A little early to be calling for Rex's Head

[Owen DeBoard]

Im as disappointed as the next guy that this team is NOT performing up to the expectation that we all thought in the offseason. Yes the D was good last year but this is a different year. Who is to say that teams wouldn't have figured out Jims "wide 9" D this year? I look at this team and the only strength on this D is the CB position. As I have said in previous posts this is the worst trio of LBs in the league. In Rexs Ds in the past his LBs have been one of the biggest strengths. Hes had LBs such as Ray Lewis and David Harris. Those guys didn't miss tackles like these sorry *** LBs do on this team. Yes Rex makes mistakes with challenges and some other stuff but tell me what coach doesn't. Yes I don't like how the team is on pace to break the single season penalty record and Rex should fix that in time. On the other hand this team doesn't quit on him though. This team is always one score behind in most games. I have watched teams in the past where they get down a couple of scores and they pack it in I don't see that with this team. Remember this is year 1 with Rex he probably doesn't have all the pieces he would like on this team yet. To be fair he needs at least 2 more years to build the team he wants especially on D. Add in all the injuries hes dealt with on both sides of the ball and I don't even think the great Billicheck could win with this team.

[YardRat]

I would have preferred to not have taken three steps backward after we took two forward last season. Given Rex's resume as a head coach, the moment he signed the contract is not too early to call for his head.

[Mahdi]

The Rex hate is way too early. He needs time to re-jig the team to his specifications.

In year 1 of his tenure they drafted some pretty nice pieces. Another year and he'll sign and draft a couple more guys that he wants and fit the scheme.

We aren't signing Bill Belichick so not sure who the super coach is that is going to come in and turn this around. I believe Rex is a solid coach and he has had to deal with a lot of Bs and misfortune since taking over which has lead to our current record. He'll learn and be better for it.

[justasportsfan]

Looks like teams have already figured out Rexs D.

How in he'll do you take a 100 million DT and make him drop back to cover NO ONE!.

[Owen DeBoard]

Looks like teams have already figured out Rexs D.

How in he'll do you take a 100 million DT and make him drop back to cover NO ONE!.

Rex don't have the right pieces in place for his D yet. This team is in major need of upgrading the LBs and im sure that will be addressed in the offseason whether through the draft or free agency. I think they will build the D around Marcell. Im starting to think Mario is gonna be gone after this year. If he can get his D to do what they did to Brady a few weeks ago I don't care who he has drop back into coverage and don't forget he didn't have either Williams on the line for most of that game either. Ive never seen Brady get pressured as much as he did when the Bills played him a few weeks ago.

[Luisito23]

LOL, a little too early?...

I guess this guy hasn't seen Buffalo embarrass themselves this season.

[Owen DeBoard]

LOL, a little too early?...

I guess this guy hasn't seen Buffalo embarrass themselves this season.

This guy has watched every single snap this year and yes at times Rex is to blame but also when players don't tackle like they are suppose to or miss assignments like they have that lead to scores you cant blame that on Rex. I know some on here have wanted Jim Schwartz as the head coach but I do remember when he was head coach at Detroit and that didn't work out to well and he had better talent there on both sides of the ball.

[BOBM253]

Well he did take a top rated defense from last year, added to it and promised to be the number one defense. Instead he has installed a defense that makes pass rushers back off,cover air and db's playing too soft. He has taken a once promising defense and basically trashed it with his tinkering. They're now rated in the bottom 3rd, not first. I'm not happy with that at all.

[OpIv37]

The Rex hate is way too early. He needs time to re-jig the team to his specifications.

In year 1 of his tenure they drafted some pretty nice pieces. Another year and he'll sign and draft a couple more guys that he wants and fit the scheme.

We aren't signing Bill Belichick so not sure who the super coach is that is going to come in and turn this around. I believe Rex is a solid coach and he has had to deal with a lot of Bs and misfortune since taking over which has lead to our current record. He'll learn and be better for it.

So you're saying they added talent, but defending Rex despite taking a step backward on the field. Completely illogical.

[Mahdi]

So you're saying they added talent, but defending Rex despite taking a step backward on the field. Completely illogical.

Schemes take time to install and get players accustomed to them. Some players not fit and you have to go through a transition to determine who does and who doesn't. And sometimes you're just missing particular types of players to make it work.

Mostly I think it's just taking time for the players to adjust. Against KC it was simply getting beat up front in the run game and Rex getting screwed by his staff who were lost upstairs when he needed their input on challenges.

Missing the three Williams didn't help anything as well as Bradham.

[coastal]

We should wait two more seasons of 7-9 football and then start over.

duh.

[BertSquirtgum]

Looks like teams have already figured out Rexs D.

How in he'll do you take a 100 million DT and make him drop back to cover NO ONE!.

Because Rex Ryan is a stubborn egotistical moron.

[swiper]

Rex Ryan isn't the answer in Buffalo, but Bills are stuck with him (http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/11/rex_ryan_isnt_the_answer_in_buffalo_but_bills_are_stuck_with_him.html)

[swiper]

Schemes take time to install and get players accustomed to them. Some players not fit and you have to go through a transition to determine who does and who doesn't. And sometimes you're just missing particular types of players to make it work.

Not this long. Schwartz and Pettine both did it in half this time. Gailey did for the offense as well. These "schemes" are just failures.


Mostly I think it's just taking time for the players to adjust. Against KC it was simply getting beat up front

Apparently you missed all the DEs and DTs that were told to drop into coverage. Jerry Hughes and Manny Lawson being asked to cover Gronkowski the week before. Again, stupid scheme. Lousy head coach.


Missing the three Williams didn't help anything as well as Bradham.

Te players that KC lost were far more devastating to them than what the Bills lost. Their whole left side of the o-line was out injured (Grubbs/Fisher). Why didn't our illustrious head coach start blitzing Jerry Hughes from that side?

