BN: Doug Whaley Went Rogue Cutting Fred Jackson

[DraftBoy]

Per Tim Graham on Twitter...


Bills organization will remain unified when speaking publicly, but two sources tell me Doug Whaley went rogue in cutting Fred Jackson.

What...the...****...?

[DraftBoy]

Tyler Dunne (also of BN) has confirmed (kinda) Graham's report saying he has also heard a version of this story and that Whaley hasn't been a Jackson guy for a while.


Heard a version of what @ByTimGraham just tweeted. Whaley hasn't been a Jackson guy for a while.

[DraftBoy]

Sure sounds like a fracture has emerged if somebody in the FO or Coaching Staff is going to sell out Whaley to the media.

[ublinkwescore]

Let's not talk about this any more on the internet, if we do, the media will talk about it and it can lead to a distraction for the locker room.

[BertSquirtgum]

Stupid Doug Whaley. Big big stupid head

[Luisito23]

:yawn:...Bunch of he said, she said garbage...

Nothing to see here, move on...

[Goobylal]

Yeah and they had sources saying Cassel would start, and instead he'll soon be cut.

[Skooby]

Cassel isn't starting and FJ is old, so what else is there to know ?

[YardRat]

So Whaley wants to win with 'his guys', regardless of the value of any holdovers? Interesting.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe that's why Chandler was dumped also.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

So Whaley wants to win with 'his guys', regardless of the value of any holdovers? Interesting.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe that's why Chandler was dumped also.


I dont like this move but I feel like every coach and gm does this and gets rid of the previous regime to go with 'their guy'

[Jimkelly12203]

You have to admit that it's an interesting rumor.

We mustn't forget that there was a time (not long ago at all) when T-Pegs was evidently trying to court Bill Polian. And what could such courtship have been other than an effort to replace Whaley?

Add in the fact that Whaley was the driving force behind the trade for Bryce Brown and... yeah it kind of makes some sense.

That being said, Rex Ryan is the most powerful person in this organization right now. If he truly wanted to keep Jackson AND was willing to sell out Whaley and second guess his decision making to the boss he could have done so.

But that's just the thing. Who wants to start their relationship with the GM that way? Especially given Rex's tortured past with incompetent Jets GMs.

[YardRat]

I dont like this move but I feel like every coach and gm does this and gets rid of the previous regime to go with 'their guy'

To a certain point, yes. It also wouldn't be that unusual for a new regime to supplant the old leadership in favor of new. Reeks of insecurity, though. If FJ was a 'mud-raker' or 'trouble-maker' type leader, I could understand it, but he's a 'team' guy all the way regardless of who the head coach or GM is. A good administrator knows how to utilize those qualities, not jettison them.

[DraftBoy]

More to the story now...

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/09/bills_gm_doug_whaley_reportedly_went_rogue_cutting_fred_jackson.html


@Fred22Jackson on GM Doug Whaley: "There’s only one person in that organization that I haven’t gotten honesty from, and that was him.”

[BillsImpossible]

Stupid Doug Whaley. Big big stupid head

Stop self projecting.

You blame everyone else for your own faults, BS.

Look in the freaking mirror, loser.

[BillsImpossible]

More to the story now...

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/09/bills_gm_doug_whaley_reportedly_went_rogue_cutting_fred_jackson.html

There's nothing more to the story.

Karlos Williams outperformed Fred Jackson and he costs a hell of a lot less.

End of story.

[YardRat]

More to the story now...

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/09/bills_gm_doug_whaley_reportedly_went_rogue_cutting_fred_jackson.html

OK, I've given Whaley the benefit of the doubt for the most part and defended most of his moves (up until the drunken spending spree on tinker toys this off season), but if that's the case he is officially dead to me.

[DraftBoy]

OK, I've given Whaley the benefit of the doubt for the most part and defended most of his moves (up until the drunken spending spree on tinker toys this off season), but if that's the case he is officially dead to me.

I've been a Whaley guy as well, but I can't support all of this if it's true.

[Night Train]

Then Pegula will fire him, since he said in the spring Fred was staying, right ?

i really could care less what Graham has to say.

