Tyrod rant

[X-Era]

How is anyone questioning whether to let Tyrod walk or not?



Do we really want to go back to starting bad QB's with the dollar and a dream plan to draft a stud?
Do we really want to pay for Tony Romo? Who lost his job to a rookie, will ask for more money that Tyrod next year, and who has never won a SB?
Do we really think Tyrod is the problem when we're a run heavy offense in a passing league, Our #1 WR has basically been out all year, we really dont have a true #2 WR on the roster, Robert Woods isn't being played where he should be (in the slot), and we've been forced to start walk-on's and #4, 5, even 6 WR's on the depth chart?
Do we really want a pocket passer with our OL? We don't have the OL of Dal or Oak


And consider this:



Tyrod currently has the 25th highest cap hit at the QB position
Next years cap hit if we pick up the option will be 20th in the league... 20th
The team, with Tyrods contract, is set to be 32 mill under in 2017 as per Spotrac at this point


For the cost to us vs. going rate, Tyrods upside, his abilities as a runner, and his deep ball this isn't a tough choice. Keep him.

And if Whaley stays (likely) and Rex stays (not as likley) he will be kept. If we have a new HC all bets are off and he could be gone. But personally, I'd rather just keep him and improve the OL and weapons. He's not our problem.

[ICRockets]

Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end. Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.

[X-Era]

Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end. Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.It's like we've been walking through the desert searching for water and are *****ing because we found a muddy puddle.

[ICRockets]

It's like we've been walking through the desert searching for water and are *****ing because we found a muddy puddle.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to X-Era again.

[TacklingDummy]

How is anyone questioning whether to let Tyrod walk or not? Have you watched the games the past 2 years?




Do we really want to go back to starting bad QB's with the dollar and a dream plan[/B] to draft a stud? You mean like what they are doing now? Draft the stud. Like Dallas did, GB, Oakland, Atlanta, SD, NJG, NE, IC, TB, CP, SS, etc...


Do we really want to pay for Tony Romo? Who lost his job to a rookie, will ask for more money that Tyrod next year, and who has never won a SB? He lost his job to a rookie who is playing great (unlike our 6th year player)who also has his team at 10-2. If Romo stays healthy he has 2-3 years left in him.




Do we really think Tyrod is the problem when we're a run heavy offense in a passing league, Our #1 WR has basically been out all year, we really dont have a true #2 WR on the roster, Robert Woods isn't being played where he should be (in the slot), and we've been forced to start walk-on's and #4, 5, even 6 WR's on the depth chart?

Think about that. An outstanding running game, WRs open all over the place and yet we struggle in passing. As a matter of fact the Bills are last in passing in a passing league having one of the best running games in the league. Why is that?



Do we really want a pocket passer with our OL? We don't have the OL of Dal or Oak
[/LIST] When watching the games how many times have you yelled "Throw the ball" at the TV screen when Tyrod is dancing there in the pocket? The line has overall done an outstanding job pass/run blocking this year.

And consider this:



[LIST]
Tyrod currently has the 25th highest cap hit at the QB position
So


Next years cap hit if we pick up the option will be 20th in the league... 20th

So

The team, with Tyrods contract, is set to be 32 mill under in 2017 as per Spotrac at this point


So


For the cost to us vs. going rate, Tyrods upside, his abilities as a runner, and his deep ball this isn't a tough choice. Keep him.

Sure keep him. He's the perfect QB to keep mediocrity alive. 17 years and counting.


And if Whaley stays (likely) and Rex stays (not as likley) he will be kept. If we have a new HC all bets are off and he could be gone. But personally, I'd rather just keep him and improve the OL and weapons. He's not our problem.

He is the problem.

I'd rather ditch him, EJ, and Jones.
Sign Romo.
Bring in an OC who doesn't have the Wildcat in his playbook.
Draft a QB next year and the following year then hope we landed the next franchise QB this franchise has been starving for.

[ICRockets]

I'd rather ditch him, EJ, and Jones.
Sign Romo.


Cut the 3 black guys, including the one we know nothing about.

Sign a white guy.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that your plan cuts precisely along a racial divide, though, right?

[TacklingDummy]

Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end. Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.

With the Bills next win they will reach 400 wins in its 57 year history. Tom Brady has 201 career wins.

Bills fans are the greatest fans in the history of professional sports. This franchise has been terrible for most of its NFL existence. For the short period it was good they are remembered for 4 Super Bowl losses in a row, Wide Right, Don Beebe/Leon Lett, and the Music City Miracle.

And yet WE are still fans through the mostly bad times.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end. Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.

This comment is cancer.

Just because we don't think Tyrod is the answer we don't deserve to see the Bills succeed? Yet you just said that you 'hope less and less for the (playoff) drought to end.' You can go take a s*** for yourself, pal.

[ICRockets]

Just because we don't think Tyrod is the answer we don't deserve to see the Bills succeed?
Correct. Glad you can follow along.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Correct. Glad you can follow along.


Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end.

You're a true fan.

[The Jokeman]

How is anyone questioning whether to let Tyrod walk or not?



Do we really want to go back to starting bad QB's with the dollar and a dream plan to draft a stud?
Do we really want to pay for Tony Romo? Who lost his job to a rookie, will ask for more money that Tyrod next year, and who has never won a SB?
Do we really think Tyrod is the problem when we're a run heavy offense in a passing league, Our #1 WR has basically been out all year, we really dont have a true #2 WR on the roster, Robert Woods isn't being played where he should be (in the slot), and we've been forced to start walk-on's and #4, 5, even 6 WR's on the depth chart?
Do we really want a pocket passer with our OL? We don't have the OL of Dal or Oak


And consider this:



Tyrod currently has the 25th highest cap hit at the QB position
Next years cap hit if we pick up the option will be 20th in the league... 20th
The team, with Tyrods contract, is set to be 32 mill under in 2017 as per Spotrac at this point


For the cost to us vs. going rate, Tyrods upside, his abilities as a runner, and his deep ball this isn't a tough choice. Keep him.

And if Whaley stays (likely) and Rex stays (not as likley) he will be kept. If we have a new HC all bets are off and he could be gone. But personally, I'd rather just keep him and improve the OL and weapons. He's not our problem.

I guess because we feel the Tyrod/Rex show isn't going to get us to the playoffs that's why we want to let them go sooner than later. Yet maybe I would concede to keeping Tyrod another year but still draft a QB high to compete with Cardale and Tyrod and let the best guy win. Yet the more we keep Tyrod it means the less likelihood we can keep guys like Woods or Zach Brown or even Gilmore who feel are better building blocks than Tyrod is.

[BertSquirtgum]

Yes, we want to pay Tony Romo. He is fully healed and ready to go. He didn't have to come back early this time before he was completely healed so I personally am not worried about that. This team is a Tony Romo away from challenging the Patriots for the division.

[The Jokeman]

Yes, we want to pay Tony Romo. He is fully healed and ready to go. He didn't have to come back early this time before he was completely healed so I personally am not worried about that. This team is a Tony Romo away from challenging the Patriots for the division.Just like the 2002 Bills were a Drew Bledsoe away? I don't dismiss that Romo is better QB than Tyrod but his inability to stay healthy/high cap figure are a major concern if we add him.

[BertSquirtgum]

Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end. Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.

You're a ******. Nothing worse than a ******ed Tyrod apologist that is blind to see the obvious. And to hope to Bills playoff drought continues because some people can see that Tyrod sucks makes you a big fat sweaty smelly ******. Piss off.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Cut the 3 black guys, including the one we know nothing about.

Sign a white guy.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that your plan cuts precisely along a racial divide, though, right?Your post is an idiot... It makes racist accusations out of thin air.

[BertSquirtgum]

Just like the 2002 Bills were a Drew Bledsoe away? I don't dismiss that Romo is better QB than Tyrod but his inability to stay healthy/high cap figure are a major concern if we add him.

I truly do believe what I said though. I think with Tony Romo a free agent safety and a drafted safety. The Bills could legitimately challenge the Patriots for the division next year. The 02 Bills offensive line was garbage. This offensive line is good.

[The Jokeman]

I truly do believe what I said though. I think with Tony Romo a free agent safety and a drafted safety. The Bills could legitimately challenge the Patriots for the division next year. The 02 Bills offensive line was garbage. This offensive line is good.

I question the right side of the line and I really think Tyrod's athleticism does make the line look better than it is. Honestly if Romo wouldn't count so much against the cap I'd be willing to give him a try but sheesh don't know if he would toss in Jerry Jones loves him and going ask for the king's ransom to get him in a trade.

[SpikedLemonade]

I want to win it all.

TT will NEVER get us there.

P.S.: We got dicks like Jesus...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Do we challenge for the division with 8 games of Tony Romo and 8 games of Cardale Jones? Because get realistic here, Romo has missed significant time over the last two years AND he's turning 37 in April AND he's coming from an offense with a far better OL and pass catching group.

[OpIv37]

Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end. Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.

See, i see it the opposite way.

Taylor is not seeing wide open WRs. He's holding the ball too long and not feeling the pressure. And a lot of of times when he does complete a pass, the poor ball placement causes the WR to slow down/jump/dive, putting them in dangerous positions and costing YAC. And he's not improving in any of these areas as he gains experience.

He's far from the only problem this team has right now but he's definitely one of the problems.

The fans who deserve the losing are the ones who claim they want the team to win but then defend the people responsible for the losses.

[Novacane]

X-Era change your name to 8-8forever-era!

[OpIv37]

Cut the 3 black guys, including the one we know nothing about.

Sign a white guy.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that your plan cuts precisely along a racial divide, though, right?

Seriously? I think Romo sucks but this post is completely disingenuous. You know damn well it has nothing to do with race.

Also Romo's Mexican.

[justasportsfan]

How is anyone questioning whether to let Tyrod walk or not?


Do we really want to pay for Tony Romo? Who lost his job to a rookie, will ask for more money that Tyrod next year, and who has never won a SB?

WOW! This is a post that puts the liberal media who said that Trump had no chance of winning the republican vote and the presidency to shame.

Romo lost his job due to injury. Not because he's a crappy qb.
The rookie who replaced him happens to make (pardon my rudeness) Tyrod look like Stevie Wonder playing qb.





Do we really think Tyrod is the problem when we're a run heavy offense in a passing league, Our #1 WR has basically been out all year, we really dont have a true #2 WR on the roster, Robert Woods isn't being played when you qb cant see open receivers, yes the qb is the problem.
When your QB runs out of the pocket because his first read is not open in 1 second. Yes, the qb is the problem.
When the qb insist on taking a sack instead of throwing the ball away, yes your qb is the problem.
When your qb cant read the middle of the field, yes the qb is the problem. Neither Clay or O"Leary got stupid in less than a season.




where he should be (in the slot), and we've been forced to start walk-on's and #4, 5, even 6 WR's on the depth chart?
Do we really want a pocket passer with our OL? We don't have the OL of Dal or Oak

Our OL is not as bad as you make it out to be. Even when Tyrod had plenty of time to throw, he is misfiring a lot.







his abilities as a runner,a better passer can extend a play with his arms to you know. It only opens things up for McCoy even more.




and his deep ball this isn't a tough choice. Keep him.. It's not like you cant find a player who can throw a deep ball. Have you seen Cardale's deep ball? We're not calling Fitz back are we?


And if Whaley stays (likely) and Rex stays (not as likley) he will be kept. If we have a new HC all bets are off and he could be gone. But personally, I'd rather just keep him and improve the OL and weapons. He's not our problem.

My guess is, we want have a choice but to keep Tyrod. I would rather find a better coach who can coach him up because neither Rex nor David Lee are the ones to do it. And NO,no,no, to keeping Rex. We're not going to the sb with him.

[ICRockets]

Taylor is not seeing wide open WRs. He's holding the ball too long and not feeling the pressure. And a lot of of times when he does complete a pass, the poor ball placement causes the WR to slow down/jump/dive, putting them in dangerous positions and costing YAC. And he's not improving in any of these areas as he gains experience.

What experience is he really gaining? All of those issues are coachable and trainable. The more practice he gets with healthy receivers in a steady offense, the better their timing is going to be. Because that's what it comes down to, is timing and comfort.

My issue isn't with people who disagree with me about Tyrod. It's with the gall they have to suggest that we can honestly dismiss Tyrod's future potential when we've had this many injuries to our WRs and with a coach who is as much of a joke as Rex Ryan. I don't trust the judgment of anybody who thinks they've seen enough to write off Tyrod Taylor. They haven't.

[justasportsfan]

It's like we've been walking through the desert searching for water and are *****ing because we found a muddy puddle.

There's nothing wrong with looking for a horse that can take us out of the desert because the mule we have can even see 10-20 yards out which is why we are still drinking mud.

I would even settle for a camel that can get us out of the desert and into a 5 star beach resort with the Dallas cheerleaders waiting for us in the hot tub all the tropical booze drinks we want.

[OpIv37]

What experience is he really gaining? All of those issues are coachable and trainable. The more practice he gets with healthy receivers in a steady offense, the better their timing is going to be. Because that's what it comes down to, is timing and comfort.

My issue isn't with people who disagree with me about Tyrod. It's with the gall they have to suggest that we can honestly dismiss Tyrod's future potential when we've had this many injuries to our WRs and with a coach who is as much of a joke as Rex Ryan. I don't trust the judgment of anybody who thinks they've seen enough to write off Tyrod Taylor. They haven't.

Here's the problem though: Stupid Whaley gave him that stupid contract. So, if we keep him, the contract makes it almost impossible to cut or trade him for I believe 3 years due to the salary cap ramifications. If we keep him we are basically stuck with him for the next three years. If the problem is that he doesn't have the tools around him, fine, we will get there. If what you see is what you get, it means 3 more years of hovering around .500 followed by 2 years of rebuilding before we can think about winning.

[djjimkelly]

Your post is an idiot... It makes racist accusations out of thin air.

id rather play EJ then tyrod he is lighter skinned im racist lol

[djjimkelly]

2017: $33,603,334
2018: $17,690,000 (addt'l $9.75M kicks in on the 3rd league day)
2019: $10,660,000
2020: $6,880,000
2021: $3,100,000

if the bills pay him 33 million im putting in an application for something in the bills head office because apparently they are giving away money to anyone

[ICRockets]

Here's the problem though: Stupid Whaley gave him that stupid contract. So, if we keep him, the contract makes it almost impossible to cut or trade him for I believe 3 years due to the salary cap ramifications. If we keep him we are basically stuck with him for the next three years. If the problem is that he doesn't have the tools around him, fine, we will get there. If what you see is what you get, it means 3 more years of hovering around .500 followed by 2 years of rebuilding before we can think about winning.
So what's the solution? Cut bait and spend the exact same money, if not more, on Tony Romo? Have "stupid Whaley" draft someone and hope they're good, despite the implication that a "stupid" GM is unlikely to draft the right guy?

