Shaq Lawson update...

[HHURRICANE]

I know there are conflicting reports on when Lawson will be back but I can tell you that he will not be playing this year. I talked to two friends close to the situation and he's literally working on swinging his arm 6 inches back and forth right now. He'll be lucky to be lifting in November.

Kind of disappointed to say the least.

[Skooby]

I know there are conflicting reports on when Lawson will be back but I can tell you that he will not be playing this year. I talked to two friends close to the situation and he's literally working on swinging his arm 6 inches back and forth right now. He'll be lucky to be lifting in November.

Kind of disappointed to say the least.

Thanks for the update, there's always next year (16 years a running).

[trapezeus]

I've heard the same thing. November at earliest and this was known at the time of surgery. he may be rushed back into the swing of things if rex is fighting for his job. but he should miss the season. russ Brandon and the smarter than the other team maneuvers have literally never worked for us.

[Bill Cody]

Too bad about Shaw. How's Shaq doing?

[Goobylal]

I'll wait for a definitive answer.

[trapezeus]

if you've known anyone with shoulder surgery it takes a long time to get to the point of having flexibility and range of motion. meaning it takes a long time of rehab to get to the point to lift again. I would think Shaq would need to get his upper body back to be in game shape and be effective. the bills gambled and it burned them in the short term. we will see if he bounces back and has no issues. then it wouldn't be the worst thing if he has 4-6 really good years. but they looked to him to be an immediate fix for Mario leaving. and they don't have that. it is a front office fail for the nth number of times in this 16year drought

[Dr. Lecter]

I've heard just the opposite - that barring a set back he will be back this year

[OpIv37]

Someone made the claim about the longer recovery time on a radio show this morning. Coach Sal refuted it and said the original 4-6 game time frame was most likely.

I don't know who to believe but I don't think it matters much. Even if it's just 4 games, we'll be lucky to be 1-3 by the time he comes back. I just hope he can get a few games in so he can get over the rookie learning curve now and be ready for next year.

[Albany,n.y.]

As long as he makes it back for the playoffs & can play in the Super Bowl.

[OpIv37]

As long as he makes it back for the playoffs & can play in the Super Bowl.

****, we traded him already?

[YardRat]

I edited the thread title for spelling.

[Victor7]

This is the Bills we are talking about. I'd be surprised if he plays a down in 2016. And if he does how long until its discovered he was rushed back and he gets hurt again ??

[Mace]

I just hope he can get a few games in so he can get over the rookie learning curve now and be ready for next year.

I do too, but I don't trust their medical staff anymore. Playing two games and damaging it again it would be seriously aggravating. I hope he's smart enough to get multiple opinions.

[Goobylal]

Someone made the claim about the longer recovery time on a radio show this morning. Coach Sal refuted it and said the original 4-6 game time frame was most likely.

I don't know who to believe but I don't think it matters much. Even if it's just 4 games, we'll be lucky to be 1-3 by the time he comes back. I just hope he can get a few games in so he can get over the rookie learning curve now and be ready for next year.

LOL! One and three? I see three and one (Arizona).

[OpIv37]

LOL! One and three? I see three and one (Arizona).
NE is a L even without Brady (especially since our only pass-rushing threat is Hughes and they'll game plan around him). Remember, they beat us 2x without him the year he was hurt.

Balt isn't what they once were, but they are not as bad as they seemed last year. The schedule and injuries ****ed them. And the opener in their house? L.

The travel may **** with AZ but they are a better team than us. L

The only possible win I see is over the Jets, and with a short week and this team's historical struggles in night games, that's not even a guarantee.

[OpIv37]

Looking at the schedule again, I'm thinking 3-6 at the break. Even with my doubts, I'll call the home opener a win, and there is no excuse for not beating SF at home. The Rams aren't good, but the WC road trip is tough, and we should beat the Fish, but it is in their house. I'll say we take one of those two.

The rest are losses.

[ICRockets]

I'm not even going to try to guess our record. I love our offense, I hate our head coach. No clue how to reconcile those 2 things to make a prediction that sounds accurate.

[Goobylal]

NE is a L even without Brady (especially since our only pass-rushing threat is Hughes and they'll game plan around him). Remember, they beat us 2x without him the year he was hurt.

Balt isn't what they once were, but they are not as bad as they seemed last year. The schedule and injuries ****ed them. And the opener in their house? L.

The travel may **** with AZ but they are a better team than us. L

The only possible win I see is over the Jets, and with a short week and this team's historical struggles in night games, that's not even a guarantee.

The Ravens are a shell of their former selves. Flacco's contract has hamstrung them and their talent has eroded thanks to that, uncharacteristically poor drafting by Ozzie, age, and FA defections.

Without Brady, the Pats are beatable. Garroppoolloo is a nobody and the Bills will feast on him.

The Bills own the Jets. It will be even worse if Geno starts.

They'll lose at Arizona for sure.

[OpIv37]

The Ravens are a shell of their former selves. Flacco's contract has hamstrung them and their talent has eroded thanks to that, uncharacteristically poor drafting by Ozzie, age, and FA defections.

Without Brady, the Pats are beatable. Garroppoolloo is a nobody and the Bills will feast on him.

The Bills own the Jets. It will be even worse if Geno starts.

They'll lose at Arizona for sure.

Again, the Ravens aren't as bad as they appeared last year. They had a brutal schedule and a ton of injuries.

The Bills have done well against the Jets, but it's a night game on a short week. And the Patriots own us but somehow that "one team owns the other" logic doesn't apply there? Come on. There are countless times when the Pats were mired in injuries and they still whopped us, including without Brady twice. And it's in Foxboro. IIRC, the only time the Bills have ever won there was when the game was meaningless for them.

[TacklingDummy]

I know there are conflicting reports on when Lawson will be back but I can tell you that he will not be playing this year. I talked to two friends close to the situation and he's literally working on swinging his arm 6 inches back and forth right now. He'll be lucky to be lifting in November.

Kind of disappointed to say the least.

Nothing new, the Bills like wasting 1st round picks.

[SpikedLemonade]

I know there are conflicting reports on when Lawson will be back but I can tell you that he will not be playing this year. I talked to two friends close to the situation and he's literally working on swinging his arm 6 inches back and forth right now. He'll be lucky to be lifting in November.

Kind of disappointed to say the least.

Doug Whaley will be fired at the end of this year.

[stuckincincy]

Someone made the claim about the longer recovery time on a radio show this morning. Coach Sal refuted it and said the original 4-6 game time frame was most likely.

I don't know who to believe but I don't think it matters much. Even if it's just 4 games, we'll be lucky to be 1-3 by the time he comes back. I just hope he can get a few games in so he can get over the rookie learning curve now and be ready for next year.

You are right.

[Goobylal]

Again, the Ravens aren't as bad as they appeared last year. They had a brutal schedule and a ton of injuries.

The Bills have done well against the Jets, but it's a night game on a short week. And the Patriots own us but somehow that "one team owns the other" logic doesn't apply there? Come on. There are countless times when the Pats were mired in injuries and they still whopped us, including without Brady twice. And it's in Foxboro. IIRC, the only time the Bills have ever won there was when the game was meaningless for them.

The Ravens probably won't be much better this year. Sure they had some injuries, but they weren't playing well during the first half of the season (going 2-6) when most of their players were still healthy. And Suggs, who missed almost the entire season, is coming back from an achilles injury, which is a tough injury to come back from for a young guy, much less one who is 33 (it's worse for Steve Smith Sr., who is 37).

You do realize the Jets are also playing on a short week and the game is in Buffalo, right? Huge advantage Bills.

And the Pats have owned the Bills...with Brady at QB. He's a HOF'er. Garroopppollo is not even close.

[OpIv37]

The Ravens probably won't be much better this year. Sure they had some injuries, but they weren't playing well during the first half of the season (going 2-6) when most of their players were still healthy. And Suggs, who missed almost the entire season, is coming back from an achilles injury, which is a tough injury to come back from for a young guy, much less one who is 33 (it's worse for Steve Smith Sr., who is 37).

You do realize the Jets are also playing on a short week and the game is in Buffalo, right? Huge advantage Bills.

And the Pats have owned the Bills...with Brady at QB. He's a HOF'er. Garroopppollo is not even close.

Yeah yeah... Every time we play the Pats, "so and so is injured and that gives us a huge advantage" and they whoop us anyway. Pats are 2-0 against the Bills without Brady since he became the starter. Bills have a terrible record in Foxboro.

You are underselling the challenges of the Ravens' schedule when they went 2-6. It's in their house, first game of the year.

[MikeInRoch]

Nothing new, the Bills like wasting 1st round picks.

I wasn't aware that we were obligated to release him after the season.

[feldspar]

I edited the thread title for spelling.

Well, you're no fun.

A friend of mine close to the situation tells me that Ronald Trump will be the next President.

[DraftBoy]

I hope he can make it back for at least 6-8 games that will get him enough snaps to gain some needed playing time and get his rookie learning curve accelerated as Op says.

Couldn't care less about his numbers this year, just want him to get some snaps in and get back to full health.

[justasportsfan]

Even if it's just 4 games, we'll be lucky to be 1-3 by the time he comes back.

I may not have that much confidence in Rexy getting us to the SB but cmon , we can beat the Ravens and especially the jets. Thats just crazy but then again I forget who I am quoting

[BuffRanger]

Brandon and Whaley both ****ing suck.

[OpIv37]

I may not have that much confidence in Rexy getting us to the SB but cmon , we can beat the Ravens and especially the jets. Thats just crazy but then again I forget who I am quoting

For the third time: the Ravens got screwed by injuries and the schedule last year. And it's the opener in their house. It's not going to be a win.

[justasportsfan]

For the third time: the Ravens got screwed by injuries and the schedule last year. And it's the opener in their house. It's not going to be a win.

Ok. but the jets without Fitz at buffalo? We'll be "lucky" to beat them?

[OpIv37]

Ok. but the jets without Fitz at buffalo? We'll be "lucky" to beat them?

Night game on a short week. A home opener loss on national TV to his former team would be crazy embarrassing for Rex. Of the first 4, this is the most likely win, but it's also the kind of game the Bills usually blow.

[Bill Cody]

I talked to two friends close to the situation and he's literally working on swinging his arm 6 inches back and forth right now.

Your friends are confused. This has nothing to do with his rehab, I can tell you from personal experience

[Goobylal]

Yeah yeah... Every time we play the Pats, "so and so is injured and that gives us a huge advantage" and they whoop us anyway. Pats are 2-0 against the Bills without Brady since he became the starter. Bills have a terrible record in Foxboro.

You are underselling the challenges of the Ravens' schedule when they went 2-6. It's in their house, first game of the year.

Brady is more than a "so and so" player. And they don't have anywhere near the talent that 2008 team did.

And the Ravens' first-half schedule included losses to the Browns, 49'ers, and Chargers, who were a combined 9-36 if you remove their wins over the Ravens. Suffice it to say, their problems had little to do with injuries and schedule.


Night game on a short week. A home opener loss on national TV to his former team would be crazy embarrassing for Rex. Of the first 4, this is the most likely win, but it's also the kind of game the Bills usually blow.

