That was pathetic. The Bills got screwed

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm not one for blaming the refs. Yes the Bills gave up 31 pts (28 in the first half). But this game was decided by the refs. Seattle is the biggest bunch of crybabies I have ever seen on a football field.

The league had better hand out some disciplinary action to every official involved last night. They literally robbed the Bills of a FG before the half, twice, which changed the entire outcome of the game. I'm not even going to mention the illegal contact in the endzone on the last drive.

This league is a complete and utter joke. It's so one-sided that it isn't funny. Sherman is a thug. He should get a penalty called on him about 75% of the time he's covering someone.

I hate the NFL and might not watch another minute this year. I haven't been this mad after a loss in a long time, and I'm not even mad at the Bills.

[Jan Reimers]

I stopped watching after the officiating fiasco at the end of the half. The Bills are hard enough to endure under the best of circumstances, but when absolute mindless and clueless officials throw them under the bus, it's time to turn my attention - and passion - to something else. I'm tired of the Bills, but even more sick of the NFL and its stinking officiating, thug players, and general bull*****.

[Pinkerton Security]

Simply unfathomable that they don't throw a personal foul call on a guy who makes no attempt to actually block the ball and goes straight for the kicker's knee (ON A DEAD BALL PLAY).

[ICRockets]

Simply unfathomable that they don't throw a personal foul call on a guy who makes no attempt to actually block the ball and goes straight for the kicker's knee (ON A DEAD BALL PLAY).

It wasn't even a dead ball play. They called offsides, not encroachment. Therefore, by the letter of the law, the play actually counts. Thus, that is objectively the most obvious roughing the kicker in the literal history of the world.

[Pinkerton Security]

It wasn't even a dead ball play. They called offsides, not encroachment. Therefore, by the letter of the law, the play actually counts. Thus, that is objectively the most obvious roughing the kicker in the literal history of the world.

Yea dead-ball play probably isnt the right phrasing. Totally the definition of roughing the kicker.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It wasn't even a dead ball play. They called offsides, not encroachment. Therefore, by the letter of the law, the play actually counts. Thus, that is objectively the most obvious roughing the kicker in the literal history of the world.

Offsides can be a dead ball foul, too. They said Sherman was unabated to the kicker and therefore it was a dead ball. At least that's how I remember it.

I'm not saying it was right, but that was their logic. In my mind, that was easily a 15 yard penalty.

[Forward_Lateral]

I stopped watching after the officiating fiasco at the end of the half. The Bills are hard enough to endure under the best of circumstances, but when absolute mindless and clueless officials throw them under the bus, it's time to turn my attention - and passion - to something else. I'm tired of the Bills, but even more sick of the NFL and its stinking officiating, thug players, and general bull*****.
It's a complete train wreck of a product. Sherman taunting the sidelines after his INT. There's no respect anymore. Yes Rex Ryan is a big mouth, but he's a head coach. You don't stand there and stare him down like a thug. This isn't some playground game in the hood.

I'm tired of it. Every week games are decided by bull crap officiating, and stupid rules. Certain players get calls, certain ones don't. You can't sneeze at Tom Brady without getting a roughing the passer penalty, yet Cam Newton hasn't had one called against him in 2 years. 2 years. How is that even possible.

[Historian]

I thought it was funny how Gruden was simply beside himself after that debacle that ended the first half.

Then magically, as the second half started, all he said was the Bills are going to have to handle a little adversity to get back into it.

Clearly, someone told him to tone down his remarks during halftime.

I'm through with all of this ****, and again, it has nothing to do with the Bills. I actually think they're a pretty good team.

I'm not renewing next year, and when they call, I'm going to tell them why.

[feldspar]

There is no debate.

That SHOULD have been called unnecessary roughness, because that is what it in fact was. No question. Dean Blandino, NFL senior vice president of officiating, came out and admitted that after the game. The league does not confess to botching calls like that unless everyone knows already. I mean, it's just obvious. It should have been a 38-yard field goal attempt after the blatant, obvious call that should have been made.

So there is that...Carpeter had to then sit out a BS play where the Bills were forced to spike the ball because Sherman went for his legs and dinged him up. THEN...

What may have been worse than all that was that Dan Carpenter MADE the 48-yard fieldgoal, but there was a flag on the play for delay of game which negated the 3 points. WHY WAS THERE A DELAY OF GAME PENALTY? Because the ****ing refs did not set the ball down in time. They failed to reset the play-clock like they should have. The refs did not get out the way in time for us to try the kick!!!! Again, Blandino has admitted this...the play-clock should have been reset by rule. But we did not need him to admit this, because we have eyes.

Look at what's happening with 4 seconds left on the play-clock. It speaks for itself:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwtZC9ZWEAEAkkM.jpg

So the refs **** up badly a second time on the same play, this time actually taking away 3 points from the Bills and penalizing them 5 yards on top of that for what was the refs own incompetent mistake. Makes me angry.

