Lawson called defensive signals by the end of the year, not Preston Brown.

[Mace]

Brown has a good shot at returning as a starter for the Bills next season, considering that Lawson is miscast as an inside linebacker, and that Brown's fellow Week 1 starter inside, Nigel Bradham (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/155016/nigel-bradham), is about to become an unrestricted free agent. Considering those two things, plus the team's apparent lack of confidence in Brown, and it's fair to wonder if a position that we all considered a need already might be a more urgent perceived need within the walls of One Bills Drive.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2016/3/6/11168684/manny-lawson-preston-brown-buffalo-bills-defense-qb-rex-ryan

Sure, why not. Just dandy.

[Night Train]

Brown and Bradham missed an incredible amount of tackles last season. I'm hoping they upgrade at ILB. Lawson and Hughes are outside.

I'll let the off-season play out.

[coastal]

All the right people in all the wrong systems... the curse of OBD

[Victor7]

I can't recall a LB unit as bad as ours in the last 20 years. And I'm not talking just Bills. I'm talking the entire NFL.

[mightysimi]

I can't recall a LB unit as bad as ours in the last 20 years. And I'm not talking just Bills. I'm talking the entire NFL.

a little dramatic this morning? You can't seriously think this right? Forget about the last 20 years how about the Saints of this year?

[cookie G]

Late last season, Brown was the one complaining that calls and substitutions weren't coming in soon enough from the sideline and/or booth...

It doesn't shock me that Rex took the radio away from him and then let it slip out now.

Blaming other is his MO. Its all he's been doing since the season ended.

- - - Updated - - -


I can't recall a LB unit as bad as ours in the last 20 years. And I'm not talking just Bills. I'm talking the entire NFL.

Oh please

[Victor7]

a little dramatic this morning? You can't seriously think this right? Forget about the last 20 years how about the Saints of this year?

Ok, one of the worst of the last 20 years ?? ... or is that also wrong ?? Are you a fan of our situation?

In any case the Saints had Danell Ellerbe, James Anderson (10 year vet) and 2 rookies. Not sure that qualifies as bad, inexperienced over the 2 noobs maybe. But that's about it.

[mightysimi]

Ok, one of the worst of the last 20 years ?? ... or is that also wrong ?? Are you a fan of our situation?

In any case the Saints had Danell Ellerbe, James Anderson (10 year vet) and 2 rookies. Not sure that qualifies as bad, inexperienced over the 2 noobs maybe. But that's about it.

Of course I'm not a fan of losing. I just don't think the sky is falling. I think with some adjustments and the starters playing, the D can be very productive.

[Victor7]

Of course I'm not a fan of losing. I just don't think the sky is falling. I think with some adjustments and the starters playing, the D can be very productive.

Oh I think so too. I'm just saying that 2015's LB core was historically bad. The only guy worth a **** is Brown and he's not that awesome either. The rest of the guys are very uneventful to say the least.

[mightysimi]

Oh I think so too. I'm just saying that 2015's LB core was historically bad. The only guy worth a **** is Brown and he's not that awesome either. The rest of the guys are very uneventful to say the least.


And that is where you lose me. Historically bad to me would indicate to me that we were run all over and gouged for yards but, being not last in any defensive category that I can find, makes it hard for me to go with.

[cookie G]

Oh I think so too. I'm just saying that 2015's LB core was historically bad. The only guy worth a **** is Brown and he's not that awesome either. The rest of the guys are very uneventful to say the least.

The Bills were 11th against the rush in 2014 with Brown and Bradham as their LBs and 14th in YPC. In pass coverage...well...they were 3rd in the league in 2014.

This dropped brutally this year, in all categories (including droping to 24th in the league in YPC.

Do you think this might have something to do with it?

"I don't know who that guy is [in the coaches' box], but we talk about it in the meetings," Brown said. "It's been an issue with the personnel coming in and out. I mean, you can see it on games: People are running in and out; we're changing plays here and there. So it's definitely been an issue."

...

"It's something that shouldn't happen," Brown said. "[Opposing offenses] run people in and off because they know we're having issues with that upstairs in the box. So people are going to keep doing it, running in and off. I mean, teams that usually are the slowest teams on the ball, they're hurrying up on us and trying to get plays because they know it's something that we've had issues with."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14421693/buffalo-bills-lb-preston-brown-says-play-calls-coming-late-coaches-booth


When you're lining up 9 or 10 against 11, or people are constantly out of place...someone's going to look bad.