Newsflash: There are 32 teams in the NFL. Only one of them ends the season happy. Throwing a tantrum because we think we're entitled to being that team because we're SUCH WONDERFUL FANS is a surefire way to never be that team. You know how ****ing stupid some of our fellow posters are, Op. You think they won't drive the next guy out of town just as fast as they're calling for Tyrod's head? Tyrod has the contract he has. It's certainly not the worst on the team (Hi, Jerry!). If next season rolls around, we stay healthy, and Tyrod still has the same flaws that he has this season then we can move forward and try to determine the best way out from under his deal. But right now we simply cannot confidently say that's how it's going to end, and even if it does I'm not about to give anybody who predicted it the credit they think they'll deserve. Like I said, 31 out of 32 teams end the season disappointed. Staking your reputation on the claim that we're going to be one of them should not impress anybody.

[djjimkelly]

So what's the solution? Cut bait and spend the exact same money, if not more, on Tony Romo? Have "stupid Whaley" draft someone and hope they're good, despite the implication that a "stupid" GM is unlikely to draft the right guy?

Newsflash: There are 32 teams in the NFL. Only one of them ends the season happy. Throwing a tantrum because we think we're entitled to being that team because we're SUCH WONDERFUL FANS is a surefire way to never be that team. You know how ****ing stupid some of our fellow posters are, Op. You think they won't drive the next guy out of town just as fast as they're calling for Tyrod's head? Tyrod has the contract he has. It's certainly not the worst on the team (Hi, Jerry!). If next season rolls around, we stay healthy, and Tyrod still has the same flaws that he has this season then we can move forward and try to determine the best way out from under his deal. But right now we simply cannot confidently say that's how it's going to end, and even if it does I'm not about to give anybody who predicted it the credit they think they'll deserve. Like I said, 31 out of 32 teams end the season disappointed. Staking your reputation on the claim that we're going to be one of them should not impress anybody.

this franchise would be overjoyed with a blowout loss in the wildcard round

[Bill Cody]

Point 1: I have to admit, Tie Rod Taylor is better than I thought he would be. I thought he was going to be terrible. He's not. He's mediocre. More on that later in the post.


Point 2: This thread is kind of funny and kind of disturbing too. No poster should have their fan card questioned or be called a racist if they dare question the quality of the QB/QB's on this team. If we can't have a nice chat and disagree about all things Bills, go ahead and shut down the site now because that's the whole point of this forum. And 16 years of futility makes those kind of remarks particularly ridiculous, Bills fans care and they all deserve a decent product to watch.

Point 3: Some people are satisfied watching competitive games. By and large this team is competitive. And for some that watch the games to be entertained that's enough. No problem from me with that view. But there are others here that aren't satisfied with a goal of being 10-6 and getting into the playoffs on the 3rd tie breaker only to lose on the road 24-3. For this group, and count me in this group, nothing short of hoisting the Lombardi trophy is going to be enough. Yeah, I'll say it, we want to be like the Patriots, championship driven. And for us, Tie Rod isn't good enough and will never be if he gets a million "reps". Rex will never be no matter how many years/teams he's with. And Doug Whaley won't be either. We might be wrong but we've watched and we've made our conclusions. And yeah we're still Bills fans.

[Joe Fo Sho]

What experience is he really gaining? All of those issues are coachable and trainable. The more practice he gets with healthy receivers in a steady offense, the better their timing is going to be. Because that's what it comes down to, is timing and comfort.

My issue isn't with people who disagree with me about Tyrod. It's with the gall they have to suggest that we can honestly dismiss Tyrod's future potential when we've had this many injuries to our WRs and with a coach who is as much of a joke as Rex Ryan. I don't trust the judgment of anybody who thinks they've seen enough to write off Tyrod Taylor. They haven't.

Tyrod has improved how much in the 2 years that he's been starting for us?


2015 - 217 yards/game, 63.7 Comp %, 1.42 TDs/game, 0.43 INTs/game, 99.4 QB Rating
2016 - 191 Yards/game, 60.6 Comp %, 0.92 TDs/game, 0.42 INTs/game, 84.6 QB Rating


Why do you think he's going to improve? Is it just because you're such a good Bills fan and you deserve to see the Bills in the playoffs?

[justasportsfan]

So what's the solution? Cut bait and spend the exact same money, if not more, on Tony Romo?

in 2014 , Romo had 3,705 yards 34 TDS 9 INt's with Murray as his running back. Murray had 1845 yds.

The pass opened up the run and the run opened up the pass.


Tyrod at qb does not help open things up for Shady. Shady's dynamic run game means nothing to the offense because Tyrod is a below average passer.

34 TD's....I'll take my chances with Romo and still draft a qb.

[WagonCircler]

What experience is he really gaining? All of those issues are coachable and trainable. The more practice he gets with healthy receivers in a steady offense, the better their timing is going to be. Because that's what it comes down to, is timing and comfort.

My issue isn't with people who disagree with me about Tyrod. It's with the gall they have to suggest that we can honestly dismiss Tyrod's future potential when we've had this many injuries to our WRs and with a coach who is as much of a joke as Rex Ryan. I don't trust the judgment of anybody who thinks they've seen enough to write off Tyrod Taylor. They haven't.

A typical asinine post from you.

First of all, like EJ's issues, Tyrod's problems are NOT trainable. You can either quickly analyze complex visual information, or you cannot. It's a rare gift. Same goes for accuracy. Tyrod's horrendous accuracy has nothing to do with his receivers. And he has better protection than most QB's.

But no, you stick to the bizarre "every criticism of a black person is racism" thing. It's exactly the kind of thing that comforts small minded idiots like you.

[ICRockets]

Tyrod has improved how much in the 2 years that he's been starting for us?


2015 - 217 yards/game, 63.7 Comp %, 1.42 TDs/game, 0.43 INTs/game, 99.4 QB Rating
2016 - 191 Yards/game, 60.6 Comp %, 0.92 TDs/game, 0.42 INTs/game, 84.6 QB Rating


Why do you think he's going to improve? Is it just because you're such a good Bills fan and you deserve to see the Bills in the playoffs?

I try to see the forest instead of focusing on individual trees. We've got a few nice trees on this team. Tyrod might grow into one of them. He also might not. But we can plant nice trees around him and still improve our forest. That feels like the smarter long-term move for our team than cutting Tyrod this offseason after the abysmal luck we've had with WR injuries.

I get it, there's nothing narratively or rhetorically satisfying about being unlucky. You can't stake your reputation on any kind of astute analysis coming out of that. There's no "hot take" to be had. But the facts are what they are, and there's very little you can learn from this season by parting ways with Tyrod Taylor at the end of it. And if your argument is that Tyrod has no strengths you can build into an offense, then (if I'm the Bills) frankly you just interviewed yourself out of the job of building our offense.

[ICRockets]

But no, you stick to the bizarre "every criticism of a black person is racism" thing. It's exactly the kind of thing that comforts small minded idiots like you.
Interesting. I've responded to multiple posters in this thread, and only once did I suggest to one of them that there could be a racial element to his worldview. You seem triggered.

[ICRockets]

in 2014 , Romo had 3,705 yards 34 TDS 9 INt's with Murray as his running back. Murray had 1845 yds.

The pass opened up the run and the run opened up the pass.


Tyrod at qb does not help open things up for Shady. Shady's dynamic run game means nothing to the offense because Tyrod is a below average passer.

34 TD's....I'll take my chances with Romo and still draft a qb.

How long do you expect to have Romo? You don't think it's going to set us back elsewhere if we spend such a huge resource as a 1st-3rd round pick on a QB instead of a DB or WR? We need skill players, and the more great ones we have the easier things will get for our QB, whether that's Tyrod or Romo. I think we have Tyrod longer than Romo, even if we ever truly get the Good Tony Romo. So I use the resources I have to build around Tyrod while coaching him up. I have no problem firing Rex Ryan this offseason if things go sour in the last 4 games. But for me, Tyrod is safe.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I try to see the forest instead of focusing on individual trees. We've got a few nice trees on this team. Tyrod might grow into one of them. He also might not. But we can plant nice trees around him and still improve our forest. That feels like the smarter long-term move for our team than cutting Tyrod this offseason after the abysmal luck we've had with WR injuries.

Ahhhh, excuses...what all the good QBs use to try to show people that they don't suck.


I get it, there's nothing narratively or rhetorically satisfying about being unlucky. You can't stake your reputation on any kind of astute analysis coming out of that. There's no "hot take" to be had. But the facts are what they are, and there's very little you can learn from this season by parting ways with Tyrod Taylor at the end of it.

You can learn that Tyrod doesn't have what it takes to lead a team to the playoffs. As proven by the last 2 years of him trying. That's kind of a big thing to know.


And if your argument is that Tyrod has no strengths you can build into an offense, then (if I'm the Bills) frankly you just interviewed yourself out of the job of building our offense.

Thankfully, you're not the Bills. God forbid someone building our offense wants a prototype QB with enough size to see open receivers, arm strength, accuracy, and the balls to throw the football anywhere on the field.

[ICRockets]

Thankfully, you're not the Bills. God forbid someone building our offense wants a prototype QB with enough size to see open receivers, arm strength, accuracy, and the balls to throw the football anywhere on the field.
Oh, those grow on trees now? Well why don't I email Terry and let him know I want the Bills to build some Westworld robots and turn their stats all the way up? Apparently you only need to have the vaguest snippet of an idea to think it deserves to be treated as credible!

[trapezeus]

you've paid TT to be a starter. and his contract is ok even as a back up. but he isn't going to realistically go back to being a bench warmer. and if that's where his career projection is going at this point, $33MM dead cap is not worth it. Romo is injury prone and old. keeping him is very expensive. and the WR injuries don't relaly matter for TT. he hasn't thrown timing patterns to anyone. his thing is to hold the ball 3-4 seconds and t hen bail. his use of the field is limited. he hasn't seen wide open receivers a lot of the season. so its not like the lack of WR are giving him no one to throw to. he's not looking. no WR corp is going to make this better for him.

like the year we drafted EJ, this qb deficiency is coming at a terrible time when there are no FA qbs and the draft pool is weak. the bills have painted themselves into a difficult corner yet again. starting TT next year is the exact same results waiting to happen. our offense is too reliant on the big play. if McCoy runs for 150 yards, he has the 50 or 80 yard run in t here. we aren't wearing teams down with our run. we have a lot of 3 and outs. I don't have the stats, but it would be nice to know if we lead the league in 3 and outs or at the top.

[Yasgur's Farm]

For me... It's about the money. If we're going to have a mediocre QB (AND WE WILL FOR THE NEXT 2-3 YEARS) I prefer to pursue the final answer (franchise QB) while paying a reasonable price. I'd continuously draft and pay a journeyman (even $5M for EJ) to lead us until we finally acquire, and groom/nurture the ultimate guy

Furthermore, I sense that keeping Tyrod (even if we deem that the money is worth it) will only delay the process that we all pretty much know is inevitable.

NO MORE SHORTCUTS!!!

[Novacane]

Our OL is not as bad as you make it out to be. Even when Tyrod had plenty of time to throw, he is misfiring a lot.
.


The OL is not bad at all. We have one of the best run games in the league and that's with opponents knowing we're going to run. Most QB would kill to have our running game. Can you imagine how bad Tyrod would look if we couldn't run? OMG it would be ugly!

[justasportsfan]

How long do you expect to have Romo? You don't think it's going to set us back elsewhere if we spend such a huge resource as a 1st-3rd round pick on a QB instead of a DB or WR? We need skill players, and the more great ones we have the easier things will get for our QB, whether that's Tyrod or Romo. I think we have Tyrod longer than Romo, even if we ever truly get the Good Tony Romo. So I use the resources I have to build around Tyrod while coaching him up. I have no problem firing Rex Ryan this offseason if things go sour in the last 4 games. But for me, Tyrod is safe.

Thats why stated to draft a qb.

The patriots and cowboys don't have a Sammy Watkins. But they do have a Brady and a Dak. Doesn't matter if you have skilled players if you don't have a qb.

The reason why we are still stuck in this non-playoff drought is because we haven't had a franchise qb. Tyrod doesn't even have to be a franchise, He just has to be a decent passer and he isn't.

[justasportsfan]

The OL is not bad at all.
I think it was said on WGR that out of all the qb's,Tyrod had had the longest time in the pocket than any qb in the league.


We have one of the best run games in the league and that's with opponents knowing we're going to run.

Most QB would kill to have our running game. Can you imagine how bad Tyrod would look if we couldn't run? OMG it would be ugly!

Imagine if Tyrod had Fitz's brain where he can dissect a play before the snap. Tyrod has the physical tools that Fitz doesn't.
What Tyrod defenders can't understand is that he doesn't have the ability to get rid of the ball fast when he has to. I guess he doesn't have the gonads to thread the ball when he has to.


This is a pass that Tyrod needs to attempt. Hunter was NOT open yet he took a chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw6rFkt8dUI

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Thats why stated to draft a qb.

The patriots and cowboys don't have a Sammy Watkins. But they do have a Brady and a Dak. Doesn't matter if you have skilled players if you don't have a qb.

The reason why we are still stuck in this non-playoff drought is because we haven't had a franchise qb. Tyrod doesn't even have to be a franchise, He just has to be a decent passer and he isn't.

Both the Pats AND the Cowboys have better pass catchers than Buffalo. Clearly their QBs are better as well, but having Watkins for half the games doesn't remotely mean Taylor has the same talent around him as Brady or Prescott/Romo.

[justasportsfan]

Both the Pats AND the Cowboys have better pass catchers than Buffalo. Clearly their QBs are better as well, but having Watkins for half the games doesn't remotely mean Taylor has the same talent around him as Brady or Prescott/Romo.

do they have better pass catches because Brady makes them better? I remember people calling Hogan crap when he was here. I guarantee Clay/Woods would be 10X better with Brady throwing him the ball. Clay is useless here because he works in the middle of the field where Tyrod is blind and Woods would have more than doubled his stats as well with Marsha.

[feldspar]

Interesting. I've responded to multiple posters in this thread, and only once did I suggest to one of them that there could be a racial element to his worldview. You seem triggered.

Lol, you "only once" insinuated that somebody was racist completely unsolicited, just because he doesn't like any of the QBs on the roster.

That's one time too many.

The only one that seems "triggered" is you here.

[Yasgur's Farm]

OMG... "TRIGGER"! Please be careful. Someone may accuse you of being biased against horses.

[Mr. Pink]

I wonder how many more threads we'll have from people defending this bum.

This team will never go anywhere with Tyrod Taylor as the starting QB. You pay him his asinine bonus, he's the starting QB for the next 2 years and we go at least another full season without doing anything to even attempt to get a real QB.

[ICRockets]

The patriots and cowboys don't have a Sammy Watkins.

They have Dez Bryant and Gronk. Both are better than Sammy Watkins.

[justasportsfan]

They have Dez Bryant and Gronk. Both are better than Sammy Watkins.

Gronk would be useless here because he runs up the middle. Edelman is Brady's go to guys when he needs to get rid of the ball fast. He'd be useless under Tyrod too.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Oh, those grow on trees now? Well why don't I email Terry and let him know I want the Bills to build some Westworld robots and turn their stats all the way up? Apparently you only need to have the vaguest snippet of an idea to think it deserves to be treated as credible!

Right, let's just settle for dog s***.

