Cardale and Whaley, sittin' in a tree...?

[stuckincincy]

Heh... :kid:

Bills are enamored with the boom-or-bust potential of Cardale Jones
April 8, 2016 3:45 pm ET Jason La Canfora, CBS Sports NFL Insider

"The Buffalo Bills, under general manager Doug Whaley, really can't help themselves. The allure of a boom-or-bust proposition is often too great for them to ignore, and the shiny thing in the corner, catching their eye these days, is a quarterback. Specifically, Ohio State project Cardale Jones.

Yes, even with the residue of the failed experiment to grossly over-draft EJ Manuel still lingering, and with them not too far removed mortgaging a draft to move up a few spots to take Sammie Watkins in a receiver-rich draft, and about a year removed from trading for Shady McCoy -- adding millions to what was already a hefty contract -- it seems unlikely the Bills will go quietly this April.

For as much double-talk as you hear coming from that building about current starter Tyrod Taylor, the reality is, as reported back at the combine, that he was never on their list as part of this year's spending splurge and they want to continue to rent him. They are plenty content to have him come to camp for peanuts, still unsure if he is the guy given his slight frame, the kind of abuse he takes playing the position so athletically. He flashed well and had a winning record for a suspect team a year ago, but they have their reservations."...

The rest of the article:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25547259/bills-enamored-with-boom-or-bust-cardale-jones-eagles-blowing-smoke

[Scumbag College]

I'm ok with Cardale in the third. I'm even more ok with Cardale in the fourth.

[Mace]

I'm ok with Cardale in the third. I'm even more ok with Cardale in the fourth.

That's sort of where you draft a maybe who will spend a year on the pines in a deep draft instead of reaching for one early like we've done inadequately before, instead of shooting wildly for Gabberts, Lockers, Manziels, Manuels, Weedens, Tannehills, Ponders and Tebows.

[stuckincincy]

I'm ok with Cardale in the third. I'm even more ok with Cardale in the fourth.

4th sounds right. Tell that to Douggie. :jig:

[X-Era]

Not a fan of Jones at all. I hope this is a smokescreen.

[Scumbag College]

That's sort of where you draft a maybe who will spend a year on the pines in a deep draft instead of reaching for one early like we've done inadequately before, instead of shooting wildly for Gabberts, Lockers, Manziels, Manuels, Weedens, Tannehills, Ponders and Tebows.

Yes all of those QBs that you mentioned were not worthy of a first round pick, but in a QB hungry league with only a few true stars teams are going to do some reaching.

[swiper]

This player is terrible.

[X-Era]

Really don't want Crapdale Jones

[gonzo1105]

You know who Cardale Jones reminds me of..........EJ Manuel

[Scumbag College]

I like Cardale, but rather have the Bills take Dak Prescott if he's there in the third or fourth. Reminds me of a faster David Garrard coming out of college.

[Ed]

I think Cardale Jones is going to be a Bill and my guess is they'll use the last pick of the 4th round to grab him. Jones needs time to develop as a passer, but I think Roman would love to develop a package of plays for him in short yardage situations. Kind of like they did with EJ, but better. Jones would be a pretty dynamic short yardage guy and it could help keep Tyrod healthier.

[YardRat]

I don't think Jones will last until the end of the fourth.

[Night Train]

As someone who watches every Buckeye game, he has a cannon arm and is a rare talent, yet he is as raw as a QB can be. Is built like a DE, throws a great bomb and can get out of tackles to keep plays alive.

He needs a reading defense 101 class in the worst way and would need at least a year of hard coaching to catch up.

Bills have looked hard at several QB's so right now, he's just one of the ones. Others are much further ahead of him right now but his upside may be far superior. Yet, it's still a big if with lots of work to do...

[Mace]

A worthwhile read just for what I think was a pretty good summary of Jones after the paragraph below.