[Mace]

I don't feel too bad saying I'm not sold on Whaley, rumors or not. Regardless of whether or not Jackson has any game left, and I think that speaks for itself, they've been in a hurry to get rid of him without finding out. I mean he obviously still has some game, he ran for 41 last round, and caught 66 passes last year whether or not people like it.

Ryan himself said the team is not better for getting rid of him, which is kind of pretty stupid for a coach with a rep for effort players striving to make his team better, to say.

Wouldn't really surprise me if Whaley is madly struggling to impress suits he's not impressing with his dozy mellow.

I also don't see why Ryan wouldn't want a supposed obvious Ryan fierce guy, or why the rumors are slipping out that Jackson just wanted to stay and retire here and they didn't give him a chance.

Unless it all comes down to dozy mellow "it's all good" Whaley.

Just imho, Graham has connections and doesn't say too much stupid stuff when he says anything.

I just don't see Whaley being any kind of genius during his big chance to be competent as a GM.

Always looks like he's trying too hard if always tranquilized to me.

[DraftBoy]

Then Pegula will fire him, since he said in the spring Fred was staying, right ?

i really could care less what Graham has to say.

Not just Graham saying it anymore.

[djjimkelly]

jackson is 34 the organization wanted to go a different route i get it.

this shouldnt be a story fred was solid in an era of bad bills football. and now the organization with a new staff wants to do something else so be it

no story here

[BertSquirtgum]

Stop self projecting.

You blame everyone else for your own faults, BS.

Look in the freaking mirror, loser.

What the **** are you talking about ricky ******o?

Anybody that isn't ******ed knows I've supported Whaley from the beginning.

[BillsImpossible]

Get over it.

[BillsImpossible]

What the **** are you talking about ricky ******o?

Anybody that isn't ******ed knows I've supported Whaley from the beginning.

You are one of the most negative ****s on this board.

Your time is coming to an end.

Get used to winning, loser.

[ct bills fan]

Perhaps Rex wasn't exactly in favor of this. He blatantly s lookays "we are not a better team without Fred."

[BertSquirtgum]

You are one of the most negative ****s on this board.

Your time is coming to an end.

Get used to winning, loser.

Again, what the **** are you talking about ricky ******o? I'm an homer until the jet crashes in the middle of the season like it has the past 15 years. Try not to be dumb all of your life.

[Oaf]

We'll never really know. I just wish Fred was still on the team.

[bleve]

Whaley certainly looked uncomfortable during the announcement. That could be because he's naturally like that, or something else...

[Meathead]

i heard the bills chefs daughters baby is an alien planted by whaley who is a shape shifter

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/57853423.jpg

[Jimkelly12203]

sI have a theory. And it's nothing more than that; a THEORY. An interesting (and i think sensible) piece of speculation.

What if, this report is true and Whaley went rogue cutting F-Jax?

Now even if Rex wasn't 100% in love with keeping Jackson, you have to figure that he at least understood (better than anyone as the former Jets HC) how bad it would make him look if Fred was cut. That is to say, even if Rex could live with Fred or without Fred on the roster, when he took the job i can't imagine he thought the guy would be gone. And i'm sure he was fine with keeping him.

Whaley controls the 53. Rex controls the players that play.

Isn't it possible that Whaley really did go rogue here and create a PR disaster? A disaster that some have blamed Rex - the most powerful person in the organization right now, job descriptions aside - for making himself?

If Whaley really did do this as a use of his power as GM without the consent of all other parties. Then maybe the Tyrod announcement that same day wasn't a pre-planned piece of damage control. Maybe it was Rex saying to Whaley, "ok you want to make me look bad by cutting this legendary player, i'll trash your dumb first round QB and the QB you traded for by exercising my power (over who plays) and name Tyrod"

It's RAMPANT speculation on my part. But it makes some sense.

There have been a number of dubious leaks in the past associated with this organization. Doug Marone may be a POS, but he could just be a brash ass-hole that didn't like Whaley's decisions either.

It is at least possible.