[TacklingDummy]

Interesting. I've responded to multiple posters in this thread, and only once did I suggest to one of them that there could be a racial element to his worldview. You seem triggered.

You caught me. I wanted the Bills to get rid of EJ, TT, and Jones because they are black. Even though I went on to say in the same post that the Bills should sign Romo and draft a QB like Dallas, SS, CP, TB. Last time I checked they were all black too.

Yes get rid of the 3 QBs on the roster because they are black, it has nothing to do with them sucking.

[BertSquirtgum]

Do we challenge for the division with 8 games of Tony Romo and 8 games of Cardale Jones? Because get realistic here, Romo has missed significant time over the last two years AND he's turning 37 in April AND he's coming from an offense with a far better OL and pass catching group.
That's true but he always kept coming back too soon and playing hurt and always ended up hurting himself worse. He has finally had the time to completely heal.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

do they have better pass catches because Brady makes them better? I remember people calling Hogan crap when he was here. I guarantee Clay/Woods would be 10X better with Brady throwing him the ball. Clay is useless here because he works in the middle of the field where Tyrod is blind and Woods would have more than doubled his stats as well with Marsha.


Gronk would be useless here because he runs up the middle. Edelman is Brady's go to guys when he needs to get rid of the ball fast. He'd be useless under Tyrod too.

Gronk runs all over the place, they split him out wide all the time. You'd have a better argument with Bennett or Witten, but Witten is a future Hall of Famer.

[justasportsfan]

Gronk runs all over the place, they split him out wide all the time. You'd have a better argument with Bennett or Witten, but Witten is a future Hall of Famer.

Gronk runs all over the place but if he is made to run up the middle with Tyrod as his QB number would go down. Besides, Tyrod won't throw to Gronk unless he is open.Clay runs all over the place as well and yet, nothing from Tyrod.

If Gronk was our TE and Clay was with the pats we'd be saying "the pats have Clay"

[swiper]

Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end. Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.

Tyrod is a subpar QB. He is hanging in the mid 20's in ranking in all major stats for league starters. We had that with Fitzpatrick. So I'm not sure why your lashing out at Bills fans. They see crap. They complain about crap. And it's running mighty close to 20 years now.

They need to purge the common thread. And you all know where I'm going with that statement.

[WagonCircler]

Gronk runs all over the place but if he is made to run up the middle with Tyrod as his QB number would go down. Besides, Tyrod won't throw to Gronk unless he is open.Clay runs all over the place as well and yet, nothing from Tyrod.

If Gronk was our TE and Clay was with the pats we'd be saying "the pats have Clay"

No we wouldn't.

I agree that Clay is held back y Tyrod, but Clay is not Gronk. No one is Gronk.

[BertSquirtgum]

I try to see the forest instead of focusing on individual trees. We've got a few nice trees on this team. Tyrod might grow into one of them. He also might not. But we can plant nice trees around him and still improve our forest. That feels like the smarter long-term move for our team than cutting Tyrod this offseason after the abysmal luck we've had with WR injuries.

I get it, there's nothing narratively or rhetorically satisfying about being unlucky. You can't stake your reputation on any kind of astute analysis coming out of that. There's no "hot take" to be had. But the facts are what they are, and there's very little you can learn from this season by parting ways with Tyrod Taylor at the end of it. And if your argument is that Tyrod has no strengths you can build into an offense, then (if I'm the Bills) frankly you just interviewed yourself out of the job of building our offense.
He's been in the league for 6 ****ing years now. He's started in this league for two ****ing years now. He ****ing regressed to ****ing terrible this year. If he hasn't turned the corner yet, he's never going to. How can you not see that? Are you really that stupid?

[WagonCircler]

Interesting. I've responded to multiple posters in this thread, and only once did I suggest to one of them that there could be a racial element to his worldview. You seem triggered.

Yup. Stupidity sets alarms off every time, and you're a poster child for it.

[BertSquirtgum]

How long do you expect to have Romo? You don't think it's going to set us back elsewhere if we spend such a huge resource as a 1st-3rd round pick on a QB instead of a DB or WR? We need skill players, and the more great ones we have the easier things will get for our QB, whether that's Tyrod or Romo. I think we have Tyrod longer than Romo, even if we ever truly get the Good Tony Romo. So I use the resources I have to build around Tyrod while coaching him up. I have no problem firing Rex Ryan this offseason if things go sour in the last 4 games. But for me, Tyrod is safe.
The Cowboys will want to rid themselves of that contract as much as that contract scares people like you. It's not going to cost more than a 3rd to get Romo. It will totally be worth renting Romo for two-three years while the draftees this year sit and learn from him. If the Bills don't do it, Denver is going to.

[WagonCircler]

The Cowboys will want to rid themselves of that contract as much as that contract scares people like you. It's not going to cost more than a 3rd to get Romo. It will totally be worth renting Romo for two-three years while the draftees this year sit and learn from him. If the Bills don't do it, Denver is going to.

I would be totally on board with renting Romo if I thought he could stay upright for more than 2 consecutive games without missing the next 5.

But I don't.

[ICRockets]

Right, let's just settle for dog s***.

If you think Tyrod Taylor is dog ****, you're a complete ****ing idiot. I give your point of view ZERO credence if that's honestly your take.

[Joe Fo Sho]

If you think Tyrod Taylor is dog ****, you're a complete ****ing idiot. I give your point of view ZERO credence if that's honestly your take.

To me there's no difference between a QB is OK and one who is dog s***. Neither one is going to get the job done, why waste our time with them?

For the record, I've been a pro-Tyrod up until a few weeks ago. He's not dog s***, but he's not good enough. Also for the record, I've always been against his contract. That's what really is dog s***.

I'm convinced that we're stuck with him, though.

[ICRockets]

To me there's no difference between a QB is OK and one who is dog s***.


But...there is. There is an objective, real world, tangible difference between "OK" and "dog ****". So if you start your analysis by actively dismissing this, you undermine the efficacy of your overall assessment. And then I'm able to sit here and tell you, justifiably, that I lend zero credence to your take. So, where does that leave us? There's no conversation to be had if one party refuses to have it in reality.

[Ingtar33]

The national press has been going on about how much of a bunch of lunatics bills fans are. I had to look into what they're talking about, and apparently you idiots have the local press questioning if the bills should pick up Tyrod's contract.

I'll say this once.

Draft a QB, draft as many QBs as you want, as Tyrod is an average QB. But you don't cut a guy who's in line to get paid what his market value is worth. And that contract extension is NOT an over-payment in the current QB market. That contract bonus would make him the 13th highest paid QB in the league, and within 2mil of 20th. It's pretty much exactly what he SHOULD be paid.

I get your disastisfaction with not making the playoffs. I hate the fact I can look at the schedule in February and predict the final record. I hate how it's almost been 20 years since we've made the playoffs. However, some of you need to reign it back. Tyrod is good enough to get you to the playoffs. PERIOD. and kicking him out the door without a better option on the roster would make us much more unlikely to make the playoffs in our lifetime.

We haven't failed to make the playoffs the last two years because of Rex's offensive philosophy or Tyrod's play. We've failed to make the playoffs the last two years because Rex's defense has been a dumpster fire.

Lets keep things in proper perspective.

[Victor7]

The Cowboys will want to rid themselves of that contract as much as that contract scares people like you. It's not going to cost more than a 3rd to get Romo. It will totally be worth renting Romo for two-three years while the draftees this year sit and learn from him. If the Bills don't do it, Denver is going to.
This

I keep reading people that wanna stay away from Romo for contract reasons. I doubt he gets traded. I think he's getting cut and so the deal is void and he gets to sign a new one. Besides if we keep Taylor its also on astronomical numbers thanks to the ineptitude of Doug Whaley the premature contract extender. So even in the extreme case that we have to trade for Romo and take his massive deal who would you rather pay big money to ? Romo or TMobile ? The correct answer is Romo.

This is all hypothetical of course and I actually think we have little to no shot of landing Romo. I think a team like Denver or Chicago would be more appealing to him.

[Joe Fo Sho]

But...there is. There is an objective, real world, tangible difference between "OK" and "dog ****". So if you start your analysis by actively dismissing this, you undermine the efficacy of your overall assessment.

A team with an OK QB and a team with a terrible QB both end up watching the playoffs/Superbowl. There's no difference. You're just satisfied with mediocrity and are trying to justify it to yourself. Others are willing to search for better while you wish a longer playoff drought on them. Go s*** in your hat.


And then I'm able to sit here and tell you, justifiably, that I lend zero credence to your take. So, where does that leave us? There's no conversation to be had if one party refuses to have it in reality.

Jesus christ.

[Mr. Pink]

The national press has been going on about how much of a bunch of lunatics bills fans are. I had to look into what they're talking about, and apparently you idiots have the local press questioning if the bills should pick up Tyrod's contract.

I'll say this once.

Draft a QB, draft as many QBs as you want, as Tyrod is an average QB. But you don't cut a guy who's in line to get paid what his market value is worth. And that contract extension is NOT an over-payment in the current QB market. That contract bonus would make him the 13th highest paid QB in the league, and within 2mil of 20th. It's pretty much exactly what he SHOULD be paid.

I get your disastisfaction with not making the playoffs. I hate the fact I can look at the schedule in February and predict the final record. I hate how it's almost been 20 years since we've made the playoffs. However, some of you need to reign it back. Tyrod is good enough to get you to the playoffs. PERIOD. and kicking him out the door without a better option on the roster would make us much more unlikely to make the playoffs in our lifetime.

We haven't failed to make the playoffs the last two years because of Rex's offensive philosophy or Tyrod's play. We've failed to make the playoffs the last two years because Rex's defense has been a dumpster fire.

Lets keep things in proper perspective.

Here's some proper perspective.

Cleveland is likely the only other team in the league Tyrod would start for.

Tyrod's market value is not what his contract would pay him next year, no one else in the league would give him that kind of money.

[ICRockets]

A team with an OK QB and a team with a terrible QB both end up watching the playoffs/Superbowl.


A team with a terrible QB JUST WON THE SUPER BOWL LAST SEASON.

[Joe Fo Sho]

A team with a terrible QB JUST WON THE SUPER BOWL LAST SEASON.

A team with one of the smartest QBs ever to play the game won the Super Bowl last season, a guy who also had a partial tear of his plantar fascia in his lead throwing foot. Your opinion is dog s***.

[ICRockets]

A team with one of the smartest QBs ever to play the game won the Super Bowl last season, a guy who also had a partial tear of his plantar fascia in his lead throwing foot. Your opinion is dog s***.

So you admit there are exceptions to your idiot rules about what makes an acceptable quarterback?

[trapezeus]

TT is fairly paid. the issue is the term. because there is no way we are starting him for 5 more seasons. he's a stop gap for the next guy. but the second the next guy is ready and gets a chance, if TT wants to be a starter and doesn't like the role, you have to cut him and if that cut happens where the cap hit is extensive, jo fo sho is absolutely correct, its the same to start a butt fumble qb vs an average qb. you'll get to 9-7 one way or the other.

if you are looking and saying, "who starts next year if not TT and gives us a chance," you probably get to a point where you know TT is only going to get between 4-8 wins. is cardale any different? if he gets the same, you're drafting a qb again anyways in 2018. you should be drafting one in 2017 and in 2018. but we also have no idea if cardale can get it. he is a winner. which for whatever reason ends up carrying a lot of weight vs the pure stats.

the only issue is that cardale doesn't seem to study the game and isn't coming along very fast. we partly knew that at draft time, but it isnt' encouraging when they can't get him to be the number 2 when we know exactly what we have in EJ. and likeit or not, TT is becoming more ej everyday. he's missing throws he wouldn't have missed last year. and he's clearly missing reads and we've seen WR's who are wide open.

[justasportsfan]

No we wouldn't.

I agree that Clay is held back y Tyrod, but Clay is not Gronk. No one is Gronk.

My point is that Gronk will not be as good as he is. Is Clay half the player he once was because of Tyrod? If, so then Gronk too will most likely be half the player he is because Tyrod cant see him. You can't hit what you cant see.

[Joe Fo Sho]

So you admit there are exceptions to your idiot rules about what makes an acceptable quarterback?

Sure, the smartest QB ever to play can be on my team any day of the week. There are exceptions to everything. Tyrod is not the exception, as proven by his 2 years worth of starting on the Buffalo Bills.

The fact that you think Tyrod is capable of leading this team to a Super Bowl, but think that Peyton Manning was a terrible QB last year tells me everything I need to know about your idiot opinion on this subject.

[Novacane]

Tyrod is good enough to get you to the playoffs. PERIOD.

.


He's never done it so I don't know how you can make that claim.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Float like a butterfly
Sting like a bee
Your hands


can't hit what you cant see.

Muhammad Ali agrees.

[Arm of Harm]

How is anyone questioning whether to let Tyrod walk or not?



Do we really want to go back to starting bad QB's with the dollar and a dream plan to draft a stud?
Do we really want to pay for Tony Romo? Who lost his job to a rookie, will ask for more money that Tyrod next year, and who has never won a SB?
Do we really think Tyrod is the problem when we're a run heavy offense in a passing league, Our #1 WR has basically been out all year, we really dont have a true #2 WR on the roster, Robert Woods isn't being played where he should be (in the slot), and we've been forced to start walk-on's and #4, 5, even 6 WR's on the depth chart?
Do we really want a pocket passer with our OL? We don't have the OL of Dal or Oak


And consider this:



Tyrod currently has the 25th highest cap hit at the QB position
Next years cap hit if we pick up the option will be 20th in the league... 20th
The team, with Tyrods contract, is set to be 32 mill under in 2017 as per Spotrac at this point


For the cost to us vs. going rate, Tyrods upside, his abilities as a runner, and his deep ball this isn't a tough choice. Keep him.

And if Whaley stays (likely) and Rex stays (not as likley) he will be kept. If we have a new HC all bets are off and he could be gone. But personally, I'd rather just keep him and improve the OL and weapons. He's not our problem.

Before deciding what the Bills need to do going forward, we need to take a hard, realistic look at what we currently have.

1) Do we have a QB capable of carrying a team to the Super Bowl? No, we do not. It is impossible for a QB like Taylor to ever hoist a Lombardi Trophy, except as a backup or if paired with a defense like the Ravens of 2000.

2) Do we have a GM capable of remedying the Bills' deficiency at QB? No, we do not. Instead we have a GM whose primary focus is on a QB's physical tools, who downplays the importance of accuracy and information processing speed.

3) Do we have a GM capable of replicating the defense and running game that the Ravens of 2000 possessed? No we don't. Whaley has had some successes at non-QB positions, but not nearly enough successes to recreate the Ravens of 2000.

The Bills will not win a Super Bowl until Doug Whaley is replaced as GM, Rex Ryan as head coach, and Tyrod Taylor as QB. Romo isn't going to hoist a Lombardi Trophy either, not at this point in his career. Romo is not the answer. Allowing Doug Whaley to draft more QBs would be a case of spinning our wheels, because Whaley cannot evaluate QB talent.