While many will point to Cardale Jones being benched as a reason against drafting him, the context is important. Ohio State runs an option offense that J.T. Barrett has the ideal skill set for. Cardale, while possessing good speed and mobility simply isn’t the athlete that Barrett is and the offense calls for.

http://buildingtheherd.com/commentary/cardale-jones-best-fit-bills/

[DraftBoy]

To me the article above is a smoke screen, but not in the way you think. If the Bills are enamored with Cradale Jones, which makes a lot of sense, then we have a nearly perfect situation for him. He can come in with no pressure to be a starter and learn from Tyrod Taylor. He's also a fit for the current offensive scheme which limits the decision making responsibility for the QB and wants somebody who can make big plays with his arm and legs.

I don't the Bills taking Jones is an indication of their wavering on Taylor as the future, I think its the Bills actually doing what a good team is supposed to do and making smart decision about high upside prospects. Jones may have the most pure potential of any QB in the draft, but he needs lots of time to be coached up, learn, and become a little more mature.

If you're telling me we're taking Jones in Round 1 or 2, I'm against it, but in Round 3 or 4, I think it's a solid to wise investment.

[k-oneputt]

I'd rather have Hackenberg.

[Mr. Pink]

How is it any kind of smoke screen? I didn't know GMs smokescreened midround projected players 3 weeks before the draft.

Cardale Jones is a less polished version of Akili Smith coming out of college or if you wanna have some higher aspirations for him as an NFL QB, Daunte Culpepper. Except the problem is it's gonna take more years than any NFL team ever invests in a player anymore to get him to whatever his ceiling potential is.

[stuckincincy]

As someone who watches every Buckeye game, he has a cannon arm and is a rare talent, yet he is as raw as a QB can be. Is built like a DE, throws a great bomb and can get out of tackles to keep plays alive.

He needs a reading defense 101 class in the worst way and would need at least a year of hard coaching to catch up.

Bills have looked hard at several QB's so right now, he's just one of the ones. Others are much further ahead of him right now but his upside may be far superior. Yet, it's still a big if with lots of work to do...

I agree. Game after game, OSU HC Meyer gave him starts, game after game he got yanked for Barrett.

He's worth a dice roll in the 4th or lower, I suppose, but to me he's this years' edition of another former OSU QB - Terelle Prtor.

[DraftBoy]

How is it any kind of smoke screen? I didn't know GMs smokescreened midround projected players 3 weeks before the draft.

Cardale Jones is a less polished version of Akili Smith coming out of college or if you wanna have some higher aspirations for him as an NFL QB, Daunte Culpepper. Except the problem is it's gonna take more years than any NFL team ever invests in a player anymore to get him to whatever his ceiling potential is.

I don't that's a completely fair assessment. You're talking about a QB who had a grand total of 423 offensive snaps for his career. He actually showed good progress after taking over for Barrett in 2014 to 2015. He's far from a finished product but a year or two on the bench with NFL coaching could put his ceiling at closer to Steve McNair than Culpepper. He just needs a team who can wait 1-2 years before rushing him into a starting role.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't that's a completely fair assessment. You're talking about a QB who had a grand total of 423 offensive snaps for his career. He actually showed good progress after taking over for Barrett in 2014 to 2015. He's far from a finished product but a year or two on the bench with NFL coaching could put his ceiling at closer to Steve McNair than Culpepper. He just needs a team who can wait 1-2 years before rushing him into a starting role.

He needs around 3-4 years.

He's inaccurate, can't read defenses, holds the ball too long, has no confidence.

He's a dude with a big arm - which NFL GMs will always salivate over but no team will try to groom him for 3-4 years to take over because no wants a QB to finally get it when they're 26 or 27 years old based on the shelf life for most NFL players. That and who knows if he will ever get it to begin with.

If this was 15 years ago and he came out after what he did 2 years ago, he would have been a top 5 pick and ended up just like guys like Akili and JMarc.

This doesn't even touch on the fact that Ohio State simply doesn't produce NFL caliber QBs.

Of course he'll be drafted sometime on Day 3. He won't make any teams actual roster. He'll end up on a practice squad. And we'll never hear his name again.

