Roman - Stay or Go?

[Mahdi]

Just wondering what the general consensus is with regards to Roman.

Personally, I would rather see a more traditional OC brought in because I am seeing that Roman's system is way too predictable which is why it stalls so often.

It seems the system only works because of Tyrod's ability to break the pocket and run. Without that its a very easy offense to defend if you're a decent DC or defensive unit. In fact I just don't see where Roman has a real influence on our attack at all. Everything is based on the threat of Tyrod running. Even when he isn't scrambling almost every snap involves the option.

If the idea is to make the playoffs I don't see it happening with this gimmick offense and even if we do make it to the playoffs, when is the last time such a gimmicky offense made it to the SB?

That is not even considering the fact that at some point Tyrod is going to get injured again with all these drive saving runs.

Would rather have a Gary Kubiak type offense that emphasizes boots, moving the pocket and the run game.

[casdhf]

You want an offense that uses boots and the run game? Uh .....

He stays. His offense is effective given what we have.

[Night Train]

I understand the thought.. but we keep wanting to blow everything up every year, due to the playoff drought. Year 1 of a QB is a limited playbook. I expected growing pains from the O and felt the team issue was the scheme on the D side. This unit was going to run often and keep throws to a minimum to reduce turnovers, due to an inexperienced QB.

I thought rollouts with simple swing passes to the RB's or TE's were something they could have used. Taylor can do that with his mobility, much like Kap did in San Fran a couple years back. It moves the D back 7 around and keeps them off balance. I'd expect Roman to add a little more to Taylors' playbook next year.

The D needs to improve far more than the O.

[Mahdi]

I understand the thought.. but we keep wanting to blow everything up every year, due to the playoff drought. Year 1 of a QB is a limited playbook. I expected growing pains from the O and felt the team issue was the scheme on the D side. This unit was going to run often and keep throws to a minimum to reduce turnovers, due to an inexperienced QB.

I thought rollouts with simple swing passes to the RB's or TE's were something they could have used. Taylor can do that with his mobility, much like Kap did in San Fran a couple years back. It moves the D back 7 around and keeps them off balance. I'd expect Roman to add a little more to Taylors' playbook next year.

The D needs to improve far more than the O.

Agreed but as in SF, defenses caught on to Roman's offense eventually and its arguable as to who is a better passer between Tyrod and Kap.

I can just see us having serious difficulty next year when the coaches sit Tyrod down and tell him he can run as much and has to start throwing from the pocket with Roman's "Playbook" more like "play sheet."

The offense is too heavily reliant on the option and I highly doubt Tyrod learned enough about being a passer this year to suggest he will grow next year and be able to throw out of more conventional formations and concepts. All his throws are out of option right now and 95% of his completions are on the boundary.

It's a recipe for disaster next year.

[BidsJr]

Stupid

[Mahdi]

Stupid

Never understood people stopping by a thread, reading, and posting nothing but a one word insult.

It's immature and childish but you're probably a teen or something so it's fine.

One day you'll learn to offer an opinion and use more productive language.

[justasportsfan]

Thats like asking if we should get rid of Donnie Henserson whose unit has been the best since he became db coach.

As far as I'm concerned, not only did Roman do his job, but he also made no.1 in the league inspite of all the injuries.

The passing game has a lot to be desired but IMO, it's on the inexperienced qb who can only read one side of the field and needs to improve throwing in the middle.

[Mahdi]

Thats like asking if we should get rid of Donnie Henserson whose unit has been the best since he became db coach.

As far as I'm concerned, not only did Roman do his job, but he also made no.1 in the league inspite of all the injuries.

The passing game has a lot to be desired but IMO, it's on the inexperienced qb who can only read one side of the field and needs to improve throwing in the middle.

I get that. I know Roman has managed to get the run game going but you need to be able to throw the football to get to the playoffs.

