Pegulas interviewed players without Rex on offense.

[HHURRICANE]

Wow,so now we have owners firing coordinators....

[swiper]

Unusual. They were trying to get to the bottom of the problem. Undermine the coach. But they were trying to find out if he was the problem. This move by the owners puts him squarely on the hot seat.

[Novacane]

99% of the time I hate meddling owners but in this case I don't mind. I just hope they'll be asking Rex why his defense sucks.

[HHURRICANE]

Please reply in this thread as I duplicated from my iPhone.

[DraftBoy]

This is something Daniel Snyder would do.

- - - Updated - - -


99% of the time I hate meddling owners but in this case I don't mind. I just hope they'll be asking Rex why his defense sucks.

Per multiple reports, Rex has the full support of the Pegula's.

[swiper]

Look. this is about Ryan. Ryan is going to be fired, sooner or later, and will never get a head coach gig again. I'm not even sure that any owner will let him run their defense after this.

Bringing Rob Ryan in isn't bringing a #19 defense back to #4, it's taking it down toward #32. That move was FAR, FAR worse than Marrone bringing in his buddy Hackett to run the offense. And we all hated that.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I like that the Pegulas are trying to gather information from multiple sources with multiple perspectives. It makes complete sense.

[justasportsfan]

Awesome. Its a chance for Watkins to blame someone for being a china doll.

[Lone Stranger]

The statement previously made that the Pegulas have full support for Rex gives me great worry for the team. They have steadfastly refused to bring in an outside consultant and are relying upon their own expertise(or lack thereof) to make professional judgements on the Bills.

[Novacane]

This is something Daniel Snyder would do.u

- - - Updated - - -



Per multiple reports, Rex has the full support of the Pegula's.



For now.

[sdbillsfan2]

Slowly the word is leaking out that this is NOT a happy locker room. Once that ball starts rolling its hard to stop it. Anthony Lynn and Lorretta Lynn together can't save the circus. Just a matter of when Rex officially loses the team and his job. I'm sayin the morning after the last game of the season. Either that or New Error field goes up in smoke.

[HHURRICANE]

CBS just lambasted everyone at OBD including the owners.

Actually Roman came out smelling like a rose.

[Mace]

Didn't see the link anywhere. Weird stuff.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000704103/article/rex-wasnt-at-ownersplayers-meetings-before-romans-firing

Peculiar on several levels. Dysfunctional organization. Trouble ahead.

[bleve]

Didn't see the link anywhere. Weird stuff.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000704103/article/rex-wasnt-at-ownersplayers-meetings-before-romans-firing

Peculiar on several levels. Dysfunctional organization. Trouble ahead.

I found another link here (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/rex-ryan-reportedly-irate-about-bills-owners-meeting-with-players-in-private/)in lieu of no link in original post.

The National media are having a field day blasting the dysfunction.

[coastal]

Whose job is it to successfully structure the organization?

[kingJofNYC]

This franchise continues to find ways to embarrass itself. Just when you think it can't get worse, it somehow does.

[bleve]

It's possible that Rex came to the owners with the news that he was going to replace Roman, and then the Pegulas had their meetings afterwards to confirm.

But my gut says the owners mandated the change - being Rex was unaware of the little get together.

[Turf]

So yeah this was Rex's doing 100%, because he knew if he didn't do it would be his ass and his brothers. So yeah he 100% decided to fire him.

[YardRat]

I'd meddle too if I spent over s billion dollars for something and have to watch it spiral downhill for the better part of 18 months. I'd be meddling deeper than an OC, though.

[stuckincincy]

I'd meddle too if I spent over a billion dollars for something and have to watch it spiral downhill for the better part of 18 months. I'd be meddling deeper than an OC, though.

Yes indeed.

[Bill Cody]

It took Rex 8 weeks last year to figure out his defense hated his defensive scheme. So maybe taking only 2 weeks to figure out his OC thinks he's a buffoon and couldn't coordinate a Cub Scout meeting is real progress. What a joke

[chris66]

If the Pegulas actually did that then this team is all kinds of dysfunctional. Nobody in the rest of the Afc will have to worry about the Bills

[Turf]

Honestly Pegula's problem is he gets pig headed and doesn't listen to the fans sentiment. Everyone saw this coming, just like everyone saw Rob Ryan coming here as a huge mistake. But still, he continued to go down his path with some really bad advice from who knows who (Brandon and Whaley). I really think almost any poster in this forum could have given him better advise.