[YardRat]

Would still rather take a chance on Prescott, or even Coker.

[stuckincincy]

Would still rather take a chance on Prescott, or even Coker.

Same here.

[Ed]

He seems to draw the most comparisons to Logan Thomas who was drafted in the 4th. I've heard people say he's more raw or more of a project, which is saying something, but I like him better as a prospect than Thomas.

[Mace]

Would still rather take a chance on Prescott, or even Coker.

I wouldn't mind anyone whoever in the later rounds for the heck of it if they think they're onto something, though I'm dubious it will work. But I just see too many potential solid core players for early airball.

I really think this draft will set some smart teams up for years, and I don't mean with QB's.

[The Jokeman]

How is it any kind of smoke screen? I didn't know GMs smokescreened midround projected players 3 weeks before the draft.

Cardale Jones is a less polished version of Akili Smith coming out of college or if you wanna have some higher aspirations for him as an NFL QB, Daunte Culpepper. Except the problem is it's gonna take more years than any NFL team ever invests in a player anymore to get him to whatever his ceiling potential is.

Culpepper is the guy I thought of too but think Daunte was more of a finished product coming out of school than Jones is.

[Frenchman]

Daunte in the last few years of his NFL life, played pretty injured.

[DraftBoy]

He needs around 3-4 years.

He's inaccurate, can't read defenses, holds the ball too long, has no confidence.

Agree, but that's a mechanical issue I think more than a mental one.

Agreed that comes with a lack of snaps and attention in coaching.

Agreed, see above.

Disagree strongly. He has almost too much confidence in his arms at times. I'd add he is immature as a player and what I mean is that he doesn't respond well to adversity in his play. When he struggles he doesn't mentally bounce back and to me that is his biggest concern by far.


He's a dude with a big arm - which NFL GMs will always salivate over but no team will try to groom him for 3-4 years to take over because no wants a QB to finally get it when they're 26 or 27 years old based on the shelf life for most NFL players. That and who knows if he will ever get it to begin with.

Agreed, that big arm plus big body with ability to move will make an GM salivate. But you're pulling 3-4 years out of thin air, you have no way to quantify that. We just don't know enough.


If this was 15 years ago and he came out after what he did 2 years ago, he would have been a top 5 pick and ended up just like guys like Akili and JMarc.

Disagree, both Smith and Russell has rather prolific college careers. Both Smith and Russell had over 1,000 college snaps, both had years where they threw for 3,000+ yards and 25 TD's. Comparing the three isn't accurate outside of trying to die Jones to NFL busts.


This doesn't even touch on the fact that Ohio State simply doesn't produce NFL caliber QBs.

You could make the same argument about Urban Meyer.


Of course he'll be drafted sometime on Day 3. He won't make any teams actual roster. He'll end up on a practice squad. And we'll never hear his name again.

I think you'll be proven wrong on this one. He'll make a roster as a QB #3 and spend the entire season inactive.

- - - Updated - - -


Would still rather take a chance on Prescott, or even Coker.

If we're taking a QB in the mid-rounds give me Hack or Cook over anybody else.

[Night Train]

I'd rather have Hackenberg.


AnalysisI don’t know that I’ve ever seen a draftable quarterback produce two years of terrible tape, miss a plethora of gimme throws all over the field, post ridiculously low accuracy percentages over his entire career, and yet still be talked about in the first-second round range. You can blame James Franklin or the Penn State offensive line for Hackenberg’s disastrous three-year stretch as a Nittany Lion, but the result is the same regardless of the cause. Hackenberg is one of the more inaccurate quarterbacks in the past several classes, struggling under pressure due to his slow internal clock and tendency to load the ball up with an elongated delivery process. His deep ball is rarely close to being on target, and Hackenberg is not much better in the short game, where he missed simple routes like hitches and screens with disturbing regularity. Still, the big passer has a pro-style build, a strong arm, and the physical and mental upside to be worth a late flier for a team that thinks they can rebuild the once promising passer into an NFL-worthy talent.
Grade: 7th Round

[HHURRICANE]

This sounds more like cover your butt mode. When Tyrod regresses, and he will, at least the Bills will look like they were addressing the issue when media was talking extension.

