Tyrod can't take advantage of an o-line that is giving him all day to throw the ball!

[HHURRICANE]

I'm sorry but I can't remember the last time a Bills o-line gave a QB this much time to throw the ball. Sadly I think it highlights how mediocre Tyrod is.

I'll give the new OC credit as he is putting Tyrod in the best possible position to use his rushing skills but Tyrod had all day to find receivers open yesterday when they weren't designed running plays.

Not encouraging at all.

[bdutton]

I'm sorry but I can't remember the last time a Bills o-line gave a QB this much time to throw the ball. Sadly I think it highlights how mediocre Tyrod is.

I'll give the new OC credit as he is putting Tyrod in the best possible position to use his rushing skills but Tyrod had all day to find receivers open yesterday when they weren't designed running plays.

Not encouraging at all.

There were several times that Tyrod had to duck under a rushing defender or escape to the side to avoid sacks. His ability to sense pressure and move to open space while keeping his eyes downfield was special.

[HHURRICANE]

There were several times that Tyrod had to duck under a rushing defender or escape to the side to avoid sacks. His ability to sense pressure and move to open space while keeping his eyes downfield was special.

At some point the pocket is going to collapse when you are hanging on to the ball that long. And for the record he has an ability to get out of trouble, and I'll give you that, but some of it is self induced.

In addition, we all used to ***** about _____________(insert QB of your choice over last 10 years) throwing the ball 3 yards when we need 7 yards and Tyrod is just as guilty of the same bad habit.

[sahlensguy]

Listened to the radio feed yesterday and I thought the same thing. Numerous times Taylor had "all day", without producing big plays. That said, going into the game we were dead last in 3rd down conversions and we did convert at a high rate yesterday along with many 3rd and longs. Taylor hitting the slants were refreshing to hear also.

[Dr. Lecter]

27 of 39. 246 yards. 1 Td. No Ints.

What was he supposed to do?

There are times and games to complain his performance. Yesterday was not one of them.

[justasportsfan]

27 of 39. 246 yards. 1 Td. No Ints.

What was he supposed to do?

There are times and games to complain his performance. Yesterday was not one of them.

I agree. When the running game is playing great he needs to be himself. A care taker.

It's when we need him to be qb when the running game isn't doing great that we get into trouble. So far, he's looking ok under Lynn.

[sahlensguy]

I agree. When the running game is playing great he needs to be himself. A care taker.

It's when we need him to be qb when the running game isn't doing great that we get into trouble. So far, he's looking ok under Lynn.

The point in this, I think is that this season is Tyrod's tryout before we extend his contact. Yesterday wasn't a typical game. The Patriots were one dimensional and inept and it was obvious early that a caretaker would get the job done. Most Sunday's you need a qb who, when given the time in the pocket, will consistently make plays downfield. $92 mill, is a lot of cap space to sacrifice to a caretaker in the modern NFL.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Tyrod did exactly what was asked of him yesterday.

[sahlensguy]

Tyrod did exactly what was asked of him yesterday.

He was a good caretaker, absolutely.

It would have been encouraging, with all that time to find an open downfield receiver once in a while. You know like $92 million qbs usually do.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I agree. A number of times he held the ball for a few seconds, then starting to move himself. He might be trying to create some coverage breakdown when he moves around, but quite often he breaks the perfectly executed blocking in front of him, allowing defenders to come after him free.

This is where other mobile QBs like Newton, and Wilson are so good. Wilson especially who has a great sense of pressure and is willing to wait if the blocking is good in front of him. Newton also waits, sometimes a bit too long but he's so big and strong, can take a hit while delivering the ball. Tyrod is clearly not close to that level yet.

[ticatfan]

As I said before ,stick with him and let him develop, he is a keeper, IMHO.

[HHURRICANE]

Tyrod did exactly what was asked of him yesterday.

We won a game technically by two scores. If he we was being a caretaker then why did he need to hang onto the ball for so long? Obviously there were plays that had the intent of getting bigger yards.

6.3 yards per pass and 4.8 the week before are not 92 million dollar QB numbers.

[Ed]

Did you guys not watch any Bills games last season? Making big plays down field is one thing Tyrod did better at than any other qb.