The road to the Super Bowl begins with firing Doug Whaley. Until that important step is accomplished, anything this team does will constitute more of the same. Suppose that next season we keep Whaley/Rex/Tyrod, barely squeak into the playoffs, then get eliminated by a real team like Oakland or New England. What possible good could come from that? A season like that would not be a stepping stone toward a Super Bowl win. At best such a season would create the illusion of progress, thereby obfuscating this team's severe long-term deficiencies and limitations.

There will never be a rational reason for any neutral commentator to describe the Bills as a legitimate Super Bowl contender as long as Doug Whaley is GM. That being the case, a decision to keep Whaley another year is the same as a decision to consign the team to another year of Super Bowl irrelevance. If the decision to consign the team to another year of irrelevance has been made, it does not at that point matter much one way or the other whether we keep Taylor.

[Bill Cody]

But...there is. There is an objective, real world, tangible difference between "OK" and "dog ****". So if you start your analysis by actively dismissing this, you undermine the efficacy of your overall assessment. And then I'm able to sit here and tell you, justifiably, that I lend zero credence to your take. So, where does that leave us? There's no conversation to be had if one party refuses to have it in reality.

lol

[Bill Cody]

The Cowboys will want to rid themselves of that contract as much as that contract scares people like you. It's not going to cost more than a 3rd to get Romo. It will totally be worth renting Romo for two-three years while the draftees this year sit and learn from him. If the Bills don't do it, Denver is going to.

It would cost nothing. Romo will be released after the season. Nobody will take on that contract.

[Mr. Pink]

It would cost nothing. Romo will be released after the season. Nobody will take on that contract.

They may keep Romo for one more year as a backup.

He has a dead cap number of 19m, it would save them 5m to release him though.

After next year, he's gone though as the cap hit wouldn't be as severe.

[ICRockets]

Sure, the smartest QB ever to play can be on my team any day of the week. .

Even if he's dealing with shoulder and foot injuries that limit his ability to both throw the ball and move around in the pocket? It seems to me that the only thing a smart QB who can't run or throw can give you is a guy who doesn't turn the ball over or take sacks. Guess what Tyrod's strengths are?

[Mr. Pink]

Even if he's dealing with shoulder and foot injuries that limit his ability to both throw the ball and move around in the pocket? It seems to me that the only thing a smart QB who can't run or throw can give you is a guy who doesn't turn the ball over or take sacks. Guess what Tyrod's strengths are?

handing the ball off and running the read option!

[Joe Fo Sho]

Guess what Tyrod's strengths are?

It's certainly not throwing the football. What a terrible thing to want...a QB whose biggest strength is his ability to throw a football.

I think we all remember some of the best seasons any QB had ever had, right? That year that Brady set a record for least amount of sacks, or when Peyton ran for 1,000 yards, or when Brees hit all of his checkdowns, or when Favre threw for 15 touchdowns, or when Elway avoided the entire middle of the field for a whole year, or when Montana set a record for lowest number of 4th quarter comebacks.

But hey, you seem to be content being a loser. More power to you.

[feldspar]

Tyrod Taylor has basically made no progress in his second year starting, which is also his 6th year in the league...same guy we've seen from the beginning.

I don't see that changing too much next year, either.

[ICRockets]

Tyrod Taylor has basically made no progress in his second year starting, which is also his 6th year in the league...same guy we've seen from the beginning.

I don't see that changing too much next year, either.
What progress can you reasonably expect him to make when he has not played a single game with more than 1 competent and healthy receiver on the field at any given time?

[Mr. Pink]

What progress can you reasonably expect him to make when he has not played a single game with more than 1 competent and healthy receiver on the field at any given time?

Does it matter who the receivers are when all he does is look at 1 of them and if's not wide open, he runs around?

And even if someone is wide open, it doesn't even mean he'll throw a catchable ball to the receiver as this year almost every throw of his has sailed.

Does it matter who the receivers are if they go into the middle of the field because Tyrod refuses to look at, or simply can't see, the middle?

[Mace]

-Got to have a QB who can march his team downfield with his arm when needed. Taylor can't.

-Got a QB coach named David Lee, Wildcat Lee. Note his use of Wildcat and Read Option, designed QB running plays. This is their desired offense. Tony Romo, oft injured 38 year old pocket passer ? No.

-We've all noticed how settling for "okay" goes in life, we've all settled for "ok", then regretted it because the decision never really met our needs like extending ourselves for a better option would have. Once stuck with payments, you're stuck with that ok you settled for, and try to rationalize it, always knowing you needed better. You see people "settle for ok" in relationships, then you see the results.
If they renegotiate Taylor's contract, and I see the possibility mentioned in the media, maybe ok is adequate year by year as they try other options. He's a quality backup QB.

But they still need someone who can rally the team with his arm and march them downfield quickly and decisively if they want to get away from perpetual 8-8. That's not Taylor.

You see rookies able to do this. Taylor can't. We need better.

[swiper]

What progress can you reasonably expect him to make when he has not played a single game with more than 1 competent and healthy receiver on the field at any given time?

Edited by YardRat, attacking the poster.

[ICRockets]

This thread has been really eye-opening. I was so wrong at the beginning, and now I've seen the light. All the name-calling really convinced me that you're great people who deserve happiness.

[Luisito23]

LOL...Why is that fat boy still defending Taylor...:lol:

[Luisito23]

All the name-calling really convinced me that you're great people who deserve happiness.

It's because you're one of the most horrible posters on this site...and not just about the Bills, but in general.

[ICRockets]

It's because you're one of the most horrible posters on this site...and not just about the Bills, but in general.

Thanks, it's always nice to hear from a fan!

[YardRat]

Edited by YardRat, attacking the poster.

Enough. Stop the personal attacks. You are allegedly an adult, try and participate in a conversation like one.

[Mace]

This thread has been really eye-opening. I was so wrong at the beginning, and now I've seen the light. All the name-calling really convinced me that you're great people who deserve happiness.

Yeah. I'm an ******* sometimes but not like this. This was bull****. I mean this seriously, people need to get a stinking grip.

[BillsFanCupp38]

Tyrod stinks like monkey butt

[Novacane]

What progress can you reasonably expect him to make when he has not played a single game with more than 1 competent and healthy receiver on the field at any given time?



Have you watched any all 22? This blaming the WR is bull****. Watch some if you haven't. See for yourself all the open WR that Tyrod never sees!

[The Jokeman]

Thanks, it's always nice to hear from a fan!

The attacks are wrong but a lot of the things brought up now are all of the same things that were brought up about Tyrod in numerous threads before as I remember debating this in the preseason. Specifically his in ability to move the team down the field with his arm on a regular basis. Sure he's missed Sammy Watkins but Tyrod still isn't throwing to the guys out there. If he did and the guys dropped it or weren't open then you could argue. Do we have a Dez Bryant? No but think Robert Woods is as good if not better than Cole Beasley. Clay I feel could be as good as Witten. Heck Shady was a great pass catcher in the days of Andy Reid. Yet Tyrod outside of the Seattle game has used these guys. Even in the Seattle game which was Tyrod's best passing game and he still had a chance to lead us to victory and failed.

[mdcas22]

LOL...Why is that fat boy still defending Taylor...:lol:



:shocked:

[Luisito23]

:shocked:

Yup, I took it too far...My bad.

[Joe Fo Sho]

This thread has been really eye-opening. I was so wrong at the beginning, and now I've seen the light. All the name-calling really convinced me that you're great people who deserve happiness.

I totally understand what you mean. Some people can't get their point across without calling other people complete ****ing idiots or saying that they're racists.


If you think Tyrod Taylor is dog ****, you're a complete ****ing idiot.


So you admit there are exceptions to your idiot rules about what makes an acceptable quarterback?


Cut the 3 black guys, including the one we know nothing about.

Sign a white guy.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that your plan cuts precisely along a racial divide, though, right?

[Mace]

I totally understand what you mean. Some people can't get their point across without calling other people complete ****ing idiots or saying that they're racists.

I always though you attack the post not the poster. All of your examples attack the post. There's a nuance there, as opposed to directly calling someone names or irrelevantly addressing their perceived personal appearance which has nothing to do with the dialogue.

We've all had our posts attacked by other people, gotten general insults, perceived personal appearance if anyone knows how anyone looks ? Come on.

[WagonCircler]

But...there is. There is an objective, real world, tangible difference between "OK" and "dog ****". So if you start your analysis by actively dismissing this, you undermine the efficacy of your overall assessment. And then I'm able to sit here and tell you, justifiably, that I lend zero credence to your take. So, where does that leave us? There's no conversation to be had if one party refuses to have it in reality.

Actually, there is a difference. An "OK" QB is even worse for a team than a garbage QB.

A garbage QB makes it very clear that a move needs to be made, immediately.

An OK QB like Tyrod perpetuates the mediocrity. He NEVER gets you to the playoffs, his contract and tenure are rationalized by idiots like Doug Whaley, and his level of competence gets you an extra one or two wins a year, knocking you out of contention for true impact players in the first round.

You're exactly the kind of sheep the PT Barnum....errrr....Russ Brandon counts on. Keep swallowing and hand over your cash.

[jamze132]

Here's my professional opinion...and yes it matters.

Tyrod Taylor's contract should be picked up. There is no one out there who's available that we can get that is better. Say what you want about Romo, but for one, I doubt we would beat Denver in a bidding war for him, and two, he's injury prone and on the wrong side of 37. You're pretty much guaranteeing Cardale Jones is starting NFL games next season.

Tyrod does not have nor will he ever have the accuracy needed to carry a team when necessary. He also fails to anticipate with his throws. He waits until the receiver is open before deciding to throw and by the time the ball gets their, it's often too late. These are just two traits that all the good/great QBs have.

I would pick up Tyrod's option but fire Rex Ryan when the season is over. Let Whaley hire his own coach and see what happens without his hands being tied by an owner forcing a "name" into the fold. The new coach will at least have a QB who will ensure a competitive team each year and can be a placeholder who has a continuously team-friendly contract the longer he's on the team since his cap hit decreases each year. In 2-3 years we can only hope that Whaley and the new coach have found their guy.

If we stick with Rex Ryan and his ****ty ass dildo of a defense, Tyrod will never have the opportunity to "lead" us to the playoffs because he's not the type of QB that can win from behind. He would be a very effective QB on a team that had a top 5 defense.

[ICRockets]

Here's my professional opinion...and yes it matters.

Tyrod Taylor's contract should be picked up. There is no one out there who's available that we can get that is better. Say what you want about Romo, but for one, I doubt we would beat Denver in a bidding war for him, and two, he's injury prone and on the wrong side of 37. You're pretty much guaranteeing Cardale Jones is starting NFL games next season.

Tyrod does not have nor will he ever have the accuracy needed to carry a team when necessary. He also fails to anticipate with his throws. He waits until the receiver is open before deciding to throw and by the time the ball gets their, it's often too late. These are just two traits that all the good/great QBs have.

I would pick up Tyrod's option but fire Rex Ryan when the season is over. Let Whaley hire his own coach and see what happens without his hands being tied by an owner forcing a "name" into the fold. The new coach will at least have a QB who will ensure a competitive team each year and can be a placeholder who has a continuously team-friendly contract the longer he's on the team since his cap hit decreases each year. In 2-3 years we can only hope that Whaley and the new coach have found their guy.

If we stick with Rex Ryan and his ****ty ass dildo of a defense, Tyrod will never have the opportunity to "lead" us to the playoffs because he's not the type of QB that can win from behind. He would be a very effective QB on a team that had a top 5 defense.

Totally agree. I'd promote Anthony Lynn to head coach if he wants it, because I think he's getting a HC job after this season anyway. Then I'd bring in an offensive coordinator who has worked extensively with one/some of those aforementioned QBs who know how to lead WRs. If Tyrod can't hone that skill set after being properly coached and having time to actually get comfortable with healthy/good receivers, then we know it's his fault that it doesn't happen. Nobody can know that right now, whether or not they're intelligent enough to recognize that fact.

[BertSquirtgum]

Omg

[trapezeus]

woah. I agree with the idea that its hard not to get TT. but firing a coach and then sticking him with TT is a bad idea. I think a coach would rather come in with no prospects and a chance to pick his guy and ride with cardale for a season without putting his job at jeopardy. going to A Lynn who was a running back's coach at the start of the season, is insane. I don't like the coordinator to HC route in the NFL. I would rather get a HC at NFL or college experience. if you admit rex is a problem, then you start needing to realize that it goes higher than that and the bueaucrats need to be cut first and then the team gets rebuilt. obviously that will never happen for reasons unknown to everyone, but if you are cutting the coach, you can't keep the qb. if they sell continuity and keep rex, then I think you keep TT and let them get the last year together.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

http://media.wgr550.com/a/117713291/12-09-bills-gm-doug-whaley-with-howard-simon.htm

Whaley says decisions yet to be made. Not so kindly if you think about it.

There is an article analyzing Taylor's 25 games compared to guys like Wilson http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/12/3/13793994/tyrod-taylor-at-25-starts-compare-tom-brady-drew-brees-russell-wilson-ben-roethlisberger. Believe it or not, Taylor's numbers are not that far off. But two things stick out to me: 1) Taylor is older, sat behind Flacco for 4 years. 2) Taylor's standard deviation is low. Combined with his age and experience in NFL (even though not starting experience), it means he's NOT going to get much better.

[Bill Cody]

2015
BUF
16 36 59 450 12.5 46 2 18 0 0
2016
NE
11 27 39 484 17.9 63 3 17 1 1

The WR excuse is just that...an excuse. Chris Hogan was here last year with Taylor. He averaged 12.5 yards per catch last year and it took 59 targets for him to catch 36 balls. This year with Brady he's up to 17.9 YPC and has 27 catches in just 39 targets in 11 games. Did Hogan get better this year?

Taylor tries hard but he just isn't that good at that throwing thing. Again it all comes back to what you want. If you want mediocrity, a QB that can get you to 8-8, 9-7 maybe 10-6 I'd sign Taylor to a lifetime contract. If you want a championship you need to cut and run.

[sdbillsfan2]

How hard can it be to replace a guy who averages about 200 yds a gm , can see over the middle , is inconsistent with short and intermediate passes, has 5 gms this season with zero passing tds .and will never carry a team on his own.
Seriously...everytime I examine his games there are more negatives than positives. He won't get better and he doesn't make anyone around him better. He's actually wasting the talents of some decent recievers.

[ICRockets]

How hard can it be to replace a guy who averages about 200 yds a gm , can see over the middle , is inconsistent with short and intermediate passes, has 5 gms this season with zero passing tds .and will never carry a team on his own.
Seriously...everytime I examine his games there are more negatives than positives. He won't get better and he doesn't make anyone around him better. He's actually wasting the talents of some decent recievers.

So you're saying all we need to do is start EJ?

[Joe Fo Sho]

So you're saying all we need to do is start EJ?

That's not at all what he's saying, and it seemed pretty clear to me.

If we did start EJ we'd be in the same place we are today though, on the outside looking in.

[ICRockets]

That's not at all what he's saying, and it seemed pretty clear to me.

