Is Tyrod a Franchise QB?

[Mahdi]

Based on the season thus far, and assuming that what you see is what you get with Tyrod, do the Bills pickup his option for 2017?


At this point this is what I see from Tyrod:

Bad --

1. average/below average short to intermediate accuracy.
2. Poor pocket presence - ability to feel the pocket and maneuver subtly within in it is not there yet
3. Footwork is very inconsistent
4. Cannot throw players open - needs to see large windows in order to trust the throw
5. When throwing over the middle he consistently forces receivers to stop their momentum rather than leading them with throws in order to get more YAC
6. Often locks on to first read and does not come off it
7. Has a general tendency to avoid intermediate middle of the field

Good --

1. Typically a great deep ball thrower
2. Maybe the fastest and most elusive QB since Michael Vick
3. Can make big plays down field when the pocket breaks down and needs to improvise
4. Has decent touch on short throws to RBs out of the backfield.
5. Opens up the run game for RBs with the threat of designed QB runs to the backside
6. Has been dangerous running the option pitch
7. Good leader, great demeanor

Based on this, it would be extremely difficult decision as whether to give Taylor the extension. From a passing game perspective he is clearly holding the offense back. From a running game perspective he provides the Bills with a player that can run like McCoy or take enough attention away from McCoy that he shreds opposing Ds.

The question is then; Is that type of offense enough to make the Bills a contender?

[Pinkerton Security]

If they can consistently run the ball well, he can be an upper level "game manager" to me - his scrambling ability compensates for his lack of pocket presence enough that big running plays can compensate for some negative plays.

Does this make him a "franchise" qb? Lets say this, I think he fits our playing style better than about half of the starting QBs in the league IMO

[Novacane]

No

[Mahdi]

If they can consistently run the ball well, he can be an upper level "game manager" to me - his scrambling ability compensates for his lack of pocket presence enough that big running plays can negate some negative plays.

Does this make him a "franchise" qb? Lets say this, I think he fits our playing style better than about half of the starting QBs in the league IMO

Ok but just asking a fair question, if we had a Derek Carr for example, would the threat of a dangerous passing game not improve our offense on the whole and give us more long-term success?

[Forward_Lateral]

No.

He's a playmaker, yes. He makes some amazing, unbelievable plays, but sooner or later, he's going to have to improve his passing game in order to take the next step.

He's done an amazing job at protecting the football, and not making boneheaded throws. He's made chicken salad out of chicken poop on several occasions. But, he seems to be a one read, then take off with it kind of QB, which won't work for long term NFL success. He did make a few 2nd and 3rd read throws yesterday, which was nice, but he needs to do more of that.

That being said, The Bills could be A LOT worse off at the position. Kaep looked absolutely horrible out there yesterday. If we had to watch a season of that, I'd probably barf.

[BillsOwnAll]

he might not be the best QB in the NFL, but people forget what well end up with if we dont extend him.

[Pinkerton Security]

Ok but just asking a fair question, if we had a Derek Carr for example, would the threat of a dangerous passing game not improve our offense on the whole and give us more long-term success?

Is Derek Carr that much more dangerous as a passer than Tyrod? I personally dont think so. Carr is no doubt a better pure passer but to me he isnt anything other than solid, and Tyrod is a rung below him in passing ability but he makes it up in playmaking ability.

Long term success is another thing - Tyrod sometimes needs to get rid of the ball instead of trying to string out scrambles for a 1 yard gain and taking a big hit. He has a solid build for a smaller guy but hes still not very big and I have my doubts about his ability to stay healthy enough to maintain his scrambling ability, which is his best asset.

To answer your question more directly, I dont think we'd be a better team with Carr, perhaps marginally but I dont see it personally.

[SpikedLemonade]

NO

[Mahdi]

Is Derek Carr that much more dangerous as a passer than Tyrod? I personally dont think so. Carr is no doubt a better pure passer but to me he isnt anything other than solid, and Tyrod is a rung below him in passing ability but he makes it up in playmaking ability.

Long term success is another thing - Tyrod sometimes needs to get rid of the ball instead of trying to string out scrambles for a 1 yard gain and taking a big hit. He has a solid build for a smaller guy but hes still not very big and I have my doubts about his ability to stay healthy enough to maintain his scrambling ability, which is his best asset.

To answer your question more directly, I dont think we'd be a better team with Carr, perhaps marginally but I dont see it personally.

I don't know how much you have seen of Derek Carr but he is way ahead of Taylor as a passer. He can threaten every part of the football field and has pretty good accuracy. On top of that he has shown many times that he can carry a team with his arm having won many games in the 4th quarter for the Raiders in obvious passing situations.

IMO if we had Carr with our current personnel our offense would be dangerous on every possession and we would have a much better shot at making, and winning in the playoffs.

[Mahdi]

he might not be the best QB in the NFL, but people forget what well end up with if we dont extend him.

I agree with this, we don't know what we would end up with at QB if we don't keep Tyrod. But does that mean the Bills should settle for a QB if they KNOW he has limitations that inhibit them from being a contending team?

[Pinkerton Security]

I don't know how much you have seen of Derek Carr but he is way ahead of Taylor as a passer. He can threaten every part of the football field and has pretty good accuracy. On top of that he has shown many times that he can carry a team with his arm having won many games in the 4th quarter for the Raiders in obvious passing situations.

IMO if we had Carr with our current personnel our offense would be dangerous on every possession and we would have a much better shot at making, and winning in the playoffs.

Fair enough, I personally think he is a bit overrated but hes prob a better overall QB than Tyrod.