[Mace]

I'd meddle too if I spent over s billion dollars for something and have to watch it spiral downhill for the better part of 18 months. I'd be meddling deeper than an OC, though.

Thing is just that, is that the right way to meddle ? Like Draftboy said it's Dan Snyder-ish. You notice Whaley isn't even mentioned.

They say the Pegulas talked to "several offensive standouts." If you consider this, who would that be ? Givemetheball Watkins, Givemetheball McCoy ? Tyrod Taylor is mentioned. Is any QB going to point out his own issues or say "I can make any throw, let me throw it" regardless. What other offensive standouts do we have ? Incognito. I'm not too sure I'd count on Richie to discourse on the finer aspects of offensive merit.

From top level, wouldn't you meet with dept heads instead of line workers ? I can understand owners being down to earth and hands on, but they're the same folks that are swayed by Brandon and were swayed by Ryan's personality.

That leads to maybe they grew and evolved to be more astute. But if that was the case wouldn't they still meet with the staff including Whaley to cut through the BS ?

I don't know. They danced around the biggest problem to eradicate Roman who I'm not even sure was a problem 2 games into the season.

[cookie G]

Whose job is it to successfully structure the organization?

Dysfunction sells. Its shaping up to be a great reality show.

Rex and Russ are sooo meant for each other.

[jamze132]

Wow,so now we have owners firing coordinators....

I took it as the Pegula's trying to figure out if Rex is the problem. He's obviously not impressed, like us with the **** show.

Rex has to be feeling the heat big time now. Plus now he knows his owner doesn't have a whole lot of trust lol

[Cleve]

I like that the Pegulas are trying to gather information from multiple sources with multiple perspectives. It makes complete sense.

Perhaps they should have done that BEFORE hiring that walking train wreck, Ryan? Maybe they'll think twice in the future about advice from Russ Brandon, their new adopted son?

[sdbillsfan2]

Too bad this didn't happen last year. I'm pretty sure Mario would have plenty to talk about.

[kishoph]

Honestly Pegula's problem is he gets pig headed and doesn't listen to the fans sentiment. Everyone saw this coming, just like everyone saw Rob Ryan coming here as a huge mistake. But still, he continued to go down his path with some really bad advice from who knows who (Brandon and Whaley). I really think almost any poster in this forum could have given him better advise.

Rob Ryan coming here was a huge mistake ? Um, I don't think we could of been preseason champions without Rob Ryan. :hammer:

Rex Ryan coming here was a huge mistake

[SpikedLemonade]

99% of the time I hate meddling owners but in this case I don't mind. I just hope they'll be asking Rex why his defense sucks.

That is any easy question to answer.

Rex's defence sucks because it really has not evolved in an every changing league from his days in Baltimore where he had a heavily talented laden veteran group of D players.

Rex's defensive schemes are well know and easily beatable.

Fire the fat mouth.

[bob86]

There is an old Japanese management saying that used to be popular in Business Schools that went “Don’t touch the tools.” The concept behind the saying was that everyone in a business has his or her own role and everyone in the organization (whether the highest paid executive or the newest hourly worker) had to respect that role. That is why it was not ok for the CEO to touch the tools of the employee on the assembly line. The concept goes much further than respecting co-workers, it assures the benefits of the division of labor and an orderly organizational structure. If everyone is doing everyone else’s job, nothing will get done.

In this instance, Terry and Kim have not only the right but the obligation to get to bottom of what is wrong with their nearly $1.5 Billion investment. They would be foolish not to. At the same time they need to respect the people they employ to do their job. If Terry and Kim believe the employees can’t do their job, then they need to replace those employees. It is generally not an effective approach for dysfunctional employees to be kept on while having their managers do their work for them.

[Historian]

A lot of non-union companies do this now.

