Well at least we're not Cleveland

[Bill Cody]

The hardest thing to do in football by far is to find a franchise QB. We're not exactly covered in glory on this subject but damn the Browns make the Bills front office look like a Mensa meeting. First they sign RG3 who is absolutely terrible and pretend he's not. Then they trade out of the 2nd spot where they could have had Wentz because, well, they have RG3. Now the word is they're "very concerned about RG3". Apparently he's regressed even further, holds on to the ball and get this, in year 5 in the league "can't read a defense". Beautiful.

Just trying to cheer folks up that need cheering, things can always be worse, we could be the Browns.

[TacklingDummy]

Bills 16 seasons without making the playoffs, the Browns 13.

[Forward_Lateral]

RGIII isn't terrible. I think he's going to do well this year, actually.

[Mr. Pink]

Mike Shanahan and the Redskins ruined his career.

He shouldn't have played in that playoff game that Shanny tossed him out to the wolves for no reason. And now he hasn't played in basically a year.

Of course, he's still gonna be learning, he's played like 2 years. Of course, he's rusty, he hasn't played in over a year.

Does that mean he's gonna be better, or even the same, as he was in his rookie year? No. But it's a possibility as the year goes on that he will.

Outside of his short comings during the preseason, he still averaged over 8ypa and only turned it over once.

[Joe Fo Sho]

"After trading away good punter, Browns realize they lack good punters"

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/02/after-trading-away-good-punter-browns-realize-they-lack-good-punters/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/02/after-trading-away-good-punter-browns-realize-they-lack-good-punters/)

[justasportsfan]

Mike Shanahan and the Redskins ruined his career.

He shouldn't have played in that playoff game that Shanny tossed him out to the wolves for no reason. And now he hasn't played in basically a year.

Of course, he's still gonna be learning, he's played like 2 years. Of course, he's rusty, he hasn't played in over a year.

Does that mean he's gonna be better, or even the same, as he was in his rookie year? No. But it's a possibility as the year goes on that he will.

Outside of his short comings during the preseason, he still averaged over 8ypa and only turned it over once.

Whatevet you need to tell yourself to feel better , browns fan. 😊

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Mike Shanahan and the Redskins ruined his career.

He shouldn't have played in that playoff game that Shanny tossed him out to the wolves for no reason. And now he hasn't played in basically a year.

Of course, he's still gonna be learning, he's played like 2 years. Of course, he's rusty, he hasn't played in over a year.

Does that mean he's gonna be better, or even the same, as he was in his rookie year? No. But it's a possibility as the year goes on that he will.

Outside of his short comings during the preseason, he still averaged over 8ypa and only turned it over once.

He didn't send him out there for "no reason," it was the 4th quarter of a one score playoff game!

[Mace]

RGIII isn't terrible. I think he's going to do well this year, actually.

I thought so too, but supposedly Hue Jackson is the one worried he can't read defenses.

[GingerP]

They have a ton of draft picks in the next couple seasons and their own pick should be high. They have some of building something.

[stuckincincy]

I thought so too, but supposedly Hue Jackson is the one worried he can't read defenses.

I saw a short clip of him a few years back. He's clueless.

[Mace]

I saw a short clip of him a few years back. He's clueless.

Griffin ? Yeah. He locks onto his primary, then immediately drops to nearest check down unless he freezes or thinks to buy time, which never works well because he has poor pocket awareness, then he thinks to run but it's usually too late. I read somewhere, forget now, he habitually drops back an extra step then never moves up into the pocket for some reason.

I thought Hue Jackson would be his redemption though.

[stuckincincy]

They have a ton of draft picks in the next couple seasons and their own pick should be high. They have some of building something.

Hopefully for them. They had 12 picks in 2015 and 14 picks this past draft.

[Skooby]

Bills 16 seasons without making the playoffs, the Browns 13.

This what it what it has comes down too, how pitiful is that ?

[Mace]

This what it what it has comes down too, how pitiful is that ?

Well technically 3 years more pitiful.

