College QB question

[trapezeus]

I don't watch a ton of college football during the season. one question I had for the guys who do watch a lot of college football, do college qb's have 2-3 second releases like in the pros, or is that really not common. is that a trait that you have to wait and see who develops at the NFL?

and secondarily, of the top 10 qb's in this upcoming draft class, does anyone stand out as a guy who gets rid of the ball like brady, manning, carr? or are they more like TT looking at one receiver and taking time to throw? I honestly don't have a view, but was curious if someone else on the board had a take on this.

[Night Train]

Re: College QB question

Webb - Cal
Rudolph - Okla St.
Falk - Washington St.


Those are 3 of my favorites - size,arm - Have the NFL look

[YardRat]

Re: College QB question

Depends on the QB, and the system.

One of the reasons I like Chad Kelly is very often he appears to know where he's going with the ball before it's snapped, and to me that's an indication that a kid knows how to read pre-snap defenses.

[Mace]

Re: College QB question

Quick release in college (with the typical spread offense) is deceptive, depends on the reads in the scheme, and the opponents. With minimal options, a QB can shoot faster, against undermanned opponents, the targets are easier to quickly identify.

You often hear younger QB's (Cardale just mentioned this), note when the pro game is slowing down for them. Pro game has more complex defenses and schemes against more talented players operating at a higher level, so the usual QB coming out of college often won't have the same release time as a new pro.

In guys like Carr, Manning, Brady you're seeing experience processing reads, and comfortable pre snap identification of defense from pocket type passers.

So the question might really be, are there guys capable of developing into 2-3 second release pro QB's. Most college QB's work out of the spread and need to get used to using a huddle, going through progressions faster, and working under center.

Now the painful part. Our QB coach is David "Wildcat" Lee, largely known for yes, the Wildcat. He is not known for teaching fundamentals, footwork, mechanics, ...passing expertise. He will be the man to develop a prospect into essentially, Tyrod Taylor. If you dig through the QB's he has coached, and I have before, I don't want to do it again, he has actually developed no passers successfully.

Anyone out there who fits ? Well, they'd better come here mighty polished because they won't be gaining much once they get here, and they'll be running wildcats, read options, and handing off a lot.

[ICRockets]

Re: College QB question

Quick release in college (with the typical spread offense) is deceptive, depends on the reads in the scheme, and the opponents. With minimal options, a QB can shoot faster, against undermanned opponents, the targets are easier to quickly identify.

You often hear younger QB's (Cardale just mentioned this), note when the pro game is slowing down for them. Pro game has more complex defenses and schemes against more talented players operating at a higher level, so the usual QB coming out of college often won't have the same release time as a new pro.

In guys like Carr, Manning, Brady you're seeing experience processing reads, and comfortable pre snap identification of defense from pocket type passers.

So the question might really be, are there guys capable of developing into 2-3 second release pro QB's. Most college QB's work out of the spread and need to get used to using a huddle, going through progressions faster, and working under center.

Now the painful part. Our QB coach is David "Wildcat" Lee, largely known for yes, the Wildcat. He is not known for teaching fundamentals, footwork, mechanics, ...passing expertise. He will be the man to develop a prospect into essentially, Tyrod Taylor. If you dig through the QB's he has coached, and I have before, I don't want to do it again, he has actually developed no passers successfully.

Anyone out there who fits ? Well, they'd better come here mighty polished because they won't be gaining much once they get here, and they'll be running wildcats, read options, and handing off a lot.

Yep. The things Tyrod gets criticized for are the things we don't have a coach on the team to fix. That's why I'm advocating for making changes to the defense, WRs, and coaching staff instead of worrying about the QB position right now. We have Cardale developing behind T-Mobile. Fire Rex, promote Anthony Lynn, and get a passing-oriented OC in here to improve that element of our offense. That seems like the ideal route to me.

The alternative is that we lose Lynn to another team who gives him a head coaching job, and we have to rely on Rex finding a new OC. Does anyone trust him to succeed in such an undertaking?

[Mace]

Re: College QB question

Yep. The things Tyrod gets criticized for are the things we don't have a coach on the team to fix. That's why I'm advocating for making changes to the defense, WRs, and coaching staff instead of worrying about the QB position right now. We have Cardale developing behind T-Mobile. Fire Rex, promote Anthony Lynn, and get a passing-oriented OC in here to improve that element of our offense. That seems like the ideal route to me.

The alternative is that we lose Lynn to another team who gives him a head coaching job, and we have to rely on Rex finding a new OC. Does anyone trust him to succeed in such an undertaking?

The only problem though I wish they'd change staff, scheme, etc, is that they're real unlikely to do it, which leads back to the immediate problem of what to do until. If Lynn goes, Ryan will do like he did in NY, cycle through pliable running game coordinators.