Tyrod is not a franchise QB. I'd rather see the Bills trade him and draft every QB in the draft available.

[DraftBoy]

AnalysisI don’t know that I’ve ever seen a draftable quarterback produce two years of terrible tape, miss a plethora of gimme throws all over the field, post ridiculously low accuracy percentages over his entire career, and yet still be talked about in the first-second round range. You can blame James Franklin or the Penn State offensive line for Hackenberg’s disastrous three-year stretch as a Nittany Lion, but the result is the same regardless of the cause. Hackenberg is one of the more inaccurate quarterbacks in the past several classes, struggling under pressure due to his slow internal clock and tendency to load the ball up with an elongated delivery process. His deep ball is rarely close to being on target, and Hackenberg is not much better in the short game, where he missed simple routes like hitches and screens with disturbing regularity. Still, the big passer has a pro-style build, a strong arm, and the physical and mental upside to be worth a late flier for a team that thinks they can rebuild the once promising passer into an NFL-worthy talent.
Grade: 7th Round

Hack was a kid who probably shouldn't have been rushed into duty at Penn State as early as he was. I realize he was supposed to be the next great thing, but he clearly wasn't ready. I also think losing O'Brien after year one really hurt him. That's not to blame Franklin but the kid was built for O'Brien's system and I'm not sure he ever jelled with Franklin.

With Hack the issue is that he has lost all confidence and you could see it week in and week out last season. Balls go thrown up for grabs, he didn't trust his arm or his teammates, and he was clearly constantly frustrated. The question is can he regain his confidence and fix his delivery issues? He's got high upside but he's another QB who needs to sit and learn.

And yes, I would say that there is not a single Day 1 starting QB in this entire class. Lots of upside and potential but mostly really raw prospects.

[Mr. Pink]

So I don't quote a long DB post...

3-4 years is a lengthy pulled out of the air number I agree, but he has had literally no time in college to attempt to hone his skills. He had a nice run to get Ohio State a National Championship and then at any sign of adversity last year, he was simply yanked by Meyer to go back to Barrett.

The fact he was constantly yanked at any problem, is gonna shake anyone's confidence. You're forced to play almost perfectly, while constantly looking over your shoulder, just wondering when you're gonna pulled out of another game. Cardale's lack of confidence doesn't stem from himself, it stems from his situation. Meyer was trying to win a National Championship not develop a QB.

Because Cardale was never developed to even NCAA level competition, it's gonna take that much longer to develop him to NFL level competition. Maybe he takes 1-2 years to develop but it would be more surprising to me that he does that then him even making an NFL roster in 2016.

[Victor7]

By "Bills are enamored with Jones" we really area talking Whaley. This is his type. Big athletic dude with a live arm that sucks. Same as with EJ. A physical prodigy with ZERO talent to be an actual QB. You know, read defenses, go through progressions and fire accurate balls and not just airmail long arched ones.

For ****s sake he only started playing after 2 guys got hurt (I know he was a sophomore but still 3rd on the depth chart isn't good). He has a grand total of 11 career starts.

This guy is a 7th round pick or an undrafted FA at best. Anything before that is a travesty.

****ing Doug Whaley.

[YardRat]

http://buffalowdown.com/2016/04/16/qb-cardale-jones-will-make-pre-draft-visit-to-the-bills/

Quarterback Cardale Jones will make a pre-draft visit to the Bills.

He has one of the strongest arms in the draft for a quarterback. What concerns teams is that he has accuracy problems and poor game management skills. His completion percentage in college was just north of 61%. Many of the things said about Cardale Jones are similar to what could be said about E.J. Manuel which is a scary thought for most Bills fans.

[Night Train]

http://buffalowdown.com/2016/04/16/qb-cardale-jones-will-make-pre-draft-visit-to-the-bills/

Quarterback Cardale Jones will make a pre-draft visit to the Bills.