One COULD argue that Crabtree and Amari make him look good - I doubt Robert Woods, Goodwin, Clay, etc as passing options (right now thats what we have) could hold the jocks of Amari and Crabs

[chris66]

How old is tt. If he loses a step he becomes a very different qb.

[Mahdi]

Fair enough, I personally think he is a bit overrated but hes prob a better overall QB than Tyrod.

One COULD argue that Crabtree and Amari make him look good - I doubt Robert Woods, Goodwin, Clay, etc as passing options (right now thats what we have) could hold the jocks of Amari and Crabs

Amari and Crabtree of course are top quality WRs but if you see the placement Carr has been putting on some of his throws to these guys it's pretty impressive.

[psubills62]

No. To me a franchise QB is someone you can put on a team and build the entire team around them. At this point I see Tyrod as a solid QB who is a solid fit for what Buffalo is doing.

I don't think he's worth 20 million or whatever that option is. But my main question is how much of a dropoff is it to the next QB? No idea who we'd get, but I have a feeling it might be a bigger dropoff than many think.

[Figster]

Yes, and the people discounting Taylors passing abilities need to realize Buffalo is built to run the football and have the best rushing attack in the league.

A good portion of the throws Taylor made in the 49ers game the typical pocket QB gets sacked for a loss.

Franchise QB is what fits the team best and Tyrod Taylor fits the Bill.

The coaches believe Taylors the guy and the players believe Taylors the guy.

Tyrod Taylor is the Bills franchise QB now as long as Rex Ryan is HC IMO.

[Ingtar33]

I think some of the guys in this forum should watch other nfl teams for a few games. the standard level of QB play in the NFL isn't all that much different then what we're getting out of Taylor right now.


Tyrod is a better option then what about 1/2 of the teams in the league have under center. If we let him go, he'd have zero problem finding another starting gig.

Is he an irreplaceable franchise qb?
-nope, but then neither is Eli Manning, and Eli probably will be a hall of famer. Eli's been very replaceable for huge stretches of his career, putting up journeyman numbers at best. Yet he got smoking hot for two playoff runs and since he has those rings no one cares. Look at the season Aaron Rogers had last year and is having again this year. Would you rather Tyrod be replaced by Aaron Rogers (2016 version)? Frankly Tyrod is having a far superior season to Rogers. What about Luck? Luck was poop last year, and he's been poop this year. How about Cam Newton? Cam Newton has been a shell of himself.

Here are some stats for you

T. Taylor: 62.4% Comp, 1,076 yards, 6.52y/a, 8TD, 2INT, 92.4 Rating
A. Rogers: 60.2% Comp, 1,170 yards, 6.46y/a, 10TD, 4INT, 88.4 Rating
R. Willson: 65.9% Comp, 1,334 yards, 7.85y/a, 5TD, 1INT, 97.0 Rating
A. Smith: 67.4% Comp, 1,297 yards, 6.83 y/a, 5TD, 2INT, 91.1 Rating
C. Newton: 57.8% Comp, 1,296 yards, 7.20 y/a, 8TD, 6INT, 81.2 Rating
S. Bradford: 70.4% Comp, 990 yards, 7.92 y/a, 6TD, 0INT, 109.8 Rating

Has Tyrod been lighting it up through the air this year? Of course not. Nor will he ever as long as we can hang 200/game rushing on people. But i'd argue he's "good enough" to break the playoff drought. Maybe not this year, this year has a pretty brutal schedule, but he's good enough to get us to the playoffs. And depending on the team around him probably good enough to win a few playoff games.

Reminder, before Tyrod got to buffalo we were CRYING about how the team wished it had a QB at even the Alex Smith level. I'd say Tyrod has been pretty consistently better than Alex Smith. At least i'd rather have tyrod then alex smith. Think about that. Before Tyrod came to buffalo, our sights were so low for a starting QB we would have settled for Alex Smith because Alex Smith would have been a massive improvement over every single QB we had since Bledsoe. The argument for Alex Smith was basically, that he didn't turn the ball over, and he wouldn't hurt the team. He wouldn't win much for you, but he'd keep you in it. Tyrod at least can make big plays with his arms or legs, and he still doesn't turn the ball over.

I'm not saying you don't draft a QB, Nor am I saying that if Matt Ryan suddenly becomes availible we don't go for him. What I am saying is people need to get off Tyrod's back a bit. He'll never be payton manning or marsha brady. What he can be is Russel Wilson. I can live with Russel Wilson.

[Figster]

I think some of the guys in this forum should watch other nfl teams for a few games. the standard level of QB play in the NFL isn't all that much different then what we're getting out of Taylor right now.


Tyrod is a better option then what about 1/2 of the teams in the league have under center. If we let him go, he'd have zero problem finding another starting gig.

Is he an irreplaceable franchise qb?
-nope, but then neither is Eli Manning, and Eli probably will be a hall of famer. Eli's been very replaceable for huge stretches of his career, putting up journeyman numbers at best. Yet he got smoking hot for two playoff runs and since he has those rings no one cares. Look at the season Aaron Rogers had last year and is having again this year. Would you rather Tyrod be replaced by Aaron Rogers (2016 version)? Frankly Tyrod is having a far superior season to Rogers. What about Luck? Luck was poop last year, and he's been poop this year. How about Cam Newton? Cam Newton has been a shell of himself.

