Refs Blow Call Seahawks Win

[Mike]

- 3 Refs miss a clear foul as Seahawks player intentionally bats fumble out of end zone
- a 10 yard penalty should have been assessed and ball given to Lions
- it was within 2min and it could have been reviewed


= Should have been 1st & Goal at 6 inch line with a 1:30 min left in game down by 3

Refs Impact the Result of yet another Game!

[streetkings01]

Weird things happen up there

[Mike]

http://es.pn/1VCqBgG

Here's ESPN's explanation
There is No conspiracy or favoritism it's just poor quality control & officiating consistency

[BertSquirtgum]

Refs have been a disgrace this year.

[cookie G]

I'd bet the only ref who knew the rule was the guy on ESPN.

But I can hear Hank Stram from his grave, screaming "how can all 6 of you miss that play?"

And Bryce Brown smiled when Megatron did his thing.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Oaf]

- 3 Refs miss a clear foul as Seahawks player intentionally bats fumble out of end zone
- a 10 yard penalty should have been assessed and ball given to Lions
- it was within 2min and it could have been reviewed


= Should have been 1st & Goal at 6 inch line with a 1:30 min left in game down by 3

Refs Impact the Result of yet another Game!

Refs aren't perfect - did ya know that? Watch football at ground level in real time and see if you can make the perfect call every time. Even so, the ball was going OOB anyway and it probably looked like he was trying to field it. If not, RW had 2min on the clock left..

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Refs aren't perfect - did ya know that? Watch football at ground level in real time and see if you can make the perfect call every time. Even so, the ball was going OOB anyway and it probably looked like he was trying to field it. If not, RW had 2min on the clock left..

I absolutely recognize that the refs have a nearly impossible job.

However, this is why I am such a proponent of penalty instant replay review.

[trapezeus]

Why not have dedicated cameras and officials view the film. They call it from booth with only two actual field refs to relay that information?

i get that the game is fast. But with a legislative book that is becoming absurd, pretending they know all the rules is tiring

[Joe Fo Sho]

http://i.imgur.com/eelpk3A.jpg


Can't fault the ref, clearly he didn't have a good look at it.

[k-oneputt]

Great picture.

That terrible call helped me out

[Mr. Miyagi]

Great picture.

That terrible call helped me out
It screwed me.

[k-oneputt]

Get it back on LSU Saturday.

[OLDSRIP]

I absolutely recognize that the refs have a nearly impossible job.

However, this is why I am such a proponent of penalty instant replay review.

I agree with your point on instant replay review for penalties.

How could that be done? More coaches challenges?

You can't review them all, I don't think.

That would have added about 30 more stoppages in Sunday's game if all we reviewed.

[OpIv37]

http://es.pn/1VCqBgG

Here's ESPN's explanation
There is No conspiracy or favoritism it's just poor quality control & officiating consistency

It's Pete Carroll so there is some kind of conspiracy. Maybe it doesn't involve the refs but I have a hard time believing he's not pulling a Belicheck somehow based on his history at USC.

[GvilleBills]

That's the problem with refs, they're human, therefore imperfect. There needs to oversight, and stop trying to sell these part timers as unquestionably sound.

[Forward_Lateral]

The fact that the NFL has done NOTHING to improve officiating over the past 5 years is a complete and utter disgrace. They are ruining the game. Between the terrible calls league wide, the blatant missed calls and the incompetence of the replay system, the game is becoming unwatchable. I seriously have had less enjoyment watching games this year so far than ever before. I live for football Sundays, but it's becoming very painful to watch. That, and the hours of freaking stoppages during a game. I swear I watch more commercials for How To Get Away With Murder every Sunday than I do actual football. It's disgusting.

[psubills62]

Can't be, we've been told the refs are always right. We're not allowed to criticize them.

Really a terrible, terrible non-call.

They really need to start pushing the "incontrovertible evidence" aspect so they can review more calls. Get rid of this "non-reviewable" crap. Let a reviewer see the play twice from a good angle. If he/she is still unsure, then keep the call on the field, otherwise overturn it. Basically, if something is blatantly obvious, then it's not hard to see it after viewing it a couple times. It's really tiring to see judgment calls made that strongly impact the game that turn out to be horrendously bad calls by the ref.

I don't expect the refs to get everything right, but come on. That was downright awful.

At least they showed a replay of it, though. Most teams don't even get that benefit.