[Joe Fo Sho]

We won a game technically by two scores. If he we was being a caretaker then why did he need to hang onto the ball for so long? Obviously there were plays that had the intent of getting bigger yards.

6.3 yards per pass and 4.8 the week before are not 92 million dollar QB numbers.

I was one of the biggest people who spoke out against the contract when he signed it, and I still am. You know what though? He signed it and now we have to live with it.

Even if you're against his contract, you have to admit he had a good game against the Pats. He is signed on for $18 million per season, average. That puts him tied for 17th highest paid QB. If you think played worse than 17 QB's in the NFL yesterday, you're out of your mind.

[Jry44]

Have you seen who his receivers are??

There are two parts to this. A receiver has to get open if he is going to get them the ball.

[sahlensguy]

I was one of the biggest people who spoke out against the contract when he signed it, and I still am. You know what though? He signed it and now we have to live with it.

Even if you're against his contract, you have to admit he had a good game against the Pats. He is signed on for $18 million per season, average. That puts him tied for 17th highest paid QB. If you think played worse than 17 QB's in the NFL yesterday, you're out of your mind.

17th in the league is about an 8-8 record. Sound familiar?

For Tyrod to take the next he needs to be an assassin when he has time. Go through progressions, and the more time the smarter and deeper the ball.

I understand yesterday was a game for him to lose, so playing it safe ensured the W, but your typical playoff qb would have opened up our lead and put away the game earlier. It was there for the taking. 36 minutes vs 23 minutes of possession yeilded only 1 early td.
$92 mill franchise qbs put away teams in those games.

[elroy16]

I guess it would have been better if he had been forcing it down field like Osweiler did against this defense, right?


Don't you guys think that maybe, just maybe the patriots were working on taking away the deep pass and he had to go underneath because that's what the defense gave him?


Fifteen first downs off of passes but no, he didn't thrown bombs, so it was a poor effort.




If the all-22 comes out and we see receivers open downfield all day that TT missed, then sure, you can criticize him. Right now though, I just don't get it. He wasn't perfect, but he moved the ball, avoided mistakes, and put them in position to win the game. The D was playing at a very high level and a lot of times, you ride that out by playing conservative and minimizing mistakes, which is what they did and won the game doing.

[sahlensguy]

I guess it would have been better if he had been forcing it down field like Osweiler did against this defense, right?


Don't you guys think that maybe, just maybe the patriots were working on taking away the deep pass and he had to go underneath because that's what the defense gave him?


Fifteen first downs off of passes but no, he didn't thrown bombs, so it was a poor effort.




If the all-22 comes out and we see receivers open downfield all day that TT missed, then sure, you can criticize him. Right now though, I just don't get it. He wasn't perfect, but he moved the ball, avoided mistakes, and put them in position to win the game. The D was playing at a very high level and a lot of times, you ride that out by playing conservative and minimizing mistakes, which is what they did and won the game doing.

There's also the one td in 36 minutes of possession to throw doubt to.

[jimmifli]

NE was keeping contain with their DEs, the rushes that did come were usually up the middle. They wanted him in the pocket, even if that meant he had lots of time to throw because they didn't think he could do it well enough to beat them.

And it wasn't a bad plan, 16 points isn't exactly lighting things up, but it was more than enough yesterday. If Tyrod could do that consistently, you'd see defenses forced to get after him, which lets him break contain and rush for big gains. What he did yesterday is something he's rarely (never) been able to do: complete intermediate passes to all parts of the field.

[elroy16]

17th in the league is about an 8-8 record. Sound familiar?

For Tyrod to take the next he needs to be an assassin when he has time. Go through progressions, and the more time the smarter and deeper the ball.

I understand yesterday was a game for him to lose, so playing it safe ensured the W, but your typical playoff qb would have opened up our lead and put away the game earlier. It was there for the taking. 36 minutes vs 23 minutes of possession yeilded only 1 early td.
$92 mill franchise qbs put away teams in those games.




Oh, like Flacco did week 1 against the Bills? He slammed the door and didn't let the Bills get close...

