The importance of Kyle Williams

[toto8]

Meatball along with Fred Jackson (now gone) has been one of my favorite players in a long time. I always liked the way Kyle plays with his high motor and never give up attitute.

I came upon this article that shows how much he was missed on defense. http://buffalofambase.org/2016/02/05/defensive-spotlight-kyle-williams/

I hate to read some of the posters on the several message boards I follow when they complain about Kyle not being a good player and he is bad against the run. If you ask me he is worth every penny he is going to make this year and he should be a player that the bills need to retain.

After reading the article I can definitely say that Kyle's injury affected our defense a lot more than what we thought. Check it out is a good read.

PS. I also read some other articles that are mentioned in the one above. There are some good ones like this one: http://cover1.net/news/2016/1/21/2015-bills-defensive-study-defensive-line

[Mace]

Meatball along with Fred Jackson (now gone) has been one of my favorite players in a long time. I always liked the way Kyle plays with his high motor and never give up attitute.

I came upon this article that shows how much he was missed on defense. http://buffalofambase.org/2016/02/05/defensive-spotlight-kyle-williams/

I hate to read some of the posters on the several message boards I follow when they complain about Kyle not being a good player and he is bad against the run. If you ask me he is worth every penny he is going to make this year and he should be a player that the bills need to retain.

After reading the article I can definitely say that Kyle's injury affected our defense a lot more than what we thought. Check it out is a good read.

PS. I also read some other articles that are mentioned in the one above. There are some good ones like this one: http://cover1.net/news/2016/1/21/2015-bills-defensive-study-defensive-line

I would have thought Kyle would have been a great asset and valuable weapon to a defensive genius/innovator like Ryan, but I am still horrified remembering him dropping into coverage, and recalling the time they had dropped him into the flat to shadow Mariota in case he ran.

In most cases I'd say absolutely he is someone to retain, for his motor, gap shooting ability, snap count anticipation, and leadership, though I have to agree he's never been a good run defender, but I'm not real confident Ryan has a clue what to do with him, and would like to see him spend the end of his career with a team that can use him, and give him a chance at a Super Bowl.

I don't have a clue what Ryan expects out of the role Kyle plays and he's probably one of the few players I'd rather see move on just for his personal chances, without wanting to try and hang onto him to ruin the rest of his playing days.

[toto8]

Mace

Read the second article.

Here is a quote from the article "A key cog in the "cold front" is veteran Kyle Williams. He may be more important to the defensive line unit than anyone else. As I have covered in the Linebacker study (http://cover1.net/news/2016/1/6/linebackers), through the first six games the defensive unit surrendered 87 rushing yards a game. After his injury, the defense was gashed for 121 yards a game. Dareus went from 5th in stop percentage (12.3%) when Kyle was in the lineup to 11th with 9.5%. According to Pro Football Focus (PFF), Stops constitute a "loss" for the offense therefore run stop percentage is the percentage of run defense snaps where the player made a stop. Mario's run stop percentage went from 4.3% to 1.7% once Kyle was out of the lineup, while Jerry's went up from 5.9% to 8.1%. The constant double teams of Dareus seemed to help Jerry more than others, primarily because he typically was lined up at Rush LB (play-making position)." He is a better run defender than everyone thinks.

I agree with you that the biggest fault of our defensive problems was Rex I was reading an article yesterday about coach Wade Phillips and how good coaches adjust their system to the players and not the other way around. It's a sad deal because I hate to see the defense getting rebuild once again, like many other posters have complained about the rebuilding process I am tired to be in rebuilding mode every year.

It seems like one year is the defense the other the offense and so on and on and on.

[swiper]

Kyle Williams is perhaps one of the best 5th round draft picks the Bills ever made. But he's 32. And injured a lot recently. He was one of my favorite recent Bills. Right there behind FJax. But he ought to go the way of Peyton Manning soon. That is: out to pasture. That said, I'm certainly not against the Bills letting him prove me completely wrong next season. The line is better overall when he's in it.