So then, of course we miss the 53-yard fieldgoal. That alone could easily have cost us the game.

Walt Coleman..."the half isn't over...the half isn't over". **** you, Walt Colman

[sahlensguy]

So at the end of a big game, you only would get 5 yards to rush offsides and take out the kicker who is trying to kick a game winning field goal? Awesome. Good to know.

[feldspar]

Walt Coleman..."the half isn't over...the half isn't over". **** you, Walt Colman

***sorry, I meant Walt Anderson, the ref.

I get my Walts and Landrys mixed up when I get pissed, apparently.

But, on second thought, Walt Coleman could **** off too while we're at it.

[DynaPaul]

I hate the NFL and might not watch another minute this year. I haven't been this mad after a loss in a long time, and I'm not even mad at the Bills.

Totally read my mind on this brother because that's exactly how I felt last night. It just seemed like this game was some kind of a turning point for me about the whole NFL and how much investment I feel in it now. Honestly, the only feeling is apathy. Mark Cuban was right about them.

[Mr. Pink]

The refs egregiously blew resetting the play clock.

Which directly lead to taking points off the board, which in turn changed the outcome of the game.

The Bills still could have overcome it but the refs definitely played a hand in deciding the outcome of the game.

[sahlensguy]

Totally read my mind on this brother because that's exactly how I felt last night. It just seemed like this game was some kind of a turning point for me about the whole NFL and how much investment I feel in it now. Honestly, the only feeling is apathy. Mark Cuban was right about them.

What did Cuban say?

[Forward_Lateral]

What did Cuban say?
That the NFL is going to greed itself into extinction, basically.

[feldspar]

First of all, the NFL needs to employ full-time refs.

I think they can afford that.

They need to do that right away.

[justasportsfan]

Sherman taunting the sidelines after his INT. There's no respect anymore. Yes Rex Ryan is a big mouth, but he's a head coach. You don't stand there and stare him down like a thug.

If Sherman was Rex's player he would have loved what Sherman did. Let's not kid ourselves here. Besides, it looked like Rex said something to him.

[chernobylwraiths]

If Sherman was Rex's player he would have loved what Sherman did. Let's not kid ourselves here. Besides, it looked like Rex said something to him.

Rex said the told him he's too good to be an ass. I'm sure it was more colorful than that though

[justasportsfan]

Rex said the told him he's too good to be an ass. I'm sure it was more colorful than that though

If true, then Rex need to act like a coach if he wants to be respected like a coach

[trapezeus]

if these were two college teams, and I had no rooting interest, I would have been outraged that it was not called 15 yards. it is so ridiculous. we don't know what a catch is anymore, we don't know what roughing the kicker is, we have no idea what roughing the passer is. we are die hard fans and while I don't agree with all the posters here, I do think almost 100% understands their football. and we are being told that we don't know some basic aspects of the game. for me, the bills are never going to turn the corner based on their own stupidity and then partially based on this kind of ref hit jobs. This year wasn't so bad, but typically both pats games are ridiculously called. so what is the point?

[Forward_Lateral]

If true, then Rex need to act like a coach if he wants to be respected like a coach

I'm on Rex's side on this one. Sherman blatantly roughed the kicker, then laughed about it. Then he gets a gift pick, and gloats by staring down the sideline. How that's not taunting, but other petty crap that is called is, is beyond me.

Whatever happened to just doing your job, making a good play, and continuing on like it's no big deal? That's another huge factor that's ruining the NFL, imo.

[jonespostman]

Blame the refs, they were bad. But those "lock down" corners didn't help much!

[sukie]

I'm on Rex's side on this one. Sherman blatantly roughed the kicker, then laughed about it. Then he gets a gift pick, and gloats by staring down the sideline. How that's not taunting, but other petty crap that is called is, is beyond me.

Whatever happened to just doing your job, making a good play, and continuing on like it's no big deal? That's another huge factor that's ruining the NFL, imo.
Sherman touched the ball THEN Carpenter. He was offsides but there was NO whistle.

[Mouldsie]

If true, then Rex need to act like a coach if he wants to be respected like a coach
No, supposedly he gets carte blanche because he's a head coach lol

It looked to me like Rex was doing all the talking and Sherman was just staring at him. Basically you're dead on.

- - - Updated - - -


Sherman touched the ball THEN Carpenter. He was offsides but there was NO whistle.

Yeah playing the ball with no whistle would mean Sherman did his job. Refs mishandled a few things there

[Mr. Pink]

Sherman touched the ball THEN Carpenter. He was offsides but there was NO whistle.

I was unsure if he touched the ball but if he did that makes sense why no roughing was called.

I know there was no whistle until after contact was made with Carpenter.

[feldspar]

Sherman knew exactly what he was doing...and that he was offsides.

The fact that he touched the ball is completely irrelevant.

This was blatant unnecessary roughness. You have the head of officials tweeting that this was the case DURING THE GAME. That's almost unheard of, and what does THAT tell you?

