Sal Capaccio wants you to Know

[Ginger Vitis]

That Doug Whaley DID NOT draft EJ Manuel... Sal just said on WGR he knows for a fact that Buddy Nix desperately wanted a QB going into the 2013 draft and it was Buddy Nix decision to draft EJ Manuel... What a wonderful way to go out on retirement with that dubious decision

[stuckincincy]

That Doug Whaley DID NOT draft EJ Manuel... Sal just said on WGR he knows for a fact that Buddy Nix desperately wanted a QB going into the 2013 draft and it was Buddy Nix decision to draft EJ Manuel... What a wonderful way to go out on retirement with that dubious decision

Elder abuse. I get it all the time. Mostly here. :kid:

[OpIv37]

sounds like a Russ Brandon spin job to me.

[Goobylal]

Doesn't make a difference? They needed a quarterback and nobody drafted that year turned out to be worth anything.

[Ginger Vitis]

Doesn't make a difference?

Taking a flyer on Matt Barkley in the 3rd round compared to completely whiffing on EJ with the 16th pick makes a difference.. And since I'm playing this hindsight game the bills wouldn't have been any worse off taking Barkley instead of Marquise Goodwin in the 3rd round

[stuckincincy]

sounds like a Russ Brandon spin job to me.

Business Practices 101 - Blame the guy who is no longer there.

[Night Train]

That's old news.

It was reported back then that was Buddys gift out the door from Ralph. Selecting a QB who is a bust.

Whatever. At least they found Taylor, drafted Jones and will draft another QB next year. At least they had the sense to start the right QB last year and move on.

[sudzy]

Doesn't make a difference? They needed a quarterback and nobody drafted that year turned out to be worth anything.

So you force a 1st round pick in one of the worst QB drafts ever? They could have went BPA, then drafted Carr or Bridgewater the following year and been so much farther ahead, right now. How many other years have they needed a QB? 75% of the teams existence? How many other times have they force a QB pick in the first round (when there wasn't a guy worthy)? JP. Everyone that had anything to do with that pick should have been fired.

[OpIv37]

Doesn't make a difference? They needed a quarterback and nobody drafted that year turned out to be worth anything.

It matters when the only improvements they made over last year's 8-8 team were rookies who are dropping like flies due to injuries and Russ Brandon still needs to sell tickets.

"No, the guy who wasted the 16th overall on a useless QB retired. We have the guy responsible for the good picks "

I don't know- I wasn't there. Maybe it's the truth. But I truly believe that this is what they would tell the media regardless of the actual truth.

[The King]

The best thing about the EJ pick was that it wasn't a killer for us. We traded back from the Austin pick and got Kiko and EJ with that deal. Kiko turned into McCoy. So we still got Production from that #9 pick. It was a pretty safe move.

The JP Losman pick was a back breaker and derailed this team for the better half of a decade. EJ cost us a few games.

[Skooby]

EJ will be gone at first opportunity, we need an elder statesman to play QB just in case.

[stuckincincy]

The best thing about the EJ pick was that it wasn't a killer for us. We traded back from the Austin pick and got Kiko and EJ with that deal. Kiko turned into McCoy. So we still got Production from that #9 pick. It was a pretty safe move.

The JP Losman pick was a back breaker and derailed this team for the better half of a decade. EJ cost us a few games.

Waiting for that new cartoon... :wave:

[trapezeus]

this debate is so boring. it does seem largely on buddy since he didn't know he was being recorded. that forced our hand to can fitz and look for someone fresh. but whaley was on the record saying its his pick and that he should be judgd by EJ's success or lack thereof. ej is pretty spectacularly bad. that jags game should not have played out like that. he singlehandedly threw a game away. but as long as the entire front office never pays the price for 16 crappy years, there is reason to believe that there will be another 16 terrible years ahead.

[feldspar]

sounds like a Russ Brandon spin job to me.

Dumb.

Nix went on record saying that he wanted to get the QB of the future in here before his time was up. He drafted for need instead of talent, which is always a danger. Picked the wrong year to press the issue. But at least we traded down and got some value in the end. We also didn't waste very much time with EJ...just one year, really.

People with one brain cell take a wild stab a Russ Brandon when they need a scapegoat. He had nothing to do with it.

Part of anyone's job is to talk up the personnel the team actually DOES have in public. So if Whaley talked up EJ, then that explains it.

[trapezeus]

russ never has anything to do with it. he just happens to be the only guy who's been there the entire 16 years of mediocrity. Thanks, Feld.

