Why Russ Brandon needs to go.

[bob86]

As many have noted, the one constant in the unswerving 16 year span of failure has been Russ Brandon. He has become the trademark of the fiasco that is the Buffalo Bills franchise. Players, coaches and GMs come and go and still through it all, the supposed chief executive of the organization not only endures but is repeatedly promoted. The old joke that the only two things that will survive nuclear war are cockroaches and Russ Brandon, never seems more true than it does today.

Some have said that Brandon needs to go because he is secretly an agent for other NFL teams, working behind the scenes to guarantee the incompetence of the football team. Others have said that he carries a curse that contaminates the teams. Still others have said he is just a symbol to individuals in the Bills organization, telling them its ok to be really bad at your job because nothing will happen to you other than getting promoted. Even some have suggested that he embodies that notion that the organization is run by people who value self-glorification, self-importance and self-survive more than the team’s success. Indeed, in this perverse way of thinking, the worse the team does on the field, the more important Brandon becomes because he is “saving the franchise” for Western New York through his supposed virtuoso marketing skills.

All, some or none of this might be true. Nonetheless, the reason I believe that Brandon has to go is that he has failed to stop first Ralph and now Terry and Kim from making obvious mistakes when hiring coaches and GMs. In the NFL, there is no secret formula for success. Everyone knows your team wins if you hire a competent coach and your GM finds a franchise QB, everything else the team needs can easily be filled in. Conversely, until your team has a good coach and QB nothing else the team does really matters, the team in all likelihood is going to lose.

The job of the owner (and his and or her principal adviser) is to hire a competent coach and a competent GM to find a franchise QB. The role of the owner’s principal advisor (Brandon) is most often to save the owner from himself. That is, convince the owner don’t hire a GM simply because he is someone the owner’s knows (as in the case of Wilson with Levy and Nix) or don’t hire a coach with a palpably dubious record and questionable personality traits just because the hire would be sexy (as in Rex’s case). It appears that no one told the owner in these instances “before we do this, let’s make sure there is no one better for the job.” It was not like the Bills were going to lose Levy, Nix or Rex to another team. Wilson, Terry and Kim are all smart people and if given just a little guidance would have made better choices. Instead what they got a yes man telling them “that’s a great idea boss.” In that sense, Brandon is the club’s (and the fans) last line of defense against fundamentally bad football decisions, and in each instance Brandon has failed miserably. Before the next coach and GM search starts, Terry and Kim need someone other than Brandon advising them or the mistakes of the past will only repeat themselves.

[Novacane]

He's not going to go. I understand these threads but they are pointless. The Pegulas love him. He's not going anywhere

[swiper]

Then the Pegulas are stupid billionaires.

[Luisito23]

I understand these threads but they are pointless.

Exactly...People are either too hardheaded, or as simply delusional to think Russ Brandon is getting fired...

And just in case they forgot, he's also the Sabres president, so that tells you just how safe he is and will continue to be.

[Historian]

He's not going to go. I understand these threads but they are pointless. The Pegulas love him. He's not going anywhere

You don't know that.

What I know about Kim and Terry, is that they are fiercely loyal to their employess, right down to the concession people and the ushers.

They give everyone a chance to succeed. (See Darcy and Larry)

At some point, they are going to call Brandon to the carpet, as well as the rest of the entrenched ticks, and ask, "What the hell is going on?"

It may take more time, but it is inevitable.

It's their money.

Great thread.

[swiper]

Russ Brandon® has taken the Pegulas here:

Bills are least valuable franchise in NFL, according to Forbes (http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/09/15/bills-least-valuable-franchise-nfl-according-forbes/)



Something you can be sure they are aware of and not happy about.

[Novacane]

You don't know that.

What I know about Kim and Terry, is that they are fiercely loyal to their employess, right down to the concession people and the ushers.

They give everyone a chance to succeed. (See Darcy and Larry)

At some point, they are going to call Brandon to the carpet, as well as the rest of the entrenched ticks, and ask, "What the hell is going on?"

It may take more time, but it is inevitable.

It's their money.

Great thread.

Brandon is not getting called on the carpet as long as the seats are filled and that is not going to happen anytime soon. If the fans want him gone it's up to them.

[EDS]

Brandon can stay so long as the Pegulas bring in a real GM that has full control of all player and coaching personnel decisions.

[Novacane]

If Brandon is involved in any way in football decisions he should be fired but we don't know that he is. A lot of you talk like you know he is but the fact is you don't.

If he really is just the marketing guy he's doing his job. The stadium is full. I wouldn't fire him either.

[Historian]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/14344905_909949595803995_3504210259133276071_n.jpg?oh=481abd263f02191839b303dd6b66727a&oe=583E4E00

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

You know there is something to some of our Russ Brandon drumbeats when the typical apologists are now silent....

[Joe Fo Sho]

Russ Brandon® has taken the Pegulas here:

Bills are least valuable franchise in NFL, according to Forbes (http://bills.buffalonews.com/2016/09/15/bills-least-valuable-franchise-nfl-according-forbes/)

You mean to a valuation of $100 million more than they paid in only 1 year? Sounds like they should be furious.

[Mr. Pink]

Why would he be fired?

He's a successful businessman and has proven it within the Bills organization.

In fact, when he's away from the football side of things, he's the only guy in the organization that has shown he knows what he's doing for the past 16 years.

[feldspar]

Somebody explain what Russ Brandon actually does...

What's his job?

He's the president. The President of the Seattle Seahawks, Peter McLoughlin, worked for Anheuser-Busch for 21 years. I don't see anyone hoisting THAT guy on their shoulders for the Seahawk's success on the field. Why? Because he's the president. See the job description.

I'm no fan of Brandon, and I'm not defending him really, because there is no need to. But he's not to blame just because he's been a part of this organization for a while, fellas. Taking that slant is just lazy thinking. If he stays or goes, it won't chance the product on the field.

[coastal]

Somebody explain what Russ Brandon actually does...

What's his job?

He's the president. The President of the Seattle Seahawks, Peter McLoughlin, worked for Anheuser-Busch for 21 years. I don't see anyone hoisting THAT guy on their shoulders for the Seahawk's success on the field. Why? Because he's the president. See the job description.

I'm no fan of Brandon, and I'm not defending him really, because there is no need to. But he's not to blame just because he's been a part of this organization for a while, fellas. Taking that slant is just lazy thinking. If he stays or goes, it won't chance the product on the field.
You either didn't read or comprehend the OP's thread.

Awesome thread.

[swiper]

You mean to a valuation of $100 million more than they paid in only 1 year? Sounds like they should be furious.

Every other franchise is rising in value at a quicker pace.

[Mike]

Stupid Bills Fans need someone to blame so why not the Marketing guy.

This is like blaming Ronald McDonald for your overweight problem.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Stupid Bills Fans need someone to blame so why not the Marketing guy.

This is like blaming Ronald McDonald for your overweight problem.

no it isn't. The marketing guy helped sell Rex to the ownership as well as idiotic moves like TO in order to drum up fan support to boost ticket sales. If you don't see the correlation with the marketing guy with his hands in the football part then i don't know what to tell you

[stuckincincy]

no it isn't. The marketing guy helped sell Rex to the ownership as well as idiotic moves like TO in order to drum up fan support to boost ticket sales. If you don't see the correlation with the marketing guy with his hands in the football part then i don't know what to tell you

Good post.

[cookie G]

Stupid Bills Fans need someone to blame so why not the Marketing guy.

This is like blaming Ronald McDonald for your overweight problem.

And then there are the stupid Bills Fans who believe Russ is just a "marketing guy".

Marketing guys aren't involved in the selection of the head coach of a football team. I really can't believe this needs to be explained.

Well..in this case, they are.

The Jets used Ron Wolf to find their new coach, the Bills used "the Marketing Guy".

And while the Marketing Guy wasn't turning over the stones he promised 4 years ago, maybe the Marketing Guy should have looked into why Rex was fired in 2014 and why the Jets were considered a dysfunctional mess when he was. And maybe he should have considered why genuine football people like Charley Casserly and Ron Wolf didn't push for his retention.

Well...the Marketing Guy got what he wanted.

You should be happy with the results.

[YardRat]

Brandon is an enigma to me. He does a great job with the business end, one has to acknowledge that unless you're in the 'anybody can market an NFL team' camp. He did a ****ty job as GM, when he was all in on the personnel side. It wreaks of his publicity whore personality when we sign TO, hire Wrecks, etc, and moves like that are simply unforgivable. However, like it or not, when he was owner pro temp for the last few years of Ralph's life before he passed, he had his hands on the building of a team that featured a dominant defense, a really solid special teams, and was simply an adequate QB and an offensive linemen or two away from being a serious contender.

I'm not in the Brandon-Hater category necessarily, but it really is time to remove him from the football team and at least give the perception they are heading in a different direction.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm not in the Brandon-Hater category necessarily, but it really is time to remove him from the football team and at least give the perception they are heading in a different direction.

Only quoting the pertinent part as I agree that Brandon is not the issue as well but in a way it's time to move on for him and everyone in the front office to at least show that the franchise is going in a different direction.

[Mace]

Well, I still don't think he needs to go. He just needs to be removed from the football decision making process.

Fat chance of that happening though, he's a gladhander with the personality trait to make bull**** believable.

[BertSquirtgum]

Russ Brandon = poop

[Mace]

Russ Brandon = poop

You always have a thoughtful, concise summarization, Squirtgum.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Somebody explain what Russ Brandon actually does...

What's his job?

He's the president. The President of the Seattle Seahawks, Peter McLoughlin, worked for Anheuser-Busch for 21 years. I don't see anyone hoisting THAT guy on their shoulders for the Seahawk's success on the field. Why? Because he's the president. See the job description.

I'm no fan of Brandon, and I'm not defending him really, because there is no need to. But he's not to blame just because he's been a part of this organization for a while, fellas. Taking that slant is just lazy thinking. If he stays or goes, it won't chance the product on the field.


Well I tell you one thing, he is nowhere near as good as that Guy that Bellichick has that is so mysterious that people cannot figure out was his job is.

[stuckincincy]

Huh?

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Russ Brandon = poop

couldn't have said it better myself.

[sudzy]

Stupid Bills Fans need someone to blame so why not the Marketing guy.

This is like blaming Ronald McDonald for your overweight problem.

There was a report that Rex was pressured by upper management to make a big move to appease angry Bills fans. That sounds like a marketing ploy. Now, I think Brandon is the best at what he does (sell mediocrity), but, when you have your marketing guy as President of your team, it makes me question what really is important to you.

[sudzy]

There was a report that Rex was pressured by upper management to make a big move to appease angry Bills fans. That sounds like a marketing ploy. Now, I think Brandon is the best at what he does (sell mediocrity), but, when you have your marketing guy as President of your team, it makes me question what really is important to you.


Sporting News has learned that Buffalo’s front office leaned on head coach Rex Ryan to make a significant change in hopes of appeasing a disgruntled fan base.


http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/rex-ryan-bills-use-greg-roman-as-sacrificial-lamb-to-appease-the-fans/1fpf513y2je6z1en0lh0lydq5m?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

The "marketing guy" gave us Doug Marrone, was hand picked by Russ

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

The "marketing guy" gave us Doug Marrone, was hand picked by Russ

What do you mean? The Russ Brandon lickers have convinced me that he is a genius marketing guy and has absolutely nothing to do with football decisions. And that he's brilliant.

[trapezeus]

Somebody explain what Russ Brandon actually does...

What's his job?

He's the president. The President of the Seattle Seahawks, Peter McLoughlin, worked for Anheuser-Busch for 21 years. I don't see anyone hoisting THAT guy on their shoulders for the Seahawk's success on the field. Why? Because he's the president. See the job description.

I'm no fan of Brandon, and I'm not defending him really, because there is no need to. But he's not to blame just because he's been a part of this organization for a while, fellas. Taking that slant is just lazy thinking. If he stays or goes, it won't chance the product on the field.

Does peter mcloughlin appear in the draft room and as one of two people with people who sign with the team. Russ is a con man and the gig is up. Apologists aren't defending him and this season is going to really get the fan base upset. We will not accept Russ Brandon as a part of buffalo sports. Full stop

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

What do you mean? The Russ Brandon lickers have convinced me that he is a genius marketing guy and has absolutely nothing to do with football decisions. And that he's brilliant.
I mean he has to go, I've been saying it since Sal was in his basement

[coastal]

Russ Brandon being gone has to be the #1 priority!

