This is strong language. A reporter doesn't say this if it isn't so.

[Jimkelly12203]

Discuss...

At this point, Rex Ryan can do little more than shake hands with his players and thank the Bills for putting $27.5 million in his pocket before heading for the door. Owners Terry and Kim Pegula have decided to fire their head coach. It’s no longer a question of whether Ryan will get the heave ho, but when.
Reports circulating Sunday that he would be sent packing Monday were consistent with talk swirling around the organization in recent days. Once source said the Bills would have actually finished the season with four straight victories and a 10-6 record, and he still would have been canned. It's time end the misery for everyone.
The Steelers’ 27-20 victory Sunday at New Era Field figured to only speed up the inevitable for Ryan, who is now five games under .500 as a head coach. He rallied the masses while running his mouth about his defense and insisting the Bills would ground-and-pound their way to success. The Steelers showed him how it’s done.
It was fitting, indeed.
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Offensive coordinator Anthony Lynn, who was thrust into the role of calling plays after Greg Roman was fired in Week Three, will serve as the interim coach and will likely be offered the job next season. He has been a finalist for several coaching positions and impressed the Pegulas with his work this season.
GM Doug Whaley will remain in his post. He and Ryan had a fractured relationship during their short time together. Whaley believed he assembled a roster that should have produced better results. The defense in particular has been a disappointment under Ryan, who supposedly was a defensive whiz.
Ryan’s teams were marked by a general lack of discipline, which was a clear sign he ran a loose ship. They crumbled under pressure. His overall incompetence encouraged the Pegulas to make a change.
Among the final straws was Ryan not knowing, and later failing to communicate, tight end Charles Clay’s plans to stay home from Oakland for the birth of his child.
Ryan’s biggest crime, however, was being a phony. In Buffalo, it’s a felony punishable until eternity. People around here take pride in their honesty, in some cases brutal honesty. Ryan provided endless drivel. He spewed nonsense when he arrived and never really stopped.
The Bills have no intentions of bringing back quarterback Tyrod Taylor, who signed a five-year contract extension worth $90 million during training camp. The Bills had escape clauses after the first and second years of the new deal. It would cost them $27.5 million to keep him for next season alone.
So here we go again, with another coaching change and another chapter in their long and fruitless search for a franchise quarterback. They’re headed for a 17th consecutive season in which they missed the playoffs. The names have changed numerous times over the years, but the results are basically the same.
Lynn could be a fine decision, but it’s difficult to have faith in him when you have little faith in people who are making the decisions. President Russ Brandon had has a hand in every major decision during the playoff drought. Whaley has several poor personnel decisions on his record.
With reports flying before the game that Ryan could be fired as early as Monday, the Bills didn’t exactly rally around their embattled coach. The Steelers bullied – remember that word? – the Bills all afternoon on both sides of the ball and handed Buffalo its second straight defeat. The game wasn't nearly as close as the score indicated.
The Steelers were sloppy against a sloppier Buffalo team in sloppy conditions before asserting themselves early in the third quarter. They inserted an extra tackle along the offensive line and manhandled the Bills’ front seven while running the ball down their collective throats.
Le’Veon Bell carried the ball seven straight times and eight in all during a nine-play drive that ended with him waltzing into the end zone for a 21-7 lead. Bell finished with a career-high 236 yards rushing, and 298 yards from scrimmage, both the most ever against a Buffalo defense. Bell also had three touchdowns in his fourth straight 100-yard game.
At times, he brought new meaning to “carrying the defense.”
Pittsburgh had 195 yards when Bell gave the Steelers a 14-0 lead in the second quarter. At that point, Buffalo had minus-1 total yards. The Bills were a team going backward in another season gone awry. Taylor was sacked three times and had minus-14 passing yards before he completed his first pass in the second quarter. And then he was sacked again. Ben Roethlisberger actually had more completions to the Bills than Taylor had after his second interception in the second quarter.



http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/11/bucky-gleasons-hot-read-ryans-fate-sealed-another-loss/

[YardRat]

:clap:

[WagonCircler]

Well, I guess I'll need to find a hobby for Sundays next Fall.

Can't root for a team stupid enough to keep Doug Whaley. Can't root for a team that thinks Cardale Jones is the answer at QB. After thinking that EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor were the answer.

This ****ing blows.

[Novacane]

If this is true then do it now.