Again, it's a short week for both teams. Why you keep mentioning it as if it's just a short week for the Bills is anyone's guess? It's the home opener for the Bills and as such they'll have far more motivation than they did when they faced the Jets at the end of both teams' seasons.

[OpIv37]

Brady is more than a "so and so" player. And they don't have anywhere near the talent that 2008 team did.

And the Ravens' first-half schedule included losses to the Browns, 49'ers, and Chargers, who were a combined 9-36 if you remove their wins over the Ravens. Suffice it to say, their problems had little to do with injuries and schedule.



Again, it's a short week for both teams. Why you keep mentioning it as if it's just a short week for the Bills is anyone's guess? It's the home opener for the Bills and as such they'll have far more motivation than they did when they faced the Jets at the end of both teams' seasons.
You conveniently neglected that those losses to the 49ers and Chargers were on consecutive WC road trips, and conveniently threw out the wins over the Ravens to make the teams look worse.

And you don't think the Jets will be motivated to beat their old coach and a div rival in their home opener on national TV?

Also, I'm not sure if being "motivated" is a good thing for a Rex Ryan team. It seems to mean the same thing as "playing on pure adrenaline and taking even more stupid penalties than usual."

[Joe Fo Sho]

I may not have that much confidence in Rexy getting us to the SB but cmon , we can beat the Ravens and especially the jets. Thats just crazy but then again I forget who I am quoting

Remember when OP predicted the Bills to start 0-3 last year with a point differential of -74? He was only off by 2 wins and 106 points...in 3 games.

[OpIv37]

Remember when OP predicted the Bills to start 0-3 last year with a point differential of -74? He was only off by 2 wins and 106 points...in 3 games.

Did I actually say that? Usually I don't make predictions beyond W-L.

But my track record for predicting W-L on this website has been fairly accurate. I usually have it within one and last year was the first time I was really off. A couple of times I even predicted one MORE win than we ended up with.

[Skooby]

Did I actually say that? Usually I don't make predictions beyond W-L.

But my track record for predicting W-L on this website has been fairly accurate. I usually have it within one and last year was the first time I was really off. A couple of times I even predicted one MORE win than we ended up with.

Picking losing season after 16 years of crap doesn't make you a genius or a Savant, it makes you a realist.

[justasportsfan]

Night game on a short week. A home opener loss on national TV to his former team would be crazy embarrassing for Rex. Of the first 4, this is the most likely win, but it's also the kind of game the Bills usually blow.

We just swept them with their no. 1 qb. WTF are you yapping about ? It's also a short week for them . Like you said earlier about the ravens , it is our home opener.You're arguing with yourself as usual.


Don't give me it's usually a game the bills blow. If this is so, care to place an avatar wager?

[OpIv37]

Picking losing season after 16 years of crap doesn't make you a genius or a Savant, it makes you a realist.

That's what I've been trying to say for years. Yet, people like justa and Gooby always argue with me when I predict losses.

[OpIv37]

We just swept them with their no. 1 qb. WTF are you yapping about ? It's also a short week for them . Like you said earlier about the ravens , it is our home opener.You're arguing with yourself as usual.


Don't give me it's usually a game the bills blow. If this is so, care to place an avatar wager?
I actually said this was the most likely win, which means you're the one arguing with yourself.

[justasportsfan]

That's what I've been trying to say for years. Yet, people like justa and Gooby always argue with me when I predict losses.

against the freakin jets????? Take the bet!

[justasportsfan]

I actually said this was the most likely win, which means you're the one arguing with yourself.


we'll be lucky to be 1-3 by the time he comes back.

this means we'll be lucky to beat the jets. Take the bet!

[Ginger Vitis]

Remember when OP predicted the Bills to start 0-3 last year with a point differential of -74? He was only off by 2 wins and 106 points...in 3 games.

Yes you're very likely right... OPIV predicted Indy would beat Buffalo 38-3 and he predicted Miami would beat Buffalo 24-13.. Someone on this site once said they would love it if OPIV was his bookie he would be a millionaire 10x over

And what is this short week and night game **** paranoia against the Jets.. Last year the Bills went into Metlife Stadium on a Thursday night game with 3 days rest and beat the Jets

[Skooby]

That's what I've been trying to say for years. Yet, people like justa and Gooby always argue with me when I predict losses.

You have to also realize by laws of averages, we will probably do better than expected at some point in our lifetime. From my time alive, the Bills went from being a joke to a good team to being a joke again (16 years a running). The Superbowl loss jokes all ended and everyone else outside of it remembers the Bills being a good team a long time ago. It'll change again and hopefully we catch a few break soon, hope fleeting.

[Ginger Vitis]

And you don't think the Jets will be motivated to beat their old coach and a div rival in their home opener on national TV?

"

The jets lost to Rex on national TV last year on a Thursday night in Metlife Stadium.. And they lost to Rex with a playoff berth on the line... 0-2

[OpIv37]

Yes you're very likely right... OPIV predicted Indy would beat Buffalo 38-3 and he predicted Miami would beat Buffalo 24-13.. Someone on this site once said they would love it if OPIV was his bookie he would be a millionaire 10x over

And what is this short week and night game **** paranoia against the Jets.. Last year the Bills went into Metlife Stadium on a Thursday night game with 3 days rest and beat the Jets
So one night win overrides all the ****ty night game performances of the past? I'll believe this team can perform in night games the same way they perform in afternoon games when they prove it more than 1x.

And it's amazing how everyone remembers the games I got wrong but forgets about the dozens I've gotten right, despite everyone arguing with me.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised. When all else fails, rely on the BZ mantra of using the exception to prove the rule.

[justasportsfan]

The jets lost to Rex on national TV last year on a Thursday night in Metlife Stadium.. And they lost to Rex with a playoff berth on the line... 0-2

oops! Looks like his arguments are going down the toilet.

He should com up with something else.

[justasportsfan]

So one night win overrides all the ****ty night game performances of the past? I'll believe this team can perform in night games the same way they perform in afternoon games when they prove it more than 1x.
someones getting desperate.
well if crappy performances of the past under a different coaching staff makes your argument, then we're going to 4 straight superbowls.

[OpIv37]

someones getting desperate.
well if crappy performances of the past under a different coaching staff makes your argument, then we're going to 4 straight superbowls.
Lots of the guys who are still here were part of those ****ty night game performances and Red's sample size is too small to draw conclusions. I take the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach. They haven't earned the benefit of the doubt.

[Goobylal]

You conveniently neglected that those losses to the 49ers and Chargers were on consecutive WC road trips, and conveniently threw out the wins over the Ravens to make the teams look worse.

And you don't think the Jets will be motivated to beat their old coach and a div rival in their home opener on national TV?

Also, I'm not sure if being "motivated" is a good thing for a Rex Ryan team. It seems to mean the same thing as "playing on pure adrenaline and taking even more stupid penalties than usual."

The Ravens lost to the Browns at home, then traveled to the 49'ers, stayed there to play the Cards, and came home for the Chargers. Stop with the excuses there. And yeah I threw out the wins over the Ravens to show you how poor those teams were. But fine, if you think 12-36 helps your argument, knock yourself out.

If the Jets didn't have motivation to beat their old coach at home earlier in the season, much less with the playoffs on the line at the end of the season, why would anyone have any faith in them doing it when the season is just starting and both teams are in contention (or not out of contention if you prefer), and the Bills are at home? And the Bills were motivated to beat the Jets last year, and did.

[justasportsfan]

Lots of the guys who are still here were part of those ****ty night game performances and Red's sample size is too small to draw conclusions. I take the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach. They haven't earned the benefit of the doubt.

they already swept the jets. you are not giving the bills the benefit of a doubt but you are giving the team they swept recently the benefit of a doubt? I always knew you got screwed with your college degree. You need to ask for a refund. You're not making sense .

Not taking the bet I see. Thought so

[OpIv37]

The Ravens lost to the Browns at home, then traveled to the 49'ers, stayed there to play the Cards, and came home for the Chargers. Stop with the excuses there. And yeah I threw out the wins over the Ravens to show you how poor those teams were. But fine, if you think 12-36 helps your argument, knock yourself out.

If the Jets didn't have motivation to beat their old coach at home earlier in the season, much less with the playoffs on the line at the end of the season, why would anyone have any faith in them doing it when the season is just starting and both teams are in contention (or not out of contention if you prefer), and the Bills are at home? And the Bills were motivated to beat the Jets last year, and did.

You are under rating the Ravens but I'm not gonna argue the same points over and over. Just wait and see.

And the issue isn't faith in the Jets. I said this is the most likely in the first four games. But it's also the type of game that the Bills tend to lose. On paper they should win but I lack faith in them to not blow it.

- - - Updated - - -


they already swept the jets. you are not giving the bills the benefit of a doubt but you are giving the team they swept recently the benefit of a doubt? I always knew you got screwed with your college degree. You need to ask for a refund. You're not making sense .

Not taking the bet I see. Thought so

You're asking me to bet against the Bills in the only game in the first 4 I think they should win. I'm not going to bet against my own opinion.

[Goobylal]

You are under rating the Ravens but I'm not gonna argue the same points over and over. Just wait and see.
qw
If they suffered a load of injuries in the first half of the season, I'd be more inclined to believe you. But the only player of import they lost early was Suggs. If he alone was enough to derail that team during that first half, it doesn't bode well for them considering he's coming back from a torn achilles and likely will never be the same player again. And what of the Bills' numerous injuries last year? But yes, we'll have to agree to wait and see.

[justasportsfan]

You're asking me to bet against the Bills in the only game in the first 4 I think they should win. I'm not going to bet against my own opinion.

your opinion is that we would be lucky to beat them . Your words , not mine. If you want to admit you were just being dramatical in saying that then just admit it.

[feldspar]

qw
If they suffered a load of injuries in the first half of the season, I'd be more inclined to believe you. But the only player of import they lost early was Suggs. If he alone was enough to derail that team during that first half, it doesn't bode well for them considering he's coming back from a torn achilles and likely will never be the same player again. And what of the Bills' numerous injuries last year? But yes, we'll have to agree to wait and see.

It's amazing to me that some Bills fans want to say that other teams looked bad because of injuries, and in the same breath say that Injuries on the Bills are just an excuse for not being successful.

I call that hypocrisy.

[OpIv37]

It's amazing to me that some Bills fans want to say that other teams looked bad because of injuries, and in the same breath say that Injuries on the Bills are just an excuse for not being successful.

I call that hypocrisy.
Injuries are a huge frustration though.

To be fair, I don't follow other teams enough to really know if our injuries are better or worse than theirs. But it seems like every year, we get killed by injuries. Different players, coaches, training staffs, FO's- but same results. There's no good explanation for it.

But, in terms of the Ravens, they are generally a good team that had a really off year due partially to an uncharacteristic number of injuries. That's not a very good comparison to a team like the Bills that perennially struggles and perennially has injuries.