[Forward_Lateral]

Ryan single-handedly cost the Bills a win on Sunday. Not challenging the Maclin catch directly led to 7 points which the Chiefs probably wouldn't have scored. Changed the entire game.

If he costs Buffalo another win this season, he should be fired on the spot. It's inexcusable. I can live with clock management mistakes, even poor play calling, but something like not challenging blatant miscalls should not be OK.

[Novacane]

Looks like teams have already figured out Rexs D.

How in he'll do you take a 100 million DT and make him drop back to cover NO ONE!.

Dont question him! He's an NFL coach and you are just a dumb fan!!!!!!!!!!!

[Night Train]

Why call for things that won't happen for at least 1-2 more years ? The Pegulas' are not about to eat 20 Mil.


Whaley may have to worry and a consultant may be hired to advise the ownership, come end of season. They are not deaf to the noise.

[Buffalogic]

The season isn't over yet. Let's see what happens.

[sahlensguy]

I'm won't call for his head, only resigned to the fact that I'm stuck with this fraud for the next year or two. It won't hardly matter without a QB in sight anyway.

[Bill Cody]

It isn't working. Rex is not head coach material, just like his father. But I have to admit I didn't see him taking two steps back with the D, that's supposed to be his thing. I guess his thing is just being outcoached.

The Bills are a bike ride where you always end up falling off and skinning your knee. And you tell yourself "leave the bike in the garage" but when it heals you go out again. And skin your knee.

[Cleve]

I don't think it's too early at all to hold Rex Ryan accountable. Imagine if Schwartz had remained as DC - the defense could have evolved and improved even more; it's taken a huge step backwards though. And look at all the dumb undisciplined penalties - a lot of them on the coaching staff. Old Rexy was supposed to be a seasoned coach - instead the Jets are better with him gone, and the Bills are worse.

[Cleve]

Oh, and the excuse - "It will take a couple years for everyone to learn Rex's system" that I've read elsewhere..... jeebus.... the same nonsensical excuse was given for Chan Gailey's early failures. I also read similar excuses on Tennessee Titan message boards regarding Whisenhunt's first year with the Titans and the nosedive the team took under him; well, the Titans had their fill of Whisenhunt after about 1 1/2 seasons.

[cookie G]

We should wait two more seasons of 7-9 football and then start over.

duh.

There will always be those people who get more excited about the April draft than they do about Sept. opening day.


But talk of rebuilding the 4th ranked defense over the next 3 years is pretty much the dictionary definition of chasing your tail.

Cut
losses
now

[Cleve]

Defense has gone backwards due to coaching, not due to the players.

Bills are always "fixing their defense" even though the most glaring problem with the team for the past 10 years plus has been the lack of a decent quarterback/offense.

[Victor7]

The Rex hate is way too early. He needs time to re-jig the team to his specifications.

In year 1 of his tenure they drafted some pretty nice pieces. Another year and he'll sign and draft a couple more guys that he wants and fit the scheme.

We aren't signing Bill Belichick so not sure who the super coach is that is going to come in and turn this around. I believe Rex is a solid coach and he has had to deal with a lot of Bs and misfortune since taking over which has lead to our current record. He'll learn and be better for it.

That's just the thing. Why is he adjusting something that needed ZERO adjusting ??

Pettine came in and had this guys firing from the start. Ditto with Schwartz. They didn't need a full season to adjust. They saw what they had and ran their defenses to the team's strengths. Rex is doing the opposite. He's trying to do his thing irregardless if the talent at hand is better suited to do something else.

This is very simple. Our roster is the same as last year + a possible rookie of the year in Darby. There is no reason for them to take a step backwards let alone 10. They went from league leading and elite to a serious liability. This is all Rex 100%

You also talked about the injuries to Mario and Kyle. The Chiefs had 3 backup OL and a 3rd string running back. Inexcusable.

[Victor7]

As for the thread's premise

I can see both sides of the argument.

I mean firing coaches after one season has never been a recipe for success. Then again what Rex did to the defense is grounds for termination

His in game blunders are also concerning. He seems to have little to no control or idea over in game stuff like clock management, challenges and time out usage. He single handedly cost us this past game.

In any case he won't get fired. I mean I think it would take a melt down of colossal proportions over this next 5 games for that to happen so this is a mute point. I'll tell you what if I'm Pegula I put him on notice though. Go to him and flat out tell him that what he did to the defense is unacceptable and that if they don't take a huge step forward in 2016 he's outta here.

[Mahdi]

That's just the thing. Why is he adjusting something that needed ZERO adjusting ??

Pettine came in and had this guys firing from the start. Ditto with Schwartz. They didn't need a full season to adjust. They saw what they had and ran their defenses to the team's strengths. Rex is doing the opposite. He's trying to do his thing irregardless if the talent at hand is better suited to do something else.

This is very simple. Our roster is the same as last year + a possible rookie of the year in Darby. There is no reason for them to take a step backwards let alone 10. They went from league leading and elite to a serious liability. This is all Rex 100%

You also talked about the injuries to Mario and Kyle. The Chiefs had 3 backup OL and a 3rd string running back. Inexcusable.

First of all, no coach comes in and just keeps the same schemes as the previous coaching staff.

Second, Pettine did change the scheme and there were a lot of struggles. His defense was not highly ranked and had a lot of deficiencies. As for Schwartz he also came in and changed the scheme and although his defense was overall pretty successful, that defense struggled when it mattered and we lost games as a result (obviously our offense was worse and was the main reason.)

Ryan coaches a very particular style of defense and he was never going to play a base 4-3 wide 9. He came to take the defense to an elite level that could be so dominant that we could ride it to the playoffs. Obviously it hasn't gone as planned and the transition was more complicated than he thought.

[Victor7]

First of all, no coach comes in and just keeps the same schemes as the previous coaching staff.

That's your opinion. Its not a fact. If a scheme works there's no need to change it. Slight moves here and there maybe. But full scheme overhaul ? Nah.
I know every coach wants to do their thing. But this defense didn't need any adjusting. It was set. This is undeniable.


