Saturday morning's practice... interesting comments about QB's

[JoeMama]

Top 3 things you need to know from Day 15 at Bills Camp

Saturday’s practice was one of the best of the camp in terms of quarterback play, with Tyrod Taylor and EJ Manuel looking especially sharp. All three QBs, including Matt Cassel, got time with the first team on a regular rotation.

In the first team session, Taylor threw a beautiful deep sideline pass to Marcus Easley who got past the coverage and ran into the end zone for a touchdown.

In seven-on-seven work, Manuel threw a strike over the middle to tight end Charles Clay. And Taylor connected with Marquise Goodwin on a high pass that Goodwin brought down for a reception.

When they got into red zone seven-on-seven work, Manuel lofted a high pass to Tight End MarQueis Gary for a four yard touchdown. And in the final team session, it was Taylor hooking up with Goodwin again for a deep pass down the middle.

After practice, Rex Ryan re-stated what he told BuffaloBills.com on “Coffee with the Coach” four days ago. He says there’s a high possibility he’ll keep all three quarterbacks on the roster when the final cut downs are made in two weeks.

“Well, all three of them are playing really well. So we’ve said from day one that we’d keep our best 53 in our opinion and regardless of the position. But clearly there you have three good quarterbacks so that’s a high, high possibility.”

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Top-3-things-you-need-to-know-from-Day-15-at-Bills-Camp/392bc44d-239a-41f8-8b14-32a5828e93c2?campaign=fb2_buf_article

I know it's wildly unpopular but I'd love to keep Cassel, Taylor, and YES-- even Manuel -- if he continues improving the way he has in recent weeks.

Very encouraging.

At this point I still think EJ > Simms, even if EJ has obnoxious fans.

I want the best possible players, regardless of how obnoxious their fans are.

[Famous Amos]

Nothing was said about Cassel today?

[djjimkelly]

and EJ rolling with the ones uh oh lol

[Bill Cody]

At this point I still think EJ > Simms, even if EJ has obnoxious fans.

I want the best possible players, regardless of how obnoxious their fans are.

and who might those folks be? At most you have a group of posters who have kept an open mind that EJ might improve. That doesn't seem nearly as obnoxious to me as a much larger group that dumps on EJ every chance they get. That's not only obnoxious it's illogical. Every Bills fan should be an EJ fan because a) he's a part of our team and b) because if he does well he could either help us win games or get us a return in a trade. The folks that can't go a day without bashing him have an obnoxious agenda, being shown to be right. I see people like that every day and they're almost always annoying SOB's with inflated opinion's of themselves. That's my take.

[JoeMama]

Nothing was said about Cassel today?

They didn't mention much about him other than he split some time with the ones.

[JoeMama]

and who might those folks be? At most you have a group of posters who have kept an open mind that EJ might improve. That doesn't seem nearly as obnoxious to me as a much larger group that dumps on EJ every chance they get. That's not only obnoxious it's illogical. Every Bills fan should be an EJ fan because a) he's a part of our team and b) because if he does well he could either help us win games or get us a return in a trade. The folks that can't go a day without bashing him have an obnoxious agenda, being shown to be right. I see people like that every day and they're almost always annoying SOB's with inflated opinion's of themselves. That's my take.

You should get a PR job.

That's one hell of a spin job for some of EJ's uglier fans who are willing to trash anyone and anything who don't proclaim EJ the greatest thing on God's green earth.

They know who they are.

I'm not going to single them out and throw them under the bus since I'm trying to keep it positive here.

Like I said, I want the best 3 QB's on our roster come September and I think EJ is making a fine case to make it.

I'm not here to air out the dirty laundry. Just celebrate some positives.

[Night Train]

Joe B said they were not in pads today and going at 3/4 speed to work on execution of plays.

[Novacane]

Keep the best 3. EJ is one of the best three.

I wouldn't say EJ groupies are obnoxious. They are annoying. They refuse to see that the coach's obviously don't see EJ as the starter. They seem to be EJ fans first. Bills fans second.

[JoeMama]

Keep the best 3. EJ is one of the best three.

I wouldn't say EJ groupies are obnoxious. They are annoying. They refuse to see that the coach's obviously don't see EJ as the starter. They seem to be EJ fans first. Bills fans second.

They remind me of Drew Bledsoe fans from the range.

And once he left for Dallas, they all left the range. And I was like HALLELUJAH! Good riddance to those non-Bills fans.

We definitely have a contingent of EJ or nobody fans on this site.

See how badly they trashed Orton last year even though Orton outplayed EJ by a mile.

No objectivity. No football IQ. No credibility.

And that's coming from a guy who actually thinks EJ is a good kid and wants to see him succeed.

But damn, his fans are a detriment to his popularity around here. They're just such myopic homers with zero objectivity.

[Novacane]

EJ seems like a really good kid. I like him too and want him to succeed. He's not a worthless POS like some here say. I think he'll have a long career as a backup and maybe even an average starter that has just enough success to make another team think they can win with him. I bet he kicks around the league like Fitz for a long time. I don't think he'll ever be the guy to carry a team though.

We've always had a group that goes all in with a QB and refuses to give up. Flutie, Johnson, Bledsoe, Losman, Edwards. They all had their little group that was all in. Hell, they even continued after those guys were long gone.

[JoeMama]

and who might those folks be? At most you have a group of posters who have kept an open mind that EJ might improve. That doesn't seem nearly as obnoxious to me as a much larger group that dumps on EJ every chance they get. That's not only obnoxious it's illogical. Every Bills fan should be an EJ fan because a) he's a part of our team and b) because if he does well he could either help us win games or get us a return in a trade. The folks that can't go a day without bashing him have an obnoxious agenda, being shown to be right. I see people like that every day and they're almost always annoying SOB's with inflated opinion's of themselves. That's my take.

I said I wasn't gonna name names but **** it.

djjimkelly, Yasgur's Farm, better days, notacon (formerly), and Dr. Who

Just to name a few.

And there's plenty more where that came from. I can't name them all off the top of my head as though I have a working excel spreadsheet on these guys.

[WagonCircler]

The Buffalo Bills third string Quarterback is about as relevant as the business agent for Jared from Subway.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I said I wasn't gonna name names but **** it.

djjimkelly, Yasgur's Farm, better days, notacon (formerly), and Dr. Who

Just to name a few.

And there's plenty more where that came from. I can't name them all off the top of my head as though I have a working excel spreadsheet on these guys.Now that you've named us, how about a few quotes to back up your claim... I'd be especially interested in mine.

[JoeMama]

Now that you've named us, how about a few quotes to back up your claim... I'd be especially interested in mine.

You alone have over 96 pages of posts pimping EJ Manuel... and you're gonna sit here and deny you're an EJ homer?

Are you trying to make us laugh or just insult our intelligence?

I'm not wasting the rest of my Saturday posting hundreds of posts for your convenience.

You know what you are and so do the rest of us.

So please, cut it with the denial.

You're like an alcoholic with 10 DUI's who's like, "I don't have a drinking problem!"

I don't enjoy when boneheads ask me to waste my time when you know as well as I do you're an EJ homer.

So save it for someone who cares about your lame attempt at plausible deniability.

[Goobylal]

To do anything other than keep 3 QB's would be idiotic. Cassel hasn't been able to stay healthy (3 out of) the past 4 years and Taylor is a complete unknown WRT durability. And EJ is far more talented than Simms.

[Yasgur's Farm]

You alone have over 96 pages of posts pimping EJ Manuel... and you're gonna sit here and deny you're an EJ homer?

Are you trying to make us laugh or just insult our intelligence?

I'm not wasting the rest of my Saturday posting hundreds of posts for your convenience.

You know what you are and so do the rest of us.

So please, cut it with the denial.

You're like an alcoholic with 10 DUI's who's like, "I don't have a drinking problem!"

I don't enjoy when boneheads ask me to waste my time when you know as well as I do you're an EJ homer.

So save it for someone who cares about your lame attempt at plausible deniability.I never denied wanting EJ to win the job of starting QB for my 1 and only team... That wasn't your claim... Shall I remind you?

That's one hell of a spin job for some of EJ's uglier fans who are willing to trash anyone and anything who don't proclaim EJ the greatest thing on God's green earth.

They know who they are. No moving targets please.

[Yasgur's Farm]

In fact, I've stated a few times that I want to keep both EJ and TT and dump Cassel's $4.5M. I just so happen to think that EJ has performed better that TT and I've backed it up with stats.

[sudzy]

The Buffalo Bills third string Quarterback is about as relevant as the business agent for Jared from Subway.

The why waste 1st team reps on him. They are suppose to be getting ready for the season. You can't get 3 QBs ready to start. Pick one and move forward.

[sudzy]

In fact, I've stated a few times that I want to keep both EJ and TT and dump Cassel's $4.5M. I just so happen to think that EJ has performed better that TT and I've backed it up with stats.

Yes Ej has great stats vs everyone's third stringers.

[JoeMama]

I never denied wanting EJ to win the job of starting QB for my 1 and only team... That wasn't your claim... Shall I remind you?
No moving targets please.

Enjoy.

Kyle Orton was ranked 25th in the NFL in 2014... How is that "certainly above average"?

I replied to this claim asking you where you cooked up this 25th figure, but you never responded.

I'm willing to bet the figure is skewed because he only started 12 games.

Orton's TD/INT ratio, total yardage, and win/loss record in 12 games were all superior to anything EJ has done in 2 seasons, you won't even admit Orton was in fact above average last year.

That just goes to show your lousy football IQ. And/or state of denial you're willfully living in.

BTW your opinions on Orton are what's called trashing another player to make your love of EJ feel more valid.

Sorry homeboy but you're an EJ first, a team second guy.

And I for one definitely do not take you seriously.

If EJ ever gets cut (and I prefer he doesn't and succeeds someday), I hope you follow him to his next team where another fan base can deal with your annoying and myopic hyperbole.

Because it ****ing sucks reading your garbage.

[JoeMama]

In fact, I've stated a few times that I want to keep both EJ and TT and dump Cassel's $4.5M. I just so happen to think that EJ has performed better that TT and I've backed it up with stats.

:facepalm:

Yeah you posted his QBR against third stringers.

What an amazing stat to hang your hat on.

Let's start him now since he's proven he can beat guys who won't be playing in the NFL in three weeks.

Makes sense!

Yasgur's Farm logic at it's ****ing finest.

Our own resident Einstein.

[JoeMama]

Cool, more people who are EJ fans rather than Bills fans.

What a profoundly stupid group of posters.

djjimkelly (Today),Fixxxer (Today),Meathead (Today),SpikedLemonade (Today),tomz (Today),Yasgur's Farm (Today)

[The Jokeman]

Keep the best 3. EJ is one of the best three.

I wouldn't say EJ groupies are obnoxious. They are annoying. They refuse to see that the coach's obviously don't see EJ as the starter. They seem to be EJ fans first. Bills fans second.

