View Full Version : Van Pelt to be cut?
DraftBoy
07-26-2003, 06:27 PM
Just a thought, so far I have heard great things from Travis Brown outta camp, is it possible if Johnson shows anything at all that they will cut Van Pelt and go with Brown #2, and Johnson #3?
northernbillfan
07-26-2003, 06:30 PM
Van Pelt deserves to be with the team until we win a Super Ball.
That's MHO!
mypoorfriendme
07-26-2003, 06:36 PM
super ball? anyways, i agree. hes been with this team for a while now and has always been a descent backup. and with the emergence of no-name qbs nowadays (maddox, brady, feeley, bulger, etc.) i wouldnt be surprised if we kept all 3 (van pelt, jason johnson, and travis brown).
The_Philster
07-26-2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by mypoorfriendme
super ball? .
That IS what the Super Bowl was named after.
Originally posted by mypoorfriendme
anyways, i agree. hes been with this team for a while now and has always been a descent backup. and with the emergence of no-name qbs nowadays (maddox, brady, feeley, bulger, etc.) i wouldnt be surprised if we kept all 3 (van pelt, jason johnson, and travis brown).
I don't see us carrying 4 QBs on the roster...maybe the practice squad for Johnson.
northernbillfan
07-26-2003, 06:57 PM
Hey it's been avery long,long day.
You know wwhat I meant.
Of course hewould be a kind of Cinderella story QB, if he stepped into replace Drew.
Dozerdog
07-26-2003, 07:16 PM
They aren't going to keep Johnson just "because".
AVP needs to be beat out of his job, and 2 days of rookie camp ain't going to do it. Right now his salary is not an issue.
DraftBoy
07-26-2003, 10:26 PM
I think GW, and Co. are gonne give Brown every chance to beat out Van Pelt.
Van Pelt makes a good clip board holder.
SoCalBillsFan
07-27-2003, 02:18 AM
Van Pelt is good for the locker room and experience. I don't care if he's 2 or 3, but I want him on the team.
I really think people are overrating johnson. THe guy sucks. I'd be very surprised if he made the team.
Jan Reimers
07-27-2003, 06:02 AM
Brown has very little game experience, and Johnson is a raw, untested, undrafted FA. I think, for this year at least, AVP stays and Johnson - providing he shows something - goes on the practice squad.
Originally posted by mypoorfriendme
super ball? anyways, i agree.
LMAO my!!!
Brown is more mobile, 7 years younger, VP is 33.
We don't, or shouldn't, hang onto players simply b/c they're "nice guys"! You retain those who would do the best job in relief, NOT those whom 'you would like to see do well.'
Originally posted by Jan Reimers
Brown has very little game experience, and Johnson is a raw, untested, undrafted FA. I think, for this year at least, AVP stays and Johnson - providing he shows something - goes on the practice squad.
JR, if every team used that logic, then there'd be a whole lot of great QBs who never would have started or gotten the chance. In fact, don't you think that all QBs at one point had "no experience."
:rolleyes:
;)
Jan Reimers
07-27-2003, 08:22 AM
I believe we need more experience at backup QB than a duo of Brown and Johnson would provide. We seem to be taking a long look at Brown as the number 2 guy, which is good, and if Johnson winds up on the PS, we will have 2 younger guys for the future. I simply feel it's at least a year early to jetison AVP.
I agree with Wys on the one point there, no QB's in the league would ever emerge if they always kept the good old boys.
Jan Reimers
07-27-2003, 09:37 AM
Let's say we keep DB, TB and Johnson, and - God forbid - DB goes down. We then have TB, Johnson and ?. Is anyone comfortable with that? If you are, stop griping about depth problems at other positions.
It makes far more sense to keep DB, TB and AVP, with Johnson on the PS - for this season. Not forever. Johnson can develop on the PS, and perhaps be a viable 3rd QB candidate next year. Why the rush to axe AVP?
BTW - and I hope I'm wrong - I don't see our future QB in either Brown or Johnson.
I'm not "comfortable" w/ Drew in there!
I'd rather have Blake, Kerry Collins, or any number of other QBs.
The team is evaluating Brown as they say they are!
You, along w/ everyone else, seem to have no problem drinking the FO/partyline Koolaid when it suits your likes (i.e. Drew), so how about accepting that same standard when they are finished assessing Brown this preseason! If Drew's so marvelous, then you'd have to agree that they are top evaluators of QB talent, eh!
If anyone should be concerned, it should be me, not you.
Just an inane suggestion...
