Sammy Watkins Best Ever

[Buffalogic]

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Watkins-first-two-seasons-likely-to-be-the-best-in-Bills-history/4996b46f-5799-40dc-ac22-6f78bc3291ab

Bust?

[Mr. Pink]

Watkins first two seasons likely to be the best in Bills history - the title of this piece...

You know what will happen a few seasons from now when another high draft pick WR comes in? That guy will put up even better stats over his first two years than Watkins. And then the next guy will put up even better numbers.

Of course Watkins has the "best" stats, as the league every year becomes more and more passing oriented.

[Buffalogic]

^ except we are like 30th in the league in pass attempts and he only has 39 catches on the year.

[jamze132]

Just think how much better it could have been if we actually threw him the ball 10+ times per game. he's proven this past month that he can catch it.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Sammy is as good as that trade was terrible.

[Later]

I don't think anyone doubts his talent, but he still has missed too much time to justify the cost.

Hopefully this is a problem he can rectify going forward, but because this is the Bills, I have my doubts.

[Buffalogic]

How many games has he actually missed in two years? Like 3, 4?

[feldspar]

How many games has he actually missed in two years? Like 3, 4?

Three games out of 29.

[Later]

Three games out of 29.

That number will go up the more we throw him the ball.

[feldspar]

That number will go up the more we throw him the ball.

If you say so, sport.

[X-Era]

Watkins first two seasons likely to be the best in Bills history - the title of this piece...

You know what will happen a few seasons from now when another high draft pick WR comes in? That guy will put up even better stats over his first two years than Watkins. And then the next guy will put up even better numbers.

Of course Watkins has the "best" stats, as the league every year becomes more and more passing oriented.65 targets this year... That's not even on par with the average number of targets his way.

[Night Train]

He didn't pull the trade. Holding that against him is silly. Is he a talent ? I say yes.

[Later]

If you say so, sport.

I do.

[Buffalogic]

Watkins is the best. Happy to have him on this team and we did fine in the draft without a first. No sense constantly bringing that up.

[feldspar]

I do.

Well, then it MUST be true.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Watkins is the best. Happy to have him on this team and we did fine in the draft without a first. No sense constantly bringing that up.

If someone is going to talk about Sammy potentially being the 'best ever,' then someone else is going to bring up the cost to obtain him. There's nothing that can be done at this point as that trade was one of the most controversial trades we've had recently.

You say that we did fine in the draft without a first...but so what about that? We could be sitting here with the exact same draft picks we have now, plus and additional 1st rounder. That would be nice, no? Imagine if we had another rookie with Darby's impact, but on offense or at LB.

I'm happy to have Sammy, too. I'm also of the opinion that we paid way too much to get him. You can be on both sides.

[Buffalogic]

If someone is going to talk about Sammy potentially being the 'best ever,' then someone else is going to bring up the cost to obtain him. There's nothing that can be done at this point as that trade was one of the most controversial trades we've had recently.

You say that we did fine in the draft without a first...but so what about that? We could be sitting here with the exact same draft picks we have now, plus and additional 1st rounder. That would be nice, no? Imagine if we had another rookie with Darby's impact, but on offense or at LB.

I'm happy to have Sammy, too. I'm also of the opinion that we paid way too much to get him. You can be on both sides.
There's no potential about it, he's the best WR bills have ever had through two seasons.

And look at the first rounders pick 19 and after. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_NFL_draft

Not a whole lot to be missed so far.

[Joe Fo Sho]

There's no potential about it, he's the best WR bills have ever had through two seasons.

Best ever and best through two seasons are not the same thing. There is still a lot of potential about it.


And look at the first rounders pick 19 and after. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_NFL_draft

Not a whole lot to be missed so far.

"So far" being the operative statement.

Who's to say we would have stayed at 19? The last time the Bills used their #1 pick in its original spot was 2012. Whaley is a dealer.

[Buffalogic]

Best ever and best through two seasons are not the same thing. There is still a lot of potential about it.



"So far" being the operative statement.

Who's to say we would have stayed at 19? The last time the Bills used their #1 pick in its original spot was 2012. Whaley is a dealer.
Did you read the article? The title says best ever through two years.

You are mad about moving up but you use the fact that we couldn't move up the following year as an example? Makes no sense.

[feldspar]

.

You say that we did fine in the draft without a first...but so what about that? We could be sitting here with the exact same draft picks we have now, plus and additional 1st rounder. That would be nice, no? Imagine if we had another rookie with Darby's impact, but on offense or at LB.



OR...

We could have picked a different player besides Sammy two years ago and whiffed on him. Then, with our #1 pick this year, we could have whiffed again...the result being having two bad players instead of one very good one with all the potential in the world.