What about Osweiler, he's a $90 million QB and didn't put up a single point against this same D. I guess he's not even a typical QB then, hu?

Why does deeper = smarter? If the defense plays cover 4 and doubles everyone deep, isn't the smart play underneath?



All QB's, all-pro's, rookies, whatever, have good games and bad. All QB's lose games they were winning in and all QB's fail to put games away.

These blanket statements are nonsense.

[Joe Fo Sho]

17th in the league is about an 8-8 record. Sound familiar?

You're right, we should have signed Aaron Rodgers in the offseason.


For Tyrod to take the next he needs to be an assassin when he has time. Go through progressions, and the more time the smarter and deeper the ball.

I understand yesterday was a game for him to lose, so playing it safe ensured the W, but your typical playoff qb would have opened up our lead and put away the game earlier. It was there for the taking. 36 minutes vs 23 minutes of possession yeilded only 1 early td.
$92 mill franchise qbs put away teams in those games.

You're barking up the wrong tree here, guy. I'm against resigning Tyrod with the information we have today. However, this game was a step in the right direction for him and this offense.

[Mr. Pink]

27 of 39. 246 yards. 1 Td. No Ints.

What was he supposed to do?

There are times and games to complain his performance. Yesterday was not one of them.

6.3ypa

Which is actually lower than his career ypa and this seasons ypa...

So it's a very valid game to complain about his performance.

[sahlensguy]

elroy 16.
Oh, like Flacco did week 1 against the Bills? He slammed the door and didn't let the Bills get close...

What about Osweiler, he's a $90 million QB and didn't put up a single point against this same D. I guess he's not even a typical QB then, hu?

Why does deeper = smarter? If the defense plays cover 4 and doubles everyone deep, isn't the smart play underneath?


I didn't say deeper = smarter. What I meant was that as you have more time the deepest ball you can throw while still being a smart throw is the best throw to make. If that means it's a dump off because of coverage then so be it. If it's a 20 yard post or hook that is safely thrown and incomplete, so be it. But as the frequency of having "all day" to throw goes up, so should yardage. Sub 300 yard game again yesterday btw, despite 36 minutes of possession.

I'm not saying Tyrod played a bad game though. He played efficient and got the W. But I don't think he took advantage of his protection as was stated in the OP. The clock is ticking on giving him his contract extension. I want to see better things.

[elroy16]

I didn't say deeper = smarter. What I meant was that as you have more time the deepest ball you can throw while still being a smart throw is the best throw to make. If that means it's a dump off because of coverage then so be it. If it's a 20 yard post or hook that is safely thrown and incomplete, so be it. But as the frequency of having "all day" to throw goes up, so should yardage. Sub 300 yard game again yesterday btw, despite 36 minutes of possession.

I'm not saying Tyrod played a bad game though. He played efficient and got the W. But I don't think he took advantage of his protection as was stated in the OP. The clock is ticking on giving him his contract extension. I want to see better things.


I think that's fair, but I also think the Patriots were probably playing the take away the intermediate/deep stuff all game. Their LB's are excellent in coverage and with the way the game played out, I didn't really have issues with the lack of risks Tyrod took.


Aren't picking up first downs and keeping the offense on the field part of taking advantage of the protection? They picked up 24 first downs, including 15 on throws. They went three and out once. They had four 10+ play drives and two other eight play drives. A couple of the biggest issues last year were relying on big plays, poor 3rd down offense, and a high number of three and outs. You definitely want more TD's and points, I'm not disagreeing with that, but this was a solid step in the right direction.

The offense kept the defense fresh and didn't make any mistakes that could have shifted momentum. A couple of penalties by the O-line put them in bad positions. TT missed a couple of throws he should make and Shady missed a few blitz pickups he should make. They need to continue to get better, but overall I thought it was a solid game by TT and the offense. A solid B/B- grade for TT from me.

[sahlensguy]

I think that's fair, but I also think the Patriots were probably playing the take away the intermediate/deep stuff all game. Their LB's are excellent in coverage and with the way the game played out, I didn't really have issues with the lack of risks Tyrod took.


