Some good Ryan coaching activity

[Mace]

Credit where credit is due, this is stuff I like to see.


In a number of series in training camp, Ryan has purposely put the defense in poor personnel groupings and less than ideal play calls to force his defenders to think, adjust or make the best of a bad situation knowing they will inevitably come up during the season.

and


Another recent example came in a two-minute drill period when only the offense knew the down and distance at the end of a series. The defense was purposely kept in the dark and had to adjust and react to the offense on the fly. The result of the play was a touchdown, but for Ryan and his defensive staff it was a teaching moment to help prepare their defensive unit for stressful split-second situations where you just have to make it work the best you can and get to the next play.

From # 3 at : http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Top-3-things-you-need-to-know-from-Day-9-at-Bills-Camp/f35689ac-26c0-485c-8170-2fffeb381cb7?platform=hootsuite

[swiper]

As opposed to letting the defense work and gel together as a single, cohesive unit? Yeah, no. Sounds like more Buddy Ryan stupidity to me.

[Mace]

As opposed to letting the defense work and gel together as a single, cohesive unit? Yeah, no. Sounds like more Buddy Ryan stupidity to me.

You can't get around that his defense is predicated on substitutions and switching roles. Better or worse, that won't change. So it's actually smart of him to throw them into mismatches and uncertainty, because that's how it will inevitably end up anyway.

[YardRat]

In a number of series in training camp, Ryan has purposely put the defense in poor personnel groupings and less than ideal play calls

"You guys need to get used to dealing with ****ty coaching, because you're going to see it in the regular season, especially from me and Wrob."


Another recent example came in a two-minute drill period when only the offense knew the down and distance at the end of a series. The defense was purposely kept in the dark and had to adjust and react to the offense on the fly.

"You also might want to get used to not knowing what the hell is going on, because you're going to see a lot of that too."

[Mace]

"You guys need to get used to dealing with ****ty coaching, because you're going to see it in the regular season, especially from me and Wrob."



"You also might want to get used to not knowing what the hell is going on, because you're going to see a lot of that too."

Pretty much so isn't it smart to practice for it ?

[sahlensguy]

Sounds similar to self explanation learning.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1207/s15516709cog1302_1/abstract

In summary, good students benefit from this, while poor students do not.

Just a guess that an average NFL lockeroom isn't made up of rocket scientists.

Once again, OBD out smarting the rest.

[stuckincincy]

You can't get around that his defense is predicated on substitutions and switching roles. Better or worse, that won't change. So it's actually smart of him to throw them into mismatches and uncertainty, because that's how it will inevitably end up anyway.

I see some sense with this, but with I would worry that those mismatches and that uncertainty the players are supposed to react to may result in twisted ankles and knees.

[bleve]

Rex Ryan is not a bad guy imho. He's not a good HC. I don't hate on the guy, I just hate on the person (cough**Russ**cough) who enabled his hire.

[feldspar]

They're all demons, fellas.

Never forget that, and don't take your eye off the mark; otherwise, they'll drag you to hell in your preoccupation. Nothing could be more serious...

[zone]

I think at the end of the day it will all come down to who is QB'ing the defense if there is a strong leader on the field that can get the team in the best position to succeed even when the situation is not optimal then we have the chance to be a great defense.

[bdutton]

As opposed to letting the defense work and gel together as a single, cohesive unit? Yeah, no. Sounds like more Buddy Ryan stupidity to me.

Better to get burned in TC and learn, than to get burned in a game and lose.

[swiper]

Better to get burned in TC and learn, than to get burned in a game and lose.

Yeah and? That has nothing to do with what I posted. You are certainly a dumb ass. And should not be allowed to own firearms due to your degree of stupidity.

[trapezeus]

I am not a rex apologist, its known that I think he's a poor gameday coach. but being prepared when you saw last year that you made personnel mistakes seems like a good thing to practice in addition to your regular duties. "try not to get caught in these mismatches, but if they exist, this is how we are going to try and adjust" that seems like common sense and a good thing to work through. now if the whole training camp is based on this, it's idiotic. but I don't get the sense that it is.

[bdutton]

Yeah and? That has nothing to do with what I posted. You are certainly a dumb ass. And should not be allowed to own firearms due to your degree of stupidity.

LOL... Does that sand in your vag itch much?

[swiper]

LOL... Does that sand in your vag itch much?

You prove my point.

[bdutton]

You prove my point.

ORLY?

Are you a certified coach? I am. One of the first things you learn about being a good coach is pushing your athletes outside their comfort zone which is exactly what Ryan was doing.

[Mace]

Just a guess that an average NFL lockeroom isn't made up of rocket scientists.

The problem though is that Ryan's complex schemes need rocket scientists anyway...poor students aren't going to cut it.

I don't like his defense, I'm not shy about saying it. But we're stuck with it. So the chinese fire drill practice is contingency oriented, and meant to bring across theory, whatever his theory is.

I just can't see how practicing for the inevitable is a bad thing. "So, if you don't know what's going on, and we're in this, you..."