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Huh?

Ernie Adams, Bellicheat's director of Football Research.

http://www.northwestern.edu/magazine/winter2008/feature/adams.html

When Belichick was in Cleveland, Art Modell offered 10,000 dollars to find out exactly what Ernie Adams role was for Belichick was, and he never found out. During the spygate/signalsgate controversy that only ended with a league memo, slap on the wrist, and complete destruction of the evidence Ernie Adams' name rose to the media's attention.

http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams

So when Feldspar asked what Russ Brandon's job was, it made me think of Ernie Adams.

[stuckincincy]

Ernie Adams, Bellicheat's director of Football Research.

http://www.northwestern.edu/magazine/winter2008/feature/adams.html

When Belichick was in Cleveland, Art Modell offered 10,000 dollars to find out exactly what Ernie Adams role was for Belichick was, and he never found out. During the spygate/signalsgate controversy that only ended with a league memo, slap on the wrist, and complete destruction of the evidence Ernie Adams' name rose to the media's attention.

http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams

So when Feldspar asked what Russ Brandon's job was, it made me think of Ernie Adams.

Thanks, Crow! :beer:

[WagonCircler]

Russ Brandon = poop


Poop just called.

Said they're offended by this comparison.

[bleve]

Ernie Adams, Bellicheat's director of Football Research.

http://www.northwestern.edu/magazine/winter2008/feature/adams.html

When Belichick was in Cleveland, Art Modell offered 10,000 dollars to find out exactly what Ernie Adams role was for Belichick was, and he never found out. During the spygate/signalsgate controversy that only ended with a league memo, slap on the wrist, and complete destruction of the evidence Ernie Adams' name rose to the media's attention.

http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams

So when Feldspar asked what Russ Brandon's job was, it made me think of Ernie Adams.

Thanks for posting this. I knew of Ernie Adams, he's RainMan of the NFL. He's counting cards in the game of NFL. The Pats have done a great job of keeping this guy out of the limelight.

Find this guy another hobby

[Figster]

There was a report that Rex was pressured by upper management to make a big move to appease angry Bills fans. That sounds like a marketing ploy. Now, I think Brandon is the best at what he does (sell mediocrity), but, when you have your marketing guy as President of your team, it makes me question what really is important to you.


This post is so spot on,

I will say this about the Pegula's, new ownership isn't afraid to get their hands dirty cleaning up a mess and judging by Romans polite departure statement it gave the impression Pegula's may have left the door open.

[SpikedLemonade]

Then the Pegulas are stupid billionaires.

He is a dumb Polack who got lucky through fracking and rode the momentum.

Managing people and managing drills/land rights are two radically different skill sets.

Pegula needs to hire Wolfe and give him the keys to the franchise.

[YardRat]

I don't have a problem with a marketing guy being President (don't forget, he's also Managing Partner), the position is supposed to oversee the entire operation. As a matter of fact, if you look at the organizational chart, the executive branch is made up entirely of business people, not football people. I do have a problem, however, if the position is being used too much to be involved in decisions regarding the pure football aspects of the organization, he shouldn't be doing a job that ownership is paying others to do, and as I (and several others over the years) have stated moves like TO and Wrecks just wreak of his influence.

Jim Overdorf is the Senior Vice President of Football Operations, and has been with the team for over 20 years. I'd like to know how much input he has on the decisions regarding the football side, and if anybody's head should be put on the chopping block it would be his.

IMO if there were a definite statement, and evidence that actually supports that statement, that Brandon has zero input on football nobody would give a **** what position he holds or what his background is.

[coastal]

I'm assuming part of Brandon's role is to structure the organization to run effectively.

Ask anyone in the corporate world... the last person you want in that role is someone from the marketing department.

[DraftBoy]

Does peter mcloughlin appear in the draft room and as one of two people with people who sign with the team. Russ is a con man and the gig is up. Apologists aren't defending him and this season is going to really get the fan base upset. We will not accept Russ Brandon as a part of buffalo sports. Full stop

Can't speak to that one, but Rich McKay does for the Falcons and there are a number of other team presidents across the league who appear whenever the team has official business to announce or conduct.

[coastal]

I don't have a problem with a marketing guy being President (don't forget, he's also Managing Partner), the position is supposed to oversee the entire operation. As a matter of fact, if you look at the organizational chart, the executive branch is made up entirely of business people, not football people. I do have a problem, however, if the position is being used too much to be involved in decisions regarding the pure football aspects of the organization, he shouldn't be doing a job that ownership is paying others to do, and as I (and several others over the years) have stated moves like TO and Wrecks just wreak of his influence.

Jim Overdorf is the Senior Vice President of Football Operations, and has been with the team for over 20 years. I'd like to know how much input he has on the decisions regarding the football side, and if anybody's head should be put on the chopping block it would be his.

IMO if there were a definite statement, and evidence that actually supports that statement, that Brandon has zero input on football nobody would give a **** what position he holds or what his background is.
God awful post.

[GreedoII]

Pegula just needs to do what he did with the Sabres. Clean it put and bring in a new regime to build it up. He's still figuring it out with the Bills. It will happen I think. It s the Sabres scenario all over again. Stay loyal a bit with the old regime until you just have to change it.

[Jan Reimers]

Brandon is a very successful business executive. I believe the last evaluation of the Bills was $1 billion. They are now at $1.5 billion, a 50% increase. Brandon definitely has something to do with that.

Whaley and Tyrannosaurus Rex are the cause of our on-field failures.

[justasportsfan]

Russ marketing plan for next year

Head coach / DC - Wade Philipps

OC- Frank Reich
QB Coach/Asst OC - Van Pelt
WR Coach - Andre Reed
RB Coach - Thurman

Draft Chip Kelly

[SpikedLemonade]

Pegula just needs to do what he did with the Sabres. Clean it put and bring in a new regime to build it up. He's still figuring it out with the Bills. It will happen I think. It s the Sabres scenario all over again. Stay loyal a bit with the old regime until you just have to change it.

So the Bills should tank for over 2 years?

[coastal]

So the Bills should tank for over 2 years?
Talking proud!

[GreedoII]

no..but bring in new people with a new vision. Tanking in football isn't common if at all unless you have a can't miss QB prospect which is rare too.

[SpikedLemonade]

Talking proud!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46Ive-dRXVo

[trapezeus]

if marketing is all that matters, here is a great ticket pitch that will fill the stadium for 1 year. "russ Brandon has been relieved of his duties and has no capacities with either sports team." I'm going to go start a gofundme.com page.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I was in Caesars in Vegas last year and I was on the treadmill and there was a dude decked out in Bills gear. I start talking to him and he told me he roomed with Russ Brandon in college. I wanted to punch him in the testicles just for knowing him that well

[Mace]

I knew he was a first-rate individual.


There is not one bone in Rex that’s not authentic.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2015/07/23/russ-brandon-interview-buffalo-bills-training-camp/30589675/

[SpikedLemonade]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/sports/football/nfl/bills/2015/07/23/russ-brandon-interview-buffalo-bills-training-camp/30589675/

Rex's bones are NOT the problem.

The fact they are covered and surrounded by tons and tons of stupidity, ego, arrogance, nepotism, false bravado and rotten whale blubber is the problem.

I am sure that deep deep deep down Rex is still fat.

[Jimkelly12203]

So the Bills should tank for over 2 years?

Sadly i think we have to do just that.

We can't keep finishing 7-9 or 8-8 and expect to get anywhere. Other than Dareus at 3 who was the last really high pick we had? Mike Williams at 4? So i looked it up and between those two we picked 23rd, 13th, 22nd, no pick, 8th, 26th, 12th, 11th, 11th, 28th and 9th. Ugg! It's the Buffalo Bills doing their 6-10 through 8-8 thing. mediocrity at its finest. never bad enough to get good.

We need to pick 1st overall if we want to get a franchise QB and it has to be the right year. Wouldn't do us much good in the EJ/Geno draft to have first overall.

I would literally gut the thing if i was Pegs. Fire literally everyone at the end of the year. Pay whatever it takes to get a real proven football mind into the building to get me a GM and a coach. Then sell off all these big contracts and tank-zilla for as long as it takes to get that QB.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Russ marketing plan for next year

Head coach / DC - Wade Philipps

OC- Frank Reich
QB Coach/Asst OC - Van Pelt
WR Coach - Andre Reed
RB Coach - Thurman

Draft Chip Kelly

That would actually be a fairly decent coaching staff

[feldspar]

Russ Brandon is the President of the Buffalo Bills, the Buffalo Sabres , the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League, and Pegula Sports and Entertainment.

The guy ain't fielding teams and coaching staffs on top of all that.

[Mace]

Russ Brandon is the President of the Buffalo Bills, the Buffalo Sabres , the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League, and Pegula Sports and Entertainment.

The guy ain't fielding teams and coaching staffs on top of all that.

Maybe he won't the next time, but he did the last time without the other hats. Maybe, but I doubt it. He's their football guru until they bring in another. Who else do they have to listen to ?

[swiper]

Pegula just needs to do what he did with the Sabres. Clean it put and bring in a new regime to build it up. He's still figuring it out with the Bills. It will happen I think. It s the Sabres scenario all over again. Stay loyal a bit with the old regime until you just have to change it.

Yeah and then Pegula put Brandon in charge of the Sabres. WTF are you even talking about? Nothing you said is right.

[swiper]

That would actually be a fairly decent coaching staff

Reich won't make a lateral move. In fact, he's got a great job and doing a great job making Wentz succeed. He's not going anywhere except as head coach. And I still don't think he's ready for that. But the Eagles really put together a good coaching staff, didn't they? 2-0 after you all claimed they were tanking by trading Bradford. Two weeks later they look like geniuses. Ron Brooks, Leodis McKelvin all took steps up by following Schwartz. Maybe they'll even see the play-offs. Something that none of you are going to see for the next five-plus years in Buffalo.

[SpikedLemonade]

Maybe he won't the next time, but he did the last time without the other hats. Maybe, but I doubt it. He's their football guru until they bring in another. Who else do they have to listen to ?

Mace I sent you a PM.

[feldspar]

Maybe he won't the next time, but he did the last time without the other hats. Maybe, but I doubt it. He's their football guru until they bring in another. Who else do they have to listen to ?

Football guru, not.

He was a stop-gap who filled in for a very short bit in football capacity out of necessity because Ralph Wilson was in no shape to do anything. Now people make all these baseless assumptions about what Brandon actually does today.

Presidents aren't generally "football guys" all the time. They certainly don't set the culture of the actual team you see on the field.

Again, Brandon is the President of THREE teams (in two differs sports) as well as Pegula Sports and Entertainment. His plate is full as a business executive. Who in their right mind would ever go to him for the inside slant on players or other football personnel? As if he even has time to do the necessary research to be well-informed in these matters, or even the background...He's in the loop because he's the President, but he's not making the decisions at all.

I hate to break it to you people, but the Pegulas aren't going to fire Brandon any time soon. They basically hired him as President of ALL their ****...and they have a lot of ****. IMO, things wouldn't change if Brandon were fired anyway. The Sabres and Bills wouldn't magically start to win with a different business executive at the helm.

BTW, I don't particularly care for Brandon either. But I don't blame him for things that aren't his fault.

[YardRat]

Football guru, not.

He was a stop-gap who filled in for a very short bit in football capacity out of necessity because Ralph Wilson was in no shape to do anything. Now people make all these baseless assumptions about what Brandon actually does today.

Presidents aren't generally "football guys" all the time. They certainly don't set the culture of the actual team you see on the field.

Again, Brandon is the President of THREE teams (in two differs sports) as well as Pegula Sports and Entertainment. His plate is full as a business executive. Who in their right mind would ever go to him for the inside slant on players or other football personnel? As if he even has time to do the necessary research to be well-informed in these matters, or even the background...He's in the loop because he's the President, but he's not making the decisions at all.

I hate to break it to you people, but the Pegulas aren't going to fire Brandon any time soon. They basically hired him as President of ALL their ****...and they have a lot of ****. IMO, things wouldn't change if Brandon were fired anyway. The Sabres and Bills wouldn't magically start to win with a different business executive at the helm.

BTW, I don't particularly care for Brandon either. But I don't blame him for things that aren't his fault.