Aren't picking up first downs and keeping the offense on the field part of taking advantage of the protection? They picked up 24 first downs, including 15 on throws. They went three and out once. They had four 10+ play drives and two other eight play drives. A couple of the biggest issues last year were relying on big plays, poor 3rd down offense, and a high number of three and outs. You definitely want more TD's and points, I'm not disagreeing with that, but this was a solid step in the right direction IMO.

The offense kept the defense fresh and didn't make any mistakes that could have shifted momentum. A couple of penalties by the O-line put them in bad positions. TT missed a couple of throws he should make and Shady missed a few blitz pickups he should make. Overall they need to continue to get better, but overall I thought it was a solid game by TT. A solid B/B- grade from me.

We went in to the game dead last in 3rd down conversion, so yesterday was huge. Balls to Tyrod, the Oline, Shady and Lynn forthat. Other than that though I didn't notice any great progress from Tyrod over a year ago. Zero Ints, sub 300 yard game, and high completion rate, 36 minutes of possession yielding just 1 td though.

I'm impatient I admit. 12 more games for Tyrod to show that he is more of just a caretaker. Two easier opponents coming up. I want him to find a groove, especially if the Oline keeps giving him time.

[sahlensguy]

Did you guys not watch any Bills games last season? Making big plays down field is one thing Tyrod did better at than any other qb.

How many of those were to Tyrod's first read options, or the result of a broken play? I think the majority.

I hope that with protection, which he seems to be getting more of lately, he is able to go through progressions and find receivers. The further out from the line of scrimmage, the better.

[justasportsfan]

As I said before ,stick with him and let him develop, he is a keeper, IMHO.

you don't pay a qb that still needs to develop more than 15 million/year. If he is still playing like a back up at the end of the year, pay him back up money. If he says no, he can leave.

[Joe Fo Sho]

you don't pay a qb that still needs to develop more than 15 million/year. If he is still playing like a back up at the end of the year, pay him back up money. If he says no, he can leave.

If only there was a way we could have let him play out this season for a minimum amount of money before deciding to sign him to a small/medium/big contract or let him go. What a fantastic scenario that would have been. Ya know, if all of the stars aligned and something like that existed for us.

[HHURRICANE]

If only there was a way we could have let him play out this season for a minimum amount of money before deciding to sign him to a small/medium/big contract or let him go. What a fantastic scenario that would have been. Ya know, if all of the stars aligned and something like that existed for us.

The problem now is we are in an all or nothing situation. If he continues to play mediocre we would have most definitely signed him to a worse deal then the one he will get if we keep him.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The problem now is we are in an all or nothing situation. If he continues to play mediocre we would have most definitely signed him to a worse deal then the one he will get if we keep him.

Everybody was so worried that Tyrod would throw for 5,000 yards and 40 touchdowns, so they were glad we locked him up at $15 million. Like that type of season would have really been such a terrible problem to have. Not even considering how incredibly unlikely it would have been.

[Arm of Harm]

Tyrod Taylor is the very embodiment of everything this team has been during the playoff drought. On the one hand he does some things well. He's got plenty of arm strength with which to throw the deep ball. Excellent mobility too. On the other hand, he's a one read QB who will probably never develop into a complete player.

During the playoff drought, the Bills have only organically obtained a top-5 draft pick once. (The Mike Williams pick.) If a team like the Bills goes 7-9 or 8-8, that will be a good enough record to keep them out of the top 5 of the draft. Usually, it will be a good enough record to keep the GM and coaching staff from getting fired. But at no point during the playoff drought have those 7-9 or 8-8 records been stepping stones toward greater things. There was never a real long-term blueprint. Just a front office running things by the seat of its pants, attempting to cobble together a credible football team as best it could. The focus was on maximizing job security for the front office--not on building a Super Bowl winner.

Unless he's lucky enough to QB a team like the Ravens of 2000, Tyrod Taylor is never going to lead a team to a Super Bowl win. But with his mobility and his deep game, he could well be the difference between 4-12 and 7-9. That in turn could prove the difference between the GM getting canned at the end of the season, versus the GM hanging on another year.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Tyrod During the playoff drought, the Bills have only organically obtained a top-5 draft pick once. (The Mike Williams pick.)

