IF EJ was picked in the 3rd round

[trapezeus]

for the Anti-EJ crowd or pro-Cassel crowd, if EJ was picked in the 3rd round his draft year, had the current 14 starts he has now and was 3rd on the depth chart , would you feel more comfortable with his performance YTD?

the only reason i ask is that it becomes evident that the bills reached for EJ. There were the stories at the time that the cowboys had EJ pegged for the 4th round. so it's not really his fault that he isn't the elite talent that our selection suggested he might be.

in the scenario where he was picked later, would you feel comfortable with him being a backup or even simply on the roster?

as for tyrod, what happens if he happened to be drafted too early and you saw his current performance. would you think he is showing enough to be a starter. are we getting excited simply because he is a nobody and showing some flashes of being a starter? Would that make it more palatable to have him start ahead of cassel

I'm just trying to make sense of draft positioning and how it shapes our views.

[WagonCircler]

for the Anti-EJ crowd or pro-Cassel crowd, if EJ was picked in the 3rd round his draft year, had the current 14 starts he has now and was 3rd on the depth chart , would you feel more comfortable with his performance YTD?

the only reason i ask is that it becomes evident that the bills reached for EJ. There were the stories at the time that the cowboys had EJ pegged for the 4th round. so it's not really his fault that he isn't the elite talent that our selection suggested he might be.

in the scenario where he was picked later, would you feel comfortable with him being a backup or even simply on the roster?

as for tyrod, what happens if he happened to be drafted too early and you saw his current performance. would you think he is showing enough to be a starter. are we getting excited simply because he is a nobody and showing some flashes of being a starter? Would that make it more palatable to have him start ahead of cassel

I'm just trying to make sense of draft positioning and how it shapes our views.

Had EJ been picked in the third round, he would have been cut already. The fact that he was picked in the first has totally impeded the Bills from finding a real starting QB. He's only still here because Whaley wants to save face so badly and won't admit that EJ is a total bust.

[Buffalogic]

Doesn't matter where he was picked, results are the same.

[GreedoII]

Had EJ been picked in the third round, he would have been cut already. The fact that he was picked in the first has totally impeded the Bills from finding a real starting QB. He's only still here because Whaley wants to save face so badly and won't admit that EJ is a total bust.


I still believe it's Nix's guy and not Whaley. Nix was the GM and made the pick with the blessing of that d-bag Russ Brandon.

[Victor7]

He'd probably not be on our roster if that was the case. Management would've had no issues letting go of a 3rd round developmental player.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Obviously all can say what they will and dismiss what they want... But if EJ's 14 game (year 1 + 2) stats are projected for 16 games, he would have finished 21st in yards (3,211) and 19th in TD's (18) last season. Given these facts, I don't know how anyone can claim he simply stinks.

[swiper]

I still believe it's Nix's guy and not Whaley. Nix was the GM and made the pick with the blessing of that d-bag Russ Brandon.

Perhaps this article needs to be posted again.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000204027/article/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-integral-in-ej-manuel-pick

- - - Updated - - -


Obviously all can say what they will and dismiss what they want... But if EJ's 14 game (year 1 + 2) stats are projected for 16 games, he would have finished 21st in yards (3,211) and 19th in TD's (18) last season. Given these facts, I don't know how anyone can claim he simply stinks.


Maybe that cameraman he nailed the other day could.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If EJ was picked in the 3rd, I agree that people would see him for what he is: an extremely athletic project QB. The first round label brings first round expectations. He would not have been the opening day starter two years in a row.

[EDS]

I think EJ is a fine backup QB. Where he was drafted would not change my view on that. Problem is that the Bills still need a franchise QB.

[sukie]

I think EJ is a fine backup QB. Where he was drafted would not change my view on that. Problem is that the Bills still need a franchise QB.

Interesting... Many here feel that the Bills will get a franchise player by NOT playing anyone that isn't 30 or older at QB and the franchise QB will magically appear and wave a wand... poof - franchise QB.

[GreedoII]

Perhaps this article needs to be posted again.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000204027/article/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-integral-in-ej-manuel-pick

- - - Updated - - -

Don't buy it man..just don't....




Maybe that cameraman he nailed the other day could.

[Typ0]

Had EJ been picked in the third round, he would have been cut already. The fact that he was picked in the first has totally impeded the Bills from finding a real starting QB. He's only still here because Whaley wants to save face so badly and won't admit that EJ is a total bust.