I'd like to think it would get better...but...with the new guy Rex brought in...um...

It wasn't a secret. As Ryan's defense declined the past season and a half, TV cameras often caught Payton and Ryan visibly upset and snapping at each other on the sideline during games.

A source within the Saints organization said most of the sideline issues revolved around Ryan's calls coming in late or the wrong defense being called. The source, who was granted anonymity to speak freely of the situation, said that happened "at least 40 or 50 times this year."

"It was awful," the source added.


http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/11/new_orleans_saints_rob_ryan_2.html


These late substitution chess matches worked alot better when teams huddled for longer periods. But when teams are huddling for less than 10 seconds and the QB is at the line scanning a defense for most of the play clock..not so much.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

The Bills were 11th against the rush in 2014 with Brown and Bradham as their LBs and 14th in YPC. In pass coverage...well...they were 3rd in the league in 2014.

This dropped brutally this year, in all categories (including droping to 24th in the league in YPC.

Do you think this might have something to do with it?

"I don't know who that guy is [in the coaches' box], but we talk about it in the meetings," Brown said. "It's been an issue with the personnel coming in and out. I mean, you can see it on games: People are running in and out; we're changing plays here and there. So it's definitely been an issue."

...

"It's something that shouldn't happen," Brown said. "[Opposing offenses] run people in and off because they know we're having issues with that upstairs in the box. So people are going to keep doing it, running in and off. I mean, teams that usually are the slowest teams on the ball, they're hurrying up on us and trying to get plays because they know it's something that we've had issues with."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14421693/buffalo-bills-lb-preston-brown-says-play-calls-coming-late-coaches-booth


When you're lining up 9 or 10 against 11, or people are constantly out of place...someone's going to look bad.

I'd like to think it would get better...but...with the new guy Rex brought in...um...

It wasn't a secret. As Ryan's defense declined the past season and a half, TV cameras often caught Payton and Ryan visibly upset and snapping at each other on the sideline during games.

A source within the Saints organization said most of the sideline issues revolved around Ryan's calls coming in late or the wrong defense being called. The source, who was granted anonymity to speak freely of the situation, said that happened "at least 40 or 50 times this year."

"It was awful," the source added.


http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/11/new_orleans_saints_rob_ryan_2.html


These late substitution chess matches worked alot better when teams huddled for longer periods. But when teams are huddling for less than 10 seconds and the QB is at the line scanning a defense for most of the play clock..not so much.

This is why I'm so excited that we are literally doubling down on stupid with our defense this upcoming year.

being sarcastic of course

[Victor7]

And that is where you lose me. Historically bad to me would indicate to me that we were run all over and gouged for yards but, being not last in any defensive category that I can find, makes it hard for me to go with.

Well we also have a stellar DLine so that helps the stats but I see your point.

[cookie G]

This is why I'm so excited that we are literally doubling down on stupid with our defense this upcoming year.

being sarcastic of course

Don't tell me about the pregnancy test, show me the baby.

I miss Marv, if for nothing else, he used WWII analogies instead of pregnancy.

[Victor7]

The Bills were 11th against the rush in 2014 with Brown and Bradham as their LBs and 14th in YPC. In pass coverage...well...they were 3rd in the league in 2014.

This dropped brutally this year, in all categories (including droping to 24th in the league in YPC.

Do you think this might have something to do with it?

"I don't know who that guy is [in the coaches' box], but we talk about it in the meetings," Brown said. "It's been an issue with the personnel coming in and out. I mean, you can see it on games: People are running in and out; we're changing plays here and there. So it's definitely been an issue."

...

"It's something that shouldn't happen," Brown said. "[Opposing offenses] run people in and off because they know we're having issues with that upstairs in the box. So people are going to keep doing it, running in and off. I mean, teams that usually are the slowest teams on the ball, they're hurrying up on us and trying to get plays because they know it's something that we've had issues with."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14421693/buffalo-bills-lb-preston-brown-says-play-calls-coming-late-coaches-booth


When you're lining up 9 or 10 against 11, or people are constantly out of place...someone's going to look bad.

I'd like to think it would get better...but...with the new guy Rex brought in...um...

It wasn't a secret. As Ryan's defense declined the past season and a half, TV cameras often caught Payton and Ryan visibly upset and snapping at each other on the sideline during games.