Upper management goes out on the floor, and speaks directly to the workers, to get a sense of what is going on. (sometimes its a sit down in the form of a focus group over lunch)

Middle managers are always on notice, and usually the first ones to get canned.

[DraftBoy]

There is an old Japanese management saying that used to be popular in Business Schools that went “Don’t touch the tools.” The concept behind the saying was that everyone in a business has his or her own role and everyone in the organization (whether the highest paid executive or the newest hourly worker) had to respect that role. That is why it was not ok for the CEO to touch the tools of the employee on the assembly line. The concept goes much further than respecting co-workers, it assures the benefits of the division of labor and an orderly organizational structure. If everyone is doing everyone else’s job, nothing will get done.

In this instance, Terry and Kim have not only the right but the obligation to get to bottom of what is wrong with their nearly $1.5 Billion investment. They would be foolish not to. At the same time they need to respect the people they employ to do their job. If Terry and Kim believe the employees can’t do their job, then they need to replace those employees. It is generally not an effective approach for dysfunctional employees to be kept on while having their managers do their work for them.

Did you ever read the Harvard Business Review article about Great Managers? It was published in 2005, but it summarized that while there are many different theories on management there is one universal truth (at least from this author's perspective) average managers play checkers while great managers play chess.


Average managers play checkers, while great managers play chess. The difference? In checkers, all the pieces are uniform and move in the same way; they are interchangeable. You need to plan and coordinate their movements, certainly, but they all move at the same pace, on parallel paths. In chess, each type of piece moves in a different way, and you can’t play if you don’t know how each piece moves. More important, you won’t win if you don’t think carefully about how you move the pieces. Great managers know and value the unique abilities and even the eccentricities of their employees, and they learn how best to integrate them into a coordinated plan of attack.

The link for anybody interested:
https://hbr.org/2005/03/what-great-managers-do

[DraftBoy]

A lot of non-union companies do this now.

Upper management goes out on the floor, and speaks directly to the workers, to get a sense of what is going on. (sometimes its a sit down in the form of a focus group over lunch)

Middle managers are always on notice, and usually the first ones to get canned.

I've seen this done a lot of different ways and the only instances where I've seen it truly effective is where there is an already established relationship between upper management and workers.

[justasportsfan]

Were these players interviewed in the hot tub?

I think thats why Roman was fired, he wasn't in the hot tub with Rexy and Pegs

[gebobs]

You notice Whaley isn't even mentioned.

Now that you mention it, haven't heard a thing from Whaley since training camp.

[DraftBoy]

Now that you mention it, haven't heard a thing from Whaley since training camp.

He was mentioned in the CBS Report yesterday that stated that the Bills Organization has not even considered firing Ryan or Whaley and it would take an epic collapse for them to do so.

[DetDannyWilliams]

Bills owner backs Rex Ryan's decision to fire Greg Roman

''Head coach runs the team and staff,'' Pegula wrote in a text message to the AP in disputing questions about who made the decision to fire Roman on Friday.
Pegula added the Bills do things together much like any well-run organization would.
Pegula's comments come at a time when Ryan's authority has been questioned entering his second season and following an 0-2 start.

On Monday, Ryan reiterated the decision was his, adding he had no problem with the Pegulas meeting with players.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bills-owner-backs-rex-ryans-decision-to-fire-greg-roman/ar-BBwma5d?li=BBgET5V&ocid=spartandhp

[Historian]

I've seen this done a lot of different ways and the only instances where I've seen it truly effective is where there is an already established relationship between upper management and workers.

I've seen it work in smaller companies, about 100 employees.

The President, or plant manager knew everyone's spouse and kids names. He was a very genuine person, and people would walk over hot coals for him.

He could handle mistakes, but he could not handle his Supervisors, and his team leads being rough on the employees. He used to hit the floor at least once a day, it was a real priority to him, to speak with the people. He absolutely soiled himself when I put up a cork communication board, and brought in a small cake for people's birthdays.

Our manufacturing manager (my boss) was too busy for this stuff, and wasn't the most easy person to approach. He got canned because as good as he was at his job, he simply wouldn't play the game.