[toto8]

Well he's been injured a couple of times but he's been a very reliable player out of 160 games played since he came to the league he has only missed 24 games and most of them in the 2011 season when he had the Achilles injury (missed 11) and this last season (missed 10) besides that he played then entire 2012 and 2013 season and missed 1 game in 2014.

I know he is old for NFL standards but I think he can still produce as long as he plays with Dareus and Hughes

[swiper]

Well he's been injured a couple of times but he's been a very reliable player out of 160 games played since he came to the league he has only missed 24 games and most of them in the 2011 season when he had the Achilles injury (missed 11) and this last season (missed 10) besides that he played then entire 2012 and 2013 season and missed 1 game in 2014.

I know he is old for NFL standards but I think he can still produce as long as he plays with Dareus and Hughes

No one is going to disagree this defense is better with him in there.

But he has to prove his durability. If he does that, great. I am certainly a fan. But I am a skeptical one at this point. And I think Whaley has that spot high on his list of draft needs.

[Victor7]

The 1st article is very good

The 2nd one starts by saying the DLine was the most disappointing unit on defense. I stopped reading right there. It was the linebackers and its not even close. As a player if you wanna say Mario was the most disappointing I'm game, but the whole unit ? Certainly not worse than the middling linebacker unit we have.

As for Kyle. I think he needs to be back. He needs a chance to prove he's still worthy. He was hurt, he wasn't a little ***** or underperformed ala MW. Besides his leadership was sorely missed. Specially after Whaley's "brilliant" move of letting Jackson go.

Bring him back Rex. Your ass is already on thin ice with your underwhelming defense and buddy hires. Watch what happens if you can Kyle.

[toto8]

I think his injury this last season was more bad luck than anything else. If someone rolls on your knee like that is more likely that you will get injured it doesn't matter how strong you are. Don't you think?

[swiper]

Didn't somebody roll on his ankle in that achilles injury also?

[toto8]

The 1st article is very good

The 2nd one starts by saying the DLine was the most disappointing unit on defense. I stopped reading right there. It was the linebackers and its not even close. As a player if you wanna say Mario was the most disappointing I'm game, but the whole unit ? Certainly not worse than the middling linebacker unit we have.

As for Kyle. I think he needs to be back. He needs a chance to prove he's still worthy. He was hurt, he wasn't a little ***** or underperformed ala MW. Besides his leadership was sorely missed. Specially after Whaley's "brilliant" move of letting Jackson go.

Bring him back Rex. Your ass is already on thin ice with your underwhelming defense and buddy hires. Watch what happens if you can Kyle.

Well the reason they said there were disappointing was because the money that was invested, the injury of Kyle and the fact that the defensive line couldn't overcome that also Mario not playing to the level he was expected to play.

[toto8]

Didn't somebody roll on his ankle in that achilles injury also?

Probably, I honestly don't remember. One of the Achilles was torn the other one had bone spurs that were surgically removed.

[OpIv37]

I guess it rains down in Africa.

[YardRat]

Mace

Read the second article.

Here is a quote from the article "A key cog in the "cold front" is veteran Kyle Williams. He may be more important to the defensive line unit than anyone else. As I have covered in the Linebacker study (http://cover1.net/news/2016/1/6/linebackers), through the first six games the defensive unit surrendered 87 rushing yards a game. After his injury, the defense was gashed for 121 yards a game. Dareus went from 5th in stop percentage (12.3%) when Kyle was in the lineup to 11th with 9.5%. According to Pro Football Focus (PFF), Stops constitute a "loss" for the offense therefore run stop percentage is the percentage of run defense snaps where the player made a stop. Mario's run stop percentage went from 4.3% to 1.7% once Kyle was out of the lineup, while Jerry's went up from 5.9% to 8.1%. The constant double teams of Dareus seemed to help Jerry more than others, primarily because he typically was lined up at Rush LB (play-making position)." He is a better run defender than everyone thinks.

