We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

[X-Era]

The Pats win. They have had changes in their OL. Yet they still win. So it works for them. But we constantly have this criticism that we are doing it wrong and not investing enough in the OL. Let's compare:

Glenn- 2nd round
Cog- FA
Wood- 1st round
Miller- 3rd round
Henderson- 7th round, Mills- FA

Kujo- 2nd round
C Rich- 5th round (cut now)

Solder- 1st round
Kline- UDFA
Andrews- UDFA
Cooper- Trade
Cannon- 5th round

Mason- 4th round
Karras- 6th round
Fleming- 4th round

Let's get the arguments out of the way:
1. The Pats win so it doesn't matter what they do
2. They have Brady and Belicheck so it doesn't matter what they do

I'd offer:

1. Saying we ignore the OL in the draft is just plain false
2. A perennial winner puts about the same amount of attention to their OL from the draft
3. That same winner has way less draft picks starting
4. The Bills are just as good at landing good players through the draft on the OL as the Pats

It begs the questions:

Is it totally fine to not heavily draft OL and still build a winner?

I think we draft OL with the same frequency that we have been and if we have the same number of players turn out to be good we are doing just fine... I think we are building the OL correctly. They won't all be studs... Kujo, Cyril make that point. We probably will draft a few more next year. And in the past 10 years we would have totaled about as many picks on the OL as a perennial winner like the Pats.

We're not doing it wrong.

[Jaybird]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

Ya their QB play just might be a little factor

[X-Era]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

Ya their QB play just might be a little factor

That didn't take long.

And we've invested more on the starting OL... Doesn't compensate?

[X-Era]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

If not the Pats, who is the model? What team should we emulate? How many draft picks are they starting?

Tennessee gave up the most sacks per game at 3.4, Bills were 2.6 (22nd best), Pat were 2.3 (19th best)... Team giving up the least sacks per game? LA Rams at 1.1

Titans have:

Lewan- 1st round
Spain- UDFA
Jones- FA
Warmack- 1st round
Conklin- Rookie 1st round

Rams have:

Robinson- 1st round
Wichmann- 6th round
Barnes- FA
Brown- 3rd round
Saffold- 2nd round (2010)

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-per-game?date=2016-02-08

[justasportsfan]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

Ya their QB play just might be a little factor

Plus they lucked out on BB. The greatest HC-Qb combination IMO .

[Mr. Pink]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

It's not even their QB. A lot of their plays are quick hits, quick slant to Edelman over the middle, screen to a RB, hot read at the line.

This isn't to say Brady doesn't take a lot of sacks either, as among active players he's the second most sacked QB in the game today...11th all time.

But if your o-line struggles in pass pro, you can run a variation of the WCO and "hide" their flaws.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

Plus they lucked out on BB. The greatest HC-Qb combination IMO .

Otto Graham/Paul Brown beg to differ.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

I don't think you should be using the current O-Line for the Pats for this example. They were their worst unit last year and probably cost them a Superbowl. Belichick had to convince his previously retired O-line coach to come back and work for him this offseason.

Historically, when I think of the Pats O-Lineman during this dynasty, these are the names that come to my mind:

Matt Light - 2nd Round
Damien Woody - 1st Round
Dan Koppen - 5th Round
Logan Mankins - 1st Round
Stephen Neal - Undrafted
Nick Kaczur - 3rd Round
Sebastian Vollmer - 2nd Round
Dan Connelly - Undrafted (Free agent pickup, was cut by Jacksonville after his 2nd year)
Nate Solder - 1st Round

There's probably a couple guys I'm forgetting. But sure, you can get good talent from late round picks or undrafted picks. I'm not really sure that's your point though. 2/3 of those guys were drafted in the 1st 3 rounds, though.

I don't think the Bills problem is a lack of trying. It's just a lack of finding the talented guys. I don't think our O-line is terrible, but I sure think it could be improved. I feel like we're in the same boat as every team in the NFL though, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. Everyone wants to improve their O-line.