[stuckincincy]

Griffin ? Yeah. He locks onto his primary, then immediately drops to nearest check down unless he freezes or thinks to buy time, which never works well because he has poor pocket awareness, then he thinks to run but it's usually too late. I read somewhere, forget now, he habitually drops back an extra step then never moves up into the pocket for some reason.

I thought Hue Jackson would be his redemption though.

Jackson's not all that. He continued a long-standing CIN OC tradition - down by 7 at the half, abandon the run game and pass pass pass.

[Mace]

Jackson's not all that. He continued a long-standing CIN OC tradition - down by 7 at the half, abandon the run game and pass pass pass.

In preseason ? That's what preseason is for when you're working your QB's.

[stuckincincy]

In preseason ? That's what preseason is for when you're working your QB's.

No - nothing to do with preseason. Or working out a QB. I'm talking about his OC performance in regular season and in playoffs. In those, he was like his predecessors, Punkin' Head Gruden and the beyond-redemption Bob Bratkowski. They all dripped with panic when down by a score at the half and simply refused to use the decent run game their team had.

Such is not unique with CIN, of course. Most OCs (IMO) are ladies-in-waiting for that HC gig and the $$$.

[Mr. Miyagi]

The hardest thing to do in football by far is to find a franchise QB. We're not exactly covered in glory on this subject but damn the Browns make the Bills front office look like a Mensa meeting. First they sign RG3 who is absolutely terrible and pretend he's not. Then they trade out of the 2nd spot where they could have had Wentz because, well, they have RG3. Now the word is they're "very concerned about RG3". Apparently he's regressed even further, holds on to the ball and get this, in year 5 in the league "can't read a defense". Beautiful.

Just trying to cheer folks up that need cheering, things can always be worse, we could be the Browns.
At least Cleveland didn't trade away an arm and both legs to go up and draft this guy. They got him for nothing, other than losing out on Wentz. They should've just stayed at 2 and took Wentz anyway even with RG3.

[Ingtar33]

I thought so too, but supposedly Hue Jackson is the one worried he can't read defenses.

anyone who saw that graphic against the vikings last year, when he had 5 WRs running uncovered and he scrambled around and threw the ball away should have known the kid didn't have what it takes to read an NFL defense.

[swiper]

The hardest thing to do in football by far is to find a franchise QB. We're not exactly covered in glory on this subject but damn the Browns make the Bills front office look like a Mensa meeting. First they sign RG3 who is absolutely terrible and pretend he's not. Then they trade out of the 2nd spot where they could have had Wentz because, well, they have RG3. Now the word is they're "very concerned about RG3". Apparently he's regressed even further, holds on to the ball and get this, in year 5 in the league "can't read a defense". Beautiful.

Just trying to cheer folks up that need cheering, things can always be worse, we could be the Browns.

I thought this was all mute in Cleveland because they hired an offensive guru as coach who could fix RGIII.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

At least Cleveland didn't trade away an arm and both legs to go up and draft this guy. They got him for nothing, other than losing out on Wentz. They should've just stayed at 2 and took Wentz anyway even with RG3.

Why are people convinced Wentz is some can't miss prospect?

[swiper]

Why are people convinced Wentz is some can't miss prospect?

I don't think the example you cited said that. It just compares the two QB prospects. RGIII seems to have shown to be failed/flawed at this point. At least with Wentz there is still some potential there.

[Cleve]

We're not the worst team in the NFL. Small consolation given how many decades of losing and failure there have been.

[DesertFox24]

They are doing what we should have done years ago. Tank for a few years and finally draft a qb with a top 2 pick.

[sahlensguy]

I thought this was all mute in Cleveland because they hired an offensive guru as coach who could fix RGIII.

Its a mute point because their other sports franchise just won the basketball championship in glorious fashion.

[Mace]

They are doing what we should have done years ago. Tank for a few years and finally draft a qb with a top 2 pick.

Are you really saying that tanking for a few years is worth Goff, Wentz, Mariota, or Winston? I mean really ?

[DesertFox24]

Are you really saying that tanking for a few years is worth Goff, Wentz, Mariota, or Winston? I mean really ?

Not those guys but had we tanked in 2000s we could have had some better choices.

I am not a Watson fan by the way I want nothing to do with him.