And again... T-Pegs tried to replace Whaley with Bill Polian not even 6 months ago... It is at least a good possibility that not everyone is in agreement these days. The kumbaya T-Pegs era may have some fissures at the top ranks.

In any event. Assuming Rex and Whaley even have fundamental disagreements at this point, i can't imagine Rex would want to start off his "last chance" by instigating yet another GM/HC power struggle. He had enough of them in NY.

[BillsImpossible]

Again, what the **** are you talking about ricky ******o? I'm an homer until the jet crashes in the middle of the season like it has the past 15 years. Try not to be dumb all of your life.

You're a loser, baby.

Your time is over.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YgSPaXgAdzE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I cannot imagine how a GM could think he could cut a fan favorite over the objections of both the head coach and owner and get away with it. Either this story is bunk or he's trying to get fired.

[Jimkelly12203]

I cannot imagine how a GM could think he could cut a fan favorite over the objections of both the head coach and owner and get away with it. Either this story is bunk or he's trying to get fired.

That is sensible. I'll give you that. But there are ego-maniacs out there.

And even absent that, wouldn't you be inclined to protect the decisions you've made? I'm sure Whaley thought that this was the right move. Objectively and in the name of the franchise. Doesn't mean he was right about that.

But don't forget he traded for Bryce Brown. And for Cassel (who is now possibly going to get cut).

We all naturally (and without malice) do things that would be in furtherance of our past decisions.

This FJ cut nonsense hasn't gone over particularly well. It has made Rex look bad. Hell it's made them all look bad.

it is not inconceivable that there is compartmentalized damage control going on here in the form of leaks and exercises of job-description-level power.

What i simply cannot believe (not in a million years) is that the powers that be all sat down and decided cutting Fred Jackson was the way to go. I refuse to believe it because it makes no sense.

[BillsImpossible]

Sentimental bologna has gotten the Bills nowhere since everyone here was born.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That is sensible. I'll give you that. But there are ego-maniacs out there.

And even absent that, wouldn't you be inclined to protect the decisions you've made? I'm sure Whaley thought that this was the right move. Objectively and in the name of the franchise. Doesn't mean he was right about that.

But don't forget he traded for Bryce Brown. And for Cassel (who is now possibly going to get cut).

We all naturally (and without malice) do things that would be in furtherance of our past decisions.

This FJ cut nonsense hasn't gone over particularly well. It has made Rex look bad. Hell it's made them all look bad.

it is not inconceivable that there is compartmentalized damage control going on here in the form of leaks and exercises of job-description-level power.

What i simply cannot believe (not in a million years) is that the powers that be all sat down and decided cutting Fred Jackson was the way to go. I refuse to believe it because it makes no sense.

Whaley has backed off his decisions before. He signed Chris Williams - cut. He traded for Mike Williams - cut. He signed Kevin Kolb - cut. He dealt away Kiko Alonso. He's already cut one of his midround draft picks in Ross Cockrell. Hell, even Matt Cassel is coming in to potentially supplant his/Nix's first round pick at QB. I don't really see Whaley as a guy who doubles down on his past.

The only way Doug makes this move is if he's got the support of other elements of the staff or owners, or he wants to get fired to collect on his contract. There's no way he throws a hand grenade at his career to protect his trade for Bryce Brown. Come on now.

[Jimkelly12203]

Whaley has backed off his decisions before. He signed Chris Williams - cut. He traded for Mike Williams - cut. He signed Kevin Kolb - cut. He dealt away Kiko Alonso. He's already cut one of his midround draft picks in Ross Cockrell. Hell, even Matt Cassel is coming in to potentially supplant his/Nix's first round pick at QB. I don't really see Whaley as a guy who doubles down on his past.

The only way Doug makes this move is if he's got the support of other elements of the staff or owners, or he wants to get fired to collect on his contract. There's no way he throws a hand grenade at his career to protect his trade for Bryce Brown. Come on now.

Also fair. But how many bad moves (and there absolutely have been as many good ones) does a man want to absorb?

It just seems like a mindless analytics decision through and through. It would positively shock me if a majority of the brain trust was in agreement on this move.