[Mouldsie]

Sherman knew exactly what he was doing...and that he was offsides.

The fact that he touched the ball is completely irrelevant.

This was blatant unnecessary roughness. You have the head of officials tweeting that this was the case DURING THE GAME. That's almost unheard of, and what does THAT tell you?
Why would he give Carpenter a free kick?

It tells me the refs should have blown a whistle.

[feldspar]

Why would he give Carpenter a free kick?

It tells me the refs should have blown a whistle.

Happened real quick.

Refs ****ed up AGAIN for not blowing the whistle a second sooner?

What "free kick?" A practice kick? Great opportunity to nail a defensive player...people should jump the gun and take free shots at Brady then...

What about the delay of game call? Tell me all about that...it took 3 points off the board regardless of anything else, and this is the whole point. Argue this or that, but the refs took 3 points off the board because of their incompetence. This is indisputable.

The ref did not get out off the way in time until the play-clock had already expired...then Carpenter made the kick...then the points were taken off the board 100% because of the refs. They didn't reset the play-clock.

Blah, blah, blah.

I can't believe that I have to actually argue this with a Bills fan.

The refs cost us 3 points, which totally changed the game. Period. End of story.

[Victor7]

The roughing the kicker was an obvious miss by the refs but not really bad in terms of affecting the game. All that would've done is make the FG shorter. Carpenter nailed the long one anyway. It was the delay of game penalty that was the enormous mistake. I actually saw the play clock at zero well before we snapped the ball and though nothing of it. I thought they would sort it out and agree the play clock hadn't reset. Fg is good ! .... But nooooo, not in Walt Anderson's world of stupidity.


Ditto for the 4th down play. Sherman basically decleats Powell with the ball a solid 30 yards away on the other side of the field. Another obvious unnecessary roughness call that happened riiiight in a refs face. No call.

Woods gets a taunting call for pointing the football in the direction of a guys face but Sherman can stare down our bench with no flag thrown.

Complete bull**** game from one of the game's worst refs. I've been naming Walt Anderson on my **** list of refs for a solid 5-6 years. Its inexplicable to me how he still has that job.

[Mouldsie]

Happened real quick.

Refs ****ed up AGAIN for not blowing the whistle a second sooner?

What "free kick?" A practice kick? Great opportunity to nail a defensive player...people should jump the gun and take free shots at Brady then...

What about the delay of game call? Tell me all about that...it took 3 points off the board regardless of anything else, and this is the whole point. Argue this or that, but the refs took 3 points off the board because of their incompetence. This is indisputable.

The ref did not get out off the way in time until the play-clock had already expired...then Carpenter made the kick...then the points were taken off the board 100% because of the refs. They didn't reset the play-clock.

Blah, blah, blah.

I can't believe that I have to actually argue this with a Bills fan.

The refs cost us 3 points, which totally changed the game. Period. End of story.

I'm not arguing that last sentence. I am trying to be a voice of reason because boys who cry wolf don't get heard.

[Figster]

The roughing the kicker was an obvious miss by the refs but not really bad in terms of affecting the game. All that would've done is make the FG shorter. Carpenter nailed the long one anyway. It was the delay of game penalty that was the enormous mistake. I actually saw the play clock at zero well before we snapped the ball and though nothing of it. I thought they would sort it out and agree the play clock hadn't reset. Fg is good ! .... But nooooo, not in Walt Anderson's world of stupidity.


Ditto for the 4th down play. Sherman basically decleats Powell with the ball a solid 30 yards away on the other side of the field. Another obvious unnecessary roughness call that happened riiiight in a refs face. No call.

Woods gets a taunting call for pointing the football in the direction of a guys face but Sherman can stare down our bench with no flag thrown.

Complete bull**** game from one of the game's worst refs. I've been naming Walt Anderson on my **** list of refs for a solid 5-6 years. Its inexplicable to me how he still has that job.

The Buffalo Bills was mentioned more then once on election night (MSNBC) with the stigma of rooting for a lost cause yet our football team gets cheated by the very forces that govern it.:bs:

I find it a bit ironic the lost cause candidate reffered to in the comparison almost became the Bills owner and is now president elect.

[pmoon6]

I thought it was funny how Gruden was simply beside himself after that debacle that ended the first half.

Then magically, as the second half started, all he said was the Bills are going to have to handle a little adversity to get back into it.

Clearly, someone told him to tone down his remarks during halftime.

I'm through with all of this ****, and again, it has nothing to do with the Bills. I actually think they're a pretty good team.

I'm not renewing next year, and when they call, I'm going to tell them why.All the commentators are in the bag. They are told by the NFL to "protect the product". Phil Simms used to be highly critical of the officials, so was Esaison. Not anymore. The only people I've heard this tear even remotely critical is Dan Fouts and Daryl Johnston. The rest don't even comment.