As one of the EJ supporters I disagree with those comments. That said I think I'm more level headed than some of my brethren.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Again... You claimed that I was included in the bunch...
who are willing to trash anyone and anything who don't proclaim EJ the greatest thing on God's green earth. I wasn't aware that my backing EJ put me in that category. There's not 1 quote you'll be able to find where I am trashing anybody... Unless you consider expressing my opinion on the topic is trashing people. If you can't back-up your claim, please stop trying... Stop trying to spin it into something else.

[JoeMama]

As one of the EJ supporters I disagree with those comments. That said I think I'm more level headed than some of my brethren.

You are actually. I give you that.

You posted something interesting about it either this morning or yesterday afternoon. I liked it.

[Yasgur's Farm]

:facepalm:

Yeah you posted his QBR against third stringers.

What an amazing stat to hang your hat on.

Let's start him now since he's proven he can beat guys who won't be playing in the NFL in three weeks.

Makes sense!

Yasgur's Farm logic at it's ****ing finest.

Our own resident Einstein.You do actually realize that you're doing what you claimed I do... Don't you?

[sudzy]

As one of the EJ supporters I disagree with those comments. That said I think I'm more level headed than some of my brethren.

He said Keep the best 3 and EJ is one of the best 3. And you disagree with those comments? Glad to see your finally coming around.

[Fixxxer]

Cool, more people who are EJ fans rather than Bills fans.

What a profoundly stupid group of posters.

djjimkelly (Today),Fixxxer (Today),Meathead (Today),SpikedLemonade (Today),tomz (Today),Yasgur's Farm (Today)

get outside and get some air. :cheers:

[JoeMama]

You do actually realize that you're doing what you claimed I do... Don't you?

No, I'm not.

I'm a realist.

I don't think starting vs the 1st team, the 2nd team, and the 3rd string are all equivalents.

I put more weight in the first string, then the second, then the third.

No wonder you're an EJ apologist.

Reading comprehension and logic eludes you terribly.

And BTW I already lobbied for EJ to start next week.

Boy what a hater I am!

[Yasgur's Farm]

Goodnight Joe... Enjoy poster bashing without me.

[JoeMama]

get outside and get some air. :cheers:

There is no getting "outside and getting some fresh air" in Florida.

Just wet heat, gnats, and too many god damn storms.

Thanks, I'll enjoy my afternoon quietly in the house today.

Funny thing is, I agree with all you EJ homers that he needs a fair shake and have already stated I want him to start next week.

But you're all so far off the deep end you even take that as an insult because I won't anoint him our lord and savior QB yet.

[The Jokeman]

He said Keep the best 3 and EJ is one of the best 3. And you disagree with those comments? Glad to see your finally coming around.

I was disagreeing with the comments about EJ supporters.

[JoeMama]

Goodnight Joe... Enjoy poster bashing without me.

Goodnight indeed (and I hope you sleep long enough to avoid Rex's presser where he announces his starter since you may wind up on suicide watch if it's not EJ).

I want EJ to make this squad as much as you.

I'm just not willing to trash guys like Orton, Cassel, or Taylor to weakly justify my love for EJ.

Oh the humanity!

We're not far apart.

I just don't think EJ is the savior like you do.

God, what a horrible sin!

[djjimkelly]

I said I wasn't gonna name names but **** it.

djjimkelly, Yasgur's Farm, better days, notacon (formerly), and Dr. Who

Just to name a few.

And there's plenty more where that came from. I can't name them all off the top of my head as though I have a working excel spreadsheet on these guys.

look last year ej was the better option this year maybe the other 2 are better then EJ. i dont know neiter does anyone tyrod is intriguing at least orton was horrific

and its not blind faith i just like to go with the talent

tyrod may have something to him let that run its course if it has too

[JoeMama]

look last year ej was the better option this year maybe the other 2 are better then EJ. i dont know neiter does anyone tyrod is intriguing at least orton was horrific

and its not blind faith i just like to go with the talent

tyrod may have something to him let that run its course if it has too

Bull****. Only someone with a zero football IQ would say that.

Orton:
64.2% comp rate
3018 yards
18 TDs
10 INTS
QB 87.8
7-5 record

Maneuel:
58.0% comp rate
838 yards
5 TDs
3 INTs
QBR 80.3
2-2 record

Sorry, not close.

Give it up already. This isn't a legitimate argument.

Orton was better.

Just suck up your vain pride and let it go. The facts are 100% against you.

[djjimkelly]

Bull****. Only someone with a zero football IQ would say that.

Orton:
64.2% comp rate
3018 yards
18 TDs
10 INTS
QB 87.8
7-5 record

Maneuel:
58.0% comp rate
838 yards
5 TDs
3 INTs
QBR 80.3
2-2 record

Sorry, not close.

Give it up already. This isn't a legitimate argument.

Orton was better.

Just suck up your vain pride and let it go. The facts are 100% against you.

oh my. so getting your 2nd year pro playing time in a non playoff season has anything to do with my pride lol

im sure whaley and rex would love 12 more gameflims of EJ

yes maybe EJ is the 3 qb right now i dont know but last year from this franchises perspective he was the better option i cant believe some cant see that

and i think all 3 start this year at some point with cassel having the least starts

[YardRat]

I don't think there's anybody that is supporting EJ to the extent that some in the past supported other QB's...not nearly as rabid, IMO.

[JoeMama]

oh my. so getting your 2nd year pro playing time in a non playoff season has anything to do with my pride lol

im sure whaley and rex would love 12 more gameflims of EJ

yes maybe EJ is the 3 qb right now i dont know but last year from this franchises perspective he was the better option i cant believe some cant see that

and i think all 3 start this year at some point with cassel having the least starts

Because our D was lights out.

We needed a steadier QB than EJ to keep us in games.

And we got that guy in Orton.

There was no reason to throw in the towel last season just for the sake of EJ's development when we had Orton and a killer D sitting right there.

We had enough talent where we didn't need to just give up the entire season for the sake of EJ. At all.

And like I said for the hundredth time, I do think EJ should make the team (barring some horrible meltdown in the next two weeks), but there's simply no way EJ deserved to start over Orton beyond the Texans game.

None.

[JoeMama]

I don't think there's anybody that is supporting EJ to the extent that some in the past supported other QB's...not nearly as rabid, IMO.

It's a smaller but louder contingency in my opinion.

EJ is on track to win a roster spot, so I don't see why these clowns can't just be happy he'll be around another year and maybe -- MAYBE -- even start at some point.

It's like if you don't anoint EJ the savior of all mankind, like some kind of football deity, you're an EJ hater.

That ain't the case.

His fans aren't as bad as some other QB fans, but they're not too far behind either.

[Fixxxer]

There is no getting "outside and getting some fresh air" in Florida.

Just wet heat, gnats, and too many god damn storms.

Thanks, I'll enjoy my afternoon quietly in the house today.

Funny thing is, I agree with all you EJ homers that he needs a fair shake and have already stated I want him to start next week.

But you're all so far off the deep end you even take that as an insult because I won't anoint him our lord and savior QB yet.

This is what the stupid homer had to say after the Browns game on another board.


Taylor had a solid night, he converted three 3rd downs with his arm and they weren't the short type. He took a bad sack and took a bad hit on read option play. He needs to avoid those kind of hits.
The only thing that worries me about Taylor is his inexperience but if he keeps playing with confidence he can be dangerous.

I believe Taylor has made his case to start for this team, he stepped up against the Browns, big time. Many doubted him, many thought he was not going to be able to stand in the pocket and deliver an accurate pass. More impressive was that he was throwing to the 2nd string WRs.

Now, regarding Manuel, he has made great strides this year compared to last year, he looks like a QB this year, stepping into his throws and throwing decisively to his targets. He did it against 2nd and 3rd stringers, granted, but he was playing with those of our own too.
I hated his fumble and his pass to Conner, other than that he had a fine night, one that could open the other to be the starter against the Steelers. If I'm the coach, I put Manuel behind the starting OL and see what happens.


Please see if you can change the way you're posting lately, to much antogonizing for my taste (one of the reasons I left the Range for good and I rarely post here). I

Peace out

[JoeMama]

This is what the stupid homer had to say after the Browns game on another board.



I believe Taylor has made his case to start for this team, he stepped up against the Browns, big time. Many doubted him, many thought he was not going to be able to stand in the pocket and deliver an accurate pass. More impressive was that he was throwing to the 2nd string WRs.

Now, regarding Manuel, he has made great strides this year compared to last year, he looks like a QB this year, stepping into his throws and throwing decisively to his targets. He did it against 2nd and 3rd stringers, granted, but he was playing with those of our own too.
I hated his fumble and his pass to Conner, other than that he had a fine night, one that could open the other to be the starter against the Steelers. If I'm the coach, I put Manuel behind the starting OL and see what happens.


Please see if you can change the way you're posting lately, to much antogonizing for my taste (one of the reasons I left the Range for good and I rarely post here). I

Peace out

Eh, you're just still holding a grudge that I don't like those crappy 90's Metallica albums you love so much. Load and ReLoad.

[MillsapsBillsFan]

I do think EJ should get the chance to start a preseason game, but I'm not sure the coaching staff agrees with me. I don't think theres any doubt that EJ has played his way onto the roster 100%. I like EJ I really do and I want him to start, I don't think I'm one of the EJ lovers mentioned here though.

Im thinking that the coaching staff is going to start either Tyrod or Cassel. I'm conflicted between the two. Tyrod gives us a little bit of a running threat but I still am very afraid that will be game planned out by other teams, the preaseason is when scrambling QB's tend to look the best because everyone is playing vanilla. Cassel gives us a little bit more of a passing threat, but he's not going to carry a team and teams know exactly what he's going to do. Plus he doesn't have the mobility threat that roman seems to like.

I think that the coaching staff will give EJ one more season to sit and learn the things that he never learned when he first got into the league (reading defenses, quicker decision making). Though its possible that he might get a shot later this season due to the seeming lack of durability cassel has and the completely unknown durability of Tyrod. Thats why its important for him to be prepared as well

[justasportsfan]

oh my. so getting your 2nd year pro playing time in a non playoff season has anything to do with my pride lol

im sure whaley and rex would love 12 more gameflims of EJ

yes maybe EJ is the 3 qb right now i dont know but last year from this franchises perspective he was the better option i cant believe some cant see that

and i think all 3 start this year at some point with cassel having the least starts

No way he was a better option the way Marrone had him playing scared. Even if we take away our own opinions, Watkins pretty much made it clear that Orton was better .

Now EJ seems to be doing better by not playing scared under Rexy. I hope he keeps getting better but he looked like Trentative and Robosack last year.

[Fixxxer]

No way he was a better option the way Marrone had him playing scared. Even if we take away our own opinions, Watkins pretty much made it clear that Orton was better .