:D
SoCalBillsFan
07-27-2003, 11:51 AM
its not about the nice guys thing. It's about the fact that AVP is WAY BETTER than johnson! Way better!
From all reports I've heard, Brown looks unimpressive. Jason Johnson looks promising but is very raw. I say give Brown a lot of reps in pre-season, and if he doesn't look any better, cut him and go with AVP and Johnson as the backups. If it comes down to putting in the 3rd string QB, it's a hopeless situation anyways.
DraftBoy
07-27-2003, 01:00 PM
I honestly dont see a future in either Johnson, or Brown but I do see a lack of concentration in the doughboy as he looks now more like a LB than a QB. Im sorry but I dont want a Jared Lorenzen on this team. We will draft a QB in this years draft, and that will be the QB of the future, as for now I would feel comfortable with Brown, and Johnson as our backups. I have no confidence in AVP.
SoCalBillsFan
07-27-2003, 01:20 PM
you are nuts if you think that because AVP has gained some weight he is worse than Jason Johnson. Jason Johnson SUCKS. Has anyon else seen the guy play? THis is camp fodder.
Originally posted by SoCalBillsFan
its not about the nice guys thing. It's about the fact that AVP is WAY BETTER than johnson! Way better!
How on earth do you know SoCal?
Have you seen Johnson play in the pros? He's a rookie for cryin' out loud!
Seems like his collegiate accolades aren't too bad.
http://www.buffalobills.com/team/playerpage.cfm?player_id=81554
Van Pelt is not good no matter how you slice it, so to say that another is worse than VP is essentially to say that "other" completely sucks! I simply do not know how you can make such an assessment based on nothing.
BTW, here's VP's careers:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/VanPAl00.htm
Other than sheer favoratism what on earth are all those wanting to keep him here thinking about???
He didn't play any better than RJ did in '01!!! He even had the "healthy" OL!
eyedog
07-27-2003, 02:47 PM
You would rather have Blake than Bledsoe Wys ? Oh brother. Don't even bother answering that question.
TB is gonna get every chance to beat out AVP in camp, and if capable AVP could very well get the ax. You don't pay third string qb's a million dollars.
They will not keep four qb's. Johnson is nothing more than a training camp arm.
I also wouldn't be surprised to see them pick up a qb later in camp that has been cut from another team.
justasportsfan
07-27-2003, 02:51 PM
From what I've seen at camp today, no way he get's cut. He looked a lot better than Travis Brown out there. Then again things could change. I'm sure if they asked VP to renegociate, that wouldn't be a problem.
eyedog
07-27-2003, 02:58 PM
Camp practice is important, but the pre=season games will tell the tale with TB. Thats were he will have to prove it or not.
justasportsfan
07-27-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by eyedog
Camp practice is important, but the pre=season games will tell the tale with TB. Thats were he will have to prove it or not.
This is why at this point in time, I don't think VP will be cut. TB hasn't shown he's ready.
DraftBoy
07-27-2003, 03:46 PM
AVP has done nothing to warrent his salary. At least lets save some cap room and cut this dying bird before he blows a game for us if Drew ever does go down. AVP is a waste of a roster spot. I would take Jason Johnson any day. To answer your question SoCal I have seen him play, on numerous occasions. He played for Arizona in the Pac-10. Granted he didnt show much against USC, but look at his surrounding cast, they're all bums, hell he should get a pat on the back for putting up the numbers he did with his crappy teammates.
venis2k1
07-27-2003, 04:00 PM
I would take a seasoned vet over a unproven rookie anyday when it comes to back up QB.
mybills
07-27-2003, 04:25 PM
Wow, lots of mixed opinions on this thread.
AVP is a better decision maker than Drew.
Drew has a better arm than AVP.
Brown's arm is almost as good as Drew's, but I'm not sure about his decision making.
I've heard nothing but good things about TB from professionals, so I don't know where all the negativity is coming from.
I haven't heard anything about this Johnson guy, but I couldn't possibly form my own opinion of him having not seen him play yet.
SoCalBillsFan
07-28-2003, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
How on earth do you know SoCal?
Have you seen Johnson play in the pros? He's a rookie for cryin' out loud!
Seems like his collegiate accolades aren't too bad.
http://www.buffalobills.com/team/playerpage.cfm?player_id=81554
I used wysonian logic wys. Against any team with a reasonable defense last year, he sucked. Wisconsin, North Texas, a bunch of pac-ten schools with crappy defenses (UCLA and Oregon State he SUCKED against.) He was good only against teams with bad defenses, ala your argument about bledsoe. And if he can't beat the best in college, how can he beat the best in the pros? (Ala your Chris Kelsay argument).
