The Shiny New Toys

[YardRat]

2015 Shady McCoy-895 rush/292 pass/12 gp = 98.9 ypg avg ($13mil sb/$2.9mil salary)
2014 Fred Jackson-525 rush/501 pass/14 gp = 73.2 ypg avg ($2.6mil salary-2015)

2015 Charles Clay-51 rec/528 yds/3 tds ($10mil sb/$3mil salary)
2014 Scott Chandler-47 rec/497 yds/3 tds ($2.2mil salary-2015)

2015 Percy Harvin-19 rec/218 yds/1 td ($3mil sb/$2.9mil salary)
2014 Mike Williams-8 rec/142 yds/1 td($5.2mil salary)

2015 Tyrod Taylor-63.2 comp %/222.8 ypg/20 tds, 5 int/31 sacks ($2.15 sb/salary/inc)
2014 Kyle Orton-64.2 comp %/251.5 ypg/18 tds, 10 ints/33 sacks ($3mil sb/$5.4 salary)

Clay/Chandler are a wash statistically. Harvin and Williams are also, unless you consider 11 catches for 76 yards significant. Total ypg for RB's and QB's = a difference of (+25.7rb, -28.7qb) -3yards, virtually indistinguishable.

So we doled out $18.55 million dollars of real money for what? Nothing? A wash?

[Novacane]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

The more things change the more they stay the same!

[stuckincincy]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

[QUOTE=YardRat;4170774.

So we doled out $18.55 million dollars of real money for what? Nothing? A wash?[/QUOTE]

A wash...AND a haircut!

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

I can agree that the Clay and McCoy contacts were ill advised, but this is some serious statistical cherry picking.

[YardRat]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

I can agree that the Clay and McCoy contacts were ill advised, but this is some serious statistical cherry picking.

Why is it cherry-picking? Are there other relevant stats I should have used?

[justasportsfan]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

At least we can't say the bills aren't trying or are cheap

[BillsImpossible]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

Horrible contract!

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/lesean-mccoy/

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

Why is it cherry-picking? Are there other relevant stats I should have used?

Well, for one you use per game stats for Jackson and McCoy, but not for Chandler/Clay and Harvin/Williams. Chandler played all 16 games whereas Clay accrued his in 13. Mike Williams was available for 9 games, Harvin for 5.

So roll that in and Clay was worth 40.6 Y/G and .23 TD/G, Chandler was worth 31.1 Y/G and .1875 TD/G

Harvin was worth 43.6 Y/G and .2 TD/G, Williams was worth 15.8 Y/G and .111 TD/G

So both Clay and Harvin were much better players this year on a per-game basis, but got injured. If you want to argue health is a skill, sure, but I'd note that Clay is 3 years younger then Chandler and Harvin's on a one year contract.

Also gonna note that McCoy had much better Y/Carry and Y/Reception then Jackson with fewer fumbles.

And that you ignored Tyrod's 450 rushing yards and 3 TDs vs. Orton's 10 yards and 1 TD, as well as the fact that he attempts and completes downfield throws at a much higher rate.

And that two of those guys are out of football entirely, and the other two have been reduced to bit players on otherwise far superior teams.

I guess my question would be, the offense has clearly improved, going from 21.4 PPG to 24.4 PPG. If you're going to claim that our leading rusher, receiver, and starting QB are "a wash" compared to 2014, how do you explain that? Keeping in mind that:
-Our kicker has gone into the toilet, costing us numerous scoring opportunities.
-Our defense has gone into the toilet, cratering our starting field position and giving us next to no short fields to convert.

As I said, the contracts for McCoy and Clay weren't good. Clay is maybe the 10th best TE in football being paid like the best, and I don't like big contracts for older halfbacks. But they have been a clear improvement over last year.

[Mace]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

Even when we get shiny things they end up not being shiny. I give up on anything turning out right in my lifetime.

[Mace]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

As I said, the contracts for McCoy and Clay weren't good. Clay is maybe the 10th best TE in football being paid like the best, and I don't like big contracts for older halfbacks. But they have been a clear improvement over last year.