In a larger company I worked for, the GM used to buy lunch for about a dozen people, usually one person per department. While he seemed genuinely interested in people's thoughts, his HR manager used to jump in and answer things for him. Knowing nothing was going to penetrate the bureaucracy, people started turning them down. The Panara Bread lunch simply wasn't worth the aggravation.

[gebobs]

He was mentioned in the CBS Report yesterday that stated that the Bills Organization has not even considered firing Ryan or Whaley and it would take an epic collapse for them to do so.

People mention Elvis from time to time too. ;-)

[swiper]

People mention Elvis from time to time too. ;-)

Leave Spiked out of this.

[stuckincincy]

Latest On Bills’ Offense
September 19th, 2016 at 4:48pm CST by Connor Byrne

"After the Bills fired offensive coordinator Greg Roman on Friday, head coach Rex Ryan insisted that it was his decision. However, there were reports that team ownership actually spurred the move. Bills owner Terry Pegula dismissed that notion in a text message to the Associated Press on Monday, writing, “We do things together like any well run org would. Head coach runs the team and staff.”

and then

"Pegula and his wife, Kim, did hold a meeting with members of the Bills’ offense Friday. That meeting did not include Ryan, who reportedly wasn’t pleased with his absence. He downplayed that Monday, though."...


http://www.profootballrumors.com/2016/09/latest-on-bills-offense

[YardRat]

merged

[stuckincincy]

merged

Thanks - I failed to notice.

From that link, though, are these words from Rexy:

“I think the spin on the offense is going to be immediate,” he stated. “Some things that we’ll do from a tactical standpoint, I think we’ll see immediately. Change in the verbiage and playbook and all that stuff, we’ll pull from the same playbook. There may be an occasional play here and there, but it’s still gonna be — we’re definitely keeping the verbiage and everything else that’s already in place.”

Huh?

[sdbillsfan2]

Has anyone else noticed the GM has been noticeably silent and invisible lately.. ??? Trying to hide from the bullets or avoided any involvement? Say what you will about him but I think he's the one clown at OBD I trust the least.

[YardRat]

Has anyone else noticed the GM has been noticeably silent and invisible lately.. ??? Trying to hide from the bullets or avoided any involvement? Say what you will about him but I think he's the one clown at OBD I trust the least.

He's probably busy working on his resume' and networking. If he had anything at all to do with hiring the Wrecksing Crew, he should be.

[Mace]

Has anyone else noticed the GM has been noticeably silent and invisible lately.. ??? Trying to hide from the bullets or avoided any involvement? Say what you will about him but I think he's the one clown at OBD I trust the least.

I think Whaley is trying to stay out of the obvious and hoping no one homes in on him.

[stuckincincy]

I think Whaley is trying to stay out of the obvious and hoping no one homes in on him.

Yep - hiding down in the bilge while the ship careens to and fro.

[Mace]

Hard to discuss management philosophies without knowing more.

What we do know from precedent with the Sabres, and Pegula knows more about hockey, then the parallel :
- 1st inclination, leave things alone Sabres. Bills Marrone changed the desired effect, enter Mr. Football, Brandon.
- 2nd inclination, lop off 1 head and hope it was the right one (Ruff Sabres, Roman Bills)
- when forced to choose : Clean house, hire LaFontaine who hired Tim Murray (Sabres), Bills....ah, go along with the Rex Ryan scam. Bills have no LaFontaine equivalent though I'm sure Brandon thinks he is. How did we lose LaFontaine again ? Pegulas at the top of the food chain.

Ok, so we have no LaFontaine equivalent, Pegulas think they have to do something. They talk to players. Again, what players ? Kyle Williams looks like the only one who would be brutally honest and have insight, Eric Wood maybe.
- the self involved McCoy, Watkins, or Taylor looking to prove his contract ?

I can't really count much on their insight with the Ryans and Brandon in the house, and wondering about LaFontaine still.

Probably the best management philosophy in football is still finding an expert (consultant) who finds an expert (GM) who finds an expert (coach) to manage the tiers toward a successful result with everyone embracing the same philosophy (win at all costs - Pats, we can do this - Seattle, everything in its place - Pittsburgh, methodical over time - Baltimore), just pure old everyone on the same page doing their thing (Arizona).

