If I'm reading this right, Sammy is condoning Kaep's behavior

[Skooby]

Couple of quick points, Doug Whaley is the only Black GM in the NFL and the Owner Kim Pegula is Korean. So what's up with Sammy ??

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/29/bills-sammy-watkins-on-49ers-colin-kaepernick-national-anthem/

[BillsImpossible]

Couple of quick points, Doug Whaley is the only Black GM in the NFL and the Owner Kim Pegula is Korean. So what's up with Sammy ??

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/29/bills-sammy-watkins-on-49ers-colin-kaepernick-national-anthem/

He's not specifically condoning or condemning what Kap did, but he does support the idea of professional athletes speaking their voices on matters that concern them.

I don't agree with what Kaepernick did and I don't agree with what he says, but I do agree that we should and would all fight to defend his right to say what he's truly thinking.

[Skooby]

He's not specifically condoning or condemning what Kap did, but he does support the idea of professional athletes speaking their voices on matters that concern them.

I don't agree with what Kaepernick did and I don't agree with what he says, but I do agree that we should and would all fight to defend his right to say what he's truly thinking.

Showing disrespect to the people that deserve the most respect is not a way to make a point in my opinion. Donate a majority of your fortune to those you claim to represent with your protests, then I'll buy what your selling. Since that hasn't and will never happen, Good luck.

[Turf]

It's amazing how the media controls peoples minds isn't it. Someone ought to protest that ****.

[YardRat]

Why shouldn't he condone it?

[Mace]

I sort of don't mind free speech. I sort of mind when people lose the context. Does a protest insult more people than it honors ? Kaepernick has never stood for dialogue where he could have, like maybe flying to a hot spot and expressing solidarity. The national anthem, and I'll never be confused with a right wing conservative, honors the purpose of the point he claims to be protesting, and remembers everyone who tangibly fought for it. There are black cops and servicemen fighting to uphold what he refuses to respect, they aren't lackeys, we're past that.

Free speech and protest is fine. But he's protesting a system that learned to empower the disempowered through blood and pain. I don't recall Dr. Martin Luther King refusing to be proud of a country he was fighting to change. He was very proud of the nation and what it could be, and meant to change it with his presence, words and process.

Kaepernick, becoming a bad QB, is trying to make it harder for SF to cut him. Watkins, needs to grow up and learn context. That's understandable, he's an empowered pro athlete with money and a safe roster spot.

Kaepernick, well, he must not be as smart or gutsy as I thought or he'd have flown to the hotpoints, maybe he's not grown up some either. Maybe he had a moment of clarity trying to save his job, I don't know.

But freedom of speech and freedom of expression are still just that.

[BillsImpossible]

I firmly agree that everyone has the right to be an *******.

[Shady25]

Sammy is saying he could care less.

[Skooby]

Sammy is saying he could care less.
Then why is he talking ?

[GreedoII]

Couple of quick points, Doug Whaley is the only Black GM in the NFL and the Owner Kim Pegula is Korean. So what's up with Sammy ??

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/29/bills-sammy-watkins-on-49ers-colin-kaepernick-national-anthem/

Who cares. This is overblown as always. he has the right so he can do what he wants. He didn't do anything criminal. The patriotism concept is so overrated and shoved in our faces anyway to the point of nausea. the military crap too...it'a all propaganda anyway...so this stuff doesn't bother me. i just want to watch football games because it's my damn right and it's my damn right not to care about stupid meaningless social issues.

[Buffalogic]

Who cares what player A thinks about player B? I don't care what they think at all really. They are paid to play football, not ponder the state of the country.

[gebobs]

Showing disrespect to the people that deserve the most respect is not a way to make a point in my opinion.

Who is that?

[Skooby]

Who is that?