Second, Pettine did change the scheme and there were a lot of struggles. His defense was not highly ranked and had a lot of deficiencies. As for Schwartz he also came in and changed the scheme and although his defense was overall pretty successful, that defense struggled when it mattered and we lost games as a result (obviously our offense was worse and was the main reason.)

Pettine's D wasn't as good as Schwartz but they never looked this bad IMO. Disagree 100% on JS. Sure they could've had a bad game here or there, nobody plays perfect all the time but for the most part they were elite.


Ryan coaches a very particular style of defense and he was never going to play a base 4-3 wide 9. He came to take the defense to an elite level that could be so dominant that we could ride it to the playoffs. Obviously it hasn't gone as planned and the transition was more complicated than he thought.

Then Pegula is at blame. I mean if Rex said he was going to change the defense and TPegs thought it was a good idea then he's a moron. If Rex never said anything about changing and sort of taking it from where it was then its all on Rex. All I know and this is a fact, not an opinion is that our formerly elite defense has become below average.

[Typ0]

It is not too early at all. Rex is a players coach. A laizze fair guy in some area's he needs to be a football nazi. On top of that, the entire coaching staff is clearly not on the same page. These things take years to change in someone and the overall disposition is something few people can ever change. Ryan's days as a Bill are numbered and the shorter the better.

[Mahdi]

That's your opinion. Its not a fact. If a scheme works there's no need to change it. Slight moves here and there maybe. But full scheme overhaul ? Nah.
I know every coach wants to do their thing. But this defense didn't need any adjusting. It was set. This is undeniable.



Pettine's D wasn't as good as Schwartz but they never looked this bad IMO. Disagree 100% on JS. Sure they could've had a bad game here or there, nobody plays perfect all the time but for the most part they were elite.



Then Pegula is at blame. I mean if Rex said he was going to change the defense and TPegs thought it was a good idea then he's a moron. If Rex never said anything about changing and sort of taking it from where it was then its all on Rex. All I know and this is a fact, not an opinion is that our formerly elite defense has become below average.

That is not my opinion that's fact.

Coaches become head coaches and always change the scheme of the team they are taking over. If a 3-4 coach comes in and they are playing 4-3 they change it to 3-4 almost by rule same is true for the opposite.

Only coach that didn't do that was Tomlin and probably only because he had a defensive genius on his staff named Dick Lebeau. Rex came in with his people so it was always clear that he was bringing his defense with him.

Pegula hired the coach he thought would take the team to the next level. No one says I'm looking for a coach that will keep the defense playing the same system.

I disagree on Schwartz defense, I think they were good not great. They could be picked apart when the game was on the line too often.

[sdbillsfan2]

Somethings wrong when your own players can't understand the system but the opposition can . I'll never understand why they brought him here in the first place. They skipped over Hue Jackson and Jim Shwartz to give us Rex ? Hopefully the Pegulas won't be so quick to listen to Whaley in the future.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That is not my opinion that's fact.

Coaches become head coaches and always change the scheme of the team they are taking over. If a 3-4 coach comes in and they are playing 4-3 they change it to 3-4 almost by rule same is true for the opposite.

Only coach that didn't do that was Tomlin and probably only because he had a defensive genius on his staff named Dick Lebeau. Rex came in with his people so it was always clear that he was bringing his defense with him.

Pegula hired the coach he thought would take the team to the next level. No one says I'm looking for a coach that will keep the defense playing the same system.

I disagree on Schwartz defense, I think they were good not great. They could be picked apart when the game was on the line too often.

Gary Kubiak did that just this year when it was clear his zone blocking/under center offense wasn't going to work with Manning there. He returned to Manning's shotgun no huddle and they improved until Manning was too hurt to continue. Bill Belichick has switched his defense schemes over and over to match the talent on hand. This is a defense with some extremely high dollar players who got those contracts by doing one thing very well: rushing upfield and disrupting QBs. Not all players are scheme versatile. Darelle Revis was all-world until he went to Tampa and they tried to make him a zone D corner - it was a disaster. He came back north to New England and was a critical piece of a Super Bowl team because the coach knew how to use him.

Also, why are we giving him a pass claiming that the players all need to learn the system? Part of the supposed benefit of hiring Ryan was the similarity to Pettine's scheme, which nearly all our starters played in. It should also be noted that he had no such background when he first went to New York, and his D was #1 in the league in his first year.

Ryan's scheme is not so good that it can play guys out of position and still succeed.

[gebobs]

Im as disappointed as the next guy that this team is NOT performing up to the expectation that we all thought in the offseason. Yes the D was good last year but this is a different year. Who is to say that teams wouldn't have figured out Jims "wide 9" D this year? I look at this team and the only strength on this D is the CB position. As I have said in previous posts this is the worst trio of LBs in the league. In Rexs Ds in the past his LBs have been one of the biggest strengths. Hes had LBs such as Ray Lewis and David Harris. Those guys didn't miss tackles like these sorry *** LBs do on this team. Yes Rex makes mistakes with challenges and some other stuff but tell me what coach doesn't. Yes I don't like how the team is on pace to break the single season penalty record and Rex should fix that in time. On the other hand this team doesn't quit on him though. This team is always one score behind in most games. I have watched teams in the past where they get down a couple of scores and they pack it in I don't see that with this team. Remember this is year 1 with Rex he probably doesn't have all the pieces he would like on this team yet. To be fair he needs at least 2 more years to build the team he wants especially on D. Add in all the injuries hes dealt with on both sides of the ball and I don't even think the great Billicheck could win with this team.

GWOT

Carriage returns are your friend. Use 'em.

[Victor7]

That is not my opinion that's fact.


Coaches become head coaches and always change the scheme of the team they are taking over. If a 3-4 coach comes in and they are playing 4-3 they change it to 3-4 almost by rule same is true for the opposite.