TO be honest, I havent analyzed him that much wys, i just looked over that link you gave. But i know he didn't do jack in college, didnt get drafted, and more importantly, that you dislike Van Pelt for whatever reason and wil say anything to get rid of him.
How could I know? Interesting that YOU would ask that, a guy who knows crowell sucks, that we should have drafted EJ henderson, etc. I know because I watch the Pac 10, i've seen the guy play, he wasn't all that great. I think AVP is better, I like that he has more experience in the NFL and in the system, is a team player, and to be honest I do think he's a capable backup.
TedMock
07-28-2003, 08:32 AM
I know nothing about Johnson at all. I love college football but PAC-10 isn't shown all that much out here. As far as AVP vs. TB....I love AVP just "because" but I could learn to love TB also. I support whatever players are on the team and I say Let them battle it out. This is pro-football, may the best man win.
justasportsfan
07-28-2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by Winfield_26
AVP has done nothing to warrent his salary. At least lets save some cap room and cut this dying bird before he blows a game for us if Drew ever does go down. AVP is a waste of a roster spot. I would take Jason Johnson any day. To answer your question SoCal I have seen him play, on numerous occasions. He played for Arizona in the Pac-10. Granted he didnt show much against USC, but look at his surrounding cast, they're all bums, hell he should get a pat on the back for putting up the numbers he did with his crappy teammates.
Didn't AVP beat Mrino's nos. in college? I guess we won't know if Johnson will be any good in the NFL for quite sometime. You could tell at TC he was the yungun. He did look like a rookie out there.
BillsNick
07-28-2003, 09:01 AM
AVP will definitely be on the avtive roster, whether it's #2 or #3. He may not be Frank Reich, but he is a quality veteran "backup" QB. I have a feeling Brown may push for no 2, but Johnson's only spot on the team will be on the PS.
Originally posted by SoCalBillsFan
I used wysonian logic wys. Against any team with a reasonable defense last year, he sucked. Wisconsin, North Texas, a bunch of pac-ten schools with crappy defenses (UCLA and Oregon State he SUCKED against.) He was good only against teams with bad defenses, ala your argument about bledsoe. And if he can't beat the best in college, how can he beat the best in the pros? (Ala your Chris Kelsay argument).
TO be honest, I havent analyzed him that much wys, i just looked over that link you gave. But i know he didn't do jack in college, didnt get drafted, and more importantly, that you dislike Van Pelt for whatever reason and wil say anything to get rid of him.
How could I know? Interesting that YOU would ask that, a guy who knows crowell sucks, that we should have drafted EJ henderson, etc. I know because I watch the Pac 10, i've seen the guy play, he wasn't all that great. I think AVP is better, I like that he has more experience in the NFL and in the system, is a team player, and to be honest I do think he's a capable backup.
Well, by that logic then SoCal, you'd better admit that Drew's highly overrated. There are several QBs in the league who did about what Drew did, only w/ far lesser talent around them. Many did more w/ less too!
But you can't compare college to pro. Look at the failures: Leaf, Schuler, all the FLA QBs, Weihnke, other FSU QBs, the list goes on and on! And look where most of the starters in the NFL have come from!
Warner, Garcia, Favre was nothing special in college, was Gannon raved about (IDK), how 'bout Bulger?
As to restructuring VP, it won't happen. He's got to make vet min for his years in the league, which isn't much less than what he's getting now. ~ $750K.
But SoCal, if you're going to bust on a guy like Johnson simply b/c he only put up average #s in school, then at least consider what he had to work with.
Here's a similar comparison:
Drew averaged 1.5 TDs/game, and that drops off dramatically to ~ 1/game after his 7 v. Minn. and Det., also 1 INT/game.
Drew had Moulds, Price, Reed, Henry, Centers, JR, and an excellent OL.
Jeff Blakes avgd. 1.3 TD/game, 1.1 INT/game, and had Jamal Lewis, Stokely, Taylor, and Heap, a rookie TE, clearly not nearly what Drew had. Yet, "per-game" results were about equal!
Kerry Collins avgd. 1.2 TDs/game, < 1 INT/game, and he had Barber, Toomer, and the rookie Shockey and no one else.
Rodney Peete avgd. 1 TD/game, 1 INT/game, and he had what, Lamar Smith, Muhammed and Smith as WRs and no decent TE to speak of!
When you look at Drew's performance over the last 10 games, he's no better than these guys, literally! In fact, he's worse. The primary difference being that he had everything that any QB to ever play the game could ask for! For the life of me, I cannot imagine any one of those QB's numbers improving dramatically if they had "Drew's toolbox" last season!!!