I agree with this, but the point I tried to make earlier (apparently unsuccessfully) is that if he is in the loop on major football decisions he needs to be taken out of it, and if the truth is he isn't then those that are need to stop doing stupid **** that gives the appearance that he is.

Maybe Brandon had absolutely nothing to do with hiring Wrecks in reality, but the move certainly appears to have his stink all over it.

[trapezeus]

there was an article in the Rochester democrat and chronicle at the time of Rex's hiring saying that Brandon was integral in the hiring of rex and that whaley pegulas and Brandon were in the room and all were blown away.



http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/CEO-Russ-Brandon-to-assume-organizational-control-of-Buffalo-Bills/2ad8aaac-9277-4d2f-88a6-7b73eda1887d (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/CEO-Russ-Brandon-to-assume-organizational-control-of-Buffalo-Bills/2ad8aaac-9277-4d2f-88a6-7b73eda1887d)
And there was this article on buffalo bils.com stating that he assumed "full authority over the entire football operations"

but the apologists can keep giving Brandon breaks and the rest of us will be stuck with this poorly run organization

[Arm of Harm]

An article (http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/How-the-Bills-decided-on-Rex-Ryan-as-head-coach/aa1cc736-b6c4-4af7-bfe9-4aba573bf0fd) from BuffaloBills.com:

************
The Pegulas, along with President Russ Brandon and GM Doug Whaley, didn’t sit down with Rex Ryan until they were a full week into candidate interviews. . . .

With the assistance of Brandon and Whaley, who had just gone through a whirlwind coaching search two years prior, [the Pegulas] promptly scheduled interviews with coaching candidates on bye weeks before their playoff games.
************

The above is very strong evidence that Brandon was involved in the decision to hire Rex Ryan. If he had a hand in that decision, who knows how many other football-related decisions he may have influenced over the years?

Supposedly, Brandon is no longer involved in the football side of things. That's a nice story. But is it true? Because there is a report that someone in the organization leaned heavily on Ryan to make a big firing. Maybe Brandon "staying out" of the football side means that he actually stays out most of the time. Usually. But if or when the football side starts interfering with his marketing plans, he may be willing to jump right back in; in order to get the marketing side back on track.

Any marketing people who have been meddling in the football side of the house need to go. Period. At the moment, the best football people in the league don't want to come here, because they assume (correctly) that their efforts will be interfered with by others. Only by ruthlessly cleansing this organization of those interfering others can we make it attractive to the best football minds in the NFL.

[trapezeus]

perhaps we need a gofundme.com drive where we ask season ticket holders to donate vs renewing next year unless Brandon is gone. if a sizable chunk of money is raised, it sends a message that you can't just can a coach and a gm. the whole thing needs to change.

[Joe Fo Sho]

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/CEO-Russ-Brandon-to-assume-organizational-control-of-Buffalo-Bills/2ad8aaac-9277-4d2f-88a6-7b73eda1887d
And there was this article on buffalo bils.com stating that he assumed "full authority over the entire football operations"

but the apologists can keep giving Brandon breaks and the rest of us will be stuck with this poorly run organization

That article is from 2013.

[trapezeus]

argument was that he only is marketing. hes been gm, handed full control, sold team and got promoted to oversea both teams. he's involved day to day. the only reason they don't spell it out verbatim is because that's his out when the **** hits the fan every 3 years. "I am not responsible."

[Mace]

Football guru, not.

He was a stop-gap who filled in for a very short bit in football capacity out of necessity because Ralph Wilson was in no shape to do anything. Now people make all these baseless assumptions about what Brandon actually does today.

Presidents aren't generally "football guys" all the time. They certainly don't set the culture of the actual team you see on the field.

Again, Brandon is the President of THREE teams (in two differs sports) as well as Pegula Sports and Entertainment. His plate is full as a business executive. Who in their right mind would ever go to him for the inside slant on players or other football personnel? As if he even has time to do the necessary research to be well-informed in these matters, or even the background...He's in the loop because he's the President, but he's not making the decisions at all.

I hate to break it to you people, but the Pegulas aren't going to fire Brandon any time soon. They basically hired him as President of ALL their ****...and they have a lot of ****. IMO, things wouldn't change if Brandon were fired anyway. The Sabres and Bills wouldn't magically start to win with a different business executive at the helm.

BTW, I don't particularly care for Brandon either. But I don't blame him for things that aren't his fault.

Ok, he was an integral football voice in Pegulas ear for the Ryan hire. Which made him an influential football factor. Is he now ?

You suppose a lot. You suppose he didn't slide in to an already functional Sabres organization where Murray has a handle on everything. You suppose he's heavily involved in Pegula Sports & Entertainment.

Even if so, he came from the football org. So if Pegula needs what he considers a reliable football voice for another coaching search, he's not going to turn to a guy who's been heavily involved in 2 of them who he trusts ? Who replaced him as integral football voice ? The invisible Whaley ? Contracts & Cap Overdorf ?20 years of working my way up the ladder in IT didn't prevent people from coming and asking me about the entry level things I started on, because I was trusted to have a knowledge. I'm sure not the only one that's happened to.

Blaming Brandon for what he's been involved with football wise, like Ryan is perfectly appropriate, he shares responsibility.

Presuming he may still share responsibility is also perfectly appropriate based on precedent and the lack of change. Thinking he won't be involved in the next coaching search ? If you don't think so at this point where the organization hasn't changed any, I don't know what to tell you.

They simply don't have any other football voices, and if Pegulas hired LaFontaine to come up with Murray, and know hockey well, they're certainly not going to go into a coaching search in football based on their own knowledge. So where do they get it from ?

Gee, I can't imagine.

[bleve]

Russ Brandon is the President of the Buffalo Bills, the Buffalo Sabres , the Rochester Americans of the American Hockey League, and Pegula Sports and Entertainment.

The guy ain't fielding teams and coaching staffs on top of all that.

Fielding teams, and excluselvely hiring coaching staffs is not at all what he does.

But, in the last 16 years, he absolutely has had a say and influence into the hires of coaches, and GM's. He's been involved with FA signings, been on the interview committee for GM's and Coaches.

He is no way qualified to make such recommendations. I remember an article a few years ago when Russ was in attendance at the Combine in Indy. There were numerous NFL personnel humored by the fact that Russ thought himself to be a GM.

[SpikedLemonade]

Hire the Wolf as President of Football Operations and give him complete authority.

Russ Brandon is THE best minor league baseball marketing coordinator in the NFL.

Fire Russ.

Hire Coastal.

[coastal]

Amen!!!

[Night Train]

Fielding teams, and excluselvely hiring coaching staffs is not at all what he does.

But, in the last 16 years, he absolutely has had a say and influence into the hires of coaches, and GM's. He's been involved with FA signings, been on the interview committee for GM's and Coaches.

He is no way qualified to make such recommendations. I remember an article a few years ago when Russ was in attendance at the Combine in Indy. There were numerous NFL personnel humored by the fact that Russ thought himself to be a GM.

The worst was when the Senior Bowl game in Mobile was being played in January 2013, when Manuel was MVP of the game. The camera pans the stands and catches Nix, Marrone & Brandon. Brandon sees the camera focusing in on him and puts on this used car salesman fake smile straight at the camera for a good 30 seconds. I just laughed and shook my head. The Bills drafted Manuel and that's when I had my doubts this guy should be around the team.

If he's been banished to adm. and marketing as President of both the Bills and Sabres, so be it. But when I see him speaking to the media a bit too much, it comes across that he's more involved in the football/hockey side of things than he should be. He has as much football acumen as Ralph did, which is zero.

I know he has zero say in anything over on the hockey side. Murray completely controls that. But with the Bills, I'm not so sure.

[Joe Fo Sho]

So the general consensus is that Russ Brandon is in complete control of the business side of both a professional Hockey and Football team, and still finds enough time in his day to make/ruin the crucial decisions for the football side of the Buffalo Bills. Man, this guy needs a raise. That is an incredible amount to ask of one person.

[coastal]

So the general consensus is that Russ Brandon is in complete control of the business side of both a professional Hockey and Football team, and still finds enough time in his day to make/ruin the crucial decisions for the football side of the Buffalo Bills. Man, this guy needs a raise. That is an incredible amount to ask of one person.youbarent getting the concept...

who is tesponsbile for structuring the business for success?

[Joe Fo Sho]

youbarent getting the concept...

who is tesponsbile for structuring the business for success?

Terry Pegula

[SpikedLemonade]

Terry Pegula

That baby can only drill baby drill.

[coastal]

Terry Pegula
You're a ****ing idiot.

[swiper]

Hire the Wolf as President of Football Operations and give him complete authority.

Russ Brandon is THE best minor league baseball marketing coordinator in the NFL.

Fire Russ.

Hire Coastal.

The Bills don't need a 5-card pud.

[Mace]

So the general consensus is that Russ Brandon is in complete control of the business side of both a professional Hockey and Football team, and still finds enough time in his day to make/ruin the crucial decisions for the football side of the Buffalo Bills. Man, this guy needs a raise. That is an incredible amount to ask of one person.

I'm not sure anyone said he's in absolute complete control of everything, or makes absolute complete final decisions in everything on the football side. Even looking to assert or criticize the thought based on the absolutes some people seek to embrace is overly simplistic. I mean, you know that, come on.

Influence on the organization, and input on major decisions such as coaching or GM hires and fires are not micro management and no one has yet come up with who in the world could be influential crunch time football voice in Pegula's ear besides him.

This is because atm, there is no one, and if Whaley or Ryan are booted, you're going to see his name again as a part of the search process, and you know that too.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You're a ****ing idiot.

Ask a dumb **** of a question, get a dumb **** of an answer. You get the trifecta for being a dumb ****.

[Mace]

Ask a dumb **** of a question, get a dumb **** of an answer. You get the trifecta for being a dumb ****.

The use of obscenities is unbecoming Fo Sho. I mean you expect Coastal to spout verbal filth for his heathen, if intoxicatingly beastly barbarianism , but is this kind of ****ing dynamic discourse really necessary for those of us who have small children reading over their shoulder ?

I mean I don't have small children reading over my shoulder and if I did they'd be mean savage little bastards anyway, but can we have some sense of propriety here ?

Don't use the excuse that he did it first, if all your friends jumped off Niagara Falls first, would you follow ?

How uncouth.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The use of obscenities is unbecoming Fo Sho. I mean you expect Coastal to spout verbal filth for his heathen, if intoxicatingly beastly barbarianism , but is this kind of ****ing dynamic discourse really necessary for those of us who have small children reading over their shoulder ?

I mean I don't have small children reading over my shoulder and if I did they'd be mean savage little bastards anyway, but can we have some sense of propriety here ?

Don't use the excuse that he did it first, if all your friends jumped off Niagara Falls first, would you follow ?

How uncouth.

****

[Arm of Harm]

So the general consensus is that Russ Brandon is in complete control of the business side of both a professional Hockey and Football team, and still finds enough time in his day to make/ruin the crucial decisions for the football side of the Buffalo Bills. Man, this guy needs a raise. That is an incredible amount to ask of one person.

The U.S. President is expected to serve as commander-in-chief of the armed forces. In addition, that president is expected to be actively involved in decisions involving diplomacy, immigration policy, the environment, economic policy, healthcare, fundraising for reelection, and a host of other issues. If the president can do all that, then surely a guy like Russ Brandon can find time to do the three things you mentioned. Especially if he uses some of the same techniques the president uses.

To exert this much power, the president hires a number of competent advisors. Those advisors present a menu of options to the president; along with a briefing on each menu choice. The president chooses from the menu, while leaving it to others to write actual legislation.

It would be very surprising if Brandon was responsible for the actual implementation of the business plans his department formulates. In most cases, the vast majority of that implementation is almost certainly carried out by subordinates. For a lot of this stuff, Brandon's job will be to provide big picture guidance, keep tabs on his subordinates, and ensure they are implementing effectively. It is not necessarily the case that he micromanages every little detail.

We know that he's had considerable input into the football side of things over the years, including his stint as GM and his involvement in the hiring of Whaley. Assuming Night Train's post is accurate, as I believe it to be, Brandon was also involved in the decision to draft Manuel. Thinking back a few years, I recall Marv describing the "consensus" approach to drafting the Bills had during his tenure as GM. One wonders how much role Brandon's input played in that "consensus."