[pmoon6]

Sherman knew exactly what he was doing...and that he was offsides.

The fact that he touched the ball is completely irrelevant.

This was blatant unnecessary roughness. You have the head of officials tweeting that this was the case DURING THE GAME. That's almost unheard of, and what does THAT tell you?Yeah, The NFL really cares about player safety, dontcha know. Unless you consider kickers are not real players.

At the end of the day, the NFL is going down the path towards irrelevancy and they are the reason for their own demise. Marquee players are protected while others are not.

Guys like Sherman and he is not the only one should be ejected for gross personal fouls. They don't care, they make so much money, they'll take the fine with a smile.

[feldspar]

I am trying to be a voice of reason because boys who cry wolf don't get heard.

What's that even supposed to mean?

There is no debate about these two things:

1) what Sherman did WAS unnecessary roughness by rule. Should have been a 38-yard field goal attempt.

2) after the first botched call by the officials, there should NOT have been a delay of game penalty that took three points off the board...because, you know, it was the refs that delayed the game and then turned around and penalized the Bills for what they themselves did.

These are FACTS. Again, not open to debate.

The only thing open to debate is whether or not you think was Sherman did was dirty. That's the only thing open for debate. Is that what you are talking about?

He did what he did with eyes wide open. What he did basically directly resulted in the refs delaying the game too, because of the confusion that ensued with swapping out the regular game-ball on the BS play where we had to spike the ball with the kicking-ball after Carpenter was allowed back in, and whatever else.

If you don't think that what Sherman did wasn't dirty, that's fine...but I would disagree.

[feldspar]

All the commentators are in the bag. They are told by the NFL to "protect the product". Phil Simms used to be highly critical of the officials, so was Esaison. Not anymore. The only people I've heard this tear even remotely critical is Dan Fouts and Daryl Johnston. The rest don't even comment.

I would add Jon Gruden to that short list. He tells the truth about horrible calls habitually, and he did so this Monday night as well. One of then reason why I take credence in what he says.

Esiason still tells it like it is, but he's no longer a commentator. But he doesn't pull punches when you see him.

Simms is just a giant douche.

I kinda like the Collinsworth/Michaels team as well, though. They're well-informed and pretty sharp together. They may gloss over iffy calls sometimes, but they don't let the blatant ones go too often.

[Figster]

What's that even supposed to mean?

There is no debate about these two things:

1) what Sherman did WAS unnecessary roughness by rule. Should have been a 38-yard field goal attempt.

2) after the first botched call by the officials, there should NOT have been a delay of game penalty that took three points off the board...because, you know, it was the refs that delayed the game and then turned around and penalized the Bills for what they themselves did.

These are FACTS. Again, not open to debate.

The only thing open to debate is whether or not you think was Sherman did was dirty. That's the only thing open for debate. Is that what you are talking about?

He did what he did with eyes wide open. What he did basically directly resulted in the refs delaying the game too, because of the confusion that ensued with swapping out the regular game-ball on the BS play where we had to spike the ball with the kicking-ball after Carpenter was allowed back in, and whatever else.

If you don't think that what Sherman did wasn't dirty, that's fine...but I would disagree.
As would I,
Our season and playoffs chances have all but been eliminated by dirty players/ plays.

Would our secondary be struggling this bad with A Williams on the field, I think not.

[sukie]

I was unsure if he touched the ball but if he did that makes sense why no roughing was called.

I know there was no whistle until after contact was made with Carpenter.

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7430055/Screen_Shot_2016_11_08_at_7.26.39_AM.png


Sherman touched it.

[Figster]

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7430055/Screen_Shot_2016_11_08_at_7.26.39_AM.png

hmmmm, I may have to change my stance on this...
Sherman touched it.

[feldspar]

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7430055/Screen_Shot_2016_11_08_at_7.26.39_AM.png


Sherman touched it.

So what?

[Figster]

So what?
Its not a penalty for starters

[Victor7]

As would I,
Our season and playoffs chances have all but been eliminated by dirty players/ plays.

Would our secondary be struggling this bad with A Williams on the field, I think not.

Not at all. Been saying it since he got hurt and calling out the posters that think he's average or less. AW is the leader back there and his absence has been absolutely felt. Blanton and Meeks can't hold his jock. For ****s sake Blanton couldn't stop Graham even grabbing his arm on of the td throws.

[feldspar]

Its not a penalty for starters

Yes it is.

Explain why you think it isn't.

You can jump WAY offsides and nail the defenseless key player as long as you touch the ball in the process?

What?

[Figster]

Yes it is.

Explain why you think it isn't.
If you get to the football contact with the kicker is permited.

[sukie]

Yes it is.

Explain why you think it isn't.

You can jump WAY offsides and nail the defenseless key player as long as you touch the ball?

Play wasn't whistled dead on the offsides. He touched the ball THEN followed into Carpenter. The ball was live at that time.