Drew should have put up 30+ TDs easily on 4,400 yards and 610 attempts last year. He certainly shouldn't have concentrated nearly as many INTs as he did last year in 7 games as he did if he's any good.
We'll find out soon on all these guys. I have little confidence that VP can play w/o making the same TOs that Drew does. He's not much quicker on his feet, believe it or not. He doesn't have enough arm strength to make you confident on his sideline "lobs." He doesn't even have more TDs than INTs during his career. He didn't play well when given the opportunity.
I don't see him being kept on as a #3 at $750K. There must be a dozen QBs each year that are available in FAcy that are as good if not better than VP. Other than college, he's done nothing in the NFL. He's 33, there's not much reason to keep him on if he can't make #2.
eyedog
07-28-2003, 11:04 AM
I agree if AVP is not the #2 he is in big trouble for making this team.
Heap is not a rookie tight end, and he is also on of the better te's in the league. shockey was a roookie and he was and is the best tight end in football today.
SoCalBillsFan
07-28-2003, 11:28 AM
like ive said all along...Drew is overrated, but not by as much as you claim, Im glad we have him, i think he can get the job done. He is good enough, and he provides a threat because of physical skill.
But that isn't what this is about. this is about thefact that jason johnson is not better than AVP. That's why I keep AVP. I'll concede that there have been plenty of guys who eneded up being good that no one saw coming, but I just dont think johnson will be on. Maybe I'll be wrong, I'll leave it up to the coaches. My point is that Johnson will not be ANY help for 2, probably 3 years at least. Just MHO
clumping platelets
07-28-2003, 11:36 AM
What has Travis Brown done to prove he's worthy of #2 status? Not much.....
I would keep AVP for another year. He's a capable #2 and there isn't much, if any, FAs available that could come in at this time and help us if Bledsoe went down with an injury.
His cap numbers are not all they seem. He has incentives that, if he doesn't play, give the Bills a credit on the 2004 cap. So releasing him right now saves 750K on 2003 but Bills do not need the cap space and he would not save much on the 2004 cap because of acceleration of signing bonus and loss of the potential credit on incentives(NLTBE)
Keep AVP!!
justasportsfan
07-28-2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
We'll find out soon on all these guys. I have little confidence that VP can play w/o making the same TOs that Drew does. He's not much quicker on his feet, believe it or not. He doesn't have enough arm strength to make you confident on his sideline "lobs." He doesn't even have more TDs than INTs during his career. He didn't play well when given the opportunity.
But he has the confidence in TB :snicker:
TypicalBill
08-10-2003, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Van Pelt is not good no matter how you slice it, so to say that another is worse than VP is essentially to say that "other" completely sucks! I simply do not know how you can make such an assessment based on nothing.
I dont know... Van Pelt looked really sharp yesterday
Billz_fan
08-10-2003, 11:30 AM
:lol:
Here we go,n lets start dragging the river :D
TypicalBill
08-10-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Billz_fan
:lol:
Here we go,n lets start dragging the river :D
i wonder what you mean :gag:
Originally posted by justasportsfan
Didn't AVP beat Mrino's nos. in college? I guess we won't know if Johnson will be any good in the NFL for quite sometime. You could tell at TC he was the yungun. He did look like a rookie out there.
Didn't RJ beat all kinds of USC records, some of Drew's and some other PAC 10 records?
:D
justasportsfan
08-10-2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Didn't RJ beat all kinds of USC records, some of Drew's and some other PAC 10 records?
:D
The only records of Drew's that Rob (please do not use "RJ" :D ) broke "in the NFL" were no. of sacks and no. of injuries.
Come to think of it there's more. no of teams played for and fooling a teasm into giving him millions of 444 for nothing.
Originally posted by TypicalBill
I dont know... Van Pelt looked really sharp yesterday
Well yeah, he was 2 of 2 for 46 yards.
Let's start him! Based on that, if he drops back 500 times, he'll be 500 for 500 for 11,500 yards.
:D
QB rating of infinity...
LOL
TypicalBill
08-10-2003, 12:12 PM
LMAO!! so i guess stats only apply on Drew :rolleyes:
:D
justasportsfan
08-10-2003, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Well yeah, he was 2 of 2 for 46 yards.
Let's start him! Based on that, if he drops back 500 times, he'll be 500 for 500 for 11,500 yards.
:D
Okay wys. looks like your trying to diss AVP because you were mistaken about TB. That time AVP played was better than TB entire time on the field.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.