[Ginger Vitis]

The Bills have beat the Jets in 2 night games 2 straight years 2014 and 2015... November 24 2014 the Bills beat the Jets in Detroit 38-3 on a Monday night

[justasportsfan]

The Bills have beat the Jets in 2 night games 2 straight years 2014 and 2015... November 24 2014 the Bills beat the Jets in Detroit 38-3 on a Monday night

But the jets were coached by Rex in 2014.that doesnt count.

- Opiv

[Ginger Vitis]

The Bills record the last 4 years in night games is 3-3 middle of the road but not epically bad as OPIV seems to think and 3 wins destroys his "one time is the exception" notion

[OpIv37]

The Bills record the last 4 years in night games is 3-3 middle of the road but not epically bad as OPIV seems to think and 3 wins destroys his "one time is the exception" notion
It was epically bad for a long time before that. It hasn't been better than mediocre in forever. Maybe it's starting to even out to be consistent with how the team plays in afternoon games, but again, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Frenchman]

Just hope that he can get back to his job. As you never want to see people like that hurt. God speed Shaq!

[Skooby]

It was epically bad for a long time before that. It hasn't been better than mediocre in forever. Maybe it's starting to even out to be consistent with how the team plays in afternoon games, but again, I'll believe it when I see it.

You said averaging out ?? Are you feeling ok ? Maybe our playoff appearances might as well, right ?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Did I actually say that? Usually I don't make predictions beyond W-L.

You did.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/230550-Week-1-Bills-Vs-Colts-Game-Predictions?p=4128983&viewfull=1#post4128983


Colts 38-3. Reality check coming on strong

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/230679-Bills-vs-Patriots-predictions?p=4132327&viewfull=1#post4132327


35-7 Pats. Chandler has at least 1 TD. Miserable showing from Taylor.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/230813-Week-3-Predictions-Buffalo-Miami?p=4135748&viewfull=1#post4135748


Miami 24-13.

Talent wise we are better than them but the game's in their house and it's going to be hot. The Bills seem to have trouble in early season games in FL. I also think they are still recovering from that ego bruise they got last week and won't be up for the game.

You even go as far as saying we are a better team than Miami, but can't actually convince yourself that we'll win. You always have an excuse as to why we'll lose, whether it be too hot, too cold, too rainy, too dry, too short of a week, too soon in the season, too late in the season, too close to the middle of the season, too close to our bye week, too far from our bye week, west coast game, east coast game, no good on the road, no good at home, trap game, bad matchups, playing against a QB who runs too much, our QB runs too much, hurt egos, too cocky, revenge against our coach, our coach being too vengeful, lack of emotion, too much emotion, lack of discipline, lack of sleep, hangnails, hemorrhoids, or otherwise.

You might predict our season win record to be about 40-50% W/L percentage, but when it comes to individual game predictions I would guess that you're probably closer to 15-25%.

[OpIv37]

You did.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/230550-Week-1-Bills-Vs-Colts-Game-Predictions?p=4128983&viewfull=1#post4128983



http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/230679-Bills-vs-Patriots-predictions?p=4132327&viewfull=1#post4132327



http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/230813-Week-3-Predictions-Buffalo-Miami?p=4135748&viewfull=1#post4135748



You even go as far as saying we are a better team than Miami, but can't actually convince yourself that we'll win. You always have an excuse as to why we'll lose, whether it be too hot, too cold, too rainy, too dry, too short of a week, too soon in the season, too late in the season, too close to the middle of the season, too close to our bye week, too far from our bye week, west coast game, east coast game, no good on the road, no good at home, trap game, bad matchups, playing against a QB who runs too much, our QB runs too much, hurt egos, too cocky, revenge against our coach, our coach being too vengeful, lack of emotion, too much emotion, lack of discipline, lack of sleep, hangnails, hemorrhoids, or otherwise.

You might predict our season win record to be about 40-50% W/L percentage, but when it comes to individual game predictions I would guess that you're probably closer to 15-25%.

Yeah, it's just me having an excuse why we'll lose. It's not like this team ever loses games they should win or anything...

[Joe Fo Sho]

Yeah, it's just me having an excuse why we'll lose. It's not like this team ever loses games they should win or anything...

Is there a team in any sport that can't say that?

I mean, listen to yourself. This is what you said about the Bills playing against a 5-11 team.


For the third time: the Ravens got screwed by injuries and the schedule last year. And it's the opener in their house. It's not going to be a win.

You give the Ravens the benefit of the doubt, and give us no chance? C'mon. No chance?!

This is what you said about a team we went 2-0 against last year who is now without their starting QB from that year. We're also on a 5 game winning streak against them.


Night game on a short week. A home opener loss on national TV to his former team would be crazy embarrassing for Rex. Of the first 4, this is the most likely win, but it's also the kind of game the Bills usually blow.

You're already assuming we're going to blow it, even though it's our most likely win. You won't say it's a likely win, you just say that it's our best shot at a win. Really stepping out on a limb there. My favorite part is how the Jets benefit from having the same short we as we do.


NE is a L even without Brady (especially since our only pass-rushing threat is Hughes and they'll game plan around him). Remember, they beat us 2x without him the year he was hurt.

This is great. We're going to lose to a team with a complete unknown at the most important position in all of team sports because of 1 player on the Bills who won't have a good game and the fact that the Patriots beat us twice 8 years ago. Nice logic.

Maybe we go 1-3, maybe we go 0-4, but the logic behind your predictions and how adamant you are about us losing is laughable.

[Ginger Vitis]

but the logic behind your predictions and how adamant you are about us losing is laughable.

I think he frames some of his thinking and notions and trends from the Jauron and Gailey years... They Bills are 3 full years removed from Gaileys last year... the best example is his perception of the night games holding true to a past trend and not being aware in the last 4 years that trend no longer exists..

[Turf]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/233010-The-Official-2016-NFL-Draft-thread-Round-1?p=4202915&highlight=#post4202915

In regards to the topic, this being a bad 1st round pick IMO from day one. As usual, the Bills are always "smarter" than everyone else. Whaley should be fired. Even the freaking announcers knew this guy needed surgery.

[justasportsfan]

The Bills record the last 4 years in night games is 3-3 middle of the road but not epically bad as OPIV seems to think and 3 wins destroys his "one time is the exception" notion

Op thinks everything bad (ONLY) that happened under a different coaching staff in the past applies to today's team. However , everything GOOD that happened under a different coaching staff does not. Stupid logic.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I think he frames some of his thinking and notions and trends from the Jauron and Gailey years... They Bills are 3 full years removed from Gaileys last year... the best example is his perception of the night games holding true to a past trend and not being aware in the last 4 years that trend no longer exists..

You're probably right. He did say that we won't win against the Pats week 4 of the 2016 season because of what happened in 2008.

[OpIv37]

Is there a team in any sport that can't say that?

I mean, listen to yourself. This is what you said about the Bills playing against a 5-11 team.



You give the Ravens the benefit of the doubt, and give us no chance? C'mon. No chance?!

This is what you said about a team we went 2-0 against last year who is now without their starting QB from that year. We're also on a 5 game winning streak against them.



You're already assuming we're going to blow it, even though it's our most likely win. You won't say it's a likely win, you just say that it's our best shot at a win. Really stepping out on a limb there. My favorite part is how the Jets benefit from having the same short we as we do.



This is great. We're going to lose to a team with a complete unknown at the most important position in all of team sports because of 1 player on the Bills who won't have a good game and the fact that the Patriots beat us twice 8 years ago. Nice logic.

Maybe we go 1-3, maybe we go 0-4, but the logic behind your predictions and how adamant you are about us losing is laughable.

I don't have time to address this now but that is not an accurate description of my logic at all.

[Ginger Vitis]

I wanted Ragland @19 and Nkemdiche in the 2nd but Nkemdiche was gone before the 2nd round started... You would think a coach on the hot seat would want his 1st round pick to be ready to play from the get go

[Joe Fo Sho]

I don't have time to address this now but that is not an accurate description of my logic at all.

Did I misquote you? Sometimes my copy and paste function changes the statement entirely.

[OpIv37]

Is there a team in any sport that can't say that?

I mean, listen to yourself. This is what you said about the Bills playing against a 5-11 team.



You give the Ravens the benefit of the doubt, and give us no chance? C'mon. No chance?!

I give the Ravens the benefit of the doubt because THEY'VE EARNED IT. They are a team that usually does very well but had a down year. That's the complete opposite of the Bills.



This is what you said about a team we went 2-0 against last year who is now without their starting QB from that year. We're also on a 5 game winning streak against them.



You're already assuming we're going to blow it, even though it's our most likely win. You won't say it's a likely win, you just say that it's our best shot at a win. Really stepping out on a limb there. My favorite part is how the Jets benefit from having the same short we as we do.

So wait, did I assume we are going to blow it, or did I say it's our best shot at a win? You're contradicting yourself there.

And if you read this full thread, you'll see I DID say it's our most likely win, in posts 41 and 53. And no, I didn't commit to saying we will win this game. They've proven time and time again that they can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm never confident that this team is going to win, no matter how bad the opponent. That won't change until they prove they can win consistently.




This is great. We're going to lose to a team with a complete unknown at the most important position in all of team sports because of 1 player on the Bills who won't have a good game and the fact that the Patriots beat us twice 8 years ago. Nice logic.

Maybe we go 1-3, maybe we go 0-4, but the logic behind your predictions and how adamant you are about us losing is laughable.
That is a gross oversimplification of what I said. The best chance to win that game is to get after that "complete unknown," but with only one real pass rush threat, we won't be able to do that. And it's not just one player having a bad game. Their talent level is still well above ours.

Remember, Cassel was a "complete unknown" the year Brady was hurt and he beat us twice. The Patriots have beat us time and time again with a litany of injuries. They've beaten us with 3rd string RB's and WR's playing DB. No matter what the situation is, Bellicheck figures this team out (or cheats, or both).

I find it laughable that people still think we are going to beat a team that has absolutely owned us for the last 16 years or so. Seriously, you're harping on how we beat the Jets 5x in a row but you seem to forget we've only beaten NE 3x since 2003 and one of those was a game where they were resting starters.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I give the Ravens the benefit of the doubt because THEY'VE EARNED IT. They are a team that usually does very well but had a down year. That's the complete opposite of the Bills.

The Ravens have averaged less than 8 wins per season over the last 3 years. The 2016 Ravens have earned nothing.


So wait, did I assume we are going to blow it, or did I say it's our best shot at a win? You're contradicting yourself there.

You said both, like I said.


And if you read this full thread, you'll see I DID say it's our most likely win, in posts 41 and 53.

I know, that's what I said you said.

I also said that there's a difference between saying the Bills will 'likely win' and the Bills have their 'most likely win.' It means nothing. We can play NE 3 times and the Cardinals once. The Cards are the most likely win, but that doesn't mean they are a likely win.


And no, I didn't commit to saying we will win this game.

I know, you're being wishy washy about that game.


That is a gross oversimplification of what I said. The best chance to win that game is to get after that "complete unknown," but with only one real pass rush threat, we won't be able to do that. And it's not just one player having a bad game. Their talent level is still well above ours.

That's debatable at least, without Brady.