[feldspar]

russ never has anything to do with it. he just happens to be the only guy who's been there the entire 16 years of mediocrity. Thanks, Feld.

Russ Brandon can be blamed for your micro-penis, too, probably.

Your welcome.

[sahlensguy]

Lol. What kind of dope of a GM talks about a player like that, who is still on the team!

[justasportsfan]

sounds like a Russ Brandon spin job to me.
Aren't you tired of guessing and insisting your opinion is the way it went. Why am I even asking ???

[swiper]

That Doug Whaley DID NOT draft EJ Manuel... Sal just said on WGR he knows for a fact that Buddy Nix desperately wanted a QB going into the 2013 draft and it was Buddy Nix decision to draft EJ Manuel... What a wonderful way to go out on retirement with that dubious decision

Only problem is that Doug Whaley has said publicly and repeatedly that the pick was his.

[sdbillsfan2]

So who do you believe? Sal or Doug Whaley himself ?
This article was written awhile back when everyones memory was fresh..
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-an-integral-part-of-drafting-ej-manuel/

[swiper]

Doesn't make a difference? They needed a quarterback and nobody drafted that year turned out to be worth anything.

That's why they should have drafted one, urgently, two years before. Buddy's fault was overpaying Fitzpatrick then just standing pat on that move.

[justasportsfan]

So who do you believe? Sal or Doug Whaley himself ?
This article was written awhile back when everyones memory was fresh..
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-an-integral-part-of-drafting-ej-manuel/

I dont expect Whaley to throw the guy that brought him here under the bus.

[Mace]

I dont expect Whaley to throw the guy that brought him here under the bus.

You shouldn't expect him to be real eager to claim credit for failure via opportunism either.

Drafting Manuel wasn't the issue imho, drafting him that early was and then hanging on to him for dear life. That was a terrible QB draft and Manuel had about as much potential as anyone. He would have been there in 2.

Claiming or denying credit is fairly aggressive, you don't have to do either unless you intend to.

[justasportsfan]

You shouldn't expect him to be real eager to claim credit for failure via opportunism either.

Drafting Manuel wasn't the issue imho, drafting him that early was and then hanging on to him for dear life. That was a terrible QB draft and Manuel had about as much potential as anyone. He would have been there in 2.

Claiming or denying credit is fairly aggressive, you don't have to do either unless you intend to.

Does it matter if he claimed it publicly as long as everyone in one bills drive know the truth? Actually he would gain respect if people in obd knew he didn't throw Nix under the bus

Where EJ was drafted was still Nixs call

[Mace]

Does it matter if he claimed it publicly as long as everyone in one bills drive know the truth? Actually he would gain respect if people in obd knew he didn't throw Nix under the bus

Where EJ was drafted was still Nixs call

Well, it does to me in some sense because I'm not favorable to Whaley. He's happy to try and claim some credit when he can (he still thought Manuel would come through in the context of when the article was presented) but not man up when he can't, like the feeble o-line rebuild of Richardson, Kouandjio and Henderson. The guys keep lingering and it isn't because they're that good.

Whaley in the article said it was team effort, not that it was Nix's call. So how do you get it was Nix' call unless Whaley is lying. Lying is deceitful. Deceitful is a selfish indulgence. You gain credit if you think something is successful, the flip side is you take the fall if it doesn't.

So a smart guy is put in that position, and takes responsibility. He doesn't need credit or throwing anyone under the bus. "We" felt that was the best pick "we" could make, when "we" made it. "We" did, here "we" are. There's no need to take credit or assign blame. It works out on the field or it doesn't.

But Whaley said he was part of that decision, so I'm not going to throw the long gone Nix under the bus either just because it seems more comforting to blame someone who isn't still here.

Is the team better in your opinion that Whaley gained respect for inserting himself into a decision you say he wasn't involved in ? In the context of the time, was that opportunistic of Whaley to insert himself if he had no involvement ?

Isn't that indeed Brandonish ?

[trapezeus]

Russ Brandon can be blamed for your micro-penis, too, probably.

Your welcome.

you're.

[feldspar]

you're.

Yore.

[OpIv37]

Dumb.

Nix went on record saying that he wanted to get the QB of the future in here before his time was up. He drafted for need instead of talent, which is always a danger. Picked the wrong year to press the issue. But at least we traded down and got some value in the end. We also didn't waste very much time with EJ...just one year, really.

People with one brain cell take a wild stab a Russ Brandon when they need a scapegoat. He had nothing to do with it.