Now EJ seems to be doing better by not playing scared under Rexy. I hope he keeps getting better but he looked like Trentative and Robosack last year.

Best thing that could have happened to Manuel was to get benched. Watching Orton play or lead an offense, interact with coaches in meetings and/or see him in studying film is what Manuel needed from the see to get better. Unfortunately this should have been the plan from the get go.

[justasportsfan]

Best thing that could have happened to Manuel was to get benched. Watching Orton play or lead an offense, interact with coaches in meetings and/or see him in studying film is what Manuel needed from the see to get better. Unfortunately this should have been the plan from the get go.

They best thing for EJ was Marrone leaving. If Marrone was still here EJ would have been still playing like a wuss even after watching Orton

[Fixxxer]

They best thing for EJ was Marrone leaving. If Marrone was still here EJ would have been still playing like a wuss even after watching Orton

Yes, that was the best next thing for him. Getting out of Marrone and Hackett's "teachings"

[djjimkelly]

No way he was a better option the way Marrone had him playing scared. Even if we take away our own opinions, Watkins pretty much made it clear that Orton was better .

Now EJ seems to be doing better by not playing scared under Rexy. I hope he keeps getting better but he looked like Trentative and Robosack last year.

everyone is missing my point.

marrone knew we werent making the playoffs even at 2-2. yes maybe orton ran a better O then EJ last year. BUT the kid needed playing time to grow. sometimes in order to develop a qb u put his needs above the franchises. and trust me orton and EJ were about the same. (maybe people forgetting his 8.2 40 speed on some plays last year) its a rare guy that i know id beat in a 100 yard dash who is in the nfl

im sure manning or aikman in year 1 could have been replaced to get 1 or 3 extra wins on the year but it wasnt done so they learn.

SO........ thats why i believe benching manuel was asinine last year.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

everyone is missing my point.

marrone knew we werent making the playoffs even at 2-2. yes maybe orton ran a better O then EJ last year. BUT the kid needed playing time to grow. sometimes in order to develop a qb u put his needs above the franchises. and trust me orton and EJ were about the same. (maybe people forgetting his 8.2 40 speed on some plays last year) its a rare guy that i know id beat in a 100 yard dash who is in the nfl

im sure manning or aikman in year 1 could have been replaced to get 1 or 3 extra wins on the year but it wasnt done so they learn.

SO........ thats why i believe benching manuel was asinine last year.

how did marrone know we weren't making the playoffs last year. Had we beaten the freaking raiders on week 16 on December 21, we would have had a shot at the plAyoffs the next week

[justasportsfan]

everyone is missing my point.

marrone knew we werent making the playoffs even at 2-2. yes maybe orton ran a better O then EJ last year. BUT the kid needed playing time to grow. sometimes in order to develop a qb u put his needs above the franchises. and trust me orton and EJ were about the same. (maybe people forgetting his 8.2 40 speed on some plays last year) its a rare guy that i know id beat in a 100 yard dash who is in the nfl

im sure manning or aikman in year 1 could have been replaced to get 1 or 3 extra wins on the year but it wasnt done so they learn.

SO........ thats why i believe benching manuel was asinine last year.

You're not making sense. Marrone needed to win which is why he started Orton. If he knew they werent making playoffs at 2-2 he would have used the season to develop EJ .

I doubt any coach would think they are out at 2-2 especially with the fins and jets not being that strong last year

[Novacane]

I don't think there's anybody that is supporting EJ to the extent that some in the past supported other QB's...not nearly as rabid, IMO.


You're right. It was more like the war zone back in the Losman/Bledsoe Losman/Edwards days.

[better days]

how did marrone know we weren't making the playoffs last year. Had we beaten the freaking raiders on week 16 on December 21, we would have had a shot at the plAyoffs the next week

Well, maybe the Bills would have actually made the playoffs if Marrone did not bench EJ.

[Yasgur's Farm]

QUOTE=djjimkelly;4121997]everyone is missing my point.

marrone knew we werent making the playoffs even at 2-2. yes maybe orton ran a better O then EJ last year. BUT the kid needed playing time to grow. sometimes in order to develop a qb u put his needs above the franchises. and trust me orton and EJ were about the same. (maybe people forgetting his 8.2 40 speed on some plays last year) its a rare guy that i know id beat in a 100 yard dash who is in the nfl

im sure manning or aikman in year 1 could have been replaced to get 1 or 3 extra wins on the year but it wasnt done so they learn.

SO........ thats why i believe benching manuel was asinine last year.[/QUOTE]I understand your point 100%... I think everyone else does too... Some just choose to spin it into you saying EJ was a better QB.

[JoeMama]

Puh-leeze, Yasgur's Farm.

djjimkelly said Orton was "horrific".

Orton:
64.2% comp rate
3018 yards passing
18 TDs
10 INTS
QBR 87.8
7-5 record

Sorry, that's not even close to horrific.

djjimkelly also said EJ was the better option last year.

An idea so laughable it's not even worth discussing unless you're strapped into a stray jacket somewhere in a nuthouse.

EJ Manuel needs to sit and learn and then play when he's ready to play.

We learned last season that his trial by fire was a mistake.

Which is why Orton had to come in and lead us to a winning record.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your EJ masturbation fest.

You guys kill me with your absolute inability to deal with reality on any level.

[better days]

Puh-leeze, Yasgur's Farm.

djjimkelly said Orton was "horrific".

Orton:
64.2% comp rate
3018 yards passing
18 TDs
10 INTS
QBR 87.8
7-5 record

Sorry, that's not even close to horrific.

djjimkelly also said EJ was the better option last year.

An idea so laughable it's not even worth discussing unless you're strapped into a stray jacket somewhere in a nuthouse.

EJ Manuel needs to sit and learn and then play when he's ready to play.

We learned last season that his trial by fire was a mistake.

Which is why Orton had to come in and lead us to a winning record.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your EJ masturbation fest.

You guys kill me with your absolute inability to deal with reality on any level.

Check out the rookie year of some GOOD QB's such as Troy Aikman.

Playing helped Aikman & others develop into good QB's.

[djjimkelly]

Puh-leeze, Yasgur's Farm.

djjimkelly said Orton was "horrific".

Orton:
64.2% comp rate
3018 yards passing
18 TDs
10 INTS
QBR 87.8
7-5 record

Sorry, that's not even close to horrific.

djjimkelly also said EJ was the better option last year.

An idea so laughable it's not even worth discussing unless you're strapped into a stray jacket somewhere in a nuthouse.

EJ Manuel needs to sit and learn and then play when he's ready to play.

We learned last season that his trial by fire was a mistake.

Which is why Orton had to come in and lead us to a winning record.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your EJ masturbation fest.

You guys kill me with your absolute inability to deal with reality on any level.

so delusional that playing orton helped this franchise.

and i dont care about ej playing this year if there is a better option

64% great when 90% of the passes are under 5 yards .

[WagonCircler]

oh my. so getting your 2nd year pro playing time in a non playoff season has anything to do with my pride lol

im sure whaley and rex would love 12 more gameflims of EJ

yes maybe EJ is the 3 qb right now i dont know but last year from this franchises perspective he was the better option i cant believe some cant see that

and i think all 3 start this year at some point with cassel having the least starts

This is NOT triple-A baseball. It's not a ****ing developmental league. In fact, last year was a non-playoff season, and so will be this year, BECAUSE of EJ. Whaley's ridiculous, stubborn, misguided faith in EJ held this team back from acquiring a true franchise Quarterback.

And don't give be this bull**** about "no QBs were available..bla blah blah..." You package everything we traded to get into position to draft Sammy Watkins and watch what happens if you're truly committed to finding a Quarterback. Sign and trade Dareus. I love Dareus, but this team is going nowhere without a QB. The Bills need to totally sell out, whatever it takes. It will be their undoing until that happens.

[djjimkelly]

This is NOT triple-A baseball. It's not a ****ing developmental league. In fact, last year was a non-playoff season, and so will be this year, BECAUSE of EJ. Whaley's ridiculous, stubborn, misguided faith in EJ held this team back from acquiring a true franchise Quarterback.

And don't give be this bull**** about "no QBs were available..bla blah blah..." You package everything we traded to get into position to draft Sammy Watkins and watch what happens if you're truly committed to finding a Quarterback. Sign and trade Dareus. I love Dareus, but this team is going nowhere without a QB. The Bills need to totally sell out, whatever it takes. It will be their undoing until that happens.


dont blame me for the bills not getting better replacements. id be drafting a qb every year till we hit on one not always a 1st rounder but there are lots of guys i would have drafted the last 10 years in the 2-5th rounds and not russell wilson but there have been plenty of guys we should have taken a chance on

[JoeMama]

so delusional that playing orton helped this franchise.

and i dont care about ej playing this year if there is a better option

64% great when 90% of the passes are under 5 yards .

God you're stupid.

90% of Orton's passes were not under 5 yards.

That trash aside, Orton was 7-5 as a starter and led us to our first winning record in over a decade.

That's a dictionary example of "helping" our franchise.

Keep up with the sour grapes.

He's retired now and you have zero credibility on evaluating QBs.

So give it up already.

You're making yourself sound worse and worse the more you angrily mash your keyboard in your pathetic attempt to trash anyone who's not EJ Manuel.

Completely pathetic...

[better days]

God you're stupid.

90% of Orton's passes were not under 5 yards.

That trash aside, Orton was 7-5 as a starter and led us to our first winning record in over a decade.

That's a dictionary example of "helping" our franchise.

Keep up with the sour grapes.

He's retired now and you have zero credibility on evaluating QBs.

So give it up already.

You're making yourself sound worse and worse the more you angrily mash your keyboard in your pathetic attempt to trash anyone who's not EJ Manuel.

Completely pathetic...

Orton was 7-5 with a loss against the Raiders who only beat 2 other teams all year & a meaningless win in the last game of the year when the CHEATERS sat their starters.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Short term... No doubt Orton was the better choice for the success of the Bills 2014 season.
Long term... No doubt Orton was the poor choice for the success of the Bills going forward.

[sudzy]

Short term... No doubt Orton was the better choice for the success of the Bills 2014 season.
Long term... No doubt Orton was the poor choice for the success of the Bills going forward.

Short term: Orton was a good choice. The Bills finished with their best record in a decade
Long term: The choice was moot. Orton didn't take any reps away from either QB competing for the starting job. So the fact Orton started last year has NO effect on this team moving forward.

[better days]

Short term: Orton was a good choice. The Bills finished with their best record in a decade
Long term: The choice was moot. Orton didn't take any reps away from either QB competing for the starting job. So the fact Orton started last year has NO effect on this team moving forward.

WRONG. If EJ had played last year, we would know he is or isn't the QB going forward.

As it is, NOBODY REALLY knows if he could be the QB going forward.

Even if EJ goes into the season as the #3 QB, Cassel & Tyrod could both get injured.