Maybe the Pegulas are just gathering future ammo and understanding, maybe they're developing bull**** filters, maybe they want to scare Rex a little, maybe they were integral, maybe they weren't.

Gonna take another year to find out. I'm sick of the process already. Another old management saying, do it once, do it right.

[Arm of Harm]

Thing is just that, is that the right way to meddle ? Like Draftboy said it's Dan Snyder-ish. You notice Whaley isn't even mentioned.

They say the Pegulas talked to "several offensive standouts." If you consider this, who would that be ? Givemetheball Watkins, Givemetheball McCoy ? Tyrod Taylor is mentioned. Is any QB going to point out his own issues or say "I can make any throw, let me throw it" regardless. What other offensive standouts do we have ? Incognito. I'm not too sure I'd count on Richie to discourse on the finer aspects of offensive merit.

From top level, wouldn't you meet with dept heads instead of line workers ? I can understand owners being down to earth and hands on, but they're the same folks that are swayed by Brandon and were swayed by Ryan's personality.

That leads to maybe they grew and evolved to be more astute. But if that was the case wouldn't they still meet with the staff including Whaley to cut through the BS ?

I don't know. They danced around the biggest problem to eradicate Roman who I'm not even sure was a problem 2 games into the season.


Obviously there are very serious problems at One Bills Drive. The Pegulas want to get to the bottom of those problems, which is what I'd hope for from them.

But who are they supposed to talk to? They could sit down with their buffoon head coach, and get a double helping of bluster and bravado. They could sit down with their GM and get a completely unrealistic description of the amount of talent the Bills supposedly have. Or, they could sit down with their starting quarterback, and get convinced that this QB's problems have nothing to do with his inability to read defenses or see open receivers.

Just about everyone in this organization is part of the problem. Doug Whaley, Russ Brandon, Rex Ryan, Tyrod Taylor: they all need to go. The Pegulas need to employ a "clean broom" approach, and get rid of them all! Talking with people inside the organization is a problem. Not because some yahoo's authority is getting undermined. But because just about anyone with whom the Pegulas might converse is going to be someone they should be firing, from the GM to the head coach to the defensive coordinator to every QB on the roster.

Rex Ryan isn't going to inform the Pegulas that he's a buffoon. Doug Whaley isn't going to inform them that he's unable to evaluate QB talent (except for looking at the QB's physical tools). Tyrod Taylor isn't going to tell the Pegulas that he's a running back who can throw. If the Pegulas really do want to get to the bottom of this, they have to do much, much more than "let's have a meeting with the coach killer QB!" Eventually, they're going to have to come to a decision to get rid of their GM and head coach. I'm not sure how long it will take for them to get their, or how many additional scapegoat moves they'll make before that happens. But that is ultimately what they're going to have to do.

[SpikedLemonade]

Now that you mention it, haven't heard a thing from Whaley since training camp.

Dead Man Walking

[coastal]

They're all dead man walking at this point and they're all men who were hired and put in place to work together...

by Russ Brandon.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

They're all dead man walking at this point and they're all men who were hired and put in place to work together...

by Russ Brandon.

God coastal you're so stupid. Why won't you and the other bloodthirsty fans stop blaming genius Russ Brandon on being the grand architect of this ****show. Clearly, his marketing tools have absolutely no input on football decisions... such as the TO signing or Rex Ryan hire.




/sarcasm

[trapezeus]

if they stay on this pace of firing people, at 0-4, I think rex is gone. and at 0-6 with a pats game coming up, I think whaley is gone. the proof to get Brandon out is that we need fans to put together something showing that they won't be renewing season tickets with russ Brandon there. and frankly, the apologists for russ can't answer this question, "even if he somehow has had nothing to do with football operations all 20 years with the bills, can it get worse without him?" my answer is probably not.

[DraftBoy]

if they stay on this pace of firing people, at 0-4, I think rex is gone. and at 0-6 with a pats game coming up, I think whaley is gone. the proof to get Brandon out is that we need fans to put together something showing that they won't be renewing season tickets with russ Brandon there. and frankly, the apologists for russ can't answer this question, "even if he somehow has had nothing to do with football operations all 20 years with the bills, can it get worse without him?" my answer is probably not.

