NFL Combine Thread

[DraftBoy]

NFL Combine starts today!

Here is a good breakdown of the schedule for workouts by position groups;
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/2/22/11079116/2016-nfl-combine-schedule-dates-times-events-arrivals

Here are the combine participants:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/participants

[Mace]

Window shopping time at last !

[DraftBoy]

Window shopping time at last !

You do you Mace.

[Mace]

Working too many hrs, way behind on reading up, anything notable happening ? All I read was that Tunsil won't run, Goff has 9 inch hands and Lynch has old injury residue.

[Mace]

You do you Mace.

Baffles me, but I do, me, yes, I me !

[Night Train]

Watching yesterdays Day 1. I thought all along this was a very good year for OL and many looked good. Lots of good OT's, which is never the norm. Good interior talent, in addition.

[Night Train]

Bad day for the QB's and WR's.

Carson Wentz looked good at QB. The rest of the top guys did nothing for me. Still like Vernon Adams of Oregon later.

WR's looked slow, per Mayock. i agree. Not a good day for any of them.

[Night Train]

Strength of this Draft is still OL and Front 7 D. Always able to find CB's, if needed.

[tampabay25690]

Strength of this Draft is still OL and Front 7 D. Always able to find CB's, if needed.

This is a big defensive draft.......

[DraftBoy]

In fairness I watched very little of the actual combine, because despite the NFLN's best effort to talk about what you can learn about how a OT shuffles his feat or how a QB drops back there isn't much to gain.

So here are some workout thoughts by position groups...

Quaterbacks:
Weigh-In
Biggest QB - Paxton Lynch - 6065, 244 lbs.
Frame Concerns - Connor Cook - 6040, 217 lbs. and Jared Goff 6040, 215 lbs.

Personally I'm looking for a QB to be above 6030 and 220+ to alleviate any concerns I have with taking hits in the NFL. Lynch won the eye test during weigh-ins.

Hand Size
Biggest Hands - Joel Stave - 10 3/4"
Concern Size - Goff - 9", Christian Hackneberg - 9"

Already another thread on this but for reference sake, you want a QB's hand size to ideally be above 9 1/2" hands. Seven of 18 QB's at the combine had Hand Sizes below 9 1/2".

40 Times
Fastest - Jeff Driskell - 4.56
Notables - Cook - 4.79, Hackenberg 4.78, Hogan 4.78, Wentz 4.77, and Lynch 4.86.

Two of the most athletic QB's in the draft (Vernon Adams and Trevone Boykin) ran 4.83 and 4.77 for a comparison to how strong those times are from the QB's I mentioned as notable.

10 Second Split
Fastest - Stave - 1.64
Most Consistent - Hogan 1.65 and 1.66

This is a potential measure of escapability and ability to get outside of the pocket under pressure. Slow footed or long striding QB's will traditionally struggle here.

Vertical Jump
Best - Lynch and Cardale Jones - 36"
Notable - Cook 33"

Just an athletic test, but none much to take away here.

Broad Jump
Best - Driskell - 10'2"
Notable - Lynch and Wentz - 9'10"

Similar to above.

Short Shuttle (or 20 Yard Shuttle)
Best - Cody Kessler - 4.00
Notable - Wentz 4.15, Adams 4.20

Change of direction can be an important measure in the NFL if you're looking for QB who can create with his feet. There wasn't any surprise to see Adams and Kessler test well, but Wentz having the 2nd best time was a very nice positive for him.

3 Cone Drill
Best - Josh Woodrum 6.74
Notable - Adams 6.82, Wentz 6.86

A test of agility, quickness, and fluidity this is a technique based test that has a lot more bearing on other positions then at QB. Wentz testing well in this again points to his overall athletic ability.

Comparing the Top Names:
The below QB's measurements are listed as follows; Height, Weight, Arms, Hands, 40 Attempt 1, 40 Attempt 2, 40 Official, 10 Split Attempt 1, 10 Split Attempt 2, Vertical Jump, Broad Jump, Short Shuttle, and 3 Cone. I'm not very good with making tables on message boards so the below was the best I could do, sorry if it looks jumbled.