[sudzy]

WRONG. If EJ had played last year, we would know he is or isn't the QB going forward.

As it is, NOBODY REALLY knows if he could be the QB going forward.

Even if EJ goes into the season as the #3 QB, Cassel & Tyrod could both get injured.

People know. Rex knows. That's why EJ has been 3rd string. The only people that don't know are the EJ apologist and they don't want to know.

[Bill Cody]

You should get a PR job.

That's one hell of a spin job for some of EJ's uglier fans who are willing to trash anyone and anything who don't proclaim EJ the greatest thing on God's green earth.

They know who they are.

I'm not going to single them out and throw them under the bus since I'm trying to keep it positive here.

Like I said, I want the best 3 QB's on our roster come September and I think EJ is making a fine case to make it.

I'm not here to air out the dirty laundry. Just celebrate some positives.

Wow this is a stretch. There is very little of anything approaching fan boy level with EJ that I see on this site. Who in hell said EJ was the greatest anything lol?

Many of us just have a brain in our heads and knew going in that EJ was a project. The idea that after 4 NFL starts he should be better than a 10 year vet is pretty dumb IMHO. Orton should have better and he was, marginally. That's not the issue unless they start handing out trophies for being average. Some folks are so starved for a winner that a journeyman delivering a journeyman's performance is enough to pull out stats to make their pathetic arguments. It's a joke. Orton is what he is. Cassell is what he is. Not good enough. Sure EJ was worse and not ready. It wasn't a surprise, to me at least. The hope was he would get better. His upside is > Orton. You seem all hot and bothered that some of us weren't ready to pass judgement on EJ unlike the more "intelligent" posters. So you wildly exaggerate the level and intensity of EJ's support. To me it's quite bizarre that hoping for the best for a 1st round pick would be hard for any Bills fan to stomach. I guess I don't get it.

[Bill Cody]

They remind me of Drew Bledsoe fans from the range.

And once he left for Dallas, they all left the range. And I was like HALLELUJAH! Good riddance to those non-Bills fans.

We definitely have a contingent of EJ or nobody fans on this site.

See how badly they trashed Orton last year even though Orton outplayed EJ by a mile.

No objectivity. No football IQ. No credibility.

And that's coming from a guy who actually thinks EJ is a good kid and wants to see him succeed.

But damn, his fans are a detriment to his popularity around here. They're just such myopic homers with zero objectivity.

ha ha the Bledsoe fans were right. We should have kept him and gave him a chance with a decent line. The clown car that followed him showed it was not his fault. But the situation with EJ is totally different. Bledsoe was a good player, EJ may never be. But he's shown some flashes, enough to have some hope, that's all.

[Victor7]

Well, maybe the Bills would have actually made the playoffs if Marrone did not bench EJ.

This post can not be serious.

Someone tell me its a joke please.

[WagonCircler]

This post can not be serious.

Someone tell me its a joke please.

No vic, it's the poster who's a joke.

[The Jokeman]

Wow this is a stretch. There is very little of anything approaching fan boy level with EJ that I see on this site. Who in hell said EJ was the greatest anything lol?

Many of us just have a brain in our heads and knew going in that EJ was a project. The idea that after 4 NFL starts he should be better than a 10 year vet is pretty dumb IMHO. Orton should have better and he was, marginally. That's not the issue unless they start handing out trophies for being average. Some folks are so starved for a winner that a journeyman delivering a journeyman's performance is enough to pull out stats to make their pathetic arguments. It's a joke. Orton is what he is. Cassell is what he is. Not good enough. Sure EJ was worse and not ready. It wasn't a surprise, to me at least. The hope was he would get better. His upside is > Orton. You seem all hot and bothered that some of us weren't ready to pass judgement on EJ unlike the more "intelligent" posters. So you wildly exaggerate the level and intensity of EJ's support. To me it's quite bizarre that hoping for the best for a 1st round pick would be hard for any Bills fan to stomach. I guess I don't get it.

This debate sounds so much the debate I had in the RJ vs Flutie days it's scary. I supported RJ then and said so many of the same things about experience etc.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Wow this is a stretch. There is very little of anything approaching fan boy level with EJ that I see on this site. Who in hell said EJ was the greatest anything lol?

Many of us just have a brain in our heads and knew going in that EJ was a project. The idea that after 4 NFL starts he should be better than a 10 year vet is pretty dumb IMHO. Orton should have better and he was, marginally. That's not the issue unless they start handing out trophies for being average. Some folks are so starved for a winner that a journeyman delivering a journeyman's performance is enough to pull out stats to make their pathetic arguments. It's a joke. Orton is what he is. Cassell is what he is. Not good enough. Sure EJ was worse and not ready. It wasn't a surprise, to me at least. The hope was he would get better. His upside is > Orton. You seem all hot and bothered that some of us weren't ready to pass judgement on EJ unlike the more "intelligent" posters. So you wildly exaggerate the level and intensity of EJ's support. To me it's quite bizarre that hoping for the best for a 1st round pick would be hard for any Bills fan to stomach. I guess I don't get it.Nailed it

[JoeMama]

ha ha the Bledsoe fans were right

This tells me all I need to know about how little you know about the sport of football.

Drew Bledsoe was a turnover-prone sack machine with zero pocket presence and NO leadership skills.

Not to mention a fragile psyche -- because once he started having a bad game, he spiraled into having an even worse game. He never bounced back from adversity.

And given how poorly he played in Dallas, I think it's a close and shut case of you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'm done listening to your advice on QB's because you're completely clueless.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

This tells me all I need to know about how little you know about the sport of football.

Drew Bledsoe was a turnover-prone sack machine with zero pocket presence and NO leadership skills.

Not to mention a fragile psyche -- because once he started having a bad game, he spiraled into having an even worse game. He never bounced back from adversity.

And given how poorly he played in Dallas, I think it's a close and shut case of you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'm done listening to your advice on QB's because you're completely clueless.

you've been real angry lately

entertaining, but angry. keep it up.

[Bill Cody]

This tells me all I need to know about how little you know about the sport of football.

Drew Bledsoe was a turnover-prone sack machine with zero pocket presence and NO leadership skills.

Not to mention a fragile psyche -- because once he started having a bad game, he spiraled into having an even worse game. He never bounced back from adversity.

And given how poorly he played in Dallas, I think it's a close and shut case of you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I'm done listening to your advice on QB's because you're completely clueless.

hahahahaha what will I do now, so distraught

[JoeMama]

you've been real angry lately

entertaining, but angry. keep it up.

Angry is an understatement.

15 years of ****ty football is finally taking a toll on my psyche.

And it's only getting worse when I see a bunch of shameless homers talk about how great so many of our bad quarterbacks are as if they're ****ing blind and/or never watched a football game in their life.

[Bill Cody]

This debate sounds so much the debate I had in the RJ vs Flutie days it's scary. I supported RJ then and said so many of the same things about experience etc.

I was on the other side of that one lol

[JoeMama]

hahahahaha what will I do now, so distraught

I imagine you'll just keep doing what you always do.

Talk about how great bad quarterbacks are.

Why let me stop you?

[Bill Cody]

Angry is an understatement.

15 years of ****ty football is finally taking a toll on my psyche.

And it's only getting worse when I see a bunch of shameless homers talk about how great so many of our bad quarterbacks are as if they're ****ing blind and/or never watched a football game in their life.

this post is a douchebag

[Bill Cody]

I imagine you'll just keep doing what you always do.

Talk about how great bad quarterbacks are.

Why let me stop you?

I've never done that but carry on you're a roll. A nut roll but a roll.

[JoeMama]

I've never done that but carry on you're a roll. A nut roll but a roll.

Do you have the memory of a ****ing goldfish?

You said we should have kept Drew ****ing Bledsoe.

The most turnover-prone, sack machine, choke artist we've had since Rob Johnson.

Bledsoe, the same guy who couldn't beat Pittsburgh's third stringers and cost us the playoffs in 2004.

Let that sink in.

[Bill Cody]

Do you have the memory of a ****ing goldfish?

You said we should have kept Drew ****ing Bledsoe.

The most turnover-prone, sack machine, choke artist we've had since Rob Johnson.

Bledsoe, the same guy who couldn't beat Pittsburgh's third stringers and cost us the playoffs in 2004.

Let that sink in.

try decaf bro. That's closer than we've been to the playoffs since including your boy Orton who is not even average. Fitz is better. Orton's funeral will symbolize his career, 5 pallbearers on each side. Orton goes drinking with mark Sanchez and they argue about who is more mediocre. Nobody's saying anything about great, that's all in that overheated empty tunnel you call a brain. And yeah Bledsoe is better than Losman, all day every day and those were our choices. So if you were on the other side of that argument I would put your football IQ at zero. You talk about Bledsoe sucking in Dallas. Where did Losman go? The Food Lion? And the guy was a dick, reminds me a lot of your posts.

[swiper]

Nailed it

No he didn't. It's more typical Bills Cody uninterpretable gibberish that makes no sense. It's just code for his being an EJ lover. Because he isn't too smart.

[Bill Cody]

No he didn't. It's more typical Bills Cody uninterpretable gibberish that makes no sense. It's just code for his being an EJ lover. Because he isn't too smart.

Not as smart as you of course. It's kind of you to duck out of your Mensa meeting to share your piercing intellect with us, always a pleasure.

[JoeMama]

try decaf bro. That's closer than we've been to the playoffs since including your boy Orton who is not even average. Fitz is better. Orton's funeral will symbolize his career, 5 pallbearers on each side. Orton goes drinking with mark Sanchez and they argue about who is more mediocre. Nobody's saying anything about great, that's all in that overheated empty tunnel you call a brain. And yeah Bledsoe is better than Losman, all day every day and those were our choices. So if you were on the other side of that argument I would put your football IQ at zero. You talk about Bledsoe sucking in Dallas. Where did Losman go? The Food Lion? And the guy was a dick, reminds me a lot of your posts.

Ok be a Bledsoe homer.

That makes you look bad.

Not me.

And yes, I am dick. Especially when dealing with morons. Deal with it.

BTW if EJ put up the numbers Orton did last year you'd be jizzing all over the place and lauding him as the best QB since Flutie.

[JoeMama]

Let me dumb my argument down for the sake of the EJ fans, who have a hard time understanding much of anything.

If EJ played last year and put up these numbers:

64.2% comp rate
3018 yards passing
18 TDs
10 INTS
QBR 87.8
7-5 record

I would 100% be behind him as our starting QB this year.

[Yasgur's Farm]

As a mod of this forum, I need to insist that the name calling and belittling will begin resulting in points. This is a clear violation of the TOS... http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/12-Terms-Of-Conduct-and-Service

All contributing parties should consider this FAIR warning.

[JoeMama]

Also I would like to point out that I started this thread under the pretense I thought EJ was doing a good job recently and deserves a roster spot.