What we have is a track record of a guy who's been giving football-related input for years. Input which, presumably, directly and significantly contributed to the longest active playoff drought in the NFL. We are told that it's possible to keep the guy, while getting rid of his bad football input, and his harmful, behind-the-scenes, football-related lobbying. Keeping a guy like that does not seem like the type of decision a Super Bowl-bound organization would make.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The U.S. President is expected to serve as commander-in-chief of the armed forces. In addition, that president is expected to be actively involved in decisions involving diplomacy, immigration policy, the environment, economic policy, healthcare, fundraising for reelection, and a host of other issues. If the president can do all that, then surely a guy like Russ Brandon can find time to do the three things you mentioned. Especially if he uses some of the same techniques the president uses.

To exert this much power, the president hires a number of competent advisors. Those advisors present a menu of options to the president; along with a briefing on each menu choice. The president chooses from the menu, while leaving it to others to write actual legislation.

It would be very surprising if Brandon was responsible for the actual implementation of the business plans his department formulates. In most cases, the vast majority of that implementation is almost certainly carried out by subordinates. For a lot of this stuff, Brandon's job will be to provide big picture guidance, keep tabs on his subordinates, and ensure they are implementing effectively. It is not necessarily the case that he micromanages every little detail.

Ok.


We know that he's had considerable input into the football side of things over the years, including his stint as GM and his involvement in the hiring of Whaley. Assuming Night Train's post is accurate, as I believe it to be, Brandon was also involved in the decision to draft Manuel. Thinking back a few years, I recall Marv describing the "consensus" approach to drafting the Bills had during his tenure as GM. One wonders how much role Brandon's input played in that "consensus."

Who owned the Bills back then?


What we have is a track record of a guy who's been giving football-related input for years. Input which, presumably, directly and significantly contributed to the longest active playoff drought in the NFL. We are told that it's possible to keep the guy, while getting rid of his bad football input, and his harmful, behind-the-scenes, football-related lobbying. Keeping a guy like that does not seem like the type of decision a Super Bowl-bound organization would make.

Which decision did Russ make that has caused us to miss the playoffs since Pegula was hired and moved him to the non-football aspect of the team?

Did Russ make the decision to hire Rex? Would Pegula have hired Rex by himself? Was Whaley completely against Rex? Would Pegula hire Rex if he didn't want him to be the coach? Why is Russ getting all of the crap for this hire when the Pegulas and Whaley are also to blame? Is it because he's the easy fall man? Do you like questions? Do you want more hypothetical questions that no one can really answer? What's the best number?

[OpIv37]

Ok.



Who owned the Bills back then?



Which decision did Russ make that has caused us to miss the playoffs since Pegula was hired and moved him to the non-football aspect of the team?

Did Russ make the decision to hire Rex? Would Pegula have hired Rex by himself? Was Whaley completely against Rex? Would Pegula hire Rex if he didn't want him to be the coach? Why is Russ getting all of the crap for this hire when the Pegulas and Whaley are also to blame? Is it because he's the easy fall man? Do you like questions? Do you want more hypothetical questions that no one can really answer? What's the best number?

No one knows the inner workings of the organization so no one knows specifically how much input Brandon had into any specific decision. What we do know is this:
1. Brandon has created an organizational culture where a healthy bottom line is more important than winning. Marketable decisions are valued over ones that help the team.
2. Players, coaches, GM's and even ownership have changed over the last decade. The only thing that has remained constant over that time period is Russ Brandon having a leadership role in the organization.

Yes, the Pegulas and Whaley have blood on their hands, but given #2, defense of Russ Brandon is unfathomable to me. As long as he is here, the possibility remains that he could be involved in- or at least influencing- football decisions, and that is inexcusable.

Pegula made the same mistake he did with the Sabres. He should have had a "scorched earth" policy from day 1 and ****-canned anyone with blood on their hands for any part of the 14 years or so before he took over. He's going to end up doing that anyway, and we will start rebuilding again next year or the year after when we should have started 2 years ago.

[Bill Cody]

No one knows the inner workings of the organization so no one knows specifically how much input Brandon had into any specific decision. What we do know is this:
1. Brandon has created an organizational culture where a healthy bottom line is more important than winning. Marketable decisions are valued over ones that help the team.
2. Players, coaches, GM's and even ownership have changed over the last decade. The only thing that has remained constant over that time period is Russ Brandon having a leadership role in the organization.

Yes, the Pegulas and Whaley have blood on their hands, but given #2, defense of Russ Brandon is unfathomable to me. As long as he is here, the possibility remains that he could be involved in- or at least influencing- football decisions, and that is inexcusable.

Pegula made the same mistake he did with the Sabres. He should have had a "scorched earth" policy from day 1 and ****-canned anyone with blood on their hands for any part of the 14 years or so before he took over. He's going to end up doing that anyway, and we will start rebuilding again next year or the year after when we should have started 2 years ago.

You would hope he will end up doing it anyway but with the Bills WTH knows? Three random guys from this board could have run this team from a basement better than the last decade and a half, not joking.

[Joe Fo Sho]

No one knows the inner workings of the organization so no one knows specifically how much input Brandon had into any specific decision. What we do know is this:
1. Brandon has created an organizational culture where a healthy bottom line is more important than winning. Marketable decisions are valued over ones that help the team.
2. Players, coaches, GM's and even ownership have changed over the last decade. The only thing that has remained constant over that time period is Russ Brandon having a leadership role in the organization.

Yes, the Pegulas and Whaley have blood on their hands, but given #2, defense of Russ Brandon is unfathomable to me. As long as he is here, the possibility remains that he could be involved in- or at least influencing- football decisions, and that is inexcusable.

Pegula made the same mistake he did with the Sabres. He should have had a "scorched earth" policy from day 1 and ****-canned anyone with blood on their hands for any part of the 14 years or so before he took over. He's going to end up doing that anyway, and we will start rebuilding again next year or the year after when we should have started 2 years ago.

I'd be all for getting rid of Russ if he were still in the position he was in over the last bunch of years when Ralph was owner. That's not the case anymore, at least I believe Pegula when he says that. A lot of people don't, which is fine, but can you answer my question?

Which decision did Russ make that has caused us to miss the playoffs since Pegula was hired and moved him to the non-football aspect of the team?

[OpIv37]

I'd be all for getting rid of Russ if he were still in the position he was in over the last bunch of years when Ralph was owner. That's not the case anymore, at least I believe Pegula when he says that. A lot of people don't, which is fine, but can you answer my question?

Which decision did Russ make that has caused us to miss the playoffs since Pegula was hired and moved him to the non-football aspect of the team?

Again, no one knows the inner workings of the team. There are probably only 10 people in the world close enough to the situation to answer that question, and none of them post here, and if they did, they wouldn't answer as long as they value their jobs.

Just because Brandon's position is technically "non-football" doesn't automatically preclude him from influencing football decisions. The only way to ensure that he doesn't is to get rid of him.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Again, no one knows the inner workings of the team. There are probably only 10 people in the world close enough to the situation to answer that question, and none of them post here, and if they did, they wouldn't answer as long as they value their jobs.

"We don't know what he does, but we want him fired."

That's just ridiculous.


Just because Brandon's position is technically "non-football" doesn't automatically preclude him from influencing football decisions. The only way to ensure that he doesn't is to get rid of him.

Well one way to ensure that is to reduce his responsibilities to only non-football related tasks, which is what Pegula said he did.

[OpIv37]

"We don't know what he does, but we want him fired."

That's just ridiculous.



Well one way to ensure that is to reduce his responsibilities to only non-football related tasks, which is what Pegula said he did.

I didn't say we don't know what he does. What I said was that we don't know how much influence he had over specific decisions. You complain that people aren't answering your question, then as soon as someone does, you spin their words.

Yes, technically he does not have "football related" tasks. But you don't know if he has Pegula's ear on football issues (Rex is much more marketable than any of the other coaches available at the time). You don't know if he pressures Whaley on football issues. Hell, you don't know if Whaley asks him for advice.

As long as Russ is here, a marketable product will be valued over a quality one. As long as Russ is here, there is no guarantee that he isn't interfering on football issues. That's why he needs to go.

- - - Updated - - -


"We don't know what he does, but we want him fired."

That's just ridiculous.



Well one way to ensure that is to reduce his responsibilities to only non-football related tasks, which is what Pegula said he did.

I didn't say we don't know what he does. What I said was that we don't know how much influence he had over specific decisions. You complain that people aren't answering your question, then as soon as someone does, you spin their words.

Yes, technically he does not have "football related" tasks. But you don't know if he has Pegula's ear on football issues (Rex is much more marketable than any of the other coaches available at the time). You don't know if he pressures Whaley on football issues. Hell, you don't know if Whaley asks him for advice.

As long as Russ is here, a marketable product will be valued over a quality one. As long as Russ is here, there is no guarantee that he isn't interfering on football issues. That's why he needs to go.

[trapezeus]

joe fo sho is russ fo sho. one guy defending a leech.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I didn't say we don't know what he does. What I said was that we don't know how much influence he had over specific decisions. You complain that people aren't answering your question, then as soon as someone does, you spin their words.

I must have missed the part where you answered my question.


Yes, technically he does not have "football related" tasks. But you don't know if he has Pegula's ear on football issues (Rex is much more marketable than any of the other coaches available at the time). You don't know if he pressures Whaley on football issues. Hell, you don't know if Whaley asks him for advice.

You don't know either, yet you want him fired. Sounds irrational.


As long as Russ is here, a marketable product will be valued over a quality one.

Are you saying a winning organization isn't marketable?

[Joe Fo Sho]

joe fo sho is russ fo sho. one guy defending a leech.

Eh, I just don't like getting my pitchfork out when I'm not certain there's a need for it.

But whatever, if that's what you want to do. Go ahead and start your GoFundMe page for the billboard.

[OpIv37]

Eh, I just don't like getting my pitchfork out when I'm not certain there's a need for it.

But whatever, if that's what you want to do. Go ahead and start your GoFundMe page for the billboard.

Well you can keep doing the same thing while expecting different results. That usually works well.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well you can keep doing the same thing while expecting different results. That usually works well.

Is Russ' job the same with Pegula as it was with Ralph? If not, then it's not really doing the same thing is it? That's my point, I already said that I'd want Russ gone if he was in the same role he was in under Ralph.

Russ isn't coming up with terrible game plans. He isn't drafting injured players. He isn't trading future draft picks for flashy receivers. He isn't forcing players into 10 personal foul penalties every game. He isn't refusing to throw to wide open receivers.

He's making deals with New Era for naming rights for the stadium. He's making deals with business for advertising in the stadium. He's determining prices of season tickets. He's doing all of the behind the scenes crap that I don't care about, and he's actually good at it from what I gather.

But go ahead and act like firing him will solve all of our problems.

[coastal]

Like I said... oh never mind.

[OpIv37]

Is Russ' job the same with Pegula as it was with Ralph? If not, then it's not really doing the same thing is it? That's my point, I already said that I'd want Russ gone if he was in the same role he was in under Ralph.

Russ isn't coming up with terrible game plans. He isn't drafting injured players. He isn't trading future draft picks for flashy receivers. He isn't forcing players into 10 personal foul penalties every game. He isn't refusing to throw to wide open receivers.

He's making deals with New Era for naming rights for the stadium. He's making deals with business for advertising in the stadium. He's determining prices of season tickets. He's doing all of the behind the scenes crap that I don't care about, and he's actually good at it from what I gather.

But go ahead and act like firing him will solve all of our problems.

You think he's the only one who can set ticket prices and sell naming rights? Please.

He's the one constant over the last decade of suckage. We know he's bad at football. As long as he's here, we have no idea if he does or doesn't influence football decisions. And he's the one who created the culture where a marketable move trumps a winning move, which is the most damning thing of all.

[OpIv37]

Oh and there is no single move that will solve all this team's problems. That's not a reason to not make the move.

[cookie G]

I'd be all for getting rid of Russ if he were still in the position he was in over the last bunch of years when Ralph was owner. That's not the case anymore, at least I believe Pegula when he says that. A lot of people don't, which is fine, but can you answer my question?

He wouldn't be interviewing potential coaches if he no longer had that power. He wouldn't be one of the 2 advisors to the team owners in the coaching decision..if he didn't have that power.

You want to pretend it isn't true, but anyone looking at it, objectively and honestly would say he wields at least influential power, if not direct power, in head coaching decisions.

People want to close their eyes to the power he used in getting Rex here...that's fine..its not very honest, and intentionally ignorant..but that's for them.