Part of anyone's job is to talk up the personnel the team actually DOES have in public. So if Whaley talked up EJ, then that explains it.

Dumb.

First, You don't know that Nix had final say on EJ, but even if he did, Whaley may or may not have been involved in that decision. You can't automatically let him off the hook unless you were there, and we know you weren't.

Second, there are only two ways to fill holes in the NFL: FA and the draft. Nix's tenure came when Ralph's health was failing and Brandon ran the team operationally under Ralph's general marching orders. They valued the bottom line over winning. With Mario being the one notable exception, they slammed the door on FA. The draft was Nix's only avenue to fill holes. I remember one offseason where Nix admitted to taking a nap when FA started. At the time it pissed me off, but the more I think about it, the more I like it as a protest move. If Brandon isn't going to sign a check, there is no point in partaking in the FA frenzy.

[OpIv37]

Aren't you tired of guessing and insisting your opinion is the way it went. Why am I even asking ???

I already said I don't know how it went down. What I do know is that this is what they have to say publicly regardless of how it actually went down.

[feldspar]

Dumb.

First, You don't know that Nix had final say on EJ, but even if he did, Whaley may or may not have been involved in that decision. You can't automatically let him off the hook unless you were there, and we know you weren't.

Second, there are only two ways to fill holes in the NFL: FA and the draft. Nix's tenure came when Ralph's health was failing and Brandon ran the team operationally under Ralph's general marching orders. They valued the bottom line over winning. With Mario being the one notable exception, they slammed the door on FA. The draft was Nix's only avenue to fill holes. I remember one offseason where Nix admitted to taking a nap when FA started. At the time it pissed me off, but the more I think about it, the more I like it as a protest move. If Brandon isn't going to sign a check, there is no point in partaking in the FA frenzy.

Nix was the GM, unless he wasn't. But, no really, he was.

The goal seemed to be to identify the best QB in that draft and go get him. Can you honestly say that the goal was not accomplished? They seemed to have their **** together enough to realize what the market had to offer that year, since they traded down before taking the first QB off the board.

How can you possibly know that the Bills valued the bottom line over winning? Because they weren't winning? Very lazy way to think about it. Ralph was going to die soon because of his age, sure. But the team was going to fetch a good billion no matter what. Would you pay more for a winning team if you had that kind of money? Perhaps somebody would. None of the Wilsons ever had to worry about money no matter what, or felt compelled to even eat at Taco Bell.

When you have a billion dollars in your left-hand pocket, money becomes pretty much meaningless. This is my theory.

[Goobylal]

Taking a flyer on Matt Barkley in the 3rd round compared to completely whiffing on EJ with the 16th pick makes a difference.. And since I'm playing this hindsight game the bills wouldn't have been any worse off taking Barkley instead of Marquise Goodwin in the 3rd round

Barkley's garbage and soon to be out of the league. He won't even make it as a backup.

[Goobylal]

So you force a 1st round pick in one of the worst QB drafts ever? They could have went BPA, then drafted Carr or Bridgewater the following year and been so much farther ahead, right now. How many other years have they needed a QB? 75% of the teams existence? How many other times have they force a QB pick in the first round (when there wasn't a guy worthy)? JP. Everyone that had anything to do with that pick should have been fired.

Every year is supposedly a better year for quarterbacks. Bridgewater and Carr were mostly nobodies until that season, and Brdgewater isn't even that good, while several teams passed on Carr.

[stuckincincy]

Every year is supposedly a better year for quarterbacks. Bridgewater and Carr were mostly nobodies until that season, and Brdgewater isn't even that good, while several teams passed on Carr.

Somehow, they have managed to miss on quarterbacks - year after year, be it draft or FA acquisition or trade - since Jim Kelly hung up his spikes in 1996. That's a long time.

[feldspar]

Somehow, they have managed to miss on quarterbacks - year after year, be it draft or FA acquisition or trade - since Jim Kelly hung up his spikes in 1996. That's a long time.

They managed to miss on quarterbacks, even though they grow on trees?

[Mr. Pink]

So who do you believe? Sal or Doug Whaley himself ?
This article was written awhile back when everyones memory was fresh..
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-an-integral-part-of-drafting-ej-manuel/

Sal is a blowhard and was one even back when he posted on this board.

He fits in with the two other idiots on the evening drive who think their opinions are the only ones that matter and cut off/hang up on anyone who doesn't agree with them.

[stuckincincy]

They managed to miss on quarterbacks, even though they grow on trees?

Well, over the past 20 years, some other clubs seem to have gotten some decent QBs.