Only coach that didn't do that was Tomlin and probably only because he had a defensive genius on his staff named Dick Lebeau. Rex came in with his people so it was always clear that he was bringing his defense with him.

Pegula hired the coach he thought would take the team to the next level. No one says I'm looking for a coach that will keep the defense playing the same system.

I disagree on Schwartz defense, I think they were good not great. They could be picked apart when the game was on the line too often.

No, not really. Its your opinion and its wrong.

Ilumm just gave you a couple of examples. I can tell you the 49ers Jim Tomsula is running the same D Harbaugh did. Caldwell didn't change a bit when took over Dungy in Indy. Ditto for Gruden after Dungy in Tampa. I can go on but I see no point.

I'm sure there are more examples of the opposite but the fact remains that not all coaches change schemes when the one they walk into is working properly.

[Mahdi]

No, not really. Its your opinion and its wrong.

Ilumm just gave you a couple of examples. I can tell you the 49ers Jim Tomsula is running the same D Harbaugh did. Caldwell didn't change a bit when took over Dungy in Indy. Ditto for Gruden after Dungy in Tampa. I can go on but I see no point.


I'm sure there are more examples of the opposite but the fact remains that not all coaches change schemes when the one they walk into is working properly.

Kubiak went in with his scheme and did not keep Gase's. He then made some adjustments to accommodate for the best QB of all time.

Tomsula was the DL coach when Harbaugh was there so obviously he wouldn't change scheme.

Caldwell is an offensive coach so he didn't change Dungy's D.

Gruden was an offensive coach and Dungy was defensive so again the example is invalid.

[sdbillsfan2]

I'm serious when I ask this.

Why keep Rex around ? If a player performed as poorly he would be cut. What is it that makes him the best choice ?
Thanks.

[cookie G]

That is not my opinion that's fact.

Coaches become head coaches and always change the scheme of the team they are taking over. If a 3-4 coach comes in and they are playing 4-3 they change it to 3-4 almost by rule same is true for the opposite.

Only coach that didn't do that was Tomlin and probably only because he had a defensive genius on his staff named Dick Lebeau. Rex came in with his people so it was always clear that he was bringing his defense with him.

Pegula hired the coach he thought would take the team to the next level. No one says I'm looking for a coach that will keep the defense playing the same system.

I disagree on Schwartz defense, I think they were good not great. They could be picked apart when the game was on the line too often.

Here's what Rex said when he fired Schwartz:

"I recognize that we're kind of a little different, but quite honestly, I've been part of record-setting teams that base out of a 4-3 and I've been part of record-setting teams that base out of a 3-4," Ryan said Wednesday. "One thing you'll find out about me is that it's not ego-driven. We're not going to definitely play a 3-4 or a 4-3, for that matter. We're going to have in our arsenal the ability to do anything. As an opponent, you've got to prepare for everything because, if not, I'm going to find out what you're not prepared for and I'll attack you appropriately. That's how we play defense. We play defense based on our personnel, not just the scheme. I don't try to put a square peg in a round hole."

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/01/rex_ryan_explains_firing_jim_schwartz_says_buffalo_bills_defense_will_rank_no_1.html

If he gave that same spiel to the Pegula's, he snookered them, if not outright lied to them.

Not ego driven? Please...

He's not only putting square pegs into round holes, he's trying to jam square pegs into holes that didn't exist.

If this is his idea of "playing defense based on personnel"..he's failed miserably..about as much as a person can fail.
Its almost as if he didn't bother to watch tape of the defense to determine what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Sometimes...the smartest move a manager can make is to leave something alone.

If I'm Pegula, and worth $4 or 5 billion, I consider a few things:

-with $5 billion in net worth, $5 million a year doesnt' mean that much to me;
-I know the man misled me with his talk of this nonspecific, morphing scheme defense and his ability to talent over scheme;
-I KNOW that after paying out good money for a very expensive Dline, and watch it underutilized, that he's going to be asking for more free agents to fix something that he himself broke;
-I know that I'm in my 70's (he's over 70 right?) and as such, I dont' have time to watch someone try to correct their own mistakes;
-It may cost me to fire him, but it also might cost me to lose revenue while he attempts to rebuild this team in his own image and likeness;
-Sometimes..its better to realize a mistake early and move in a different direction.

BTW..the next line in that article I cited makes me cringe:

That statement alone should quell any fear that the Bills' defense will take a step back by losing Schwartz.

[Victor7]

Kubiak went in with his scheme and did not keep Gase's. He then made some adjustments to accommodate for the best QB of all time.

Tomsula was the DL coach when Harbaugh was there so obviously he wouldn't change scheme.

Caldwell is an offensive coach so he didn't change Dungy's D.

Gruden was an offensive coach and Dungy was defensive so again the example is invalid.

Not invalid at all. You said coaches change schemes in new jobs. I gave you examples of the opposite. Now you are trying invalidate them with additional info like the Dungy and Gruden things. Fact is those guys got new gigs and kept schemes. Whether it happened on the other side of their respective expertise is irrelevant.

[Figster]

The way the D handled Brady in the last Pats game was a sight for sore eyes IMO...

[Mace]

It is a little early to call for his head. Not gonna happen. May as well call for a couple million dollars and get the same result.

Not anywhere near too early to be entirely disgusted and aggravated with him. Defensive Geniuses adapt scheme to personnel. That's how Buddy came up with the 4-6. That's why Buddy moved Dan Hampton around in the 4-6, to keep him over the weakest opponent OL. Buddy did not drop Dan Hampton into coverage.

Takes time to get players for your system sure, when you're obsessed, fixated and unbending on your system. Makes no sense not to use what you have on hand. And what he had on hand was the 4th ranked defense, 1st in sacks. Mario & Kyle Williams, and Dareus, in coverage. That's nuts. Just nuts.

Do they fit his system ? No. So clean them out and start over. Good deal, back to scratch to spend a couple years getting back to where we already were, so Rex can build the unit in his own image and maybe it will work, I mean not like Marrone, Hackett and Orton had any trouble rolling them up last year.

And at the last, he can't even explain it. It was sort of Dareus fault or something. Not Mr. Defense.

All you have to do is watch the 2 vines of Dareus, dropping back in to coverage, and read Rex's comments to be disgusted.

Here you go : http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/12/bills_rex_ryan_explains_marcell_dareus_dropping_into_coverage_on_chiefs_td_passe.html

I'll leave you with :


Asked at his Wednesday press conference why Dareus was dropping into coverage, Ryan scoffed.


"I don't know," Ryan said. "I don't think that's ... uh I don't ... in those things it's, uh, you know, I guess looks can be deceiving. We certainly didn't have him in a uh, well, one of them we did. It was supposed to be a trap coverage and it's supposed to actually trap the route they threw the touchdown on. We might have been talking about that a little differently, but we never executed it. I think it surprised the offense, but they threw right into it and we weren't there for it."



So I guess that means ah, I don't know. It was everyone elses fault.

[YardRat]

Kubiak went in with his scheme and did not keep Gase's. He then made some adjustments to accommodate for the best QB of all time.

Tomsula was the DL coach when Harbaugh was there so obviously he wouldn't change scheme.

Caldwell is an offensive coach so he didn't change Dungy's D.

Gruden was an offensive coach and Dungy was defensive so again the example is invalid.

The real example is extremely valid...the defense was dominant, so even simply having a candidate like Rex on the list to begin with was moronic.

[Cleve]

Somethings wrong when your own players can't understand the system but the opposition can . I'll never understand why they brought him here in the first place. They skipped over Hue Jackson and Jim Shwartz to give us Rex ? Hopefully the Pegulas won't be so quick to listen to Whaley in the future.

They shouldn't have kept either Whaley or Brandon - the entire front office should have been fully flushed out; it was the product of a losing culture that has been slowly built up over the last decade and a half. It was a Sabres-like miscue by Terry Pegula.

[BleedinGreenNC]

Rex don't have the right pieces in place for his D yet. This team is in major need of upgrading the LBs and im sure that will be addressed in the offseason whether through the draft or free agency. I think they will build the D around Marcell. Im starting to think Mario is gonna be gone after this year. If he can get his D to do what they did to Brady a few weeks ago I don't care who he has drop back into coverage and don't forget he didn't have either Williams on the line for most of that game either. Ive never seen Brady get pressured as much as he did when the Bills played him a few weeks ago.

I guess you never watched many of Rexys games.

[BleedinGreenNC]

Rex don't have the right pieces in place for his D yet. This team is in major need of upgrading the LBs and im sure that will be addressed in the offseason whether through the draft or free agency. I think they will build the D around Marcell. Im starting to think Mario is gonna be gone after this year. If he can get his D to do what they did to Brady a few weeks ago I don't care who he has drop back into coverage and don't forget he didn't have either Williams on the line for most of that game either. Ive never seen Brady get pressured as much as he did when the Bills played him a few weeks ago.

I think its so precious how you have sexy Rexys back!! I hope he stays with the Bills for years!!

[Mace]

I think its so precious how you have sexy Rexys back!! I hope he stays with the Bills for years!!

Really bad thing is that he should have been able to ride a complete defense for years and wins, despite his inept game management, and he couldn't even manage that.

Oh he'll be here for years, and it will be comical for everyone else. We'll rebuild once, then again, he'll keep talking, and sooner or later everyone will blink like "huh ?". What happened ? Start over, like we always do.

[BertSquirtgum]

I'm serious when I ask this.

Why keep Rex around ? If a player performed as poorly he would be cut. What is it that makes him the best choice ?
Thanks.

As rich as the Pegulas are. I can't see them eating 20 million dollars. I really really hope they do though.

[Shady25]

As of right now we have to compare rex's defense to jail house gumbo.. let's start with the D-Line.. he was a beef ramen noodle guy when he was with the jets they gave him a 4-3 and expected him to replicate the same flavor as his usual beef but with chicken seasoning.. now let's goto line backers.. Rex had the cheetos and doritos to put in the gumvo with the jets.. Bart Scott to this day would be an upgrade.. and Harris is elite.. in comparison to in Buffalo all he has is that kid that shows up with cheeze its once a month, in Preston.. and his one incredible week he had against miami.. when it comes to our secondary... God bless him.. he's managed to get better results from Darb-Diddy, and Gilmore better then that overpaid 120 million dollar tandem up north.. so in jail terms he provided the bag to cook in even after the correctional officer told him no.
So give him a little time to get acquainted and get the right ingredients and barter around a little bit.
Go bills

[swiper]

That is not my opinion that's fact.

Coaches become head coaches and always change the scheme of the team they are taking over. If a 3-4 coach comes in and they are playing 4-3 they change it to 3-4 almost by rule same is true for the opposite.

Only coach that didn't do that was Tomlin and probably only because he had a defensive genius on his staff named Dick Lebeau. Rex came in with his people so it was always clear that he was bringing his defense with him.

Pegula hired the coach he thought would take the team to the next level. No one says I'm looking for a coach that will keep the defense playing the same system.

I disagree on Schwartz defense, I think they were good not great. They could be picked apart when the game was on the line too often.

LOL.. This is the epitome of stupidity. Defending the failures of this coach and panning the guy that took us to #4.

[Mahdi]

Here's what Rex said when he fired Schwartz:

"I recognize that we're kind of a little different, but quite honestly, I've been part of record-setting teams that base out of a 4-3 and I've been part of record-setting teams that base out of a 3-4," Ryan said Wednesday. "One thing you'll find out about me is that it's not ego-driven. We're not going to definitely play a 3-4 or a 4-3, for that matter. We're going to have in our arsenal the ability to do anything. As an opponent, you've got to prepare for everything because, if not, I'm going to find out what you're not prepared for and I'll attack you appropriately. That's how we play defense. We play defense based on our personnel, not just the scheme. I don't try to put a square peg in a round hole."