Here are some stats for you

T. Taylor: 62.4% Comp, 1,076 yards, 6.52y/a, 8TD, 2INT, 92.4 Rating
A. Rogers: 60.2% Comp, 1,170 yards, 6.46y/a, 10TD, 4INT, 88.4 Rating
R. Willson: 65.9% Comp, 1,334 yards, 7.85y/a, 5TD, 1INT, 97.0 Rating
A. Smith: 67.4% Comp, 1,297 yards, 6.83 y/a, 5TD, 2INT, 91.1 Rating
C. Newton: 57.8% Comp, 1,296 yards, 7.20 y/a, 8TD, 6INT, 81.2 Rating
S. Bradford: 70.4% Comp, 990 yards, 7.92 y/a, 6TD, 0INT, 109.8 Rating

Has Tyrod been lighting it up through the air this year? Of course not. Nor will he ever as long as we can hang 200/game rushing on people. But i'd argue he's "good enough" to break the playoff drought. Maybe not this year, this year has a pretty brutal schedule, but he's good enough to get us to the playoffs. And depending on the team around him probably good enough to win a few playoff games.

Reminder, before Tyrod got to buffalo we were CRYING about how the team wished it had a QB at even the Alex Smith level. I'd say Tyrod has been pretty consistently better than Alex Smith. At least i'd rather have tyrod then alex smith. Think about that. Before Tyrod came to buffalo, our sights were so low for a starting QB we would have settled for Alex Smith because Alex Smith would have been a massive improvement over every single QB we had since Bledsoe. The argument for Alex Smith was basically, that he didn't turn the ball over, and he wouldn't hurt the team. He wouldn't win much for you, but he'd keep you in it. Tyrod at least can make big plays with his arms or legs, and he still doesn't turn the ball over.

I'm not saying you don't draft a QB, Nor am I saying that if Matt Ryan suddenly becomes availible we don't go for him. What I am saying is people need to get off Tyrod's back a bit. He'll never be payton manning or marsha brady. What he can be is Russel Wilson. I can live with Russel Wilson.

Go watch the Colts and A Luck...

[Ingtar33]

yeah, the colts lost too. Look at luck's career numbers. Tyrod has been a better QB then Luck over the course of his career. Granted with a much smaller sample size. Luck turns the ball over like Eli on a drinking binge. It doesn't mean anything if you can throw for 400 yards a game if your statline has a 1TD and 2INT number next to it. We know all about that junk. That's what Bledsoe gave us. That's pretty much all Eli has given the giants outside the two superbowl seasons.

Last night his play was pretty much responsible for the Colts fading down the stretch and losing.

Is Luck or Eli a better passer than Tyrod? Sure they are. But they're also dumbasses with the football.


ONE OTHER THING: I was pointing out that tyrod is better than 1/2 the starters. there will be plenty of QBs you can point to who are better then tyrod this year. That doesn't change that colts fans are getting enraged with Luck because he's no Payton Manning.

[Novacane]

The question wasn't is Tyrod our best option. It was is Tyrod a franchise QB. There's very few of those. He's not one. He is our best option though. This year and probably after that.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Here are some stats for you

T. Taylor: 62.4% Comp, 1,076 yards, 6.52y/a, 8TD, 2INT, 92.4 Rating
A. Rogers: 60.2% Comp, 1,170 yards, 6.46y/a, 10TD, 4INT, 88.4 Rating
R. Willson: 65.9% Comp, 1,334 yards, 7.85y/a, 5TD, 1INT, 97.0 Rating
A. Smith: 67.4% Comp, 1,297 yards, 6.83 y/a, 5TD, 2INT, 91.1 Rating
C. Newton: 57.8% Comp, 1,296 yards, 7.20 y/a, 8TD, 6INT, 81.2 Rating
S. Bradford: 70.4% Comp, 990 yards, 7.92 y/a, 6TD, 0INT, 109.8 Rating

I like how Tyrod has played 1 more game than every QB you listed and still doesn't have better numbers than these guys. Did you do that on purpose?

[ICRockets]

I think it's incredibly difficult to judge Tyrod's potential when this is the receiving corps he has at his disposal. There's no doubt he can be inaccurate at times, and it's certainly possible that this will be a consistent problem as we go forward, but personally I think that with time in the system and better personnel Tyrod can lead this offense with aplomb.

[sukie]

I think it's incredibly difficult to judge Tyrod's potential when this is the receiving corps he has at his disposal. There's no doubt he can be inaccurate at times, and it's certainly possible that this will be a consistent problem as we go forward, but personally I think that with time in the system and better personnel Tyrod can lead this offense with aplomb.

Googling...

noun
noun: aplomb



self-confidence or assurance, especially when in a demanding situation.










I have grown weary of excuses... Oline sucks WR suck... what is next? Center of field grass too long? Tyrod is Tyrod. Not a franchise QB but playing good right now

[psubills62]

I do tend to agree with Ingtar that the QB play in the NFL simply isn't as consistently good as it has been previously. NFL fans were spoiled with two elite QB's in Manning and Brady. Nobody else was on their level and I don't see anyone currently getting to that level any time soon. In this current NFL, Taylor is a solid starter.

[Figster]

The question wasn't is Tyrod our best option. It was is Tyrod a franchise QB. There's very few of those. He's not one. He is our best option though. This year and probably after that.
I find it amazing some people are judging Taylor on something he's never had the opportunity to do because Buffalo is a run oriented football team.

[Lucidvizion]

I have grown weary of excuses... Oline sucks WR suck... what is next? Center of field grass too long? Tyrod is Tyrod. Not a franchise QB but playing good right now

I don't consider it an excuse at all. I'm impressed with the amount of production Tyrod has been able to get from Woods and Goodwin. Many of us here were assuming Goodwin wasn't even going to make the team this year and he's our #2 receiver.