We drafted Dareus at 3 and Sammy at 4. Although I'm not sure the Sammy pick falls under your definition of 'organically' obtaining a draft pick, but Dareus does.


If a team like the Bills goes 7-9 or 8-8, that will be a good enough record to keep them out of the top 5 of the draft. Usually, it will be a good enough record to keep the GM and coaching staff from getting fired. But at no point during the playoff drought have those 7-9 or 8-8 records been stepping stones toward greater things. There was never a real long-term blueprint. Just a front office running things by the seat of its pants, attempting to cobble together a credible football team as best it could. The focus was on maximizing job security for the front office--not on building a Super Bowl winner.

Unless he's lucky enough to QB a team like the Ravens of 2000, Tyrod Taylor is never going to lead a team to a Super Bowl win. But with his mobility and his deep game, he could well be the difference between 4-12 and 7-9. That in turn could prove the difference between the GM getting canned at the end of the season, versus the GM hanging on another year.

If there's a QB that we want in the top 5, we can trade up for him. It's not impossible to do like it used to be. The Rams and the Eagles did it this year. It's not where we draft, it's how we draft.

[Arm of Harm]

We drafted Dareus at 3 and Sammy at 4. Although I'm not sure the Sammy pick falls under your definition of 'organically' obtaining a draft pick, but Dareus does.



If there's a QB that we want in the top 5, we can trade up for him. It's not impossible to do like it used to be. The Rams and the Eagles did it this year. It's not where we draft, it's how we draft.

Good point about Dareus. I'd forgotten about him. As you surmised, Watkins doesn't fall under my definition of an organic top 5 pick. But, with the addition of Dareus, that's 2 organic top 5 picks during the almost 20 year playoff drought.

To address your second point: if I could have a first rate GM or top-5 picks each year, I'd choose the first rate GM. That being said, a first rate GM can achieve much more with early draft picks than picks later in the draft. To give a specific example: Bill Polian had top 5 picks four times in his career. Those picks were used on Bruce Smith, Kerry Collins, Peyton Manning, and Edgerrin James. He's also had a number of picks later in the first round; most of which turned out to be busts. A number of others had solid but unspectacular careers. The record clearly shows that if a guy like Bill Polian is given a pick in the top 5, and another pick in the 20s, the former pick is much more likely to become an elite player than the latter pick.

The Bills' dearth of top-5 picks during the playoff drought is more than just a minor nuisance. But the primary cause of the team's futility during that time has been the fact that the Bills haven't had a real GM since Bill Polian.

[mdcas22]

Tyrod played as good as he can against the Pats, but we seem to forget the Pats had no QB and only att 3 pass's in the 1st half. what bothers me is 16 points , you not gonna be on the winning end more times than not unless you are playing a team that don't have a QB. but a win is a win and sometimes you need breaks like that to set you into the right direction, maybe beating the Pats has some kind of cycle logical effect on the team. The Ram's are not gonna be easy by no means.

[mdcas22]

Good point about Dareus. I'd forgotten about him. As you surmised, Watkins doesn't fall under my definition of an organic top 5 pick. But, with the addition of Dareus, that's 2 organic top 5 picks during the almost 20 year playoff drought.

To address your second point: if I could have a first rate GM or top-5 picks each year, I'd choose the first rate GM. That being said, a first rate GM can achieve much more with early draft picks than picks later in the draft. To give a specific example: Bill Polian had top 5 picks four times in his career. Those picks were used on Bruce Smith, Kerry Collins, Peyton Manning, and Edgerrin James. He's also had a number of picks later in the first round; most of which turned out to be busts. A number of others had solid but unspectacular careers. The record clearly shows that if a guy like Bill Polian is given a pick in the top 5, and another pick in the 20s, the former pick is much more likely to become an elite player than the latter pick.

The Bills' dearth of top-5 picks during the playoff drought is more than just a minor nuisance. But the primary cause of the team's futility during that time has been the fact that the Bills haven't had a real GM since Bill Polian.

I think your wrong here, Terry Bledsoe was the gm in 1985 draft, Poiain wasn't hired until December of 1985, he was however pro personal director at the time I believe.