[Jimkelly12203]

Well, I guess I'll need to find a hobby for Sundays next Fall.

Can't root for a team stupid enough to keep Doug Whaley. Can't root for a team that thinks Cardale Jones is the answer at QB. After thinking that EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor were the answer.

This ****ing blows.

Right there with you brother. It's a bad joke!

[Mace]

Kind of funny no one is stepping up to defend the continuity for Rex. I think everyone is about sick of him by now.

Like, so what if we suck, at least we won't suck with Rex Ryan, get him out of here.

[Arm of Harm]

Assuming this report is accurate, it's terrible news and undermines my faith in the Pegulas' ability to build a winning football team. Firing Rex Ryan is an obvious move that requires no elaboration. But keeping Doug Whaley? Seriously? Elevating Anthony Lynn to head coach after this season, after less than a year as offensive coordinator? Don't you think it would make sense to, you know, maybe look outside the building first, to see if there's a guy on some other team more qualified than that?

Assuming the article is accurate, it's clear the Pegulas don't have a clue as to how to turn the Bills into a winning football team.

[justasportsfan]

Well, I guess I'll need to find a hobby for Sundays next Fall.

Can't root for a team stupid enough to keep Doug Whaley. Can't root for a team that thinks Cardale Jones is the answer at QB. After thinking that EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor were the answer.

This ****ing blows.

Who said Cardale is the answer or any of the guys you mentioned were?

[YardRat]

Assuming this report is accurate, it's terrible news and undermines my faith in the Pegulas' ability to build a winning football team. Firing Rex Ryan is an obvious move that requires no elaboration. But keeping Doug Whaley? Seriously? Elevating Anthony Lynn to head coach after this season, after less than a year as offensive coordinator? Don't you think it would make sense to, you know, maybe look outside the building first, to see if there's a guy on some other team more qualified than that?

Assuming the article is accurate, it's clear the Pegulas don't have a clue as to how to turn the Bills into a winning football team.

Hiring Wrecks to begin with should have clued you in on that.

[Arm of Harm]

Hiring Wrecks to begin with should have clued you in on that.

Point taken. I was certainly discouraged by the Rex hire. But I told myself that the Pegulas were new to owning a football team. It was unrealistic to expect them to be hyper-competent owners right away. Give them time, I told myself, and sooner or later they'll learn the ropes.

Who knows? Maybe they still will. But thus far I'm not seeing any improvement (from a football competence standpoint) over the ownership Ralph provided.

[djjimkelly]

i didnt see cardale jones mentioned in that article


there is NO WAY anyopone thinks jones is the answer

[Mace]

i didnt see cardale jones mentioned in that article


there is NO WAY anyopone thinks jones is the answer

Not so sure anyone thinks Jones is the answer so much as Taylor clearly isn't, so roll the dice.

[WagonCircler]

Who said Cardale is the answer or any of the guys you mentioned were?

Whaley, when he drafted him. When he drafted and signed the other two. And when he failed to draft even one other QB during his tenure here.

It's all over the news and radio that this latest power play is over Rex's wanting to stick with Tyrod and Whaley wanting to play Jones. It's like killing yourself by hanging or by jumping out a window. Both end the same way.

[coastal]

And Russ is like Wall Street.. playing the sides against each other while we get the crap sandwich either way... and gets to keep power.

[justasportsfan]

Whaley, when he drafted him. When he drafted and signed the other two. And when he failed to draft even one other QB during his tenure here.

It's all over the news and radio that this latest power play is over Rex's wanting to stick with Tyrod and Whaley wanting to play Jones. It's like killing yourself by hanging or by jumping out a window. Both end the same way.

Sorry , I missed the part when Whaley said we're drafting the answer in the 4th rd. in Jones.

I also failed to see where he thought Tyrod was the answer when Whaley signed him to a 2 year deal which is way below average starting salary when we brought him in.

As for EJ , he was Nixs pick and Whaleys answer as you claim him to be isnt coming back next year after being downgraded to back up all these years.

[WagonCircler]

Sorry , I missed the part when Whaley said we're drafting the answer in the 4th rd. in Jones.

I also failed to see where he thought Tyrod was the answer when Whaley signed him to a 2 year deal which is way below average starting salary when we brought him in.

As for EJ , he was Nixs pick and Whaleys answer as you claim him to be isnt coming back next year after being downgraded to back up all these years.

Ok, then exactly what DID Doug Whaley see as the answer?