Which decision did Russ make that has caused us to miss the playoffs since Pegula was hired and moved him to the non-football aspect of the team?


The decision to hire Rex definitely kept them out of the playoffs last season and most likely this season.

And set this team back several years. In most cases, that's enough. Except Buffalo. Tom Donahoe got 5 years. Many other GMs get less if they don't have a play off team.

But the question really isn't...why should he be fired, the question is..why should he be retained?

He became defacto GM in 2008, when Marv went into retirement.
In 2010, after acting as defacto GM for 2 years, he was promoted to a supervisory position OVER the GM, the GM HE selected.
In 2013, while acting as president, he was ACTIVELY involved in teh selection of the new coach...and after an astounding 4 interviews were conducted...he hired his buddy from Syracuse.
In 2015, he was again an active part of the new coaching decision..with similar results.

So.. after forgetting this nonsense that he's "not participating in football decisions"...

it comes down to this..

He has been in a position of power of GM or higher for a period of 9 years. And in those 9 years, what has he done to make this a better football team?

Whether through personnel moves, GM hires, coaching hires or anything else he has authority to do..and has exercised...what has he done to improve this football team?

The period of asking what has he done wrong is long passed. His grace period was over years ago.

The question is...what has he done right?

[Mace]

Just to point out, Brandon's team title is "Managing Partner and President", his Sabres and Americans title is "President".

[OpIv37]

Just to point out, Brandon's team title is "Managing Partner and President", his Sabres and Americans title is "President".

The only way it works is if Brandon has no control over sports operations AND isn't the direct supervisor of anyone who does have direct control. Those titles certainly don't convince me that my last statement is how things really are.

[Mace]

The only way it works is if Brandon has no control over sports operations AND isn't the direct supervisor of anyone who does have direct control. Those titles certainly don't convince me that my last statement is how things really are.

Managing partner says a lot about influence. I've said enough about it in my previous posts in the thread. You can't be "managing" partner and have no control or influence because you're busy saying "ok"to Tim Murray or dabbling in concession contracts.

[bob86]

As far as Brandon being Managing Partner of the Bills, it is my guess as a business entity, the Buffalo Bills are organized as a Family Limited Partnership (FLP) or something akin to it. A FLP is an estate planning tool that has become popular in recent years. It is used in place of or in association with a trust. Basically, the ownership interests of the Bills are broken into various pieces and each piece placed in a limited partnership. There can be any number of limited partners (anywhere from 1 to 20 or more) that are spread among various family members. A FLP can be sort of shell game with various limited partner interests and their corresponding values moved around (normally in the ownership family) as the need arises. The one legal entity holding the whole group of limited partners together is the general partner. Normally, there is only one general partner and under state law and IRS rules the general partner has management control over the business, with the limited partners having limited input. With that said, in almost all FLPs, the managing partner is little more than a figurehead, needed only for legal purposes, in reality the head of the family makes all the major business decisions even though he be only a “limited partner.”

[Joe Fo Sho]

The decision to hire Rex definitely kept them out of the playoffs last season and most likely this season.

What makes you think this was a playoff team last year/this year?

[Joe Fo Sho]

You think he's the only one who can set ticket prices and sell naming rights? Please.

He's the one constant over the last decade of suckage. We know he's bad at football. As long as he's here, we have no idea if he does or doesn't influence football decisions. And he's the one who created the culture where a marketable move trumps a winning move, which is the most damning thing of all.

Since Pegula has been hired, what football-move would you say was knowingly made as a marketable decision over a thought-to-be-good football decision?

[cookie G]

Since Pegula has been hired, what football-move would you say was knowingly made as a marketable decision over a thought-to-be-good football decision?

Why don't you just answer my question.

[YardRat]

You think he's the only one who can set ticket prices and sell naming rights? Please.

He's the one constant over the last decade of suckage. We know he's bad at football. As long as he's here, we have no idea if he does or doesn't influence football decisions. And he's the one who created the culture where a marketable move trumps a winning move, which is the most damning thing of all.

That's not true.

Bud Carpenter has been with the team going back to the 80's. Jim Overdorf has been with them over 20 years.

[YardRat]

He wouldn't be interviewing potential coaches if he no longer had that power. He wouldn't be one of the 2 advisors to the team owners in the coaching decision..if he didn't have that power.

You want to pretend it isn't true, but anyone looking at it, objectively and honestly would say he wields at least influential power, if not direct power, in head coaching decisions.

People want to close their eyes to the power he used in getting Rex here...that's fine..its not very honest, and intentionally ignorant..but that's for them.



The decision to hire Rex definitely kept them out of the playoffs last season and most likely this season.

And set this team back several years. In most cases, that's enough. Except Buffalo. Tom Donahoe got 5 years. Many other GMs get less if they don't have a play off team.

But the question really isn't...why should he be fired, the question is..why should he be retained?

He became defacto GM in 2008, when Marv went into retirement.
In 2010, after acting as defacto GM for 2 years, he was promoted to a supervisory position OVER the GM, the GM HE selected.
In 2013, while acting as president, he was ACTIVELY involved in teh selection of the new coach...and after an astounding 4 interviews were conducted...he hired his buddy from Syracuse.
In 2015, he was again an active part of the new coaching decision..with similar results.

So.. after forgetting this nonsense that he's "not participating in football decisions"...

it comes down to this..

He has been in a position of power of GM or higher for a period of 9 years. And in those 9 years, what has he done to make this a better football team?

Whether through personnel moves, GM hires, coaching hires or anything else he has authority to do..and has exercised...what has he done to improve this football team?

The period of asking what has he done wrong is long passed. His grace period was over years ago.

The question is...what has he done right?


To be fair, as owner pro temp during Ralph's final few years Brandon oversaw a franchise that was built and ready to contend for the playoffs with a dominant defense and solid special teams. The only thing they needed was an average QB and one or two offensive linemen. The reality is, the only difference between Denver and Buffalo last season was a coaching hire and what direction the new coach took the team. Now, I tend to be a half-apologist for Brandon because I respect what he has done from a business management standpoint but I'll re-iterate...even I think the Wrecks hire has his marketing-stank fingerprints all over it, and if he really did influence the Pegula's to move in that direction there should be a conscious effort to publicly remove him from any and all actual football-related decisions.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Why don't you just answer my question.

My point is that he's in a new role, that doesn't involve the football side of the team. You can list all of the garbage football decisions you want, and you'd be right. No one can argue that.

He's screwed up a lot in the past, you'd have to be an idiot not to see that. He's also done some good things for the business side of this team, and you'd have to be an idiot not to see that. He's in a business role now, which seems fine to me.

Why don't you answer my question now. Why do you think the Bills had the potential to be a playoff team last year and this year?

[Joe Fo Sho]

That's not true.

Bud Carpenter has been with the team going back to the 80's. Jim Overdorf has been with them over 20 years.

We should fire them, too. Just because, ya know?

Is there anyone else we can blame for our failures? Is the midget trainer still here? Any secretaries or janitors that have been here for longer than 5 years?

[OpIv37]

Since Pegula has been hired, what football-move would you say was knowingly made as a marketable decision over a thought-to-be-good football decision?

Rex.

Trading for McCoy.

hosing the 2016 cap by bringing in McCoy and Clay in 2015.

[OpIv37]

We should fire them, too. Just because, ya know?

Is there anyone else we can blame for our failures? Is the midget trainer still here? Any secretaries or janitors that have been here for longer than 5 years?
Don't know much about Carpenter but Overdorf should be fired too. The cap has been a mess for this team. It's either stuffing $20 million in a mattress or being unable to make moves because of all the dead cap.

[Mace]

My point is that he's in a new role, that doesn't involve the football side of the team.

Well, then you are saying he will not be a part of the next GM or Coaching search ?

[Mace]

Don't know much about Carpenter but Overdorf should be fired too. The cap has been a mess for this team. It's either stuffing $20 million in a mattress or being unable to make moves because of all the dead cap.

Dunno about that one. Overdorf fits in the people Whaley tells him to.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Rex.

Trading for McCoy.

hosing the 2016 cap by bringing in McCoy and Clay in 2015.

Trading for a running back who had over 3600 yards from scrimmage over the 2 previous years isn't a football decision?

Just because Rex didn't work out doesn't mean they valued his marketing value over his football unintelligence.

You think Clay really helped market this team? Really?

- - - Updated - - -


Don't know much about Carpenter

That's certainly no reason not to call for his head on a stick, right?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well, then you are saying he will not be a part of the next GM or Coaching search ?

I'm saying that his role today is to make business decisions while Whaley makes football decisions.

[Mace]

I'm saying that his role today is to make business decisions while Whaley makes football decisions.

Ok, but this comes back to how influential he is in Pegula's ear regarding football decisions and speaks to what he's done previously in terms of involvement with the Ryan search. If he was pure business he'd have no involvement in replacing Whaley or Ryan this time then.

If he'll be involved with next coach/gm search, it means they turned to him in football matters.

[OpIv37]

Trading for a running back who had over 3600 yards from scrimmage over the 2 previous years isn't a football decision?

Just because Rex didn't work out doesn't mean they valued his marketing value over his football unintelligence.

You think Clay really helped market this team? Really?

- - - Updated - - -



That's certainly no reason not to call for his head on a stick, right?

Trading for an RB is problematic period. It's the easiest position to fill and has the shortest life span.

And yes, Clay helped market the team. We got him from a div rival and he plays a position this team has struggled to fill for 20 years.

They absolutely valued the ability to market Rex. The coaching choices available weren't great when Rex was hired. Might as well grab the biggest name and put asses in seats.

[cookie G]

My point is that he's in a new role, that doesn't involve the football side of the team. You can list all of the garbage football decisions you want, and you'd be right. No one can argue that.

He's screwed up a lot in the past, you'd have to be an idiot not to see that. He's also done some good things for the business side of this team, and you'd have to be an idiot not to see that. He's in a business role now, which seems fine to me.

Why don't you answer my question now. Why do you think the Bills had the potential to be a playoff team last year and this year?

Last chance...care to answer it or continue to dodge?

[OpIv37]

I'm saying that his role today is to make business decisions while Whaley makes football decisions.
By your own admission, Brandon is bad at football decisions. As long as he is here, you have no way of knowing how much influence he has over football decisions. Why would you be willing to take that risk? And why don't you want to see him held accountable for his bad football decisions? The guy actually got promoted after making football decisions that you admit were bad.

[Joe Fo Sho]

By your own admission, Brandon is bad at football decisions. As long as he is here, you have no way of knowing how much influence he has over football decisions. Why would you be willing to take that risk? And why don't you want to see him held accountable for his bad football decisions? The guy actually got promoted after making football decisions that you admit were bad.

Promoted by Ralph. His football duties were stripped by Pegula.

Either way, this argument is pointless. We can bicker 'til the cows come home, but we both know Russ is going nowhere.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Trading for an RB is problematic period. It's the easiest position to fill and has the shortest life span.

3,600 yards. That's meaningless on the field.


And yes, Clay helped market the team. We got him from a div rival and he plays a position this team has struggled to fill for 20 years.

So it was a football decision then. We needed a tight end, a position you admit we struggled at.


They absolutely valued the ability to market Rex. The coaching choices available weren't great when Rex was hired. Might as well grab the biggest name and put asses in seats.

This is something neither of us can prove. I genuinely think Pegula thought Rex could win here, you don't.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Ok, but this comes back to how influential he is in Pegula's ear regarding football decisions and speaks to what he's done previously in terms of involvement with the Ryan search. If he was pure business he'd have no involvement in replacing Whaley or Ryan this time then.

If he'll be involved with next coach/gm search, it means they turned to him in football matters.

Russ will not be responsible for making the decision. I'm pretty convinced of that.

If he is, I'll get out my pitchforks with the rest of you.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Last chance...care to answer it or continue to dodge?

You really need me to list his business accomplishments for the Buffalo Bills?

He was involved in the search for a new owner, keeping the Bills local and selling them for a record value.
Recent improvements to the stadium.
Naming rights for the stadium.
The Toronto deal was fantastic for business.
Record number of season tickets sold last year.

He's good enough at his job that the Raiders tried poaching him recently.

[Mace]

Russ will not be responsible for making the decision. I'm pretty convinced of that.

If he is, I'll get out my pitchforks with the rest of you.

You're still ducking the football influence significance. A pure business guy (as you assert) would not be involved in the process.

[OpIv37]

3,600 yards. That's meaningless on the field.