If we did start EJ we'd be in the same place we are today though, on the outside looking in.
Hmm, then might it actually be kind of difficult to replace Tyrod? Might that be what you're really angry about? You want to replace Tyrod, but you can't surmise a plan you feel confident arguing for if asked to show your work. And it makes you angry that you have to accept that the smart play is to hold on to Tyrod and improve the team around him. I'm sorry you feel that way.

[sdbillsfan2]

So you're saying all we need to do is start EJ?
Where did I mention anything about EJ. My point is was and always has been ..Taylor can be replaced. Easily..via draft via trade...But unless the Bills actually make a real effort to improve the position ..the rest of the offense must suffer because of Tyrods short comings..I DONT know how to spell it out any clearer.
I suspect your just trying to bait the board into arguing to draw attention ..Sorry ..not taking the bait...I already see how this in fighting has made you look foolish.

[ICRockets]

Taylor can be replaced. Easily..via draft via trade

Great. Give us your pitch.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Hmm, then might it actually be kind of difficult to replace Tyrod?

No, it won't be. Just because a bad replacement would be EJ Manuel doesn't mean that there is no possible replacement for a guy who is averaging less than 200 yards per game and will finish the season with 15 touchdowns.


Might that be what you're really angry about?

Uh oh, am I angry? Are you going to use one of those fresh internet words and call me 'triggered?' That's so dank, bro.


You want to replace Tyrod, but you can't surmise a plan you feel confident arguing for if asked to show your work. And it makes you angry that you have to accept that the smart play is to hold on to Tyrod and improve the team around him.

I'm not afraid to argue what I want done. I want Tyrod gone, and I'm arguing it. I'd be happier at this point with an unknown QB, whether it be a rookie, Cardale, or some other QB we find like the way we got Tyrod. Hell, I'd be happier with Cutler than with Tyrod. At least it might be entertaining football instead of this boring garbage that we've been witnessing.

If it is a rookie, I want one of the top guys and I'd be fine with trading up to get them. It's not impossible to do anymore.


I'm sorry you feel that way.

No one cares how you feel.

[ICRockets]

I want Tyrod gone, and I'm arguing it. I'd be happier at this point with an unknown QB

Ay, there's the rub. You're not arguing about what would make the Bills better, you're arguing for the sake of your own enjoyment. Because you know that you can't make a sufficient argument about what makes the Bills better if you have an unknown variable in the equation.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Ay, there's the rub. You're not arguing about what would make the Bills better, you're arguing for the sake of your own enjoyment. Because you know that you can't make a sufficient argument about what makes the Bills better if you have an unknown variable in the equation.

I'm happier when the Bills are better, duh.

Unlike you who has admitted to hoping for the playoff drought to continue. Maybe that's why you want to keep Tyrod.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Much, much, much better to play someone like EJ @ $5m over Tyrod @ $27M... Gives us cap room while we look for Mr Franchise

[ICRockets]

I'm happier when the Bills are better, duh.

Sure, but you're also happier when you get what you want, and you want Tyrod gone. If it doesn't matter who replaces him, which is what you explicitly just told us, then you cannot make a feasible argument that you're trying to make the Bills better. You just hope it's a by-product of doing what makes you happy.

[ICRockets]

Hell, I'd be happier with Cutler than with Tyrod. At least it might be entertaining football instead of this boring garbage that we've been witnessing.

There it is. That's not an argument that in any way suggests concern for whether the Bills get BETTER in the search for Tyrod's replacement. The only thing you care about is your own enjoyment of the games. So why should we listen to you when trying to improve the roster?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Sure, but you're also happier when you get what you want, and you want Tyrod gone. If it doesn't matter who replaces him, which is what you explicitly just told us, then you cannot make a feasible argument that you're trying to make the Bills better. You just hope it's a by-product of doing what makes you happy.

I'm not rooting for the playoff drought to continue like you are, which explains your argument entirely.

[Joe Fo Sho]

There it is. That's not an argument that in any way suggests concern for whether the Bills get BETTER in the search for Tyrod's replacement. The only thing you care about is your own enjoyment of the games.

Your argument against me has gone to dog s***, not surprisingly. It started out pretty close to that in the first place.

"BUT YOU DIDN'T PHRASE IT LIKE A TRUE FAN SHOULD PHRASE IT!!! AHHHHH I GOT YOU!!!!"

There's is more than 1 way for football to be entertaining. One way is to watch a good team do well on the field. Another way would be to watch a team that is obviously trying to succeed. The current state of the offense is not either of those, it's no wonder Tyrod is so boring to watch.


So why should we listen to you when trying to improve the roster?

Because at least I'd be making an attempt to improve the roster, instead of just keeping it the same like you want to do. Why should we keep it the same like you want to do when it's been proven not to be good enough?

[ICRockets]

Because at least I'd be making an attempt to improve the roster
No, you're not. You're trying to improve your own pleasure, and that is the extent of your concerns. There's no other reason to advocate for Jay Cutler over Tyrod Taylor, because there is not a single NFL-caliber mind who would make that same decision if they wanted to field the best possible football team.

[ICRockets]

I'm not rooting for the playoff drought to continue like you are, which explains your argument entirely.
My argument is very simple, actually:

We don't know enough about Tyrod to make an informed decision about which feasible replacements would be improvements. Therefore, we are better served using our resources in areas where we can make informed decisions about what we can feasibly expect to be an improvement. For example, WR depth is sorely needed. A new center should be a priority, unless we consider Jim Groy our future at the position. Our secondary is potentially very weak, and we could stand to add at least one new cornerback and one new safety.

Your counter-argument has been "I could pick a better quarterback than Tyrod if you blindfolded me for the entire process." It's categorically ridiculous. You simply do not deserve to have your opinion listened to if there are smarter opinions out there based in reality. I've providing one. All you have left is histrionics.

[ICRockets]

There's is more than 1 way for football to be entertaining. One way is to watch a good team do well on the field. Another way would be to watch a team that is obviously trying to succeed. The current state of the offense is not either of those, it's no wonder Tyrod is so boring to watch.


There's absolutely zero argument rooted in reality that says Tyrod Taylor is a boring football player. It's the most patently idiotic thing someone could say about him. You'd have better luck arguing he's Vietnamese than you do arguing that he's boring.

[Mr. Pink]

There's absolutely zero argument rooted in reality that says Tyrod Taylor is a boring football player. It's the most patently idiotic thing someone could say about him. You'd have better luck arguing he's Vietnamese than you do arguing that he's boring.

What's exciting about watching a guy who misses wide receivers on almost every play and when he finds one, he throws it 3-10 feet over their head?

When he drops back now my immediate thought is "which receiver is he gonna overthrow if he does actually decide to pass the ball?"

[Joe Fo Sho]

No, you're not. You're trying to improve your own pleasure, and that is the extent of your concerns. There's no other reason to advocate for Jay Cutler over Tyrod Taylor, because there is not a single NFL-caliber mind who would make that same decision if they wanted to field the best possible football team.

There has been exactly 1 NFL-caliber mind that thought starting Tyrod was a good idea. There have been several minds that have decided to start Cutler. Not that I'm advocating for signing Cutler, just saying that your argument is dumb.

[Joe Fo Sho]

What's exciting about watching a guy who misses wide receivers on almost every play and when he finds one, he throws it 3-10 feet over their head?

When he drops back now my immediate thought is "which receiver is he gonna overthrow if he does actually decide to pass the ball?"

He likes it when our playoff drought continues, it excites him.

[Joe Fo Sho]

My argument is very simple, actually:

We don't know enough about Tyrod to make an informed decision about which feasible replacements would be improvements.

AKA - we're happy with mediocrity and willing to live with a QB who won't take us anywhere but a mid round draft pick.


Therefore, we are better served using our resources in areas where we can make informed decisions about what we can feasibly expect to be an improvement. For example, WR depth is sorely needed. A new center should be a priority, unless we consider Jim Groy our future at the position. Our secondary is potentially very weak, and we could stand to add at least one new cornerback and one new safety.

Yet you want to spend a sizeable chunk of resources on a QB who is going nowhere. Good idea.


Your counter-argument has been "I could pick a better quarterback than Tyrod if you blindfolded me for the entire process."

You clearly don't understand what anyone is saying. I can only assume you're using the same comprehension skills while watching Tyrod overthrow his checkdown receivers.

[Joe Fo Sho]

There's absolutely zero argument rooted in reality that says Tyrod Taylor is a boring football player. It's the most patently idiotic thing someone could say about him. You'd have better luck arguing he's Vietnamese than you do arguing that he's boring.

I guess I don't find 75 yards passing in 3 quarters to be as exciting as you do.

[ICRockets]

I guess I don't find 75 yards passing in 3 quarters to be as exciting as you do.
And I guess I don't see how a QB who is a threat to scramble for long 3rd down conversions multiple times a game is boring. If your argument were that Tyrod's not a prototypical franchise QB, then you have no quarrel here. But calling him boring when he has such a dynamic and unique skill set is just plain asinine.

[ICRockets]

Yet you want to spend a sizeable chunk of resources on a QB who is going nowhere. Good idea.


Give me a viable alternative. The best you've been able to come up with is Jay Cutler, whom you have ALREADY backpedaled away from.

[Joe Fo Sho]

And I guess I don't see how a QB who is a threat to scramble for long 3rd down conversions multiple times a game is boring.

I guess I just want a QB who doesn't often get himself in long 3rd down situations. That's just me though.

And yeah, it's a blast watching him scramble around and throw the ball away just before he gets out of bounds.


If your argument were that Tyrod's not a prototypical franchise QB, then you have no quarrel here.

My argument is that Tyrod is not good enough. Tyrod could be 4'7" 400 lbs, but if he could play QB I'd be all for him.


But calling him boring when he has such a dynamic and unique skill set is just plain asinine.

No it's not, because he's boring. Simple minds are easily entertained.

[ICRockets]

AKA - we're happy with mediocrity and willing to live with a QB who won't take us anywhere but a mid round draft pick.



As I've said all along you don't have the evidence to support your assertion that Tyrod is as bad as you think he is. All you have is speculation. I, on the other hand, can point to last year's Denver Broncos as an example of a team that won the Super Bowl with atrocious QB play last season. I can point to Russell Wilson, who has a near-identical playstyle to Tyrod's, making it to 2 straight and winning one of them. If we had an elite defense, we could compete in the playoffs with an offense featuring healthy versions of Shady, Sammy, Woods, and Tyrod.

So, what's the alternative? Gamble with a replacement for Tyrod, with the expectation that if the gambit fails we can tank for a high draft pick? That doesn't sound like someone who cares more about improving the TEAM than he does improving his ENJOYMENT of the team.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Give me a viable alternative. The best you've been able to come up with is Jay Cutler, whom you have ALREADY backpedaled away from.

I'd be happier with Cutler than Tyrod, I'm not backing away from that. What I'm saying is that I don't know that Cutler is the answer either, just that he's closer than Tyrod is.

Tyrod Taylor is bottom of the barrel in most of the important QB stats in the NFL. All while having a running back who is averaging more yards per carry than anyone else in the NFL. Tyrod is holding the offense back. Thinking otherwise is what's really asinine.

I don't get paid to find viable alternatives, but I do know that Tyrod is a waste of time. Much like arguing with you.

[ICRockets]

Simple minds are easily entertained.

I agree. Is that why you've admitted you would be content with practically ANY alternative to Tyrod?

[Joe Fo Sho]

As I've said all along you don't have the evidence to support your assertion that Tyrod is as bad as you think he is. All you have is speculation.

Statistics and winning percentage aren't good enough evidence? His drop in play doesn't prove that he's getting worse?

Where's your evidence that proves Tyrod is going to get better?


I, on the other hand, can point to last year's Denver Broncos as an example of a team that won the Super Bowl with atrocious QB play last season.

If you're happy with atrocious QB play, it makes sense that you want to keep Tyrod.


I can point to Russell Wilson, who has a near-identical playstyle to Tyrod's

Except they're not as identical as you think. Russell is better at almost everything when it comes to the QB position. Tyrod is more athletic. This point is dog s***.


If we had an elite defense, we could compete in the playoffs with an offense featuring healthy versions of Shady, Sammy, Woods, and Tyrod.

So Tyrod is only good enough if he has elite players around him? That's not what I want from my QB. I'd rather have my QB elevate the team instead of needing the team to elevate my QB.


So, what's the alternative? Gamble with a replacement for Tyrod, with the expectation that if the gambit fails we can tank for a high draft pick? That doesn't sound like someone who cares more about improving the TEAM than he does improving his ENJOYMENT of the team.

Sounds like someone who's willing to try to get better, instead of just be satisfied watching the playoffs.

I've never said anything about tanking. That's a terrible idea.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I agree. Is that why you've admitted you would be content with practically ANY alternative to Tyrod?

You can't just try to burn me with the same burn I used on you. The internet is never going to allow that. Come up with something more original.

[djjimkelly]

lets straighten this thread back out

TYROD SUCKS


that being said go bills beat the steelers i'm officially hoping for tyrod injury and EJ time (to help improve our draft pick)

- - - Updated - - -

well its not like tyrod will improve it also

[Yasgur's Farm]

OMG... Why bother!

[ICRockets]

I've never said anything about tanking. That's a terrible idea.
Then we need to have more to go on than "I'll take practically anybody besides Tyrod" don't you think?

[ICRockets]

You can't just try to burn me with the same burn I used on you. The internet is never going to allow that. Come up with something more original.
Yes, actually, I can. It made no sense as a burn toward me because I'm not the one insisting that change for change's sake will entertain me no matter the outcome. I'm advocating for intelligent change and not getting stuck on the QB position as the be-and-end-all for NFL success. I'd rather spend our resources improving our defense, giving Tyrod more weapons, and hiring a coach who doesn't look like he's smelling mystery farts every time the camera cuts to him on the sideline during games.

[Mr. Pink]

Then we need to have more to go on than "I'll take practically anybody besides Tyrod" don't you think?

I would take anyone's starting QB, minus the Browns, in the NFL over Tyrod.

A lot of them would be lateral moves but what's the difference in starting Tyrod or say Ryan Fitzpatrick?

You're not making the playoffs with either of them, as we all know.

[ICRockets]

Tyrod is holding the offense back.

Maybe. You simply don't know that. It could just as easily be our glut of WR injuries or our lack of elite NFL passing experience in our coaching staff. Dismissing those factors because you're too simple-minded to comprehend complex problem-solving is a fool's errand. As such, it makes perfect sense that you've opted to do so.

[ICRockets]

I would take anyone's starting QB, minus the Browns, in the NFL over Tyrod.

A lot of them would be lateral moves but what's the difference in starting Tyrod or say Ryan Fitzpatrick?

You're not making the playoffs with either of them, as we all know.

No, NONE of us know that. That's my entire point. Not that Tyrod is definitely good enough, but that we DO NOT KNOW EITHER WAY because there are other serious deficiencies in our passing game this season. For some reason, there are only a couple of us on this board even willing to have a discussion about our offensive shortcomings that acknowledges that Tyrod is a complete unknown.

[ICRockets]

This is like arguing with Christians who ARE CERTAIN that God exists. The discussion can't be rooted in reality, or they'd have to confront the uncomfortable notion of intellectual ambiguity.