The song was written by Francis Scott Key after he saw the flag was still flying. He wrote it inspired by brave Americans fighting for our freedoms, like the ability to sit on the bench and pout.

http://m.american-historama.org/1801-1828-evolution/star-spangled-banner-lyrics.htm

A Gold star Mom was on TV last night and she said when they handed her a flag for her Son that gave his life, it held a higher meaning to her. People should respect that and honor those who serve.

[Ingtar33]

Couple of quick points, Doug Whaley is the only Black GM in the NFL and the Owner Kim Pegula is Korean. So what's up with Sammy ??

http://billswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/29/bills-sammy-watkins-on-49ers-colin-kaepernick-national-anthem/

first of all lets keep this real.

->There is no issue with an athlete speaking his mind about social issues. why you'd make an issue of sammy watkins simply stating this point is beyond me.

now as for Kaepernick I have my own thoughts on that one. Set aside his actions for a moment. And look at what he's saying. First of all have any of you listen to Kaep before? He's a world class flake. He's about as connected to world events as a Martian would be, and has about as much interest in "real life" as a martian would as well. He is the last person in the world i'd expect to talk about social justice. So when he had his little protest and talked about it in the media i was NOT SURPRISED at all that Kaepernick could not enunciate in the slightest what exactly he was protesting. Kaep's protest is so shallow and ill thought out that it looks contrived to prevent the 49'ers from cutting him. A cynical attempt to speak vaguely about some buzzwords he heard at some cocktail party in order to make himself sound like he's taking a principled stand about issues I doubt he's ever thought about once in his life in order to make his impending Cut look like it's motivated by politics not football. I would not be surprised at all if this was something thought up by his agent, since Kaep stands to lose a lot of money if he's cut.

THAT'S what I find most offensive about Kaepernick's behavior, that it looks like a cynical attempt to keep his job by spouting some buzzwords he clearly doesn't know what they mean to make himself look like a martyr if the 49ers cut him and pressure them not to. It's about the most callous and manipulative action I've seen an professional athlete take in a long time.

Athletes can talk about social issues. They can take controversial stands. As long as they can take the damage to their "branding" they're welcome to it. Remember, the reason why athletes like Jordan and Tiger Woods never took a social justice stance on issues, is precisely because they chose money and their brand over it. Some of those stands athletes take will likely offend people. I'm sure plenty of people were offended by Kaepernick sitting down. But what irritates me more then the sitting down during the anthem is what I think is his clearly cynical attempt to use these issues to keep his job. A sit down to prevent being fired is what he's doing. No one in the press is talking about it means it's working.

[DraftBoy]

first of all lets keep this real.

->There is no issue with an athlete speaking his mind about social issues. why you'd make an issue of sammy watkins simply stating this point is beyond me.

now as for Kaepernick I have my own thoughts on that one. Set aside his actions for a moment. And look at what he's saying. First of all have any of you listen to Kaep before? He's a world class flake. He's about as connected to world events as a Martian would be, and has about as much interest in "real life" as a martian would as well. He is the last person in the world i'd expect to talk about social justice. So when he had his little protest and talked about it in the media i was NOT SURPRISED at all that Kaepernick could not enunciate in the slightest what exactly he was protesting. Kaep's protest is so shallow and ill thought out that it looks contrived to prevent the 49'ers from cutting him. A cynical attempt to speak vaguely about some buzzwords he heard at some cocktail party in order to make himself sound like he's taking a principled stand about issues I doubt he's ever thought about once in his life in order to make his impending Cut look like it's motivated by politics not football. I would not be surprised at all if this was something thought up by his agent, since Kaep stands to lose a lot of money if he's cut.

THAT'S what I find most offensive about Kaepernick's behavior, that it looks like a cynical attempt to keep his job by spouting some buzzwords he clearly doesn't know what they mean to make himself look like a martyr if the 49ers cut him and pressure them not to. It's about the most callous and manipulative action I've seen an professional athlete take in a long time.