Can't agree with this. Who is this phantom guy we would have gotten? I think they are doing their best to fill the position the right opportunity hasn't been available.

As far as EJ goes....it was Nix pick. He's on record he wanted to find the franchise QB before he left. He saw EJ has the attributes and reached to get him hoping for the best. Manuel was never seen as a franchise prospect unfortunately.

I don't think much about 1st round 2nd round 3rd round stuff ... that's all a $$$ discussion. Some guys overperform others underperform. It's just par for the course and the chances you have to take.

[Mike]

I still believe it's Nix's guy and not Whaley. Nix was the GM and made the pick with the blessing of that d-bag Russ Brandon.

You can believe that all you want but at the end of the day, Whaley stated that he made the pick 100% on ESPN following the draft. He was very clear, authoritative and took fullresponsibility.

[swiper]

As far as EJ goes....it was Nix pick. He's on record he wanted to find the franchise QB before he left. He saw EJ has the attributes and reached to get him hoping for the best. Manuel was never seen as a franchise prospect unfortunately.


Again: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000204027/article/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-integral-in-ej-manuel-pick

Bradham aside, who is the one with the FSU lust?

[Mike]

Can't agree with this. Who is this phantom guy we would have gotten? I think they are doing their best to fill the position the right opportunity hasn't been available.

As far as EJ goes....it was Nix pick. He's on record he wanted to find the franchise QB before he left. He saw EJ has the attributes and reached to get him hoping for the best. Manuel was never seen as a franchise prospect unfortunately.

I don't think much about 1st round 2nd round 3rd round stuff ... that's all a $$$ discussion. Some guys overperform others underperform. It's just par for the course and the chances you have to take.

Bills would have probably drafted a QB last year instead of Watkins and still had their 1st round pick this year.
We might have Johnny Football, Bridgewater or Carr.

[WagonCircler]

Perhaps this article needs to be posted again.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000204027/article/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-integral-in-ej-manuel-pick.

"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said on NFL Network's "NFL Total Access" on Thursday. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

[Night Train]

If someone indicates they like a certain guy ( ex. I like Taylor ), why does that make me a " hater " of the other choices ?

Keep all 3. Depth is needed and keep an open eye out for final cuts...but at QB, that's usually slim pickings. Most teams don't have a really good QB. Only 10-12 teams have someone that is actually a solid frontline starter or so called Franchise QB (although I think that term is way overused).

[trapezeus]

i think if he was a 3rd, he would have still started (assuming they went with tuel and thad after kolbs injury).

for me, i think EJ is a good back up, and a good soldier. no other QB was worth drafting. We didn't totally miss an obvious pick for him (ala the whitner debacle). And i also think whaley has a track record of good defensive acquistions, so it's hard to say he should get fired. but he did stick his neck out for ej after the draft. if he can't get a qb in here on his next try, presuming that he buys time with one of these 3, he'll be gone.

and i didn't post this to rag on EJ. but the love for tyrod is there because he's essentially a nobody. he's a back up elsewhere and a later draft. his basic competency is exciting. however, you take ej who looks less polished, but has better overall athleticism might have some of that excitement if his three year's of limited play didn't look exactly the same.

[Forward_Lateral]

If your aunt had a dick, she'd be your brother

[Bill Cody]

If your aunt had a dick, she'd be your brother

So adding a dick makes you younger?

[trapezeus]

If your aunt had a dick, she'd be your brother

i believe the joke is that it would make her your uncle. why she'd become related to you on a different branch of the tree makes no sense.

[Forward_Lateral]

So adding a dick makes you younger?

I was insinuating incest

- - - Updated - - -


i believe the joke is that it would make her your uncle. why she'd become related to you on a different branch of the tree makes no sense.

I was trying to make fun of you and make a joke at the same time.

[Typ0]

Again: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000204027/article/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-integral-in-ej-manuel-pick

Bradham aside, who is the one with the FSU lust?

That is an issue of professionalism and him taking ownership of his new job.

[SpikedLemonade]

Bills would have probably drafted a QB last year instead of Watkins and still had their 1st round pick this year.
We might have Johnny Football, Bridgewater or Carr.

Probably could have traded down to get another 2nd round pick and still drafted Bridgewater.

That Watkins pick was expensive.

[trapezeus]

Probably could have traded down to get another 2nd round pick and still drafted Bridgewater.