I agree with you that the biggest fault of our defensive problems was Rex I was reading an article yesterday about coach Wade Phillips and how good coaches adjust their system to the players and not the other way around. It's a sad deal because I hate to see the defense getting rebuild once again, like many other posters have complained about the rebuilding process I am tired to be in rebuilding mode every year.

It seems like one year is the defense the other the offense and so on and on and on.

So you're the author?

[Mace]

The 1st article is very good

The 2nd one starts by saying the DLine was the most disappointing unit on defense. I stopped reading right there. It was the linebackers and its not even close. As a player if you wanna say Mario was the most disappointing I'm game, but the whole unit ? Certainly not worse than the middling linebacker unit we have.

As for Kyle. I think he needs to be back. He needs a chance to prove he's still worthy. He was hurt, he wasn't a little ***** or underperformed ala MW. Besides his leadership was sorely missed. Specially after Whaley's "brilliant" move of letting Jackson go.

Bring him back Rex. Your ass is already on thin ice with your underwhelming defense and buddy hires. Watch what happens if you can Kyle.

I still remember Kyles injury, you could see it wasn't good, right away. I can't even agree the Dline or LB's were the most disappointing on defense, the coaching was catastrophic.

There were parts of the second article I can't agree with, when it talks about Rex's supposed attempt to "merge" defenses. He just didn't, or he'd not have been dropping linemen into coverage nor confusing his lb's with late playcalls. It was way more than terminology, it was philosophy.

I'd love to have Kyle back and think he should belong, but there's a big diff between "should" and "does" that I'm not comfortable with regarding Ryan.

[Mace]

So you're the author?

Heh, that was part of the quote.

[toto8]

So you're the author?


No I am not that was a quote from the article. I just came across this on my twitter feed and I thought I share it here.

[Mace]

No I am not that was a quote from the article. I just came across this on my twitter feed and I thought I share it here.

People might notice Yardrat is still a little loopy after coming off the ropes and hitting the canvas too hard after losing some bet he made with someone.

[YardRat]

People might notice Yardrat is still a little loopy after coming off the ropes and hitting the canvas too hard after losing some bet he made with someone.

You should be grateful I showed you the light regarding the defense, not vindictive. :D

[BillsImpossible]

He's a damn good, fast Meatball that has been the anchor of the Bills defense for the last 5 seasons or more.

One thing Kyle Williams doesn't get credit for is his speed. He never quits on a play.

He's quick on the line, and he's quick on his feet. KW moves well for 6'1 303 lb giant Meatball.

It's not rare to see him making plays 10 yards or more down the field.

His motor is far from being shot, but his career in Buffalo is riding on how well his knee heals.

If Kyle Williams can come back from an Achilles injury in the past, his body will be well rested, recuperated and good to go for at least 2 more seasons.

[toto8]

People might notice Yardrat is still a little loopy after coming off the ropes and hitting the canvas too hard after losing some bet he made with someone.

I didn't know what you were talking about until I just saw this http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/228625-Source-Chandler-to-Patriots/page5

Now everything is clear to me. Sucks that you have to show that ****ty logo YardRat I feel sorry for you.

[mightysimi]

Who was rushing the QB if Mario, Kyle and Dareus drop on every play? That's all I hear is that we always drop lineman. I bet each of them dropped on less than 10% of the plays. While we are on the subject of lineman dropping, how about we research Lebeau, Dick and see if he had any success with that plan.

[YardRat]

So 10% of Wrecks' ineptitude was dropping linemen, and the other 90% is because he's simply a clueless ****ing buffoon. That sounds about right.

[Mace]

Who was rushing the QB if Mario, Kyle and Dareus drop on every play? That's all I hear is that we always drop lineman. I bet each of them dropped on less than 10% of the plays. While we are on the subject of lineman dropping, how about we research Lebeau, Dick and see if he had any success with that plan.