[Mace]

Not those guys but had we tanked in 2000s we could have had some better choices.

I am not a Watson fan by the way I want nothing to do with him.

The thing is though, colleges now are kicking out unprepared spread QB's and teams are reaching for them.

You can arguably say Indy tanked for Luck one season (I think they were just really that bad under Caldwell and without The Peyton) and all it has let them do is feast on a weak division. They can't protect him well or win reliably outside their division. Giants with Eli were 6-10, Chargers with Rivers were 4-12, Atlanta 8-8 with Matt Ryan. Broncos won a title regardless of who their QB was.

We're better off just drafting good players and building a team with some kind of steady purposeful pattern which we never seem to have. You have to figure our draft history is iffy and there's not much reason to have faith we'd recognize and grab "The One" if he was sitting there right in front of our face anyway.

Say they'd have tanked so bad last year they had the 1st overall pick. Prescott has had the best rookie QB preseason, no way we'd have taken him 1st. We'd have taken Goff or Wentz and caused more harm than good. Then, is Prescott that good not behind a line the Cowboys purposefully built with that offense in front of him ?

[stuckincincy]

"After trading away good punter, Browns realize they lack good punters"

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/02/after-trading-away-good-punter-browns-realize-they-lack-good-punters/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/09/02/after-trading-away-good-punter-browns-realize-they-lack-good-punters/)

That's the Browns for ya. Even their fan sites. I like to check out opponents' fan sites to get their thoughts about strengths/weaknesses. Most of the Brownie ones are brown lettering on an orange background or vice versa. Talk about eye strain...

[Mr. Pink]

Funny part is they just signed Britton Colquitt.

So they traded a punter to get a 4th round pick to get basically the same punter as a FA.

I call that a win.

[Bill Cody]

Btw it's a MOOT point not MUTE lol

[Bill Cody]

RGIII isn't terrible. I think he's going to do well this year, actually.

Ok we disagree. He's worse than EJ

[Forward_Lateral]

Ok we disagree. He's worse than EJ


LOL no. He's not. EJ is RGIII minus speed, and ability to throw a deep ball accurately. Both suck at reading Defenses, both make short throws look hard. But, RGIII has 100000x more upside than EJ, IMO.

Compared to what Cleveland has trotted out at QB the past, I don't know, 20 seasons, RGIII is gold.

[Bill Cody]

LOL no. He's not. EJ is RGIII minus speed, and ability to throw a deep ball accurately. Both suck at reading Defenses, both make short throws look hard. But, RGIII has 100000x more upside than EJ, IMO.

Compared to what Cleveland has trotted out at QB the past, I don't know, 20 seasons, RGIII is gold.

Save this post ok?

[GreedoII]

The hardest thing to do in football by far is to find a franchise QB. We're not exactly covered in glory on this subject but damn the Browns make the Bills front office look like a Mensa meeting. First they sign RG3 who is absolutely terrible and pretend he's not. Then they trade out of the 2nd spot where they could have had Wentz because, well, they have RG3. Now the word is they're "very concerned about RG3". Apparently he's regressed even further, holds on to the ball and get this, in year 5 in the league "can't read a defense". Beautiful.

Just trying to cheer folks up that need cheering, things can always be worse, we could be the Browns.

they have like 16 draft picks next yr....most likely 2 in the top 10

[Bill Cody]

they have like 16 draft picks next yr....most likely 2 in the top 10

good point

although you still have to do something with them

[Joe Fo Sho]

They had 12 picks last year, 14 picks this year, and have 16 picks next year. Cripes, that's almost too many. Can you actually keep this many new guys on your team and develop them? For corn's sake, that's almost an entire team out of 3 drafts.

[Forward_Lateral]

Another great point made in this thread:

Cleveland got RGIII, A top 5 pick, for next to nothing.

Buffalo got EJ Manuel, a 3rd round pick, arguably a 2nd, for a 1st round pick.

[DesertFox24]

The thing is though, colleges now are kicking out unprepared spread QB's and teams are reaching for them.