[Mahdi]

I do tend to agree with Ingtar that the QB play in the NFL simply isn't as consistently good as it has been previously. NFL fans were spoiled with two elite QB's in Manning and Brady. Nobody else was on their level and I don't see anyone currently getting to that level any time soon. In this current NFL, Taylor is a solid starter.

I suppose the point is valid...

Tyrod does present us with the best possible QB we can have at this moment and in the foreseeable future.

I do still have a concern for future/long-term success... but with that being said, defenses are so geared towards stopping pass offenses that run-oriented offenses have the edge in terms of being able to physically impose themselves these days.

Dallas and Buffalo are good examples, I also like what Tennessee is doing with DeMarco Murray, Pittsburgh with Bell and Atlanta with Freeman/Coleman.

These offenses are rolling by pounding opposing defenses so far. Whether it can be done in the playoffs is another story though as historically great QB play has been the deciding factor in January, last year's Broncos were more the aberration. Even Russell Wilson with Marshawn Lynch in the backfield was throwing the ball extremely well to lead them to two SB appearances. Can TT do that? Maybe, but he has not shown it.

[Mace]

If people want to keep chasing the mythical franchise QB, they'll have to redefine him, for this team, he's not the big granite pocket passer, he's not the dink and dunk quick read west coast offense game manager, and he's not the flamethrowing gunslinger.

As it stands today, he's a guy who will throw 26-38 balls a game, needs to complete 17-19 if them, minimizing turnovers& mistakes, completing timely passes, remains mobile and elusive, and executes the intended offense, which is based on a rushing attack.

Taylor does what he's supposed to do, does what they want him to do. They don't want him throwing 40 times a game for 300 yards, that's not on Taylor.

You don't get a Bugatti to pull a trailer of tools, a pickup to truck your big gulp and cheeseburger from 7-11, or a moped to transport your family to events, unless you simply want to that badly, which won't have the best results.

For better or worse, this offense needs Taylor for what it intends to do and Taylor seems up to it. Still time for anything to change, a lot of season to go.

As if right now, he's the Man if not The Man, or THE MAN. Give him a chance to earn his correct number of caps, I'd say.

[justasportsfan]

Even if the bills pick up the option, he's is still NOT a franchise QB. What he will get paid is the average of an average qb.It's the going rate of an average starting qb in the NFL.

IMO, Tyrod is a play not to lose qb . He's not your go to guy when you need someone to win a game for you or when you need to place the entire game on his shoulders. That's Shady's role .

[Joe Fo Sho]

The more I see him play and here praise from Rex/Whaley about him, the more I think he's going to be our future QB. Whether you think future QB means franchise QB or not, I see it happening. Rex is clearly trying to use a very specific and known formula for winning. He wants to run the ball, play stout defense, and live off of turnover differential. I honestly think our coaches are perfectly content getting the ball at the 20, moving to the 50, punting the opposition deep in their end, getting the ball back at our 40, moving to the 20, and kicking a field. Rinse lather repeat, with the occasional offensive touchdown thrown in there.

For me, because of the position we're in with having already signed him to a contract, the decision comes down to 1 question. Are we willing to start over with an available QB next year? Whether it be in the draft or in free agency, it doesn't matter, and I don't know that Rex and Whaley can risk their job on an unknown commodity at QB next year. Rex is old school and has probably been trying to get a QB who takes care of the ball like Tyrod since he became a head coach. With the Jets, his QBs have averaged 1.15 interceptions per game for 5 years. Anyone think we could win this style of football if Tyrod was throwing over 1 interception per game? Not a chance. I don't think Rex would risk signing another Sanchez/Geno.

I think Rex and Whaley have already saved their jobs for next year, even though I didn't think it was at risk anyway. Tyrod would have to lay a serious egg in order to lose favor with this coaching staff/front office. I think we all need to get ready to ride the Tyrod Train for the next couple of years.

[trapezeus]

i want tt to succeed in buffalo and he largely is. but I don't know if it is reliably going to put up the production we need. he seems to have issues trusting plays. when a receiver is breaking open and he needs to throw it, he won't do it at the point that the play should work. that extra holding time creates issues with making the original play work, it allows defenders to jump on it and it ultimately effects the fluidity of the offsense. we still get a lot of 3 and outs.


we beat a bad team and that's a step in the right direction,but those first few drives in the 3rd quarter were awful. until he can read the play, make a decision and go with it, he will be relying on his legs. and as long as he relies on his legs, he has injury risk

[Ed]

This whole thread is based on the premise that Tyrod has already reached his ceiling and won't improve. I think it's pretty unreasonable to try and determine if he's a franchise qb or not after 20 starts. It's not like the franchise QBs people want to compare him to produced like franchise QBs early in their careers.


I find it pretty baffling how eager some fans are to send this team back to QB purgatory.

[BillsOwnAll]

I like how Tyrod has played 1 more game than every QB you listed and still doesn't have better numbers than these guys. Did you do that on purpose?

How many rushing yards do all those teams have? Bills are an offense built on the run first

[Buffalogic]

When you compare him to the steady model of franchise QB's, he doesn't fit. But I don't think that ultimately shuts the door on him being a franchise QB. TT is a unique model. As such, a unique perspective is needed when determining if he is a franchise QB.

I think Russel Wilson in his first few years fell under the same type of question. He has turned out to be a franchise guy, but at first, I thought he was a gimmick with a great running game and defense.

TT needs more time to prove or disprove his franchise status because his evaluation is much less straight-forward than your typical qb.

[Mahdi]

This whole thread is based on the premise that Tyrod has already reached his ceiling and won't improve. I think it's pretty unreasonable to try and determine if he's a franchise qb or not after 20 starts. It's not like the franchise QBs people want to compare him to produced like franchise QBs early in their careers.