He has one of the strongest arms in the draft for a quarterback. What concerns teams is that he has accuracy problems and poor game management skills. His completion percentage in college was just north of 61%. Many of the things said about Cardale Jones are similar to what could be said about E.J. Manuel which is a scary thought for most Bills fans.

I'm certainly not going to bat for him, as someone who watches every Buckeye game. As I stated in another thread, he's too raw. He was Braxton Millers backup, then even dropped to #3 behind Barrett. Yesterday at the Buckeye spring game, he was there. Threw a ball flatfooted 67 yards. But he lacked experience reading the D, progressing through reads. Footwork needs coaching. Too raw and needs at least a year to learn the game.

Prescott could play now if injury hit your starter. Far more experienced, with 3 + years starting in the SEC.

[k-oneputt]

Hackenberg.

and I have no idea who came up with that 7th round grade.
I guarantee he gets drafted way before that.

[swiper]

Analysis

I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a draftable quarterback produce two years of terrible tape, miss a plethora of gimme throws all over the field, post ridiculously low accuracy percentages over his entire career, and yet still be talked about in the first-second round range. You can blame James Franklin or the Penn State offensive line for Hackenberg’s disastrous three-year stretch as a Nittany Lion, but the result is the same regardless of the cause. Hackenberg is one of the more inaccurate quarterbacks in the past several classes, struggling under pressure due to his slow internal clock and tendency to load the ball up with an elongated delivery process. His deep ball is rarely close to being on target, and Hackenberg is not much better in the short game, where he missed simple routes like hitches and screens with disturbing regularity. Still, the big passer has a pro-style build, a strong arm, and the physical and mental upside to be worth a late flier for a team that thinks they can rebuild the once promising passer into an NFL-worthy talent.
Grade: 7th Round



LOL. John Gruden disagrees with whoever you dug up there:

Jon Gruden will be “shocked” if Hackenberg isn’t a first-round pick (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/19/jon-gruden-will-be-shocked-if-hackenberg-isnt-a-first-round-pick/)

[YardRat]

Jon Gruden is usually shocked when 20 QB's don't go in the first round.

[Mace]

Jon Gruden is usually shocked when 20 QB's don't go in the first round.

I miss his game commentary every offseason. It's got to be fun being Jon Gruden.

[stuckincincy]

More piling-on Cardale. IMO, pretty poor of Brinson to write this gratuitous article. I'm sure he'd say he's just relating what others said. Cripes - why bash the young fellow that way? If you have reached maturity - especially in this day and age of youngsters facing an astoundingly different, harsher world than the one the likes of me grew up in, you offer your hand in aid and guidance, not to deliver a slap across the chops. :str8face:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25562461/an-anonymous-scout-called-cardale-jones-a-poor-mans-jamarcus-russell

[swiper]

More piling-on Cardale. IMO, pretty poor of Brinson to write this gratuitous article. I'm sure he'd say he's just relating what others said. Cripes - why bash the young fellow that way? If you have reached maturity - especially in this day and age of youngsters facing an astoundingly different, harsher world than the one the likes of me grew up in, you offer your hand in aid and guidance, not to deliver a slap across the chops. :str8face:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/25562461/an-anonymous-scout-called-cardale-jones-a-poor-mans-jamarcus-russell

That article was anything but gratuitous. You should go look that word up so you understand how to use it properly next time you want to try to sound smart. And, if you read it, Brinson is quoting McGinn and the scouts he interviewed, so virtually non of that article is Brinson's opinion. Furthermore the description is spot on. Cardale Jones is pure garbage in the NFL.

[stuckincincy]

That article was anything but gratuitous. You should go look that word up so you understand how to use it properly next time you want to try to sound smart. And, if you read it, Brinson is quoting McGinn and the scouts he interviewed, so virtually non of that article is Brinson's opinion. Furthermore the description is spot on. Cardale Jones is pure garbage in the NFL.


:pray: