The 2013 Draft-after three full seasons

[YardRat]

1-EJ Manuel
2-Robert Woods
2-Kiko Alonso
3-Marquis Goodwin
4-Duke Williams
5-Jonathon Meeks
6-Dustin Hopkins
7-Chris Gragg

Can't really grade a draft for three years, right?

So what is your grade now?

[DraftBoy]

D

Only thing that saved it from being a F was that you did technically get one starter out of it in Robert Woods.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

From Bills perspective, Kiko netted them McCoy, who should be considered a full time starter.

[Yasgur's Farm]

From Bills perspective, Kiko netted them McCoy, who should be considered a full time starter.yup

[YardRat]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/218535-I-m-In-Love-With-This-Draft

[Oaf]

B-

Woods, McCoy then a bunch of trash. Glad we traded down from 8 to 16 to get Woods.

[YardRat]

From Bills perspective, Kiko netted them McCoy, who should be considered a full time starter.

So Kelvin Sheppard should be considered a good draft pick because they traded him for Hughes?

[Mace]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/218535-I-m-In-Love-With-This-Draft

Feel the same about it. Manuel turned out no good, but all the qb's in that draft turned out no good and we HAD to take one. Should have been in the 2nd. Liked the Alonso pick.

I think Woods would have done better somewhere else.

D.

[Ingtar33]

1-EJ Manuel
2-Robert Woods
2-Kiko Alonso
3-Marquis Goodwin
4-Duke Williams
5-Jonathon Meeks
6-Dustin Hopkins
7-Chris Gragg

Can't really grade a draft for three years, right?

So what is your grade now?

Well, Woods and Alonso were the only players I liked in 2013, depressing I was right about it. I remember going nuts about how atrocious this draft was. Though I do remember Gragg making some plays last season, didn't even know he was still with the team till last year. Good job to him for hanging on despite the round 7 pedigree.

[k-oneputt]

Woods is a marginal #2 at that. Really a #3 or #4 but a #2 on this team.

I would like to have Hopkins back now.

[Mr. Pink]

If Kiko wasn't traded to bring in McCoy this draft would have been an F.

With the trade, D+

Robert Woods alone doesn't give you a passing grade.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Yikes, this draft is not good.

I would give it a D. If you want to consider the Kiko-McCoy trade, I'd bump it to a C-. Also, if we kept Hopkins, I'd bump it up to a C+.

Nix was still involved with this draft class, wasn't he?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Robert Woods alone doesn't give you a passing grade.

You have to consider Kiko, though. Whether you consider his trade as part of the draft grade or not, it should be noted that Kiko provided value to the Bills while he was on our roster. He would still be providing some value if he were here.

[DraftBoy]

You have to consider Kiko, though. Whether you consider his trade as part of the draft grade or not, it should be noted that Kiko provided value to the Bills while he was on our roster. He would still be providing some value if he were here.

His value was greatly over exaggerated by most of the fan base. There is a reason he was traded not once but twice in a short amount of time.

[Mr. Pink]

His value was greatly over exaggerated by most of the fan base. There is a reason he was traded not once but twice in a short amount of time.

Plus the fact he's now an injury risk and only started one game last year with Philly.

As much as running backs are a dime a dozen in this league, outside of AP, we completely fleeced Philly on that trade.

Although they didn't do too horribly bad in a completely roundabout kind of way as LeSean in reality ends up being an attached piece for them to draft Wentz.

[trapezeus]

ugly draft. technically whaley's first. the bills killed themselves with buddy trashing Fitzpatrick. had they gotten one more year out of him and maybe had another lack luster season, we would have been able to pick in a better class. kiko at least played well for that season to get a trade worth a decent return. duke Williams may compete with ej for worst in that draft. ej's badness is more prominent and easier to see, but duke Williams is trash.

[DraftBoy]

Plus the fact he's now an injury risk and only started one game last year with Philly.

As much as running backs are a dime a dozen in this league, outside of AP, we completely fleeced Philly on that trade.

Although they didn't do too horribly bad in a completely roundabout kind of way as LeSean in reality ends up being an attached piece for them to draft Wentz.

They better pray that Wentz can light it up. If there is any place where you can't afford for a youngster to struggle its the unforgiving confines of Philly.

[Joe Fo Sho]

His value was greatly over exaggerated by most of the fan base. There is a reason he was traded not once but twice in a short amount of time.

He still had value though. He was the Pro Football Writers of America Defensive Rookie of the Year and runner up for AP Defensive Rookie of the year. That's gotta count for something.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

ugly draft. technically whaley's first. the bills killed themselves with buddy trashing Fitzpatrick. had they gotten one more year out of him and maybe had another lack luster season, we would have been able to pick in a better class. kiko at least played well for that season to get a trade worth a decent return. duke Williams may compete with ej for worst in that draft. ej's badness is more prominent and easier to see, but duke Williams is trash.

Technically Nix's last. Personally I never bought into the notion that Whaley's called shots in Nix's last draft. It's a bunch of media guess work seeking attention. If you haven't been around these GM types and believing that they have no egos in terms of pulling the draft cards, you are sadly mistaken.

The drafts of 2014, 2015 and 2016 are such a departure from the past where you saw bold moves that are typical of a young GM. Gone are the feeling of steady but dull hands of old guard like Nix, Modrak, and Donahoe. I don't know bold moves are necessarily better but the style is so different you can easily see.

[trapezeus]

GHZ, agreed that its hard to know. whaley did posture about that EJ was his pick alone. but he was also forced into a qb pick in a weak class thanks to nix. he's done well evaluating talent, specifically defensively, that I am willing to give him a pass.

I am torn on being bold. good teams stack picks and get depth. bad teams trade up. that's been relatively true for about the last 5-8 years.

on the other hand, I love that they are giving rex everything. I really don't want to hear excuses about failure this year.

I suspect rex will be his own worst enemy and he will blow this. if the bills end with a top5 pick, they should move from rex immediately. they are in great shape to draft a qb early next year, have defensive talent to work with and maybe get some linemen.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I'm a little torn on the QB situation in Buffalo. If you ask me, the Bills just missed the big hook they had with the Dallas trade. Had Jerry Jones bite the 1st round pick (which he really should if he truly wants Lynch), the Bills would have the Cowboys 2017 1st pick that in my opinion, a likely top 10 pick with a 36 year injury prone (and play style Prone) Romo. A great chance for the Bills to pick a top flight QB prospect.

Watching Whaley, I think his tone has not been averting drafting QBs every year, but rather he's more inclined to stick with the draft value. I truly believe with the inevitable departure of EJ next year, they will draft another QB. I just don't agree with Whaley's philosophy of a Buffalo QB must have strong arms. How's Brady workout in NE where the weather condition is not much better? To me a QB who has upside reading defense and being accurate should outweigh everything else.

[Buffalogic]

Horrible draft but 2013 was a bust fest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NFL_draft)

[YardRat]

I hadn't seen anything where Dallas was offering their '17 first rounder to move up. Did they really?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I hadn't seen anything where Dallas was offering their '17 first rounder to move up. Did they really?

No they didn't. But Buffalo demanded. Reportedly Jerry Jones regretted that he didn't over pay.

Didn't the Bills paid Dalls similar package to draft Losman?

[YardRat]

No they didn't. But Buffalo demanded. Reportedly Jerry Jones regretted that he didn't over pay.

Didn't the Bills paid Dalls similar package to draft Losman?

Well, yeah, but if Dallas never actually put that pick on the table it's a moot point.

[gebobs]

Woods is a marginal #2 at that. Really a #3 or #4 but a #2 on this team.

I would like to have Hopkins back now.

The Bills signed UGA kicker Marshall Morgan. Of course, he sucks.

[gebobs]

As much as running backs are a dime a dozen in this league, outside of AP, we completely fleeced Philly on that trade.
Wasn't it really a salary dump on Philly's part?

[k-oneputt]

The Bills signed UGA kicker Marshall Morgan. Of course, he sucks.

Well since you are from Atlanta that should make you an expert on him and all the Georgia players. Why don't you give us a rundown on his strengths and weaknesses.
Personally I didn't think he was anything special but if he is capable of killing two birds with one stone I'm all for it.

[gebobs]

Well since you are from Atlanta that should make you an expert on him and all the Georgia players. Why don't you give us a rundown on his strengths and weaknesses.
Personally I didn't think he was anything special but if he is capable of killing two birds with one stone I'm all for it.

Let me get this straight. You don't think he's "anything special" yet you saw fit to sarcastically call me an "expert" because I gave my own same opinion. Is there some reason you needed to get in that dig?

[k-oneputt]

So we got a free agent kicker who "sucks" ?
Just checking.

[gebobs]

So we got a free agent kicker who "sucks" ?
Just checking.

I really don't see the point in what you are trying to do here. If all you want to say is this basically a free roll of the dice, then why don't you just come out and say it?

Unless his leg strength improves markedly by August, he's going to be a free agent come game day. He missed half his FGs from 40-49 last year alone. He's going to be selling used cars back in Fort Lauderdale by October.

At least they didn't trade up to take a kicker in the second round like Tampa. That was a head scratcher.

[YardRat]

So we got a free agent kicker who "sucks" ?
Just checking.

Considering how few get drafted, there is room for that distinction.

[k-oneputt]

Since you were reply to my take I thought you were saying I think he sucks, and actually I really don't think much of him.
But as stated if he can take over both kicking jobs I'm all for it.

[swiper]

F

[feldspar]

So Kelvin Sheppard should be considered a good draft pick because they traded him for Hughes?

Why not?

[DraftBoy]

Why not?

Because he's horrible.

Making a good pick and flipping a bad pick are two entirely different moves.

[gebobs]

Since you were reply to my take I thought you were saying I think he sucks, and actually I really don't think much of him.
But as stated if he can take over both kicking jobs I'm all for it.

For the record, I'm with you on Dustin Hopkins but this guy is not that good. He'll never start for the Bills or even be a kickoff specialist. He'll be among the first cuts.

[Mace]

I just don't agree with Whaley's philosophy of a Buffalo QB must have strong arms. How's Brady workout in NE where the weather condition is not much better? To me a QB who has upside reading defense and being accurate should outweigh everything else.

Brady looks like he has a pretty good arm to me. Noodle armed QB's get you Fitzs & Penningtons trying so hard to get the ball where they can't when they have to. Kind of hard not wanting a strong armed passer, because well, he has to pass, and we sort of have a Watkins that can run pretty far pretty fast.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Kiko was a great find, Woods is replaceable and the rest are below average.

I'm not going to sit here and fault the EJ pick.

I remember the heated discussions that year in preparation for the draft, none of us knew wtf to do.

All I knew is that first pick had to be a QB, and they took the one they thought would be best.

Turns out they were all bad. That's how she goes sometimes.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Brady looks like he has a pretty good arm to me. Noodle armed QB's get you Fitzs & Penningtons trying so hard to get the ball where they can't when they have to. Kind of hard not wanting a strong armed passer, because well, he has to pass, and we sort of have a Watkins that can run pretty far pretty fast.

Not when he's drafted and not when he replaced Bledsoe. Brady's adequate arm more or less developed in his 3rd/th year in NFL

[YardRat]

I love going back thru old draft threads...

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/archive/index.php/f-2-p-328.html

[Mace]

Not when he's drafted and not when he replaced Bledsoe. Brady's adequate arm more or less developed in his 3rd/th year in NFL

Belichick sheltered him at the start with a running game and didn't take the reins off until he was comfortable. Brady always had the same arm, just wasn't so prepared to use it early in his career. Weak armed QB's don't suddenly get strong arms, they stay weak armed short ball QB's.

[tomz]

Horrible draft but 2013 was a bust fest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NFL_draft)

Wow, that was godawful up and down the board. Thanks for the link.

[Mace]

I love going back thru old draft threads...

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/archive/index.php/f-2-p-328.html

You should, they're awesome with people forgetting what they said about who and never admitting it. I still pretty much remember who I liked when and why, whether or not they worked. I thought Losman was a great pick to replace the statue Bledsoe, because they said they wanted to run and gun, then made him into a statue instead. Looking back on it, even when he tried to run and gun without permission it went badly. Bad pick I thought was great at the time. I admit it. Wasn't on any boards back then, but freely admit I thought Polian was the dumbest GM hire, installing Levy the stupidest HC hire, etc etc....

I find it funny to look back at my own mindset sometimes.

[YardRat]

You should, they're awesome with people forgetting what they said about who and never admitting it. I still pretty much remember who I liked when and why, whether or not they worked. I thought Losman was a great pick to replace the statue Bledsoe, because they said they wanted to run and gun, then made him into a statue instead. Looking back on it, even when he tried to run and gun without permission it went badly. Bad pick I thought was great at the time. I admit it. Wasn't on any boards back then, but freely admit I thought Polian was the dumbest GM hire, installing Levy the stupidest HC hire, etc etc....

I find it funny to look back at my own mindset sometimes.


I really didn't like the Levy hire myself, and remember wishing they would cut Reich and Beebe during preseasons.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I know most of you love a good circle jerk but it was actually a terrible draft for most teams.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/fifth-year-options-declined--mingo--warmack--ej-manuel--patterson-190443294.html

[Generalissimus Gibby]

C: Kiko netted us McCoy, Woods seemed like a sure fire and EJ was the best of a bad class.

[feldspar]

Because he's horrible.

Making a good pick and flipping a bad pick are two entirely different moves.

Obviously.

But without the Sheppard pick, we wouldn't have Hughes though...or we'd have to give up something else to get him. I consider the trade as an act of redemption, and I can't help but make the link between the two players. Drafting Sheppard wound up getting us Hughes. Yeah, it was two different moves, but the net result of the pick was Hughes. It was not a wasted pick. That's the way I look at it. And you can't stop me!

[gebobs]

Obviously.

But without the Sheppard pick, we wouldn't have Hughes though...or we'd have to give up something else to get him. I consider the trade as an act of redemption, and I can't help but make the link between the two players. Drafting Sheppard wound up getting us Hughes. Yeah, it was two different moves, but the net result of the pick was Hughes. It was not a wasted pick. That's the way I look at it. And you can't stop me!

The question is not about a trade or any redemption. It's about the value of the pick in the draft. Hopefully, our general manager is not thinking, hey, this guy might not be a good fit but he'll make great trade bait.

[DraftBoy]

Obviously.

But without the Sheppard pick, we wouldn't have Hughes though...or we'd have to give up something else to get him. I consider the trade as an act of redemption, and I can't help but make the link between the two players. Drafting Sheppard wound up getting us Hughes. Yeah, it was two different moves, but the net result of the pick was Hughes. It was not a wasted pick. That's the way I look at it. And you can't stop me!

Too many variables to say all of that. I understand the thought process though.

[feldspar]

The question is not about a trade or any redemption. It's about the value of the pick in the draft. Hopefully, our general manager is not thinking, hey, this guy might not be a good fit but he'll make great trade bait.

The question is about adapting. Hopefully, the General Manager is ALWAYS looking to upgrade the roster any way he can; in fact, that's his job. Nobody is going to hit on even half his picks...that's the thing he needs to understand, and I think he does. I mean it's obvious. Everyone should know this. I hope the GM thinks "Hey, this guy might great trade bait" if it reaches that point. That's how you get Jerry Hughes instead of Kelvin Sheppard.

I could look at it any way that I want. It makes sense to me that trading down for EJ eventually landed us McCoy, for example. Look at the progression.

Was Kelvin Sheppard a good pick? Of course not. Again, the question is about adapting. Drafting players isn't an exact science by a long shot. Everyone whiffs, and then it becomes what you do about the whiff. Most times you just have to eat it.

Just elementary, my dear Watson.

[gebobs]

The question is about adapting. Hopefully, the General Manager is ALWAYS looking to upgrade the roster any way he can;

That's fine. Let's evaluate then:

Drafting: Crummy
Adapting: Super! (at least in this case)


in fact, that's his job. Nobody is going to hit on even half his picks
The thread is about this draft. A lousy draft overall, by any account. And a particularly lousy one for the Bills regardless of whoever was responsible. What they did thereafter to salvage the team is fine but is not directly relevant to the value of the draft. The disclaimer always is you can't evaluate a draft for three years. Three years later, here we are. How did they do on draft day, not how did they do to salvage the draft day?


Was Kelvin Sheppard a good pick? Of course not. Again, the question is about adapting. Drafting players isn't an exact science by a long shot. Everyone whiffs, and then it becomes what you do about the whiff. Most times you just have to eat it.

I agree. And the Bills are particularly bad at the whole gamut. Especially if you lend any credence to that study that says the Bills seemingly draft better than most teams, at least after the first round. Admittedly, Whaley has only been at the helm for three drafts now so next year we can look at 2014 to start. And overall, we can look back on 2016 and see if his efforts, drafting or otherwise, bear any fruit.

[Buffalogic]

Spoiler: 2013 was a terrible draft class

Spoiler: 2013 was a bad draft for the bills