[BillsImpossible]

Also fair. But how many bad moves (and there absolutely have been as many good ones) does a man want to absorb?

It just seems like a mindless analytics decision through and through. It would positively shock me if a majority of the brain trust was in agreement on this move.

He's 34 F'ng years old!!!!

Stop the nonsense.

All good things must come to an end.

Life happens.

[DesertFox24]

This came down to finances and nothing more. Karlos passed him on depth chart and they did not want to pay 2 million to a guy who would potentially be inactive for games since no special teams ability.

I love Fred and he was up there with Stevie for me but Ralph also let Reed Thomas and smith walk.

[BertSquirtgum]

You're a loser, baby.

Your time is over.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDS_SDkWIAAHfWz.jpg

[OpIv37]

What does "going rogue" mean? If it means he defied the Pegulas, good. Ralph meddled. Al Davis meddled. Daniel Snyder still meddles and they all have **** results to show for it.

If he went rogue against coaches and personnel guys, that's different. It could be a case of a leader making an unpopular but necessary decision- time will tell on that. Or it could be an egomaniac doing what he wants despite the advice of experts who are closer to the situation, which is scary.

[TakingItuptheChin]

He's 34 F'ng years old!!!!

Stop the nonsense.

All good things must come to an end.

Life happens.

34 must be really old to a 12 year old transvestite llike you. John Riggins was around 34 when he carried his Redskins team to win a Super Bowl.

[Oaf]

Also fair. But how many bad moves (and there absolutely have been as many good ones) does a man want to absorb?

It just seems like a mindless analytics decision through and through. It would positively shock me if a majority of the brain trust was in agreement on this move.

Rex has been pretty anti-Bryce. Can't imagine Whaley propping him over Jackson w/o Rex's take, I guess.

[HHURRICANE]

Did anyone actually read the article? It's hilarious. It might be the most speculative piece of journalism I have ever seen. Using Rex Ryan's press conference to validate some ficticous rift. Rex blinked twice when asked about Fred a secret sign he wanted to keep him.

A sucker born every minute. Whaley went "rogue" because he didn't want to pay a constantly hurt 34 year old running back 2 million dollars more that what the market was worth and he's trying to get some money in the till to pay a 25 year old super star that has a 10 year career ahead of him.

[JoeMama]

More to the story now...

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/09/bills_gm_doug_whaley_reportedly_went_rogue_cutting_fred_jackson.html


@Fred22Jackson on GM Doug Whaley: "There’s only one person in that organization that I haven’t gotten honesty from, and that was him.”

Look, if this is a truth-telling contest, I'm taking Freddie's word for it.

Every. Time.

Dude's as high character as they come. I have no cause to doubt his veracity or his sincerity.

Doug Whaley on the other hand strikes me as a tale spinner, much like his serpentine protégé Russ Brandon.

[Meathead]

when this kind of stuff happens ѕhits always gonna get spun like somebody went soap opera bc the sheeple eat that kinda stuff up. in reality doug and the pegs and rexy are sitting there loling as how dumb the fans are

yes cutting the oldest rb in the nfl who already is having hammy problems this preseason is 'going rogue'. whats next, is cutting bryce brown going to be 'going commando'? is putting goodwin on ir gonna be 'going rambo'?. i suppose ordering a pizza sub for lunch is 'going goodfellas'. whaleys a baaaad dude man, he might 'go powerpuff girls' next

[Forward_Lateral]

Whaley is taking the heat for Rex.

[YardRat]

The only thing worse than the actual act of cutting Freddie is if it wasn't a decision supported by the entire organization.

As far as 'Whaley controls the 53, Rex gets them on Sundays', that's a piss-poor business model for professional sports. If they aren't working together this early, the relationship is screwed already.

The move makes zero sense from a football/competitive/talent standpoint...the only rationalization for it would be needing money...like right now...to re-sign Dareus.

[alohabillsfan]

Ok here is how it actually works! FJ was a revered player, by the community, fans and his teammates! The team is upset and someone has to take the heat! If your the owner do you want players and fans pissed at the head coach? No! You need someone to take that heat that isn't as detrimental to the locker room, enter the GM and the "leaks".!