You blame Tyrod for not being able to read the field but I am putting the blame on Roman for not using more effective playcalling to highlight his QB's strengths and the strengths of Watkins. EVERY team in the league uses WR screens effectively which is something Sammy and Harvin would kill at. We also never just throw it directly to the WR immediately off the snap when DBs are playing 10 yards off coverage. It makes no sense.

Also, even the success he gets credit for for having a good run game is heavily linked to the fact that Tyrod is such a threat to run and is adding 60-70 extra yards on the ground almost every game. That skews the stats. Not to mention the fact that defenses are scared of the backside in case Tyrod keeps it which is opening things up for the RBs.

Either way, at some point this offense will end because Tyrod will get injured again taking so many shots. What will Roman do then?

And this doesn't compare to Donnie Henderson because our DBs have been excellent in terms of the position and being developed. Whereas Roman continues to run a "variety" of 3 plays that has our offense stalling game after game.

Does anyone think we would have won the game yesterday if Romo and Bryant were playing?

[sukie]

Kinda hard to call plays for a QB that mostly locks into a receiver... Unless he got better at checking off later in the season.

[Mahdi]

It's also hard for a QB to be productive as a passer when your OC has you running the same plays over and over.

Having a defense off balance helps a young QB be more productive throwing the ball.

[sukie]

couldn't some of that be on Tyrod though?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

If you're asking when the last time an option heavy run first attack made the Super Bowl, I'd point out that it's represented the NFC in the last three. Wilson has improved as a passer with time, but his legs were still important in allowing Lynch some room against stacked boxes or to let his guys get downfield.

[Mahdi]

If you're asking when the last time an option heavy run first attack made the Super Bowl, I'd point out that it's represented the NFC in the last three. Wilson has improved as a passer with time, but his legs were still important in allowing Lynch some room against stacked boxes or to let his guys get downfield.

I know the Hawks are a run heavy team but Wilson airs it out better than most QBs in the league minus Brady, Manning, Rodgers. As a passer he is in or near top 5 in the league.

His OC (Darrell Bevell) is also running an open playbook with all kinds of concepts and formations that include a lot of traditional formations. Not anything like this college offense Roman runs.

[Mahdi]

couldn't some of that be on Tyrod though?

You think Tyrod can't run play-action roll outs?

WR screens?

How dangerous would Tyrod be running a stretch play - play fake to McCoy then booting out to the backside with Sammy and Clay running a hi-low back across the field?

[sukie]

You think Tyrod can't run play-action roll outs?

WR screens?

How dangerous would Tyrod be running a stretch play - play fake to McCoy then booting out to the backside with Sammy and Clay running a hi-low back across the field?

Perhaps he is not that good at play action...

[Victor7]

Stay

He drives me mad some times with the cute play calling on occasion. Other times he's predictable but for the most part he delivered. At the beginning of the season we all knew this was going to be a run heavy, use the QB as little as possible and rely on defense team. Roman held his end of the deal. It was Rex that didn't deliver. Our run game has been stellar despite the mediocre line and the injuries to our backs. Taylor's progress is not just him. You are crazy if you don't think Roman has a big influence on that. Wanna see TT regress ?? Fire Roman and bring in a new system.

Roman can stay. Just ask him to be a bit less predictable. He tends to stick too much to a couple of plays every game. Also no more of those cute fantasy plays. Be more straight forward and get Sammy more touches no matter what.

[Mahdi]

Stay

He drives me mad some times with the cute play calling on occasion. Other times he's predictable but for the most part he delivered. At the beginning of the season we all knew this was going to be a run heavy, use the QB as little as possible and rely on defense team. Roman held his end of the deal. It was Rex that didn't deliver. Our run game has been stellar despite the mediocre line and the injuries to our backs. Taylor's progress is not just him. You are crazy if you don't think Roman has a big influence on that. Wanna see TT regress ?? Fire Roman and bring in a new system.

Roman can stay. Just ask him to be a bit less predictable. He tends to stick too much to a couple of plays every game. Also no more of those cute fantasy plays. Be more straight forward and get Sammy more touches no matter what.

Do you really think what you are suggesting will happen though or is that just your fan view that you hope will be carried out?