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/01/rex_ryan_explains_firing_jim_schwartz_says_buffalo_bills_defense_will_rank_no_1.html

If he gave that same spiel to the Pegula's, he snookered them, if not outright lied to them.

Not ego driven? Please...

He's not only putting square pegs into round holes, he's trying to jam square pegs into holes that didn't exist.

If this is his idea of "playing defense based on personnel"..he's failed miserably..about as much as a person can fail.
Its almost as if he didn't bother to watch tape of the defense to determine what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Sometimes...the smartest move a manager can make is to leave something alone.

If I'm Pegula, and worth $4 or 5 billion, I consider a few things:

-with $5 billion in net worth, $5 million a year doesnt' mean that much to me;
-I know the man misled me with his talk of this nonspecific, morphing scheme defense and his ability to talent over scheme;
-I KNOW that after paying out good money for a very expensive Dline, and watch it underutilized, that he's going to be asking for more free agents to fix something that he himself broke;
-I know that I'm in my 70's (he's over 70 right?) and as such, I dont' have time to watch someone try to correct their own mistakes;
-It may cost me to fire him, but it also might cost me to lose revenue while he attempts to rebuild this team in his own image and likeness;
-Sometimes..its better to realize a mistake early and move in a different direction.

BTW..the next line in that article I cited makes me cringe:

That statement alone should quell any fear that the Bills' defense will take a step back by losing Schwartz.

Coaches always say that. Its like a standard line "we'll do what works blah blah blah," in the end most coaches change the scheme to match what they typically run.

It should not have been a surprise to anyone that Rex Ryan of all people would install a Ryan defense. In the end he actually tried to play some base 4-3 and he blames the attempt at not playing "his way" on the defense not playing well. In his PC after the Pats game he said clearly...

"I should have been playing my defense from the beginning, I knew it wasn't right the previous weeks" Paraphrasing

[Mahdi]

Not invalid at all. You said coaches change schemes in new jobs. I gave you examples of the opposite. Now you are trying invalidate them with additional info like the Dungy and Gruden things. Fact is those guys got new gigs and kept schemes. Whether it happened on the other side of their respective expertise is irrelevant.

Because that is reality.

If a coach specializes on one side of the ball he will most certainly use his style of offense or defense with his new team. The other side of the ball he will not pay as much attention to.

How about you give me a few examples of a coach who typically plays one way and actually didn't change his new team to HIS style on his side of the ball.

I gave you one and that is Tomlin. And again, he had Lebeau in place and he wasn't about to fire Dick Lebeau.

[Mahdi]

LOL.. This is the epitome of stupidity. Defending the failures of this coach and panning the guy that took us to #4.

What does this have to do with defending Rex?

We are talking about scheme changes. I personally think Rex's D will be better than Schwartz's D over time. Schwartz's D was statistically good but was beatable in crunch time.

[Victor7]

Because that is reality.

If a coach specializes on one side of the ball he will most certainly use his style of offense or defense with his new team. The other side of the ball he will not pay as much attention to.

How about you give me a few examples of a coach who typically plays one way and actually didn't change his new team to HIS style on his side of the ball.

I gave you one and that is Tomlin. And again, he had Lebeau in place and he wasn't about to fire Dick Lebeau.

I gave you 3. And you changed your original argument by using additional info to discredit them. No point in continuing this argument. You'll just do the same.

Keep thinking we are ok with a guy that took the 4th ranked defense and most successful sacking team and turned them into ****. Maybe by 2017 Rex will have assembled his D.

[starrymessenger]

I'm serious when I ask this.

Why keep Rex around ? If a player performed as poorly he would be cut. What is it that makes him the best choice ?
Thanks.
And I agree it's a serious question. If Rex is really as clueless as he appears to be, what Pegs has agreed to pay him is a sunk cost with no return. So that money is wasted already. Why waste time in addition wasting money. Makes more sense to get busy making things better sooner. What would a normal HC contract look like? Three years for 3M per? Pegs can afford to spend another 9 bucks, even if you also have to cut bait with some assistants. IMO that would be preferable to another 4 years of Rex, and probably in the end also makes sense from a financial (franchise value) point of view. Of course Mr and Mrs Pegs may still be under Rex's spell. I'm not a big Whaley fan. I think he's been a disaster as far as the offence is concerned especially. But if (when) he is fired the new GM has to live with Rex having a direct reporting line to the owner. What GM worth his salt would want to sign up for that? Probably no one you would want to have.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And I agree it's a serious question. If Rex is really as clueless as he appears to be, what Pegs has agreed to pay him is a sunk cost with no return. So that money is wasted already. Why waste time in addition wasting money. Makes more sense to get busy making things better sooner. What would a normal HC contract look like? Three years for 3M per? Pegs can afford to spend another 9 bucks, even if you also have to cut bait with some assistants. IMO that would be preferable to another 4 years of Rex, and probably in the end also makes sense from a financial (franchise value) point of view. Of course Mr and Mrs Pegs may still be under Rex's spell. I'm not a big Whaley fan. I think he's been a disaster as far as the offence is concerned especially. But if (when) he is fired the new GM has to live with Rex having a direct reporting line to the owner. What GM worth his salt would want to sign up for that? Probably no one you would want to have.

Rex's contract as a sunk cost becomes a lot more acceptable when you realize that he's wasting the talents of players making tens of millions of dollars per year.

Cutting or marginalizing all pro players on 100 million dollar deals to avoid paying out a coach salary is lunacy, and Pegula should know that.

[OpIv37]

I'll never understand why fans- who want wins by definition- defend the players and coaches responsible for losing. Rex's coaching has been a disaster. Too many penalties, poor S/T, sub-par clock management, the challenges, no in-game adjustments... I'd say he's directly responsible for two losses and you could argue more than that.

Yeah, maybe he needs more of "his" guys and maybe the players need more time to adjust to his system, but given his performance here so far and with the Jets, I think what we are seeing now is par for the course.