Connor Cook - Michigan State - 6040, 217 lbs, 33 Arms, 9 3/4 Hands, 4.82 (1), 4.80 (2), 4.79 (O), 1.68 (1), 1.70 (2), 33 VJ, 9'5 BJ, 4.28 SS, 7.21 3 Cone
Jared Goff - California - 6040, 215 lbs, 32 3/4 Arms, 9 Hands, 4.84 (1), 4.83 (2), 4.82 (O), 1.66 (1), 1.67 (2), 27 VJ, 9'2 BJ, 4.47 SS, 7.17 3 Cone
Christian Hackenberg - 6043, 223 lbs, 32 Arms, 9 Hands, 4.89 (1), 4.79 (2), 4.78 (O), 1.70 (1), 1.65 (2), 31 VJ, 9'6 BJ, 4.33 SS, 7.04 3 Cone
Cardale Jones - Ohio State - 6050, 253 lbs, 33 3/4 Arms, 9 3/4 Hands, 4.83 (1), 4.85 (2), 4.81 (O), 1.68 (1), 1.68 (2), 36 VJ, DNP BJ, DNP SS, DNP 3 Cone
Paxton Lynch - Memphis - 6065, 244 lbs, 34 1/4 Arms, 10 1/4 Hands, 4.88 (1), 4.87 (2), 4.86 (O), 1.71 (1), 1.70 (2), 36 VJ, 9'10 BJ, 4.26 SS, 7.14 3 Cone
Cameron Wentz - North Dakota St - 6052, 236 lbs, 32 3/8 Arms, 10 Hands, 4.78 (1), 4.79 (2), 4.77 (O), 1.67 (1), 1.66 (2), 30.5 VJ, 9'10 BJ. 4.15 SS, 6.86 3 Cone

Height - Lynch - 6065
Weight - Jones - 253 lbs
Arms - Lynch - 34 1/4"
Hands - Lynch - 10 1/4"
40 - Wentz - 4.77
10 - Hackenberg 1.65
VJ - Jones and Lynch - 36"
BJ - Lynch and Wentz - 9'10"
SS - Wentz - 4.15
3 Cone - Wentz - 6.86

Overall:
I though Wentz won the combine for the QB class, he measured well, and was the best of the top tier in 4 of the 6 athletic testing categories. That says a lot about his athleticism. I think Goff will have the be the most disappointed, not only did he come in a little slight of frame and his hand size become a concern he didn't test very well either.

Of the tier 2 guys Kevin Hogan definitely emerged with some impressive athletic testing numbers, while Vernon Adams and Trevone Boykin both disappointed. I was hoping for Jacoby Brissett or Nate Sudfeld to have big weekends, but neither seemed to materialize.

[Night Train]

The combine carries some weight but game film is still king. Adams is small but hard to ignore his big arm with touch and his ability to keep plays alive, converting big gains.

Driskell is the only other QB I like in the later rounds. The rest were very uninspiring on film and don't look like they can make the leap to potential starter, let alone a good backup.

[DraftBoy]

The combine carries some weight but game film is still king. Adams is small but hard to ignore his big arm with touch and his ability to keep plays alive, converting big gains.

Driskell is the only other QB I like in the later rounds. The rest were very uninspiring on film and don't look like they can make the leap to potential starter, let alone a good backup.

Adams jump from FCS to FBS scares me because he took a pounding and got dinged up a lot. That's not a good sign imo.

[DraftBoy]

Running Backs
Weigh-In
Biggest (Height, Weight, and Arms) - Derrick Henry 6025, 247 lbs, 33" Arms

Just DAMN. I mean this guy is more god like then he is RB like.

Frame Concerns - Marshaun Coprich – 5080, 207 lbs, Tyler Ervin – 5097, 192 lbs, Josh Ferguson – 5094, 198 lbs, DeAndre Washington – 5082, 204 lbs

Most concern would be with Ervin and Ferguson who are only 5’9 and sub 200 pounds. Coprich had a lot of carries (927 for career) at Illinois State but it was lower level football so can he take a NFL style pounding?