After last seasons defensive performance, I'd think people would be happier they're practicing disaster recovery.

[OpIv37]

"Look guys, we all know I kinda suck. At some point, either you're gonna make a mistake because I didn't teach you properly or I'm gonna **** up and send in the goal line package on 1st and 10 because I think they didn't convert and it's third and short. I need you guys to be prepared for when that happens."

[Mace]

"Look guys, we all know I kinda suck. At some point, either you're gonna make a mistake because I didn't teach you properly or I'm gonna **** up and send in the goal line package on 1st and 10 because I think they didn't convert and it's third and short. I need you guys to be prepared for when that happens."

YES.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I think we all saw what happened when teams (and I think we all know which team in particular) went hurry up offense on us. It was utter chaos and in all the wrong ways.

It does seem good that Rex is deliberately attacking his weaknesses, unforced penalties and substitution problems, head on in the early going.

[sahlensguy]

The problem though is that Ryan's complex schemes need rocket scientists anyway...poor students aren't going to cut it.

I don't like his defense, I'm not shy about saying it. But we're stuck with it. So the chinese fire drill practice is contingency oriented, and meant to bring across theory, whatever his theory is.

I just can't see how practicing for the inevitable is a bad thing. "So, if you don't know what's going on, and we're in this, you..."

After last seasons defensive performance, I'd think people would be happier they're practicing disaster recovery.

There is a determined schedule for TC that all teams adhere to. You are trying to cram more info into your players than your opponent can cram into thier players in the same amount of time. If you don't have a room full of good students, self explanation learning is s waste of time, losing ground on the opponent. Tough call really but man, TC is short.

[justasportsfan]

Credit where credit is due, this is stuff I like to see.



and



From # 3 at : http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Top-3-things-you-need-to-know-from-Day-9-at-Bills-Camp/f35689ac-26c0-485c-8170-2fffeb381cb7?platform=hootsuite


According to Sean Peyton, this happened a lot during regular season under Rob. According to our players last year , this happened a lot during regular season under Rexy. How bout we just train our coaches not to be stupid during gameday and stop confusing our players.

[justasportsfan]

The problem though is that Ryan's complex schemes need rocket scientists anyway...poor students aren't going to cut it.
.

It also makes talented players average to crappy when they are confused. Instead of just playing the game, they end up standing there dropping back to cover a receiver like Dareus did last year. Sometimes you just have to let jocks play.

[Joe Fo Sho]

If this were a story about what Belichick was doing, he would be praised for his thoroughness and ingenuity.

[sahlensguy]

According to Sean Peyton, this happened a lot during regular season under Rob. According to our players last year , this happened a lot during regular season under Rexy. How bout we just train our coaches not to be stupid during gameday and stop confusing our players.

How'd that work out ?!

[justasportsfan]

If this were a story about what Belichick was doing, he would be praised for his thoroughness and ingenuity.

the thing is, there are no examples tha seem to show that BB players were confused on gameday. I don't think I ever recalled Wilfork dropping back to cover passes.

[justasportsfan]

How'd that work out ?!

Rob got reunited with is brother.

[sahlensguy]

Rob got reunited with is brother.

Unlike BB, I would never consider either of the Ryan brothers to be a tactical student and teacher of the game. More of the rah rah type. This teaching technique requires tactical teachers and cerebral players under an established system. This is not the current Bills.

For this team I'll defer to Bill Murray in Stripes - "That's the fact Jack". Just the facts.

* Edit * Sorry. The Stripes reference doesn't fit here, but the Graduation scene is funny as **** anyway.

[Joe Fo Sho]

the thing is, there are no examples tha seem to show that BB players were confused on gameday.

None? Ever? Don't be ridiculous. There's not a single example of the Patriot defense being confused and blowing coverage or not blitzing through the correct gaps?


I don't think I ever recalled Wilfork dropping back to cover passes.

Then you weren't paying attention.

http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4768395/when-vince-wilfork-drops-into-coverage


"We actually go to a three-man rush here, where Vince pulls out into coverage," Belichick explained. "They are trying to run a clear-out route with the crosser underneath. We have good coverage from [Darrelle] Revis, ready to pick up [Kyle] Rudolph on the crosser. Vince drops out here and you see [Matt] Cassel come off the crosser and come back to the check-down, and probably didn't expect to see Vince to be standing there in front of the check-down. ... Can't find that receiver."

Here's another example of big Vince Wilfork in coverage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF747Kqx1qg

Maybe you just don't here about it because Vince doesn't moan and ache when he's asked to do it like some Bills players.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I don't think I ever recalled Wilfork dropping back to cover passes.

Here's another video of a Wilfork INT where it looks like he's being asked to cover the back, or at least try to chip him if he can. Similar to what was asked of Mario.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpO9sLIFtCs

Dropping defensive lineman into coverage is not a new thing, and it's not a Rex-specific thing. It's a good strategy if it's done correctly, it can surprise a quarterback.