So it was a football decision then. We needed a tight end, a position you admit we struggled at.



This is something neither of us can prove. I genuinely think Pegula thought Rex could win here, you don't.

First, he hasn't come close to performing at the 3600 yard level yet. Second, he still plays the easiest position to fill with the shortest shelf life. Giving up assets for a running back is dumb, but it gave us a big, marketable name.

Bringing in a TE was a football decision. Doing it at the expense of the 2016 cap was a marketing decision. All of the 2015 decisions pre-determined that the best we could do in the 2016 off season was to maintain the status quo. But it got the fans excited in Pegula's first off-season as owner.

[OpIv37]

Either way, this argument is pointless. We can bicker 'til the cows come home, but we both know Russ is going nowhere.

And this is the unfortunate reality of the Buffalo Bills. People who make bad football decisions but bring in lots of money are promoted.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You're still ducking the football influence significance. A pure business guy (as you assert) would not be involved in the process.

To me, if we're going to be looking for a new GM and coach, the best scenario would be for Pegula to pick a GM and for the GM to hire the coach. I have no idea if that's what's going to happen. I do know that whoever gets hired, Russ will be at the press conference and there will inevitably be a report that Russ saw the new GM in the hallway during the interview process and told Pegula that he liked his shirt and this board will explode with hatred for how much influence Russ has over Pegula.

[Joe Fo Sho]

First, he hasn't come close to performing at the 3600 yard level yet. Second, he still plays the easiest position to fill with the shortest shelf life. Giving up assets for a running back is dumb, but it gave us a big, marketable name.

Good football players have marketable names. Your not really breaking any new ground.

I was OK with the trade for McCoy, but was in the same boat as you as I was against his extension. Good football teams have been known to pay for running backs, though. It's not completely unheard of.

Denver signed Peyton Manning, he was one of the biggest names in football. Was that a marketing decision? You probably would say it was if Peyton never recovered from his neck injury. That's the risk you take with any player you sign/trade for. If a player underperforms, it doesn't mean the intention of signing him was not valid.


Bringing in a TE was a football decision. Doing it at the expense of the 2016 cap was a marketing decision. All of the 2015 decisions pre-determined that the best we could do in the 2016 off season was to maintain the status quo. But it got the fans excited in Pegula's first off-season as owner.

I think you're just taking decisions that turned out to be bad football decisions and spinning them to be made solely for marketing purposes. If Tyrod wasn't garbage maybe we'd be able to make use of Clay/McCoy/Player X.

- - - Updated - - -


And this is the unfortunate reality of the Buffalo Bills. People who make bad football decisions but bring in lots of money are promoted.

Yes, that's what Ralph did.

[cookie G]

You really need me to list his business accomplishments for the Buffalo Bills?

He was involved in the search for a new owner, keeping the Bills local and selling them for a record value.
Recent improvements to the stadium.
Naming rights for the stadium.
The Toronto deal was fantastic for business.
Record number of season tickets sold last year.

He's good enough at his job that the Raiders tried poaching him recently.

No...I asked..in his 9 years as either the GM or in a supervisory capacity of both the GM's and coaches...

what has he done to improve the football team?

You couldn't come up with an answer.

And that statement speaks volumes.

But you want to keep the guy around to pick the next head coach, and/or GM, if Whaley gets canned too.

I can hardly wait for his next selection...

Coach Carter
Al Pacino
The Assistant Coach from Remember the Titans
Mad Dog Mahoney (google it..old guy reference).

[cookie G]

To be fair, as owner pro temp during Ralph's final few years Brandon oversaw a franchise that was built and ready to contend for the playoffs with a dominant defense and solid special teams. The only thing they needed was an average QB and one or two offensive linemen. The reality is, the only difference between Denver and Buffalo last season was a coaching hire and what direction the new coach took the team. Now, I tend to be a half-apologist for Brandon because I respect what he has done from a business management standpoint but I'll re-iterate...even I think the Wrecks hire has his marketing-stank fingerprints all over it, and if he really did influence the Pegula's to move in that direction there should be a conscious effort to publicly remove him from any and all actual football-related decisions.

I agree that the team was close to making a playoff run, the pieces needed were getting smaller. Getting an OC that didn't use a 180 lb scat back as a FB would be a step in the right direction. Someone to leave the defense intact would be another.

So what happened?

Hue Jackson publicly stated that he "aced" the interview and was confident he got the job. He was adamant about bringing Schwartz back, because he loved his defense. Rumors are he had already approached Schwartz. According to him, people wanted to keep the defense intact. (THAT worked out well).

The unsubstantiated rumor is that Whaley was asked to rank the coaching candidates and he had Hue Jackson at no. 1. How true it is..idk.

Then...Sexy Rexy becomes available, after his stellar 4-12 campaign with the Jets.

Pegulas become infatuated with his folksy ways.

Russ falls in love with the marketing possibilities..and the increased face time on ESPN and NFLN. (As if fielding a playoff team wouldn't increase face time).

I've always wondered what Whaley's thoughts were in teh selection process, if he tried to dissuade the Pegula's from hiring Rex. I mean...when the head coach doesn't report to the GM...a red flag is raised.

But to me..it doesn't really merely stink of a marketing move, its pretty much a certainty, at least from Russ' perspective. And I think...apparently a playoff team isn't a good enough marketing gimmick.

Maybe more than any other time, this team cries out for an outside consultant, with actual experience in running a football team.

[Joe Fo Sho]

No...I asked..in his 9 years as either the GM or in a supervisory capacity of both the GM's and coaches...

what has he done to improve the football team?

You couldn't come up with an answer.

I already answered that.

It's nothing. That's not what I'm arguing, obviously you don't see that.

[OpIv37]

Good football players have marketable names. Your not really breaking any new ground.

I was OK with the trade for McCoy, but was in the same boat as you as I was against his extension. Good football teams have been known to pay for running backs, though. It's not completely unheard of.

Denver signed Peyton Manning, he was one of the biggest names in football. Was that a marketing decision? You probably would say it was if Peyton never recovered from his neck injury. That's the risk you take with any player you sign/trade for. If a player underperforms, it doesn't mean the intention of signing him was not valid.



I think you're just taking decisions that turned out to be bad football decisions and spinning them to be made solely for marketing purposes. If Tyrod wasn't garbage maybe we'd be able to make use of Clay/McCoy/Player X.

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, that's what Ralph did.

This is what you're missing: The decisions that they made were ones that were easy to market, so whether or not they work on the field becomes secondary. They're still gonna make money off of it.

Of course, neither of us know exactly what their internal thought process is. For me, I have a hard time believing that giving up assets and taking a big cap hit for an RB is the best football decision. I have a hard time believing that hosing the 2016 cap to sign Clay in 2015 is the best football decision.

[Joe Fo Sho]

This is what you're missing: The decisions that they made were ones that were easy to market, so whether or not they work on the field becomes secondary. They're still gonna make money off of it.

Of course, neither of us know exactly what their internal thought process is. For me, I have a hard time believing that giving up assets and taking a big cap hit for an RB is the best football decision. I have a hard time believing that hosing the 2016 cap to sign Clay in 2015 is the best football decision.

We probably shouldn't sign anybody then, as having a full 53-man roster could be miscontrued as a marketing decision. Maybe we can trade all of our 1st round draft picks away, as those are probably the highest selling jerseys we have each year. Let all of our talented players walk without signing them, as that might increase revenue. It's the only way to make sure the moves we make are not marketing based.

[OpIv37]

We probably shouldn't sign anybody then, as having a full 53-man roster could be miscontrued as a marketing decision. Maybe we can trade all of our 1st round draft picks away, as those are probably the highest selling jerseys we have each year. Let all of our talented players walk without signing them, as that might increase revenue. It's the only way to make sure the moves we make are not marketing based.

Well ok- ignore the specific examples that I brought up and use generalized hyperbole instead.

The three biggest moves since Pegula took over were Rex, McCoy and hosing the 2016 cap to sign Clay in 2015. All three are questionable from a football perspective (and I don't just mean in hindsight- there was reason to be concerned at the time they were made). All three moves are easily marketable. Once again, we don't know the inner workings of the team and this is no smoking gun, but it's one hell of a coincidence.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well ok- ignore the specific examples that I brought up and use generalized hyperbole instead.

The three biggest moves since Pegula took over were Rex, McCoy and hosing the 2016 cap to sign Clay in 2015. All three are questionable from a football perspective (and I don't just mean in hindsight- there was reason to be concerned at the time they were made). All three moves are easily marketable. Once again, we don't know the inner workings of the team and this is no smoking gun, but it's one hell of a coincidence.

You could argue that they are easily football based decisions as well.

[OpIv37]

You could argue that they are easily football based decisions as well.

They're 3 for 3 on marketing decisions and 0 for 3 on football ones.

And again, I don't see how giving up resources and taking a big cap hit for the position that has the shortest shelf life and is the easiest to replace constitutes being "football based." I don't see how hiring a coach who creates off the field controversy and had performance that regressed for 3 consecutive years is "football based." I don't see how hosing the 2016 cap to make big moves in 2015 is a "football based" decision.

[Joe Fo Sho]

They're 3 for 3 on marketing decisions and 0 for 3 on football ones.

Bad football teams make bad football decisions.

https://media.giphy.com/media/tANpI4H9zlv1u/giphy.gif

[OpIv37]

Bad football teams make bad football decisions.

https://media.giphy.com/media/tANpI4H9zlv1u/giphy.gif

Bad but marketable football decisions. Which is why Russ Brandon gets promoted instead of being held accountable for football decisions that you admitted were bad.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Bad but marketable football decisions. Which is why Russ Brandon gets promoted instead of being held accountable for football decisions that you admitted were bad.

So Russ is the one responsible for signing Rex, Clay, and trading for McCoy?

What are we paying Whaley for?

[OpIv37]

So Russ is the one responsible for signing Rex, Clay, and trading for McCoy?

What are we paying Whaley for?

Who do you think hired Whaley? And if Whaley made those decisions, why isn't he being held accountable for them? The only possible reason is because they made the team money even though they didn't lead to wins.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Who do you think hired Whaley? And if Whaley made those decisions, why isn't he being held accountable for them? The only possible reason is because they made the team money even though they didn't lead to wins.

You think Whaley should be fired for the McCoy trade and Clay signing? I don't even think those decisions crack his top 5 bad decisions.

But seriously, you don't think Whaley is on the hot seat right now? You can't just fire the guy immediately after he makes the decision you want to fire him for. You have to let it play out and blow up in his face first. This is probably coming in the near future.

[OpIv37]

You think Whaley should be fired for the McCoy trade and Clay signing? I don't even think those decisions crack his top 5 bad decisions.

But seriously, you don't think Whaley is on the hot seat right now? You can't just fire the guy immediately after he makes the decision you want to fire him for. You have to let it play out and blow up in his face first. This is probably coming in the near future.

Well, if those decisions aren't even in his top 5 bad decisions, why hasn't he been fired already? He's had plenty of time for things to blow up in his face.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well, if those decisions aren't even in his top 5 bad decisions, why hasn't he been fired already? He's had plenty of time for things to blow up in his face.

Firing your GM must be bad for marketing.

[OpIv37]

Firing your GM must be bad for marketing.

Or, maybe his decisions are marketable so lack of football results and making 5 decisions worse than trading for McCoy and hosing the 2016 cap are irrelevant in an organizational culture that values the bottom line over football victories.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Or, maybe his decisions are marketable so lack of football results and making 5 decisions worse than trading for McCoy and hosing the 2016 cap are irrelevant in an organizational culture that values the bottom line over football victories.

Or maybe he's made some good decisions, too. Ever think about stuff like that? Good stuff that people do? Maybe Pegula doesn't just harp on every bad decision he's ever made like some of us fans do and is able to see the big picture. A picture that had us at 8-8 at the end of last year with the expectations of playoffs this year. Since we haven't been mathematically eliminated yet, he's still got a job. Maybe that changes in the near future.

Well, either that or Russ Brandon is constantly running his hands through Terry's hair and telling him everything is going to be alright.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Just out of curiousity, where does the signing of Richie Incognito fall into your list of marketing/football decisions?

Was there a less marketable person on the face of the planet, besides Ray Rice, when we signed that guy?