Somehow, that wasn't good enough.

Apparently you have to crown him king of the universe or else you're an EJ hater.

Amazing stuff. Truly.

[Meathead]

As a mod of this forum, I need to insist that the name calling and belittling will begin resulting in points. This is a clear violation of the TOS... http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/12-Terms-Of-Conduct-and-Service

All contributing parties should consider this FAIR warning.
i agree with the ignorant slut

[Mace]

Also I would like to point out that I started this thread under the pretense I thought EJ was doing a good job recently and deserves a roster spot.

Somehow, that wasn't good enough.

Apparently you have to crown him king of the universe or else you're an EJ hater.

Amazing stuff. Truly.

Same with any of the QB's, Mama, or much of anything. The world has shifted to black and white, no shades of gray.

[Bill Cody]

Ok be a Bledsoe homer.

That makes you look bad.

Not me.

And yes, I am dick. Especially when dealing with morons. Deal with it.

BTW if EJ put up the numbers Orton did last year you'd be jizzing all over the place and lauding him as the best QB since Flutie.

what did you like best about Losman? Was it the way the way the wind carried his flowing locks? Because he was very bad at his job, you know, the QB thing? You're calling me a moron because I recognize the painfully obvious, that Losman was an abject failure? But you can't? That's not my problem bud it's yours. Deal with it.

[Bill Cody]

Let me dumb my argument down for the sake of the EJ fans, who have a hard time understanding much of anything.

If EJ played last year and put up these numbers:

64.2% comp rate
3018 yards passing
18 TDs
10 INTS
QBR 87.8
7-5 record

I would 100% be behind him as our starting QB this year.
That would be unlikely. But irrevelant if he did play and his last 4 or 5 games were at that pace. Because those numbers from Orton got us exactly what? No playoffs. Orton retired. And EJ still an inexperienced question mark. Yeah sign me up for THAT.

[Bill Cody]

Apparently you have to crown him king of the universe or else you're an EJ hater.

Amazing stuff. Truly.
You're very good at battling straw men. Pure fiction.

[JoeMama]

You're very good at battling straw men. Pure fiction.

Not when EJ fans are throwing fits even though I literally said he's made enough strides to deserve a roster spot.

You guys are a weird bunch.

But that's not EJ's fault, which is why I still like the kid and will continue to root for development if he's up for the task.

[JoeMama]

That would be unlikely. But irrevelant if he did play and his last 4 or 5 games were at that pace. Because those numbers from Orton got us exactly what? No playoffs. Orton retired. And EJ still an inexperienced question mark. Yeah sign me up for THAT.

I call bull****.

You'd be elated if EJ improved his comp %, TD/INT, and yards per game on par with Kyle Orton last year.

You can lie to other people, but I've got a really sharp bull**** radar.

So no, thanks for playing.

[JoeMama]

what did you like best about Losman? Was it the way the way the wind carried his flowing locks? Because he was very bad at his job, you know, the QB thing? You're calling me a moron because I recognize the painfully obvious, that Losman was an abject failure? But you can't? That's not my problem bud it's yours. Deal with it.

Of course I think Losman was a failure. WTF are you even talking about now? This is so off topic.

Blame OBD if you don't like that Bledsoe was let go in order to hand the starting job to JP.

Not me.

Totally misdirected rant.

[sukie]

I simply do not want cassel starting. It's a clear rung below Orton and 2 below Fitz.

Run with taylor or ej. OBD can yank either of them week 5 to satisfy everyone and cassel can go 6-6 THEN RETIRE.

Next season maybe Matt Moore will be available for our collective wanderlust for safe and steady QB play instead of developing talent.

[Mike]

oh my. so getting your 2nd year pro playing time in a non playoff season has anything to do with my pride lol

im sure whaley and rex would love 12 more gameflims of EJ

yes maybe EJ is the 3 qb right now i dont know but last year from this franchises perspective he was the better option i cant believe some cant see that

and i think all 3 start this year at some point with cassel having the least starts


So your willing to tank a season for EJ Manual but not for Andrew Luck?

[Mike]

everyone is missing my point.

marrone knew we werent making the playoffs even at 2-2. yes maybe orton ran a better O then EJ last year. BUT the kid needed playing time to grow. sometimes in order to develop a qb u put his needs above the franchises. and trust me orton and EJ were about the same. (maybe people forgetting his 8.2 40 speed on some plays last year) its a rare guy that i know id beat in a 100 yard dash who is in the nfl

im sure manning or aikman in year 1 could have been replaced to get 1 or 3 extra wins on the year but it wasnt done so they learn.

SO........ thats why i believe benching manuel was asinine last year.


Before the Lakers drafted Kobe, their GM watching him tryout and after 5 minutes got up and walked away.

He knew right away that Kobe was special and traded to draft him.


In a very similar way, many scouts, GMs, coaches & fans knew right away that Luck was lights out, that Wilson had that it factor (heck he started as a rookie after Seahawks traded for & paid top dollar for QB)

Similarly, it also takes 5 minutes to note that EJ Manual can't hit the broad side of a barn.


The eyes don't lie to you. Just watch him play, how he reads a defense, how he throws the ball, his mechanics, fluidity, mastery of the game. EJ Manual does Not have it and never will. It's painfully clear and it's always been clear. Forget last season, 1,000 games won't help him!

[Mike]

To the EJ homers,

Doesn't it speak volumes that EJ couldn't beat out Kyle Orton, a career journeyman who joined the team late?

And now EJ can't beat out another journeyman in Cassel and a guy who hasn't started a single NFL game.

Common, your 1st round QB -in his 3rd year- should at least be able to hold onto his job vs 2 nobodies!

[swiper]

I simply do not want cassel starting. It's a clear rung below Orton and 2 below Fitz.
.

I simply do want Cassel starting. He's 2 rungs above both Cassel and Fitz. Got to watch Fitz play for the Jets already. Just wait. It won't be too long before Brandon Marshall is bemoaning the the fact Fitz can't throw beyond ten yards. I don't want to see the throwing RB (Taylor) or the inept one (Manuel) playing at all. And the Bills have had at least 2 shots at Matt Moore in past years. Now he's beyond his use-by date. While I gladly would have taken him in 2007, I want nothing to do with him now. If the Bills go get a QB to start his name should be Zach Mettenberger. Until then, Cassel is the only pro on the roster.

[senseofdoom]

Best thing that could have happened to Manuel was to get benched. Watching Orton play or lead an offense, interact with coaches in meetings and/or see him in studying film is what Manuel needed from the see to get better. Unfortunately this should have been the plan from the get go.

For the record, that was the plan going in. Everyone knew he was a project and would need some time on the bench before he'd be ready to play.

It was Kolb's career ending slip on a wet rubber mat that forced Manuel into the starting job.

[Bill Cody]

Not when EJ fans are throwing fits even though I literally said he's made enough strides to deserve a roster spot.

You guys are a weird bunch.

But that's not EJ's fault, which is why I still like the kid and will continue to root for development if he's up for the task.

I'm not part of any "bunch". You thread got some push back for labeling EJ fans as "obnoxious". I'll let the folks that have read this stupid thread judge whether you should be calling anyone obnoxious.

[Bill Cody]

Of course I think Losman was a failure. WTF are you even talking about now? This is so off topic.

Blame OBD if you don't like that Bledsoe was let go in order to hand the starting job to JP.

Not me.

Totally misdirected rant.

Ok I live in the real world as a Bills fan. YOU said I was a "moron" for thinking Bledsoe should stay. I didn't bring the subject up it's ancient history. But as long as you did I simply pointed out the obvious; Bledsoe was better than JP and we would have been much better off with Drew, it was one or the other, Montana wasn't walking through that door. The funny part of your hatred of Bledsoe is you seem to love Orton, a guy who wasn't even as good as Bledsoe. Anyway good luck with your anger issues, maybe you and Wagon Circler can find some walls that need punching.

[Bill Cody]

I call bull****.

You'd be elated if EJ improved his comp %, TD/INT, and yards per game on par with Kyle Orton last year.

You can lie to other people, but I've got a really sharp bull**** radar.

So no, thanks for playing.

Reading comp Joe. I just got through saying if EJ improved and played the way Orton did (especially early in the year, Orton got worse as the season went on) in the last 4 or 5 games that would have made last year more worthwhile. We knew what Orton was. The hope was EJ could do better eventually. Anyway awesome discussion thanks much!

[Meathead]

heres a story
of an ugly fanbase
whos reliving fourteen very ugly years

all of them had dreams of wins,
like their owner,
their playoff dreams so clear

heres a story
of a man named rexy
who was busy with three qbs of his own

they were four men
trying all together
to find a jimbo clone

till the one day when the fanbase met this head coach
and they knew it was much more than a hunch
that his group would never amount to toad ѕhit
thats the way they all became the weirdie bunch

[Goobylal]

To the EJ homers,

Doesn't it speak volumes that EJ couldn't beat out Kyle Orton, a career journeyman who joined the team late?

And now EJ can't beat out another journeyman in Cassel and a guy who hasn't started a single NFL game.

Common, your 1st round QB -in his 3rd year- should at least be able to hold onto his job vs 2 nobodies!
EJ did beat out Orton. He was benched after a ******ed game plan and pathetic team performance against the Texans.

I simply do want Cassel starting. He's 2 rungs above both Cassel and Fitz. Got to watch Fitz play for the Jets already. Just wait. It won't be too long before Brandon Marshall is bemoaning the the fact Fitz can't throw beyond ten yards. I don't want to see the throwing RB (Taylor) or the inept one (Manuel) playing at all. And the Bills have had at least 2 shots at Matt Moore in past years. Now he's beyond his use-by date. While I gladly would have taken him in 2007, I want nothing to do with him now. If the Bills go get a QB to start his name should be Zach Mettenberger. Until then, Cassel is the only pro on the roster.
Cassel sucks. His career has been pedestrian at best and can be described as the definition of a "journeyman." His last 4 seasons have been worse than "the inept one" and he can't blame inexperience or poor coaching for them. Never mind that he's had his season ended early in 3 of them and he's not a spring chicken anymore. Going with him would be stupid because he won't be on the team next year and then they'll be back to where they were, just like last season into this one. Hoping he can recreate his season from 5 and 7 years ago is like buying lottery tickets as your strategy for making money.

[Victor7]

EJ did beat out Orton. He was benched after a ******ed game plan and pathetic team performance against the Texans.

Cassel sucks. His career has been pedestrian at best and can be described as the definition of a "journeyman." His last 4 seasons have been worse than "the inept one" and he can't blame inexperience or poor coaching for them. Never mind that he's had his season ended early in 3 of them and he's not a spring chicken anymore. Going with him would be stupid because he won't be on the team next year and then they'll be back to where they were, just like last season into this one. Hoping he can recreate his season from 5 and 7 years ago is like buying lottery tickets as your strategy for making money.