Also, do you really think this type of offense will get us into the playoffs in the AFCE or in the AFC in general?

Steelers, Chargers, Dolphins, Texans, Colts, Raiders, Ravens and even the Jaguars will all have better teams next year than this year.

All those teams have good passers and will be threats to us.

[justasportsfan]

I get that. I know Roman has managed to get the run game going but you need to be able to throw the football to get to the playoffs.

You blame Tyrod for not being able to read the field but I am putting the blame on Roman for not using more effective playcalling to highlight his QB's strengths and the strengths of Watkins. EVERY team in the league uses WR screens effectively which is something Sammy and Harvin would kill at. We also never just throw it directly to the WR immediately off the snap when DBs are playing 10 yards off coverage. It makes no sense.

Also, even the success he gets credit for for having a good run game is heavily linked to the fact that Tyrod is such a threat to run and is adding 60-70 extra yards on the ground almost every game. That skews the stats. Not to mention the fact that defenses are scared of the backside in case Tyrod keeps it which is opening things up for the RBs.

Either way, at some point this offense will end because Tyrod will get injured again taking so many shots. What will Roman do then?

And this doesn't compare to Donnie Henderson because our DBs have been excellent in terms of the position and being developed. Whereas Roman continues to run a "variety" of 3 plays that has our offense stalling game after game.

Does anyone think we would have won the game yesterday if Romo and Bryant were playing?

Tyrods strengths are running the ball and the deep passes. I don't know if you've been watching but Tyrods doing very well in both areas. Besides, you don't want to run Tyrod all the time and risk injury . He's already been injured.

As far as Donnie and Roman comparison is concerned, it's relevant because they both get the job done.

[justasportsfan]

You think Tyrod can't run play-action roll outs?

WR screens? how do you know those calls weren't made? Tyrod has been given some power to make changes at e4h LOS. Watch the games.


How dangerous would Tyrod be running a stretch play - play fake to McCoy then booting out to the backside with Sammy and Clay running a hi-low back across the field?
thats also a recipe for injury . You don't need to run the qb much when we have 3 very good rb's.

make up your mind



That being said, the Taylor/Roman combination is not a playoff contending one. You need to be able to throw in this league and Taylor bailing out the offense on almost every drive with a run for first down is going to get old and he will get injured doing that over and over.

[Victor7]

Do you really think what you are suggesting will happen though or is that just your fan view that you hope will be carried out?

Also, do you really think this type of offense will get us into the playoffs in the AFCE or in the AFC in general?

Steelers, Chargers, Dolphins, Texans, Colts, Raiders, Ravens and even the Jaguars will all have better teams next year than this year.

All those teams have good passers and will be threats to us.

What did I suggest ? Not sure I understand your question.

I think that year 2 of the system should be better. The run game is there already. If Taylor takes a few steps forward we are gonna be in a good position.

If our defense had held up their end of the deal we would be in the playoffs with this offense. So yeah I think it makes it.

I don't really understand how you can say those teams will have a better team next year when you don't even know what's gonna happen to their coaching staffs, free agents and drafts.

[Mahdi]

Tyrods strengths are running the ball and the deep passes. I don't know if you've been watching but Tyrods doing very well in both areas. Besides, you don't want to run Tyrod all the time and risk injury . He's already been injured.

As far as Donnie and Roman comparison is concerned, it's relevant because they both get the job done.

Running the ball and deep passes as a QB are not what win you games.

You need to make plays in the intermediate pass game and be able to make traditional throws to challenge good defenses.

We had 31 minutes of possession yesterday and scored only 16 points. That only worked because Dallas had no one on offense.

[Mahdi]

What did I suggest ? Not sure I understand your question.

I think that year 2 of the system should be better. The run game is there already. If Taylor takes a few steps forward we are gonna be in a good position.

If our defense had held up their end of the deal we would be in the playoffs with this offense. So yeah I think it makes it.

I don't really understand how you can say those teams will have a better team next year when you don't even know what's gonna happen to their coaching staffs, free agents and drafts.