[Figster]

Play wasn't whistled dead on the offsides. He touched the ball THEN followed into Carpenter. The ball was live at that time.

Within the rules, but it might be something the league needs to take a better look at because its a loop hole that could cause injury to an unprepared/protected player.

[feldspar]

Play wasn't whistled dead on the offsides. He touched the ball THEN followed into Carpenter. The ball was live at that time.

Did the head of officiating say that?

No need this answer that. We all know what he said.

Was it a penalty? Yes, no doubt.

From now on, we should jump way offsides and nail any of the better QBs we face...that should only take a second. Could easily beat the whistle half the time at least, I'd say. Take them out of the game, and then take the 5-yard penalty...

This was an unnecessary roughness call. That is not disputed by any authority of any kind. There is no debate about it.

You haven't a ****ing clue what your talking about.

[sukie]

The relevant section of the rulebook on that:
No defensive player may run into or rough a kicker who kicks from behind the line unless such contact:
is incidental to and occurs after the defender has touched the kick in flight




he touched the ball pre kick actually making it a fumble which again makes it live.

[feldspar]

Within the rules, but it might be something the league needs to take a better look at because its a loop hole that could cause injury to an unprepared/protected player.

Show me the rule that says that you can jump way offsides and then hit someone as long as you touch the ball first, and then the only thing to be called is an offsides penalty.

Show it to me...

I'll be right here.

Waiting patiently...forever...

The play took a second, and you expect a whistle during that time? The play took a second, but I've got forever for you to show me this rule you speak of.

[Mr. Pink]

The refs blew it by not blowing the play dead until after Sherman contacted Carpenter.

As far as he knew it was a live play.

I'm not sure if he touched the ball or not, but if he did, then that is why he wasn't flagged for roughing the kicker.

Where the refs screwed them was the next play where the playclock was running while the ref was still near the LOS.

It did take 3 points off the board and then changed how the Bills had to play the final drive.

[sukie]

Show me the rule that says that you can jump way offsides and then hit someone as long as you touch the ball first, and then the only thing to be called is an offsides penalty.

Show it to me...

I'll be right here.

Waiting patiently...forever...

The play took a second, and you expect a whistle during that time? The play took a second, but I've got forever for you to show me this rule you speak of.

NOT blowing it dead on the offsides was the error. THAT error made it NOT roughing. unabated to the QB calls are blown dead almost instantly.

[feldspar]

The refs blew it by not blowing the play dead until after Sherman contacted Carpenter.

As far as he knew it was a live play.

I'm not sure if he touched the ball or not, but if he did, then that is why he wasn't flagged for roughing the kicker.

Where the refs screwed them was the next play where the playclock was running while the ref was still near the LOS.

It did take 3 points off the board and then changed how the Bills had to play the final drive.

Sherman knew he was offsides. He just didn't want Carpenter to get off his practice kick, and therefore ran into him.

Whether he touched the ball or not is irrelevant, and has no basis on the botched call. You can't just take a mad dash at someone and hit him as long as you touch the ball first. There are rules. And without rules there would be no game.

I can't believe I have to say these things here...

[sukie]

play was live... had it not been live then I would agree

[feldspar]

NOT blowing it dead on the offsides was the error. THAT error made it NOT roughing. unabated to the QB calls are blown dead almost instantly.

Show me the rule or shut your mouth.

Apparently every single expert disagrees with you, so how is it that they are wrong. Even the people that most wouldn't want to admit it have admitted it. Again, the head of officiating fessed up DURING the game, which is almost unheard of.

This series of events have been talked about on every major sports show throughout the nation, and everyone takes it as a given than this WAS an unnecessary roughness play. Every single outlet...why is that if there is a simple rule to justify what Sherman did.

If there is a rule, then show it to me. It shouldn't take you that long to find it if it exists considering this is basically the top sports story of the past couple of days, right?

The offsides happened in a second. Sherman damn well knew he was offsides too.

[Mr. Pink]

Sherman thought it was a live play, as there was no whistle until after he contacted Carpenter.

I can't blame Sherman for playing til the whistle because that is what every football player is taught.

Now, if you want to blame the refs for not blowing the play dead as Sherman had a free line to the kicker, I won't disagree with that as it should have been blown dead as he was flying around the tackle.

[Figster]

Did the head of officiating say that?

No need this answer that. We all know what he said.

From now on, we should jump way offsides and nail any of the better QBs we face...that should only take a second. Could easily beat the whistle half the time, I'd say.

This was an unnecessary roughness call. That is not disputed by any authority of any kind. There is no debate about it.
I honestly think Sherman knew how to manipulate the rules and tried to injure our kicker.

[feldspar]

Sherman thought it was a live play, as there was no whistle until after he contacted Carpenter.

I can't blame Sherman for playing til the whistle because that is what every football player is taught.

Now, if you want to blame the refs for not blowing the play dead as Sherman had a free line to the kicker, I won't disagree with that as it should have been blown dead as he was flying around the tackle.