Soooooo false. Go look up when we signed Orton.

Now think what that says about the coaches thoughts on EJ.

[WagonCircler]

EJ did beat out Orton. He was benched after a ******ed game plan and pathetic team performance against the Texans

DELUSIONAL!

You EJ flutters are so out of your minds that you just make **** up. Orson was signed AFTER Training Camp! And he was signed only after Marrone threatened to decapitate Whaley if he didn't get him a real QB.

[Goobylal]

Soooooo false. Go look up when we signed Orton.

Now think what that says about the coaches thoughts on EJ.
Fair enough. But claiming Orton beat out EJ is soooooo false as well.

And whose thoughts? Marrone and Hackett? I knew they were chumps before that move.

[Victor7]

Fair enough. But claiming Orton beat out EJ is soooooo false as well.

And whose thoughts? Marrone and Hackett? I knew they were chumps before that move.

He was signed after training camp and became the starter a month into his time here when it became obvious EJ couldn't do it. A month!! I would call that beating him out wouldn't you?

Marrone and Hackett sure were chumps. How about Rex and Roman ? Because they have him ranked 3rd well behind a guy that has never started a game and a journeyman all the EJ lovers say sucks.

[Goobylal]

DELUSIONAL!

You EJ flutters are so out of your minds that you just make **** up. Orson was signed AFTER Training Camp! And he was signed only after Marrone threatened to decapitate Whaley if he didn't get him a real QB.
Now who's making **** up?

[Goobylal]

He was signed after training camp and became the starter a month into his time here when it became obvious EJ couldn't do it. A month!! I would call that beating him out wouldn't you?

Marrone and Hackett sure were chumps. How about Rex and Roman ? Because they have him ranked 3rd well behind a guy that has never started a game and a journeyman all the EJ lovers say sucks.
No, he didn't beat him out. He replaced him, again after Marrone's ineptitude and a poor all-around team effort cost the Bills yet another game.

The jury is out on Ryan and Roman. If they go with Cassel, they'll be chumps too.

[Yasgur's Farm]

The reasons we delusional EJ supporters are bullish on EJ is simple...
1) EJ's College stats > both Cassel and TT.
2) EJ's NFL stats > both Cassel and TT.
3) EJ's 2015 preseason stats > both Cassel and TT.
4) Consequently EJ's floor > both Cassel and TT.
5) EJ's ceiling > Cassel and arguably TT.

Forget about Orton... These are the 3 who are competing for #1-#3 Bill QB... Therefore, these are the 3 we're comparing.

[Victor7]

No, he didn't beat him out. He replaced him, again after Marrone's ineptitude and a poor all-around team effort cost the Bills yet another game.

Ok he replaced him then. Why ? Because he was better. Ergo. He beat him


The jury is out on Ryan and Roman. If they go with Cassel, they'll be chumps too.

Sure! So they should go with EJ then ? Would that make then not chumps in your eyes?

[Meathead]

Orson was signed AFTER Training Camp!

and he looked a LOT older than 31 at the time

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BOTE1Nzg5NzMwM15BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwMDQwMTM2._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg

[Meathead]

ej got benched mainly bc he had two horrendous games in a row. that team was ready to compete for a playoff spot and they didnt have the luxury of letting ej play through it. when you have a reasonably competent starter on your bench you need to go with him at that point

ej was boned tremendously by marrone, mainly by the mind bottlingly bad decision not to get him a qb coach five seconds after he was drafted, and he still might develop into a good starter. but getting yanked at that point in favor or orton was the right thing to do imo

[JoeMama]

Reading comp Joe. I just got through saying if EJ improved and played the way Orton did (especially early in the year, Orton got worse as the season went on) in the last 4 or 5 games that would have made last year more worthwhile. We knew what Orton was. The hope was EJ could do better eventually. Anyway awesome discussion thanks much!

Doesn't change the fact that Orton was clearly the better choice in 2014.

EJ was losing confidence and regressing horribly.

A change in QB's was necessary.

And even though we missed the playoffs, it was the right move.

Orton dropped the ball vs the Raiders, his lowest moment of the season. And had a bonehead mistake that really hurt us vs the Broncos (but they were a much better team than we were so I'm not as upset about that loss).

But the past is done and over with.

Now we have a clean slate and three guys who are seem to be making strides.

We don't need any of them to be Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to win some football games. We just need somebody to play smart football and minimize mistakes. Hopefully one off the three is up to the task.

[JoeMama]

I'm not part of any "bunch". You thread got some push back for labeling EJ fans as "obnoxious". I'll let the folks that have read this stupid thread judge whether you should be calling anyone obnoxious.

Yes and I stand by my EJ fans are obnoxious comments.

They put him ahead of the team.

And I'm a team first guy so yes, I find that attitude obnoxious.

Sue me.

[Goobylal]

Ok he replaced him then. Why ? Because he was better. Ergo. He beat him
Nope. Orton was a 10 year vet who Marrone panicked into starting but he sucked down the stretch and the Bills failed to reach the playoffs anyway. Could have done that with EJ (hell, even Tuel) and given him more time to develop. Instead they had to start all over. Going with Cassel will prove to be the same thing.


Sure! So they should go with EJ then ? Would that make then not chumps in your eyes?
If they go with Cassel, yes. If they go with TT, I'd be fine with it. At least he hasn't proven to be a journeyman with no upside.

ej got benched mainly bc he had two horrendous games in a row. that team was ready to compete for a playoff spot and they didnt have the luxury of letting ej play through it. when you have a reasonably competent starter on your bench you need to go with him at that point

ej was boned tremendously by marrone, mainly by the mind bottlingly bad decision not to get him a qb coach five seconds after he was drafted, and he still might develop into a good starter. but getting yanked at that point in favor or orton was the right thing to do imo
He was boned by more than just that. The gameplan in Houston was for the Bills to pass against the worst run defense in the league? Seriously? Nevermind the sieve that was the OL in those 2 games.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Yes and I stand by my EJ fans are obnoxious comments.

They put him ahead of the team.

And I'm a team first guy so yes, I find that attitude obnoxious.

Sue me.Here's the deal... I can't speak for anyone else... This is a QB competition and this is preseason. That said, I have what I consider my horse in the race... That's my prerogative... Just like the Bills fan who wants MC, TT, or even MS. My choice in this matter does not make me any less of a Bills fan than you or anyone else.

But make no mistake... When the season starts, my support will be for the guy who lines up under center.

Clear enough?

[Bill Cody]

Yes and I stand by my EJ fans are obnoxious comments.

They put him ahead of the team.

And I'm a team first guy so yes, I find that attitude obnoxious.

Sue me.

That's your take but it seems to me you're equating "disagrees with me" with "obnoxious". Isn't it possible the EJ supporters simply feel he's the best choice right now? After all, all 3 candidates have their warts. Looks to me like the choices are Moe, Larry or Curly. Anyway it looks like EJ is out of the picture whether he makes the team or not so rest easy.

[Victor7]

Nope. Orton was a 10 year vet who Marrone panicked into starting but he sucked down the stretch and the Bills failed to reach the playoffs anyway. Could have done that with EJ (hell, even Tuel) and given him more time to develop. Instead they had to start all over. Going with Cassel will prove to be the same thing.

We were in the mix for a spot in the big dance until almost the very end. Orton was a part of that even if he "faded" towards the end like you say. Saying that because we missed them we should've played EJ anyway after the fact is quite invalid and quite frankly a bit dumb. If you wanna say we should've played him once we were officially eliminated I can understand that. But this arm chair second guessing is just not right.



If they go with Cassel, yes. If they go with TT, I'd be fine with it. At least he hasn't proven to be a journeyman with no upside.

Be prepared then for more chumps leading us because Cassel will start week one. Guess you must know more than our past 2 coaching staffs.

Here's EJ's last 2 seasons summarized

Last year he was benched for a journeyman who had a month on the team

This year he's waaaay behind a guy with zero starts in 5 years and a journeyman with no upside (your words).

He's toast. Let it go.

[JoeMama]

That's your take but it seems to me you're equating "disagrees with me" with "obnoxious". Isn't it possible the EJ supporters simply feel he's the best choice right now? After all, all 3 candidates have their warts. Looks to me like the choices are Moe, Larry or Curly. Anyway it looks like EJ is out of the picture whether he makes the team or not so rest easy.

I have no qualms about having him as your frontrunner RIGHT NOW. We all have our preferences and I don't begrudge anyone who thinks he might be able to turn it around in year 3. Who knows, maybe he can.

I'm talking about all of you who said he should have started LAST YEAR over Orton when it was painfully obvious EJ was nowhere near ready for the job.

[Goobylal]

We were in the mix for a spot in the big dance until almost the very end. Orton was a part of that even if he "faded" towards the end like you say. Saying that because we missed them we should've played EJ anyway after the fact is quite invalid and quite frankly a bit dumb. If you wanna say we should've played him once we were officially eliminated I can understand that. But this arm chair second guessing is just not right.
It's not me saying it; Orton faded. He threw 6 TD's to 7 INT's the last 5 games, which were crucial games WRT making the playoffs. And sure it's dumb to look back in hindsight...when it's not convenient for you.


Be prepared then for more chumps leading us because Cassel will start week one. Guess you must know more than our past 2 coaching staffs.
I doubt Cassel will be the opening day starter. I could even envision him being cut and his $4.5M salary being put to better use.


Here's EJ's last 2 seasons summarized

Last year he was benched for a journeyman who had a month on the team

This year he's waaaay behind a guy with zero starts in 5 years and a journeyman with no upside (your words).

He's toast. Let it go.
Give EJ at least another 2 years in the league and then we can being to talk about where he is in relation to those guys. But he's not waaaay behind anyone anymore. Notice he started getting starter reps again after the 2nd pre-season game and will get time with the starters against Pgh? Think that's a coincidence?

And don't even bring up the last 2 years when it comes to Cassel, much less the last 4 years. He'd aspire to be as "toast" as you fancy EJ is.

[Bill Cody]

I have no qualms about having him as your frontrunner RIGHT NOW. We all have our preferences and I don't begrudge anyone who thinks he might be able to turn it around in year 3. Who knows, maybe he can.

I'm talking about all of you who said he should have started LAST YEAR over Orton when it was painfully obvious EJ was nowhere near ready for the job.

I understood the Orton move. At the time I was ambivalent about it. I expected Orton to be marginally better as a seasoned vet and he was. But I was skeptical Orton was really good enough to matter. As it turns out, do I think it benefitted the Bills long term? No, not really. I'm just not sure how you improve much by pulling splinters out of your ass on the bench. And we started over again anyway with a new HC and new QB. My guess is we would have been maybe 7-9 with EJ playing. To me that's no different than 9-7, both are on the outside looking in for the playoffs. Anyway last year is over, let's move on shall we? Glad to hear the obnoxious comment only applied to the past.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Joe... The only reason any of us think EJ should have been allowed to have the whole season (and it's been stated very clearly many times by quite a few of us) was for his development and the Bills assessment. Ultimately that is best for the franchise in the long run... Sorta gets us off the merry-go-round so to speak. Truth is that we'll more than likely need to go thru that same 2-3year process with a drafted QB in the future... So we may as well lean to be patient in the event that EJ or TT don't work out.