I find it pretty baffling how eager some fans are to send this team back to QB purgatory.

I understand your point, however, the opening post is clear that it is asking the question assuming that Tyrod does not show improvement and that what you see is what you get with him, is he a franchise QB.

IMO, he will improve for sure, but the question is will he improve enough to be a competent passer. Right now he is not, which is why we still have so many three-and-outs and long stretches with no offensive output.

Will better defenses be able to shut down a one dimensional offense regardless of the strength of that dimension?

[trapezeus]

that's why this is such a good thread. TT is good enough to keep the team moving forward right now, but we will need to see how he does against good teams where we need drives.

I get that we will be stuck with the fitz's and ortons otherwise and they aren't good enough. but on the other hand, TT isn't worth $20-25MM over 6Y with his body of work so far. if he is asked to sit back and make a quick read and throw it quick and make the right decision, he doesn't seem to have it. on the other hand, he makes something out of nothing and doesn't have issue launching the ball down the field. and that's more than enough to get some wins.

and frankly, he looks less accurate this year than last year. obviously after 4 straight wins its hard to not say, "he's good enough". but looking at particular plays, he is still having the same issuesof looking at one receiver the whole way and waiting longer than he should to get rid of the ball.

[Joe Fo Sho]

How many rushing yards do all those teams have? Bills are an offense built on the run first

I'm not sure what your point is, but of the teams on that list several are built to run first.

- The Panthers are 5th in the league in rushing this year and were 2nd last year.
- Seattle has typically been run 1st, while they've been struggling at it without Lynch. They're terrible this year, but were 3rd in the NFL last year.
- I don't think I have to explain that the Vikings and Chiefs are build pretty much the same way we are. Run first and play solid defense. The Vikings are terrible at running this year, I didn't realize that until I looked it up. They were top 5 last year. The Chiefs were 6th last year.
- Green Bay was 9th in rushing last year.

This list seems to be comprised of some of the most run-first teams over the last 2 years. Seems like a good comparison to me, except for the fact that Tyrod has played an extra game, or 20% more football than the other guys. Seems unfair to the other guys on the list.

Atlanta is 9th in the league this year is rushing. They have 3 less rushing attempts per game than we do. How is their QB doing? Is it hindering Matt Ryan like you claim it is Tyrod?

[Generalissimus Gibby]

When the name of the game is ground and pound the only thing you ask your QB to do is not make stupid mistakes that cause you to lose. I have not seen too much this season that makes me say he has cost us games. Therein lies the problem. I cannot say he is a franchise qb or not because there is insufficient data. I think he is currently the right guy for the job and has done nothing to merit being benched. Franchise qb? Not enough data, but I have liked what I have seen so far. We are what five plays from being 6-0? Yeah, I like where we are.

[YardRat]

Taylor is adequate, not franchise. He's a front-runner with limited throwing ability and accuracy issues. His running ability and intangibles are certainly big positives, and when the running game is clicking he hits just enough throws to be effective, but in a tight, late game or down more than one score he's not a guy that is going to get you back into the game with his arm. All things considered in one bundle, there are certainly QBs in the league that are 'worse' or 'better', but when the running game gets shut down (and it will) he has yet to show he can overcome that and put points on the board throwing the ball and that's not the guy you label as 'franchise' and throw $20 mil at.

[Joe Fo Sho]

When the name of the game is ground and pound the only thing you ask your QB to do is not make stupid mistakes that cause you to lose. I have not seen too much this season that makes me say he has cost us games. Therein lies the problem. I cannot say he is a franchise qb or not because there is insufficient data. I think he is currently the right guy for the job and has done nothing to merit being benched. Franchise qb? Not enough data, but I have liked what I have seen so far. We are what five plays from being 6-0? Yeah, I like where we are.

Yeah, I don't know how to describe it. He's not a 'franchise QB' in the traditional sense of the phrase, at all. Those guys are basically interchangeable between teams. Brees, Rivers, Rodgers, etc. can go on any team and succeed. Tyrod can't.

He's not a franchise QB, but he's our franchise QB. He's the best we've got and we probably can't afford to lose him. I guess it's the best we can ask for after 16 years of Collins/Van Pelt/Flutie/Johnson/Bledsoe/Losman/Edwards/Fitzpatrick/Brohm/EJ/Thad/Tuel/Orton/Cassel.

[LVGrown]

yeah, the colts lost too. Look at luck's career numbers. Tyrod has been a better QB then Luck over the course of his career. Granted with a much smaller sample size. Luck turns the ball over like Eli on a drinking binge. It doesn't mean anything if you can throw for 400 yards a game if your statline has a 1TD and 2INT number next to it. We know all about that junk. That's what Bledsoe gave us. That's pretty much all Eli has given the giants outside the two superbowl seasons.

Last night his play was pretty much responsible for the Colts fading down the stretch and losing.

Is Luck or Eli a better passer than Tyrod? Sure they are. But they're also dumbasses with the football.


ONE OTHER THING: I was pointing out that tyrod is better than 1/2 the starters. there will be plenty of QBs you can point to who are better then tyrod this year. That doesn't change that colts fans are getting enraged with Luck because he's no Payton Manning.

Agreed. When the Bills win I tend to watch football all day and watching some of these other QB's reminds me of just how difficult the position is. Watching Andrew Luck, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, Aaron Rogers and Eli Manning is just as frustrating as watching Tyrod. They all waste time outs because the team isn't ready, they all take terrible sacks, they all make passes that leave us all scratching our heads, they all miss the wide open guy, they all blow leads or last minute comebacks. We just focus so much on how terrible our guy is that we look past the other teams bad QB play.