[Mr. Pink]

No, NONE of us know that. That's my entire point. Not that Tyrod is definitely good enough, but that we DO NOT KNOW EITHER WAY because there are other serious deficiencies in our passing game this season. For some reason, there are only a couple of us on this board even willing to have a discussion about our offensive shortcomings that acknowledges that Tyrod is a complete unknown.

He's not an unknown. He's started 26 games and is a 6 year veteran.

The same issues he had in college are the same issues he has at the NFL level.

He is who he was at VA Tech.

[ICRockets]

He's not an unknown. He's started 26 games and is a 6 year veteran.

The same issues he had in college are the same issues he has at the NFL level.

He is who he was at VA Tech.

He was ACC Player of the Year in 2010, so if he is who he was in college that means he has AFC Offensive POTY potential. I doubt very much that's your argument.

[Mr. Pink]

He was ACC Player of the Year in 2010, so if he is who he was in college that means he has AFC Offensive POTY potential. I doubt very much that's your argument.

And Tim Tebow won the Heisman. Your accolades at the college level is zero indication of your success at the NFL level.

His strengths are still his strengths, the ability to run. His weaknesses are still his weaknesses, the inability to be a competent passer.

[ICRockets]

And Tim Tebow won the Heisman. Your accolades at the college level is zero indication of your success at the NFL level.

His strengths are still his strengths, the ability to run. His weaknesses are still his weaknesses, the inability to be a competent passer.

Look at our WR corps and coaching staff, Pink. You'd be hard pressed to find a competent passer another team is willing to part ways with that would succeed in the 2016 Bills offense.

[Mr. Pink]

Look at our WR corps and coaching staff, Pink. You'd be hard pressed to find a competent passer another team is willing to part ways with that would succeed in the 2016 Bills offense.

Both of those are pretty weak overall, no doubt.

But Charles Clay was way more effective with Ryan Tannehill throwing him the ball and Tannehill isn't a proficient passer.

LeSean McCoy was more effective as a pass catcher with Nick Foles and Michael Vick, as another example.

Sammy Watkins, at times, looks visibly upset with Tyrod.

Hell, Joey Harrington, Chris Redmond and Byron Leftwich were able to make Roddy White look like a star and didn't drag down his ability. And that's with Bobby Petrino at HC. The only year he was ever a HC at the NFL level.

At some point you have to actually lay some blame on the shoulders of the guy who's handling the football on every snap and stop looking for excuses.

[ICRockets]

At some point you have to actually lay some blame on the shoulders of the guy who's handling the football on every snap and stop looking for excuses.
I agree. That point is not yet, unless you can provide a very compelling argument for a specific replacement. Nobody has done so yet. Nobody has tried.

[YardRat]

Just using 'the eye test', it appears to me that Tyrod is no different of a QB regardless of what other skill players and offensive linemen are in the game with him.

He won't throw the ball downfield, he has almost zero timing, holds on to the ball too long waiting for somebody to get 'college wide-open', scrambles around until he decides to take off for a minimal gain or loss, over or under throws receivers when he does pull the trigger and yes, to his credit, pulls off some big runs on third down to keep the chains moving on the odd occasion...and it doesn't matter if he's lining up with Sammy, Woods, Clay and Shady or Hunter, Tate, O'Leary and Gillislee.

He is what he is, a roughly .500 QB, and that's not good enough. Staying with Tyrod maintains a low-risk, middlin' reward proposition and I'm willing to forego that 'stability' to take a higher risk with the potential for higher reward, even if it does mean another miss and an even lower 'reward' than what Taylor can achieve.

[ICRockets]

Just using 'the eye test', it appears to me that Tyrod is no different of a QB regardless of what other skill players and offensive linemen are in the game with him.

He won't throw the ball downfield, he has almost zero timing, holds on to the ball too long waiting for somebody to get 'college wide-open', scrambles around until he decides to take off for a minimal gain or loss, over or under throws receivers when he does pull the trigger and yes, to his credit, pulls off some big runs on third down to keep the chains moving on the odd occasion...and it doesn't matter if he's lining up with Sammy, Woods, Clay and Shady or Hunter, Tate, O'Leary and Gillislee.



This is the part I don't agree with, because he has not lined up with Sammy/Woods/Clay/Shady at all this entire season. Simply put, we just don't know that this is the case. For all we know, if he has all of those players healthy at his disposal with competent and experienced NFL passing offense coaches, he could run an elite offense. Will it be the standard "slants and timing routes" offense we see fairly often in today's NFL? No, likely not. But if we have a running game like this season's with Shady and Gillislee as our 1-2 punch then I think the argument can be made that we don't need Tyrod to do much more than he already does, just with a superior supporting cast.

[swiper]

This is the part I don't agree with, because he has not lined up with Sammy/Woods/Clay/Shady at all this entire season.

Who the hell cares you fat idiot? He can't hit Clay to save his life. He rots. And you're nothing more than a fat stupid jack a$$.

[Mr. Pink]

I agree. That point is not yet, unless you can provide a very compelling argument for a specific replacement. Nobody has done so yet. Nobody has tried.

My argument for a replacement is simple.

Kyle Orton looked leagues better than Tyrod has. Orton was a vet journeyman.

[ICRockets]

My argument for a replacement is simple.

Kyle Orton looked leagues better than Tyrod has. Orton was a vet journeyman.

No, he didn't. That's just flat out wrong.

[Mr. Pink]

No, he didn't. That's just flat out wrong.

Of course he did, and he had a weaker running game to rely on.

Robert Woods was relevant with Orton at QB. Sammy Watkins had a similar season with Orton as he did with Tyrod. Chandler outperformed Clay and no, there is no way to argue that Scott Chandler is a better football player than Charles Clay. Fred Jackson performed better as a pass catcher than LeSean McCoy has, and much love to Fred he's no Shady.

And here's two more things Orton was able to do that Tyrod is not. Throw for 300 yards in a game and lead the Bills, in a two minute drill situation, to a TD to win the game.

[swiper]

Why do you bother Pink?

[YardRat]

This is the part I don't agree with, because he has not lined up with Sammy/Woods/Clay/Shady at all this entire season. Simply put, we just don't know that this is the case. For all we know, if he has all of those players healthy at his disposal with competent and experienced NFL passing offense coaches, he could run an elite offense. Will it be the standard "slants and timing routes" offense we see fairly often in today's NFL? No, likely not. But if we have a running game like this season's with Shady and Gillislee as our 1-2 punch then I think the argument can be made that we don't need Tyrod to do much more than he already does, just with a superior supporting cast.

Sure he has. Baltimore in the opener, and the Jets game that followed are the ones that immediately come to mind.

- - - Updated - - -


Who the hell cares you fat idiot? He can't hit Clay to save his life. He rots. And you're nothing more than a fat stupid jack a$$.

Knock it off.

[ICRockets]

When did Kyle Orton throw for 300 yards? If memory serves, we haven't had one in close to a decade.

[ICRockets]

Sure he has. Baltimore in the opener, and the Jets game that followed are the ones that immediately come to mind.

- - - Updated - - -



Knock it off.

Sammy was not healthy in either of those games, but I think you'd be hard pressed to make the argument that we couldn't have won the Jets game with even a mediocre defensive performance.

[sdbillsfan2]

Please ...don't feed the critters.
Talk about holding a topic hostage.

[ICRockets]

Please ...don't feed the critters.
Talk about holding a topic hostage.

I'm actually the one encouraging a broader discussion about how to improve this team that goes beyond the qb position.

[sdbillsfan2]

And here's two more things Orton was able to do that Tyrod is not. Throw for 300 yards in a game and lead the Bills, in a two minute drill situation, to a TD to win the game.

Correct ...341 vs Denver and 308 vs Oakland

[mdcas22]

When did Kyle Orton throw for 300 yards? If memory serves, we haven't had one in close to a decade.
Orton threw for over 300 yards 3 times with the bills, had 308 in his debut against Detroit, had 355 at Denver and 329 at Oakland not to mention he had 299 against the Patriots also so that almost 4 games out of 12 he started for buffalo.

[sdbillsfan2]

How many games this season has TT had zero TD passes ?

[ICRockets]

How many games this season has TT had zero TD passes ?

How many people are arguing that he's had a good season?

[BertSquirtgum]

He was ACC Player of the Year in 2010, so if he is who he was in college that means he has AFC Offensive POTY potential. I doubt very much that's your argument.
I wish this post would shut the **** up because it's so dumb.

[ICRockets]

I wish this post would shut the **** up because it's so dumb.
Agreed. That's why I questioned the efficacy of the logic in the first place. Why is this **** so difficult for you guys to comprehend?

[Arm of Harm]

As I've said all along you don't have the evidence to support your assertion that Tyrod is as bad as you think he is. All you have is speculation. I, on the other hand, can point to last year's Denver Broncos as an example of a team that won the Super Bowl with atrocious QB play last season. I can point to Russell Wilson, who has a near-identical playstyle to Tyrod's, making it to 2 straight and winning one of them. If we had an elite defense, we could compete in the playoffs with an offense featuring healthy versions of Shady, Sammy, Woods, and Tyrod.

So, what's the alternative? Gamble with a replacement for Tyrod, with the expectation that if the gambit fails we can tank for a high draft pick? That doesn't sound like someone who cares more about improving the TEAM than he does improving his ENJOYMENT of the team.

Tyrod is every bit as bad as Joe Fo Sho has described. Both in terms of his accuracy and his lack of information processing speed. If you take away the first Bills drive against Oakland, Tyrod had just 60 pre-garbage time passing yards. Oakland's pass defense is ranked in the 20s. Having Tyrod at QB means that a team is simply going to squander many of the pass completion opportunities which will exist over the course of a game. In order to win games despite those wasted passing opportunities, it's necessary for a team to have a very good running game--which, I might add, we have--and a very good defense.

A standard-issue Super Bowl champion has a franchise QB, or at least has a QB who's temporarily playing at or near a franchise level. In addition, this standard-issue Super Bowl winner will have done a fairly workmanlike job of surrounding that QB with a good, complete team. Are there exceptions to that rule? Yes there are. The Ravens of 2000 come to mind. You are also correct to assert that the Broncos won the Super Bowl despite receiving disappointing play from the QB position. Examples like that, however are rare. There is no reason for us to hold on either to Tyrod or the GM who bungled the Bills' QB situation so badly in the first place, in the vain hope that this will somehow produce the next Ravens of 2000. A hope like that would be based entirely on wishful thinking, not on any realistic analysis of what the Bills actually have either at QB or in their front office.

Tyrod Taylor is merely the symptom. The root of the problem is Doug Whaley. Replace Whaley with a real GM, and sooner or later that real GM will acquire a real QB. Leave our inadequate GM in place, and we will continue to receive mediocre play from our collection of mediocre QBs. It really is that simple.

[ICRockets]

Tyrod is every bit as bad as Joe Fo Sho has described. Both in terms of his accuracy and his lack of information processing speed. If you take away the first Bills drive against Oakland, Tyrod had just 60 pre-garbage time passing yards. Oakland's pass defense is ranked in the 20s. Having Tyrod at QB means that a team is simply going to squander many of the pass completion opportunities which will exist over the course of a game. In order to win games despite those wasted passing opportunities, it's necessary for a team to have a very good running game--which, I might add, we have--and a very good defense.

A standard-issue Super Bowl champion has a franchise QB, or at least has a QB who's temporarily playing at or near a franchise level. In addition, this standard-issue Super Bowl winner will have done a fairly workmanlike job of surrounding that QB with a good, complete team. Are there exceptions to that rule? Yes there are. The Ravens of 2000 come to mind. You are also correct to assert that the Broncos won the Super Bowl despite receiving disappointing play from the QB position. Examples like that, however are rare. There is no reason for us to hold on either to Tyrod or the GM who bungled the Bills' QB situation so badly in the first place, in the vain hope that this will somehow produce the next Ravens of 2000. A hope like that would be based entirely on wishful thinking, not on any realistic analysis of what the Bills actually have either at QB or in their front office.

Tyrod Taylor is merely the symptom. The root of the problem is Doug Whaley. Replace Whaley with a real GM, and sooner or later that real GM will acquire a real QB. Leave our inadequate GM in place, and we will continue to receive mediocre play from our collection of mediocre QBs. It really is that simple.

I'm not AS down on Whaley as a lot of people are, but I'm not opposed to an upgrade in the front office as well as on the sidelines. And you're right, what I'm advocating for is a non-traditional path to the Super Bowl. But given the current composition of our team, I think it's the path of least resistance right now. The resources we would have to spend on a new QB this offseason are not insignificant, unless we want to try to win the lottery in the 3rd or 4th round. And if that's our goal, then we aren't drafting them to start right away, even if we see guys like Russell and Dak succeed instantly from such a spot. They both did so unexpectedly, as exceptions to the rule. If the argument is that we need to replace Tyrod before next season, that translates to drafting a QB in the FIRST round, and if we want to do so correctly then we need to sacrifice multiple draft picks to take THE BEST first round QB in the draft. This team has too many pressing needs at other positions to reasonably afford that kind of commitment to a mystery and still make the argument that we've improved the team enough to be primed for a playoff run.

[TacklingDummy]

How many games this season has TT had zero TD passes ?

He's had about 5 good drives all year.

[jamze132]

How hard can it be to replace a guy who averages about 200 yds a gm , can see over the middle , is inconsistent with short and intermediate passes, has 5 gms this season with zero passing tds .and will never carry a team on his own.
Seriously...everytime I examine his games there are more negatives than positives. He won't get better and he doesn't make anyone around him better. He's actually wasting the talents of some decent recievers.

The problem with your example is that Tyrod isn't a turnover machine like past Bills QBs have been. Tyrod also is the best scrambling RB the NFL has to offer as we speak. That's why he can't be instantly replaced.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The problem with your example is that Tyrod isn't a turnover machine like past Bills QBs have been. Tyrod also is the best scrambling RB the NFL has to offer as we speak. That's why he can't be instantly replaced.

I don't want to replace his scrambling ability, I want to replace his quarterbacking ability. That is much easier to replace.

[Joe Fo Sho]

When did Kyle Orton throw for 300 yards? If memory serves, we haven't had one in close to a decade.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif

[ICRockets]

I don't want to replace his scrambling ability, I want to replace his quarterbacking ability. That is much easier to replace.

Then why haven't you been able to name someone you're actually in favor of signing or drafting to do so?

[Joe Fo Sho]

I'm advocating for intelligent change

You're not advocating for change at all. You're advocating for the same ol' same ol'. Which is exactly what someone hoping to continue the playoff drought would wish for.


I'd rather spend our resources improving our defense, giving Tyrod more weapons, and hiring a coach who doesn't look like he's smelling mystery farts every time the camera cuts to him on the sideline during games.

Great! A new coach/GM will surely realize that Tyrod is going nowhere and will absolutely try to improve upon the most important position in all of professional team sports.

[ICRockets]

You're not advocating for change at all.


If you need to lie to make your point, your point is- to cop your term- dog ****.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Then why haven't you been able to name someone you're actually in favor of signing or drafting to do so?