Or (with the picks we used to get Sammy) we could have whiffed on one first-round pick, and got a lesser decent player with the other.

Or we could have gotten two perennial Pro-Bowlers if not hall of Famers, but I don't see that at all.

You don't know, and you will never know. The only choice you have is to decide how big of a ***** you want to be about it. "Ah, what might have been." No. Decide to be happy with the player, I say, with no asterisks.

The guy is still only 22-and-a-half years old.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Did you read the article?

Judging from the thread title, I could ask you the same thing.


You are mad about moving up but you use the fact that we couldn't move up the following year as an example? Makes no sense.

Who's mad? You guys get too emotional when discussing the Bills.

All I'm saying is we could be sitting much prettier than we are right now, which isn't very pretty at all.

[Buffalogic]

Judging from the thread title, I could ask you the same thing.



Who's mad? You guys get too emotional when discussing the Bills.

All I'm saying is we could be sitting much prettier than we are right now, which isn't very pretty at all.
And we could be much worse off as Feldy pointed out.

You just don't make any sense with anything you have typed in this thread. Too emotional about what? You are just embarrassing yourself a little bit with how you denounce trading up for Sammy, but you use not being able to trade up for someone the following year as an example. It's asinine. Quit while you are behind.

[Joe Fo Sho]

OR...

We could have picked a different player besides Sammy two years ago and whiffed on him. Then, with our #1 pick this year, we could have whiffed again...the result being having two bad players instead of one very good one with all the potential in the world.

Or (with the picks we used to get Sammy) we could have whiffed on one first-round pick, and got a lesser decent player with the other.

Or we could have gotten two perennial Pro-Bowlers if not hall of Famers, but I don't see that at all.

Well...yeah, of course. Some people think Sammy was worth the risk, some people don't.


You don't know, and you will never know. The only choice you have is to decide how big of a ***** you want to be about it. "Ah, what might have been." No. Decide to be happy with the player, I say, with no asterisks.

The thread started with the 'bust?' question. I assumed he wanted to have a conversation about it, apparently not.

[Mr. Pink]

^ except we are like 30th in the league in pass attempts and he only has 39 catches on the year.

Except he gets his yards anyway because all we throw to him now are go patterns.

He's used pretty much the same way Lee Evans was.

[Buffalogic]

Except he gets his yards anyway because all we throw to him now are go patterns.

He's used pretty much the same way Lee Evans was.
Who cares your original point was irrelevant based on his catch totals.

- - - Updated - - -



The thread started with the 'bust?' question. I assumed he wanted to have a conversation about it, apparently not.

Sarcasm is lost on you I guess.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You just don't make any sense with anything you have typed in this thread. Too emotional about what? You are just embarrassing yourself a little bit with how you denounce trading up for Sammy, but you use not being able to trade up for someone the following year as an example. It's asinine. Quit while you are behind.

You said the players at 19 and after in last years draft weren't worth worrying about as an example of why the Sammy trade was good. My response was that you don't know that we wouldn't have picked higher than 19, or even lower and gotten more 2/3 round picks. I didn't think it was that hard to understand.


You are just embarrassing yourself a little bit with how you denounce trading up for Sammy

HEAR HEAR, I DENOUNCE THE SAMMY TRADE! I SAY, DENOUNCED!

[Joe Fo Sho]

Sarcasm is lost on you I guess.

What's the point of this thread then? To have yourself a little circlejerk over how good Sammy is? Carry on, sorry to interrupt.

[Buffalogic]

You said the players at 19 and after in last years draft weren't worth worrying about as an example of why the Sammy trade was good. My response was that you don't know that we wouldn't have picked higher than 19, or even lower and gotten more 2/3 round picks. I didn't think it was that hard to understand.
HEAR HEAR, I DENOUNCE THE SAMMY TRADE! I SAY, DENOUNCED!
It's not hard to understand, it's just stupid.

[Mr. Pink]

Who cares your original point was irrelevant based on his catch totals.

- - - Updated - - -



Sarcasm is lost on you I guess.

The point is not irrelevant. He has more "stats" than any other WR in the team's history through 2 years simply because how the league has evolved. Put any of those WRs from his draft year and round, and they'd all do the exact same thing which is have better stats than any other WR in franchise history through 2 seasons.

Of course Odell wouldn't have the same numbers he gets to enjoy with the Giants here but they'd be on par with Sammy's numbers, probably a little better to be honest because Sammy does tend to a drop a few passes. Put Benjamin here and he'd do much of the same as Sammy and who knows if he gets hurt here as opposed to with Carolina. Brandin Cooks would fit in nicely in the go pattern style Sammy uses so he'd do the same too.