I don't expect Ryan to succeed at much honestly, besides successfully not being booted another year. If Taylor renegotiates, ok. But committing to him just maintains a status quo probably into the next staff.

[Arm of Harm]

Re: College QB question

Yep. The things Tyrod gets criticized for are the things we don't have a coach on the team to fix. That's why I'm advocating for making changes to the defense, WRs, and coaching staff instead of worrying about the QB position right now. We have Cardale developing behind T-Mobile. Fire Rex, promote Anthony Lynn, and get a passing-oriented OC in here to improve that element of our offense. That seems like the ideal route to me.

The alternative is that we lose Lynn to another team who gives him a head coaching job, and we have to rely on Rex finding a new OC. Does anyone trust him to succeed in such an undertaking?

Tyrod's problems and limitations today are the exact same as the problems/limitations he displayed as a college QB. Those problems/limitations are what kept him from being drafted in the first several rounds, and why the pre-draft consensus was that he could not develop into a solid starter.

Basically, Tyrod is the sort of QB who has great physical tools, except for a lack of ideal height. If good coaching was an antidote to a QB's inability to throw the ball accurately or read the field quickly, NFL teams should be all over QBs like that. If the flaws Taylor demonstrated in college were correctable, he should have been drafted several rounds before he was, and he should have attracted considerably more interest in free agency than he did. The fact he didn't receive generous offers after leaving the Ravens, and the fact that he wasn't a first day draft pick, are evidence of a belief that coaching can have only limited value in correcting his flaws.

Let's say that the Bills had the ability to force a trade. To trade away our starter at any one position, in exchange for another team's player at that same position. The single forced trade which would do the most to improve the team would be to trade away Tyrod Taylor for a guy like Derek Carr. That being the case, QB is the one position most in need of improvement.

[Mr. Pink]

Re: College QB question

Thing is most college QBs aren't programmed to take a 3 or 5 step drop and throw.

The good college QBs have more athleticism than a lot of the players on the other side of the line, so they're given free range in a spread offense system to take advantage of the fact they are more physically gifted that the competition. After all the goal of a college team is to win games, get in the bowl game, win a National Championship, get more money for the school, make the boosters happy, etc...

So what you need to do is look between the lines on a lot of these guys to see if placed in situations where they need to make read adjustments at the line or make a quick decision with the football if they can process that information and succeed.

Lamar Jackson is running roughshod all over the NCAA, doing anything he wants, problem is that likely doesn't translate to the NFL where his physical prowess and gifts alone won't be enough.

[trapezeus]

Re: College QB question

Thanks to all in this thread. Very interesting and useful takes on my initial question

[swiper]

Re: College QB question

Webb - Cal
Rudolph - Okla St.
Falk - Washington St.


Those are 3 of my favorites - size,arm - Have the NFL look

How does Ryan Higgins compare with that group?

[The Jokeman]

Re: College QB question

Yep. The things Tyrod gets criticized for are the things we don't have a coach on the team to fix. That's why I'm advocating for making changes to the defense, WRs, and coaching staff instead of worrying about the QB position right now. We have Cardale developing behind T-Mobile. Fire Rex, promote Anthony Lynn, and get a passing-oriented OC in here to improve that element of our offense. That seems like the ideal route to me.

The alternative is that we lose Lynn to another team who gives him a head coaching job, and we have to rely on Rex finding a new OC. Does anyone trust him to succeed in such an undertaking?

You must be forgetting that we have a passing guru in the coaching staff. It's none other then Chris Palmer. It's debatable how good be is but he has worked with QBs like Flutie in the USFL and Brunell in the NFL as well as pocket passers like Bledsoe, David Carr and Tim Couch.

[justasportsfan]

Re: College QB question

You must be forgetting that we have a passing guru in the coaching staff. It's none other then Chris Palmer.

That makes Tyrod look worse if Palmer is a guru. Cant fix Tyrod I guess

[ICRockets]

Re: College QB question

That makes Tyrod look worse if Palmer is a guru. Cant fix Tyrod I guess

"worked with David Carr and Tim Couch"

I'm assuming Jokeman is being sarcastic when he praises Palmer.

[The Jokeman]

Re: College QB question

"worked with David Carr and Tim Couch"

I'm assuming Jokeman is being sarcastic when he praises Palmer.

It was a tongue in cheek joke yes but Palmer has worked closely with Lynn since he became the OC. I wouldn't be shocked if Lynn stays that Palmer is named QB coach or OC.

[Mace]

Re: College QB question

It was a tongue in cheek joke yes but Palmer has worked closely with Lynn since he became the OC. I wouldn't be shocked if Lynn stays that Palmer is named QB coach or OC.

Not real sure where you see Palmer's imprint besides that he followed Roman from SF. He's worked more with pocket passers and early run and shoot.

I think I see Wildcat Lee's handprints all over everything more extensively.