Athletes can talk about social issues. They can take controversial stands. As long as they can take the damage to their "branding" they're welcome to it. Remember, the reason why athletes like Jordan and Tiger Woods never took a social justice stance on issues, is precisely because they chose money and their brand over it. Some of those stands athletes take will likely offend people. I'm sure plenty of people were offended by Kaepernick sitting down. But what irritates me more then the sitting down during the anthem is what I think is his clearly cynical attempt to use these issues to keep his job. A sit down to prevent being fired is what he's doing. No one in the press is talking about it means it's working.

While I get your point, let's be clear about what this is. What you're calling a little protest, was something Kaep was doing by himself silently and not drawing any attention to it until somebody spotted it from the press box in the 3rd preseason game. I don't think that referring to what he is doing as him trying to become a martyr is accurate and if anything its hyperbolic.

Whether this is a business ploy, a personal change in philosophy, or just a temporary mindset from a guy who has well established maturity issues, at the end of the day the action in and of itself was small and private until we all decided to make it into the biggest deal the world has ever seen.

[Ingtar33]

an nfl player sitting down during the national anthem in front of 70k people and 20 tv cameras is not a private protest. (they line up on the sideline for the anthem)

It will stick out pretty obviously.

[DraftBoy]

an nfl player sitting down during the national anthem in front of 70k people and 20 tv cameras is not a private protest. (they line up on the sideline for the anthem)

It will stick out pretty obviously.

I'm pretty sure he said that he had been doing it all pre-season without a word to anybody and then some site verified it.

[Ingtar33]

I'm pretty sure he said that he had been doing it all pre-season without a word to anybody and then some site verified it.

he was in the luxury boxes, he wasn't on the sideline for those games.

again, i'd be willing to listen to his point if he had one. he can't even enunciate what he's protesting, which makes him look like a fool in my eyes.

[DraftBoy]

he was in the luxury boxes, he wasn't on the sideline for those games.

again, i'd be willing to listen to his point if he had one. he can't even enunciate what he's protesting, which makes him look like a fool in my eyes.

Ok...and?

Are we really boiling down this discussion down to the fact that you don't like that he doesn't speak with enough enunciation? Really? If that's all you're left clinging to then you don't really have a point.

[feldspar]

Then why is he talking ?

He was probably asked. After all, this is big news across the football league. It's gone viral. I guess that's the world we live in. It's annoying to me.

All I hear Watkins saying is that Kaepernick has a right to stand up for what he believes in. He's right about that.

[gebobs]

The song was written by Francis Scott Key after he saw the flag was still flying. He wrote it inspired by brave Americans fighting for our freedoms, like the ability to sit on the bench and pout.

It's a national, anthem. It's not a Department of Defense anthem. Sorry, but if people in or associated with the military are offended, that's their problem. What he's doing has nothing to do with them regardless of the loose connection between the military and the anthem's lyrics (which by the way is a metaphor for liberty and freedom and not to be taken so literally).


A Gold star Mom was on TV last night and she said when they handed her a flag for her Son that gave his life, it held a higher meaning to her. People should respect that and honor those who serve.

So when people decide to protest, should they check with the local VFW and Gold Star Moms to see what's not going to offend them? Who else should they check with or is it just the military that gets this exalted reverence?

[Skooby]

he was in the luxury boxes, he wasn't on the sideline for those games.

again, i'd be willing to listen to his point if he had one. he can't even enunciate what he's protesting, which makes him look like a fool in my eyes.

He is a mumbling fool, completely clueless. Whoever gave this guy $114 Million contract needs to be hung.

[Skooby]

It's a national, anthem. It's not a Department of Defense anthem.Sorry, but if people in or associated with the military are offended, that's their problem. What he's doing has nothing to do with them regardless of the loose connection between the military and the anthem's lyrics.



So when people decide to protest, should they check with the local VFW and Gold Star Moms to see what's not going to offend them? Who else should they check with or is it just the military that gets this exalted reverence?