A top rookie
Cardale
Romo
Daniel
Glennon
Cutler
Bradford

[ICRockets]

A top rookie
Cardale
Romo
Daniel
Glennon
Cutler
Bradford

You've already said you don't think Cutler is the answer.

If Sam Bradford were a reliable quarterback, he wouldn't have already alienated all 3 fanbases he's played for.

Who the **** is "Daniel"?

"A Top Rookie" is not an answer to "NAME a quarterback who would help us win more than Tyrod Taylor does"

Mike Glennon? That's one of the stupidest suggestions I've ever heard.

We've already gone over the impracticality of Tony Romo as a replacement for Tyrod.

That leaves us with Cardale Jones, who is already on the roster, and as such does not represent "change" in any way, shape, or form. He's already part of our future. Pushing him into action before he can win the job on his own merit is a mistake, in my opinion.

[BertSquirtgum]

You've already said you don't think Cutler is the answer.

If Sam Bradford were a reliable quarterback, he wouldn't have already alienated all 3 fanbases he's played for.

Who the **** is "Daniel"?

"A Top Rookie" is not an answer to "NAME a quarterback who would help us win more than Tyrod Taylor does"

Mike Glennon? That's one of the stupidest suggestions I've ever heard.

We've already gone over the impracticality of Tony Romo as a replacement for Tyrod.

That leaves us with Cardale Jones, who is already on the roster, and as such does not represent "change" in any way, shape, or form. He's already part of our future. Pushing him into action before he can win the job on his own merit is a mistake, in my opinion.
Chase Daniel and the Bills should trade for Tony Romo because Tyrod Taylor sucks and will never be good.

[swiper]

Nice of the mods to delete my posts. Lit is that you? Yet you let the fat bipolar troll ramble on with this stupidiy.

- - - Updated - - -

Nice of the mods to delete my posts. Lit is that you? Yet you let the fat bipolar troll ramble on with this stupidiy.

[ICRockets]

Chase Daniel and the Bills should trade for Tony Romo because Tyrod Taylor sucks and will never be good.

Chase Daniel is a totally unknown entity. You would think, if there were teams in the NFL who thought he could be a starter, that he wouldn't have signed a backup deal with the Eagles this offseason. The fact that he's on Joe's list is just further proof that he's not advocating for IMPROVING the Bills, he's advocating for making them DIFFERENT so he can personally stop being a mopey crybaby on Sundays.

[Arm of Harm]

I'm not AS down on Whaley as a lot of people are, but I'm not opposed to an upgrade in the front office as well as on the sidelines. And you're right, what I'm advocating for is a non-traditional path to the Super Bowl. But given the current composition of our team, I think it's the path of least resistance right now. The resources we would have to spend on a new QB this offseason are not insignificant, unless we want to try to win the lottery in the 3rd or 4th round. And if that's our goal, then we aren't drafting them to start right away, even if we see guys like Russell and Dak succeed instantly from such a spot. They both did so unexpectedly, as exceptions to the rule. If the argument is that we need to replace Tyrod before next season, that translates to drafting a QB in the FIRST round, and if we want to do so correctly then we need to sacrifice multiple draft picks to take THE BEST first round QB in the draft. This team has too many pressing needs at other positions to reasonably afford that kind of commitment to a mystery and still make the argument that we've improved the team enough to be primed for a playoff run.


If a team wants to win a Super Bowl without a good passing game, it needs an elite defense. Not just a "good" defense, or even a top-5 defense. The defense needs to be elite, special. Like the Ravens of 2000 or the defense the Broncos had last year.

The Ravens of 2000 achieved that elite defense by acquiring an insane amount of player talent. The coaching was rather vanilla, because there was no need to resort to trickery when each defensive player could be trusted to dominate his offensive counterpart. Each of the Ravens' defensive linemen was good enough to justify double teaming him. At LB the Ravens had Ray Lewis, and had two other excellent starting linebackers to go along with him. Both their starting CBs were first round picks, and they had Ed Reed at safety. It's very difficult to find anyone on that defense who failed to play at or near a Pro Bowl level. One downside to building a defense like that is that it's hard to maintain for any length of time, due to the salary cap.

Denver also acquired plenty of defensive talent, albeit significantly less defensive talent than the Ravens of 2000 had. But Wade Phillips is a top shelf defensive coach. You combine Denver's defensive talent--especially at a few key positions--with Wade's exceptional coaching, and the result is an elite defense capable of carrying a team to a Super Bowl win.

If the Bills want an elite defense, they need to either follow the Ravens of 2000 model (elite player talent with vanilla coaching) or the Denver model (good, solid player talent with elite defensive coaching). Several of our key defensive players are on inexpensive, one year contracts. Once those contracts end at the end of the season, the price tags for those players will go up a lot. Simply maintaining our existing talent level on defense will be difficult due to the salary cap. Rivaling the level of defensive talent that the Ravens of 2000 had is not a realistic goal for next season, or even for two seasons from now.

The other way to build an elite defense would be to sign a truly elite defensive coach, put him in charge of our defense and our defensive scheme, and do our best to listen/get him what he wants in terms of the two or three most important player acquisitions he requests. Note that this process was not instantaneous with Denver: von Miller was a member of the Broncos for five years before he hoisted the Lombardi Trophy. Much of the Bills' defensive talent is aging (Kyle Williams), unreliable (Marcel Dareus), or in need of an upgrade (most members of our secondary). We don't have very many von Miller-like building block players.

Even if we did, acquiring the elite defensive coach I described would be a non-trivial task. I'm not saying it can't be done, and we'll see what opportunities for that exist after the season. But there are few if any guys like that floating around in a typical off-season. The opportunity to sign a Wade Phillips as your defensive coordinator is (almost) as rare as the chance to sign a Drew Brees-caliber QB as a free agent.

A few years ago I looked at the ten most recent Super Bowl winners. Nine of them had franchise QBs, or else QBs who had played at a franchise level in the postseason. The tenth was the Tampa Bay Buccaneers of 2002. The Tampa Bay Bucs model is not a realistic one for us to pursue, at least not with Tyrod Taylor as QB. Taylor isn't in the same category as Brad Johnson--especially not the level of play Johnson achieved in 2002. Of the past 15 Super Bowl winners, only two (the Ravens of 2000 and the Broncos of 2015) won the Super Bowl while receiving QB play as bad as Tyrod's. That's just 13.3% of recent Super Bowl winners. Even if you achieve that elite defense--which itself is a non-trivial task--the Bills would still likely face a postseason loss to a team with a real QB, or to a team that's pursuing the same, "win despite the QB" strategy the Bills would be pursuing.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You've already said you don't think Cutler is the answer.

He's better than Tyrod.


If Sam Bradford were a reliable quarterback, he wouldn't have already alienated all 3 fanbases he's played for.

He's better than Tyrod.


Who the **** is "Daniel"?

Chase Daniel. He's might be better than Tyrod.


"A Top Rookie" is not an answer to "NAME a quarterback who would help us win more than Tyrod Taylor does"

A top rookie could be better than Tyrod.


Mike Glennon? That's one of the stupidest suggestions I've ever heard.

It's not as dumb as wanting to keep Tyrod. Glennon will be cheaper and allow us to use Tyrod's designated resources on improvements elsewhere.


We've already gone over the impracticality of Tony Romo as a replacement for Tyrod.

The risk/reward is better than keeping Tyrod.


That leaves us with Cardale Jones, who is already on the roster, and as such does not represent "change" in any way, shape, or form. He's already part of our future. Pushing him into action before he can win the job on his own merit is a mistake, in my opinion.

Starting Cardale doesn't represent change? What ****ing tree do you live in?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Chase Daniel is a totally unknown entity. You would think, if there were teams in the NFL who thought he could be a starter, that he wouldn't have signed a backup deal with the Eagles this offseason. The fact that he's on Joe's list is just further proof that he's not advocating for IMPROVING the Bills, he's advocating for making them DIFFERENT so he can personally stop being a mopey crybaby on Sundays.

This is so ignorant. What about rookies? Don't they represent unknown entities? Does drafting a rookie not advocate for any sort of improvement? Drafting Peyton must have been a terrible idea for the Colts because they were just looking for something different, not something better, huh?

Why are you calling me a mopey crybaby? Do you think I just gave up on the Bills? I'm going to the game on Sunday and I'll be there on Christmas Eve against the Dolphins rooting them on. You should really take my advice and go s*** in your ****ing hat.

[DesertFox24]

Tyrod is not good enough to win games. Rex Ryan and his coaching philosophy does not work in the bs NFL of today. We need to move on but we will not.

We will draft a safety and corner high this year maybe another pass rush and then on Saturday will draft some WRs. We will be 500 team plus minus one game for the next 3 years.

[cookie G]

Show of hands....how many complaining in this thread want to take a safety this year with the top pick?

How many wanted to take a one armed DE last year, because he "fit the system"?

[TacklingDummy]

Show of hands....how many complaining in this thread want to take a safety this year with the top pick?

How many wanted to take a one armed DE last year, because he "fit the system"?

No to both.

[ICRockets]

Show of hands....how many complaining in this thread want to take a safety this year with the top pick?

How many wanted to take a one armed DE last year, because he "fit the system"?
The guy at the top of my board is Jabrill Peppers. I like Shaq Lawson, as well. Missing a handful of games during his rookie season doesn't bother me. I think Lawson and Ragland are going to be huge contributors to our defense next season and beyond, assuming we get a head coach in here that isn't a ****ing moron.

[ICRockets]

Woods and Watkins both active today, and I assume Clay will be in the lineup as well. This is going to be a very important game for Tyrod. Or, it would be if Bills fans weren't idiots who have already made up their minds against him.

[WagonCircler]

I wish there was a GM draft.

[justasportsfan]

Tyrod just missed or didn't throw to an open receiver in the end zone.

[WagonCircler]

Woods and Watkins both active today, and I assume Clay will be in the lineup as well. This is going to be a very important game for Tyrod. Or, it would be if Bills fans weren't idiots who have already made up their minds against him.

So, how'd all that go?

[Bill Cody]

Woods and Watkins both active today, and I assume Clay will be in the lineup as well. This is going to be a very important game for Tyrod. Or, it would be if Bills fans weren't idiots who have already made up their minds against him.

Lol

[justasportsfan]

So, how'd all that go?

It went well when the steelers played prevent

[Joe Fo Sho]

Woods and Watkins both active today, and I assume Clay will be in the lineup as well. This is going to be a very important game for Tyrod. Or, it would be if Bills fans weren't idiots who have already made up their minds against him.

What's your excuse for Tyrod today?

[ICRockets]

What's your excuse for Tyrod today?
Why would I make excuses for that performance?

[justasportsfan]

Why would I make excuses for that performance?

Was it even interesting? I wanted Tyrod to light it up so I could.rub it in with relatives who are pitts fans. Instead , we're bueeying pur head in the sand once again . While it wasnt Tyrods fault the D stunk, he didnt do his.part either.

Time to move on. After 5 years in the league he's still a project.

[ICRockets]

Was it even interesting? I wanted Tyrod to light it up so I could.rub it in with relatives who are pitts fans. Instead , we're bueeying pur head in the sand once again . While it wasnt Tyrods fault the D stunk, he didnt do his.part either.

Time to move on. After 5 years in the league he's still a project.
After that game, if the consensus is to give Cardale a chance then I think you have to give Cardale a chance. Personally, I'd rather not throw him to the wolves with Rex Ryan as his coach. But if the Bills disagree, I wouldn't provide much pushback after that game.

[justasportsfan]

After that game, if the consensus is to give Cardale a chance then I think you have to give Cardale a chance. Personally, I'd rather not throw him to the wolves with Rex Ryan as his coach. But if the Bills disagree, I wouldn't provide much pushback after that game.

Dak , Wilson , Wentz were thrown to the wolves. As long as you're not asking him to carry the team we can ask him to hand the ball off and see if he can throw up the middle from time to time.

[Mace]

Dak , Wilson , Wentz were thrown to the wolves. As long as you're not asking him to carry the team we can ask him to hand the ball off and see if he can throw up the middle from time to time.

I'm not a big fan of unprepared guys getting thrown to the wolves, Wilson, Wentz, Prescott were more polished. But like I mentioned in another thread, Cardale doesn't seem like the kind of QB who will have potential development dented with a loss of confidence. Maybe that perceived resilience is an asset and spurs development.

[YardRat]

Cardale, if Wrecks does get canned and he does get to play, hopefully realizes that he's playing with house money and should let 'er rip.

[Mace]

Cardale, if Wrecks does get canned and he does get to play, hopefully realizes that he's playing with house money and should let 'er rip.

Have no clue how well it works, but he strikes me as a guy who can't help doing so for better or worse.

[mdcas22]

Was it even interesting? I wanted Tyrod to light it up so I could.rub it in with relatives who are pitts fans. Instead , we're bueeying pur head in the sand once again . While it wasnt Tyrods fault the D stunk, he didnt do his.part either.

Time to move on. After 5 years in the league he's still a project.

going into the 4th quarter TT had around 70 yards passing, he ended up with a little over 200 yds with 2 TD's 1 int. if you looked at just the stats you would think he played alright yet he really played bad again.

[TacklingDummy]

I just wish the Pick 6 counted.

[Mr. Pink]

Why would I make excuses for that performance?

That performance was no different than the majority of his performances, that's why Joe asked.

[ICRockets]

Dak , Wilson , Wentz were thrown to the wolves. As long as you're not asking him to carry the team we can ask him to hand the ball off and see if he can throw up the middle from time to time.

You mean like Tyrod did for a touchdown yesterday?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Why would I make excuses for that performance?

I don't know, maybe the same reason you've been doing it for Tyrod up until Saturday?

[Joe Fo Sho]

After that game, if the consensus is to give Cardale a chance then I think you have to give Cardale a chance. Personally, I'd rather not throw him to the wolves with Rex Ryan as his coach. But if the Bills disagree, I wouldn't provide much pushback after that game.

Why would you want to give Cardale a chance?? He's an unknown, right? Which means that inserting him in the lineup would not be advocating for making the team better, just different, like you said earlier.

[ICRockets]

Why would you want to give Cardale a chance?? He's an unknown, right? Which means that inserting him in the lineup would not be advocating for making the team better, just different, like you said earlier.

It's adorable that you think you can "gotcha" me! I should stick around this forum just to embarrass you intellectually every chance I get.

[ICRockets]

I don't know, maybe the same reason you've been doing it for Tyrod up until Saturday?
I had a very specific argument up until Saturday. Care to recall what that argument was, and why it doesn't apply to the Steelers game?

[Joe Fo Sho]

I had a very specific argument up until Saturday. Care to recall what that argument was, and why it doesn't apply to the Steelers game?

Well, here's your 1st post in this thread..


Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end. Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.

[ICRockets]

Well, here's your 1st post in this thread..

I guess I don't actually have to stick around for you to look stupid. You're gonna do just fine on your own, in that regard.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I guess I don't actually have to stick around for you to look stupid. You're gonna do just fine on your own, in that regard.