The problem is what firing Rex means: another new coach, more new systems, and 2-3 more years of "rebuilding" before we may be competitive again. I think that's causing some of you to make excuses for Rex.

[starrymessenger]

Rex's contract as a sunk cost becomes a lot more acceptable when you realize that he's wasting the talents of players making tens of millions of dollars per year.

Cutting or marginalizing all pro players on 100 million dollar deals to avoid paying out a coach salary is lunacy, and Pegula should know that.

Something else that worries me along these lines and that has been mentioned by other posters is that Rex might dedicate the next draft or two to retool a defence to his specifications (when in fact it was not broken in the first place). If so, the emphasis may well be misplaced and only wind up putting us further behind. The more so if the GM has been somewhat neutered. So in terms of long term development planning Rex's influence may have negative consequences that go well beyond his termination date, whenever that happens.

i love Pegs for what he did saving the franchise (as an Expos fan I know from bitter experience what it's like to lose a big league team) but I really think he put his foot in it with his first step. I wonder who was advising him? Or maybe he and the missus thought they had it all figured out.

[swiper]

The problem is what firing Rex means: another new coach, more new systems, and 2-3 more years of "rebuilding" before we may be competitive again. I think that's causing some of you to make excuses for Rex.

They need give it to Roman and bring back Schwartz to run the defense. Or vice versa. Those 2 guys. You pick which one you want to call HC.

[justasportsfan]

Rex is not only BB beeyatch but Marrones as well

[BleedinGreenNC]

What does this have to do with defending Rex?

We are talking about scheme changes. I personally think Rex's D will be better than Schwartz's D over time. Schwartz's D was statistically good but was beatable in crunch time.

But how much time are Bills fans willing to wait?

[sdbillsfan2]

But how much time are Bills fans willing to wait?

I hope its not much longer. The Jets waited and they only played worse as time went on .
Weather you like Shwartz or Pettine before him ,we saw positive results their first year. The results under Rex's reign have not been good.
I'd rather not wait on Rex or Whaley .

[Mr. Pink]

Bring back Jauron.

[pmoon6]

Im as disappointed as the next guy that this team is NOT performing up to the expectation that we all thought in the offseason. Yes the D was good last year but this is a different year. Who is to say that teams wouldn't have figured out Jims "wide 9" D this year? I look at this team and the only strength on this D is the CB position. As I have said in previous posts this is the worst trio of LBs in the league. In Rexs Ds in the past his LBs have been one of the biggest strengths. Hes had LBs such as Ray Lewis and David Harris. Those guys didn't miss tackles like these sorry *** LBs do on this team. Yes Rex makes mistakes with challenges and some other stuff but tell me what coach doesn't. Yes I don't like how the team is on pace to break the single season penalty record and Rex should fix that in time. On the other hand this team doesn't quit on him though. This team is always one score behind in most games. I have watched teams in the past where they get down a couple of scores and they pack it in I don't see that with this team. Remember this is year 1 with Rex he probably doesn't have all the pieces he would like on this team yet. To be fair he needs at least 2 more years to build the team he wants especially on D. Add in all the injuries hes dealt with on both sides of the ball and I don't even think the great Billicheck could win with this team.Not after last week. His misuse of challenges and lack thereof on two crucial plays probably lost us the game and a chance to be in the playoffs was inexcusable.

[Mace]

Bring back Jauron.

That was uncalled for, Pink.

[BleedinGreenNC]

Bring back Jauron.

No, keep Rex please!

[Owen DeBoard]

Not after last week. His misuse of challenges and lack thereof on two crucial plays probably lost us the game and a chance to be in the playoffs was inexcusable.

I cant argue with you on either of those things that loss is totally on him but that's just one that ive seen. There isn't a coach in the league that isn't responsible for at least one loss. I like how this team doesnt quit when they are down like I have seen so many Bills teams in the past just give up. You cant call for a coaches head when he hasn't had 1 WHOLE season as a coach for this team. Throw in they have a QB that is starting for the first time in his career. Rex proved the second game against the Patriots that he has the right D to go toe to toe with the Pats. Upgrade the LB position some how in the offseason and this D will improve big time.

[Owen DeBoard]

No, keep Rex please!

I say hell yeah keep Rex last time I checked this team beat the Jets this year.

[pmoon6]

No, keep Rex please!:rofl: Yeah, Todd Bowles for coach of the year.

[Owen DeBoard]

If you want to see dominant LB play turn on Oakland and watch Kahil Mack dominate. That's what this Bills team needs.

[justasportsfan]

If you want to see dominant LB play turn on Oakland and watch Kahil Mack dominate. That's what this Bills team needs.
Last year this team had a very good front 7. Bradham was a future probowler and Brown was the future leader.

Rex turned the entire DL including the front four into a joke.

[Owen DeBoard]

Bradham and Brown are garbage they are back up LBs at best don't matter whos scheme they play in. Neither do I have faith in tackling.

[mdcas22]

Rex should have never been hired, here are his carrer stats as a head coach. someone tell me why you would hire a sub par 500 coach?
remember he was a d-line coach when the Ravens won that superbowl and had 2 good years in NewYork.


<tbody>
Regular season
51–56 (.477)


Postseason
4–2 (.667)


Career record
55–58 (.487)

</tbody>

[mdcas22]

one more point, when Ryan took over the Jets Mangini built a pretty good nucleolus. those 1st 2 years were good then it went all down hill from there and thats whats gonna happen to Buffalo. look for Ryan to dismantle this defense and bring in more his guys if you haven't noticed already.

[BertSquirtgum]

Bradham and Brown are garbage they are back up LBs at best don't matter whos scheme they play in. Neither do I have faith in tackling.

You're crazy. They were both very good in last years defense.