[coastal]

sI have a theory. And it's nothing more than that; a THEORY. An interesting (and i think sensible) piece of speculation.

What if, this report is true and Whaley went rogue cutting F-Jax?

Now even if Rex wasn't 100% in love with keeping Jackson, you have to figure that he at least understood (better than anyone as the former Jets HC) how bad it would make him look if Fred was cut. That is to say, even if Rex could live with Fred or without Fred on the roster, when he took the job i can't imagine he thought the guy would be gone. And i'm sure he was fine with keeping him.

Whaley controls the 53. Rex controls the players that play.

Isn't it possible that Whaley really did go rogue here and create a PR disaster? A disaster that some have blamed Rex - the most powerful person in the organization right now, job descriptions aside - for making himself?

If Whaley really did do this as a use of his power as GM without the consent of all other parties. Then maybe the Tyrod announcement that same day wasn't a pre-planned piece of damage control. Maybe it was Rex saying to Whaley, "ok you want to make me look bad by cutting this legendary player, i'll trash your dumb first round QB and the QB you traded for by exercising my power (over who plays) and name Tyrod"

It's RAMPANT speculation on my part. But it makes some sense.

There have been a number of dubious leaks in the past associated with this organization. Doug Marone may be a POS, but he could just be a brash ass-hole that didn't like Whaley's decisions either.

It is at least possible.

And again... T-Pegs tried to replace Whaley with Bill Polian not even 6 months ago... It is at least a good possibility that not everyone is in agreement these days. The kumbaya T-Pegs era may have some fissures at the top ranks.

In any event. Assuming Rex and Whaley even have fundamental disagreements at this point, i can't imagine Rex would want to start off his "last chance" by instigating yet another GM/HC power struggle. He had enough of them in NY.
Absolutely.

[Topas]

With regard to the Whaley bashing.
We have the best roster outside of QB in about 20 years. And a lot of that has to do with Whaley.
Yes, QB is the most important position.
But first, it is better to have a good team outside of QB than to have a team that is no good at all, i.e. you need to add only one piece.
And second, maybe we have finally found the missing piece.

So while I am still sick with regard to the decision of cutting Freddie. But I nonetheless think Whaley does a good job overall. This is the best roster in years. This team won nine games despite Morone and this OC whose name I already forgot.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Sorry I'm on Whaley's AND Rex's side on this one. Anyone who thinks this is surprise or power struggle that Whaley sprang on Rex is pretty stupid in my opinion. The fact of the matter is that they tried to cut Fred back in the spring, before the draft. That should tell you the evaluation and planning of the personnel has been long done, like every NFL team should. Frankly I was less than pleased that an owner like Pegulas would come out and overrule football decisions over his football people (though from a business and marketing viewpoint, they may have a point).

I don't like organizations, especially top heads employ "yes" men only. Looks like Whaley is not a "yes" man while everyone thought since Pegulas intervened back in March so Jackson would be safe regardless. I could imagine that Whaley didn't back down from their initial assessment and analytics data, and questioned Jackson's eventual role should he be on the Bills roster -- likely inactive behind McCoy, Karlos, Boobie on game days; so he is essentially competing with Bryce as an injury insurance. Any NFL executives would choose Bryce in that case: about the same ability (different strength and weakness), 10 years younger, cheaper, and Jackson probably can't carry more than 12 carries a game any more.

It is exactly the opposite, keep giving old guys extensions (have to mention I was not exactly happy with McCoy's extension), one more year type of mentality that gets your organization into trouble. Again, I think Whaley, coming from Pittsburgh, has first-hand experience of managing a team with popular and aging star player. Who in the current Bills organization has dealt with those situations in detail before?

[HHURRICANE]

Love above thread!

[Turf]

Everyone's ignoring the consensus on whether Fred was 100% healed from his injury at 34 years old. I think that's what we're seeing behind the motivation here, and Ryan had earlier made statements that his injury was more severe than originally thought.

[Historian]

I'm kind of ambivalent.

On one hand, the guy was a warrior, with a heart that the combine cannot measure.