Hand Size
Biggest Hands – Ezekial Elliott & Brandon Wilds – 10 ¼”
Concerning Size – Devontae Booker – 8 5/8”, Henry – 8 ¾”, C.J. Prosise 8 ½”

Not as big of a deal as with QB’s, but bigger hands usually means better pass catchers. Prosise was pretty good at ND out of the backfield, but it’s a question mark with Henry and Booker for sure.

40 Times
Fastest – Keith Marshall – 4.31
Good Notables – Kenyan Drake – 4.45, Elliott – 4.47, Ervin – 4.41, Prosise – 4.48, Wendell Smallwood – 4.47, Dan Vitale – 4.60 (FB).
Concerning Notables – Peyton Barber – 4.64, Alex Collins – 4.59, Shad Thornton – 4.75

Keith Marshall was actually a higher ranked and thought of RB prospect heading into UGA than Todd Gurley. However, injuries derailed his career and now he’s a Day 2 or 3 pick with speed to burn. He looks healthy and can absolutely fly in the open field.

I was glad to see both Drake and Elliott throw down good 40 times. They looked quick in games and Drake is overlooked because of Henry. However, nobody had as good a 40 time as CJ Prosise. He was the only 6’0+, 220+ RB to go below 4.5 and that is huge for his stock. He exploded at ND this year and could be a fast riser on some boards. Also gotta give a little love to a FB who runs a 4.6 flat, could find a spot as blocking FB/short yardage guy.

I thought Collins and Barber would both be sub 4.5 to 4.55 guys, but both failed to come close to that measure. However, the biggest shock was Shad Thornton running the slowest time of any RB (including FB’s). He’s always been a plugger at NC State, but this time really hurts him.

10 Second Split
Fastest – Marshall & Daniel Lasco – 1.53
Good Notables – Coprich – 1.54, Kenneth Dixon – 1.56, Ervin – 1.56, Ferguson – 1.56, Smallwood – 1.56
Concerning Notables – Drake – 1.64, Henry – 1.61, Paul Perkins – 1.62 Thornton – 1.66, Wilds - 1.61

Good short yardage burst from Lasco and Dixon will help them, both are in that 5’11 – 6’0 210-215 lbs club. Despite have good long distance speed both Drake and Henry struggled to start, those first ten yards can make all the difference in the NFL. No doubt, that some teams took notice of this. Perkins only ran one 40 before injuring himself, which may explain his slower time.

Bench Press
Most Reps – Marshall – 25 Reps
Least Reps – Thornton – 12 Reps
Good Notables – Devontae Booker – 22 Reps, Henry - 22 Reps, Lasco – 23 Reps, Tre Madden – 24 Reps, DeAndre Washington – 24 Reps
Concerning Notables – Jordan Howard – 16 Reps, Smallwood 14 Reps, Taylor 15 Reps, Jonathan Williams – 16 Reps

Not all that usual to see the fastest guy also do the most bench reps, but it happened at this combine. Marshall was quite possibly the biggest winner of all at the combine, while Thornton may have been the biggest loser. You don’t want to be both the slowest guy and put up the least weight. He needs a big Pro Day.

Vertical Jump
Best – Lasco – 41.5”
Notable – Dixon – 37.5”, Ervin – 39”, Henry 37”, Vitale – 38.5”

Just an athletic test, not much take away. Another shout out to the FB!

Broad Jump
Best – Lasco 11’3”
Notable – Ervin & Henry – 10’10”

Similar to above.

Short Shuttle (or 20 Yard Shuttle)
Best – Vitale – 4.12
Good Notables – Barber – 4.21, Drake – 4.21, Thornton – 4.21, Washington – 4.20
Concerning Notable – Coprich – 4.58

One of the most scrutinized parts of a RB’s game is his ability to change direction. It was shocking that a FB had the best time by far, but it was a good rebound test for Barber, Drake, and Thornton.