Remember, Cassel was a "complete unknown" the year Brady was hurt and he beat us twice.

Yeah, 1 year removed from having probably the best team in NFL history. Their team is different and our team is different, it means nothing.


The Patriots have beat us time and time again with a litany of injuries. They've beaten us with 3rd string RB's and WR's playing DB. No matter what the situation is, Bellicheck figures this team out (or cheats, or both).

Sure.


I find it laughable that people still think we are going to beat a team that has absolutely owned us for the last 16 years or so.

I don't think the Bills will beat New England this year. I'm at least going to give them a chance, though. My predictions are not far off from yours, you just don't seem to think the Bills have a chance in hell of winning most of their first 4 games. Just the same as last year, when your predictions weren't even close.


Seriously, you're harping on how we beat the Jets 5x in a row but you seem to forget we've only beaten NE 3x since 2003 and one of those was a game where they were resting starters.

I guess you could consider me stating a single sentence about it as 'harping.'

[trapezeus]

another thread hijacked by people arguing with OP.

[justasportsfan]

another thread hijacked by people arguing with OP.

If we didn't argue, the thread would've been dead long time ago.

[stuckincincy]

If we didn't argue, the thread would've been dead long time ago.

Quite correct. This site is where we release some of our jerkiness...which is a benefit to those around us in the real world. Much better to stomp our feet and whine here than on something like Facebook.

A catharsis, I would say. :java:

[justasportsfan]

Quite correct. This site is where we release all our jerkiness...to the betterment of those around us.

I can't remember a more quite offseason than we have this year here on BZ. It's like hardly anyone talks football anymore. :idunno:

[ICRockets]

I can't remember a more quite offseason than we have this year here on BZ. It's like hardly anyone talks football anymore. :idunno:

It's a combination of it being an election year and the fact that literally none of us like Rex Ryan.

[Goobylal]

That's debatable at least, without Brady.

It's not debatable: it's totally wrong. The only place, besides QB, where they're better is TE's and LB's. But QB is the most important position by far and you can't just take a HOF and replace him with a scrub and think things will be the same. There's a reason why offensive players who leave the Cheaters never do much elsewhere.

[swiper]

I can't remember a more quite offseason than we have this year here on BZ. It's like hardly anyone talks football anymore. :idunno:

Did you mean "quiet?" Spelling has never been all that important to Republicans. Like taking care of their neighbors in need.

[OpIv37]

It's not debatable: it's totally wrong. The only place, besides QB, where they're better is TE's and LB's. But QB is the most important position by far and you can't just take a HOF and replace him with a scrub and think things will be the same. There's a reason why offensive players who leave the Cheaters never do much elsewhere.
They're only more talented at two positions but they're perennial contenders while we struggle to break .500? Please.

Oh, and the last time they replaced a HOF QB with a scrub, they went 11-5 and only missed the playoffs on tiebreakers. And that was a full season. This is only 4 games.

[ICRockets]

They're only more talented at two positions but they're perennial contenders while we struggle to break .500? Please.

Oh, and the last time they replaced a HOF QB with a scrub, they went 11-5 and only missed the playoffs on tiebreakers. And that was a full season. This is only 4 games.

So the exception that proves the rule is actually just the rule?

[Goobylal]

They're only more talented at two positions but they're perennial contenders while we struggle to break .500? Please.

Oh, and the last time they replaced a HOF QB with a scrub, they went 11-5 and only missed the playoffs on tiebreakers. And that was a full season. This is only 4 games.

Yeah, it's called having Brady. Belichick was a sub-.500 coach with the Browns and the year after he took over an 8-8 Cheaters team. Having a prolific offense that not only score points but keeps the defense off the field is a huge advantage.

As for that 2008 season, they also had a team that had the greatest offense of all time that returned entirely intact, the 4th ranked defense in yards and points, and who went 18-1 the year before, barely losing the SB thanks to a miraculous catch. But they still missed the playoffs didn't they? Think they make the playoffs and go deep in them if Brady had played? This current team is nowhere near that one.

[OpIv37]

So the exception that proves the rule is actually just the rule?

The rule is that NE still plays well when starters aren't available. They've done it time and time again. Granted, they've only had to go without Brady for an extended period once since he became the starter, but they're one for one.

[OpIv37]

Yeah, it's called having Brady. Belichick was a sub-.500 coach with the Browns and the year after he took over an 8-8 Cheaters team. Having a prolific offense that not only score points but keeps the defense off the field is a huge advantage.

As for that 2008 season, they also had a team that had the greatest offense of all time that returned entirely intact, the 4th ranked defense in yards and points, and who went 18-1 the year before, barely losing the SB thanks to a miraculous catch. But they still missed the playoffs didn't they? Think they make the playoffs and go deep in them if Brady had played? This current team is nowhere near that one.

Every year. Every damn year. "this NE team isn't as good as their past teams." Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

[Goobylal]

Every year. Every damn year. "this NE team isn't as good as their past teams." Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

Show me where I've said that once. As long as they have Brady and Belichick, they are good enough to beat the Bills consistently. Just like how the SB era Bills beat their division opponents consistently.

[OpIv37]

Show me where I've said that once. As long as they have Brady and Belichick, they are good enough to beat the Bills consistently. Just like how the SB era Bills beat their division opponents consistently.
They were good enough to get 11 wins without Brady.

[feldspar]

They were good enough to get 11 wins without Brady.

The Patriots have exactly TWO players left from that 2008 team, and they are both Special Teams players...not including Brady, of course. I don't know how many coaches remain, but probably not too many.

Today's Patriots roster isn't nearly as good as it was back then. That 2007 team was probably the best one I've ever seen, or close enough to it. That carried over into 2008 when Brady got hurt.Saying the Patriots beat us without Brady in 2008 means nothing in relation to this year's matchup. Why totally ignore the fact that the Bills beat the Pats with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB recently? It means just as much.

I don't think that anyone in their right mind is going to say that anyone in the AFC East has gained ground on the Pats at this point, even with Brady missing four games. They are still odds-on favorites to win the Super Bowl. But I think the Bills have a fair shot of beating them in week 4 without Brady. That's about as far as I'd go with that. Wish that game was to take place in Buffalo...

[Goobylal]

The Patriots have exactly TWO players left from that 2008 team, and they are both Special Teams players...not including Brady, of course. I don't know how many coaches remain, but probably not too many.

Today's Patriots roster isn't nearly as good as it was back then. That 2007 team was probably the best one I've ever seen, or close enough to it. That carried over into 2008 when Brady got hurt.Saying the Patriots beat us without Brady in 2008 means nothing in relation to this year's matchup. Why totally ignore the fact that the Bills beat the Pats with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB recently? It means just as much.

I don't think that anyone in their right mind is going to say that anyone in the AFC East has gained ground on the Pats at this point, even with Brady missing four games. They are still odds-on favorites to win the Super Bowl. But I think the Bills have a fair shot of beating them in week 4 without Brady. That's about as far as I'd go with that. Wish that game was to take place in Buffalo...

Great point. And Brady played the first half of that game. And that team was a lot more talented than the one the Cheaters have now.

[OpIv37]

I'm ignoring that fact because it's tainted. It was more than just Brady who was resting and the Patriots were more concerned with being healthy for their playoff game while the Bills were desperate to get their first ever win in Foxboro. That game meant everything to the Bills and nothing to the Patriots. It's not even remotely comparable to a game where both teams need a W equally.

[Goobylal]

You can make any excuse you want but that's what happened the last time the Bills faced the Cheaters without Brady, for a half.

[feldspar]

I'm ignoring that fact because it's tainted. It was more than just Brady who was resting and the Patriots were more concerned with being healthy for their playoff game while the Bills were desperate to get their first ever win in Foxboro. That game meant everything to the Bills and nothing to the Patriots. It's not even remotely comparable to a game where both teams need a W equally.

So why not also ignore that the Patriots beat the Bills in 2008, since only the kicker and gunner on Special teams remain from that squad?

This is my point.

How does that even remotely compare to this year's matchup? The Titans had the best record in the NFL in 2008, so I guess everyone has to watch their sweet ass about them this year too, right?

[OpIv37]

So why not also ignore that the Patriots beat the Bills in 2008, since only the kicker and gunner on Special teams remain from that squad?

This is my point.

How does that even remotely compare to this year's matchup? The Titans had the best record in the NFL in 2008, so I guess everyone has to watch their sweet ass about them this year too, right?

Because the Patriots have demonstrated the ability to overcome injuries time and time again. When they need a win, they get one far more often than not, regardless of who's not playing.

[stuckincincy]

Because the Patriots have demonstrated the ability to overcome injuries time and time again. When they need a win, they get one far more often than not, regardless of who's not playing.

Absolute fact.

In the 16 years of the Belichick NE regime, they have suffered only one losing season - his first, back in 2000.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/

[feldspar]

Because the Patriots have demonstrated the ability to overcome injuries time and time again. When they need a win, they get one far more often than not, regardless of who's not playing.

That's because they have Tom Brady.

Don't bring up 2008 again unless you want to finally address my post (#90) in this thread. Don't make me repeat myself.

Belichick is not a wizard. A great coach, but not a wizard. Do you you think that he can turn ANY NFL roster into a winner? He's never made the playoffs without Brady.

[OpIv37]

That's because they have Tom Brady.

Don't bring up 2008 again unless you want to finally address my post (#90) in this thread. Don't make me repeat myself.

Belichick is not a wizard. A great coach, but not a wizard. Do you you think that he can turn ANY NFL roster into a winner? He's never made the playoffs without Brady.
Before Bellicheck, Brady was nothing. He was a 6th round draft pick who spent most of his college days riding the pine behind Drew ****ing Henson. So, I wouldn't say he can get any NFL roster into the playoffs. But he sure as hell can make a good run with his current roster minus Brady for 4 games.

[Goobylal]

So why not also ignore that the Patriots beat the Bills in 2008, since only the kicker and gunner on Special teams remain from that squad?

This is my point.

How does that even remotely compare to this year's matchup? The Titans had the best record in the NFL in 2008, so I guess everyone has to watch their sweet ass about them this year too, right?

Good point. ,I'm amazed the Bills actually beat them last year!


Before Bellicheck, Brady was nothing. He was a 6th round draft pick who spent most of his college days riding the pine behind Drew ****ing Henson. So, I wouldn't say he can get any NFL roster into the playoffs. But he sure as hell can make a good run with his current roster minus Brady for 4 games.

Before Brady, Belichick, who was a SB-winning DC, was a sub-.500 head coach who couldn't even get the Cheaters to .500 the year he took over, when they were 8-8 the year before, and that was with a former 1st round QB in Drew Bledsoe. They even started the 2001 season 0-2 before Brady took over thanks to Bledsoe almost dying on the field, whereas before he was an ironman. Needless to say, they got uber lucky with Brady and haven't been able to draft/develop anyone close to him, or even anyone good (Cassel eked out a few good seasons). Garooolopppoollo hasn't looked too good to date, even though he was a 2nd rounder (drafted much higher than Brady was so that means he should turn out better, right?), so you can't even reasonably say that he'll be anywhere as good as Cassel was with a loaded offense in 2008, until proven otherwise.