The fact is, he's as clueless as you are.

Neither of you have any answers.

And Whaley sold the EJ pick to Nix. Everybody knows that.

[coastal]

The pegulas are idiots that got lucky with fracking

[Jimkelly12203]

The reason they will start Cardale (the primary reason anyway) is to avoid the disaster that would ensue if Taylor played and got hurt. There is a clause in his deal that states that we MUST pick up his option in the event that he has a season ending injury. They're not going to risk that and neither would I because Taylor is not good at all.

So we will get Cardale and/or EJ but not Taylor to avoid a catastrophe.

[The Jokeman]

Ok, then exactly what DID Doug Whaley see as the answer?

The fact is, he's as clueless as you are.

Neither of you have any answers.

And Whaley sold the EJ pick to Nix. Everybody knows that.
and we did an astute thing in moving down in the draft to take EJ because if he did succeed he'd cost less in terms of the cap (and parlayed the picks to Kiki and then Shady) and all things considered EJ was the best QB in his draft class, so did Whaley fail in his judging talent or not? Whaley understands the Bills need a QB, hence his QB purgatory comments earlier. Yet he has also put in a spot where we can continually cycle QBs until we find one unlike other organizations that are tied to their QBs because of high contracts (see Chicago and Cutler and Houston with Osweiler). We can let Tyrod walk this offseason and bring in another QB or two in an effort to find the answer and keep most of the team together. All things considered Whaley could have messed this up far worse than he did in overpaying both in draft picks and salary for a potential veteran. Yes, we still lack a quality QB but not in cap jail which we saw happen after Butler was here in the RJ/Flutie years.

[Arm of Harm]

and we did an astute thing in moving down in the draft to take EJ because if he did succeed he'd cost less in terms of the cap (and parlayed the picks to Kiki and then Shady) and all things considered EJ was the best QB in his draft class, so did Whaley fail in his judging talent or not? Whaley understands the Bills need a QB, hence his QB purgatory comments earlier. Yet he has also put in a spot where we can continually cycle QBs until we find one unlike other organizations that are tied to their QBs because of high contracts (see Chicago and Cutler and Houston with Osweiler). We can let Tyrod walk this offseason and bring in another QB or two in an effort to find the answer and keep most of the team together. All things considered Whaley could have messed this up far worse than he did in overpaying both in draft picks and salary for a potential veteran. Yes, we still lack a quality QB but not in cap jail which we saw happen after Butler was here in the RJ/Flutie years.


EJ Manuel has 16 career starts, compared to 17 for Mike Glennon. Both QBs have a career average of 6.5 yards per attempt. Glennon has thrown for 4100 career passing yards, compared to 3400 for Manuel. Both QBs were starters as rookies, and were relegated to backup status partway through their second years. Manuel's QB rating is 78.4; compared to 84.6 for Glennon. The Tampa Bay Bucs achieved the same or better than Manuel, in the same draft as Manuel, and only had to use a third round pick. Because Glennon was only a third rounder, the Bucs didn't go "all in" on him. In 2015 the Bucs used the first overall pick on Jameis Winston. 2015 was also the year Whaley passed up the opportunity to draft Trevor Siemian. In 2014 Whaley chose to pass up Derek Carr.

The main problem with Manuel was not the fact that we squandered our first round pick. (Although that certainly didn't help us!) No. The main problem was that E.J. Manuel was "the plan," the reason Whaley felt the Bills were "all set" at the QB position. Had Manuel not been drafted, the Bills would have been far more likely to have been interested in QBs like Derek Carr. Or at least, that's what would have happened, if we'd had a competent GM who was more interested in a QB's accuracy and information processing speed than in his physical gifts.

[cookie G]

Ok, then exactly what DID Doug Whaley see as the answer?

The fact is, he's as clueless as you are.

Neither of you have any answers.

And Whaley sold the EJ pick to Nix. Everybody knows that.

He might have...but Buddy put the team in that situation. He took over a team without a QB and went 3 years without acquiring one. So for the 2013 draft, the Bills were without a QB, even Fitz. Because he was too busy changing the defense back to a 3-4 and trying to recreate the mid 90's Chargers' D.

And it was a bad year for QBs, and every one knew it. But we had no one.

That doesn't excuse the post 2013 failure to bring someone in. But 2013...and before...look to Bumbling Buddy, my pick for the most disappointing GM in recent history.