A source within the Saints organization said most of the sideline issues revolved around Ryan's calls coming in late or the wrong defense being called. The source, who was granted anonymity to speak freely of the situation, said that happened "at least 40 or 50 times this year."

"It was awful," the source added.


http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2015/11/new_orleans_saints_rob_ryan_2.html


These late substitution chess matches worked alot better when teams huddled for longer periods. But when teams are huddling for less than 10 seconds and the QB is at the line scanning a defense for most of the play clock..not so much.

Dude look up my posts on Rex and his staff. You won't find a bigger detractor. I hate what they did to our D. But that doesn't take from the very below average performers we send out there. Like I said, aside from Brown the rest are very unworthy.

[YardRat]

Best defensive line in football in 2014 with Mario, Dareus, KW and Hughes.
A more-than-very solid, and promising, LBer corps of Brown (rookie), Spikes and Bradham.
Both units were **** in 2015.

The players stayed the same, the coaching staff and scheme didn't. This isn't really rocket surgery.

[mightysimi]

http://www.espnrochester.com/How-often-does-Jim-Schwartz-call-a-Bills-blitz-/13171283?pid=428351&do=1

This shows that schwartz blitzed the 3rd fewest in the league. Does that mean he is a genius at 4 man rushes and that's why we got a ton of sacks? Or were the defenders beating the guy opposite them? I will give you more stunts with schwartz but to say all scheme isn't true. If he was blitzing a ton and we got home a ton, I would agree. Is the only thing that makes mario effective being a yard outside the tackle? How about every other year he wasn't in a wide 9? Maybe Kyle Williams is a good player and was missed.

Maybe it is all Rex's fault but I just can't get there without at least half if not more being on the players. But Rex is loud and the media sets him up for questions they know he is going to come up with something quoteable so it must be all his fault. Maybe Whaley too. I blame him personally for having the most talented roster in 10 years. I guess this is what happens in Buffalo when there isn't a backup QB worth talking about starting.

Edit: posted link is for only early in the season but assumed the established pattern continued.

[justasportsfan]

http://www.espnrochester.com/How-often-does-Jim-Schwartz-call-a-Bills-blitz-/13171283?pid=428351&do=1

This shows that schwartz blitzed the 3rd fewest in the league. Does that mean he is a genius at 4 man rushes and that's why we got a ton of sacks? Or were the defenders beating the guy opposite them? I will give you more stunts with schwartz but to say all scheme isn't true. If he was blitzing a ton and we got home a ton, I would agree. Is the only thing that makes mario effective being a yard outside the tackle? How about every other year he wasn't in a wide 9? Maybe Kyle Williams is a good player and was missed. .NO! t was the scheme and it was the coaches. You can't tell me Kyle was missed because everyone else's number dropped.


Maybe it is all Rex's fault but I just can't get there without at least half if not more being on the players. But Rex is loud and the media sets him up for questions they know he is going to come up with something quoteable so it must be all his fault. Maybe Whaley too. I blame him personally for having the most talented roster in 10 years. I guess this is what happens in Buffalo when there isn't a backup QB worth talking about starting.

Edit: posted link is for only early in the season but assumed the established pattern continued.
It's not a maybe. It's a definitely Rex's fault. Anyone can see that but you.

Even Pettines defense was better than the garbage Rex's put up last year with the best DL.

[mightysimi]

NO! t was the scheme and it was the coaches. You can't tell me Kyle was missed because everyone else's number dropped.

It's not a maybe. It's a definitely Rex's fault. Anyone can see that but you.

Even Pettines defense was better than the garbage Rex's put up last year with the best DL.

Why even have a draft if any player can play well in a good scheme? We should be able to grab anyone right? That's what I am saying that is it possible that everyone's numbers dropped because of a 3-4 time pro bowler not there? Of course not. Charles and Bryant are super good.

What was our record when Pettine was D coord? 6-10? My personal favorite, I know sacks and picks are sexy, is getting run all over to the term of 130 yards per game and 28th in rush D. That doesn't matter though....sacks and picks!!!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/opp.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/opp.htm

I don't know their metrics but using the same website would have the same standard. 2013 we were 20th and 2015 we were 15th. So how about we dispell the rumor that Pettine was some genius and Rex only needed to do what he did.

[cookie G]

Dude look up my posts on Rex and his staff. You won't find a bigger detractor. I hate what they did to our D. But that doesn't take from the very below average performers we send out there. Like I said, aside from Brown the rest are very unworthy.