[justasportsfan]

Did you mean "quiet?" Spelling has never been all that important to Republicans. Like taking care of their neighbors in need.

Yes I meant quiet. Phone does thatball the time and Im too lazy to proof read my posts. And I wouldnt know that because Im not a republican.

[feldspar]

Before Bellicheck, Brady was nothing. He was a 6th round draft pick who spent most of his college days riding the pine behind Drew ****ing Henson.

That's right, and Brady probably would have been riding the pine behind a different Drew in New England had Bledsoe not gotten hurt in the 2nd game in 2001. Drew Bledsoe had just signed the biggest contract in NFL history that very offseason, so it's not like some mastermind recognized Brady's potential, or anyone had a sliver of intention to start him anytime soon. Belichick lucked into Brady in other words. I didn't see any magic wand.

How did Belichick do with his first round QB picks in his five years in Cleveland, or with Bledsoe?

If you have a point, you should make it. Do you think that Belichick magically created Brady on his own or something? remember tat Belichick is historically a DEFENSIVE coach.


So, I wouldn't say he can get any NFL roster into the playoffs. But he sure as hell can make a good run with his current roster minus Brady for 4 games.

I agree, and have said as much already. Most people agree with that.

[YardRat]

If the NFL actually gave a **** about the integrity of the game this century, we wouldn't be having this conversation about Brady, Belichek and the Patriots.

[Goobylal]

That's right, and Brady probably would have been riding the pine behind a different Drew in New England had Bledsoe not gotten hurt in the 2nd game in 2001. Drew Bledsoe had just signed the biggest contract in NFL history that very offseason, so it's not like some mastermind recognized Brady's potential, or anyone had a sliver of intention to start him anytime soon. Belichick lucked into Brady in other words. I didn't see any magic wand.

How did Belichick do with his first round QB picks in his five years in Cleveland, or with Bledsoe?

If you have a point, you should make it. Do you think that Belichick magically created Brady on his own or something? remember tat Belichick is historically a DEFENSIVE coach.

Belicheat had nothing to do with Brady. He didn't draft him, he didn't develop him, and like you said, it took an injury to Bledsoe to get him into the lineup.

Speaking of which, Brady must have sold his soul to the devil. Bledsoe had only missed 2 games until then and probably would have been back starting if he had just missed a few games. But great point about them giving Bledsoe a huge contract before that season because they had no idea what they had in Brady.

Lastly I'll reiterate that you can't claim that just because Matt Cassel took the team to 11-5 in 2008, that Jimmy Garrroopppoolllo can do it. Cassel actually made a Pro Bowl after that. Garroopppoollloo is a nobody until proven otherwise.

[sahlensguy]

Belicheat had nothing to do with Brady. He didn't draft him, he didn't develop him, and like you said, it took an injury to Bledsoe to get him into the lineup.

Speaking of which, Brady must have sold his soul to the devil. Bledsoe had only missed 2 games until then and probably would have been back starting if he had just missed a few games. But great point about them giving Bledsoe a huge contract before that season because they had no idea what they had in Brady.

Lastly I'll reiterate that you can't claim that just because Matt Cassel took the team to 11-5 in 2008, that Jimmy Garrroopppoolllo can do it. Cassel actually made a Pro Bowl after that. Garroopppoollloo is a nobody until proven otherwise.

He did find a roster spot as a rookie for Brady though, as the 4th string qb. That's not nothing!

[OpIv37]

Belicheat had nothing to do with Brady. He didn't draft him, he didn't develop him, and like you said, it took an injury to Bledsoe to get him into the lineup.

Speaking of which, Brady must have sold his soul to the devil. Bledsoe had only missed 2 games until then and probably would have been back starting if he had just missed a few games. But great point about them giving Bledsoe a huge contract before that season because they had no idea what they had in Brady.

Lastly I'll reiterate that you can't claim that just because Matt Cassel took the team to 11-5 in 2008, that Jimmy Garrroopppoolllo can do it. Cassel actually made a Pro Bowl after that. Garroopppoollloo is a nobody until proven otherwise.
In '08, Matt Cassel was a nobody until proven otherwise.

Since he's been with the Patriots, Bellicheck has had to work with unknown QB's twice: Brady and Cassel. We all know the results.

And you keep saying this year's Patriots aren't like '08, but then you bring up Bellicheck's record with the Browns. The Patriots are one of the best-run orgs in the league and the Browns are one of the worst. The Patriots aren't like the Browns. So take your pick- either past performance means something or it doesn't. You can't pick and choose when it counts.

[feldspar]

In '08, Matt Cassel was a nobody until proven otherwise.

Since he's been with the Patriots, Bellicheck has had to work with unknown QB's twice: Brady and Cassel. We all know the results.

Have you listened to a word I've said?


And you keep saying this year's Patriots aren't like '08, but then you bring up Bellicheck's record with the Browns. The Patriots are one of the best-run orgs in the league and the Browns are one of the worst. The Patriots aren't like the Browns. So take your pick- either past performance means something or it doesn't. You can't pick and choose when it counts.

Apparently, you don't even know what you are talking about.

The Cleveland Browns that Belichick coached are actually now the Baltimore Ravens franchise. Those Browns relocated to Baltimore in 1996, remember? You should ****ing know that at least, since you tell us you actually live in Baltimore. The horrible Browns team you are referring to is the expansion team that started in 1999, and Belichick never had any part in that franchise. It's completely different.

Prior to Belichick being coach of the Browns, that franchise had made the playoffs 7 of the past 11 seasons...and they won their division 5 of those times. Then Belichick took over, and the Browns made the playoffs ONCE in five years. Would you say that's a significant downgrade? I think I would. Then the Browns moved to Baltimore. Then Cleveland got a brand new team after about three seasons without one. That expansion team is not the same organization Belichick coached.

Get it?

[Goobylal]

He did find a roster spot as a rookie for Brady though, as the 4th string qb. That's not nothing!

Big deal. He could have put him on the PS. No one would have taken him.


In '08, Matt Cassel was a nobody until proven otherwise.

Since he's been with the Patriots, Bellicheck has had to work with unknown QB's twice: Brady and Cassel. We all know the results.

And you keep saying this year's Patriots aren't like '08, but then you bring up Bellicheck's record with the Browns. The Patriots are one of the best-run orgs in the league and the Browns are one of the worst. The Patriots aren't like the Browns. So take your pick- either past performance means something or it doesn't. You can't pick and choose when it counts.

So what if Cassel was unproven in 2008? He proved it. Garrooppoollo has proven nothing. Just because 2 QB's out of a dozen they've drafted/groomed panned-out (Cassel briefly), it doesn't mean Garrooopppooolllo will. Actually the odds are against him succeeding. And I'm using your logic here because if this were a Bills player, you'd be saying the same thing.

[OpIv37]

Big deal. He could have put him on the PS. No one would have taken him.



So what if Cassel was unproven in 2008? He proved it. Garrooppoollo has proven nothing. Just because 2 QB's out of a dozen they've drafted/groomed panned-out (Cassel briefly), it doesn't mean Garrooopppooolllo will. Actually the odds are against him succeeding. And I'm using your logic here because if this were a Bills player, you'd be saying the same thing.

Um no. You don't get to make up a hypothetical scenario that has never actually happened then make an argument based on your guess at what my reaction would have been. That's pure nonsense.

The odds were against Brady and Cassel too, but Bellicheck is still 2 for 2 on them.

[Goobylal]

Um no. You don't get to make up a hypothetical scenario that has never actually happened then make an argument based on your guess at what my reaction would have been. That's pure nonsense.

It's not a guess. If I did a poll, there would be just 1 vote for "he wouldn't say the same thing" and that would be from you.


The odds were against Brady and Cassel too, but Bellicheck is still 2 for 2 on them.

That's not how odds work. When you're 2 for 14 in drafting QB's, the odds are against you. Again Garroopppooollo is a scrub until proven otherwise.

[OpIv37]

It's not a guess. If I did a poll, there would be just 1 vote for "he wouldn't say the same thing" and that would be from you.



That's not how odds work. When you're 2 for 14 in drafting QB's, the odds are against you. Again Garroopppooollo is a scrub until proven otherwise.

Polls and votes mean nothing. You assumed how I would react in a situation that's never occurred. You're trying to make it about me when it isn't.

And nothing you can say changes the reality that both Cassel and Brady were scrubs until Bellicheck got a hold of them. And seriously- you're a Bills fan complaining about another team being bad at drafting QB's? Ouch.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Op - I don't think I've ever wanted to argue with someone who I agree with so much.

My prediction for this season is 6-10. You'd think that would make me agree with your take on most things, but the fact that you give the Bills so little credit and such a small chance of seeing any success in the future just makes it so easy for me to want to argue with you.

[Goobylal]

Polls and votes mean nothing. You assumed how I would react in a situation that's never occurred. You're trying to make it about me when it isn't.

And nothing you can say changes the reality that both Cassel and Brady were scrubs until Bellicheck got a hold of them. And seriously- you're a Bills fan complaining about another team being bad at drafting QB's? Ouch.

The reality is the Cheaters fail with most of their QB draft picks. They've actually only hit on late rounders, which Garrroooppooolllo isn't. Meaning it's purely luck with them because if they had any inkling they'd be good, they'd have taken them much earlier to not risk losing them. So again, Garroopppoollloo has everything to prove before you can say he's even as good as Cassel, much less a HOF'er like Brady. This is common sense.

As for the Bills, I've said they've been bad at drafting QB's. I'm still waiting for them to hit on a late rounder like the Cheaters have, but hopefully TT is the man.

[OpIv37]

The reality is the Cheaters fail with most of their QB draft picks. They've actually only hit on late rounders, which Garrroooppooolllo isn't. Meaning it's purely luck with them because if they had any inkling they'd be good, they'd have taken them much earlier to not risk losing them. So again, Garroopppoollloo has everything to prove before you can say he's even as good as Cassel, much less a HOF'er like Brady. This is common sense.

As for the Bills, I've said they've been bad at drafting QB's. I'm still waiting for them to hit on a late rounder like the Cheaters have, but hopefully TT is the man.
How would you even know if they fail with most of their picks? Since Brady took over, the only one they needed was Cassel and he got them 11 wins in a season.

The Patriots have proven time and time again that they can play well when starters are unavailable, even when they need to use WR's as DB's. Since Bledsoe went down, they've had to rely on two no-name QBs. They did well with one and built a dynasty with the other. Maybe they got lucky, but their success suggests they are the first time in the FA era that is "plug and play" at any position, even at QB (and even if it's only because they are so good at cheating).

But I'm so tired of people on this board trying to write off the Pats only to see them be one of the best teams in the leave year in and year out.

The lack of Brady for 4 games is just more false hope.

[OpIv37]

Op - I don't think I've ever wanted to argue with someone who I agree with so much.