On the field? Not really.

As a business? Yes, it could get much worse.

[trapezeus]

the team doesn't need marketing. marketing is what has created this mess. you win, and people show up. this is football in buffalo. the greatest scam Brandon has some of the fan base buying is that he's selling the games. the people willingly buy the games. they always will. the commitment has to be to winning and not marketing. Brandon is involved with football decisions and if he isn't, we shouldn't have any issue parting ways with a marketer of football. this is the same thing they told us about darcy during his tenure. "he is so respected, anyone would take him in a heartbeat when he leaves." and he's an assistant in Arizona. hardly a vote of confidence from the rest of the NHL. No one will touch Brandon. and he should have enough money that he can move to florida and get back to his passion which is baseball.

[gebobs]

Has anyone else noticed the GM has been noticeably silent and invisible lately.. ??? Trying to hide from the bullets or avoided any involvement? Say what you will about him but I think he's the one clown at OBD I trust the least.

Sure have.


Now that you mention it, haven't heard a thing from Whaley since training camp.

[ticatfan]

The statement previously made that the Pegulas have full support for Rex gives me great worry for the team. They have steadfastly refused to bring in an outside consultant and are relying upon their own expertise(or lack thereof) to make professional judgements on the Bills.Owners always give coaches their full support, till they fire them.

[DraftBoy]

the team doesn't need marketing. marketing is what has created this mess. you win, and people show up. this is football in buffalo. the greatest scam Brandon has some of the fan base buying is that he's selling the games. the people willingly buy the games. they always will. the commitment has to be to winning and not marketing. Brandon is involved with football decisions and if he isn't, we shouldn't have any issue parting ways with a marketer of football. this is the same thing they told us about darcy during his tenure. "he is so respected, anyone would take him in a heartbeat when he leaves." and he's an assistant in Arizona. hardly a vote of confidence from the rest of the NHL. No one will touch Brandon. and he should have enough money that he can move to florida and get back to his passion which is baseball.

How are we determining commitment to winning? Either the on the field product works out or it doesn't at the end of the day this is still a business and the owners want all the profits they can get.

I'm not sure how you determine that nobody will touch Brandon considering that the Raiders tried to poach him just two years ago.

[trapezeus]

no one from 2000-2016 should be in this organization. that's a commitment to winning.

the people they pick have a pedigree of rebuilding culture and have experience in football operations. at this point, I would literally take half this board as scouts and gm, because they read the draft magazines, they aren't all in on splashy toys with no QB. how many people have said, draft a qb every year until you get it. the bills haven't had one since arguably Bledsoe, possibly further back. the pats have had 3 starters in their (illegitimate) reign, and they all succeed.

Until two years ago, the raiders were as hapless as us. they are on an upward trajectory, and the bills are not.

if you want to see russ bring in another coach and another glorified scout as GM for the 3rd time, then lets stay with him. and don't be surprised why no one else with any skill or talent wants the GM or coaching gig in buffalo. It has nothing to do with the city. Russ just uses the town's inferiority complex to make it seem like its not him, but the city.

I just don't get why people can't see that he is smarmy and a con man. it's clear as day. he is at every signing, he gets all the draft day pictures to be him standing next to the GM celebrating, he talks about leaving no stone unturned to find marrone. he has been the GM and the president of the team. he is not simply a marketing man.now he has a senior role across both teams. this guy is your bad mojo. it ends there.

[HHURRICANE]

I have to admit I've been a Whaley fan from the standpoint of evaluating talent but I use the old adage which is "if we are losing with them then we can lose without them."

The EJ Manuel signing was such a colossal miss that it's hard to recover from that. Two years wasted trying to make him a starter. If your going to trade two first round picks for Watson then why not trade some more and get the one of two slam dunk QBs in last year's draft instead.

Safe to say that I'm ready to move on from this entire crew.

[Cleve]

Owners always give coaches their full support, till they fire them.

Does anyone know how much time elapsed between Terry Pegula's final public expression of support for Darcy Regier as Sabres' GM, and when Regier was fired? Just curious how fast the compass swing took place. Was it a day? A week? It might give us some slight hope for the departure of the 3 Stooges - Brandon, Whaley and Ryan.