[OpIv37]

Or maybe he's made some good decisions, too. Ever think about stuff like that? Good stuff that people do? Maybe Pegula doesn't just harp on every bad decision he's ever made like some of us fans do and is able to see the big picture. A picture that had us at 8-8 at the end of last year with the expectations of playoffs this year. Since we haven't been mathematically eliminated yet, he's still got a job. Maybe that changes in the near future.

Well, either that or Russ Brandon is constantly running his hands through Terry's hair and telling him everything is going to be alright.

Good decisions that don't result in wins aren't really that good.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Good decisions that don't result in wins aren't really that good.

Good decisions mixed with bad decisions result in a mediocre team. We've been mediocre for years.


Just out of curiousity, where does the signing of Richie Incognito fall into your list of marketing/football decisions?

Was there a less marketable person on the face of the planet, besides Ray Rice, when we signed that guy?

[OpIv37]

Just out of curiousity, where does the signing of Richie Incognito fall into your list of marketing/football decisions?

Was there a less marketable person on the face of the planet, besides Ray Rice, when we signed that guy?

That would have been one football decision overshadowed by 3 high-profile marketing decisions. It was also a decision made out of desperation because we needed OL help and there wasn't much available.

Also, remember I said "Marketing decisions are valued over football ones." That doesn't automatically mean that no football decisions will ever be made, although you keep trying to steer the conversation that way because it's the only way your narrative works.

[SpikedLemonade]

I hate Russ

[Joe Fo Sho]

That would have been one football decision overshadowed by 3 high-profile marketing decisions. It was also a decision made out of desperation because we needed OL help and there wasn't much available.

It's the 1st high profile coach we've signed since I can remember. Marrone, Gailey, Williams, Jauron, etc.

Was Russ in charge of those coaching hires? Why did he hire such boring names?


Also, remember I said "Marketing decisions are valued over football ones." That doesn't automatically mean that no football decisions will ever be made, although you keep trying to steer the conversation that way because it's the only way your narrative works.

It's easy to claim that a football decision that didn't work out was based on something other than football.

[OpIv37]

It's the 1st high profile coach we've signed since I can remember. Marrone, Gailey, Williams, Jauron, etc.

Was Russ in charge of those coaching hires? Why did he hire such boring names?



It's easy to claim that a football decision that didn't work out was based on something other than football.

The boring names were hired under Ralph. He protected the bottom line by spending as little as possible. Red was hired under Pegula. He protects the bottom line by investing in marketable assets. Either way, it's still a Russ Brandon culture of valuing the bottom line over winning.

And it's not "a football decision that didn't work out." the 3 biggest decisions made in the last two years all turned out to be much better for marketing than for football. You are refusing to see that this is a pattern.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The boring names were hired under Ralph. He protected the bottom line by spending as little as possible. Red was hired under Pegula. He protects the bottom line by investing in marketable assets. Either way, it's still a Russ Brandon culture of valuing the bottom line over winning.

So you can protect the bottom line by hiring undesirable coaches...or very desirable coaches. Is there anyone we could have hired that would not have protected the bottom line?

Even if we hired a great coach, we would have protected the bottom line by winning and getting to the playoffs. Who do you hire that ruins the bottom line?


And it's not "a football decision that didn't work out." the 3 biggest decisions made in the last two years all turned out to be much better for marketing than for football. You are refusing to see that this is a pattern.

What I'm refusing to do is lump the last 2 years under Pegula to the last 20 years under Ralph.

[OpIv37]

So you can protect the bottom line by hiring undesirable coaches...or very desirable coaches. Is there anyone we could have hired that would not have protected the bottom line?

Even if we hired a great coach, we would have protected the bottom line by winning and getting to the playoffs. Who do you hire that ruins the bottom line?



What I'm refusing to do is lump the last 2 years under Pegula to the last 20 years under Ralph.
If we had hired a great coach, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the team would be winning and would have a healthy bottom line. But we don't. We either hire no name coaches to save money or marketable coaches to make money. Either way, the bottom line is healthy while the team still sucks.

You shouldn't lump the last two years under Pegula to the previous 20 Ralph. You should lump the last 2 years under Brandon with the previous 8 years under Brandon because it's the same ****. Garbage on the field but no one is held accountable because the bottom line is healthy. The only thing that changed when Pegula took over was the method of keeping the bottom line healthy.

And for that matter, I don't know why you're even bringing up the previous 20 years when I've been talking about 3
Decisions made AFTER Pegula. You sure deflect a lot.

[Joe Fo Sho]

If we had hired a great coach, we wouldn't be having this discussion because the team would be winning and would have a healthy bottom line. But we don't. We either hire no name coaches to save money or marketable coaches to make money. Either way, the bottom line is healthy while the team still sucks.

Pegula has hired 1 coach, that's not a pattern. The Bills have hired 1 marketable coach in the last decade, that's not a pattern.

I'll ask it again, what hire would have ruined the bottom line?


And for that matter, I don't know why you're even bringing up the previous 20 years when I've been talking about 3
Decisions made AFTER Pegula. You sure deflect a lot.

If you just talk about the last 2 years, how many moves have been marketing based versus football based? Here are some moves we made.

Rex hired
LeSean trade/extension
Clay signing
Tyrod extension
Dareus extension
Incognito signing/extension
Glenn extension
Whaley extension
Roman firing
Hughes extension
Franchised Gilmore
Cut Karlos Williams
Signed Reggie Bush
Terminated the contract of Jim Schwartz
Kyle Williams extension
Signed Percy Harvin
Released Mario Williams
Released Fred Jackson


These are only a small fraction of our transactions, but I think these are probably the biggest, in no particular order. I probably missed some, too.

Where's the pattern?

[OpIv37]

The 3 biggest moves were all bad football moves but good marketing moves. I don't know why you are refusing to acknowledge that pattern.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The 3 biggest moves were all bad football moves but good marketing moves. I don't know why you are refusing to acknowledge that pattern.

I refuse to acknowledge that it proves anything, because it doesn't.

I also wouldn't say those are the biggest moves we've made. Rex is definitely, but the other 2...eh. Extending Dareus, Hughes, Glenn, releasing Mario, franchising Gilmore, terminating Jim Schwartz...I think those are bigger than signing Clay and probably bigger than McCoy too.

[OpIv37]

Well you can refuse to acknowledge it all you want, but Russ Brandon has created an organizational culture where the bottom line is valued over football success. This team has not won in the 10 years he's been in an executive position and they won't win until he's gone.

[coastal]

He can die

[Joe Fo Sho]

Well you can refuse to acknowledge it all you want, but Russ Brandon has created an organizational culture where the bottom line is valued over football success. This team has not won in the 10 years he's been in an executive position and they won't win until he's gone.

They won't win what? The Superbowl or a playoff game?

[OpIv37]

They won't win what? The Superbowl or a playoff game?

They definitely won't win the SB. I highly doubt they will even win enough games to make the playoffs. But as long as that bottom line is healthy....

[Joe Fo Sho]

I highly doubt they will even win enough games to make the playoffs.

I bet they do.

[OpIv37]

I bet they do.

0-11 with Brandon as an executive, going on 0-12

[Joe Fo Sho]

0-11 with Brandon as an executive, going on 0-12

0-1, going on the 2nd year under Pegula.

[OpIv37]

0-1, going on the 2nd year under Pegula.

Same **** different day. Balanced the books by not spending under Ralph, balances the books by investing in marketable assets with Pegula. Football be damned either way.

Oh and while it's a little off topic, Pegula is making the EXACT same mistakes with the Bills that he made with the Sabres. The Sabres are up and coming now, but Pegula had to learn his lesson the hard way and it set the team back 3-4 years. And those were painful years. The wheels are already in motion for the streak to hit 20.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Same **** different day. Balanced the books by not spending under Ralph, balances the books by investing in marketable assets with Pegula. Football be damned either way.

Oh and while it's a little off topic, Pegula is making the EXACT same mistakes with the Bills that he made with the Sabres. The Sabres are up and coming now, but Pegula had to learn his lesson the hard way and it set the team back 3-4 years. And those were painful years. The wheels are already in motion for the streak to hit 20.

I don't follow hockey, so I'll take your word on that.

I'm still willing to bet that the Bills make the playoffs while Russ is employed by them.

[Arm of Harm]

The downside of keeping Russ is the chance that he's still involved in football decisions. Or the chance that, even if he's technically removed from football decisions, that he'll still exert influence on the football side from time to time.

The upside to keeping him is that he might be doing a better job on the business side than his would-be replacement would do. Even if that upside exists, which it might not, Bills fans don't benefit from it. On the other hand, the more involvement Brandon has on football, the more he'll drag the team down. Even if he goes for very long periods of time without exerting influence on the football side, who's to say that pattern will continue? Especially if he thinks he sees a "big chance" to make what he believes will be a positive impact on the team?

If you're 100% sure that he can be successfully quarantined over on the business side then sure, maybe you keep him. But if there's even a 10% chance that he will continue his consistent pattern of polluting the organization with his own football input, then you get rid of him. He simply isn't doing enough good on the business side to make up for the risk that his input might be included on the football side.

[OpIv37]

Let's not sell Russ's business acumen short. I mean he did get a Buffalo based sportswear company to sponsor the stadium for a Buffalo based sports team. I mean, who saw that one coming?

[stuckincincy]

If you're 100% sure that he can be successfully quarantined over on the business side then sure, maybe you keep him. But if there's even a 10% chance that he will continue his consistent pattern of polluting the organization with his own football input, then you get rid of him. He simply isn't doing enough good on the business side to make up for the risk that his input might be included on the football side.

Given the NFL's tv ratings decline, the business side may gain in importance:

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/09/27/nfl-ratings-drop-across-the-board-in-week-3/

[trapezeus]

literally one article on declining TV rating. every time they parse out rights, the costs go up. and the playoffs and draftkings/gambling remains strong. they can keep shilling out a losing team and their revenues are a certainty.

[stuckincincy]

literally one article on declining TV rating. every time they parse out rights, the costs go up. and the playoffs and draftkings/gambling remains strong. they can keep shilling out a losing team and their revenues are a certainty.

Plenty of articles out there - search and find.

Sooner or later, some bunch of politicos will force meaningful "de-bundling", so to speak, of cable and satellite tv offerings. There are millions who don't give a rat's patoot about sports programming, who would drop ESPN, FSN etc. like a rock.

[trapezeus]

which is why the NFL network has the rights to show the highlights first and ESPN has been crushed on their pre game and post game shows. the underlying product is what people want and the NFL is parsing out all the digital, tv, radio on a tiered basis. and it still is such a huge advertising bonanza, that even declining ratings, still has a huge interest to smaller channels. they are fine. the imminent decline of the NFL is not today or tomorrow. it's 10-20 years if they don't keep the game moving at an interesting pace. but even as the game has gotten sloppier, more people than ever are gambling on it via vegas and fantasy. people are wildly vested in pro football, even if they aren't watching the games.

[Mace]

I'm all about parsing, it's a glorious word that needs to be used more often. Not to parse your post, but you maybe mean parcel ?

I like the word parcel too, if I might parcel your post in parsing.

[stuckincincy]

which is why the NFL network has the rights to show the highlights first and ESPN has been crushed on their pre game and post game shows. the underlying product is what people want and the NFL is parsing out all the digital, tv, radio on a tiered basis. and it still is such a huge advertising bonanza, that even declining ratings, still has a huge interest to smaller channels. they are fine. the imminent decline of the NFL is not today or tomorrow. it's 10-20 years if they don't keep the game moving at an interesting pace. but even as the game has gotten sloppier, more people than ever are gambling on it via vegas and fantasy. people are wildly vested in pro football, even if they aren't watching the games.

I don't think anyone is predicting the imminent decline of the NFL.

The broadcast networks and ESPN have large contracts with the NFL. While there are other avenues as you mention for folks to get their NFL jollies, as viewership on TV declines, advertisers certainly take note, and will not pay as much. I would guess the airers have contractual language that reduces the NFL's piece of the pie, then.

I recall the battle that was waged for years between Time-Warner cable and the NFL regarding NFLN. T-W was fine with offering it on a sports tier (those who want it, pay for it). The NFL wanted it on regular cable - because the actual and potential viewership would be much higher - and therefore, ad revenue at a higher rate.

[Night Train]

Russ Brandon has created an organizational culture where the bottom line is valued over football success.

Like he didn't learn that from Ralph and Littman. He's a good student.

[Arm of Harm]

I don't think anyone is predicting the imminent decline of the NFL.