In the end, winning makes those things forgivable. So as long as Tyrod keeps adding to the Win column he is my franchise QB.

[Mouldsie]

As I define it, no. I dont see one in the upcoming draft yet either though so whatever.

[Night Train]

Doesn't need to be solved this season. The contract with team buyouts solved that. Cap hit can be adjusted in the spring.

C. Jones is here and another QB will be drafted/signed in the spring regardless.

Right now, we know what we have in Taylor and he's working with his running and limited passing.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Doesn't need to be solved this season. The contract with team buyouts solved that. Cap hit can be adjusted in the spring.

Can you explain this?

Is there more than 1 buyout for his contract, besides this offseason?

[Night Train]

Can you explain this?

Is there more than 1 buyout for his contract, besides this offseason?


http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/8/16/12505676/full-tyrod-taylor-annual-contract-breakdowns

[DesertFox24]

Murph said it best he might be this franchises QB for the next couple of year. I firmly believe that Cardale will get a shot in year 3 or 4 of his current contract. We also need to expect them to draft another QB this year or bring in a cheap vet as EJ will be gone.

[Ingtar33]

I find it pretty baffling how eager some fans are to send this team back to QB purgatory.

You've obviously not been paying a lot of attention to the vocal minority on this board. If a player is getting more then 3.5mil a year and not producing at a hall of fame level he's 'trash and needs to be cut immediately,' because the 'backup is just as good' or there is a magic rookie waiting in the 6th round of this draft who's the next tom brady because, you know tb was a 6th round pick, and wasting any draft pick on a 1st round QB is a waste of time because we could have got the next drew brees or russell wilson late in the draft, and we could use the salary cap room for... the next overpaid piece of trash we're going to cut.

To this group of fan, cutting a player who irritates them is more important then asking the question "what will we replace him with", because he's completely interchangeable with a 6th round draft pick. and if that draft pick can't replace him, then he sucks and needs to be cut because there is this hot 7th rounder their cousin told them about who plays at Coastal Carolina , who is totally going to be the next Brian Urlacher.

seriously



Doesn't need to be solved this season. The contract with team buyouts solved that. Cap hit can be adjusted in the spring.

C. Jones is here and another QB will be drafted/signed in the spring regardless.

Right now, we know what we have in Taylor and he's working with his running and limited passing.

we won't buy him out, because next season even with the option being picked up he'll be the 14th highest payed QB in the league. which is about how he plays. He'll be getting paid what he deserves, even if you think it's too much, that's about what a mid level NFL starter earns.

[The Jokeman]

Tyrod is a game manager in the same way Russell Wilson was in his first two seasons. I give him credit at avoiding turnovers and being a good enough playmaker with his legs yet ultimate he is not a good enough passer. That said if we get to the playoffs with Tyrod this year he stays but I'd be willing to develop guys behind him.

[The Natrix]

I'm not sure but I know Fitz is not.

[Mouldsie]

You guys really don't think Russel Wilson is that good huh

[X-Era]

I'm going with:

We won't know unless he's in a passing scheme... The scheme, along with injuries, reduces his opportunities to show what he can do.

I think he can/could be if he was in a position to throw more and develop his passing.

All that said, I'm not sure it matters that much. He does enough through the air and with his running to win as long as we keep running the ball the way we do.

No, I don't want a change at QB nor to start over. Furthermore, unless Tyrod completely regresses the Bills will pickup his option... He's here for next year at least.

[Joe Fo Sho]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/8/16/12505676/full-tyrod-taylor-annual-contract-breakdowns

Ok...so how does what you said make sense?


Doesn't need to be solved this season. The contract with team buyouts solved that.

We have 1 buyout, at the end of this season. Seems to me that we DO need this to be solved this season. If we pick up his option for next year, cutting him in 2017 would give us a cap hit of $18 mil, and cutting him in 2018 would give us a cap hit of $28 mil.

How has this contract solved our dilemma?

[trapezeus]

TT is good enough for week 6. But he will have to get better. and that means reading a d better. and it means that he will have to run a 2 minute drill effectively and maybe put up a come from behind victory once. he's never done it for us yet. and once he has that mastery, Hopefuly something we see this year, then we can feel like he's taking steps forward.


If the season ended today and the bills were 10-6 and missed playoffs, but he didn't take another step forward, I think you bring him back, but you have to keep looking for someone. if he takes that step, then you can maybe let cardale assume full #2 role next year and keep him developing. I get that we've had significantly worse, but the bills have beat some bad teams that didn't put points up on the board.

TT ,to be someone you feel comfortable with for years, should take a step this year to make it a no brainer. if he stays where he is, the bills have to still keep searching and developing talent actively as I don't think TT will be your qb 3-4 years from now.

[swiper]

Anybody else having fun watching the Jets implode?

[djjimkelly]

tyrod = mark sanchez lucky to be on a rex ryan defense running game led team

[Ingtar33]

tyrod = mark sanchez lucky to be on a rex ryan defense running game led team

mark sanchez wishes he was Tyrod.

Mark Sanchez was a turnover machine, and never put up tyrod's numbers in the air. you really need put down the beer, and post when sober.

[Arm of Harm]

yeah, the colts lost too. Look at luck's career numbers. Tyrod has been a better QB then Luck over the course of his career. Granted with a much smaller sample size. Luck turns the ball over like Eli on a drinking binge. It doesn't mean anything if you can throw for 400 yards a game if your statline has a 1TD and 2INT number next to it.