I also don't care where the guys come from, they could be undrafted, high draft picks, low draft picks, trades, free agency, or whatever. It's all about the talent they put on the field, not the effort they make, or where they find the guys. No one cared that Jason Peters was undrafted.

[X-Era]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

Plus they lucked out on BB. The greatest HC-Qb combination IMO .

Excuse #2. I don't think we can totally ignore their OL and investment in it just because they have Brady and Belicheck.

[X-Era]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

I don't think you should be using the current O-Line for the Pats for this example. They were their worst unit last year and probably cost them a Superbowl. Belichick had to convince his previously retired O-line coach to come back and work for him this offseason.

Historically, when I think of the Pats O-Lineman during this dynasty, these are the names that come to my mind:

Matt Light - 2nd Round
Damien Woody - 1st Round
Dan Koppen - 5th Round
Logan Mankins - 1st Round
Stephen Neal - Undrafted
Nick Kaczur - 3rd Round
Sebastian Vollmer - 2nd Round
Dan Connelly - Undrafted (Free agent pickup, was cut by Jacksonville after his 2nd year)
Nate Solder - 1st Round

There's probably a couple guys I'm forgetting. But sure, you can get good talent from late round picks or undrafted picks. I'm not really sure that's your point though. 2/3 of those guys were drafted in the 1st 3 rounds, though.

I don't think the Bills problem is a lack of trying. It's just a lack of finding the talented guys. I don't think our O-line is terrible, but I sure think it could be improved. I feel like we're in the same boat as every team in the NFL though, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions. Everyone wants to improve their O-line.

I also don't care where the guys come from, they could be undrafted, high draft picks, low draft picks, trades, free agency, or whatever. It's all about the talent they put on the field, not the effort they make, or where they find the guys. No one cared that Jason Peters was undrafted.

I absolutely don't care where the players come from. It's probably my biggest point. It doesn't have to be the draft.

The Pats have made plenty of picks throughout the years. We have too. This regime has done a good job on the OL in my opinion. Previous regimes missed on players like Mike Williams, etc...

We've spent a comparable amount of picks and money to the other teams.

[OpIv37]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

It doesn't matter who you emulate if you make poor choices. We can draft OL as much or more than the Pats, but if the guys we draft aren't good, it doesn't matter. There's a difference between doing the right thing and doing the thing correctly.

[justasportsfan]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

Excuse #2. I don't think we can totally ignore their OL and investment in it just because they have Brady and Belicheck.

not saying we should ignore the ol but a great HC and a great Qb is better than building an OL with all 1st rounders. Someones has to place those players in situations to succeed.

[X-Era]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

More data... The Bills are 18th in the league for offensive line spending at 15.7% of their cap. Pats are 7th with 20.9%. Titans are 23rd with 14%. Raiders are #1 with 24%

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/offensive-line/

Raiders were 16th in pass yards and 28th in rush yards

[X-Era]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

It doesn't matter who you emulate if you make poor choices. We can draft OL as much or more than the Pats, but if the guys we draft aren't good, it doesn't matter. There's a difference between doing the right thing and doing the thing correctly.

So you will make the argument that can't be proven that our players blow vs. other teams players?

I see a pretty similar investment in money and picks from us and our players are playing adequately.

We don't need to spend more. We don't need to draft more. And I feel we don't need significant upgrades. I think if you look around the league we're on par.

We should spend some picks in the next few years to push backup spots and maybe land a starter. But it isn't our biggest need area and we aren't doing it wrong.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Re: We've invested more draft picks into our starting OL than the Pats have...

I absolutely don't care where the players come from. It's probably my biggest point. It doesn't have to be the draft.

The Pats have made plenty of picks throughout the years. We have too. This regime has done a good job on the OL in my opinion. Previous regimes missed on players like Mike Williams, etc...

We've spent a comparable amount of picks and money to the other teams.

I agree that our line is better than most give it credit for. It's hard to argue that the league's best rushing offense had a terrible offensive line. You could probably argue that it's a mix between an average line and a great at scrambling QB, but you can't say that our line is crap.

The only way to know for sure is to watch the game. There are so many variables that come into play that you can't just go by stats alone to prove anything.