So that's what you took from everything I said ?? Really ?? Why do they put the huge flag out and sing the anthem ?? Is it to play a game before the game or honor those who have sacrificed ?? Get over yourself man, get a clue.

[gebobs]

So that's what you took from everything I said ?? Really ??
Indeed. That is just what you said.


Why do they put the huge flag out and sing the anthem ?? Is it to play a game before the game or honor those who have sacrificed ??
Obviously, I don't necessarily agree with either point of view. Personally, it's an expression of national unity.

[Skooby]

Indeed. That is just what you said.


Obviously, I don't necessarily agree with either point of view. Personally, it's an expression of national unity.

Is the ISIS flag a social movement ?

[Novacane]

So if he gets cut should we bring him in?

[Mr. Pink]

The song was written by Francis Scott Key after he saw the flag was still flying. He wrote it inspired by brave Americans fighting for our freedoms, like the ability to sit on the bench and pout.

http://m.american-historama.org/1801-1828-evolution/star-spangled-banner-lyrics.htm

A Gold star Mom was on TV last night and she said when they handed her a flag for her Son that gave his life, it held a higher meaning to her. People should respect that and honor those who serve.

And it's sung to the music of an English drinking song.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ydAIdVKv84g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Seriously about the topic, I don't know why anyone gives a crap that Kaep sat during the anthem. He wasn't the first and he certainly won't be the last.

[chernobylwraiths]

Sammy is saying he could care less.

how much less?

[gebobs]

Seriously about the topic, I don't know why anyone gives a crap that Kaep sat during the anthem. He wasn't the first and he certainly won't be the last.

I agree. I don't really care why he's doing it. And if people want to disagree or are offended by it for whatever reason, that's their opinion. I just want to remind people that this is constitutionally protected free speech, just as their criticism is. But calling for him to leave the country is a bit beyond the pale, Mr. Trump.

[chernobylwraiths]

And it's sung to the music of an English drinking song.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ydAIdVKv84g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Seriously about the topic, I don't know why anyone gives a crap that Kaep sat during the anthem. He wasn't the first and he certainly won't be the last.

I wonder if people realize that the Star Spangled Banner has 4 versus, of which everyone only knows the first. And the third verse mentions slaves. And that Francis Scott Key was a slave owner and staunch supporter of slavery. At least that is what the article I read said. I knew it was only verse one and don't know the other versus. Verified that the third verse mentions slaves.

[chernobylwraiths]

I wonder if people realize that the Star Spangled Banner has 4 versus, of which everyone only knows the first. And the third verse mentions slaves. And that Francis Scott Key was a slave owner and staunch supporter of slavery. At least that is what the article I read said. I knew it was only verse one and don't know the other versus. Verified that the third verse mentions slaves.

I only care what Kanye West, the entire Kardashian clan including Caitlyn, and Taylor Swift think about this.

[gebobs]

Is the ISIS flag a social movement ?

Is the Canadian flag a symbol of military pride?

[DraftBoy]

Why do they put the huge flag out and sing the anthem ?? Is it to play a game before the game or honor those who have sacrificed ?? Get over yourself man, get a clue.

Technically speaking the way the national anthem is sung and the crowd cheering it are both contrary to what was originally intended and can also be considered disrespectful. Maybe you should learn a little bit about the history of what it is you're doing before you start telling other people to get a clue.

[gebobs]

I wonder if people realize that the Star Spangled Banner has 4 versus, of which everyone only knows the first. And the third verse mentions slaves. And that Francis Scott Key was a slave owner and staunch supporter of slavery. At least that is what the article I read said. I knew it was only verse one and don't know the other versus. Verified that the third verse mentions slaves.

Wow...I didn't know any of that. Fascinating!

Indeed, as the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, he prosecuted several abolitionists for libel and sedition. On the other hand, he represented some slaves in their lawsuits to win freedom. Pro bono at that. He also worked to enforce the will of a friend who freed 400 slaves upon his death and to provide them with land once thee will was formally executed.