[coastal]

Awkward sweater vest wearer that he was...

[Albany,n.y.]

I want no part of firing Rex Ryan & then hiring his protégé. If you fire Rex, hire someone who isn't part of the Rex coaching tree. Hiring Lynn is just about as bad as keeping Rex.

[cookie G]

Awkward sweater vest wearer that he was...

the longest pregnancy in history.

[WagonCircler]

He might have...but Buddy put the team in that situation. He took over a team without a QB and went 3 years without acquiring one. So for the 2013 draft, the Bills were without a QB, even Fitz. Because he was too busy changing the defense back to a 3-4 and trying to recreate the mid 90's Chargers' D.

And it was a bad year for QBs, and every one knew it. But we had no one.

That doesn't excuse the post 2013 failure to bring someone in. But 2013...and before...look to Bumbling Buddy, my pick for the most disappointing GM in recent history.

Between waiting WAAAYYYY too long to bring another QB in, and the whole Sammy Watkins fiasco ("to help EJ"), it is laughable to deny that Whaley took ownership of the EJ pick.

[cookie G]

Between waiting WAAAYYYY too long to bring another QB in, and the whole Sammy Watkins fiasco ("to help EJ"), it is laughable to deny that Whaley took ownership of the EJ pick.

I agree there. Not the "EJ pick" portion, but the post EJ pick portion. No one from the 2013 class did anything.

There are those who say you don't draft a QB after you've already picked one in the 1st, I just don't agree with that.

At one time, when you had to give your rookie QB a $60 million contract maybe, but not under the present rookie cap.

-not considering the importance of the position;
-not considering the failure rate of NFL qbs;
-not considering that the guy you drafted previously is a question mark;
-not considering that in many years, like 2013, (and possibly 2017), none of the class ends up making it;
-not considering that even the best talent eyes are wrong at times; (e.g Ozzie Newsome once thought Jamarcus Russell was one of the best prospects he'd ever seen).

In the 2014 draft, both Derek Carr and Garrapolo were available.

We can afford to lose a few defensive backs if it means obtaining a franchise QB.

[SpikedLemonade]

The Dumb Polack (DP) needs to get his ******ed hands directly off this team.

He needs to go back to playing Asian Rub and Tug with Kim.

DP needs to hire a high level experienced NFL executive who will report to DP only.

This Chief Executive of Football Operations needs to hire his own GM and allow the GM to hire the new HC.

Enough Org Chart dysfunctionality.

The DP made his money on fracking and he now thinks he and his wife can successfully run a people based business like a NFL team with no personal experience?

[Mouldsie]

Between waiting WAAAYYYY too long to bring another QB in, and the whole Sammy Watkins fiasco ("to help EJ"), it is laughable to deny that Whaley took ownership of the EJ pick.

Whaley had a major hand in EJ for certain.... what I found interesting is hearing from a reliable source who knows of some of the inner workings of that FO was that Russ Brandon was behind the Sammy trade. That's a fireable offense IMO

[WagonCircler]

He might have...but Buddy put the team in that situation. He took over a team without a QB and went 3 years without acquiring one. So for the 2013 draft, the Bills were without a QB, even Fitz. Because he was too busy changing the defense back to a 3-4 and trying to recreate the mid 90's Chargers' D.

And it was a bad year for QBs, and every one knew it. But we had no one.

That doesn't excuse the post 2013 failure to bring someone in. But 2013...and before...look to Bumbling Buddy, my pick for the most disappointing GM in recent history.

Doug Whaley's entire career here has been one big list of excuses.

He is the football version of Darcy Regeir.

[WagonCircler]

Whaley had a major hand in EJ for certain.... what I found interesting is hearing from a reliable source who knows of some of the inner workings of that FO was that Russ Brandon was behind the Sammy trade. That's a fireable offense IMO

Firing? How about felony prosecution?

If this is true, this team is fuct forever.

[Mouldsie]

Firing? How about felony prosecution?

If this is true, this team is fuct forever.

Was a way to make a big splash while the team was for sale to encourage buyers. Whaley had Sammy #1 on his board and Russ said let's get the #1 guy

[swiper]

Terry Pegula is the only problem here folks. And it's all him until it's not.

Sorry you want to pin it on the QB, marketing guy, GM, coach,Mario Williams.... It's none of them.

Blame lays with the owner. Period.