[sahlensguy]

That's "dropping" into coverage??? Both Wolford clips have him 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

[Joe Fo Sho]

That's "dropping" into coverage???

I'm not sure if you're joking or if you actually don't know what dropping into coverage means.

[sahlensguy]

I'm not sure if you're joking or if you actually don't know what dropping into coverage means.

No, I did not know that dropping back in coverage meant two yards up field.

[Joe Fo Sho]

No, I did not know that dropping back in coverage meant two yards up field.

It's true! Receivers don't magically become eligible once they reach a certain point on the field, they can be anywhere.

[sahlensguy]

It's true! Receivers don't magically become eligible once they reach a certain point on the field, they can be anywhere.

I'm not convinced that that is what is meant by dropping Mario into coverage, but if that is all Rex asked of him to do, all of his winning and half of this board's winning, well I'd have to reasess. But I doubt it.

[justasportsfan]

None? Ever? Don't be ridiculous. There's not a single example of the Patriot defense being confused and blowing coverage or not blitzing through the correct gaps?



Then you weren't paying attention.

http://www.espn.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4768395/when-vince-wilfork-drops-into-coverage



Here's another example of big Vince Wilfork in coverage.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF747Kqx1qg

Maybe you just don't here about it because Vince doesn't moan and ache when he's asked to do it like some Bills players.

Congratulations you found one example. My point still stands , BB teams werent as confused as the Ryan bros teams.

One got fired because his team was at the bottom of the league and one ruined a no.4 D because his players were confused.

Maybe you can help me find what BBs record vs the Ryan bros. ?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Congratulations you found one example. My point still stands , BB teams werent as confused as the Ryan bros teams.

One got fired because his team was at the bottom of the league and one ruined a no.4 D because his players were confused.

Maybe you can help me find what BBs record vs the Ryan bros. ?

How do you think Belichick teams get so poised?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Congratulations you found one example. My point still stands , BB teams werent as confused as the Ryan bros teams.

One got fired because his team was at the bottom of the league and one ruined a no.4 D because his players were confused.

Maybe you can help me find what BBs record vs the Ryan bros. ?

I found three examples in 5 minutes of searching through google and youtube. I'm sure I could find more if I had the actual tape and a bunch of free time.

If you think Belichick doesn't prepare his team for being in poor positions, then you're out of your mind. The guy is known for getting his team ready for every situation imaginable. And cheating...he's known for cheating.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Here's another link I found in 15 seconds about dropping lineman into coverage.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/preview05/columns/insider/story?id=2148654&columnist=joyner_kc

[QUOTE]Pittsburgh also had athletic defensive linemen, such as Kenny Davidson and Joel Steed. LeBeau realized he could use those guys the same way he used the linebackers -- either rushing them or dropping them into coverage on any given down. LeBeau even used this technique with his nose tackles, reasoning that since the middle short zones of the field aren't that hard to protect, he could drop Steed, his relatively rangy nose tackle, into that area. This also allowed him the option of rushing or dropping his inside linebackers as well. The defense gained a lot of pass-rushing versatility without losing much in coverage ability./QUOTE]

What an idiot Dick LeBeau must've been. No wonder Ron Jaworski called him "arguably the best ever to coach defense."

[Joe Fo Sho]

I'm not convinced that that is what is meant by dropping Mario into coverage, but if that is all Rex asked of him to do, all of his winning and half of this board's winning, well I'd have to reasess. But I doubt it.

I think the biggest gripe Mario had was when he was asked to chip the running back and sometimes cover the flat zone. It took away from his chances at getting a sack. It's not like he was covering DeAndre Hopkins on the deep post route. Besides, wasn't Mario a linebacker in Rex's scheme? Is that really asking too much for a linebacker to do?

You could tell Rex was pissed during the Pats Monday night game. Right before halftime the Pats scored on a little dump off to their running back in the flat. Mario was supposed to chip the running back to slow him down and if he did, we probably would have sacked Brady. He didn't though, and they scored. Mario still didn't get that coveted sack on his stat sheet.

[justasportsfan]

I found three examples in 5 minutes of searching through google and youtube. I'm sure I could find more if I had the actual tape and a bunch of free time.

If you think Belichick doesn't prepare his team for being in poor positions, then you're out of your mind. The guy is known for getting his team ready for every situation imaginable. And cheating...he's known for cheating.

Im sure he makes mistakes. But not bad enough that he takes a very talented no..4 D and drops it to 19 and ends up having a 31st ranked pass rush. And not enough to get called out by his HC and gets fired for having the 31st ranked D.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Im sure he makes mistakes. But not bad enough that he takes a very talented no..4 D and drops it to 19 and ends up having a 31st ranked pass rush. And not enough to get called out by his HC and gets fired for having the 31st ranked D.

I'm only defending Rex in this instance. I'm not defending his dismantling of our defense last year.

[Bill Cody]

"Look I need you guys to be able to think outside the box, be ready for anything. And then I'll get you overhyped for the real games, you'll take a bunch of stupid, overaggressive penalties and we'll lose. On three...TEAM"