I don't care who you chose to blame for what, but this was an unnecessary roughness call BY RULE...that is the only thing that matters.

[sukie]

if the holder had fumbled the snap and a defender ran into both him and the kicker trying to recover the ball it would not be considered "roughing"?

If anything. Sherman touching the ball and probably the holder would have the holder down by contact... but he was offsides so the down by contact would have been overturned

[Figster]

I don't care who you chose to blame for what, but this was an unnecessary roughness call BY RULE...that is the only thing that matters.

I understand your passion/frustration on this subject , but Sherman was within the rules on the hit. ( with all due respect)

Was it dirty? yes

[bleve]

The roughing the kicker/personal foul calls are judgement calls. It happens to every team, and message boards across the land are discussing these calls/non-calls every week. And yes, games unfortunately are effected by bad judgement calls all the time. It's the nature of the game.

The real issue - as Victor pointed out was not resetting the play clock and calling/enforcing the delay of game penalty. That was not a judgement call. That was just negligence. As long as Anderson has been a ref, it is unacceptable this could happen.

[feldspar]

I understand your passion/frustration on this subject , but Sherman was within the rules on the hit. ( with all due respect)

Was it dirty? yes

I cannot believe my ears here...or my eyes, or whatever.

You are saying to me that you understand the rules better than the head of officiating? Or are you calling him a liar? Why would he and everyone else be lying about this?

Show me one single reputable source that agrees with what you are saying...JUST ONE. there must be one if you are right...right?

[trapezeus]

this is why the tv ratings are down. you don't know what a catch is, you don't knokw what roughing the passer is, you don't know what roughing the kicker is. its some legal battle of bizarre rules. if this was done to brady, people are kicked out. if its done to newton, questionable. and if it happens to tt, no call. it looks like roughing the kicker. you ask someone who doesn't watch football and tell them that there is a rule called rouoghing the kicker, they'll say that looks like roughing the kicker. this touching the ball nonsense on unimpeded to the kicker to negate a 15 yard penalty is stupid. a NT should routinely jump offsides while touching the ball and body slam a QB over center. I'd take that 5 yard penalty over and over again until a top notch qb is hurt. and what the league needs is more good QBs, not people gaming the rules to take out qbs.

[feldspar]

this is why the tv ratings are down. you don't know what a catch is, you don't knokw what roughing the passer is, you don't know what roughing the kicker is. its some legal battle of bizarre rules. if this was done to brady, people are kicked out. if its done to newton, questionable. and if it happens to tt, no call. it looks like roughing the kicker. you ask someone who doesn't watch football and tell them that there is a rule called rouoghing the kicker, they'll say that looks like roughing the kicker. this touching the ball nonsense on unimpeded to the kicker to negate a 15 yard penalty is stupid. a NT should routinely jump offsides while touching the ball and body slam a QB over center. I'd take that 5 yard penalty over and over again until a top notch qb is hurt. and what the league needs is more good QBs, not people gaming the rules to take out qbs.

You know what this is...

You simply cannot be grossly offsides and take a running shot at someone in the blink of an eye, whether you touch the ball first or otherwise...still not sure why some people think that makes a difference...this IS unnecessary roughness with no doubt. Intensional does not factor in.

Football 101.

There is no controversy, and there shouldn't be any of this jerkoff debate.

If the rules are that you can be grossly offsides and then nail somebody as long as the ball is touched first, then this should be a part of every team's game-plan. Take those ****ers OUT. Every time. Why not? I guarantee you there will a plethora of people lined up to get paid to do that.

[Figster]

I cannot believe my ears here...or my eyes, or whatever.

You are saying to me that you understand the rules better than the head of officiating? Or are you calling him a liar? Why would he and everyone else be lying about this?

Show me one single reputable source that agrees with what you are saying...JUST ONE. there must be one if you are right...right?

i'm sure you have seen plenty of kickers plowed into on a blocked kick and the ball was still live so i'm not sure what you are expecting me to say.

I agree with you, it should be a roughing the kicker penalty that needs to be addressed by the league , but from a ruling standpoint.

[Joe Fo Sho]

i'm sure you have seen plenty of kickers plowed into on a blocked kick and the ball was still live so i'm not sure what you are expecting me to say.
I agree with you, it should be a roughing the kicker penalty that needs to be addressed by the league , but from a ruling standpoint.
From watching the replay, I don't think Sherman technically blocked the kick. He took his hand off of the ball before it was kicked and the ball never touched him after it was kicked. If anything, like Sukie said, the place holder was down when Sherman touched the football. I've never seen that happen, but I have to assume that's how it works, as it would during any other situation.

Even in that case, Sherman was not doing anything against the rules.

Kickers aren't untouchable, they're just usually untouchable.

[feldspar]

I agree with you, it should be a roughing the kicker penalty that needs to be addressed by the league , but from a ruling standpoint.

Man, the league has already addressed it.