If they didn't play well in '14, I might agree.


But this is like when an ex player tried to evaluate the Redskins offense on one of RGIII's worst days. He basically gave everyone a pass and said its impossible to evaluate the offense in the way he was playing.

Its impossible to evaluate people when they are playing out of position, or the D is out of sorts.

I know what they are capable of doing and its a lot better than what they were given last year. They were put in a position to fail.

[justasportsfan]

Why even have a draft if any player can play well in a good scheme? We should be able to grab anyone right? That's what I am saying that is it possible that everyone's numbers dropped because of a 3-4 time pro bowler not there? Of course not. Charles and Bryant are super good.

What was our record when Pettine was D coord? 6-10? My personal favorite, I know sacks and picks are sexy, is getting run all over to the term of 130 yards per game and 28th in rush D. That doesn't matter though....sacks and picks!!!

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2013/opp.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/opp.htm

I don't know their metrics but using the same website would have the same standard. 2013 we were 20th and 2015 we were 15th. So how about we dispell the rumor that Pettine was some genius and Rex only needed to do what he did.
the 6-10 record was due to Marrone and EJ .

If it wasn't for Roman and his O , we might not have even won 5 games with what Rex put out there on D.

NO Pettine was no Genius, his D was horrible against the run but it still wasn't as bad a Rex and Rex had a better line-up.

Out of Pettine/Scwhartz/Rex. Rex was the worst yet one can argue he had the best line-up.

[mightysimi]

I guess I still hold wins and losses above other stats.

His D was still ranked lower. Which playmaker have we added since 13 on D that makes Rex's D so much more flush with talent? Darby? Graham? Seriously.

Which 3-4 games did we win in spite of the D?

everyone can see it but me hey? Well this is what I see. Everyone has a hate on for Rex. Lots of this in my opinion is left over from his time with the Jets and disappointment from this season. He admitted to trying to change his D and then switching back. There was video evidence posted in another thread but that doesn't matter. Teams switch things up all the time in mid season. Our awesome D line played 5 games together but that doesn't matter. Only in Buffalo is the back up always just as productive as the starter. First year in a new system but that doesn't matter. But, but that one team that one time did well. Guys not going where they are supposed to backed up by post game comments to the media by players but that doesn't matter.

I"m not saying(nor have I ever said) that Rex is blameless but to put it solely at his feet is crazy. It is completly disregarding many things that by themselves could derail a team. His subs are slow and the d getting in is slow. That is on him and hopefully can be rectified this season or at least improved. Players all of a sudden getting stonewalled by a no name tackle or guard? That is not. I just can't understand how every other year, every second guy we have sucks but this past year they are great and it is Rex's fault. I just don't understand why the players all get a pass.

[Mace]

I"m not saying(nor have I ever said) that Rex is blameless but to put it solely at his feet is crazy. It is completly disregarding many things that by themselves could derail a team. His subs are slow and the d getting in is slow. That is on him and hopefully can be rectified this season or at least improved. Players all of a sudden getting stonewalled by a no name tackle or guard? That is not. I just can't understand how every other year, every second guy we have sucks but this past year they are great and it is Rex's fault. I just don't understand why the players all get a pass.

Because he stuffed square pegs into round holes. Makes perfect sense to lay blame entirely at Rex's feet because he's the only thing that changed and it's obvious. They added Darby. That's a plus. Besides that the "only" diff is Ryan in the decline from a top 5 defense, it's obvious whether or not you want to admit it.

Dropping Dareus and Kyle into coverage, so what man are they supposed to beat ? Not rushing Mario, same question ? Long stupid play calls are huge when you can't get them in, maniac subbing is huge, lack of consistency is huge (how could they beat up Brady like that in Pats game 2 and mostly leave everyone else alone ?).

It's mostly certainly Ryan's fault, he's a defensive genius remember, he told you so and you still desperately want to believe his smoke and mirrors. Why didn't they change anything, oh he says they did, he lied, he didn't, you saw it with your own eyes.

Blaming the players who were perfectly competent just a year before, for Ryan's weird inflexibility in making them do things they aren't good at, is ridiculous.

[justasportsfan]

I guess I still hold wins and losses above other stats.

His D was still ranked lower. Which playmaker have we added since 13 on D that makes Rex's D so much more flush with talent? Darby? Graham? Seriously.