Trying to compare how Sammy is above his predecessors to prove his greatness is a fools game. Of course his numbers are better, the league is different. And there is no way in hell you're gonna try to claim that Sammy is better already than guys like Ahmad Rashad/Bobby Moore, Jerry Butler, Andre Reed, Eric Moulds or even Lee Evans for that matter.

[Buffalogic]

What's the point of this thread then? To have yourself a little circlejerk over how good Sammy is? Carry on, sorry to interrupt.What's the point of your responses? Dreaming about some mythical scenario? But we could have gotten two hall of famers man even though the following year didn't have a good first round!! Ignore that and listen to me cry about hypotheticals!

[Joe Fo Sho]

You just don't make any sense with anything you have typed in this thread.


It's not hard to understand, it's just stupid.

[Buffalogic]

The point is not irrelevant. He has more "stats" than any other WR in the team's history through 2 years simply because how the league has evolved. Put any of those WRs from his draft year and round, and they'd all do the exact same thing which is have better stats than any other WR in franchise history through 2 seasons.

Of course Odell wouldn't have the same numbers he gets to enjoy with the Giants here but they'd be on par with Sammy's numbers, probably a little better to be honest because Sammy does tend to a drop a few passes. Put Benjamin here and he'd do much of the same as Sammy and who knows if he gets hurt here as opposed to with Carolina. Brandin Cooks would fit in nicely in the go pattern style Sammy uses so he'd do the same too.

Trying to compare how Sammy is above his predecessors to prove his greatness is a fools game. Of course his numbers are better, the league is different. And there is no way in hell you're gonna try to claim that Sammy is better already than guys like Ahmad Rashad/Bobby Moore, Jerry Butler, Andre Reed, Eric Moulds or even Lee Evans for that matter.You are saying he has those numbers because the league has evolved so much that 39 receptions was unattainable until now? It's ridiculous.

[Joe Fo Sho]

What's the point of your responses?


The thread started with the 'bust?' question. I assumed he wanted to have a conversation about it, apparently not.

[Mr. Pink]

You are saying he has those numbers because the league has evolved so much that 39 receptions was unattainable until now? It's ridiculous.

Was Andre Reed running nothing but fly patterns in year 2? Was Ahmad Rashad? Was Eric Moulds?

39 catches back 20 years ago + meant you'd have around 400 yards.

[Buffalogic]

Joe you didn't read the article we get it. Nobody with a brain would read that and think the bust comment was a serious question. You are dismissed.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Joe you didn't read the article we get it. Nobody with a brain would read that and think the bust comment was a serious question. You are dismissed.

You still didn't answer what the point of the thread was, then. It was the circlejerk, wasn't it?

[Buffalogic]

Was Andre Reed running nothing but fly patterns in year 2? Was Ahmad Rashad? Was Eric Moulds?

39 catches back 20 years ago + meant you'd have around 400 yards.
Your point about the league evolving is still irrelevant. Now you are saying that fly routes didn't exist 20 years ago? You are babbling.

[Buffalogic]

You still didn't answer what the point of the thread was, then. It was the circlejerk, wasn't it?It was clearly posted to combat the ridiculous thread earlier in the year calling him a bust when he's the best young receiver we have ever had. Why I have to spell that out is insane.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It was clearly posted to combat the ridiculous thread earlier in the year calling him a bust when he's the best young receiver we have ever had. Why I have to spell that out is insane.

So you did want to discuss him being a bust or not! You really should make up your mind, guy.

[Buffalogic]

Sarcasm still lost on you. No bust discussion is needed.

[Joe Fo Sho]

No bust discussion is needed.

Only happy thoughts, guys.

[Mr. Pink]

Your point about the league evolving is still irrelevant. Now you are saying that fly routes didn't exist 20 years ago? You are babbling.

Good lord.

How many WRs 20 years ago+ averaging 18.4 ypc? For some perspective Andre Reed averaged 13.9 ypc for his career, Moulds 13.1 ypc. Hell Jerry Rice, who's likely the greatest WR ever, only averaged 14.8 ypc.

Gain some historical perspective on how much the game has changed and evolved.

[Buffalogic]

Good lord.

How many WRs 20 years ago+ averaging 18.4 ypc? For some perspective Andre Reed averaged 13.9 ypc for his career, Moulds 13.1 ypc. Hell Jerry Rice, who's likely the greatest WR ever, only averaged 14.8 ypc.

Gain some historical perspective on how much the game has changed and evolved.
There's no way Sammy will have that high of YPC after a 15 year career like those other guys had. Good lord stop fighting it. Sammy with 39 catches is not a product of the NFL evolving, neither is his YPC. Lots of teams in the 90's threw more and outgained our 2015 offense. Your original point is invalid. Sammy has the best stats through two years because he gets open, regardless of the route.