DB's...actually, he didn't even blitz with them, just feebly faked it sometimes.

You just found the key to the question of "who was rushing the QB". No one was. That's why we had the fewest sacks in 38 years for the Bills since the NFL went to a 16 game schedule. If you really think about this, seriously, a lot of things will become unavoidably clear to you.

It's not even so much dropping linemen into coverage, as much as it's dropping your pass rushing 300 lb DT's into coverage. You notice I don't mention Mario when this comes up. There is no reasonable world in which you expect Kyle Williams and Dareus to effectively cover any one in defense against the pass. I'm sorry, but it's just what it is. By the same token, like who is it that plugs the line or rushes when they drop back ? The answer is your coverage guys.

If you really think about that as well, even more becomes clear. It makes no sense covering with your rushers and rushing your coverage guys unless you are delusional.

Hughes dropped into coverage 58 times, Mario 28 times, Dareus 5, and Kyle 15. Corbin Bryant dropped 15 times. We dropped that many pass rushing productions sacks into coverage 121 times.

Now you tell me why we had the fewest sacks for a Bills team in 38 years since they went to a 16 game season one year after we had 33 more of them ?

[Mace]

I didn't know what you were talking about until I just saw this http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/228625-Source-Chandler-to-Patriots/page5

Now everything is clear to me. Sucks that you have to show that ****ty logo YardRat I feel sorry for you.

Would have sucked more if I had to, though I suppose it's related to personal perspective.

[YardRat]

3 days down, and no deflated balls yet...

[Mace]

3 days down, and no deflated balls yet...

Had no doubt you have some PSI, hombre.

[mightysimi]

DB's...actually, he didn't even blitz with them, just feebly faked it sometimes.

You just found the key to the question of "who was rushing the QB". No one was. That's why we had the fewest sacks in 38 years for the Bills since the NFL went to a 16 game schedule. If you really think about this, seriously, a lot of things will become unavoidably clear to you.

It's not even so much dropping linemen into coverage, as much as it's dropping your pass rushing 300 lb DT's into coverage. You notice I don't mention Mario when this comes up. There is no reasonable world in which you expect Kyle Williams and Dareus to effectively cover any one in defense against the pass. I'm sorry, but it's just what it is. By the same token, like who is it that plugs the line or rushes when they drop back ? The answer is your coverage guys.

If you really think about that as well, even more becomes clear. It makes no sense covering with your rushers and rushing your coverage guys unless you are delusional.

Hughes dropped into coverage 58 times, Mario 28 times, Dareus 5, and Kyle 15. Corbin Bryant dropped 15 times. We dropped that many pass rushing productions sacks into coverage 121 times.

Now you tell me why we had the fewest sacks for a Bills team in 38 years since they went to a 16 game season one year after we had 33 more of them ?

I totally get what you are saying. What I am saying is that it can work and there is a history of it working. Based on these stats, their production should have only slipped by 11% because every time they dropped. If the guys can get home quickly (which is the design) then a DT or DE being 3 or 4 yards deep isn't tragic because the WR or TE haven't had a chance to get there or the hot WR will be dragging or hooking right where they are or more precisely where they are supposed to be. If they don't get there well we all saw what happened. Some of this is on scheme. I think he does outsmart himself and try to get too cute but like I will continue to say, lots of this is on the players too. You have to beat the guy in front of you. That's why they are paid a ton. They weren't all doubled on every play. I saw enough times of our players getting stonewalled by generic Tackles and Guards to last me a lifetime.

Can he make the adjustments? That's the question and I'm a little skeptical but I do want to see what happens when they are all in on the D.