I can't possibly look as stupid as someone who is hoping to keep Tyrod around for another season.

[justasportsfan]

You mean like Tyrod did for a touchdown yesterday?

I meant time to time in a game. Not in a season. Not once in a blue moon.

[Joe Fo Sho]

How many fedoras do you think this guy owns?


Every time I see people trash Tyrod around here, it makes me hope less and less for the drought to end.


Bills fans are cancer, and don't deserve to see our team succeed.


All of those (Tyrod's) issues are coachable and trainable.


My issue isn't with people who disagree with me about Tyrod. It's with the gall they have to suggest that we can honestly dismiss Tyrod's future potential...


Newsflash: There are 32 teams in the NFL.


You know how ****ing stupid some of our fellow posters are


Tyrod has the contract he has.


But right now we simply cannot confidently say that's how it's going to end, and even if it does I'm not about to give anybody who predicted it the credit they think they'll deserve.


If you think Tyrod Taylor is dog ****, you're a complete ****ing idiot.


A team with a terrible QB JUST WON THE SUPER BOWL LAST SEASON.


What progress can you reasonably expect him to make when he has not played a single game with more than 1 competent and healthy receiver on the field at any given time?


might it actually be kind of difficult to replace Tyrod?


We don't know enough about Tyrod to make an informed decision about which feasible replacements would be improvements.


There's absolutely zero argument rooted in reality that says Tyrod Taylor is a boring football player.


Not that Tyrod is definitely good enough, but that we DO NOT KNOW EITHER WAY


This is like arguing with Christians who ARE CERTAIN that God exists.


He was ACC Player of the Year in 2010, so if he is who he was in college that means he has AFC Offensive POTY potential.


...he has not lined up with Sammy/Woods/Clay/Shady at all this entire season....For all we know, if he has all of those players healthy at his disposal with competent and experienced NFL passing offense coaches, he could run an elite offense.


When did Kyle Orton throw for 300 yards? If memory serves, we haven't had one in close to a decade.


Woods and Watkins both active today, and I assume Clay will be in the lineup as well. This is going to be a very important game for Tyrod.


Why would I make excuses for that performance?

[Bill Cody]

I had a very specific argument up until Saturday.

So one game was all you needed to see the guy most of us have been watching all year? Or is the jury still out on Tyrod?

[ICRockets]

So one game was all you needed to see the guy most of us have been watching all year? Or is the jury still out on Tyrod?

I personally think the jury is still out, but I established my criteria and it was met in that game. Tyrod had the best chance he's going to have as long as Rex is his coach, and he failed. If he's willing to renegotiate a better contract and stay for about $5 mil and compete for the starting job, I keep him and have him compete with Cardale and whoever else we bring in. Supposing, of course, that we've made changes to the coaching staff.

[justasportsfan]

I personally think the jury is still out, but I established my criteria and it was met in that game.
Low standards?

I expect more fight from someone fighting for his life/job. Not the type of qb I want in the playoffs ,if we make playoffs.




Tyrod had the best chance he's going to have as long as Rex is his coach, and he failed. If he's willing to renegotiate a better contract and stay for about $5 mil and compete for the starting job, I keep him and have him compete with Cardale and whoever else we bring in. Supposing, of course, that we've made changes to the coaching staff.
I'm all for giving him 5 million/year. Back up money.

[The Jokeman]

I personally think the jury is still out, but I established my criteria and it was met in that game. Tyrod had the best chance he's going to have as long as Rex is his coach, and he failed. If he's willing to renegotiate a better contract and stay for about $5 mil and compete for the starting job, I keep him and have him compete with Cardale and whoever else we bring in. Supposing, of course, that we've made changes to the coaching staff.

I can't see Tyrod sticking around instead he'll get cut and sign with Denver as he has a history with Kubiak in Baltimore and he'll likely think he can get a starting job there and in turn more money then sticking around here.

[sdbillsfan2]

I can't see Tyrod sticking around instead he'll get cut and sign with Denver as he has a history with Kubiak in Baltimore and he'll likely think he can get a starting job there and in turn more money then sticking around here.

Very plausible....but John Elway ultimately has the final say. Who knows the strengths and weaknesses of a Qb better than another Qb. Unless he's to be a gadget Qb or strictly Part time and situational ..I dont see it. I know he had some interest at one point but that was before TT shot himself in the foot.

[Bill Cody]

I personally think the jury is still out, but I established my criteria and it was met in that game. Tyrod had the best chance he's going to have as long as Rex is his coach, and he failed. If he's willing to renegotiate a better contract and stay for about $5 mil and compete for the starting job, I keep him and have him compete with Cardale and whoever else we bring in. Supposing, of course, that we've made changes to the coaching staff.

Your criteria is weird and inconsistent. You spent a lot of this thread calling people idiots for drawing conclusions about TT based on 26 games but now after game 27 he's worth back up money or nothing. Which infers that if TT had had a good game Sunday he'd be worth a long term deal. Utter nonsense.

[stuckincincy]

Your criteria is weird and inconsistent. You spent a lot of this thread calling people idiots for drawing conclusions about TT based on 26 games but now after game 27 he's worth back up money or nothing. Which infers that if TT had had a good game Sunday he'd be worth a long term deal. Utter nonsense.

Yes. I admire Taylor for giving what he has, but he just doesn't have the eye for the field. He has the arm to be successful, but seemingly can't quickly pick up receivers while behind his own OL. He reminds me a bit of Jon Kitna, who had guts and smarts but couldn't overcome the fact that he had smallish hands.

[X-Era]

Still today I'd rather keep Tyrod at his 20th ranked cap hit next year and add a mid round draft pick. I don't want to start from square one. Screw that.

Let Rex go. Go to the Spread or at least a more balanced attack and let it play itself out in TC with Tyrod, Cardale, and the draftee.

[Mr. Pink]

And go 7-9 while saddled with one of the worst QBs in the league for 2 years while paying him an idiotic amount of money. Hell, EJ could lead this team to 7-9 at a quarter of the cost.

Great plan.

When are you changing your name to Tyrod-Era?

[Mace]

Go to the Spread or at least a more balanced attack and let it play itself out

Heh. The spread is a passing offense, so you want to keep him for what he does worst.

[Mace]

Very plausible....but John Elway ultimately has the final say. Who knows the strengths and weaknesses of a Qb better than another Qb. Unless he's to be a gadget Qb or strictly Part time and situational ..I dont see it. I know he had some interest at one point but that was before TT shot himself in the foot.

I don't see Elway wanting a QB who is an inadequate passer.

[justasportsfan]

Matt Moore 12/18 236 yds. 4 tds.

Takes Tyrod more than 30 attempts to get 230+ yards

[justasportsfan]

Still today I'd rather keep Tyrod at his 20th ranked cap hit next year and add a mid round draft pick. I don't want to start from square one. Screw that.

Let Rex go. Go to the Spread or at least a more balanced attack and let it play itself out in TC with Tyrod, Cardale, and the draftee.

You don't want to start from square one but stay in 8-8 ish record and no playoffs for eternity.

Sorry, Im not that kind of bills fan

[Novacane]

Matt Moore 12/18 236 yds. 4 tds.

Takes Tyrod more than 30 attempts to get 230+ yards

And four games to get 4 TD passing

[Ingtar33]

Matt Moore 12/18 236 yds. 4 tds.

Tanny going down was the best thing for the fins. Woke their delusional fanbase and management up to what tanny is. A scrub.

[starrymessenger]

I don't see Elway wanting a QB who is an inadequate passer.
And besides personally I think TS is less inadequate as a passer than Tyrod is.
I do wonder what Kubiak was thinking though. Did he really think Tyrod would make productive use of ES, DT et al?
If he did thnk that I wonder if he still does.

[swiper]

I don't see Elway wanting a QB who is an inadequate passer.

Right. I see Kubiak knowing Tyrod will see Denver AVOIDING him because they know all of his deficiencies. And, as has been said, Elway is looking for a Ben Roslisberger not a Tyrod Taylor.

[The Jokeman]

And besides personally I think TS is less inadequate as a passer than Tyrod is.
I do wonder what Kubiak was thinking though. Did he really think Tyrod would make productive use of ES, DT et al?
If he did thnk that I wonder if he still does.

Maybe he thought Tyrod could learn from Peyton how to read a defense or be a backup.

[BertSquirtgum]

Tyrod smells like Bigfoot's dick.

[X-Era]

Heh. The spread is a passing offense, so you want to keep him for what he does worst.Yes I want to keep him to show everyone that with more weapons and an attack that gets guys actually open he can thrive.

I have no doubt that Tyrod is a solid passer. Injuries, guys being covered, a porous OL at times, and a run heavy scheme that stacks the box hamper him showing what he can do.

[X-Era]

You don't want to start from square one but stay in 8-8 ish record and no playoffs for eternity.

Sorry, Im not that kind of bills fan
Tyrod goes and we have what? Cardale and a draftee.

Tyrod stays and we have Cardale and a draftee.

Either way we have the same situation at QB. Why not keep Tyrod and operate from a position of strength instead of desperation?

[The Jokeman]

Tyrod goes and we have what? Cardale and a draftee.

Tyrod stays and we have Cardale and a draftee.

Either way we have the same situation at QB. Why not keep Tyrod and operate from a position of strength instead of desperation?

Keeping Tyrod next year also ties his contract to him the following seasons. I mean I understand the thought of keeping him until we find someone better but is it worth sacrificing the cap space on a QB appears to not be the long term answer we've been looking for? Ie Dead man walking syndrome? Personally I'd do the Cardale, draftee and another veteran backup/caretaker QB (see Brian Hoyer as my primary choice) for less money and use the freed up cap space to shore up other positions.

[X-Era]

Keeping Tyrod next year also ties his contract to him the following seasons. I mean I understand the thought of keeping him until we find someone better but is it worth sacrificing the cap space on a QB appears to not be the long term answer we've been looking for? Ie Dead man walking syndrome? Personally I'd do the Cardale, draftee and another veteran backup/caretaker QB (see Brian Hoyer as my primary choice) for less money and use the freed up cap space to shore up other positions.
That version sounds a helluva lot like Holcomb, Trent, Losman, Fitz, Orton. Ewww... No.

[Novacane]

Yes I want to keep him to show everyone that with more weapons and an attack that gets guys actually open he can thrive.

I have no doubt that Tyrod is a solid passer. Injuries, guys being covered, a porous OL at times, and a run heavy scheme that stacks the box hamper him showing what he can do.



This post is such a crock of ****. You have no doubts he's a solid passer based on what? Hope? Because there's plenty of evidence he is not!

Here's some things that are real. 1. There ARE guys open. TT just does not see them or he over throws them when he does! 2. He makes our OL look bad by holding and holding and holding the ball! The sacks stats are more on TT. How many times has he been rolling out and just runs out of bounds for a yard or two loss instead of just tossing it out of bounds? That's just dumb and no excuse for it. 3. QB's that can see open receivers salivate at a stacked box!

The guys a back up. A good back up too but no team is ever going to be better than average with TT as their stater.

[The Jokeman]

That version sounds a helluva lot like Holcomb, Trent, Losman, Fitz, Orton. Ewww... No.

Fitz >Orton > Tyrod > Trent > Losman > Holcomb.

[Novacane]

That version sounds a helluva lot like Holcomb, Trent, Losman, Fitz, Orton, Taylor Ewww... No.

I fixed it for you!

[Joe Fo Sho]

I have no doubt that Tyrod is a solid passer.

Yeeeesh.


guys being covered

I don't think this is as big of a problem as some people think. I see people open on replays all the time while he scrambles out of the pocket only to throw the ball away before he gets run out of bounds. I scream and scream and scream about it, I don't know how he doesn't hear me.


a run heavy scheme that stacks the box hamper him showing what he can do.

Every good QB in the league wishes teams would stack the box against them like they do with Tyrod. Good QBs take advantage of defenses that do this and make them pay. For some reason, Tyrod doesn't.


Why not keep Tyrod and operate from a position of strength instead of desperation?

It's arguable(laughable) that QB would be a position of strength with Tyrod on the roster.

[Joe Fo Sho]

This post is such a crock of ****. You have no doubts he's a solid passer based on what? Hope? Because there's plenty of evidence he is not!

Here's some things that are real. 1. There ARE guys open. TT just does not see them or he over throws them when he does! 2. He makes our OL look bad by holding and holding and holding the ball! The sacks stats are more on TT. How many times has he been rolling out and just runs out of bounds for a yard or two loss instead of just tossing it out of bounds? That's just dumb and no excuse for it. 3. QB's that can see open receivers salivate at a stacked box!

The guys a back up. A good back up too but no team is ever going to be better than average with TT as their stater.

You beat me to it.

[Novacane]

Fitz >Orton > Tyrod > Trent > Losman > Holcomb.



I agree with this! He's not terrible. He's just no better than average. He's better than some of the garbage we've had so let's pay him 27 million. Insanity!

[justasportsfan]

Yes I want to keep him to show everyone that with more weapons and an attack that gets guys actually open he can thrive..
the best Qb's can hit a receiver that isn't open at the time they throw the ball. That isn't Tyrod.



I have no doubt that Tyrod is a solid passer. LOsman like solid in the deep ball. If you think he's solid in short to medium, then your credibility is questionable at best.



Injuries, guys being covered, a porous OL at times, and a run heavy scheme that stacks the box hamper him showing what he can do.


Our OL has been good. Not Dallas great but good. Your using the OL as a scapegoat to support your opinion of Tyrod.

[X-Era]

This post is such a crock of ****. You have no doubts he's a solid passer based on what? Hope? Because there's plenty of evidence he is not!

Here's some things that are real. 1. There ARE guys open. TT just does not see them or he over throws them when he does! 2. He makes our OL look bad by holding and holding and holding the ball! The sacks stats are more on TT. How many times has he been rolling out and just runs out of bounds for a yard or two loss instead of just tossing it out of bounds? That's just dumb and no excuse for it. 3. QB's that can see open receivers salivate at a stacked box!

The guys a back up. A good back up too but no team is ever going to be better than average with TT as their stater.
Yeah no.

He has one of the best long balls in the league. Last year his rating and compl % were very good. This year he has had no starting quality WR's for many of the games he's being judged by. If you think that doesn't make a difference you're nuts.

On top of that, the play calling puts him in bad positions over and over. Our pass attack does not feature multiple wides with quick throws. When Tyrod has decent pass protection, his starters out there, and is asked to throw he moves the ball and has shown he can score. Is he all world? No. Is he best in the league? No.

He's not our problem.

With a 20th ranked cap hit next year, why not add some weapons, bolster the RT spot, and go to a more balanced attack. Tyrod has shown he can play and win in this league.

This plan could make us competitive next year while we continue to try to find that franchise QB.

I dont want to lose the best QB we've had since Bledsoe.

I have no interest in going back to square one to save a 20th ranked starting QB cap hit only to end up back in the Holcomb/Trent/Fitz/Orton/EJ/Losman spin cycle.

At 32 mill under WITH Tyrods cap hit, keep him, add weapons (who will help any QB by the way), add a better RT (Who will help any QB by the way), get a draftee to compete and let the best man win.