Very few of us have stated that EJ was better statistically than Orton... Although the possibility, however remote, was there for EJ to ultimately have a better (if he developed) 2014 than Orton did.

I think the problem you're having is that you are attributing all pro EJ poster comments (obnoxious or otherwise) to each individual EJ poster. It's an easy thing to have happen.

[JoeMama]

Joe... The only reason any of us think EJ should have been allowed to have the whole season (and it's been stated very clearly many times by quite a few of us) was for his development and the Bills assessment. Ultimately that is best for the franchise in the long run... Sorta gets us off the merry-go-round so to speak. Truth is that we'll more than likely need to go thru that same 2-3year process with a drafted QB in the future... So we may as well lean to be patient in the event that EJ or TT don't work out.

Very few of us have stated that EJ was better statistically than Orton... Although the possibility, however remote, was there for EJ to ultimately have a better (if he developed) 2014 than Orton did.

I think the problem you're having is that you are attributing all pro EJ poster comments (obnoxious or otherwise) to each individual EJ poster. It's an easy thing to have happen.

That's probably our biggest area of disagreement.

I refuse to throw the towel in on an entire season for the sake of coddling one quarterback. We were damn close to being a playoff team and enjoyed our first winning season in over a decade. We fell just short but it was the right thing to do.

EJ Manuel, as we all knew, was and is a project. There was no need to let him start in season two, especially after his confidence was shattered and his accuracy was in complete ruins after only 4 short games.

The kid wasn't ready.

Football is about playing to win now unless you're in full-on rebuilding mode, which we were not last season.

[Meathead]

He was boned by more than just that. The gameplan in Houston was for the Bills to pass against the worst run defense in the league? Seriously? Nevermind the sieve that was the OL in those 2 games.

the gameplans all season were shaky. oline play was awful. maroone and pimpleface really mishandled ej the whole time tbh

he still earned his yanking with those two games. if they were going to be bottom dwellers or had no other option then sure let him play through it, and i suspect he would have. but with that team and orton just sitting there i think it was the right call

[Meathead]

i honestly expected ej to start the season bc a) they need to find out where he is in real games, ix) ty is a poor black mans ron mexico, 3) cassel is the insurance

i expected ty to look like you would expect of a running qb - tendency to make big plays running but not able to make enough plays with his arm when you need them. but thats not what has happened so far. preseason is almost meaningless but you cant deny what ty has done, looking phenomenal every time hes lead the offense. no way to be sure he will be able to keep doing that, in fact i suspect defenses will manage to cut way down on the big runs, but still hes been so good that hes forced himself into the lead imo

id like to see him start, but if the reports are true that roman wants cassel then rexy really has no choice but to let him have who he wants. you cant land the best oc available, have him swap sf for bflo, and then tell him he want have the guy he wants to run his offense

im hoping its a smokescreen, rexy coyly making it look like the big secret is cassel being targeted to start only to plug ty in and let the colts deal wid it. but if its cassel then all we can do is root for matt to buck his recent trend of being a painfully mediocre dink and dunker

[Goobylal]

the gameplans all season were shaky. oline play was awful. maroone and pimpleface really mishandled ej the whole time tbh

he still earned his yanking with those two games. if they were going to be bottom dwellers or had no other option then sure let him play through it, and i suspect he would have. but with that team and orton just sitting there i think it was the right call
Maybe. But the whole team played poorly in those games. In the Texans game there were numerous dropped passes, the OL was garbage, and the gameplan of passing on the worst run defense was mind-bogglingly stupid. But if anything, going with Orton and getting to 9-7 gave Moron the balls to go to management and get himself fired, so I guess that move wasn't all bad.

[Victor7]

It's not me saying it; Orton faded. He threw 6 TD's to 7 INT's the last 5 games, which were crucial games WRT making the playoffs. And sure it's dumb to look back in hindsight...when it's not convenient for you.

Its dumb anyway. We were in it until almost the end. EJ had no business playing. Its very simple really.


I doubt Cassel will be the opening day starter. I could even envision him being cut and his $4.5M salary being put to better use.

But he will. Trust me. And if he's not it'll be Taylor. Certainly not Manuel. And he's not getting cut. I'll bet that one with you if you are so sure. Rex won't go into the season with that little experience at the position


Give EJ at least another 2 years in the league and then we can being to talk about where he is in relation to those guys. But he's not waaaay behind anyone anymore. Notice he started getting starter reps again after the 2nd pre-season game and will get time with the starters against Pgh? Think that's a coincidence?


hahaha ok

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rex in response to EJ not getting same 1st team reps: &quot;We&#39;ll see how it goes Thursday. But you guys won&#39;t be there, so who cares?&quot; (Laughs)</p>&mdash; Sal Capaccio (@SalSports) <a href="https://twitter.com/SalSports/status/636211825093292032">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here comes EJ in with the ones</p>&mdash; Joe Buscaglia (@JoeBuscaglia) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBuscaglia/status/636203625325314048">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">EJ Manuel has not taken any first-team reps today. It&#39;s been all Cassel and Taylor</p>&mdash; Joe Buscaglia (@JoeBuscaglia) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBuscaglia/status/636202504053592064">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Final first-team QB reps tally for today: Cassel: 18 Taylor: 15 Manuel: 6 (rest were scout team)</p>&mdash; Mike Rodak (@mikerodak) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/636207317323661312">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>




<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So far in today&#39;s practice I have Cassel with 12 first-team reps, Taylor with 10 and Manuel with 1. Rest of EJ&#39;s reps with scout team.</p>&mdash; Mike Rodak (@mikerodak) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/636201976808763392">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sooooo not way behind huh ?? He got 1/3 of Cassel's reps and less than half of Taylor's. I'm not sure you know what behind really means.



And don't even bring up the last 2 years when it comes to Cassel, much less the last 4 years. He'd aspire to be as "toast" as you fancy EJ is.

Ok, whatever you say champ. Then toast Cassel is ahead of EJ. Is that not enough for you ??

[Victor7]

Joe... The only reason any of us think EJ should have been allowed to have the whole season (and it's been stated very clearly many times by quite a few of us) was for his development and the Bills assessment. Ultimately that is best for the franchise in the long run... Sorta gets us off the merry-go-round so to speak. Truth is that we'll more than likely need to go thru that same 2-3year process with a drafted QB in the future... So we may as well lean to be patient in the event that EJ or TT don't work out.

Very few of us have stated that EJ was better statistically than Orton... Although the possibility, however remote, was there for EJ to ultimately have a better (if he developed) 2014 than Orton did.

I think the problem you're having is that you are attributing all pro EJ poster comments (obnoxious or otherwise) to each individual EJ poster. It's an easy thing to have happen.

With some guys you don't really need a large sample of games to asses them. EJ falls into that category. His inaccuracy issues have been evident from day one. You don't need to see him misfire throws to open receivers for 16 games to know its beyond hope.

I understand your post and think it applies to some cases. Just not EJ's.

[swiper]

So, Joe, you point out that the coaches have bailed on Manuel. The EJ-lovers are turning another blind eye? Not surprising.

[swiper]

With some guys you don't really need a large sample of games to asses them. EJ falls into that category. His inaccuracy issues have been evident from day one. You don't need to see him misfire throws to open receivers for 16 games to know its beyond hope.

I understand your post and think it applies to some cases. Just not EJ's.

More blind Manuel-love.

[Goobylal]

Its dumb anyway. We were in it until almost the end. EJ had no business playing. Its very simple really.
Once Orton started playing like crap, it was over. Then they had to start all over at the QB position, bringing in a journeyman who hasn't played well or stayed healthy in 4 years (shades of Kevin Kolb, and we all saw how that worked out!) and a guy who had barely played and when he did play, didn't look so good. But hey, they brought them in while they inherited EJ.


But he will. Trust me. And if he's not it'll be Taylor. Certainly not Manuel. And he's not getting cut. I'll bet that one with you if you are so sure. Rex won't go into the season with that little experience at the position
Obviously EJ isn't going to start. They barely gave him starting reps until recently so they've pigeonholed themselves into having to go with one of the other guys.



hahaha ok

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rex in response to EJ not getting same 1st team reps: "We'll see how it goes Thursday. But you guys won't be there, so who cares?" (Laughs)</p>— Sal Capaccio (@SalSports) <a href="https://twitter.com/SalSports/status/636211825093292032">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Here comes EJ in with the ones</p>— Joe Buscaglia (@JoeBuscaglia) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBuscaglia/status/636203625325314048">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">EJ Manuel has not taken any first-team reps today. It's been all Cassel and Taylor</p>— Joe Buscaglia (@JoeBuscaglia) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoeBuscaglia/status/636202504053592064">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Final first-team QB reps tally for today:

Cassel: 18
Taylor: 15
Manuel: 6 (rest were scout team)</p>— Mike Rodak (@mikerodak) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/636207317323661312">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>




<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">So far in today's practice I have Cassel with 12 first-team reps, Taylor with 10 and Manuel with 1. Rest of EJ's reps with scout team.</p>— Mike Rodak (@mikerodak) <a href="https://twitter.com/mikerodak/status/636201976808763392">August 25, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sooooo not way behind huh ?? He got 1/3 of Cassel's reps and less than half of Taylor's. I'm not sure you know what behind really means.
I find Ryan's bolded comments interesting.


Ok, whatever you say champ. Then toast Cassel is ahead of EJ. Is that not enough for you ??
It's enough for me to have major concerns over their decision-making. If Cassel had been a good starting QB who could stay healthy and was on a multi-year deal, I could see going with him. Since he's none of those things, it makes zero sense to waste time with him starting.

[The Jokeman]

Once Orton started playing like crap, it was over. Then they had to start all over at the QB position, bringing in a journeyman who hasn't played well or stayed healthy in 4 years (shades of Kevin Kolb, and we all saw how that worked out!) and a guy who had barely played and when he did play, didn't look so good. But hey, they brought them in while they inherited EJ.


Obviously EJ isn't going to start. They barely gave him starting reps until recently so they've pigeonholed themselves into having to go with one of the other guys.


I find Ryan's bolded comments interesting.


It's enough for me to have major concerns over their decision-making. If Cassel had been a good starting QB who could stay healthy and was on a multi-year deal, I could see going with him. Since he's none of those things, it makes zero sense to waste time with him starting.
Yet Cassel is our most proven NFL QB we have. That should count for something. I say that even as an EJ guy as feels like EJ getting the cold shoulder by Rex and co with his practice time this week and so far practice time has equated to play time in games. This tells me Cassel is the guy we're leaning toward but think Tyrod has a chance to over take the position IF and only IF he outplays Cassel against Pittsburgh as imagine both will get a shot with first teamers this weekend.