[feldspar]

It would be great and ironic if Kaepernick were a Patriot...you know, playing for New England. At least then I could get a few good zingers in. But this is not entertaining to me as it stands. I follow football to be entertained, not to have it be a springboard for these types of discussions.

[chernobylwraiths]

Wow...I didn't know any of that. Fascinating!

Indeed, as the US Attorney for the District of Columbia, he prosecuted several abolitionists for libel and sedition. On the other hand, he represented some slaves in their lawsuits to win freedom. Pro bono at that. He also worked to enforce the will of a friend who freed 400 slaves upon his death and to provide them with land once thee will was formally executed.

I didn't go into his history. The country back then had some great men and did some great things. But even great men don't always do the right thing as evidenced by many of our founding fathers owning humans. It's good to know that he wasn't a total dirtbag. Ha. I always thought America the Beautiful should be our national anthem though.

[Skooby]

Is the Canadian flag a symbol of military pride?

Touche.

[gebobs]

I always thought America the Beautiful should be our national anthem though.

I agree. What other country has such overtly militaristic metaphors in their anthem? Heck, the anthem of Hitler's homeland is about flowers.

How about This Land is Your Land by Woody Guthrie though I think the following lyrics should be kept private like the third verse of the SSB.


As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?


Or how about this one? I think the Party Party might go for it.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DPBLfzTPCDc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[gebobs]

It would be great and ironic if Kaepernick were a Patriot...you know, playing for New England. At least then I could get a few good zingers in. But this is not entertaining to me as it stands. I follow football to be entertained, not to have it be a springboard for these types of discussions.

Yeah, the thread should be in Bufftp.

[Bill Cody]

random thoughts:

it's cool that in the US Kaep has every right to do what he did, in that sense I fully support him

Do I think what he's doing is disrespectful? Yes Offensive? For me, yes. Call me old school on this. Utterly pointless in terms of his stated protest? Yes. Sure people are talking but will it change anyone's behavior? Nope.

I think he has some balls to do what's doing, I'll give him that. But what he's objecting to is racism in America and he won't stand for the anthem until the problem is fixed, good luck with that. He states that the 2 Presidential candidates are unqualified to hold office so who is he appealing to for change? How does disrespecting the flag in any way advance his agenda? Is this the extent of his contribution, sitting for the anthem? If so, pretty weak. What's next, if America doesn't stop being racist "I swear to God I'll hold my breath until I turn blue"? I respect anyone with a point of view that is willing to stand up for it but I give him low marks for his specific actions. If/when he gets cut there will be a debate over what impact the protest had on it. Needless to say being controversial never helps your cause as an athlete.

[Night Train]

Perform on Sunday. I don't care about their stance on anything.

They are football players. Mercenaries. Cattle. There statements register a Zero with me. Most have the IQ of a gnat.

I'm also a Vet who did some long tours in the Navy.

I just roll my eyes and consider the source.

Move on.

[Mr. Pink]

I wonder if people realize that the Star Spangled Banner has 4 versus, of which everyone only knows the first. And the third verse mentions slaves. And that Francis Scott Key was a slave owner and staunch supporter of slavery. At least that is what the article I read said. I knew it was only verse one and don't know the other versus. Verified that the third verse mentions slaves.

For anyone who doesn't know the anthem actually has 4 verses, or is curious what the other 3 verses actually are.

Here's a link to the lyrics...

http://amhistory.si.edu/starspangledbanner/pdf/ssb_lyrics.pdf

[gebobs]

For anyone who doesn't know the anthem actually has 4 verses, or is curious what the other 3 verses actually are.

Here's a link to the lyrics...

http://amhistory.si.edu/starspangledbanner/pdf/ssb_lyrics.pdf

There is a fifth stanza too, written by Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr. during the War of Northern Aggression...


When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!
And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the brave.

Here is the third stanza with the reference to slaves by Key...


And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country, should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave,
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.