My prediction for this season is 6-10. You'd think that would make me agree with your take on most things, but the fact that you give the Bills so little credit and such a small chance of seeing any success in the future just makes it so easy for me to want to argue with you.
What prospects do you see for success? Brandon has created an organizational culture where the bottom line is valued over winning football games. Whaley was 2nd in command for all the failed Nix teams. Pegula made the same mistake he did with the Sabres and spent up to the cap the second he took over. Yes, I complained about Ralph's cheapness, but I've always maintained that throwing money at the problem won't solve it. The spending needs to be wise, and so far, it hasn't been.

It's all SSDD.

[justasportsfan]

You said both, like I said.




OP loves arguing that he argues with himself.

[chernobylwraiths]

I'm not reading all of this, so forgive me if it was brought up. But I see the Cassel talk about how he took the Patriots to 11-5 the year Brady got hurt. Cassel took the Patriots to not making the playoffs (though it was 11-5) the year after the Patriots made a historic run at the record books and came pretty close to having a perfect season. So, I think that might have been a pretty good team.

[Goobylal]

How would you even know if they fail with most of their picks? Since Brady took over, the only one they needed was Cassel and he got them 11 wins in a season.

The Patriots have proven time and time again that they can play well when starters are unavailable, even when they need to use WR's as DB's. Since Bledsoe went down, they've had to rely on two no-name QBs. They did well with one and built a dynasty with the other. Maybe they got lucky, but their success suggests they are the first time in the FA era that is "plug and play" at any position, even at QB (and even if it's only because they are so good at cheating).

But I'm so tired of people on this board trying to write off the Pats only to see them be one of the best teams in the leave year in and year out.

The lack of Brady for 4 games is just more false hope.

How would I know? Because they eventually leave and don't do anything in the league. That's how.

And keep thinking they can easily replace Brady. The truth is they can't.

[OpIv37]

How would I know? Because they eventually leave and don't do anything in the league. That's how.

And keep thinking they can easily replace Brady. The truth is they can't.

Well, first of all, there's no control sample for Brady. If he had left and didn't have Bellicheck, he might have been just as bad as those other guys. There is no way to know for sure.

And second, you keep saying they can't replace Brady, but they've only had to do it once and they won 11 games and only missed the playoffs on tiebreakers. Bellicheck is 2 for 2 with no-name QB's in NE.

[Goobylal]

Well, first of all, there's no control sample for Brady. If he had left and didn't have Bellicheck, he might have been just as bad as those other guys. There is no way to know for sure.

And second, you keep saying they can't replace Brady, but they've only had to do it once and they won 11 games and only missed the playoffs on tiebreakers. Bellicheck is 2 for 2 with no-name QB's in NE.

True there's no way to know how Brady would have turned out if he had played for another team. But that's not what happened. He played for Belichick and proved himself. Cassel played well given the Ferrari he was handed the keys to and got a huge deal from KC, and flamed out in a couple years. That's still more than Garroopppoolllo has proven, which is nothing. And given he's a "name," that means he's going to fail, according to your "logic." But make no mistake, Belichick had ZERO to do with their development. He's a defensive coach, not a QB coach.

And the bottom line with Cassel is the Cheaters missed the playoffs that year. I don't care about the record since the AFCE played a weak schedule. If they had had Brady, they'd have gone deep in the playoffs, probably returned to the SB, and maybe won it. We'll never know, but what we do know is that with Cassel, they didn't even make the playoffs. And they have a far less talented team now.

[Joe Fo Sho]

OP loves arguing that he argues with himself.

I argue with myself all the time, too. It's great, you always win.

[Joe Fo Sho]

What prospects do you see for success? Brandon has created an organizational culture where the bottom line is valued over winning football games. Whaley was 2nd in command for all the failed Nix teams. Pegula made the same mistake he did with the Sabres and spent up to the cap the second he took over. Yes, I complained about Ralph's cheapness, but I've always maintained that throwing money at the problem won't solve it. The spending needs to be wise, and so far, it hasn't been.

It's all SSDD.

You don't see any prospects for success?

Dareus, Hughes, Williams, Gilmore, Darby, Watkins, McCoy, Glenn, Incognito, O-Line continuity (although still probably mediocre as a unit), Tyrod(???)...I view these as positives. I also believe that every fanbase in the NFL thinks their O-Line is bad and needs improvement. That's just the nature of the unit. They could have the number 1 running game in the NFL, but if they allow a few sacks per game...they're crap. I get it.

There's also a distinct difference between the current owner and the previous. Do you think Dareus, Glenn, Incognito, or Hughes would be on this team if Ralph was still around? I don't. To me, that's at least a sign that we're moving in the right direction. Did he hire the wrong coach? Probably. Should he cut his losses and lose 60% of his $28MM contract after this year if we miss the playoffs? I don't think so, personally.

So sure, I don't have much hope for this season. Like I said, I predict 6 wins. That said, I wouldn't call it a miracle if we win 9 games. I also can see where the team has positives and, unlike some, I'm willing to state them instead of just complain about spending too much money on a running back or having a blowhard for a coach. I'm going to enjoy watching McCoy juke defenders out of their shoes and laugh when Rex talks smack to New England. I just don't see much point in complaining so much about something I have no control over, especially when it's about a game that I enjoy watching so much.

[justasportsfan]

I argue with myself all the time, too. It's great, you always win.

you always lose too.

[Joe Fo Sho]

you always lose too.

Maybe with that attitude you do.

[justasportsfan]

Maybe with that attitude you do.
no, I was thinking about OP when I posted that :D

[Joe Fo Sho]

no, I was thinking about OP when I posted that :D

I was just joking around anyway.

[OpIv37]

You don't see any prospects for success?

Dareus, Hughes, Williams, Gilmore, Darby, Watkins, McCoy, Glenn, Incognito, O-Line continuity (although still probably mediocre as a unit), Tyrod(???)...I view these as positives. I also believe that every fanbase in the NFL thinks their O-Line is bad and needs improvement. That's just the nature of the unit. They could have the number 1 running game in the NFL, but if they allow a few sacks per game...they're crap. I get it.

There's also a distinct difference between the current owner and the previous. Do you think Dareus, Glenn, Incognito, or Hughes would be on this team if Ralph was still around? I don't. To me, that's at least a sign that we're moving in the right direction. Did he hire the wrong coach? Probably. Should he cut his losses and lose 60% of his $28MM contract after this year if we miss the playoffs? I don't think so, personally.

So sure, I don't have much hope for this season. Like I said, I predict 6 wins. That said, I wouldn't call it a miracle if we win 9 games. I also can see where the team has positives and, unlike some, I'm willing to state them instead of just complain about spending too much money on a running back or having a blowhard for a coach. I'm going to enjoy watching McCoy juke defenders out of their shoes and laugh when Rex talks smack to New England. I just don't see much point in complaining so much about something I have no control over, especially when it's about a game that I enjoy watching so much.

Well first of all, it's not just "complaining." Sure, some of it is just venting frustration with a team that's been terrible for a long time. But most of it is the simple reality of discussing a bad team- there is only so much real positive stuff that can be said before either moving into fantasy land or turning to the negative to stay in the real world. It doesn't make a lot of sense to think a team is going to get 6 wins then talk about all the positives.

And here's the thing: it's not that I don't see any positives. Sure, some players will turn in good performances be fun to watch. But that's been true through all these awful seasons. There were always a few bright spots. Hell, even some of the really bad teams had smashing defenses and S/T that just smothered our opponents. You and I agree that this team is looking at 6 wins. If that happens, it won't be these positives that define this team. It'll be the negatives.

Furthermore, you said "prospects for success." I don't see any way a Rex Ryan coached team succeeds. I don't see any way this team succeeds long term with Russ Brandon and the old guard in place. Yeah, we have a new owner and some guys are here that most likely wouldn't have been under Ralph, but they also haven't faired much better on the field. And keeping them here basically had us in cap jail this year. Granted, it looks like the cap will open up next year and that will help, but all that spending basically said "2016 is 2015 because we can't afford any changes."

Then they drafted Lawson when he had known injuries- and under some circumstances, missing a few games or even a year wouldn't be a huge deal. But he was by far the biggest addition to a struggling D. So, the FO put us in a cap situation where we couldn't fix the D via FA then doubled down on it by drafting a guy with a known injury in the first round.

Decisions like that are why I don't see prospects for success. And again- that doesn't mean individual players won't have great seasons. Hell, if everyone stays healthy and Tyrod takes a step forward, the O as a whole may even be very good. I just don't see any playoffs or consistent winning anytime soon. The talent isn't there yet and the FO keeps making head-scratching decisions.

[Ginger Vitis]

I don't see any way a Rex Ryan coached team succeeds.



11-5 and a berth in the 2010 AFC championship game

[OpIv37]

11-5 and a berth in the 2010 AFC championship game

He's 2 for 7 in terms of making the playoffs as a HC, and 0 for his last 5. While that's a lot better than what the Bills have been doing, it's not exactly what I would call "success."

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well first of all, it's not just "complaining."

It is when you repeat yourself over and over and over.


Sure, some of it is just venting frustration with a team that's been terrible for a long time. But most of it is the simple reality of discussing a bad team- there is only so much real positive stuff that can be said before either moving into fantasy land or turning to the negative to stay in the real world. It doesn't make a lot of sense to think a team is going to get 6 wins then talk about all the positives.

Why doesn't that make sense? If you think your team will only win 6 games, you're not allowed to talk about the aspects of the team that you like or that give you hope for the future? Are you allowed to talk about the negatives if you expect a team to win 11 games?


And here's the thing: it's not that I don't see any positives. Sure, some players will turn in good performances be fun to watch. But that's been true through all these awful seasons. There were always a few bright spots. Hell, even some of the really bad teams had smashing defenses and S/T that just smothered our opponents. You and I agree that this team is looking at 6 wins. If that happens, it won't be these positives that define this team. It'll be the negatives.

That doesn't mean that we can't talk about or even be excited about the positives. It also doesn't mean that you have to argue with everyone who thinks the Bills will turn it around.


I don't see any way a Rex Ryan coached team succeeds.

Here's one of your typical statements that is just BEGGING to be argued with. Then when someone inevitably argues with you, you pretend like everyone is just out to get you and claim that you didn't derail the thread. This is the reason this happens to you all of the time.

The fact is, a Rex Ryan coached team has succeeded. You can't even argue it, back to back AFC championship games is a success. That statement is ridiculous.


I don't see any way this team succeeds long term with Russ Brandon and the old guard in place.

Again, you see no possible way the Bills succeed with Brandon on the payroll? ZERO chance?

I bet you can't even tell me what Brandon's job entails. No one has been able to tell me that whenever I've asked. They just make a joke about how he's ruining the team and blah blah blah.


Yeah, we have a new owner and some guys are here that most likely wouldn't have been under Ralph, but they also haven't faired much better on the field. And keeping them here basically had us in cap jail this year. Granted, it looks like the cap will open up next year and that will help, but all that spending basically said "2016 is 2015 because we can't afford any changes."

Maybe. Although I'm willing to examine a larger sample size than 1 year before I make a judgement about a guy who is trying to right the ship that been headed in the wrong direction for the past 20 years.