Don't forget that our offense was shut down for the better part of most games. Statistically we look ok on offense but the reality is this is not a good offense.

Too many 3 and outs. Same plays repeated, and lack of threat to the middle of the field.

[Mahdi]

how do you know those calls weren't made? Tyrod has been given some power to make changes at e4h LOS. Watch the games.


thats also a recipe for injury . You don't need to run the qb much when we have 3 very good rb's.

make up your mind

who said anything about running the QB? PA fake is a pass play not a run play.

[Victor7]

Don't forget that our offense was shut down for the better part of most games. Statistically we look ok on offense but the reality is this is not a good offense.

Too many 3 and outs. Same plays repeated, and lack of threat to the middle of the field.

If you are arguing that we are not a juggernaut I agree. We had basically a rookie QB, a myriad of injuries and a ****ty OL. Like I said in my original post. If Roman can clean up his play calling a bit and Taylor takes a step or two forward I see no reason for this offense not to be better in year 2.

I agree about the using the middle of the field. I also think Sammy needs to be more involved. There's room for improvement for sure. But canning the guy after one year when in the grand scheme of things the offense did function would be insane.

[feldspar]

Face it. Roman, Rex, Whaley, Brandon, and Taylor are staying put for next year. Fact of life.

Should this be the case? Yeah, I think so, all things considered. Maybe calling for their heads makes some people feel better, but it just ain't gonna happen.

I wouldn't mind drafting a QB or bringing in somebody to compete at that position. That would be smart, but Tyrod has played well enough to get another shot to develop further in this offense unless there is a better option out there to be had, which I don't see.

But axing Roman would make no sense.

[justasportsfan]

Running the ball and deep passes as a QB are not what win you games. huh? We won the game yesterday by running the ball. What were you watching



You need to make plays in the intermediate pass game and be able to make traditional throws to challenge good defenses.
I agree, we need more than just the deep ball in the passing game but how is that Romans fault when the QB cannot throw up the middle unless he's scrambling?





We had 31 minutes of possession yesterday and scored only 16 points. That only worked because Dallas had no one on offense.
again, that not on Roman. As a matter of fact, Roman did a good job with all the injuries to his top players.


Lets agree to disagree. If you think getting rid of the people WHO GOT THE JOB DONE is a good idea, then thats you. If you haven't learned that changing a system every year is a bad idea , nothing I can do. You must love the defense this year after another change from last year and the year before.

[Mahdi]

Fair enough,

I've just seen this situation before. A QB or offense or both with serious limitations comes in and has some success but show clear weaknesses but we ignore it in the name of development...

Fitzpatrick and Edwards are perfect examples.

Only Firtz has a good OC that mixes things up and uses play calling to hurt the D.

Edwards had serious issues we ignored them and lost another year searching for his replacement when the signs were there.

This team needs a vet QB like Brees or Palmer and move Taylor to backup.

Get a real NFL OC not a college play caller.

[paladin warrior]

He stay 1 more year and he need to fix with too many penalty.holding, off side..etc.. Defensive coach need to go .

[feldspar]

.

This team needs a vet QB like Brees or Palmer and move Taylor to backup.

.

Lol, would you listen to yourself?

These guys don't grow on trees.

[Mr. Cynical]

I get that. I know Roman has managed to get the run game going but you need to be able to throw the football to get to the playoffs.

You blame Tyrod for not being able to read the field but I am putting the blame on Roman for not using more effective playcalling to highlight his QB's strengths and the strengths of Watkins. EVERY team in the league uses WR screens effectively which is something Sammy and Harvin would kill at. We also never just throw it directly to the WR immediately off the snap when DBs are playing 10 yards off coverage. It makes no sense.

Also, even the success he gets credit for for having a good run game is heavily linked to the fact that Tyrod is such a threat to run and is adding 60-70 extra yards on the ground almost every game. That skews the stats. Not to mention the fact that defenses are scared of the backside in case Tyrod keeps it which is opening things up for the RBs.