Plus we have all seen Kyle's sweet mitts. :)


http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Cant-Miss-Play-Kyle-Williams-1st-Interception/9d0a1397-db1c-4d70-b710-afcc421a5a1c

[Mace]

I totally get what you are saying. What I am saying is that it can work and there is a history of it working. Based on these stats, their production should have only slipped by 11% because every time they dropped. If the guys can get home quickly (which is the design) then a DT or DE being 3 or 4 yards deep isn't tragic because the WR or TE haven't had a chance to get there or the hot WR will be dragging or hooking right where they are or more precisely where they are supposed to be. If they don't get there well we all saw what happened. Some of this is on scheme. I think he does outsmart himself and try to get too cute but like I will continue to say, lots of this is on the players too. You have to beat the guy in front of you. That's why they are paid a ton. They weren't all doubled on every play. I saw enough times of our players getting stonewalled by generic Tackles and Guards to last me a lifetime.

Can he make the adjustments? That's the question and I'm a little skeptical but I do want to see what happens when they are all in on the D.

Plus we have all seen Kyle's sweet mitts. :)


http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Cant-Miss-Play-Kyle-Williams-1st-Interception/9d0a1397-db1c-4d70-b710-afcc421a5a1c

But you can't beat the guy in front of you when you are dropping into coverage ! Those linemen are blocking other people when they don't have to block a DL who could occupy two of them !

I just don't see anyway to blame the players for not fitting is scheme as I see clearly how to blame him for not scheming to his players so we have to agree to disagree and see what happens.

I think we both agree we hope he can make adjustments and there's just no way it will be with the same players or it will failsauce again. He's going to replace people, because he does no wrong in his head.

[mightysimi]

But you can't beat the guy in front of you when you are dropping into coverage ! Those linemen are blocking other people when they don't have to block a DL who could occupy two of them !

I just don't see anyway to blame the players for not fitting is scheme as I see clearly how to blame him for not scheming to his players so we have to agree to disagree and see what happens.

I think we both agree we hope he can make adjustments and there's just no way it will be with the same players or it will failsauce again. He's going to replace people, because he does no wrong in his head.

We saw above how many snaps they dropped in coverage. It isn't a lot. In fact only 11% of all snaps did a lineman drop. Without looking it up, I'm quite confident that the players' production didn't only drop by 11%. Either way you are right that we need to hope he makes the adjustments but like I have maintained, I am skeptical.

I mean in this thread alone there are links that debunks the myth that he was lying about scheme change. I don't know if he can fix it but this is the season where it is his way. So do or die.

[toto8]

But you can't beat the guy in front of you when you are dropping into coverage ! Those linemen are blocking other people when they don't have to block a DL who could occupy two of them !

I just don't see anyway to blame the players for not fitting is scheme as I see clearly how to blame him for not scheming to his players so we have to agree to disagree and see what happens.

I think we both agree we hope he can make adjustments and there's just no way it will be with the same players or it will failsauce again. He's going to replace people, because he does no wrong in his head.

I couldn't agree more with you Mace. I hate the fact that they have to rebuild the defense because "Wrecks" wants to be exotic, also this same defense performed very well when Schwartz was the coach. I am not mad with Mario not performing this year if I was in his position I will be pissed too who the hell drops d-linemen into coverage when you know they're great or excellent at getting to the QB and/or disrupting the pocket? Hell even our LB'S played terrible this last season but with Schwartz they were OK.

Wrecks needs to figure it out with what we have and keep Mario; stop with the stupid exotic BS and let your players do the work don't put them in terrible positions. I got sick to watch reviews after games and see Kyle, Dareus or Mario standing there in the middle of the field covering ghosts instead of going after the QB.

I want to see stunts, move them around different positions from DE to DT and being creative along the line not away from it. Pettine did it.

[mightysimi]

How can you compare different seasons in Football? Usually every year about half of the teams that make the playoffs in one season don't the next. If they have the same coaches, why don't they make it every year? Is it, just maybe, the infinite number of variables that could pop up during a season? You can barely compare month to month during the season.

How did Pettine's D do this year? Just for a refresher, not good. and remember, injuries, changing scheme and below average play aren't excuses. It is all on the coach.