Then they drafted Lawson when he had known injuries- and under some circumstances, missing a few games or even a year wouldn't be a huge deal. But he was by far the biggest addition to a struggling D. So, the FO put us in a cap situation where we couldn't fix the D via FA then doubled down on it by drafting a guy with a known injury in the first round.

This is one of the reasons that I think we'll be in the 6-win range. However, I still see long term value in drafting a guy with his skill set.

If this defense fails again this year, it will be only in small part because of who we drafted with our 1st pick.


Decisions like that are why I don't see prospects for success. And again- that doesn't mean individual players won't have great seasons. Hell, if everyone stays healthy and Tyrod takes a step forward, the O as a whole may even be very good. I just don't see any playoffs or consistent winning anytime soon. The talent isn't there yet and the FO keeps making head-scratching decisions.

The talent isn't here, yet? This talent led to the 4th rated defense in the NFL. Even in your own words..."the O as a whole even be very good." The talent is here, the coaching isn't. I don't know how you convince yourself that there's no possibility of us being close to the playoffs anytime soon? It must be miserable to watch a Bills game with that attitude. I'm not saying it will happen, but you don't see how you're just being a negative nelly? It's ridiculous.

[OpIv37]

It is when you repeat yourself over and over and over.


Funny. You don't complain about people talking about Tyrod's potential or Watkins or our RB's being a strength over and over. It's not the repetition that bothers you...



Why doesn't that make sense? If you think your team will only win 6 games, you're not allowed to talk about the aspects of the team that you like or that give you hope for the future? Are you allowed to talk about the negatives if you expect a team to win 11 games?

You can talk about them, but talking about how much you like the team and how much potential they have while saying they're only gonna win six games is nonsensical.



That doesn't mean that we can't talk about or even be excited about the positives. It also doesn't mean that you have to argue with everyone who thinks the Bills will turn it around.


I don't understand being excited about the positives when you think the positives are only enough to get six wins. And as far as "arguing," this board is about discussing the team. If someone says something about the team that I disagree with, I respond with why I disagree. This board would be worthless if someone posted something and it was followed by 40 replies of "great post!", "I agree!" "hell yeah man!"



Here's one of your typical statements that is just BEGGING to be argued with. Then when someone inevitably argues with you, you pretend like everyone is just out to get you and claim that you didn't derail the thread. This is the reason this happens to you all of the time.

Yes, I state things in a manner to get a response. That's how discussion on a message board works. If you'll notice, while my posts my be inciteful, they are about the topic at hand. The threads get derailed when people like you and Gooby make it about ME instead of the content of the posts.



The fact is, a Rex Ryan coached team has succeeded. You can't even argue it, back to back AFC championship games is a success. That statement is ridiculous.

Yup, two playoff seasons in his first two years. He inherited a team that he got to the playoffs twice, and hasn't made the playoffs in 5 straight attempts since. The Bills actually LOST one more game under him than they did under Marrone, and he sucks.




Again, you see no possible way the Bills succeed with Brandon on the payroll? ZERO chance?

I bet you can't even tell me what Brandon's job entails. No one has been able to tell me that whenever I've asked. They just make a joke about how he's ruining the team and blah blah blah.



Brandon's job is to make as much money as possible for the team. He values the bottom dollar over football success, and as long as Brandon and the other people who were involved in Ralph's losing culture are involved, the team will not be successful. It's doing the same thing and expecting different results.




Maybe. Although I'm willing to examine a larger sample size than 1 year before I make a judgement about a guy who is trying to right the ship that been headed in the wrong direction for the past 20 years.

Then look at the Sabres. He went with the trash he inherited and spent to the cap on shiny new toys without addressing the fundamental problems. It ran the team into the ground and they are just now recovering. It's the exact same thing he's doing with the Bills.




This is one of the reasons that I think we'll be in the 6-win range. However, I still see long term value in drafting a guy with his skill set.

If this defense fails again this year, it will be only in small part because of who we drafted with our 1st pick.


The talent isn't here, yet? This talent led to the 4th rated defense in the NFL. Even in your own words..."the O as a whole even be very good." The talent is here, the coaching isn't. I don't know how you convince yourself that there's no possibility of us being close to the playoffs anytime soon? It must be miserable to watch a Bills game with that attitude. I'm not saying it will happen, but you don't see how you're just being a negative nelly? It's ridiculous.
Actually the D was terrible last year and a lot of guys from that 4th ranked D are gone. You forgot two qualifying statements- the O could be good IF Taylor develops and IF everyone stays healthy. There is no depth on this team and one or two injuries are a death sentence. Again, I do not believe Rex can be successful and like you said, Pegula won't eat the contract. So, it'll be another 2-3 years of mediocrity and by that time, guys like Darius, McCoy and Kyles Williams will age out and guys like Watkins, Woods, Karlos Williams, Darby will all need new contracts, and we will be back at square 1, just like the Sabres.

[Goobylal]

What makes you think Pegs won't eat Rex's contract? He ate Marrone's and it's not like he's hurting for money.

If the defense doesn't improve markedly and the team misses the playoffs, he's a goner.

[OpIv37]

What makes you think Pegs won't eat Rex's contract? He ate Marrone's and it's not like he's hurting for money.

If the defense doesn't improve markedly and the team misses the playoffs, he's a goner.

Actually, Marrone had an out clause and walked on his own. Pegula didn't have to pay him.

Also I owe you an apology for calling you out in my last post. You kept the arguments on topic and never made it about me. Sorry.

[Goobylal]

Actually, Marrone had an out clause and walked on his own. Pegula didn't have to pay him.

Pegs had to pay Marrone $5M to not coach his team as part of the out clause. If he was worried about money, he'd given him what he wanted.


Also I owe you an apology for calling you out in my last post. You kept the arguments on topic and never made it about me. Sorry.

What post was that?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Funny. You don't complain about people talking about Tyrod's potential or Watkins or our RB's being a strength over and over. It's not the repetition that bothers you...

Please find someone who is talking about those points over and over again, instead of just pretending that people are.


You can talk about them, but talking about how much you like the team and how much potential they have while saying they're only gonna win six games is nonsensical.

Talking about a sports team on a message board is, in and of itself, nonsensical.


I don't understand being excited about the positives when you think the positives are only enough to get six wins.

You can be excited about the positives as well as weary about the negatives at the same time. It's why you watch the friggin' game, to see what happens.


And as far as "arguing," this board is about discussing the team. If someone says something about the team that I disagree with, I respond with why I disagree. This board would be worthless if someone posted something and it was followed by 40 replies of "great post!", "I agree!" "hell yeah man!"

You can also discuss Shaw Lawson without bringing up the opinion that we'll be lucky to go 1-3 in our first 4 games. Well, some people can...but you can't.


Yes, I state things in a manner to get a response. That's how discussion on a message board works. If you'll notice, while my posts my be inciteful, they are about the topic at hand. The threads get derailed when people like you and Gooby make it about ME instead of the content of the posts.

Your 1st post in this thread states that we'll be lucky to start the season 1-3. That is a pretty big stretch to blame on Shaq's injury, unless you think we'll have more wins with him. Which game do you think he'll be directly responsible for us winning?


Yup, two playoff seasons in his first two years. He inherited a team that he got to the playoffs twice, and hasn't made the playoffs in 5 straight attempts since. The Bills actually LOST one more game under him than they did under Marrone, and he sucks.

Still, this is not even close to the statement that you made. The statement that was obviously begging for an argument. Then you come back with this...which isn't at all related to what you said.


Brandon's job is to make as much money as possible for the team. He values the bottom dollar over football success, and as long as Brandon and the other people who were involved in Ralph's losing culture are involved, the team will not be successful. It's doing the same thing and expecting different results.

So what does Brandon's job entail? You still haven't answered anything about that.

My job is to make the company I work for as much money as possible. So is literally everyone who's ever been hired by anyone.


Then look at the Sabres. He went with the trash he inherited and spent to the cap on shiny new toys without addressing the fundamental problems. It ran the team into the ground and they are just now recovering. It's the exact same thing he's doing with the Bills.

I admittedly don't follow the Sabres much, if at all. But like you say, they're recovering. I assume they've gotten better since Russ was hired as President then? (See what I did there?)


Actually the D was terrible last year and a lot of guys from that 4th ranked D are gone. You forgot two qualifying statements- the O could be good IF Taylor develops and IF everyone stays healthy. There is no depth on this team and one or two injuries are a death sentence.

You admit that there's a chance?


Again, I do not believe Rex can be successful and like you said, Pegula won't eat the contract. So, it'll be another 2-3 years of mediocrity and by that time, guys like Darius, McCoy and Kyles Williams will age out and guys like Watkins, Woods, Karlos Williams, Darby will all need new contracts, and we will be back at square 1, just like the Sabres.

There are so many other variables to that equation, though. If you truly believe what you wrote, why would you follow this team?

[OpIv37]

Pegs had to pay Marrone $5M to not coach his team as part of the out clause. If he was worried about money, he'd given him what he wanted.



What post was that?

The post was my last response to Joe.

I didn't realize Marrone still got paid on the out clause. Still, people keep talking about how Pegula isn't worried about money. He bought three franchises (Bills, Sabres, Amerks), plus Harborcenter, the arena and stadium renovations, all the FA contracts- the money isn't unlimited.

[Goobylal]

The post was my last response to Joe.

I didn't realize Marrone still got paid on the out clause. Still, people keep talking about how Pegula isn't worried about money. He bought three franchises (Bills, Sabres, Amerks), plus Harborcenter, the arena and stadium renovations, all the FA contracts- the money isn't unlimited.

No problem.

Despite it all, he's still got money to burn. I have no doubt that if the defense under-performs again, Rex will be gone.

[stuckincincy]

I didn't realize Marrone still got paid on the out clause

I assumed he insisted on the walk-away clause because of the team's track record of bouncing coaches.

That's a bad rep for a club to have, for obvious reasons.

[Frenchman]

We will start liking Rex when the Bills get on with winning more and an playoff berth!

[Goobylal]

I assumed he insisted on the walk-away clause because of the team's track record of bouncing coaches.

That's a bad rep for a club to have, for obvious reasons.

I think he did it because there were other teams hot after him and the Bills got stupid.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I think he did it because there were other teams hot after him and the Bills got stupid.

Well, he thought there were other teams hot after him. He got cocky and the Bills weren't willing to commit to him long term. I think the Bills played it perfectly. If he is willing to walk out on his team and coaching staff, then good riddance...or bye Felicia as the kids are saying nowadays.

[Goobylal]

Well, he thought there were other teams hot after him. He got cocky and the Bills weren't willing to commit to him long term. I think the Bills played it perfectly. If he is willing to walk out on his team and coaching staff, then good riddance...or bye Felicia as the kids are saying nowadays.

I was talking about the reason why he was given the $5 million if he opted out clause in his contract.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I was talking about the reason why he was given the $5 million if he opted out clause in his contract.

Oh right, totally. Totes McGoats. My bad.