Which 3-4 games did we win in spite of the D?

everyone can see it but me hey? Well this is what I see. Everyone has a hate on for Rex. Lots of this in my opinion is left over from his time with the Jets and disappointment from this season. He admitted to trying to change his D and then switching back. There was video evidence posted in another thread but that doesn't matter. Teams switch things up all the time in mid season. Our awesome D line played 5 games together but that doesn't matter. Only in Buffalo is the back up always just as productive as the starter. First year in a new system but that doesn't matter. But, but that one team that one time did well. Guys not going where they are supposed to backed up by post game comments to the media by players but that doesn't matter.

I"m not saying(nor have I ever said) that Rex is blameless but to put it solely at his feet is crazy. It is completly disregarding many things that by themselves could derail a team. His subs are slow and the d getting in is slow. That is on him and hopefully can be rectified this season or at least improved. Players all of a sudden getting stonewalled by a no name tackle or guard? That is not. I just can't understand how every other year, every second guy we have sucks but this past year they are great and it is Rex's fault. I just don't understand why the players all get a pass.

I too value wins and losses but you're giving credit to the wrong person. The offense was better than the D. Last year's D plus this years O ,we make playoffs. Last year's O plus this year's D we don't win 5 games.

Who else are you going to blame? Danny Crossman? Listen to the players themselves. None of the players moaned and whined about the scheme ,coaching ,lack of communication, etc.under Pettine and Schwartz.

Rex himself had to bring in his own brother to try and fix this wreck.

Like I said before, we may make playoffs with Rex but I doubt we'll ever make SB with him . I hope I'm wrong but he's the same loudmouth coach who can'take back up his mouth.


I don't hate the guy, I just want him to win more than his mouth can put out.

[mightysimi]

Come on man, you know they didn't drop a lot.

So they were supposed to beat the guy in front of them on many plays. Virtually all of them. The players are not blameless.

How about this question, if the two offences are the same and one d is the 2's coached by schwartz and the other the 1's coached by Ryan. Does the Schwartz team win? If players don't matter and it is all coaching and scheme, Schwartzy would win right?

I don't desperately want to believe Ryan, I barely listen to what he says but I do know you can't build anything in one off-season and there is a history of success there on both sides, the players and the coach.

However as we will not agree, in the interest of mutual sanity, if Rex gets fired because he ruined the d 2 years in a row and we get a new coach who instantly in year one gets us to the playoffs, I will admit I was wrong about everything. Until then, I believe my points have merit and you don't think you can discount any factors that have traditionally had an impact on unit performances.

[mightysimi]

I too value wins and losses but you're giving credit to the wrong person. The offense was better than the D. Last year's D plus this years O ,we make playoffs. Last year's O plus this year's D we don't win 5 games.

Who else are you going to blame? Danny Crossman? Listen to the players themselves. None of the players moaned and whined about the scheme ,coaching ,lack of communication, etc.under Pettine and Schwartz.

Rex himself had to bring in his own brother to try and fix this wreck.

Like I said before, we may make playoffs with Rex but I doubt we'll ever make SB with him . I hope I'm wrong but he's the same loudmouth coach who can'take back up his mouth.


I don't hate the guy, I just want him to win more than his mouth can put out.

That is just it, I am not giving credit to Ryan. Not once have I said he is blameless. I just think it takes longer than 1 season to build something and I think the players should shoulder some of the blame. I choose to see contributing factors to poor performance as opposed to sticking my head in the sand and swinging at the low hanging fruit.

[YardRat]

That is just it, I am not giving credit to Ryan. Not once have I said he is blameless. I just think it takes longer than 1 season to build something and I think the players should shoulder some of the blame. I choose to see contributing factors to poor performance as opposed to sticking my head in the sand and swinging at the low hanging fruit.

The defense was already built, and handed to Wrecks on a silver platter.

[justasportsfan]

That is just it, I am not giving credit to Ryan. Not once have I said he is blameless. I just think it takes longer than 1 season to build something and I think the players should shoulder some of the blame. I choose to see contributing factors to poor performance as opposed to sticking my head in the sand and swinging at the low hanging fruit.

I don't blame the players at all, they all played fine under Schwartz and Pettine. LIke Yardie said, the D was already built. He took it apart in one season. Pettine and Schwartz didn't need more than 1 season to bulld a D better than Rex created/destroyed last year