Over the course of his career, Luck has thrown about twice as many TDs as INTs. While there's room to improve that ratio, it's not like that guy is strangling his team's chances of winning or anything. I'd also point out that the Colts' offense rests on Luck's shoulders to a much greater degree than the Bills' offense rests on Tyrod's. This season Luck is averaging 280 passing yards per game, compared to just 180 passing yards per game for Tyrod.

Below is the career average yards per pass attempt for several QBs:

Tom Brady: 7.5
Drew Brees: 7.5
Peyton Manning: 7.7

Matt Schaub: 7.6

I've got nothing against Matt Schaub. In his prime he was a solid starter. An important part of his football team. But to suggest he belongs in the same category as Brady, Brees, and Manning is absurd. So why do the numbers make it look like he belongs in that category, even though he clearly does not? Brady, Brees, and Manning quarterbacked pass-oriented offenses. Schaub quarterbacked a run-oriented offense. In a typical run-oriented offense, a comparatively high percentage of a QB's passes will be to targets deep downfield, thereby boosting his average yards per pass attempt. In a pass-oriented offense your passing game will typically become a partial substitute for your running game. Those shorter and intermediate throws tend to dilute the QB's average yards per attempt. That's why Matt Schaub isn't as good as his numbers would make him look.

That logic applies not only to Matt Schaub, but to just about any QB operating from within a run-oriented offense. Including Tyrod Taylor. To his credit, Taylor has done a good job of avoiding turnovers, and of making plays with his legs. There are also some things in the passing game he does well, such as his deep throws. But his weaknesses as a pocket passer will typically keep his yardage totals well below what you'd expect from an Andrew Luck or a Derek Carr. If the Bills run the ball well enough, and play good enough defense, they might be able to continue hiding those weaknesses.

[Mace]

-Luck averages 38 passing attempts per game. Taylor averages 27 since here
-Indy is a passing based offense 237 p/a vs 144 r/a in 2016, 619/386 in 2015 and that's with 8 games of Hasselbeck
-Buffalo is not a passing based offense 168 p/a, 178 r/a in 2016, 465/509 in 2015 and that's with only 12 games of McCoy

You can't really know his perceived weaknesses are weaknesses unless you let him throw 35-40 balls a game. Well why won't they, it's because he can't !

You can't know that either yet, the receiver corps is achy and thin, and the Bills don't intend him to.

There's this assumption he doesn't sling for 300 yards all over the place with 5 td's a game because he can't. You can't know that. This staff built the team for 27 attempts per game, and more rushes. That was what the Bills intend to do.

At the moment it's working.

I want another Jim Kelly, slinging the rock effectively all over the place. Boom ! Boom ! Boom ! Most do too.

The Bills don't though. They want a mobile, elusive, percentage guy with a deep ball for variety who can run.

Best time to discuss Taylor will be after the last game, imho. I'm not crazy over him, but I can't not like the job he's doing, which he's evidently supposed to be doing, as he's doing it, by choice of the staff.

[Arm of Harm]

-Luck averages 38 passing attempts per game. Taylor averages 27 since here
There's this assumption he doesn't sling for 300 yards all over the place with 5 td's a game because he can't. You can't know that.

What you label an assumption I label an evidence-based conclusion. And yes, there is evidence in support of that conclusion.

1) The Ravens' defensive plan for Taylor was to make him be a QB. Considering that he'd spent years there, I have to think they know a thing or two about his weaknesses. Especially considering how well their defensive game plan worked.

2) When I look over nfl.com's play-by-play, I'm often struck by the number of times that they note inaccurate throws on Taylor's part.

3) As a college QB, Taylor was a much less accomplished passer than Russell Wilson. It's true that Buffalo and Seattle believe in the philosophy of run the ball and win with defense. But Wilson does a much better job as a passer, within that type of offense, than Tyrod Taylor.

4) Taylor hasn't demonstrated the ability to make multiple reads. Nor much success in the intermediate passing game, or in the middle of the field. You can get away with neglecting those things if the majority of your plays are running plays, the majority of your offensive yardage running yardage. But a QB in a pass-oriented offense has to be able to have consistent success in those areas.

The Bills' coaching staff has done a good job of building an offense that maximizes the effects of Taylor's strengths while masking the effects of his weaknesses. Those weaknesses are still there. If a defense succeeds in shutting down Buffalo's running game, we'll be forced to rely on Tyrod's passing for our offensive production. At that point it would become much, much more difficult for the Bills to hide Taylor's deficiencies as a passer.

[jimmifli]

I want another Jim Kelly, slinging the rock effectively all over the place. Boom ! Boom ! Boom ! Most do too.

The Bills don't though. They want a mobile, elusive, percentage guy with a deep ball for variety who can run.

It's about assembling the most talent under the cap. Boom ! Boom ! Boom ! guys are never on sale. They command a premium, and if your Boom ! Boom ! Boom ! guy isn't quite elite you still have to overpay him. Plus he demands a lot more talent protecting him. Big money Oline. That pretty much forces a 60/40 (or more) slant to the offense in terms of cap spend. And when lots of teams are chasing that it drives up the price for those types of QBs and the Olineman that protect them.

A mobile guy means saving money on the QB and likely the Oline. That lets you spend 60/40 on defense if you choose, or spend that savings on other positions. And those positions may be more likely to go on sale. Especially if fewer teams use your strategy.

It's one of the reasons I like the 3/4, that personnel seems to come a little cheaper.

The problem is that no matter which strategy we've pursued, we've been **** at spending (until recently) and evaluating talent.

[Mace]

What you label an assumption I label an evidence-based conclusion. And yes, there is evidence in support of that conclusion.