That Watkins pick was expensive.

in some ways that pick was a showing by whaley of how much he wanted to believe in EJ. and going all in on a project with a coach who didn't buy in was a huge price to pay. Who knows who's to blame. but ultimately, if roman can get the ball in watkins hands more and he has a break out season, we'll get over it. if they continue to use him and the rest of the receiving core, sparingly, it could go down as one of the more dubious busts.

watkins is good and very exciting, however, if we aren't going to use him properly, what was the point in paying for him.

[Meathead]

if ej was picked in the third he would be considered still in development bc they would have tried harder to get a veteran after kolb went down. he probably would have played a similar amount to what he has bc he likely wouldnt have got injured and missed games, instead filling in for whoever the veteran starter was

the emotional attachment of being a first rounder makes him a sitting duck for unfair expectations and unrelenting criticism for mistakes. its obvious he has improved at the rate you would expect for someone with his expected growth curve as a development project, but he doesnt have that luxury due to where he was picked

so yeah i think it would make all the difference in the world. im hoping he get the chance to play and takes advantage bc im fearful he will go someplace else and finally emerge as a viable option

[Mr. Pink]

If he was a third round pick, he wouldn't be here anymore.

Or anywhere else for that matter.

[swiper]

That is an issue of professionalism and him taking ownership of his new job.

Umm. No. You're deflecting from the truth right from the horse's mouth.

[swiper]

in some ways that pick was a showing by whaley of how much he wanted to believe in EJ. .

And why would he care if this was Nix's pick? As all the EJ-lovers claim. Manuel was squarely Whaley's desperation pick. And he threw all the **** to the fan to get Watkins. He, who is certainly an excellent player, cannot take away from how good Mariotta and the FSU rapist (http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-yells-****-her-right-in-the-pussy-kil-1635466887) look so far. Both so much more natural than Manuel.

[Typ0]

Umm. No. You're deflecting from the truth right from the horse's mouth.

Not at all. Whaley was groomed to take the job. His taking ownership of the position is part of the process. Put yourself in his shoes. He's got to manage these players. Throwing nix under the bus for the pic would be undermining himself!

[GreedoII]

And why would he care if this was Nix's pick? As all the EJ-lovers claim. Manuel was squarely Whaley's desperation pick. And he threw all the **** to the fan to get Watkins. He, who is certainly an excellent player, cannot take away from how good Mariotta and the FSU rapist (http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-yells-****-her-right-in-the-pussy-kil-1635466887) look so far. Both so much more natural than Manuel.

No it was Nix's farewell failure of of a pick as he left into the sunset finally getting his QB (or forced to pick a QB no matter how bad he was)and then still being employed to watch the mess he created. Wasn't Whaley's pick. It was Whaley's job to defend it to save face for the dope Nix and that sleaze ball Russ Brandon who is the real architect of the mess this team has been in for the last 10 years. Wake up dude...

[swiper]

No it was Nix's farewell failure of of a pick as he left into the sunset finally getting his QB (or forced to pick a QB no matter how bad he was)and then still being employed to watch the mess he created. Wasn't Whaley's pick. It was Whaley's job to defend it to save face for the dope Nix and that sleaze ball Russ Brandon who is the real architect of the mess this team has been in for the last 10 years. Wake up dude...

How soon we forget the picture of Whaley and Marrone arguing. The training camp fight that Brandon had to break up. It was Marrone telling Whaley he wanted Manuel out and Whaley telling him he wanted him in.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bv-k4s_IEAADdIs.jpg

Marrone had that crap QB forced down his throat by Whaley. He fought back, because the player was crap. Whaley gave in and got Orton. Orton turned out to be a wet towel, but got the team to 9-7. Orton and Marrone are gone. The homers and EJ lovers love throwing darts at those two guys, while Whaley and Manuel are still here, both still crappy. The only hope of the Bills matching the 9-7 of 2014 is to have Matt Cassel be what Orton was supposed to be. Otherwise you all should be throwing your darts at Manuel and Whaley come the end of December.