[Goobylal]

Yet Cassel is our most proven NFL QB we have. That should count for something. I say that even as an EJ guy as feels like EJ getting the cold shoulder by Rex and co with his practice time this week and so far practice time has equated to play time in games. This tells me Cassel is the guy we're leaning toward but think Tyrod has a chance to over take the position IF and only IF he outplays Cassel against Pittsburgh as imagine both will get a shot with first teamers this weekend.
I understand what you're saying Jokeman, but in the 7 years since he first started a game, Cassel has had just 2 good seasons, the last one being in 2010. The rest have been bad +/- injury-marred. When you say he's the "most proven," he's proven to be mostly a bad and injury-prone QB. And he wasn't even the Bills' first (and maybe not even 2nd, or third, etc.) choice for a veteran QB. To hope he suddenly recreates 2010 is asking a lot and setting yourself up for disappointment. I mean, it's not like the Chefs and Vikes didn't give him every chance to be their franchise QB. So even if Taylor is a little worse than Cassel, you play him because he's not going to get better by not playing, and he's not played for most of his career.

[JoeMama]

I'll say it again -- and I promise this will be the last time.

All three QB's are doing some nice things in camp and the preseason games.

I find this encouraging.

I have my doubts EJ will win the job since neither Pegula or Ryan are invested in EJ as he's a holdover from a previous regime... but if Cassel or Taylor flame out, I do think EJ has done enough to earn the third roster spot at QB. I think that's a fair assessment given his body of work over the last few weeks.

And I still insist he's a better option than Matt Simms and I'm always in favor of keeping your best players. Not a fan of Jets bottom feeders taking up space on our roster just because Rex is overly attached to his previous bad teams.

EJ will get his chance if things go south for this team and we'll see if he can make strides in his third season. If not, I expect he won't be around in 2016.

[JoeMama]

And for the record, any beef I appear to have with EJ isn't really about EJ, it's more about his militant fans from last season who insisted he was our best QB at the time, which he clearly wasn't. It's a year old grievance that I'm willing to move on from.

I think EJ's a good kid with some good qualities. He just needs to work harder to become accurate and consistent. A tall order, to be sure, but stranger things have happened (see Donovan McNabb early in his career).

So let the season begin already so we can get this bull**** behind us.

[Goobylal]

I'll say it again -- and I promise this will be the last time.

All three QB's are doing some nice things in camp and the preseason games.

I find this encouraging.

I have my doubts EJ will win the job since neither Pegula or Ryan are invested in EJ as he's a holdover from a previous regime... but if Cassel or Taylor flame out, I do think EJ has done enough to earn the third roster spot at QB. I think that's a fair assessment given his body of work over the last few weeks.

And I still insist he's a better option than Matt Simms and I'm always in favor of keeping your best players. Not a fan of Jets bottom feeders taking up space on our roster just because Rex is overly attached to his previous bad teams.

EJ will get his chance if things go south for this team and we'll see if he can make strides in his third season. If not, I expect he won't be around in 2016.


And for the record, any beef I appear to have with EJ isn't really about EJ, it's more about his militant fans from last season who insisted he was our best QB at the time, which he clearly wasn't. It's a year old grievance that I'm willing to move on from.

I think EJ's a good kid with some good qualities. He just needs to work harder to become accurate and consistent. A tall order, to be sure, but stranger things have happened (see Donovan McNabb early in his career).

So let the season begin already so we can get this bull**** behind us.
Fair enough. Getting rid of EJ would be idiotic because Cassel hasn't proven he can stay healthy, Taylor's running makes him an injury risk as well, and Simms just isn't that good.

As for playing EJ last year, those pushing for him playing the whole year were looking long-term, not short term. Orton, like Cassel, isn't and never will be a franchise guy. So you maybe win a few more games but still never know what you may have waiting in the wings.

[JoeMama]

Fair enough. Getting rid of EJ would be idiotic because Cassel hasn't proven he can stay healthy, Taylor's running makes him an injury risk as well, and Simms just isn't that good.

As for playing EJ last year, those pushing for him playing the whole year were looking long-term, not short term. Orton, like Cassel, isn't and never will be a franchise guy. So you maybe win a few more games but still never know what you may have waiting in the wings.

I was talking a little Bills football today with my pops and he's a big EJ fan.

So as we got into the current QB situation, I explained your sentiment in the first paragraph as I spoke with him. That seemed to make him happy being the EJ guy that he is.

1) Cassel may get yanked at some point during the season since it's been a long time since he's put together a good couple of years at the helm, so having a third QB on the roster is just smart.

2) Taylor, for all the positives he's been showing, is a still primarily a flashy running QB and those types tend to be injury prone as the tackles add up.

3) So given what we know of those two, who may well be viable starters, it's the right thing to do to keep EJ around as an insurance policy, because frankly Matt Simms doesn't bring as much to the table as EJ. Even though accuracy and consistency are big issues with EJ, we have seen him show good leadership qualities and some clutch play. So it doesn't make sense to cut him loose in year three. Let's see how he does then revisit his future in Buffalo next year. He's not devoid of positives of his own so I see no reason to dump him in favor of a career third stringer without much success under his belt.

EJ frustrates me pretty often, but I have a feeling Simms would frustrate me more if we ever needed him to take the field for any extended period of time.

[Mike]

The reasons we delusional EJ supporters are bullish on EJ is simple...
1) EJ's College stats > both Cassel and TT.

EJ played for one of the best coaches in College football on an FSU team that was loaded & one of the best. Unfortunately, he held the team back so much so that after he left, a freshman QB won helped FSU win the Championship.

His is stats are bloated the same way Matt Lienart's stats were bloated.

2) EJ's NFL stats > both Cassel and TT.

Cassel actual went to a Pro Bowl once upon a time and lead his team to 11 wins.
EJ & TT haven't proven anything in this league.

3) EJ's 2015 preseason stats > both Cassel and TT.

According to PFF all 3 Bills QBs were in the top 10 statistically. If this mattered I'm sure we could trade one of these guys an underperforming Rogers or Wilson or even Wnston...

....BUT... Fact is the preseason doesn't really matter (especially when your playing against 3rd stringers)


4) Consequently EJ's floor > both Cassel and TT.

Your clearly not a scout.... If EJ's floor was higher than the other 2 guys wouldn't be here.

They are here precisely because his floor is so low.


5) EJ's ceiling > Cassel and arguably TT.

Cassel is what he is. TT is a mystery and EJ is the second coming of JP Losman


Forget about Orton... These are the 3 who are competing for #1-#3 Bill QB... Therefore, these are the 3 we're comparing.


Something to Remember

No QB has lost their starting jobs in their 3rd year to journeyman and went on to be great.

[djjimkelly]

To the EJ homers,

Doesn't it speak volumes that EJ couldn't beat out Kyle Orton, a career journeyman who joined the team late?

And now EJ can't beat out another journeyman in Cassel and a guy who hasn't started a single NFL game.

Common, your 1st round QB -in his 3rd year- should at least be able to hold onto his job vs 2 nobodies!

look this year there may be better options then EJ and im 100000000% fine with that i will cheer them on i love the bills!!!

but with EJ not being able to beat out orton as an argument. when we all agree coach marrone was a fool. u cant argue that both ways. if marrone was a fool in your opinion then all his decisions should be questioned.

there will never be a moment where i think orton was a better overall option then EJ. there will never a point where i think edwards was a better option then losman. and there will not be a point where i think flutie was a better option then johnson.

however all this being said in ALLLLLLLL those circumstances and our CURRENT circumstance the QBs are all subpar.

and to people questioning mine or other peoples football knowledge is laughable. your not a coach and neither am i. but ive had sunday ticket for more then 20 years and seen my fair share of excellent qb play. ive also seen the bills offensive schemes and qbs our brass has chosen. we basically havent run a real nfl offense for a real long time. i guess gailey and fitz where nfl level sort of. but before that we have to go back to the mularky era.

[djjimkelly]

That's probably our biggest area of disagreement.

I refuse to throw the towel in on an entire season for the sake of coddling one quarterback. We were damn close to being a playoff team and enjoyed our first winning season in over a decade. We fell just short but it was the right thing to do.

EJ Manuel, as we all knew, was and is a project. There was no need to let him start in season two, especially after his confidence was shattered and his accuracy was in complete ruins after only 4 short games.

The kid wasn't ready.

Football is about playing to win now unless you're in full-on rebuilding mode, which we were not last season.

and see this is where OUR franchises true problems lay nobody has been willing to coddle a qb here EVER. even when we **** the bed post RJ/flutie era we have never taken our lumps to truly let a guy learn.

that being said we havent been smart with our picks either or we had bad luck 4th pick becomes mike williams(useless) and no qb to pick at that spot. we get the 8th pick draft whitner once again no qb worth taking. the dareus year(ok thank god hes a stud) once again no qb to take.

we have refused to take our lumps and for the 20th years in a row we dont have a true unquestioned #1 qb

[Mike]

look this year there may be better options then EJ and im 100000000% fine with that i will cheer them on i love the bills!!!

but with EJ not being able to beat out orton as an argument. when we all agree coach marrone was a fool. u cant argue that both ways. if marrone was a fool in your opinion then all his decisions should be questioned.

there will never be a moment where i think orton was a better overall option then EJ. there will never a point where i think edwards was a better option then losman. and there will not be a point where i think flutie was a better option then johnson.

however all this being said in ALLLLLLLL those circumstances and our CURRENT circumstance the QBs are all subpar.

and to people questioning mine or other peoples football knowledge is laughable. your not a coach and neither am i. but ive had sunday ticket for more then 20 years and seen my fair share of excellent qb play. ive also seen the bills offensive schemes and qbs our brass has chosen. we basically havent run a real nfl offense for a real long time. i guess gailey and fitz where nfl level sort of. but before that we have to go back to the mularky era.


You have clearly made up your mind and you don't want to be confused by the facts.

[djjimkelly]

You have clearly made up your mind and you don't want to be confused by the facts.

if facts are ortons and ejs #s from last year
come on orton 15 year journeyman nothing about him above average.

EJ who was 2-2 and to me 2-2 or 7-5 the win% is roughly the same.

the numbers between the qbs were not that different orton was completely one dimensional qb EJ is what he is a raw piece of clay with attributes. and a chance to run a real playbook(physically yes mentally not yet) i take the gamble on the young guy

the problem was the coach. and like ive said we might have better options this year then orton or EJ and id be fine with that.



and how about this lets not talk orton anymore please. :) no one and i mean no one 3 years from now will ever reminisce about the bills 12 games with uncle rico