They say that it was unnecessary roughness BY RULE. What don't you get about that?

[Figster]

From watching the replay, I don't think Sherman technically blocked the kick. He took his hand off of the ball before it was kicked and the ball never touched him after it was kicked. If anything, like Sukie said, the place holder was down when Sherman touched the football. I've never seen that happen, but I have to assume that's how it works, as it would during any other situation.

Even in that case, Sherman was not doing anything against the rules.
I can agree with that,
Kickers aren't untouchable, they're just usually untouchable.

[Figster]

Man, the league has already addressed it.

They say that it was unnecessary roughness BY RULE. What don't you get about that?

Show me where the league has officially addressed this issue.

[feldspar]

Show me where the league has officially addressed this issue.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/07/blandino-tweets-that-sherman-should-have-been-flagged-for-unnecessary-roughness/

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000735853/article/dean-blandino-refs-made-mistakes-in-seahawks-win

[pmoon6]

I would add Jon Gruden to that short list. He tells the truth about horrible calls habitually, and he did so this Monday night as well. One of then reason why I take credence in what he says.

Esiason still tells it like it is, but he's no longer a commentator. But he doesn't pull punches when you see him.

Simms is just a giant douche.

I kinda like the Collinsworth/Michaels team as well, though. They're well-informed and pretty sharp together. They may gloss over iffy calls sometimes, but they don't let the blatant ones go too often.Thanks, I don't watch MNF or any night games unless Buffalo is on. I didn't get to see the Seattle game, something important came up.

[Victor7]

I don't know why you guys are making such a big deal out of the non call on Carpenter. If it gets called its 15 yards and we kick a gimme 34 yard fg.

So ?

Carpenter nailed the 48 yarder after the whole fiasco. Its the delay of game bull**** that really ****ed us. Not the hit on Carp.

[feldspar]

I don't know why you guys are making such a big deal out of the non call on Carpenter. If it gets called its 15 yards and we kick a gimme 34 yard fg.

So ?

Carpenter nailed the 48 yarder after the whole fiasco. Its the delay of game bull**** that really ****ed us. Not the hit on Carp.

The only reason I'm talking about the Sherman penalty is because people seem to be misinformed about it, and the rule he broke. That was unnecessary roughness...don't know how many times I have to say it. Some people want to deny what clearly happened for some reason, even though Dean Blandino himself actually tweeted DURING THE GAME that it was an unnecessary roughness personal foul. Next thing you know, these same humps might claim to know more about the theory of relativity than Einstein.

It's just a fact, and it should have been a 38-yard field-goal attempt with Carpenter not having to leave the field.

I agree that the delay-of-game no-call was worse, but that was still a direct result of what Sherman did. One followed the other. Sherman doesn't do that, and the refs would never have delayed the game and then blame it on us. They couldn't get the kicking-ball out there in time...they use different balls on kicking plays than they do on regular offensive plays. And, of course, they didn't reset the game-clock after they took too long.

These plays aren't "controversial," because it's absolutely clear what happened. There is no debate, only a reason to complain about the incompetence of the officials. They totally ****ed up what what otherwise a great game.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The only reason I'm talking about the Sherman penalty is because people seem to be misinformed about it, and the rule he broke. That was unnecessary roughness...don't know how many times I have to say it. Some people want to deny what clearly happened for some reason, even though Dean Blandino himself actually tweeted DURING THE GAME that it was an unnecessary roughness personal foul. Next thing you know, these same humps might claim to know more about the theory of relativity than Einstein.
It's just a fact, and it should have been a 38-yard field-goal attempt with Carpenter not having to leave the field.
I agree that the delay-of-game no-call was worse, but that was still a direct result of what Sherman did. One followed the other. Sherman doesn't do that, and the refs would never have delayed the game and then blame it on us. They couldn't get the kicking-ball out there in time...they use different balls on kicking plays than they do on regular offensive plays. And, of course, they didn't reset the game-clock after they took too long.
These plays aren't "controversial," because it's absolutely clear what happened. There is no debate, only a reason to complain about the incompetence of the officials. They totally ****ed up what what otherwise a great game.
Do you think the place holder should be ruled down at this point in the play?

http://l2.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/KlwXSr1dMMxrzDBz8ySQtw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/f1c284c043aa355e3ef7e359557599d0

[The Jokeman]

Do you think the place holder should be ruled down at this point in the play?

http://l2.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/KlwXSr1dMMxrzDBz8ySQtw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjtzbT0xO3c9ODAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en/homerun/feed_manager_auto_publish_494/f1c284c043aa355e3ef7e359557599d0
Once the whistles blew and Sherman was off sides the play was dead. Yet Sherman continued to run toward the kicker. Touching the ball and lowering his shoulder like he is in that photo while Carpenter is in motion to kick the ball is why it should have been flagged as unnecessary roughness.