1) The Ravens' defensive plan for Taylor was to make him be a QB. Considering that he'd spent years there, I have to think they know a thing or two about his weaknesses. Especially considering how well their defensive game plan worked.

2) When I look over nfl.com's play-by-play, I'm often struck by the number of times that they note inaccurate throws on Taylor's part.

3) As a college QB, Taylor was a much less accomplished passer than Russell Wilson. It's true that Buffalo and Seattle believe in the philosophy of run the ball and win with defense. But Wilson does a much better job as a passer, within that type of offense, than Tyrod Taylor.

4) Taylor hasn't demonstrated the ability to make multiple reads. Nor much success in the intermediate passing game, or in the middle of the field. You can get away with neglecting those things if the majority of your plays are running plays, the majority of your offensive yardage running yardage. But a QB in a pass-oriented offense has to be able to have consistent success in those areas.

The Bills' coaching staff has done a good job of building an offense that maximizes the effects of Taylor's strengths while masking the effects of his weaknesses. Those weaknesses are still there. If a defense succeeds in shutting down Buffalo's running game, we'll be forced to rely on Tyrod's passing for our offensive production. At that point it would become much, much more difficult for the Bills to hide Taylor's deficiencies as a passer.

Nah, I just don't agree. You're still assuming they're building an offense to minimize Taylor instead of plugging Taylor in to maximize their offense philiosophy.

In the thread where I linked to Taylor's completion chart from last year, it didn't prove Taylor can't throw over the middle, it proved they didn't call plays over the middle. Taylor has been in the NFL since 2011, his college career is about as relevant as Dan Lefevour's.

Taylor doesn't call his own plays, coordinate his own offense, or direct team philosophy.

As I said, I'm not yet sold on Taylor, but people expecting him to be hurling the rock more often are missing the whole offensive philosophy the team has implemented and embraced, and until he throws 35 times a game by plan on a regular basis, there's just no proof he can't, no matter what nfl.com says, and they've said an awful lot of things that proved incorrect just because it's their job to say stuff.

The time to make book on Taylor is still after the last game we play or darn close, and I'm not even all in on him. It's simple obvious.

[Mace]

It's about assembling the most talent under the cap. Boom ! Boom ! Boom ! guys are never on sale. They command a premium, and if your Boom ! Boom ! Boom ! guy isn't quite elite you still have to overpay him. Plus he demands a lot more talent protecting him. Big money Oline. That pretty much forces a 60/40 (or more) slant to the offense in terms of cap spend. And when lots of teams are chasing that it drives up the price for those types of QBs and the Olineman that protect them.

A mobile guy means saving money on the QB and likely the Oline. That lets you spend 60/40 on defense if you choose, or spend that savings on other positions. And those positions may be more likely to go on sale. Especially if fewer teams use your strategy.

It's one of the reasons I like the 3/4, that personnel seems to come a little cheaper.

The problem is that no matter which strategy we've pursued, we've been **** at spending (until recently) and evaluating talent.

Maybe, I can't tell. But I do know Rex for better or for worse, embraces his old school methodology in terms of offense. Sanchez and Geno Smith via draft, became expensive (again Smith just because of the pick) ineffectives to "the plan".

I don't know "the plan" works, but it's pretty consistent in terms of this staff.

[Arm of Harm]

Nah, I just don't agree. You're still assuming they're building an offense to minimize Taylor instead of plugging Taylor in to maximize their offense philiosophy.

In the thread where I linked to Taylor's completion chart from last year, it didn't prove Taylor can't throw over the middle, it proved they didn't call plays over the middle. Taylor has been in the NFL since 2011, his college career is about as relevant as Dan Lefevour's.

Taylor doesn't call his own plays, coordinate his own offense, or direct team philosophy.

As I said, I'm not yet sold on Taylor, but people expecting him to be hurling the rock more often are missing the whole offensive philosophy the team has implemented and embraced, and until he throws 35 times a game by plan on a regular basis, there's just no proof he can't, no matter what nfl.com says, and they've said an awful lot of things that proved incorrect just because it's their job to say stuff.

The time to make book on Taylor is still after the last game we play or darn close, and I'm not even all in on him. It's simple obvious.

No conceivable offensive philosophy would require Taylor to simply ignore wide open receivers. Especially not if the offensive line has given him a good amount of time in the pocket. Nor is a "run the ball and win with defense" strategy aided when his throws are off-target.

Whatever strengths and weaknesses we're seeing from him now, we'd also be likely to see if he was asked to greatly increase his per-game number of pass attempts. It's not as though the weaknesses we're seeing from him now would magically go away if he was asked to throw the ball more often.

Is he a good fit for this style of offense? Yes he is. He doesn't turn the ball over very much, he can buy time with his legs, he has a good deep ball, and he adds another dimension to the running game. All of which is well and good.

"Run the ball and win with defense" can get you a winning season. It can get you into the playoffs. But unless your defense is as good as the Ravens of 2000, that philosophy will almost never result in a Super Bowl win. The deeper into the playoffs you get the better your opponents are likely to be. Your defense will maybe allow more points than you're used to. Your running game may be shut down. You'll be forced to rely on your passing game. At that point you're going to want your QB to be a reasonably good pocket passer. He doesn't necessarily have to be Joe Montana good. But you at least want him to be as good as Phil Simms or Jeff Hostetler.

[Mahdi]

Although he's missing legitimate starting caliber WRs, and TEs who are actually healthy, not to mention McCoy at RB, Taylor is not making a great case for himself as a franchise guy with his lack of accuracy.

Just too many inaccurate throws on some fairly simple routes.