[Night Train]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2015/12/05/maiorana-fire-ryan-truly-insane-thought/76726934/

[BertSquirtgum]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2015/12/05/maiorana-fire-ryan-truly-insane-thought/76726934/

Reading that article has me rethinking my knee jerk reactions calling for Ryan's firing. I just haven't been able to get over going from the 4th ranked defense to one of the worst. Especially when the big mouth said he would make this defense #1 this season.

[YardRat]

I don't know what's the funniest part of that article...

This...There is no way that firing Ryan and his staff — which I and most NFL observers agree is a pretty solid compilation of coaches — helps the Bills in any way.

This...Ryan is also a very good defensive coach, a bright mind who is respected all around the NFL. He's not having a good year, but that happens to everyone.

Or this...The problems have been obvious: On defense, Ryan has been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

The staff is suspect at best, he's not having a good decade, and, um...duh.

[mdcas22]

I don't care who the coach is you must adjust to your talent not the talent adjust to yours. Bellicheat duz it so did Don Shula and a few others.

[BleedinGreenNC]

I say hell yeah keep Rex last time I checked this team beat the Jets this year.

And yet the Jets are ahead of the Bills in the standings, so.....

[EDS]

I would take Bowles over Rex any day. I think the Bills would be at worst 8-5 if Bowles was the head coach. Living in NYC it is just so obvious that Rex is a mediocre coach. I think a strong and disciplined head coach with defensive personnel that fit Rex's scheme could do well with him as an assistant

[gebobs]

I say hell yeah keep Rex last time I checked this team beat the Jets this year.

Some low bar there.

[sdbillsfan2]

Dear Rex ,
We saw you say you were going to build a "Bully". So far you've castrated a top 5 defense and all we see is bull*****.
Please explain how its all on the refs, injuries and the moon that you can't get the job done. Is it Dougie the suddenly silent one? We really would like to know.
Or maybe ....just maybe its because you've taken all the Jets rejects assembled the in WNY with the same friggin strategy that didnt payoff in the Big Apple and expect success?
Maybe Rex and Doug should stand up and take a lesson fron Scott Norwood.

[OpIv37]

Is it too early to call for Rex's head now?

The guy needs to win 3 straight to tie last year's record with a roster which isn't perfect but is clearly more talented than last year. This isn't the 1990's- we can't keep this D together forever and we won't be able to keep all the offensive skill players forever.

[Owen DeBoard]

No, keep Rex please!

Still a better coach? Rexs team has swept the Jets this year. I think that is all that matters.

[Mace]

Still a better coach? Rexs team has swept the Jets this year. I think that is all that matters.

Yeah I'd rather sweep the Jets every year than have a better record than they do at the end of the season. It just makes everything worthwhile.

[Owen DeBoard]

Yeah I'd rather sweep the Jets every year than have a better record than they do at the end of the season. It just makes everything worthwhile.
First year coach first year starter at QB 18 PLAYERS ON IR what do you expect?

[BleedinGreenNC]

Still a better coach? Rexs team has swept the Jets this year. I think that is all that matters.

Obviously you have bought into the hype, yup, that was your SB. If it means you having a worse record than us every year, then im ok with Rex sweeping the Jets each year. Enjoy that 8-8 record, your team regressed.

- - - Updated - - -


First year coach first year starter at QB 18 PLAYERS ON IR what do you expect?

Rex isnt a first year coach.

[Mace]

First year coach first year starter at QB 18 PLAYERS ON IR what do you expect?

A better record, a better defense, and the playoffs would have been nice ?

[BleedinGreenNC]

A better record, a better defense, and the playoffs would have been nice ?

Dont make sense, your going to confuse him/her.

[Owen DeBoard]

Obviously you have bought into the hype, yup, that was your SB. If it means you having a worse record than us every year, then im ok with Rex sweeping the Jets each year. Enjoy that 8-8 record, your team regressed.

- - - Updated - - -
Its a start cant expect much more with all the injuries and Rex first year as head coach and a QB with his first year starting. I like how this team got this win proves to me that they didn't quit on Rex. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in the offseason but I like how they finished strong and went 4-2 in the division.




Rex isnt a first year coach.

[Owen DeBoard]

A better record, a better defense, and the playoffs would have been nice ?

Yeah it would've been but in a real world that's not possible. I wish I could live in your fantasy land but unfortunately im stuck with reality.

[YardRat]

Fantasy Land is gifting Wrecks Wryan with a top 4 defense and actually expecting it to be the same or even better. Reality is he ****s it up.

[Mace]

Fantasy Land is gifting Wrecks Wryan with a top 4 defense and actually expecting it to be the same or even better. Reality is he ****s it up.

Sort of looks more like reality than fantasy to me.

[Novacane]

Still a better coach? Rexs team has swept the Jets this year. I think that is all that matters.


No. That's not all that matters. Rex ruined a good defense.

[justasportsfan]

Even if Rexs swept the jets the jets improved from last year and can improve on it. Rex on the other hand took a playoff talent filled D and went backwards and will look to rebuild that D. Our D is now full of questionmarks.

If they use the draft to fix this D , how long will it take to become dominant if it even becomes dominant.

[Bill Cody]

First year coach first year starter at QB 18 PLAYERS ON IR what do you expect?

10-6

Rex is an experienced coach who brought in an experienced staff. He didn't switch sports did he? How long does it take to get to know his guys? The QB was not the big problem. Rex took a great defense and turned them into mediocre. Injuries? Tell that to the Patriots, they've had more than us and they're 12-4. You want to make excuses for the fat tub of goo that's fine. I'm not buying it.

[gebobs]

Injuries are a fact of life. Unless you lose a franchise quarterback and don't have a Frank Reich caliber backup, there's no point in bringing injuries up. Every coach has to deal with it.

Sure, Taylor missed a few games, but let's be clear...he is not a franchise QB. The weakness there is that the Bills painted themselves in the corner with EJ. I guess we can thank Ryan for at least bringing him in. Cassel is a chump and Ej is a train wreck. The Bills would have won maybe 5 games with Cassel. If EJ was our boy, they might go oh-fer.