my vote of no confidence because he will allow defenses to dictate to us - they will stack the line because they will not fear the air attack. and why should they - Cassel has thrown more picks than TDs in his career. teams will go bend don't break against us and eventually pressure Cassel into an errant pass every other drive.

there is ABSOLUTELY NO FREAKING WAY ANY LOGICAL PERSON can deny that at the very least, Taylor has to be the CLEAR frontrunner. And seeing as how Taylor is Rex's dog in this fight, get ready to be eating some crow since you mr. Jokeman have placed him as the third string qb in your own depth chart.

You're not understanding what I am getting at. I want EJ to win but my logic tells me Cassel will win it. My concerns with Tyrod are if you take away his running ability you cripple him emensly. His TD drives against Carolina were fueled by his ability to run, a questionable penalty by Carolina, a great run after catch by Goodwin and a run by Bryce Brown. His great drive against Cleveland ended with a sack which played a part in making Carpenter's FG longer/harder. The following series we punted. His FG drive was a result of an INT by Darby Also why is nobody acknowledging Cleveland was missing it's starting Pro Bowl CB and starting Pro Bowl FS when Tyrod was in there?. Look at his track record it's not great. He's inexperience worries me more then anything. Going into his draft year he was thought to be a 4th round prospect but fell to Round 6. Red flags people, red flags.

[Night Train]

I spent all Sunday just d i c k i n g around, instead of doing work. No one could tell me different.

Go Rex.

[swiper]

If Tyrod is behind Cassel for you, you're a complete ****ing idiot.

No he'd be spot on. If you think tierod is ahead of Cassel you would be a fat idiot. Oh. Wait a minute. Snap.

[swiper]

Well, since you're wrong, yes. That's the point. It's pretty sad that you're not willing to be broken.


He's not willing to be broken, like you're unwilling to go on a diet. Why don't you just leave him alone.

[ublinkwescore]

You're not understanding what I am getting at. I want EJ to win but my logic tells me Cassel will win it. My concerns with Tyrod are if you take away his running ability you cripple him emensly. His TD drives against Carolina were fueled by his ability to run, a questionable penalty by Carolina, a great run after catch by Goodwin and a run by Bryce Brown. His great drive against Cleveland ended with a sack which played a part in making Carpenter's FG longer/harder. The following series we punted. His FG drive was a result of an INT by Darby Also why is nobody acknowledging Cleveland was missing it's starting Pro Bowl CB and starting Pro Bowl FS when Tyrod was in there?. Look at his track record it's not great. He's inexperience worries me more then anything. Going into his draft year he was thought to be a 4th round prospect but fell to Round 6. Red flags people, red flags.

they had Donte s h i t ner - he's a probowl safety - just saying...

[ublinkwescore]

You're not understanding what I am getting at. I want EJ to win but my logic tells me Cassel will win it. My concerns with Tyrod are if you take away his running ability you cripple him emensly. His TD drives against Carolina were fueled by his ability to run, a questionable penalty by Carolina, a great run after catch by Goodwin and a run by Bryce Brown. His great drive against Cleveland ended with a sack which played a part in making Carpenter's FG longer/harder. The following series we punted. His FG drive was a result of an INT by Darby Also why is nobody acknowledging Cleveland was missing it's starting Pro Bowl CB and starting Pro Bowl FS when Tyrod was in there?. Look at his track record it's not great. He's inexperience worries me more then anything. Going into his draft year he was thought to be a 4th round prospect but fell to Round 6. Red flags people, red flags.

And all of his baltimore team mates were calling him the steal of the draft... there will always be criticism and praise to extremes on just about every player at every position.

[The Jokeman]

they had Donte s h i t ner - he's a probowl safety - just saying...
Just by calling him that name reveals just how good he us and last I checked most SS aren't responsible for coverage.

[ublinkwescore]

LMAO!!!! Donte Whitner iz gewd!!!:fishing:

[ublinkwescore]

BUMP!!!!

[The Jokeman]

Tyrod did what I asked him to do today. I don't mind him being named the starter. That say EJ has been great today too. It's actually refreshing see it.

[ublinkwescore]

Damn, I was kinda hoping you weren't going to say that. I was looking forward to having to bash you yet again.

[The Jokeman]

Damn, I was kinda hoping you weren't going to say that. I was looking forward to having to bash you yet again.

I laid out what I wanted from Tyrod and he did it. I'll forgive him for the rushing TD though since it was only his second rushing attempt. ;)