Hey, maybe for every play, they should show a replay and let the viewing public text in regarding what the call should be. Right? Right??

[OpIv37]

That's the problem with refs, they're human, therefore imperfect. There needs to oversight, and stop trying to sell these part timers as unquestionably sound.

Of course humans make mistakes, but they make far too many of them and it is affecting the outcome of the game. Between the league's inability to keep NE from cheating and the incompetence of the refs, I'm really losing confidence that the team playing the best will actually win the game.

[psubills62]

Personally, I find it a little strange that the rule is written how it is regarding fumbling out the end zone.

So in the normal field of play, if someone fumbles the ball forward and it goes out of bounds, that team retains possession and it goes back to the spot where the player fumbled it. Why isn't it the same for the end zone? I don't think it makes sense to automatically give the ball to a team that never obtained possession of it during the play.

[Victor7]

Refs have been a disgrace this year.

Its been going on for quite some time, not just this year. But I do agree it seems to have gotten worst.

Do Kyle Williams' words make more sense now to those posters who said we were making excuses ?? The refs do screw up. More often than not. They freaking stink. Specially the inexperienced crews like the one's we've had in the 2 penalty infested weeks. I mean yesterday's crew was Tony Corrente's. That guy is one of the few good ones. And even he messed up.

[Forward_Lateral]

Of course humans make mistakes, but they make far too many of them and it is affecting the outcome of the game. Between the league's inability to keep NE from cheating and the incompetence of the refs, I'm really losing confidence that the team playing the best will actually win the game.

It all starts with Goddell. How that guy still has his job is beyond me.

[Cleve]

It was a bad call... but... the Seattle player could have/should have just scooped it up and taken a knee and it would be a touch-back. Although he might have made the bad decision to try and run it, or fallen on it and fumbled it and the Lions repossess.

So it should have been called properly, and given back to the Lions. The excuse the VP of officiating came up with was really weak sauce.

[Victor7]

It was a bad call... but... the Seattle player could have/should have just scooped it up and taken a knee and it would be a touch-back. Although he might have made the bad decision to try and run it, or fallen on it and fumbled it and the Lions repossess.

So it should have been called properly, and given back to the Lions. The excuse the VP of officiating came up with was really weak sauce.

Dean Blandino. A complete tool. He's always making the worst possible excuses to stand up for his refs. How he can keep a straight face while saying the ref knew the rule, saw the play but decided it was inadverted is beyond any logical explanation.

[GvilleBills]

Of course humans make mistakes, but they make far too many of them and it is affecting the outcome of the game. Between the league's inability to keep NE from cheating and the incompetence of the refs, I'm really losing confidence that the team playing the best will actually win the game.



You do realize we're on the same side of this fence, right?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I agree with your point on instant replay review for penalties.

How could that be done? More coaches challenges?

You can't review them all, I don't think.

That would have added about 30 more stoppages in Sunday's game if all we reviewed.

I went over this with DraftBoy a while back, my idea is that you include penalties on the list of things coaches can challenge, but you force the coach to declare exactly what the review is looking for. So you can say "Jerry Hughes wasn't taunting, he was smacking a teammate's helmet" but you couldn't just say "I think someone was holding." And it would be included in the limits of regular review: 2 per game, a 3rd if you get the first two right, and none within the last 2 minutes (in the Seahawks' case this would have required a booth review.)

The game can be sped up in a number of other ways without compromising the result of the game.

[OpIv37]

You do realize we're on the same side of this fence, right?

Yes.

Just tired of the "humans make mistakes" argument. Of course they do, but 95% of the population would get fired if they made as many impactful mistakes as NFL refs do.

[EricStratton]

Don't discount the fact that one of the NFL's darling new teams in Seattle with one of their great (filthy rich) owners and their new poster boy in Wilson came out on the plus side of the call against dirty poor crappy Detroit.

[OLDSRIP]

I went over this with DraftBoy a while back, my idea is that you include penalties on the list of things coaches can challenge, but you force the coach to declare exactly what the review is looking for. So you can say "Jerry Hughes wasn't taunting, he was smacking a teammate's helmet" but you couldn't just say "I think someone was holding." And it would be included in the limits of regular review: 2 per game, a 3rd if you get the first two right, and none within the last 2 minutes (in the Seahawks' case this would have required a booth review.)

The game can be sped up in a number of other ways without compromising the result of the game.

Thanks, that might work.

I think they might need a couple extra challenges per game the way it's going this year.

The game definitely needs to be sped up. All the penalties are killing the game.

[paladin warrior]

need real small drone ref and fire all human ref

[trapezeus]

The fact that the NFL has done NOTHING to improve officiating over the past 5 years is a complete and utter disgrace. They are ruining the game. Between the terrible calls league wide, the blatant missed calls and the incompetence of the replay system, the game is becoming unwatchable. I seriously have had less enjoyment watching games this year so far than ever before. I live for football Sundays, but it's becoming very painful to watch. That, and the hours of freaking stoppages during a game. I swear I watch more commercials for How To Get Away With Murder every Sunday than I do actual football. It's disgusting.

but how to get away with murder is an ABC show and they don't have a game on sundays?

[Ed]

I don't understand the point of the rule to begin with. If he grabs the ball and steps out the back of the endzone it's a turnover and touchback, but if he pushes the ball out of the back of the endzone it's a penalty and the offense gets the ball back and a first down. What exactly is the purpose of that rule?

[trapezeus]

i really think if you put a handful of refs in the booth, they see their assignments on dedicated tvs and look for penalties which the can relay to the field linesman, then you can have people in optimum positions to see fouls and such.

as it stands now, refs are throwing flags when people sell it. when tyrod got him at the sidelines. if he goes down, all 5 flags on the field. because he stands, they don't know what to do.

I am against having more replay items. but i think the transparency of the refs needs to be clearer. if you have a 25 penalty game and your game went an extra hour, that should be noted. and coaches should be able to speak out in press conferences and say, "the number of BS calls in a stack are really hard to overcome. especially when you aren't doing them." they silence the players and coaches on this. so when someone has a gripe to say its awful, it makes it seem conspiracy theory-ish to say, "it's a poorly reffed game."

i also remember as a kid, penalties were 2 second affairs. "Holding on number 45."
Now almost every referree has their ed hochuli, " he kind of caught it, but then fell down, and then sneezed, therefore it is not a catch though it clearly looked like a catch."

it's a league issue and it is making games really painful. i used to be able to sitdown and just watch football all day, and now, i'm exhausted after the bills game and don't really care for the next game because i can't stand the fact there are going to be a ton of ref committees.

[trapezeus]

I don't understand the point of the rule to begin with. If he grabs the ball and steps out the back of the endzone it's a turnover and touchback, but if he pushes the ball out of the back of the endzone it's a penalty and the offense gets the ball back and a first down. What exactly is the purpose of that rule?

if there is an opposing player closer and maybe within reach, you want to incentivize players going for the ball. that's more fun to watch and see what comes of it. you don't want players just tapping the ball out of bounds and make it hard for the offense to get it, but simple for the defense to defend it.

[Ed]

if there is an opposing player closer and maybe within reach, you want to incentivize players going for the ball. that's more fun to watch and see what comes of it. you don't want players just tapping the ball out of bounds and make it hard for the offense to get it, but simple for the defense to defend it.
That's the actual reason the NFL has the rule? That sounds pretty dumb. It's on the offense to hold onto the ball in the first place. I don't see why you need a rule to help them recover it.

[BillsImpossible]

They didn't blow the call, they did what they were told to do.

The NFL is all about the gambling. Vegas has the league by the balls.

Referees have a job to do and it has little to do with fairly officiating games.

The NFL is corrupt. It's a fixed league and that is not a conspiracy theory, it's just business.

[feldspar]

They didn't blow the call, they did what they were told to do.

The NFL is all about the gambling. Vegas has the league by the balls.

Referees have a job to do and it has little to do with fairly officiating games.

The NFL is corrupt. It's a fixed league and that is not a conspiracy theory, it's just business.

I don't think this could possibly be true in this case.

The spread was Seattle -10, so they didn't cover even after the blown call. Detroit would have won against the spread no matter what was called on the field. I get the feeling the fix is in too often, but not this time. I think somebody just screwed up royally here.

I don't know how many people bet the Lions on the moneyline, but it couldn't be enough for a fix in that situation. Those are the only people affected really...but you could make serious coin winning on the moneyline betting the underdog on a 10-point spread. There are those out there more pissed than Lions fans could probably be.

[Mike]

Of course humans make mistakes, but they make far too many of them and it is affecting the outcome of the game. Between the league's inability to keep NE from cheating and the incompetence of the refs, I'm really losing confidence that the team playing the best will actually win the game.

That's it right there....

In a league of Parity, in a game between equals, something as simple as a blown call Will make a difference in the Final Result or a game or a Season.

I no longer believe that the best team wins a SB...
No! It's the team that has the best luck when it comes to injuries, calls & getting hot at the right time.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That's it right there....

In a league of Parity, in a game between equals, something as simple as a blown call Will make a difference in the Final Result or a game or a Season.

I no longer believe that the best team wins a SB...
No! It's the team that has the best luck when it comes to injuries, calls & getting hot at the right time.

That's always been the case in a single-elimination playoff structure. Bad bounces at the wrong time and you're done.

[starrymessenger]

What I don't get is why the fumble was reviewable but not that part of the play that caused the change in possession i.e. the actual turnover.

[Victor7]

What I don't get is why the fumble was reviewable but not that part of the play that caused the change in possession i.e. the actual turnover.

Penalties are not reviewable. I think the only one allowed is too many men on the field. Other than that refs can't look at a replay and determine a missed call.

[chris66]

That's it right there....

In a league of Parity, in a game between equals, something as simple as a blown call Will make a difference in the Final Result or a game or a Season.

I no longer believe that the best team wins a SB...
No! It's the team that has the best luck when it comes to injuries, calls & getting hot at the right time.The only parity in the league this year is that everyone sucks with the exception of a few teams.

[Mr. Pink]

That's it right there....

In a league of Parity, in a game between equals, something as simple as a blown call Will make a difference in the Final Result or a game or a Season.

I no longer believe that the best team wins a SB...
No! It's the team that has the best luck when it comes to injuries, calls & getting hot at the right time.

There is no parity. It's a made up illusion. The same teams are good year in and year out with very little variance.

[gebobs]

I absolutely recognize that the refs have a nearly impossible job.

However, this is why I am such a proponent of penalty instant replay review.

Good god, no. Games would take half a day.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Good god, no. Games would take half a day.

As I said, you can easily trim other detritus from the game without sacrificing the integrity of the result.

but I suppose it's important that the games end 4 minutes earlier then have the correct victor.

[gebobs]

As I said, you can easily trim other detritus from the game without sacrificing the integrity of the result.

but I suppose it's important that the games end 4 minutes earlier then have the correct victor.

For my money, the refs are part of the game.

How would penalty review even apply in this situation? No penalty was called.

[BertSquirtgum]

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s379/bhurtgam/12105968_10206257871938001_3784187828553660529_n_zpsvqpevkup.jpg

[Mike]

There is no parity. It's a made up illusion. The same teams are good year in and year out with very little variance.

I think we disagree on the definition & application of Parity

Salary Cap, Free Agency & Draft definitely give every team an Opportunity to compete. Teams remain good today because they are consistent. Often times the very definition of a good team is a team that can consistently execute.


Compare this to mlb or soccer leagues across the pond... Small teams there are almost like a junior league team that has little to chance to ever win. Kinda like the 70's Bucs.

[Mike]

Some proposed Changes

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2576494-bill-belichick-is-right-the-nfl-needs-more-replay

[IlluminatusUIUC]

For my money, the refs are part of the game.

Nobody tunes in to watch the referees. Their role is to facilitate the game, not take it over, and if they are making mistakes that are swinging the outcomes of games - that needs to be addressed. Instant replay was created for that exact purpose, you'll recall.


How would penalty review even apply in this situation? No penalty was called.

In this case it would have to be a booth review because of the clock, but I see no reason why it couldn't be buzzed down for review on that specific issue.

FWIW, I'm totally on board with re-writing the illegal bat rule for a situation like this where no one is in position to recover the ball. The same as pass interference doesn't count if the ball is thrown too far, the bat shouldn't be a penalty if there's no other player with a reasonable chance at it. But the rule as it's written now was clearly violated.

[k-oneputt]

Get it back on LSU Saturday.

cha ching. There you are even.

[BuffaloRedleg]

They should get rid of instant replay all together.

The harder they try to make things perfect the more imperfect it all becomes.

Let referee mistakes be a small part of the game. By making such a big deal out of getting things perfect all it does is draw attention to the mistakes.

Is the purpose of football to be perfectly refereed or is it to be entertaining?

At what point does your obsession with perfection become at too much of an expense of the flow of the game?