[Mr. Pink]

Once the whistles blew and Sherman was off sides the play was dead. Yet Sherman continued to run toward the kicker. Touching the ball and lowering his shoulder like he is in that photo while Carpenter is in motion to kick the ball is why it should have been flagged as unnecessary roughness.

Except the whistle wasn't blown until after Sherman contacted Carpenter.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2aKz0N11qVE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Joe Fo Sho]

Except the whistle wasn't blown until after Sherman contacted Carpenter.
I've done a complete 180 on this play. After looking at everything that happened, I'm completely fine with what Sherman did. The delay of game is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while, though. I think everybody agrees with that.

[Mr. Pink]

I've done a complete 180 on this play. After looking at everything that happened, I'm completely fine with what Sherman did. The delay of game is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while, though. I think everybody agrees with that.

I completely agree that the refs completely screwed the Bills over on that delay of game.

And Rex having the team spike the ball was a brilliant decision, one of his better coaching moves since he's been here. It was a quick thinking maneuver to preserve getting 3 points that the refs ultimately flubbed away.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I completely agree that the refs completely screwed the Bills over on that delay of game.
And Rex having the team spike the ball was a brilliant decision, one of his better coaching moves since he's been here. It was a quick thinking maneuver to preserve getting 3 points that the refs ultimately flubbed away.
Yeah, I was almost shocked that he came up with that decision while simultaneously screaming obscenities at the refs.

[cookie G]

I don't know why you guys are making such a big deal out of the non call on Carpenter. If it gets called its 15 yards and we kick a gimme 34 yard fg.

So ?

Carpenter nailed the 48 yarder after the whole fiasco. Its the delay of game bull**** that really ****ed us. Not the hit on Carp.

Nah...to me the lack of a personal foul call was bigger to me.

Because I agree with Charlie Casserly...that's not how you block a kick.

He jumped offsides, had an opportunity to take a cheap shot..and took it.

This "playing to the whistle" stuff is just a lame excuse.

tbh...I was a little disappointed in the Bills' players after it happened. I can understand Incognito for not getting involved...since the ice under his immense weight is barely enough to hold him up above the NFL waters...but the other guys on the field.

They could have taken a lesson from Lambert.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fZalcX_8ZpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

One thing I miss about the old days..they took care of these things on the field.

[DraftBoy]

Nah...to me the lack of a personal foul call was bigger to me.

Because I agree with Charlie Casserly...that's not how you block a kick.

He jumped offsides, had an opportunity to take a cheap shot..and took it.

This "playing to the whistle" stuff is just a lame excuse.

tbh...I was a little disappointed in the Bills' players after it happened. I can understand Incognito for not getting involved...since the ice under his immense weight is barely enough to hold him up above the NFL waters...but the other guys on the field.

They could have taken a lesson from Lambert.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fZalcX_8ZpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

One thing I miss about the old days..they took care of these things on the field.

That's a good point, I would of had zero issues if Ryan/Lynn called a toss play or screen pass to Sherman's side and they pulled Incognito to light his ass up on a clean block.

[Victor7]

Nah...to me the lack of a personal foul call was bigger to me.

Because I agree with Charlie Casserly...that's not how you block a kick.

He jumped offsides, had an opportunity to take a cheap shot..and took it.

This "playing to the whistle" stuff is just a lame excuse.

tbh...I was a little disappointed in the Bills' players after it happened. I can understand Incognito for not getting involved...since the ice under his immense weight is barely enough to hold him up above the NFL waters...but the other guys on the field.

They could have taken a lesson from Lambert.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fZalcX_8ZpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

One thing I miss about the old days..they took care of these things on the field.

Just to be clear. I do agree they missed the unnecessary roughness call. It was obvious.

But it has zero relevance on the game. Why would it be more important ?? It doesn't take points of the board or affects the outcome. The delay of game does. It was huge.

[chernobylwraiths]

Nah...to me the lack of a personal foul call was bigger to me.

Because I agree with Charlie Casserly...that's not how you block a kick.

He jumped offsides, had an opportunity to take a cheap shot..and took it.

This "playing to the whistle" stuff is just a lame excuse.

tbh...I was a little disappointed in the Bills' players after it happened. I can understand Incognito for not getting involved...since the ice under his immense weight is barely enough to hold him up above the NFL waters...but the other guys on the field.

They could have taken a lesson from Lambert.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fZalcX_8ZpE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

One thing I miss about the old days..they took care of these things on the field.

Hated Lambert, probably would have loved him on my team though. Loved what he did to Harris though.

I also wonder why a Bills player didn't go after Sherman. Then again, that would definitely be a 15 yard penalty on us.

What's really weird is that while going after the ball, he grazes it without knocking the ball out of the holders hand but then turns his body right into the kickers leg. Going after the ball and playing to the whistle my ass. That looked like a deliberate cheap shot to me.

[Mike]

I don't ever complain about the refs
But these blowhards needs to go.

Worst I have seen in a long time
The Non Call on last play cost Bills the game