60 Yard Shuttle
Best – Smallwood – 11.14
Good Notables – Lasco – 11.31, Vitale – 11.36
Concerning Notables – Coprich - 12.09, Wilds – 11.75

This is more of an endurance based change of direction test. Looking to see who can hit it hard for 20 yards and change direction three times. Looking at ability to break big runs and make that last cut on the deep safety who has an angle.

3 Cone Drill
Best – Smallwood – 6.83
Good Notables – Dixon – 6.97, Thornton – 6.85
Concerning Notables – Coprich – 7.26, Henry - 7.20, Lasco – 7.22

A test of agility, quickness, and fluidity this is a technique based test that is also highly scrutinized for RB’s. Smallwood put up pretty solid athletic numbers across all of the speed, COD, and agility drills which is good for him. I think some will read too much into Derrick Henry’s poorer agility numbers and ignore his tape. This kid can play football.

Overall:
I thought Marshall won the combine for the RB class, he measured well, showed blazing speed that some worried he had lost due to his injuries. Derrick Henry remains a beast despite what the numbers show along with Ezekial Elliott.
I think guys like Lasco, Smallwood, Prosise, and Drake did plenty to help their stock in this combine while guys like Thornton, Coprich, Taylor, and Perkins may have hurt themselves. Pro Days become huge for those guys now.

Lastly, I’ve done some speed scores for each RB. For those that aren’t familiar a speed score is an analytic measurement with a formula of =(Weight x 200) / (40 Time ^4). Here are the results for all RB’s who ran the 40:
Marshall, Keith - 126.93
Henry, Derrick - 116.28
Elliott, Ezekial - 112.72
Prosise, CJ - 109.23
Drake, Kenyan - 107.10
Vitale, Dan (FB) - 106.76
Lasco, Daniel - 105.64
Smallwood, Wendell - 104.20
Coprich, Marshaun - 103.70
Wilds, Brandon - 103.57
Vainukum, Soma (FB) - 102.56
Erivn, Tyler - 101.53
Washington, DeAndre - 100.39
Barber, Peyton - 98.38
Ferguson, Josh - 98.31
Perkins, Paul - 97.92
Collins, Alex - 97.78
Dixon, Kenneth - 97.73
Gronkowski, Glenn (FB) - 97.13
Taylor, Kelvin - 92.46
Janovich, Andy (FB) - 88.93
Thornton, Shad - 85.25

[ParanoidAndroid]

and Marshall could be a UFA?

[YardRat]

Not player related, but...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/04/falcons-have-a-problem-and-the-head-coach-needs-to-solve-it/

Falcons have a problem, and the head coach needs to solve itThe question becomes whether and to what extent the Falcons will take action to get the coaching staff under control. Head coach Dan Quinn seems like an earnest, genuine, and well-meaning person. But he has on his payroll a couple of old-school knuckleheads who perpetuate the notion that the pro football industry lags behind the rest of modern American workplaces by 40 or 50 years. And it’s ultimately a reflection on Quinn, especially if he’s going to not name publicly the coach who asked Eli Apple if he likes men (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/04/falcons-apologize-for-inappropriate-combine-interview-question/).

[Mace]

Not player related, but...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/04/falcons-have-a-problem-and-the-head-coach-needs-to-solve-it/

Falcons have a problem, and the head coach needs to solve it

The question becomes whether and to what extent the Falcons will take action to get the coaching staff under control. Head coach Dan Quinn seems like an earnest, genuine, and well-meaning person. But he has on his payroll a couple of old-school knuckleheads who perpetuate the notion that the pro football industry lags behind the rest of modern American workplaces by 40 or 50 years. And it’s ultimately a reflection on Quinn, especially if he’s going to not name publicly the coach who asked Eli Apple if he likes men (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/04/falcons-apologize-for-inappropriate-combine-interview-question/).

Yeesh.

Best reply :"I'm flattered you're interested, but no thank you."