You can arguably say Indy tanked for Luck one season (I think they were just really that bad under Caldwell and without The Peyton) and all it has let them do is feast on a weak division. They can't protect him well or win reliably outside their division. Giants with Eli were 6-10, Chargers with Rivers were 4-12, Atlanta 8-8 with Matt Ryan. Broncos won a title regardless of who their QB was.

We're better off just drafting good players and building a team with some kind of steady purposeful pattern which we never seem to have. You have to figure our draft history is iffy and there's not much reason to have faith we'd recognize and grab "The One" if he was sitting there right in front of our face anyway.

Say they'd have tanked so bad last year they had the 1st overall pick. Prescott has had the best rookie QB preseason, no way we'd have taken him 1st. We'd have taken Goff or Wentz and caused more harm than good. Then, is Prescott that good not behind a line the Cowboys purposefully built with that offense in front of him ?

Here is the thing, without a legit QB we have no shot at all at playoffs, winning seasons, or super bowl. I am hoping Tyrod is the guy and he is young enough to be the guy for 10 years. That said I am not convinced yet he is, but these first 10 games will determine the answer to that question for us fans, the bills, and himself (contract).

[Joe Fo Sho]

Another great point made in this thread:

Cleveland got RGIII, A top 5 pick, for next to nothing.

Buffalo got EJ Manuel, a 3rd round pick, arguably a 2nd, for a 1st round pick.

You and I must have a different definition of what a great point is.

[Bill Cody]

Another great point made in this thread:

Cleveland got RGIII, A top 5 pick, for next to nothing.

Buffalo got EJ Manuel, a 3rd round pick, arguably a 2nd, for a 1st round pick.

Where you were picked means zilch. The Browns just gave away Mingo, the 5th pick in the draft for a 5th rounder, so what?

RGIII was released by Washington for a reason. He was excellent in 2012 but after he got hurt he regressed badly. Without the great speed defenses play him honestly and he struggles. 3 wins in 2013. 4 wins in 2014. Benched last year and the team wins 9 games which tells you a lot. It's not going to end nicely in Cleveland either. They took a flier on a guy with no other obvious places to start.

[Mr. Pink]

They had 12 picks last year, 14 picks this year, and have 16 picks next year. Cripes, that's almost too many. Can you actually keep this many new guys on your team and develop them? For corn's sake, that's almost an entire team out of 3 drafts.

It's why almost every veteran on the team has been released and they didn't even attempt to resign guys like Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz, Travis Benjamin.

They're tearing down the roster and rebuilding it through the draft.

It wouldn't surprise me if next offseason Haden or Thomas are traded.

[swiper]

Where you were picked means zilch. The Browns just gave away Mingo, the 5th pick in the draft for a 5th rounder, so what?

RGIII was released by Washington for a reason. He was excellent in 2012 but after he got hurt he regressed badly. Without the great speed defenses play him honestly and he struggles.

You're missing another point. The Kapernick rule, if you will. Older fans are used to teams sitting on QBs and developing them over 3 to 5 years or so. With the new NFL and the fans demand for instant gratification these QBs are being thrown out to play immediately. They thrive initially, until there is enough film on them for the d-coordinators to adjust to them. Once that happens they regress, or come back down to earth. It happened to RGII, made worse by injuries. Is happening to Tyrod Taylor.

You can't just throw most QBs to the wolves immediately. It's a rare breed that will have immediate and lasting success.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It's why almost every veteran on the team has been released and they didn't even attempt to resign guys like Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz, Travis Benjamin.

They're tearing down the roster and rebuilding it through the draft.

It wouldn't surprise me if next offseason Haden or Thomas are traded.

I believe it.

I just looked it up, according to wikipedia, they've only cut 4 of the 28 picks they've had over the last 2 years. That's a lot of inexperience on that roster, holy crap.

- - - Updated - - -


You're missing another point. The Kapernick rule, if you will. Older fans are used to teams sitting on QBs and developing them over 3 to 5 years or so. With the new NFL and the fans demand for instant gratification these QBs are being thrown out to play immediately. They thrive initially, until there is enough film on them for the d-coordinators to adjust to them. Once that happens they regress, or come back down to earth. It happened to RGII, made worse by injuries. Is happening to Tyrod Taylor.