[WagonCircler]

Was a way to make a big splash while the team was for sale to encourage buyers. Whaley had Sammy #1 on his board and Russ said let's get the #1 guy

That might me the worst football thing I've ever heard. Ever.

That being said, as horrendous as Brandon's actions were (if the story is true), the fact that Sammy was #1 on Whaley's board is not a good look for him. And it's yet another excuse.

[Mouldsie]

That might me the worst football thing I've ever heard. Ever.

That being said, as horrendous as Brandon's actions were (if the story is true), the fact that Sammy was #1 on Whaley's board is not a good look for him. And it's yet another excuse.

I prayed so hard it would be Khalil Mack. At least you can make a case for the trade if it's for a stud DE.
Otherwise um, anyone hear of Odell Beckham Jr? Allen Robinson? Mike Evans? All tremendous options if you stay put!

[The Jokeman]

He might have...but Buddy put the team in that situation. He took over a team without a QB and went 3 years without acquiring one. So for the 2013 draft, the Bills were without a QB, even Fitz. Because he was too busy changing the defense back to a 3-4 and trying to recreate the mid 90's Chargers' D.

And it was a bad year for QBs, and every one knew it. But we had no one.

That doesn't excuse the post 2013 failure to bring someone in. But 2013...and before...look to Bumbling Buddy, my pick for the most disappointing GM in recent history.
As bad as Buddy was I think Marv was a far worse GM.

[swiper]

Doug Whaley's entire career here has been one big list of excuses.

He is the football version of Darcy Regeir.

Not for nothing, but I've said this here before.

Certainly seems to be a good comparison.

[The Jokeman]

Not for nothing, but I've said this here before.

Certainly seems to be a good comparison.

I think Whaley is more of a GMTM than a Regier. As Darcy was hampered in making trades where Whaley and GMTM seem to have little issues making trades if they feel it's going to improve the talent on the field/ice.

[swiper]

As bad as Buddy was I think Marv was a far worse GM.

We've had a string of bad ones since Butler left town.

- - - Updated - - -


As bad as Buddy was I think Marv was a far worse GM.

We've had a string of bad ones since Butler left town.

[swiper]

I think Whaley is more of a GMTM than a Regier. As Darcy was hampered in making trades where Whaley and GMTM seem to have little issues making trades if they feel it's going to improve the talent on the field/ice.

You're wrong there. GMTM has improved the team. Whaley hasn't. Therefore he = Regier.

Furthermore Regier had the same rope that TM has when Pegula came in.

[WagonCircler]

You're wrong there. GMTM has improved the team. Whaley hasn't. Therefore he = Regier.

Furthermore Regier had the same rope that TM has when Pegula came in.

Actually, Whaley was given more. Read Gleason's latest column, he makes this same point:

Ryan deserves his share of the blame. So does Doug Whaley. So does Russ Brandon. It has been said repeatedly in recent months, and now let me repeat this: The Pegulas don’t know where they’re going or how to get there. They're left to depend on Whaley and Brandon, which hasn't exactly worked.

Kim Pegula has suggested she would rather work with people she likes on a personal level. Darcy Regier is a nice man. Brandon is a good guy. Whaley is pleasant enough. I could see why ownership personally likes each of them and why Rex won them over. That approach might work in the real world, but it’s different in sports.

Professional sports can be cold and unsentimental. Sometimes, you need to keep people who you dislike. You also might need to dismiss others who are fine at dinner parties but ineffective in their jobs. It makes for tough decisions. Sometimes, feelings get hurt. Winning always comes first.

Well, it should, anyway.

Their decision to retain Whaley looks eerily similar to how they handled the Sabres and kept the faith in Regier.

He was given an open checkbook, if you remember. It took the Pegulas years to figure out what most already understood: He no longer was suited for the job. By the time they realized the organization was in ruins, they came up with a master plan that called for the Sabres losing as a path to success.

Whaley had more money for personnel after the Pegulas took over. Last January, he was further empowered with a contract extension on the advice of his buddy, Brandon. Brandon was granted custody over the Bills and Sabres, which gave him and Whaley even more leverage.

None of this is a secret around the league. People talk. Word gets around about their hiring practices. It makes for a tough sell when you’re looking for a new coach. Doug Marrone walked away because they gave him $4 million, yes, but he also left because he didn’t believe he could succeed so long as Whaley remained.

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/14/bucky-gleason-bills-make-ryan-decision-official/