The broadcast networks and ESPN have large contracts with the NFL. While there are other avenues as you mention for folks to get their NFL jollies, as viewership on TV declines, advertisers certainly take note, and will not pay as much. I would guess the airers have contractual language that reduces the NFL's piece of the pie, then.

I recall the battle that was waged for years between Time-Warner cable and the NFL regarding NFLN. T-W was fine with offering it on a sports tier (those who want it, pay for it). The NFL wanted it on regular cable - because the actual and potential viewership would be much higher - and therefore, ad revenue at a higher rate.

Twenty years ago, my favorite part of a televised football game was halftime. During halftime they'd give you a tour of games around the league. You felt like you were a bird in the sky, keeping an eye on a number of games at once.

That "tour of games" during halftime still exists. But it's been pared back so that they only show you one play per game. It's a shell of what it once was. Barely even worth watching at this point.

The decision to eliminate the bulk of the "tour of games" is part of a larger trend in the NFL. That trend consists of worsening the value proposition for the fans, with the clear expectation that fan support will stay the same or increase. "Worsening the value proposition" comes in many forms: increased advertising, increased ticket and PSL prices, increased costs for concessions, etc.

But there is another, more subtle trend at work as well. In the past, announcers were often chosen from among former players. Those guys know and love football, and both those things came through over the course of a game. Announcers are still frequently chosen from among former players. But now they are given "guidance" by the league, to a much greater extent than in the past. Typically this "guidance" takes the form of some marketing agenda or hype that the NFL wishes to promote. In-depth analysis of the game has largely been displaced by various marketing and promotion efforts. Not only is there an over-abundance of television advertising, but even when they're not taking a commercial break there's a certain amount of marketing of the league or its star players going on.

The players are represented by one organization: their union. The owners are represented by 32 individuals: themselves. There are millions of fans, and no organization to represent us. The players are in the strongest bargaining position, which is why the bulk of the NFL's revenues are allowed to flow through to them via the salary cap. The fans are in by far the weakest bargaining position, which is why we've been thrown under the bus. The only method fans have of exerting any influence at all is to vote with our feet. Stop doing anything which would generate revenue for the NFL. If the fans were represented by a union, we could collectively threaten to all walk out at once, unless the NFL pared back its in-game marketing efforts/hype, while also cutting back on television advertising. In the absence of a fans union, we can still hope that the NFL is taking notice of reduced viewership, and that it will respond by doing more for the fans in the future than it's done in the recent past.

[SpikedLemonade]

I'm all about parsing, it's a glorious word that needs to be used more often. Not to parse your post, but you maybe mean parcel ?

I like the word parcel too, if I might parcel your post in parsing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybh8wENUqQc

[Mace]

Must be nice to have as much free time to do what you want as you must have Spiked. But I don't. You act like a spoiled kid who didn't get his way. "But I WAAAAAAHnted MACE to be there."

So it goes, Veruca. Snarking on me for having to work for a living instead of indulging a spoiled adult kid, frankly annoys me, and I have a tendency to stay annoyed a long time. Kiss my ass.

[SpikedLemonade]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psrGtQ6GEYQ

[Joe Fo Sho]

This guy is running a clinic on how to use the YouTube search engine.

[SpikedLemonade]

This guy is running a clinic on how to use the YouTube search engine.

All from memory my friend.

I was a reggae DJ on the radio in a previous life.

[Mace]

All from memory my friend.

I was a reggae DJ on the radio in a previous life.

You actually have a job now in this one ?

[SpikedLemonade]

You actually have a job now in this one ?

THE COOL RULER....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPsMo4xDgEk

[Mace]

Next video....

[SpikedLemonade]

Next video....


BLOW ME

-- A person who lives very near to the sea

[Mace]

BLOW ME

-- A person who lives very near to the sea

I'd say the same but you're acting like the love of your life stood you up for a date, and that seems to be me, so you probably want to. Go fall in love with someone else and get obsessed with them, Veruca. We weren't meant to be.

[SpikedLemonade]

I'd say the same but you're acting like the love of your life stood you up for a date, and that seems to be me, so you probably want to. Go fall in love with someone else and get obsessed with them, Veruca. We weren't meant to be.

Mace, we all owe you so so so so much...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NohLpst8t0M

[swiper]

All from memory my friend.

I was a reggae DJ on the radio in a previous life.

Was that before or after you life as a gay unicorn?

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Was that before or after you life as a gay unicorn?

is there any other kind of unicorn?

[SpikedLemonade]

Was that before or after you life as a gay unicorn?

After

- - - Updated - - -


is there any other kind of unicorn?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZiLR0N95hg

[swiper]

is there any other kind of unicorn?

Spiked sees that horn as the perfect built-in ass-ramming dildo. Naturally ribbed and all.

He and shiva were gay unicorn cellmates in the fairy prison in their prior life.

[HHURRICANE]

Not to be Debbie Downer but is there another place for this thread if we AREN'T TALKING FOOTBALL?

[pats-were-right]

If Brandon is involved in any way in football decisions he should be fired but we don't know that he is. A lot of you talk like you know he is but the fact is you don't.

If he really is just the marketing guy he's doing his job. The stadium is full. I wouldn't fire him either.

Sorry, filling an NFL stadium that's not in FL? A trained monkey could do that.

[Mace]

I'll just say this, because I'm thinking it at the moment. I'm fine with Brandon marketing and businessing. I don't think he has anything he meddles with daily, football-wise. But I think he's going to have a loud voice when it comes to replacing Whaley or Ryan, because there aren't any other voices if something doesn't change, and I don't think he's got that knack whatever.

It's not real hard to look ahead to when choices need to be made, it's not real hard to conclude he'll "help" make them, and it's not real hard for me to say I want him having nothing whatever to do with it.

[Mace]

Not to be Debbie Downer but is there another place for this thread if we AREN'T TALKING FOOTBALL?

Can't blame me for the weirdo, all I did was have to work when he wanted me to come watch a Canadian football game.

[trapezeus]

mace that is exactly the problem and what he does. "oh, no one else is here, so i'll pop in and pick marrone, i'll tell the pegula's that they are right that rex is a great fit. i'll sign TO, I'll extend jauron. i'll be the gm." and he's never paid for that like everyone else in the NFL does by losing their jobs. he has had the senior most roles on the team and the team has been exactly the same. the team is either committed to being perpetually 7-9 or worse or Brandon needs to go entirely. no excuses. Very few NFL types are allowed to suck this long in a variety of positions with one team.

[SpikedLemonade]

They got bullets for Brandon Bafazane....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8U546a3KFk

[Mace]

They got bullets for Brandon Bafazane....

That's very nice. We're all edified by this pertinent information.

[SpikedLemonade]

That's very nice. We're all edified by this pertinent information.

Slave mentality again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLbEmFQ6h0Y

[Mace]

Slave mentality again.

We're all also edified by your dazzling use of fonts and youtube to express your thorough opinions. It's remarkably educational.

[SpikedLemonade]

We're all also edified by your dazzling use of fonts and youtube to express your thorough opinions. It's remarkably educational.

Slaves would think so due to their slavish mentality.

Is your employer buying you a new whip to hit you with for Christmas?

[feldspar]

Slaves would think so due to their slavish mentality.

Is your employer buying you a new whip to hit you with for Christmas?

Shut the **** up, moron.

[Mace]

Slaves would think so due to their slavish mentality.

Is your employer buying you a new whip to hit you with for Christmas?

Brandon is no good, I don't like him.

See, videochaps, that's an example of on topic.

I still don't like Brandon, but I can't blame him for much more than Rex Ryan. That's an example of current on topic information.

I'm guessing that some half wit playing with himself in panties, might not grasp these things, though he's grasping something else besides his bottle of hard booze because his posts have nothing to do with the topic. This is a way of insulting a pervert by his posts without insulting the poster.

And lastly, I don't spend a lot of my time working on my knees, but I'm guessing someone who vacuums like a hoover and can't grasp the idea of topics and threads, might not care if he hoped to beg for some.

I still blame Brandon for Ryan, and maybe some weirdo will work some fonts and videos here ? I sure can't tell.

[SpikedLemonade]

Shut the **** up, moron.

GO **** YOURSELF TRASH

[SpikedLemonade]

Brandon is no good, I don't like him.

See, videochaps, that's an example of on topic.

I still don't like Brandon, but I can't blame him for much more than Rex Ryan. That's an example of current on topic information.

I'm guessing that some half wit playing with himself in panties, might not grasp these things, though he's grasping something else besides his bottle of hard booze because his posts have nothing to do with the topic. This is a way of insulting a pervert by his posts without insulting the poster.

And lastly, I don't spend a lot of my time working on my knees, but I'm guessing someone who vacuums like a hoover and can't grasp the idea of topics and threads, might not care if he hoped to beg for some.

I still blame Brandon for Ryan, and maybe some weirdo will work some fonts and videos here ? I sure can't tell.

OK.

I guess.

However, will your employer give you some time off around Christmas so you can visit Feldspar and screw him in the ass?

I support your right to do so Mace.

[Mace]

OK.

I guess.

However, will your employer give you some time off around Christmas so you can visit Feldspar and screw him in the ass?

I support your right to do so Mace.

I'm delighted I managed to divert you from videos and fonts, Fontsarelli Videochaps.

Whatever my employer does shouldn't be the business of a pouting obsessive on a message board, unless he has some weird deviation that fixates him beyond the norm of comprehension. The fact that you even think I'd put you above my job is kind of really peculiar, and the fact you'd even think you should be more important than the job that sustains me is pretty much disturbed. That you'd criticize me obsessively for spurning you over my job and a CFL game is frankly a sign of miswired damage, and that you'd think I'd feel bad about it is well....comical.

Oh, and on topic, Russ Brandon screwed the pooch big time by not threatening to resign if they hired Ryan.

[swiper]

Brandon is no good, I don't like him.

See, videochaps, that's an example of on topic.

I still don't like Brandon, but I can't blame him for much more than Rex Ryan. That's an example of current on topic information.

I'm guessing that some half wit playing with himself in panties, might not grasp these things, though he's grasping something else besides his bottle of hard booze because his posts have nothing to do with the topic. This is a way of insulting a pervert by his posts without insulting the poster.

And lastly, I don't spend a lot of my time working on my knees, but I'm guessing someone who vacuums like a hoover and can't grasp the idea of topics and threads, might not care if he hoped to beg for some.

I still blame Brandon for Ryan, and maybe some weirdo will work some fonts and videos here ? I sure can't tell.


LOL.

[swiper]

Spiked is rectocentric.

[coastal]

When it matter's most, Brandon's team takes on his personality...

he's a pretender and has been since day one.

[Novacane]

Terry loves the snake oils salesman/con man. He's not going to be fired.

[Mace]

Lock him up !

(it's worth a try)

[swiper]

Post #14

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/235642-Random-Thoughts-on-the-Game?p=4278621#post4278621

[Historian]

It's funny.

We have some casual fans here, and we have some hard core fans.

But of all the people who post here on some semi-regular basis, I cannot think of ONE PERSON who thought that Ryan hiring his brother was a good idea.

NOT ONE.

How is it that Brandon and the Pegulas did?

That's my question.

[swiper]

It's funny.

We have some casual fans here, and we have some hard core fans.

But of all the people who post here on some semi-regular basis, I cannot think of ONE PERSON who thought that Ryan hiring his brother was a good idea.

NOT ONE.

How is it that Brandon and the Pegulas did?

That's my question.

That move was the beginning of the end.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It's funny.

We have some casual fans here, and we have some hard core fans.

But of all the people who post here on some semi-regular basis, I cannot think of ONE PERSON who thought that Ryan hiring his brother was a good idea.

NOT ONE.

How is it that Brandon and the Pegulas did?

That's my question.

How do you know that Brandon thought it was a good idea?

[The Jokeman]

It's funny.

We have some casual fans here, and we have some hard core fans.

But of all the people who post here on some semi-regular basis, I cannot think of ONE PERSON who thought that Ryan hiring his brother was a good idea.

NOT ONE.

How is it that Brandon and the Pegulas did?

That's my question.

They gave Rex enough rope to hang himself this offseason. I'm expecting him to be let go like Ruff/Rolston were let go by the Sabres because they weren't producing. Whaley might get the Regier treatment but honestly I think he's done a good job as GM.

[Historian]

How do you know that Brandon thought it was a good idea?

He got the job.

[Joe Fo Sho]

He got the job.

That's what I thought.