On the other hand, he's been pretty injury prone, and commands a hefty salary.

The thing about Fred was that he always came in and bailed us out when the "flavor of the month" fell on his face. (Spiller, Marshawn, et al)

I just hope McCoy is the real deal, because you just cut your insurance policy.

Just my two cents.

[DesertFox24]

Look I love Fred just as much as all of you and it sucks that he will potentially not be on the team for a potentially special season. That being said Whaley may have made the final decision but he let the Pegulas know, which Sal reported today. Whaley has control of the 53 and I am glad that he has the ability to make these kind of tough decisions.

The Pegulas are allowing him to do what he wants, but will hold him accountable or applaud him on his rosters moves. For the first time in our franchises history we have an owner(s) that will allow people to make the decisions they deem necessary but will hold them accountable if the fail and congratulate if they do well.

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm kind of ambivalent.

On one hand, the guy was a warrior, with a heart that the combine cannot measure.

On the other hand, he's been pretty injury prone, and commands a hefty salary.

The thing about Fred was that he always came in and bailed us out when the "flavor of the month" fell on his face. (Spiller, Marshawn, et al)

I just hope McCoy is the real deal, because you just cut your insurance policy.

Just my two cents.

A bit off topic, but how, if at all, pissed were you when they cut Thurman, Bruce and Andre?

[djjimkelly]

i am not pissed i love freddy but this move should been done a few years ago.

and the fact he had to have some parting shots is a low blow.

he should be happy the organization paid him for 8 years.

and i wont be thinking his 1 1000 yard season remotely deserves wall of fame . no pro bowls , no playoffs.

and in the end thankless for being given a chance. its a business and hes old

[cookie G]

I'm kind of ambivalent.

On one hand, the guy was a warrior, with a heart that the combine cannot measure.

On the other hand, he's been pretty injury prone, and commands a hefty salary.

The thing about Fred was that he always came in and bailed us out when the "flavor of the month" fell on his face. (Spiller, Marshawn, et al)

I just hope McCoy is the real deal, because you just cut your insurance policy.

Just my two cents.

I wouldn't say I'm ambivalent, its more of a recognition that these things happen in the NFL and pro sports in general. A Vince Wilfork leaves NE, an Emmitt Smith finishes his career with Zona, etc.

It makes a lot more sense to me that this was a personality clash with Whaley, or simply that he wasn't one of "Whaley's guys" than it was from a production standpoint. Anyone who wants to judge Jackson's production from the last year under Marrone-Hackett could probably judge OJ based on his production under John Rauch. The people who talk about a production level fall off are the same that have been saying it for years, so I take statements like that with a grain of salt.

But dumping guys that aren't a "GM's guy" or a "coach's Guy" happens in the NFL all the time. All you have to do is look at what Chip Kelly did in Philly to see it. Jackson, McCoy, Mathis, Maclin, Foles...all gone within 2 years. I think Dick Jauron lived by the motto, "he's not my type of player".

Why he wasn't one of Whaley's Guys, I have no idea. But to me at least, that seems to be the case.

[justasportsfan]

don't know if this has been posted ....


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000520116/article/fred-jackson-blames-bills-gm-doug-whaley-for-release

[Mike]

The real issue here isn't that Fred Jackson got cut, but how it was handled!

Cutting such a fan favorite was so mishandled that it's caused a PR disaster
.... And someone has to fall on the sword.

This Maked Fans See/Realize how Unfair Teams can be with their Best Players.

[gebobs]

Karlos Williams outperformed Fred Jackson...
Wait. What?

[WagonCircler]

Wait. What?

Just....don't.

It's like starting a conversation with a urine-soaked homeless person. There's no upside.

[The Jokeman]

don't know if this has been posted ....


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000520116/article/fred-jackson-blames-bills-gm-doug-whaley-for-release

Wow, Whaley lied as a GM, I bet you 31 other GMs lie too but I don't seem them called out on it.

[sudzy]

Wow, Whaley lied as a GM, I bet you 31 other GMs lie too but I don't seem them called out on it.

They get called out when they cut fan favorites. You just don't see it on a Bills message board.