[feldspar]

Well, over the past 20 years, some other clubs seem to have gotten some decent QBs.

The lucky ones have. It takes more luck than skill or anything else, I says. As I've mentioned, franchise QBs are not falling off the vine.

Then there are plenty of other clubs that have NOT gotten some decent QBs for a long time...a long, long time. Those clubs are not hard to indentify...they're the ones that haven't been winning.

[Novacane]

The best thing about the EJ pick was that it wasn't a killer for us. We traded back from the Austin pick and got Kiko and EJ with that deal. Kiko turned into McCoy. So we still got Production from that #9 pick. It was a pretty safe move.

The JP Losman pick was a back breaker and derailed this team for the better half of a decade. EJ cost us a few games.


If he wanted EJ so bad Nix could of traded back again and gotten another player then traded back a couple more times and gotten a couple more players and then drafted EJ in the 3rd round.

[Ginger Vitis]

If he wanted EJ so bad Nix could of traded back again and gotten another player then traded back a couple more times and gotten a couple more players and then drafted EJ in the 3rd round.

There were rumours at the time Chip Kelly would have taken EJ with his 2nd round pick or traded up into the 1st round to take Manuel... The other rumour was the 49ers who were picking 31st wanted to trade up to 16 but the bills declined fearing trading down to 31 they would have the eagles leapfrog them and they would lose out on Manuel

http://www.hngn.com/articles/92697/20150516/philadelphia-eagles-rumors-ej-manuel-a-trade-target-for-chip-kelly.htm

[trapezeus]

ultimately, it doesn't matter who made the pick. the bills put themselves in that position by having buddy get recorded like an idiot bad mouthing fitz. fitz could have been serviceable for another year or two. and in retrospect, we didn't do any better without him. so why not have a little stability at qb and build the rest of the team. instead we got forced into taking a qb in a weak class. and we took a weak injury prone backup to try and teach him. to be this bad for 16 years isn't just on the GM or just the coaches. there is complaceny in the entire organization because the team president for years has made it clear that winning doesn't matter. him keeping his job matters and he'll sacrifice everyone else to keep that job. Now tell me, what sane person would like to work in such an organization?

[OpIv37]

Nix was the GM, unless he wasn't. But, no really, he was.

The goal seemed to be to identify the best QB in that draft and go get him. Can you honestly say that the goal was not accomplished? They seemed to have their **** together enough to realize what the market had to offer that year, since they traded down before taking the first QB off the board.

How can you possibly know that the Bills valued the bottom line over winning? Because they weren't winning? Very lazy way to think about it. Ralph was going to die soon because of his age, sure. But the team was going to fetch a good billion no matter what. Would you pay more for a winning team if you had that kind of money? Perhaps somebody would. None of the Wilsons ever had to worry about money no matter what, or felt compelled to even eat at Taco Bell.

When you have a billion dollars in your left-hand pocket, money becomes pretty much meaningless. This is my theory.
I know they value the bottom line over winning because they went into the season anywhere from $10-20 million under the cap while good players were walking and no attempts were made to fill holes in FA.

[swiper]

That's why they should have drafted one, urgently, two years before. Buddy's fault was overpaying Fitzpatrick then just standing pat on that move.

Great. And now Whaley pulls the same move with Taylor. Overpaid him with nobody in the hopper.

[Goobylal]

Great. And now Whaley pulls the same move with Taylor. Overpaid him with nobody in the hopper.

We shall see.

[BertSquirtgum]

It's been very clear since the day it happened that Buddy Nix drafted Manuel. Why people like to argue this truth blows my mind. It's only because they don't like Doug Whaley and want to blame him for the pick. It was 100% Nix's decision to draft Manuel Ejaculation where the Bills did. Get over it.

[DesertFox24]

Why are we talking about this. Who cares more qb misses have happened than hits and we just happened to be one of the many misses.

Hopefully tyrod will allow us to continue to draft and develop qbs and be like Green Bay in the 90s.

Whaley will have to draft another one this year since EJ is gone.

[Goobylal]

It's been very clear since the day it happened that Buddy Nix drafted Manuel. Why people like to argue this truth blows my mind. It's only because they don't like Doug Whaley and want to blame him for the pick. It was 100% Nix's decision to draft Manuel Ejaculation where the Bills did. Get over it.

Nix was the GM and was the one who made the pick. Period, end of story. Whaley was probably "integral" in that he said "sure Buddy," but that's about it.

[bleve]

"We need to geet ourselves a korterback"

~ Buddy Nix