I think it comes down to being less than a wash though. They improved positions, not the team. We won't be 9-7 again this year despite the shiny new toys.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

I think it comes down to being less than a wash though. They improved positions, not the team. We won't be 9-7 again this year despite the shiny new toys.

That's on the defense IMO. The defense didn't need any talent, it was an elite unit and it completely collapsed this year. We've somehow mastered the blitzing defense that creates no pressure.

[YardRat]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

Well, for one you use per game stats for Jackson and McCoy, but not for Chandler/Clay and Harvin/Williams. Chandler played all 16 games whereas Clay accrued his in 13. Mike Williams was available for 9 games, Harvin for 5.

I thought using per game was fair for FJax/McCoy considering they both missed time, and actually slanted stats in McCoy's favor considering FJax played almost nothing in a couple of games last season. Harvin/Williams is the best comparison between 2014/2015 considering Watkins, Woods and Hogan are still on the team. Again, 5 starts for Harvin compared to zero for Williams kind of evens that out.

So roll that in and Clay was worth 40.6 Y/G and .23 TD/G, Chandler was worth 31.1 Y/G and .1875 TD/G

.0525 TD's per game, or less thn 1 per season, is not significant, regardless of how it's broken down.

Harvin was worth 43.6 Y/G and .2 TD/G, Williams was worth 15.8 Y/G and .111 TD/G

Again, Harvin started all 5 games, Williams none. Depth chart and contribution-wise, insignificant.

So both Clay and Harvin were much better players this year on a per-game basis, but got injured. If you want to argue health is a skill, sure, but I'd note that Clay is 3 years younger then Chandler and Harvin's on a one year contract.

Clay hasn't outperformed Chandler to justify the acquisition, and Harvin was a waste of money, regardless of length of contract.

Also gonna note that McCoy had much better Y/Carry and Y/Reception then Jackson with fewer fumbles.

Duly noted.

And that you ignored Tyrod's 450 rushing yards and 3 TDs vs. Orton's 10 yards and 1 TD, as well as the fact that he attempts and completes downfield throws at a much higher rate.

Tyrod's rushing yards compared to Orton's are irrelevant...a QB gets paid to throw the ball, and lead the team. Not run. That's why we gave McCoy big money, to run the ball.

And that two of those guys are out of football entirely, and the other two have been reduced to bit players on otherwise far superior teams.

What they are doing now is irrelevant.

I guess my question would be, the offense has clearly improved, going from 21.4 PPG to 24.4 PPG. If you're going to claim that our leading rusher, receiver, and starting QB are "a wash" compared to 2014, how do you explain that? Keeping in mind that:
-Our kicker has gone into the toilet, costing us numerous scoring opportunities.
-Our defense has gone into the toilet, cratering our starting field position and giving us next to no short fields to convert.

As I said, the contracts for McCoy and Clay weren't good. Clay is maybe the 10th best TE in football being paid like the best, and I don't like big contracts for older halfbacks. But they have been a clear improvement over last year.

Buffalo is 16th in the league in ppg in 2015, compared to 18th in 2014. 2 spots up, in the middle of the pack, is insignificant and doesn't indicate a 'clear improvement', especially considering the dollars invested.

[Mace]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

That's on the defense IMO. The defense didn't need any talent, it was an elite unit and it completely collapsed this year. We've somehow mastered the blitzing defense that creates no pressure.

Dunno. It's arguable, but a team that adds that much on offense should have won more games using it. They pout up a lot of garbage time stats. So then it's on the coaching staff, or it's on injuries.

In the end though they spent a lot of money and lost more games, so the bottom line is that it didn't win more games spending more money on upgrading positions.

[YardRat]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

Pegula threw out the window an additional $18.8mil in cold hard cash and got results that amount to somewhere between nothing and barely negligible...and that's not even getting into wins and losses.

[Mace]

Re: The Shiny New Toys

Pegula threw out the window an additional $18.8mil in cold hard cash and got results that amount to somewhere between nothing and barely negligible...and that's not even getting into wins and losses.

Same as he did with the Sabres at the start.