You can't just throw most QBs to the wolves immediately. It's a rare breed that will have immediate and lasting success.

Maybe we should give EJ another shot?

[Bill Cody]

You're missing another point. The Kapernick rule, if you will. Older fans are used to teams sitting on QBs and developing them over 3 to 5 years or so. With the new NFL and the fans demand for instant gratification these QBs are being thrown out to play immediately. They thrive initially, until there is enough film on them for the d-coordinators to adjust to them. Once that happens they regress, or come back down to earth. It happened to RGII, made worse by injuries. Is happening to Tyrod Taylor.

You can't just throw most QBs to the wolves immediately. It's a rare breed that will have immediate and lasting success.

Tyrod Taylor was not thrown to the wolves immediately, try 5 years in the league. And the jury is out on whether he regresses or improves. Kaep and RGIII regressed because they couldn't adjust to the inevitable adjustment teams made on them. That's partly because neither guy can read a defense. It wouldn't matter if you took them along slowly or not in my opinion because their main root problem is not fixable.

I'm not saying players can't benefit by sitting and learning but at some point players play. There was a lot of talk here back in the day about Losman not getting "developed" but you can't grow a brain for a player. You can't make a player be a leader if he's really a dick.

[trapezeus]

Are you really saying that tanking for a few years is worth Goff, Wentz, Mariota, or Winston? I mean really ?
not an outright tank, but in December whenyouknow you aren't making the playoffs, losing the last couple games to stay at pick 5 or better is helpful vs winning last 2 games and picking 12

[Mace]

not an outright tank, but in December whenyouknow you aren't making the playoffs, losing the last couple games to stay at pick 5 or better is helpful vs winning last 2 games and picking 12

When me and my friends use to play sports, football, baseball, hockey etc around 12-13, we used to rotate who was on what team. There was nothing like having one kid quit and go home after we walked all the way to where we could play, set up the teams and figured out how we could play whatever with 6 people, because he wanted to be on a team with someone else.

I remember one time the three guys figured to be the worst at football ended up on a team and it started raining. Everyone stayed. In the rain and the mud, the short legged bowling ball kid was unstoppable. They won on their last drive because the kid just powered right through us, zigged, zagged, we'd catch up to him because someone slowed him down, he'd power through us again. It was the most fun game of playground tackle I ever played. No one went home in a huff because they had a bloody nose, it was raining, or what team they were on.

The bowling ball kid only started playing with us and never didn't want to play, because we booted Mr. "I'm going home". The run-for-the-bus mentality was regarded as defective then, and I still think it is.

What if you start seeing teams trying to tank facing each other to see who can do worse, remember we aren't the only ones who can try ? It would be a woeful spectacle. Why not just refuse to play anymore when eliminated from the playoffs. If two teams do, it's a tie.

Players are still risking ACL's and concussions, fighting for better contracts, jobs, future roster spots, bonus money.

I despise the tanking mentality. Having a terrible day at work, people seldom go home and just bail on team oriented professions. If they do they stand out like sore thumbs. It's a noble trait that people soldier on. It's not the wrong side in the equation.

Teams win with middling picks, because they make good picks and use them well, not because of draft position.

Win your last 2 games, pick 15th, get a good player you can use to help what you have, and I can respect that.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Another great point made in this thread:

Cleveland got RGIII, A top 5 pick, for next to nothing.

In this instance, it would appear they got what they paid for.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000701223/article/browns-place-robert-griffin-iii-on-injured-reserve

[Forward_Lateral]

Poor Browns. They might be the only franchise that's pissed God of more than the Bills.

[sahlensguy]

The Browns outscored us...

[Mr. Pink]

Well the tank for DeShaun Watson now will be in full effect.

[sahlensguy]

Well the tank for DeShaun Watson now will be in full effect.

Rex would screw that up too. Watch him sandbag and rest starters so he can beat the Jets on the last game of the season.

[Cleve]

The Browns outscored us...