[Cleve]

the team doesn't need marketing. marketing is what has created this mess. you win, and people show up. this is football in buffalo. the greatest scam Brandon has some of the fan base buying is that he's selling the games. the people willingly buy the games. they always will. the commitment has to be to winning and not marketing. Brandon is involved with football decisions and if he isn't, we shouldn't have any issue parting ways with a marketer of football. this is the same thing they told us about darcy during his tenure. "he is so respected, anyone would take him in a heartbeat when he leaves." and he's an assistant in Arizona. hardly a vote of confidence from the rest of the NHL. No one will touch Brandon. and he should have enough money that he can move to florida and get back to his passion which is baseball.

Agreed. The Bills had a rabidly faithful fanbase long before Russ Brandon oiled his way onto the scene. And even IF he's a good marketer, why the blazes have him involved in non-marketing decisions? He has no gravitas or standing to be making coaching or player recommendations - he doesn't know **** from shinola when it comes to building a football team.

In regards to your second point, I too have wondered what quality NFL team would hire and install Brandon into a position anywhere near his current status? What owner would look at him, and the Bills constant record of failure and ineptness since he's held high level executive positions with the team, and decide they needed him to help craft a winning team?

[Mace]

if they stay on this pace of firing people, at 0-4, I think rex is gone. and at 0-6 with a pats game coming up, I think whaley is gone.

They don't have anyone to replace either for interim. They'll be here all season.

[swiper]

Mace from outer space. That's your Presidential Slogan for 2020.

- - - Updated - - -

I was going to send you a PM, but Spiked already did. So I'm just going go see if there's any beer in the fridge instead.

[Arm of Harm]

Agreed. The Bills had a rabidly faithful fanbase long before Russ Brandon oiled his way onto the scene. And even IF he's a good marketer, why the blazes have him involved in non-marketing decisions? He has no gravitas or standing to be making coaching or player recommendations - he doesn't know **** from shinola when it comes to building a football team.

In regards to your second point, I too have wondered what quality NFL team would hire and install Brandon into a position anywhere near his current status? What owner would look at him, and the Bills constant record of failure and ineptness since he's held high level executive positions with the team, and decide they needed him to help craft a winning team?

Good post Cleve. To take your point one step further, I would argue that the Bills' relationship with their fans was significantly better before Brandon was hired than it is today.

Let's say you make a flashy move for a big name player. A Terrell Owens signing. A Mario Williams signing. A trade for LeShaun McCoy. In some cases, a move like that will be partially or fully justified from a football perspective. But it's easy to over-hype something like that. Especially when, as is usually the case, the big name player's best years are behind him by the time he gets here.

The move for the big name player, and the Brandon-generated hype around that move, create lofty expectations among a significant portion of the fan base. Then the big name player doesn't perform as Russ had led people to believe he would. So a little disappointment creeps in, but people give the front office the benefit of the doubt. After all, those people are professionals, and it's claimed that they know better than the fan base what's best for the team. But then the same thing happens again in a year or two; and then again a year or two after that. Each time it does, fans' willingness to buy into the latest instance of hype becomes a little less. As does their willingness to forgive the team for having done a third rate job with the football side of operations.

If the rumors are true, then someone in the organization (Brandon?) lobbied heavily for some coach to be removed, as a sort of sacrificial goat to the fans. In other words, Roman's firing may have been at least as much a marketing-motivated move as it was a football-motivated move. A number of the Bills' acquisitions over the years may well have had that exact same marketing motivation.

An approach like Brandon's works much better in the short-term than it does in the long run. From a careerist perspective an approach like that may well have been a good move on Brandon's part. Ralph Wilson puts Brandon in charge of something, and then watches as the money flows in. At that point the idea of Brandon the marketing genius becomes fixed in Wilson's head. Once you have a fixed idea like that, it may be difficult to realize that the long-term relationship with the fans is eroding, thanks in large part to Brandon's treating the fans like stupid, gullible cash cows to be milked. Erode the team's relationship with the fans badly enough, and eventually the impact on the business side will become serious.