[OpIv37]

The $5 million as part of the opt out clause is weird. I get the "I was hired to work for this guy- if he's not there anymore, I shouldn't be locked into working for the new guy if I don't want to" aspect of it. That makes perfect sense. The part I don't get is "I choose to no longer work for this organization but you still owe me lots of money."

[Joe Fo Sho]

The $5 million as part of the opt out clause is weird. I get the "I was hired to work for this guy- if he's not there anymore, I shouldn't be locked into working for the new guy if I don't want to" aspect of it. That makes perfect sense. The part I don't get is "I choose to no longer work for this organization but you still owe me lots of money."

Yeah, as an organization I would be very hesitant to agree to something like that. Although Ralph wouldn't have cared, the money wasn't be coming out of his pocket.

They must have really been into him to think signing that was a good idea.

Who else did we interview for that job? I think it was like Whisenhunt, Chip Kelly, and some others I can't remember. Admittedly, I remember wanting Chip Kelly over anyone else on the list.

[feldspar]

Who else did we interview for that job? I think it was like Whisenhunt, Chip Kelly, and some others I can't remember. Admittedly, I remember wanting Chip Kelly over anyone else on the list.

Besides Marrone, the Bills interviewed Ken Whisenhunt, Chip Kelly, Lovie Smith, and Ray Horton. I think that's it.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Besides Marrone, the Bills interviewed Ken Whisenhunt, Chip Kelly, Lovie Smith, and Ray Horton. I think that's it.

Clearly we searched high and low, and under every stone..

Looking at the new head coaches that year, Bruce Arians is clearly the best of the bunch and we didn't even interview him. Andy Reid would have been nice, but I don't know if he was willing to interview here. Gus Bradley is the only other coach who is still employed. We didn't interview any of the 3 best hires that year. Job well done.

[Goobylal]

Oh right, totally. Totes McGoats. My bad.

No problemo.


The $5 million as part of the opt out clause is weird. I get the "I was hired to work for this guy- if he's not there anymore, I shouldn't be locked into working for the new guy if I don't want to" aspect of it. That makes perfect sense. The part I don't get is "I choose to no longer work for this organization but you still owe me lots of money."

Now that I think about it, I think it was given/included because of the potential ownership change. And because they really wanted to sign him.

[Goobylal]

Lawson is expected to be back between games 6-8 per Adam Schefter.

[stuckincincy]

Lawson is expected to be back between games 6-8 per Adam Schefter.

Thanks for the update!

[Skooby]

Lawson is expected to be back between games 6-8 per Adam Schefter.

Is he our Designated IR guy ?? I haven't heard or looked it up.

[Dr. Lecter]

Is he our Designated IR guy ?? I haven't heard or looked it up.
He can stay on the PUP list that long, so I doubt it

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Clearly we searched high and low, and under every stone..

Looking at the new head coaches that year, Bruce Arians is clearly the best of the bunch and we didn't even interview him. Andy Reid would have been nice, but I don't know if he was willing to interview here. Gus Bradley is the only other coach who is still employed. We didn't interview any of the 3 best hires that year. Job well done.

Marrone went 15-17 in his two years here, Bradley has gone 12-36 in his three years in Jacksonville - and he had the #2 pick to start and the crappiest division in football to play against.

The other two I will grant you, but no one should be envious of Jacksonville.

[Goobylal]

Is he our Designated IR guy ?? I haven't heard or looked it up.

There is no more designated to return IR thing anymore. A team is allowed to IR anyone but bring just one player back during season. But as a Lecter said, Lawson is on the PUP list so he doesn't count against the roster and can come back between games 7-10.

By the way, were you hearing different about his injury return timetable?

[DraftBoy]

Marrone went 15-17 in his two years here, Bradley has gone 12-36 in his three years in Jacksonville - and he had the #2 pick to start and the crappiest division in football to play against.

The other two I will grant you, but no one should be envious of Jacksonville.

I'm kinda envious of them. They may not ever put it all together, but if they do that team could make a run into the playoffs as soon as this year. I don't see the Bills as being in that same category.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm kinda envious of them. They may not ever put it all together, but if they do that team could make a run into the playoffs as soon as this year. I don't see the Bills as being in that same category.

I wish we were in the AFC south too.

But other than that, they have as many question marks as we do.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Marrone went 15-17 in his two years here, Bradley has gone 12-36 in his three years in Jacksonville - and he had the #2 pick to start and the crappiest division in football to play against.

The other two I will grant you, but no one should be envious of Jacksonville.

Yeah, the only thing I was basing that on was that he was one of the three that are still employed. I think Jacksonville is on their way up, but they really need to put it together this year or it'll be the same old crappy Jaguars. I'll still take Bradley over Marrone, simply because Bradley hasn't quit on his team yet.

Who do you think were the top 3 head coaching hires in 2013?

[Skooby]

There is no more designated to return IR thing anymore. A team is allowed to IR anyone but bring just one player back during season. But as a Lecter said, Lawson is on the PUP list so he doesn't count against the roster and can come back between games 7-10.

By the way, were you hearing different about his injury return timetable?

Mid-season I was told but he might be able to get back a game or 2 early, it's all about healing and being medically cleared. Some guys can fake things better as well, it's not costing him anything to miss time so I think the later time will ring true.

[DraftBoy]

I wish we were in the AFC south too.

But other than that, they have as many question marks as we do.

Agreed, though I would say they also have more potential than we do.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Yeah, the only thing I was basing that on was that he was one of the three that are still employed. I think Jacksonville is on their way up, but they really need to put it together this year or it'll be the same old crappy Jaguars. I'll still take Bradley over Marrone, simply because Bradley hasn't quit on his team yet.

Who do you think were the top 3 head coaching hires in 2013?

Probably Chip, since he at least produced a division title. But it's a bit like arguing about who got the best qb in the 2013 draft?


Agreed, though I would say they also have more potential than we do.

Based on?

[Goobylal]

Mid-season I was told but he might be able to get back a game or 2 early, it's all about healing and being medically cleared. Some guys can fake things better as well, it's not costing him anything to miss time so I think the later time will ring true.

OK. You made a cryptic post where it sounded like he would miss the whole season. At least it seemed like you were talking about him.

[HHURRICANE]

Lawson is expected to be back between games 6-8 per Adam Schefter.

That's completely not true. I know the situation. I'd like to see where Schefter wrote about a rehab update.

[Goobylal]

That's completely not true. I know the situation. I'd like to see where Schefter wrote about a rehab update.

What is the situation then?

[feldspar]

What is the situation then?

Excellent question.

Tip-top.

[HHURRICANE]

What is the situation then?

Nothing has changed from my original post. Where is Schefters non update?

[Goobylal]

Nothing has changed from my original post. Where is Schefters non update?

So you're saying that 4 weeks later, he hasn't shown any improvement at all?

[Goobylal]

A video of SL doing footwork drills at practice today: https://mobile.twitter.com/SalSports/status/767852537164824576/video/1

[Ed]

Shoulder looks fine. Suit him up.

[Goobylal]

Here's another even more encouraging video: https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/767849965217583104

And a pic: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqfzT7uWYAAtPmy.jpg:large

Looks like your buds don't know what's going on, HH.

[Ed]

Here's another even more encouraging video: https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/767849965217583104

And a pic: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqfzT7uWYAAtPmy.jpg:large

Looks like your buds don't know what's going on, HH.

Which shoulder did he hurt?

[Goobylal]

Which shoulder did he hurt?

The right one.

[Goobylal]

I can only assume HH is trying to contact his buds who claim to be close to the situation and say to them "WTF?!"

[justasportsfan]

A video of SL doing footwork drills at practice today: https://mobile.twitter.com/SalSports/status/767852537164824576/video/1

today he did the same drill, on a hand stand, running backwards, with his eyes closed :up:

[trapezeus]

I've had a coworker have the same procedure that Lawson had and he couldn't lift his arm over shoulder height for like 2-3 months. I get that a football player rehabs faster, but my coworker also didn't need to push a 300 OL back repeatedly. He felt like he needed 6 months to really feel like he has his shoulder strength back. not knowing all the details on SL, I think this season is lost for him. if he sees game time, the bills are doing it out of desperation than him really being 100%.

[Skooby]

I've had a coworker have the same procedure that Lawson had and he couldn't lift his arm over shoulder height for like 2-3 months. I get that a football player rehabs faster, but my coworker also didn't need to push a 300 OL back repeatedly. He felt like he needed 6 months to really feel like he has his shoulder strength back. not knowing all the details on SL, I think this season is lost for him. if he sees game time, the bills are doing it out of desperation than him really being 100%.

What kind of shape was your coworker in ?? Like NFL shape ??

[swiper]

What kind of shape was your coworker in ?? Like NFL shape ??

Stop being a dick.

[HHURRICANE]

Yeah his upper body looks great. Didn't notice how much mass he lost up top?

Yeah those videos show a guy doing nothing on his shoulder.

Im not sure why I share stuff here. You guys called BS last year when I literally gave you the announcement on Dareus the night before it happened. And when I told you Spikes was a game or two from blowing his Achilles.

[Mace]

Give him time, let him come back 100% and slow and steady. By the time he can it won't make or break a season. he's not that type of player. He's potentially a fine piece but not THE piece like a JJ Watt.

I just want him to get healthy, even if it takes the whole season. There's no helping that he isn't, so it goes.

[Oaf]

Stop being a dick.

:;

[feldspar]

The right one.

Funny, I thought it was the wrong one.

[Skooby]

Stop being a dick.

Valid question. if your Rudy or the rock is going to make a difference & coming back from where you're at is a matter of perspective of where you you've been.

[justasportsfan]

Im not sure why I share stuff here.
because you like to pretend you have inside information or have inside connections?

[trapezeus]

I have heard the same thing about the shoulder. that the bills official time table is extremely optimistic and that his shoulder coming into the surgery was really not good at all. I would rather lose him for a full season and get him back 100% in a season where we probably aren't going to compete, than to have him rush back and be ineffective and possibly have to deal with reinjury.

[Goobylal]

Yeah his upper body looks great. Didn't notice how much mass he lost up top?

Yeah those videos show a guy doing nothing on his shoulder.

Im not sure why I share stuff here. You guys called BS last year when I literally gave you the announcement on Dareus the night before it happened. And when I told you Spikes was a game or two from blowing his Achilles.

You said just 2 weeks ago that nothing had changed from your initial report from a month ago (which at that time was 2 months after surgery), that he was working on swinging his arm 6" back and forth. Obviously by the pictures/videos he's doing much more than that, and he's expected to be out another 2 months. We'll see where he is by then.

[Skooby]

We need him out there healthy as well, not freaking all ready to get hurt again.

[Goobylal]

We need him out there healthy as well, not freaking all ready to get hurt again.

I agree with that. No need to put him at risk, especially considering the defense is looking pretty good without him.

[jamze132]

Yeah his upper body looks great. Didn't notice how much mass he lost up top?

Yeah those videos show a guy doing nothing on his shoulder.

Im not sure why I share stuff here. You guys called BS last year when I literally gave you the announcement on Dareus the night before it happened. And when I told you Spikes was a game or two from blowing his Achilles.
Just ignore the tard nuggets. Some of us appreciate ya man.