Either way, at some point this offense will end because Tyrod will get injured again taking so many shots. What will Roman do then?

And this doesn't compare to Donnie Henderson because our DBs have been excellent in terms of the position and being developed. Whereas Roman continues to run a "variety" of 3 plays that has our offense stalling game after game.

Does anyone think we would have won the game yesterday if Romo and Bryant were playing?

This, above all else, is what kills me. How many times have we seen others do this EVERY time on a 3rd down and make it more than not. Brady to Amendola/Edelman on a quick slant over the middle should be carved in stone on the playbook.

But, here's the potential issue.

Tyrod isn't quick enough in his decision making process to get the ball out fast enough to make that play. One would assume that if he knows that's the play he could do it, but it's the only explanation I can think of, other than Roman is an idiot.

[The King]

http://www.billszone.com/wp-content/uploads/KCWeek162015.jpg

[swiper]

Never understood people stopping by a thread, reading, and posting nothing but a one word insult.

It's immature and childish but you're probably a teen or something so it's fine.

One day you'll learn to offer an opinion and use more productive language.

Because offering your foolish posts more than a single, pointed word is a waste of one's time. There's your explanation. Consider it a gift.

Mahdi = one of the worst posters littering this board

[YardRat]

The D needs to improve far more than the O.

What a difference one season and a head coach hire can make, huh?

[YardRat]

FWIW I'm OK with Roman sticking around, would like to see how the offense can improve in season two. I would, however, suggest that he be given the opportunity to hire his own assistants instead of being forced to work with Wrecks' dummies. Still need to give him one or two olinemen, and a couple of QB's because I'm not that confident Taylor is going to improve that much over what he is now.

[Mahdi]

Because offering your foolish posts more than a single, pointed word is a waste of one's time. There's your explanation. Consider it a gift.

Mahdi = one of the worst posters littering this board

I've been right about a lot of things and wrong about a lot of things.

Hence why we come here to offer opinions. I never claimed my opinion was fact.

What is fact is that you can't seem to understand the point of a board.

Not liking Roman's offense and not being comfortable with Taylor as the anointed "future QB" is not unrealistic.

[Mahdi]

Lol, would you listen to yourself?

These guys don't grow on trees.

Maybe not but they have been quite readily available.

Palmer was scrapped by both the Bengals and the Raiders before he landed with the Cards.

Everyone thought Warner was washed up after his time with the Giants.

Maybe Peyton Manning will be looking for work in the offseason and everyone will think he too is old and useless.

Ryan Fitzpatrick was a Bill.

Kirk Cousins was available last offseason. Doubt it would have cost more than a 3rd at that time. Now of course he is locked in.

Jay Cutler would be a great option

Sam Bradford is FA this year

Chad Henne is another option

Obviously not all these QBs are on the same level but all IMO would have something to offer in terms of providing a veteran presence that have good arms and the ability to make all the necessary throws.

[sukie]

Chad Henne? Wait what?

[Mahdi]

Chad Henne? Wait what?

Chad Henne has a good arm. He's been on some bad teams though.

From what I have seen from him he can be a good passer with the right pieces around him.

That being said, he would not be a target for a starting role but at least vet backup.

[Mace]

FWIW I'm OK with Roman sticking around, would like to see how the offense can improve in season two. I would, however, suggest that he be given the opportunity to hire his own assistants instead of being forced to work with Wrecks' dummies. Still need to give him one or two olinemen, and a couple of QB's because I'm not that confident Taylor is going to improve that much over what he is now.

Yes yes yes.

For all my complaining, I'm fine with Roman for what he is, a creative run game guy.

I believe Lee and Lal have their clueless mitts in the passing/playcalling pie. I'm no fan of them and can't comprehend why we hired them, like Roman would get 3 influential former Jets assistants (including Sparano Jr.) from a junk passing offense on his own.

[Mahdi]

Although I didn't like his offense I'm not sure what to think of Anthony Lynn either...

I have a feeling there will be calls for his head soon enough.