[GreedoII]

How soon we forget the picture of Whaley and Marrone arguing. The training camp fight that Brandon had to break up. It was Marrone telling Whaley he wanted Manuel out and Whaley telling him he wanted him in.




https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bv-k4s_IEAADdIs.jpg

Marrone had that crap QB forced down his throat by Whaley. He fought back, because the player was crap. Whaley gave in and got Orton. Orton turned out to be a wet towel, but got the team to 9-7. Orton and Marrone are gone. The homers and EJ lovers love throwing darts at those two guys, while Whaley and Manuel are still here, both still crappy. The only hope of the Bills matching the 9-7 of 2014 is to have Matt Cassel be what Orton was supposed to be. Otherwise you all should be throwing your darts at Manuel and Whaley come the end of December.




you have no clue what they were arguing about. Who's to say it was Brandon who wanted Whaley to make sure they keep him in play because it was really Nix and Brandon's mistake which it was as well as Brandon's mistake for hiring his Syracuse connection in that tool bag Marrone who turned out to be a loose cannon whack job

[k-oneputt]

Who cares.
If the sun is shining on EJ's ass they will keep him around as a #3.
If he has to play we are done anyways.

[trapezeus]

And why would he care if this was Nix's pick? As all the EJ-lovers claim. Manuel was squarely Whaley's desperation pick. And he threw all the **** to the fan to get Watkins. He, who is certainly an excellent player, cannot take away from how good Mariotta and the FSU rapist (http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-yells-****-her-right-in-the-pussy-kil-1635466887) look so far. Both so much more natural than Manuel.

Organizationally, i can see how it was a nix pick and whaley has to put a good face on it as the inheritor of the gig. especially if he saw eye to eye with nix on a handful of picks. none of us are privy to how it exactly went down inside, but i agree, whaley's public statements were to own the pick. and when he was fully on his own, he went to tool up the receiving for EJ to watch his no stone left unturned coach.

i don't doubt watkins skill, i just think if you weren't really supportive of EJ, you would have tried to help the team elsewhere and maybe take a qb in a later round. instead he left the position bare and settled on a backup a week or two before the regular season.

if EJ was a third round pick, they would have definitely picked a qb during the draft this year as well. not that anyone struck me as amazing from where we were picking.

[feldspar]

The way I look at is that EJ was sort of a bonus pick. The Bills got EJ and Kiko Alonso with the same pick, basically. Then Alonso turned into McCoy. So, at this point we may as well have taken Shady with that first pick.

Also, I don't see any quarterback worthwhile that the Bills passed on as a result of having EJ on the team. Even from the start we picked up Kevin Kolb, then Kyle Orton, and then Matt Cassel and Tyrod Taylor. Seemed like they were never really sold on EJ, and I don't know who they would have otherwise picked up. We could have been developing a Landry Jones or something instead, but it's not like it's easy to find your franchise QB or anything of the sort.

[GreedoII]

The way I look at is that EJ was sort of a bonus pick. The Bills got EJ and Kiko Alonso with the same pick, basically. Then Alonso turned into McCoy. So, at this point we may as we'll have taken Shady with that first pick.

Also, I don't see any quarterback worthwhile that the Bills passed on as a result of having EJ on the team. Even from the start we picked up Kevin Kolb, then Kyle Orton, and then Matt Cassel and Tyrod Taylor. Seemed like they were never really sold on EJ, and I don't know who they would have otherwise picked up. We could have developing a Landry Jones or something instead, but it's not like it's easy to find your franchise QB or anything of the sort.


I'll buy this...thanks for closing out this thread!

[WagonCircler]

The way I look at is that EJ was sort of a bonus pick.

Yes. From the Latin "Bone Us".

[swiper]

Yes. From the Latin "Bone Us".

ROFL.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Also, I don't see any quarterback worthwhile that the Bills passed on as a result of having EJ on the team.

Bridgewater

[Yasgur's Farm]

Yes. From the Latin "Bone Us".Uhmm.. That would be bonimus maximus.

[Buffalogic]

EJ was a terrible pick but at least we moved down a little to draft a bust. We probably would have picked Tavon Austin at number 8 like the Rams did and it would have been even worse because there wouldn't have even been a Kiko consolation prize.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

EJ was a terrible pick but at least we moved down a little to draft a bust. We probably would have picked Tavon Austin at number 8 like the Rams did and it would have been even worse because there wouldn't have even been a Kiko consolation prize.

That 2013 first round was a bust fiesta. Not a lot of standouts really. Richardson, Ansah, Lotuleilei, Hopkins, and Frederick are the only stars, and both Ansah and Frederick were pretty risky picks at the time.

[feldspar]

Bridgewater

Well, that's like your opinion, man.