We won't know for sure until the Monday Night game is played tonight between Washington and Pittsburgh, but right now - the Bills have the LOWEST amount of scored points of any team in Week 1. And that's against a Baltimore team that was 6-10 in 2015. Baltimore also allowed, on average, 25.1 points per game against them in 2015 - which gave them the 24th ranked offense in the league. So the Bills have NO excuse for such a horrible performance - Rex Ryan clearly came in with a poorly prepared, poorly managed team, and it showed.

[Mr. Pink]

Rex would screw that up too. Watch him sandbag and rest starters so he can beat the Jets on the last game of the season.

I meant for the Browns, not the Bills. :rofl:

The Browns are a team that might win 3 games.

[sahlensguy]

I meant for the Browns, not the Bills. :rofl:

The Browns are a team that might win 3 games.

Even so, we'll be hard pressed to match that total. Scoring the ball won't get easier with rhe scouting report out, especially if Sammy is out.

- - - Updated - - -


We won't know for sure until the Monday Night game is played tonight between Washington and Pittsburgh, but right now - the Bills have the LOWEST amount of scored points of any team in Week 1. And that's against a Baltimore team that was 6-10 in 2015. Baltimore also allowed, on average, 25.1 points per game against them in 2015 - which gave them the 24th ranked offense in the league. So the Bills have NO excuse for such a horrible performance - Rex Ryan clearly came in with a poorly prepared, poorly managed team, and it showed.

Clearly!

[Skooby]

3 wins looks like a very high bar right now, here's the RG3 IR story:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17531162/cleveland-browns-qb-robert-griffin-iii-injured-reserve-shoulder-injury

[Mr. Pink]

3 wins looks like a very high bar right now, here's the RG3 IR story:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17531162/cleveland-browns-qb-robert-griffin-iii-injured-reserve-shoulder-injury

McCown looked halfway decent last year, when he wasn't getting hurt, he should be able to get a win or two before likely ending up on the IR himself. Then, I have no idea who the Browns are gonna have play QB. Maybe the'll bring Hogan off the PS to make a start? Or sign a Mike Vick off the scrap heap?

Should be amusing at the very minimum.

[Crisis]

Maybe we can get one of their 1,000 draft picks for EJ.

[The Jokeman]

The thing is though, colleges now are kicking out unprepared spread QB's and teams are reaching for them.

You can arguably say Indy tanked for Luck one season (I think they were just really that bad under Caldwell and without The Peyton) and all it has let them do is feast on a weak division. They can't protect him well or win reliably outside their division. Giants with Eli were 6-10, Chargers with Rivers were 4-12, Atlanta 8-8 with Matt Ryan. Broncos won a title regardless of who their QB was.

We're better off just drafting good players and building a team with some kind of steady purposeful pattern which we never seem to have. You have to figure our draft history is iffy and there's not much reason to have faith we'd recognize and grab "The One" if he was sitting there right in front of our face anyway.

Say they'd have tanked so bad last year they had the 1st overall pick. Prescott has had the best rookie QB preseason, no way we'd have taken him 1st. We'd have taken Goff or Wentz and caused more harm than good. Then, is Prescott that good not behind a line the Cowboys purposefully built with that offense in front of him ?

It's obvious to me that Whaley is doing his damnest to build this roster outside of QB. He's also hedging his bets that either Tyrod or Cardale or QB X will be leading this team in the next few years. It's not a bad plan. I think Cleveland is doing the same yet not sure they have the amount of pieces in place we do and trying to acquire as many draft picks as possible in hopes in the quantity they will add more talent.

[Cleve]

We won't know for sure until the Monday Night game is played tonight between Washington and Pittsburgh, but right now - the Bills have the LOWEST amount of scored points of any team in Week 1

I screwed up - forgot there were TWO MNF games - the Rams were shut out against San Francisco, so we were only the 2nd worst in total points.

[Cleve]

3 wins looks like a very high bar right now, here's the RG3 IR story:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17531162/cleveland-browns-qb-robert-griffin-iii-injured-reserve-shoulder-injury

Wow - complete disaster for the Browns, especially after last season's "Johnny Football" debacle. IF a Buffalo fan wants to feel better about the Bills, look at the Browns. I think the only real reason the Browns haven't beat the Bills for playoff drought is that the Bills are in the same division as New England.